EV Digest 2554
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Range, Battery Heaters, etc...
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Competition started (was Truck (im)possibility)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: 20 minute charge to 80%
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Mad as hell...
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 20 minute charge to 80%
by Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 20 minute charge to 80%
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Requesting NiZn Summary, an" Stuff
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Mobile solar power
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) OT Power company operations etc (was With Friends Like These. . .
)
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Tango battery thermal management (was: Aquarium Chillers)
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Two New Charging Locations in Thousand Oaks
by "Bruce Tucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: With Friends Like These. . .
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Truck (im)possibility
by Randy Holmquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: AC Drives (Sparrow?)
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 20 minute charge to 80%
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Truck (im)possibility
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 20 minute charge to 80%
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) How to price my EV for sale - plain text version
by "jlentz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) E-teks for Sparrows, Re: AC Drives (Sparrow?)
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Recovering YT's (was: AC Drives (Sparrow?))
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Truck (im)possibility
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Truck (im)possibility, Regen on ADCs.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: AC Drives (Sparrow?)
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: 20 minute charge to 80%
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: OT Power company operations etc (was With Friends Like These. .
. )
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Truck (im)possibility
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Requesting NiZn Summary, an" Stuff
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Ice Skating in Wonderland
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Evercell cycling report for cycle 149
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Keeping PbA topped off isn't the same as exercising. I have a set of
old/unused YTs right now in my Sparrow, and even though I did some load
testing before installing, I still have to exercise them and "break the in"
in order to get range and performance.
Start slowly, recharge completely and gradually increase. I hear most
batteries take 20-50 cycles to truely break in.
-Ed T
-----Original Message-----
From: John G. Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 5:17 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Range, Battery Heaters, etc...
Well, since I finally got the battery heaters in my Sparrow working
properly this last weekend, today I make a short run (1 mile), charged the
car again, and tried a longer run.
(Note: Batteries are holding at around 85 deg F when the car is parked)
Range sucks. Voltage plummeted abruptly at around 16 miles. At 17 miles I
was able to pull into Island Recycling and they let me plug in to charge
for a while. (I had 6 miles to go to get home.) I used to regularly go 27
miles.
Question: Since this pack has been sitting with little use for a couple of
months (always kept charged! Usually with a float charge as well.) Do I
need to run a set of break-in cycles again? Would this likely help restore
my range?
Or is this pack just shot?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>
> Cd is probably about 0.44, and roughly 35,665 Cm^2
> which comes out to 3.5665 m^2. That sound about right?
Probably. Regular sedans are about 2m^2.
> Truck is 76.3" high by 79.9" wide and has 8.1" ground clearance.
Last thing - any guess for a rolling resistance (with and without
trailer) of this 8 ton beast.
Do you have any performance numbers for single or dual DC motors?
Like time to 10 mph, 30 mph and 50 mph on flat, and max grade it
can handle on each gear (with/without trailer)?
So we have base line to compare to. I'll do simulation for double
string of 28 optimas, you come up with numbers for 14 optima
quadruplets (168V nom, better suitable for DC). Wh stored is equal.
Also let's do the range calc for say 50 mph unloaded and 40 mph
fully loaded. Fair? If you want other conditions, please specify.
I think list would benefit knowing results of both options.
Since mail limiting factor here is battery, the choice of the
system won't have as much impact as one could expect, but will see.
No more guesses.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where's the reference to fast charging (> 240vac, >6kwh)? Level 2 (which is
208-240vac, 4-6kwh) has been out for 6 years, but for production EVs this is
"standard" charging. Plugging into a regular wall outlet (110-120vac, 1kwh)
is trickle charging.
What we are really looking for, and have been waiting for, is the promised
Level 3 or above charging - 440vac and above. Like plugging directly into
the BART lines to juice up your EV.
-Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
From: Mason Convey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 12:48 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: Re: 20 minute charge to 80%
Fast-charging is still alive and well... but most of it is being done
at the industry level, rather than with on-road/public
applications. In other words, forklift, material handling, airport
ground support, NEV, marine, and transit applications. You may not
hear much about it, but it's out there. Example: www.etecevs.com
> This technology is 6 years old. What happened to it?
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/think_ev/message/1989
IMHO an interesting POST that shows an EV group that is
going to make a strong effort, and would not mind your
support.
Since the early days of making your own EV, and EV
conversions companies, many have wanted what we had:
EVs made by an automaker (production EVs).
I like my conversion. It was all there was in the 90's
when I looked to drive Electric. After driving it since
1992, I feel I have already gotten my money out it. But
there is still plenty life left in it and I plan to
continue enjoying it. EVs last a long time, if you don't
rip them away to the crushers.
In the early days, many of those that were not in a
position to build their own EV, and were not will to wait
for production EVs, bought an EV from a converter.
Not unlike being one of the first to buy and use PV panels
in an effort to show there is a market, people buying
and driving EVs were showing a market.
Automakers had no desire to make that niche market grow.
If it weren't for the CARB mandate, automakers would not
have changed.
But when after very long delay when automakers actually
made EVs available to the public, that collapsed the
conversion companies.
With the hope of the power of positive thinking, many were
pleased with the achievement of readily available production
EVs for the public. EVs that would be readily acceptable
to the public was here.
Now that the automakers have twisted-n-turned the whole
issue around, and dropped their EV production, there are
no production EVs for the public to buy.
Builders will still make EVs for the joy of it, and
hopefully more EV converters will start back up.
But when 'name-brand' automakers had EVs for the public,
that 'jump-started' the EV cause.
The EV1-Club though only made of leasees, migrated
to other production EVs as GM ripped their EV1 away,
just to have their new EV taken away as well.
RAV4 EV was the last hope, but Toyota has met their quota,
and is now gone. Those that bought their RAV4 EVs will work
to keep them on the road. A salute to RAV4 EVs is for all
production EVs that were on the road but have been crushed.
The EV cause is not dead, but definitely slowed. California
was the leader for change, as population density issues
are seen their first. As other states start to see the same
issues, they adopted similar California measures.
While few production EVs were made available to other states,
California had the lion's share, because of the CARB
mandate.
Support of the Production EV Drivers Coalition will
communicate to CARB that we need the mandate intact and
with teeth.
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
+ Where's the reference to fast charging (> 240vac, >6kwh)?
It's there, you just gotta browse long enough. Sure, some of the
chargers on that site are "only" 10kW or 15kW output. But you'll also
find that some are 25kW or 33kW. 100kW and 150kW units of the same
flavor are also around, but I don't think they're listed on that site
right now.
-~-~- mason s. convey -~-~-
website. http://www.1opossum.com
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
AOL Messenger. mtnbikeAZ
Yahoo! Messenger. mtnbike_az
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mason Convey wrote:
>
> + Where's the reference to fast charging (> 240vac, >6kwh)?
>
> It's there, you just gotta browse long enough. Sure, some of the
> chargers on that site are "only" 10kW or 15kW output. But you'll also
> find that some are 25kW or 33kW. 100kW and 150kW units of the same
> flavor are also around, but I don't think they're listed on that site
> right now.
Would 250 kW (450 amps) be fast enough? Rich?
http://www.aerovironment.com/area-pps/prod-serv/av-900.html
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 22:57, Bob Rice wrote:
> Had a guy , REALLY interested in EV's at the Car Parts Store I
> trade with, sed he had a Saturn, and asked if it would be a good
> choce, as he sed it had plastic body panels? Would be lite? Havent we
> got some Saturn Guyz on the List? Good Choice? Thinking of
> what-shall-I-convert, next, go round?
There are a couple Saturns here:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/index6.html
You could probably contact one of the owners with any questions.
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Shelton wrote:
> I need a portable solar array that can be installed in a rental house
> and removed with little or no damage/remodeling.
