EV Digest 2544
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by Ken Lange <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Anyone heard of this person?
by "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Compression Connectors?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EV talk
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery Internal resistance
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery Internal resistance
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) PV to EV
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) PG&E Bill
by Lisa Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Looking for EV-[ref http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/34837How
fast: 55mphHow far: 50 miles @ 55mphHow many passengers: at least 3How will charge:
at home & work, 110 or 220 VACHow much: $8000Prefer: converted VW vans, room for the
family & dogs]-James,I assume you are not seeking to buy a working EV just topour more
work and money into upgrading it to your needs.Your price range limits you from
thinking ofnon-lead-acid batteries (and its compatable charger).From your POST I
answered the basic questions (above) to know what your EV driving needs are. You state
that youhave looked at the ads, but POST here asking if there isan EV available. The
ads must not of let you know which EV would fit your needs.In looking at the ads, I
see a couple of the many that couldwork for
youhttp://www.tidepool.com/~ecar/list.htmlhttp://www.he.net/~sleavitt/evpics.htmlI
think a sedan is a better choice than a van (wind pusher).The mass and wind resistance
will eat you!
r lead-acid batteryrange. One local EV driver loved her vanagon conversion.
Hercommute was short (20 miles) and was the neighborhoodkid-mobile to deliever and
pick up the kids from school.Your new commute when you move into your new house is
whatwill push your range limit. Production EVs are not availablein you area, so
conversion EVs are all you can buy. Theconversions available that fit your needs are
fewer, yourrange needs put you at the edge of being able to use aconversion EV (or
having to decide to suffer with an ICE).The conversions that fit your needs will 'have
to' chargeat work (yu will arrive empty), so that 'has to be secured'.Also, a 120 VAC
20 amp outlet will likely take 12 hours to recharge your EV. While that is fine for
when at home andovernight, I assume you need to be recharged in a 8 hour work day. You
will need to have a 220 VAC charger on board and secure 220 VAC compatable charging at
work.If you stayed in your current home (short commute distance)mos!
t of the EVs would work for you.When you consider an EV for sale, beca
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Looking for EV
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) E-Meter/Link10 question
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: PG&E Bill
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: E-Meter/Link10 question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: EVLN(ZAP car: 240 miles on a single charge at 70 mph)
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: PG&E Bill
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: E-Meter/Link10 question
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EVLN(ZAP car: 240 miles on a single charge at 70 mph)
by "a.k. howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: GM can't afford EVs?
by "a.k. howard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) dynamic battery information
by Joseph Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVLN(ZAP car: 240 miles on a single charge at 70 mph)
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV talk/lawn mowers
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) GM hybrids: too little, too late, what for?
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
This sounds like an extensive system. It looks like a perfect setup to
try different charging algorithms over a period of time with adjacent batteries
to get a believable comparison.
What do you use for the front end to feed the Batmods? Are they individual
modules?
Ken Lange
My image of Lee is changing. I've always pictured an analog and lightbulb
kind of guy. Now we're talking microcomputers and network control!
Lee Hart wrote:
Each one has a Vicor Batmod as its power section, controlled by a Vesta
Technologies SBC2000-062 microcomputer. Once you add it all up, each one
has about $200 in materials. They are all networked together, so they
can be controlled by a central computer running Linux. There is also a
large central charger for fast bulk charging.
The BatChargers can operate autonomously, or under control of the
network. Each BatCharger reports back its individual battery voltage and
current, battery temperature, and charger temperature. The BatChargers
work both for charging when there is AC power, and when driving (powered
off the pack as a whole) to balance batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hastings wrote:
> The ones I am talking about can be seen at:
> http://www.texasbattery.com/Cables_Terminals.htm
> They are under the title quick compression connector.
from Lee Hart:
>> Yes, they work. The main problem with any type of screw pressure type
>> terminal is that water and acid can get into them over time and cause
>> corrosion and bad connections.