I've just emailed an article called "Renewables for renters" directly
to John. If anyone else wants to take a look, it's at
http://www.ata.org.au/73renting.pdf
The article is from an Australian magazine called ReNew which carries
articles similar to those in Home Power I believe.
--
Lesley Walker
Miss Information
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
--- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> When I lived back in Illinois my power company was experimenting with
> something that would solve this type of problem. Basically you got a
> lower rate but had to add special power control boxes to certain high
> drain appliances (like water heaters).
> The power company had control of these boxes (the consumer could
> override the power company, but they got fined if they did it
> too often) and could shut them down during periods of high demand.
Experimenting???? Gosh. We've had that system in my country for
decades. Literally. Some of those control boxes are probably older
than me, and I'm 40.
(Although, we also used to have centralised government-owned management
of our electricity infrastructure until some bright spark decided it
should be carved up and privatised, but that's another rant.)
I guess from a marketing point of view it would be an experiment to
introduce such a system where it hadn't been before. I suppose I'm
just really surprised to hear about it as a "new" thing.
--
Lesley Walker
WonderGeekWoman
Wellington, New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
--- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
What about the T-Zero system?
>Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 11:37:06 -0800
>From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>These particular chargers are prototypes, designed to be as versatile as
>possible for R&D purposes. To the best of my knowldege, this is the most
>sophisticated battery charging and management system ever put in an EV.
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are two brand new charging station in the Thousand Oaks, CA area. Both
of these charging stations just became operational within the last month.
1. The first is at the National Park Service (Santa Monica Mountain
Recreation Area) Visitor Center at 401 W Hillcrest Dr. (just north of, and
100' above, the Oaks Mall). There are two SPI Magnechargers and two
double-headded Avcon EVI-200 Chargers. There is a gate that can close off
the entrance, but they say they don't close it.
To get to chargers follow the brown signs to the Nation Park Service.
Take the Lynn Rd exit off the Ventura Fwy (101), turn east (right) onto
Hillcrest. Take the first left you can (second stoplight) onto McCloud Ave.
Go one short block to the Visitor Center driveway (A.K.A. Civic Center
Drive) and drive to the parking lot at the top of the hill. The charging
station is immediately to the right.
Thomas Guide grid: 526-E7
There is one parking stall for each of the SPIs, but there is a green
striped stall between the two you could squeeze another car into. Each Avcon
station is mounted between two stalls, and has two heads to service both.
There is a nice view, and you can visit the Visitor Center during business
hours, or walk down the hill to the Oaks Mall (maybe 1/2 mile total). Of
course, you have to walk back UP the hill afterwards.
2. The second location is the parking lot at "Satwiwa". It is located in
the Santa Monica Mountains Recreation Area - Rancho Sierra Vista-Satwiwa,
4122 W. Potrero Rd in the Dos Vientos area of Newbury Park.
There is one double headed Avcon charger (EVI-200) in front of the rest room
building in the parking lot.
To get to Satwiwa, Take the Lynn Road Exit off the northbound Ventura Fwy
(101) and turn left. Travel southwest 5.6 miles. Lynn Road will become
Potrero Road just before the park entrance (but you won't notice the
change). Turn south at the brown park entrance sign onto (the unmarked) Big
Sycamore Canyon Rd, and pass under a big entry arch. Follow the road for
about .8 miles until it ends at a (usually locked) gate. Turn left into the
parking lot.
>From southbound Ventura Fwy, take the Wendy Rd exit and follow Wendy for 4
miles until it intersects Lynn Rd, turn right (west), and follow Lynn Rd for
1.7 miles to the park entrance.
Thomas Guide grid: 555-D5
Satwiwa is at the head of the Big Sycamore Canyon, and the hiking trail
leads through the Santa Monica Mtns all the way down to the ocean at
Sycamore Cove Beach. There are also occasional events at the Satwiwa Native
American Indian Culture Center an easy 1/2 mile hike down the closed road.