Yep, that's the kind I was thinking of. Use plenty of contact grease or
vaseline when assembling to keep water out, and check the actual contact
resistance (voltage drop at some constant current, or the "finger test
to see if they get hot).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> When I had my Comuta-Car, I bought two 4-cell plastic flashlight
> cell holders from an electronic parts store. I wired them to a
> hunk of zip cord, filled 'em up, tied the free end of the zip cord
> to something under the dash of the car, and chucked them on the
> shelf under the dash (the one that used to hold a charger in the
> old Citicars).
>
> When someone asked the inevitable question, "Does it ^really^ run on
> batteries?" I'd pull out the battery holders and show him. Some folks
> actually believed me. It's amazing how poor science education is these
> days.
Great story, David! Here's one of mine.
My ComutaVan didn't come with keys for the doors, so I couldn't lock it.
As a temporary expedient, I just put a sign on it from the electrical
equipment store that said "Danger -- High Voltage". There were also 3"
high letters on it that said "Electric Car".
It worked too well. People would see those signs, and detour well away
from my car. I didn't have to worry much about people parking next to
me. They wouldn't even step in a mud puddle that my car was sitting in.
I once saw a lady who parked next to me get in the passenger side of her
car (away from mine) and climb over the center console to get into her
driver's seat to drive away.
Of course, it was a ComutaVan, which look pretty odd anyway. :-)
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> so when you get into you car and see 130v then take off and pull a
> steady 100amps vloltage drops to 120 10/100 =.1 ohm?
Yes; that's right.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sunday, January 19, 2003, at 01:25 AM, 1sclunn wrote:
so when you get into you car and see 130v then take off and pull a
steady
100amps vloltage drops to 120 10/100 =.1 ohm ??
I believe that's the basic idea, but you probably wouldn't want to do
it right off the charger (130 volts on a 120v system), but rather would
want to wait a bit so the resting voltage would be more stable.
Seth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Battery Internal resistance
hi all -
I thought about this once and you can tell me I'm wrong, but here's
how I'd go about it: assume that your battery is an ideal battery, ie
no voltage sag under load. now also assume that your ideal battery is
in series with a resistor of unknown value - the ideal battery plus
resistor is your actual battery. Now measure your voltage across the
whole thing with no load, then put say a 100 amp load on your battery
and measure the voltage. Do this for a few different currents. now
if
you pretend that your ideal battery didn't loose any voltage under
load, then the voltage drop for each current must have been in the
resistor (the battery's internal resistance). now you have a current
through and a voltage across this internal resistor, so resistance is
easy to calculate using Ohm's law. Hope this helps,
Seth
On Saturday, January 18, 2003, at 08:35 AM, Gordon Niessen wrote:
How do you go about measuring the internal resistance of a battery?
I
don't think it's good to hook up you Ohm Meter across a battery. :-)
Or to short the battery and measure the max Amperage.
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Lange wrote:
> This sounds like an extensive system. It looks like a perfect setup
> to try different charging algorithms over a period of time with
> adjacent batteries to get a believable comparison.
That's exactly why it's so complex. No production vehicle needs anything
this complicated. But, we need it to gather the data to tell what really
*is* needed for production!
> What do you use for the front end to feed the Batmods? Are they
> individual modules?
Right now, it is basically a "bad boy" charger; 240vac into a buck/boost
transformer, bridge rectifier, and into the controller's filter
capacitors. PS: There is no danger of a vehicle runaway because we have
contactors totally isolating the motors from the controller.
Next step is a PFC front end to go between the bridge and capacitors.
The plan is that this will be modular in 1kw increments, to suit the AC
receptacle capability and the buyer's wallet.
Longer term, the individual chargers will each be PFC on their own, so
they will connect directly to rectified AC. For really high power
charging, there will be a parallel 'bad boy' charger, but the individual
PFC modular chargers will correct for its power factor, too (i.e. the
sum of the bad boy plus the modular chargers equals a 1.0 power factor).
> My image of Lee is changing. I've always pictured an analog and
> lightbulb kind of guy. Now we're talking microcomputers and network
> control!
I have always subscribed to the "Dr. Dobbs" school of design -- Running
light without overbyte. Or as Einstein said, strive for the simplest
possible solution -- and no simpler!
Technology just for its own sake is a mistake. If a light bulb does the
job, forget the exotic high-tech current source; it will just add cost
and lower reliability for no real purpose. And, it takes extra time to
implement and perfect, which takes away from other things.
In this case, the technology *was* necessary to do the job. So I used
it!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'll admit it.
Installed the PV two years ago-
Bought first EV last October.
Bought second EV last November.
Coincidence? I think not.
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City
on 1/19/03 8:34 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>> Perhaps EV drivers should encourage city PV programs
>> in their
>> area. This will lead to more EV drivers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Everyone,
We have a time of use meter. PG&E is suppossed to
bill us accordingly on the E-9 rate. They still have
us as a E 1 residential rate schedule.
Has anyone else had this problem? Who is a good
person to contact at PG&E?
Thanks,
Lisa
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-
[ref
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/34837
How fast: 55mph
How far: 50 miles @ 55mph
How many passengers: at least 3
How will charge: at home & work, 110 or 220 VAC
How much: $8000
Prefer: converted VW vans, room for the family & dogs]
-
James,
I assume you are not seeking to buy a working EV just to
pour more work and money into upgrading it to your needs.
Your price range limits you from thinking of
non-lead-acid batteries (and its compatable charger).
>From your POST I answered the basic questions (above) to
know what your EV driving needs are. You state that you
have looked at the ads, but POST here asking if there is
an EV available. The ads must not of let you know which
EV would fit your needs.
In looking at the ads, I see a couple of the many that could
work for you
http://www.tidepool.com/~ecar/list.html
http://www.he.net/~sleavitt/evpics.html
I think a sedan is a better choice than a van (wind pusher).
The mass and wind resistance will eat your lead-acid battery
range. One local EV driver loved her vanagon conversion. Her
commute was short (20 miles) and was the neighborhood
kid-mobile to deliever and pick up the kids from school.
Your new commute when you move into your new house is what
will push your range limit. Production EVs are not available
in you area, so conversion EVs are all you can buy. The
conversions available that fit your needs are fewer, your
range needs put you at the edge of being able to use a
conversion EV (or having to decide to suffer with an ICE).
The conversions that fit your needs will 'have to' charge
at work (yu will arrive empty), so that 'has to be secured'.
Also, a 120 VAC 20 amp outlet will likely take 12 hours to
recharge your EV. While that is fine for when at home and
overnight, I assume you need to be recharged in a 8 hour
work day. You will need to have a 220 VAC charger on board
and secure 220 VAC compatable charging at work.
If you stayed in your current home (short commute distance)
most of the EVs would work for you.
When you consider an EV for sale, because you are a newbie,
I would not look at the 'dead cars'. Same as only experienced
gas car people would consider a dead engined car, I would
not have you look at an EV you can not drive.
Some say the pack will need replacing. You will need to add
the price of a replacement battery pack to your total cost.
You will need to know your local battery source (US battery,
Trojan, etc.) for a large quanity buy (much cheaper than buying
them one at a time, and they arrive at your house on a pallet
for a weekend battery change).
If a 96 V T108 pack is what the EV ads says will need replacing,
then you will need to get the price of (96V / 6V) 16 batteries
that are compatable with a Trojan T108 (US Battery, Exide, etc.)
Batteries are easy to replace, all you need as cresent wrench and
a screw driver. Arrange to have your batteries on hand before you
pull, map your batteries for orientaion (which way they sit), number
and label the cables (so they go back the way they came off), kill
the power (unplug and pull the kill switch), clean the tops of the
batteries with a mild window cleaner (windex type - is a mild base
to neutralize the mild acid on the batteries), take the cables off,
pull the batteries out, clean the battery racks/boxes with the
cleaner, and clean the cables with alcohol. (Save your back: next
day)
put the new batteries in, cable the batteries up, and if the
pack voltage is correct, then charge the pack. Once the pack is
charged, disconnect AC power, and add distilled water to your
batteries (don't go cheap on water, it will kill your new pack.),
clean the tops of your pack with the cleaner, and run your EV only
for short trips, building up to your full range (10 miles, recharge,
15 miles, recharge, etc - this breaks in your new pack).
James for local EV help, there are two EAA chapters near you:
COASTAL CAROLINAS EAA
Contact: Jayne Howard 910-457-4383 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mailing: 4805 E. Southport Supply Rd., Hwy 211, Southport, NC
28461-8741 USA
Meetings: call for details.
Location: 4805 E. Southport Supply Rd.,Hwy 211, Southport, NC
TRIANGLE EAA
Web Site: http://rtpnet.org/teaa
Contact: Ken Dulaney 919-461-1241 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mailing: 202 Whitehall Way, Cary, NC 27511-4825, USA
Meetings: 3rd Tues./month, 5:30 pm
Location: Varies, call for details.
All EAA chapter meetings are free and open to the public.
...
I noticed that most of the EVs ads do not answer the basic
questions. This points out that many EV newbies will have
problems knowing what EV fits their needs. These pages
should work to have the following stated in each ad:
-range miles @ 55mph, top speed mph
-seating and cargo capacity
-charger model, recharge time at 220 VAC and at 120 VAC
-pack voltage, battery model, controller model, motor model
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-
[ref
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/34837
How fast: 55mph
How far: 50 miles @ 55mph
How many passengers: at least 3
How will charge: at home & work, 110 or 220 VAC
How much: $8000
Prefer: converted VW vans, room for the family & dogs]
-
James,
I assume you are not seeking to buy a working EV just to
pour more work and money into upgrading it to your needs.
Your price range limits you from thinking of
non-lead-acid batteries (and its compatable charger).
>From your POST I answered the basic questions (above) to
know what your EV driving needs are. You state that you
have looked at the ads, but POST here asking if there is
an EV available. The ads must not of let you know which
EV would fit your needs.
In looking at the ads, I see a couple of the many that could
work for you
http://www.tidepool.com/~ecar/list.html
http://www.he.net/~sleavitt/evpics.html
I think a sedan is a better choice than a van (wind pusher).
The mass and wind resistance will eat your lead-acid battery
range. One local EV driver loved her vanagon conversion. Her
commute was short (20 miles) and was the neighborhood
kid-mobile to deliever and pick up the kids from school.
Your new commute when you move into your new house is what
will push your range limit. Production EVs are not available
in you area, so conversion EVs are all you can buy. The
conversions available that fit your needs are fewer, your
range needs put you at the edge of being able to use a
conversion EV (or having to decide to suffer with an ICE).
The conversions that fit your needs will 'have to' charge
at work (yu will arrive empty), so that 'has to be secured'.
Also, a 120 VAC 20 amp outlet will likely take 12 hours to
recharge your EV. While that is fine for when at home and
overnight, I assume you need to be recharged in a 8 hour
work day. You will need to have a 220 VAC charger on board
and secure 220 VAC compatable charging at work.
If you stayed in your current home (short commute distance)
most of the EVs would work for you.
When you consider an EV for sale, because you are a newbie,
I would not look at the 'dead cars'. Same as only experienced
gas car people would consider a dead engined car, I would
not have you look at an EV you can not drive.
Some say the pack will need replacing. You will need to add
the price of a replacement battery pack to your total cost.
You will need to know your local battery source (US battery,
Trojan, etc.) for a large quanity buy (much cheaper than buying
them one at a time, and they arrive at your house on a pallet
for a weekend battery change).
If a 96 V T108 pack is what the EV ads says will need replacing,
then you will need to get the price of (96V / 6V) 16 batteries
that are compatable with a Trojan T108 (US Battery, Exide, etc.)
Batteries are easy to replace, all you need as cresent wrench and
a screw driver. Arrange to have your batteries on hand before you
pull, map your batteries for orientaion (which way they sit), number
and label the cables (so they go back the way they came off), kill
the power (unplug and pull the kill switch), clean the tops of the
batteries with a mild window cleaner (windex type - is a mild base
to neutralize the mild acid on the batteries), take the cables off,
pull the batteries out, clean the battery racks/boxes with the
cleaner, and clean the cables with alcohol. (Save your back: next
day)
put the new batteries in, cable the batteries up, and if the
pack voltage is correct, then charge the pack. Once the pack is
charged, disconnect AC power, and add distilled water to your
batteries (don't go cheap on water, it will kill your new pack.),
clean the tops of your pack with the cleaner, and run your EV only
for short trips, building up to your full range (10 miles, recharge,
15 miles, recharge, etc - this breaks in your new pack).
James for local EV help, there are two EAA chapters near you:
COASTAL CAROLINAS EAA
Contact: Jayne Howard 910-457-4383 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mailing: 4805 E. Southport Supply Rd., Hwy 211, Southport, NC
28461-8741 USA
Meetings: call for details.
Location: 4805 E. Southport Supply Rd.,Hwy 211, Southport, NC
TRIANGLE EAA
Web Site: http://rtpnet.org/teaa
Contact: Ken Dulaney 919-461-1241 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mailing: 202 Whitehall Way, Cary, NC 27511-4825, USA
Meetings: 3rd Tues./month, 5:30 pm
Location: Varies, call for details.
All EAA chapter meetings are free and open to the public.
...
I noticed that most of the EVs ads do not answer the basic
questions. This points out that many EV newbies will have
problems knowing what EV fits their needs. These pages
should work to have the following stated in each ad:
-range miles @ 55mph, top speed mph
-seating and cargo capacity
-charger model, recharge time at 220 VAC and at 120 VAC
-pack voltage, battery model, controller model, motor model
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can a 500-Amp version of the E-meter be used in a system with a
higher-current controller? Does the rating (500 Amp v. 1000 Amp) merely
reflect the displayable current, or does it only comprehend 500 Amps and
no more?
The two versions are offered with different shunts, but the mV/Amp looks
the same. The 1000 A version appears to have more mass and surface area,
so might be more stable thermally (I can work around that easily
enough).
- GT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who is PG&E? I'm guessing an electric company. Have you tried calling
billing? Or better yet walk in and talk to them, don't leave until they
fix it.
On Sun, 2003-01-19 at 13:10, Lisa Jones wrote:
> Hello Everyone,
> We have a time of use meter. PG&E is suppossed to
> bill us accordingly on the E-9 rate. They still have
> us as a E 1 residential rate schedule.
> Has anyone else had this problem? Who is a good
> person to contact at PG&E?
> Thanks,
> Lisa
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
George Tylinski wrote:
> Can a 500-Amp version of the E-meter be used in a system with a
> higher-current controller? Does the rating (500 Amp v. 1000 Amp)
> merely reflect the displayable current, or does it only comprehend
> 500 Amps and no more?
The circuitry in the standard 500-amp and optional 1000-amp E-meters is
the same. All they do is change the software so it will display and do
its calculation for currents up to 1024 amps instead of 512 amps.
They provide a physically larger shunt, but it is still a 500amp 50mv
shunt. Since a shunt is just a resistor, the bigger one has a higher
wattage rating, as it needs to be at 1000 amps.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I called ZAP and they said they still had to go through the approval stage.
This vehicle might be a while getting here. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
PG&E: Pacific Gas and Electric - provides natural gas and
electric service to customers in northern and central
California http://pge.com
Not to be confused with PGE:
Portland General Electric - providing electricity and related
services to customers in Portland and northwest Oregon.
www.portlandgeneral.com
In Northern CA:
Sacramento Municipal Utility District (SMUD) - nation's fifth
largest customer-owned electric utility, serving approximately
1.1 million people in its 900-square mile service area.
http://smud.org
Time of use rate: http://smud.org/info/rates_rules_reg
Sierra Pacific handles NE CA http://sierrapacific.com
In Southern CA:
Southern California Edison Corporation http://sce.com
Department of Water and Power, City of Los Angeles
http://ladwp.com
San Diego Gas & Electric Company - information for
customers and shareholders, such as energy saving hints,
safety tips http://sdge.com
For a complete listing of all utilities:
http://www.csd.ca.gov/utilities.html
For a comparison of rates see:
http://www.smud.org/info/rates_rules_reg/res_comparison.html
Roseville, then SMUD have the lowest rates.
...
PG&E is a california utility that has the lion's share
of the territory.
I have heard from those trying to get PG&E to hold up
their end of the EV time of use, E9 program is difficult.
A search of their site for E9 gives:
http://search.pge.com/query.html?qt=e9&x=15&y=11
Even before PG&E played games by moving their money around
and then declaring bankruptcy, it was hard to hold their
the fire.
Persistance may get you a resolve. This is why some
communities do not fool around with the large utilies.
Palo Alto is one of the communities that handles their own
Electricity. Which may also be why there are plenty of EVs
in Palo Alto.
I suppose your last restore is to submitt a report to
http://www.cpuc.ca.gov
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
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On Monday, January 20, 2003, at 12:14 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
George Tylinski wrote:
Can a 500-Amp version of the E-meter be used in a system with a
higher-current controller? Does the rating (500 Amp v. 1000 Amp)
merely reflect the displayable current, or does it only comprehend
500 Amps and no more?
The circuitry in the standard 500-amp and optional 1000-amp E-meters is
the same. All they do is change the software so it will display and do
its calculation for currents up to 1024 amps instead of 512 amps.
They provide a physically larger shunt, but it is still a 500amp 50mv
shunt. Since a shunt is just a resistor, the bigger one has a higher
wattage rating, as it needs to be at 1000 amps.
so does this mean that the 1000 amp Emeter is now seeing not 50mV but
100mV from the shunt at full current? If I were to use a 1000 amp,
50mV shunt, my amp readings would be off by a factor of 2? Thanks
Seth
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
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From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: EVLN(ZAP car: 240 miles on a single charge at 70 mph)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 22:00:26 -0800 (PST)
EVLN(ZAP car: 240 miles on a single charge at 70 mph)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=1088591&nav=23iiDQmJ
New Electric Car Turning Heads at Electronic Shows
You've probably heard the news that a gallon of gas could
soon cost you two dollars. A San Francisco company has an
alternative, drive without any gas and still get around in
style.
---------------------
It was unveiled at this year's consumer electronics show in
Las Vegas.
The new Zap car...completely electric. The company that
makes it says it's the vehicle to drive us to a more energy
efficient future. Zap is a San Francisco company with an
eye on the environment. Its name stands for 'zero air
pollution.' According to the company, its new battery lets
you go anywhere at a decent speed for about a penny per
mile. "In a vehicle like (the Zap car), the car can go 240
miles on a single charge, at 70 miles per hour," says Zap
CEO Steve Schneider.
That's a lot less expensive than what you're driving now,
and if you have about 10,000 dollars, and a plug, you can
own a Zap. "You plug into any simple wall outlet, and
you're ready to go," says Schneider. "That's how you charge
it."
Electric cars may be all the rage one days, but the Zap car
is available today...and doesn't break the bank while
helping you break the gasoline habit.
Click here to visit the Zap Car website.
[ http://www.zapworld.com/new-cars.htm ]
===
240 miles at 70 mph on a charge? I'm thinking that would require about
100-200 kwh. I haven't seen a battery pack that can store that much charge.
I guess I'll believe it when I see it. But if for $10,000 they can sell me a
reliable car that can give me 50 niles of range, I think I can live with
that. Again my 8 cents per kwh here in my modest apartment. Regards, A.K.
Howard, in unincorporated Clark County, Nevada. Board Member Las Vegas
Electric Vehicle Association.
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From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GM can't afford EVs?
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 23:52:22 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: David Roden (Akron OH USA) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 5:52 PM
Subject: GM can't afford EVs?
> The news today is that GM posted record profits last quarter. I guess
that
> must be the reason they can't afford to continue the EV1 project.
>
> David Roden
> Akron OH USA
>
Rite Dave! They could GIVE the EV-1's away, and still have a healthy
bottom line! But they could sell them at cost, and score a publicity hit,
especially with more conservative people. If I had their money, I would. If
they would build EV's as well as their Electro Motive Div. builds
locomotives, but they can and DID, they won't let you have one!
Seeya
Bob.............Many "Lectromotive happy miles down the trak.
Yes I agree. And GM is oil based to the core. And on the EMD website,
they don't sell a pure electric locomotive either. Regards, A. K. Howard,
Las Vegas, NV.
p.s. at least we will have an electric monorail here in early 2004.
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I am trying to confirm that one of my batteries is pulling down the performance of the
(20) 6-volt US-125 pack in my voltsrabbit. My range has dropped dramatically in the
past month from about 40 miles / charge to around 23. I checked the specific gravity
and the specific gravity of all cells are greater than 1.265 when the pack is charged.
When I check individual battery voltages after returning from a 10 mile drive, one
battery (B6 in my pack) was lower than the other by 30 mv. I then turned on the
charger (9 amps charging current) and initially the battery remained lower by 30 mv to
the neighbors in the pack, then at completion of the charge cycle (144 volts, or 2.4
volts per cell) it read about average.
Upon return today, after 23 miles of driving the state of charge, I immediatly checked
the voltage of B6. It was very very low: 3.02 volts, all the others around it were
above 6 volts. So, it looks like B6 is going, or is gone.
In looking back over the records, about 6 weeks ago, I noticed that one of the caps in
B6 was loose, and it needed more water than the other batteries, so there is a reason
why this battery has been more abused than its neighbors. It probably dried out.
So, a couple of questions:
1) If B6 is bad, why is the specific gravity indicating a charged state after the
entire pack is charged?
2) Is there "debugging" information of the dv/dt sort to be gleaned by examining the
voltage change per unit time while charging (as opposed to discharging)? I don't have
leads going to each battery for measuring voltages while driving (yet, feel it
coming...). It is much easier to check these voltages when the car isn't going
anywhere!
3) Is there a benefit to a prolonged overcharge of the questionable battery (B6)
alone? I have an isolated 6 volt charger, and can "cook" B6 while adding water
frequently.
4) There are about 175 cycles on this pack. Have I just paid my dues, and need to
buy a new pack; or can I try replacing B6 alone?
Thanks a bunch,
Joe
"White Rabbit" `81 Rabbit Pickup
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/390.html
Joe Miller KI7WV
jmiller_at_eyes_dot_arizona_dot_edu
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> >The new Zap car...completely electric. The company that
> >makes it says it's the vehicle to drive us to a more energy
> >efficient future. Zap is a San Francisco company with an
> >eye on the environment. Its name stands for 'zero air
> >pollution.' According to the company, its new battery lets
> >you go anywhere at a decent speed for about a penny per
> >mile. "In a vehicle like (the Zap car), the car can go 240
> >miles on a single charge, at 70 miles per hour," says Zap
> >CEO Steve Schneider.
> >
> 240 miles at 70 mph on a charge? I'm thinking that would require about
> 100-200 kwh. I haven't seen a battery pack that can store that much charge.
If you read what they are claiming it only needs to hold about 20 kwh.
They are claiming only a penny a mile. That means 240 miles only costs
$2.40 in electricity. Assuming $0.10 per KWH, that works out to
something less than 24 kwh (charging losses).
Of course the real fun comes when you figure out that that means they
claim they can go 70 mph using about 100 watts of power FROM THE OUTLET
(pegs my BS meter)
Either that or they figure that everybody will be able to recharge at
$0.04 per kwh (yeah right) and are planning on storing 50 kwh onboard.
Either way they are playing fast and loose with the 'facts'.
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I have though about it quite a bit
I could fast charge it from my truck pack . I only need it to run 15/30
min per hour . I can plug my truck into 30% of my customers dryers outlets .
I have even considered using a ADC 6.7 motor that was for sale but now gone
. that and 3 yellow tops . I'll be replacing a 18 hp gas burner . 7kw ??
200 amp draw on the 3 YT this is off the top of my head . another way of
looking at it is I use a gallon/10 yards/3 hours = 3 yt charged 3 times or
500 lbs of lead .
now 36 v may not be enough to drive a adc 6.7
is there a number of KW hours that = gallon of gas ?
The reasons that I don't all sound like the reason that people have for not
converting there cars to electric or having somebody do it for them.
1 I don't have time .
2 I don't have money (for that!)
3 I can't afford to have something brake
4 it will be slower that what I have
5 I won't be doing this much longer.
I always think about this when talking to people that tell me "that's not
for me" . I'm just lucky that I can . The lawn mower would be a lot more
work that converting a gas car and the car would be a lot more fun. A EV car
would also do much more toward the EV/clean air/ect were the lawn mower
would not. Every EV conversion on the road shows people what can be done now
.
just like them
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, January 19, 2003 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: EV talk
> That's great, but why don't you also have an electric lawm mower ?
> You could always carry an extra battery pack for the mower or even an
> extra charger or recharge atleast once from the vehicle if its an
> emergency.
>
> On Sun, 19 Jan 2003 09:27:50 -0800 "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > My ford ranger has 3 bats in the front . When I'm gassing up the
> > lawn mower
> > which is on a trailer behind the truck and a crowd gathers round to
> > look
> > under the hood . I give my little EV speech and I if don't point out
> > the
> > bats under the bed of the truck somebody will always ask "and it
> > runs on
> > just 3 batteries?" This really is not to hard to understand as they
> > are
> > looking at something they've been told can't work in the first place
> > . There
> > minds are being opened and the brains just slip right out.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, January 17, 2003 10:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: EV talk
> >
> >
> > > On 17 Jan 2003 at 16:44, jon wrote:
> > >
> > > > "How many D cells does it take?"
> > >
> > > When I had my Comuta-Car, I bought two 4-cell plastic flashlight
> > cell
> > > holders from an electronic parts store. I wired them to a hunk of
> > zip
> > cord,
> > > filled 'em up, tied the free end of the zip cord to something
> > under the
> > dash
> > > of the car, and chucked them on the shelf under the dash (the one
> > that
> > used
> > > to hold a charger in the old Citicars).
> > >
> > > When someone asked the inevitable question, "Does it ^really^ run
> > on
> > > batteries?" I'd pull out the battery holders and show him. Some
> > folks
> > > actually believed me. It's amazing how poor science education is
> > these
> > > days.
> > >
> > >
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > = =
> > > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on
> > vacation, or
> > > switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > = =
> > > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > > 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> > > 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> > > 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> > > 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > = =
> > > Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this
> > to all
> > > thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite
> > thee.
> > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > = =
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
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>
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The Japanese have shown a viable hybrid design the industry
can use as a starting point. While we all would want
automakers offer a plug-in hybrids, the climate for
US automakers to make anything that does not run off fuel
is bad and is not going to happen.
So, lets focus on what USA automakers have said they will
do. Lets read an excerpt from an AP release:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1726492
-
GM will offer hybrid options on several vehicles, starting
later this year with the GMC Sierra and Chevrolet Silverado
pickups for use in commercial fleets. The hybrid versions of
the trucks will increase fuel economy by 10 to 12 percent,
the company says.
Those same trucks will be available to retail consumers in
2004. If demand is high for all hybrid models, GM says it
could produce a million or more a year by 2007. GM sold
nearly 4.8 million vehicles in 2002.
"We're taking a very pragmatic approach, targeting a wide
array of popular models with varying degrees of complexity
to give consumers a variety of choice," said GM president
and chief executive Rick Wagoner.
In 2005, GM will begin producing a hybrid Saturn VUE sport
utility. It will also include a hybrid option on its
forthcoming Chevy Equinox SUV in 2006 and its Chevy Malibu
sedan in 2007.
-
Japan has hybrids now, but GM is talking 2007. That's five
years the public has to wait for all this talk. This
smacks of another token effort to clean up their act.
Lets say the majority of new vehicle designs were hybrid and
were at best 15% better mpg. Since only the best selling
SUVs are targeted, a 14 mph SUV with a 15% increase in
mileage is 16 mpg.
That is not much improvement in mileage nor improvement in
air pollution reduction.
So US automakers are making SUV hybrids that will make
little mpg improvement, the public will have to wait to see
if automaker don't about-face on hybrids, and for what?
What will be happening while the hybrids are being
'developed'?
Continue to profit from current ICE designs:
business as usual.
Watt do you think of the US automaker's announced efforts to
clean up their act with 'fat-free fat' hybrid SUVs?
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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