Bruce Tucker,
Ventura Co. EAA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last night I made the 50 km trip out to the cottage to try to get
some work done on the conversion. It was -30C out and the wind
was about 20 km/h SE. My poor little Insight burned 5.2 l/100 km
compared to its average 4.0. When I got to the cottage I found
the pipes frozen, some blocked completely, some with just a
trickle. I cranked up the thermostat and stuck an electric
heater into the crawl space, burning natural gas and electricity
for several hours until the pipes all thawed. Say nothing of the
bathtub full of hot water that eventually got the bathtub drain
going again. Sigh, I didn't EVen get much work done on the car,
but I guess I'll have to add all those emissions to my EV total.
On the other hand, if it weren't for the EV conversion I'd be
spending a lot of money on plumbing...
Sorry about the wasted bandwidth. It's a little lonely out here
in the Frozen North with no like minded guys to bounce ideas off
or help me figure out what the hell I'm going to do with my
hydraulic pump motor.
Mike Hoskinson
Steve wrote:
The vast majority of the pollution we face today is emissions incurred in
the name of transportation. To be sure, ZEVs are much cleaner at the
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Subject: Re: Truck (im)possibility
> Date: 22 Jan 2003 16:54:08 -0700
>
> The base model 2003 F250 Superduty weighs 5267lb and comes with a V8.
> Let's assume the V8 + etc weighs 667 lbs (for simple math). That makes
> the glider weigh about 4600 lbs. Add 2440 lbs of batteries, what ever
> your motor/controller/etc. weigh and another 500 lbs for batteries
> racks, cables, etc. That comes out to 7540lbs plus you
> motor/controller/etc (300lbs?)
That's a little truck. ;>)
Our standard electric Isuzu NPR runs 12,000lbs.
Just starting an 18,000lb version with a 30,000lb to follow that!
The standard trucks run single 9", mind you they only do 22 mph and have a range of
15-20 miles.
The 18,000lb will get a new 12" motor.
BFN
Randy
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:07 PM 1/22/2003 -0800, jerry dycus stated:
A better, less costly would be 1 or 2 E-teks
with a Sevcon controller with regen, controller bypass
switch gives you great eff, good power at under
$1,100.
So where would I find information on this kind of setup?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> This technology is 6 years old. What happened to it? Lawrence Rhodes....
> http://www.aerovironment.com/news/news-archive/news-fordevfastchrg.html
Somebody looked at the bottom line????
At power levels over about 5 Kw it's the old story of "how much ya wanna
spend??"
The big boys like Goment pockets. And well they don't let us little
EVers plug into the Buss Charge port.
I would like to change that....
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy Holmquist wrote:
>
> > Subject: Re: Truck (im)possibility
> > Date: 22 Jan 2003 16:54:08 -0700
> >
> > The base model 2003 F250 Superduty weighs 5267lb and comes with a V8.
> > Let's assume the V8 + etc weighs 667 lbs (for simple math). That makes
> > the glider weigh about 4600 lbs. Add 2440 lbs of batteries, what ever
> > your motor/controller/etc. weigh and another 500 lbs for batteries
> > racks, cables, etc. That comes out to 7540lbs plus you
> > motor/controller/etc (300lbs?)
>
> That's a little truck. ;>)
> Our standard electric Isuzu NPR runs 12,000lbs.
> Just starting an 18,000lb version with a 30,000lb to follow that!
> The standard trucks run single 9", mind you they only do 22 mph and have a range of
> 15-20 miles.
> The 18,000lb will get a new 12" motor.
> BFN
> Randy
>
> --
> Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
> PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
> Errington, British Columbia,
> Canada, V0R 1V0
> Phone: (250) 954-2230
> Fax: (250) 954-2235
> Website: http://www.canev.com
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
> EV conversion Kits and components
Randy who's 12 motor???? Sepex or series??
a 12 incher series... would make a nice drag truck starter.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Mason Convey wrote:
> >
> > + Where's the reference to fast charging (> 240vac, >6kwh)?
> >
> > It's there, you just gotta browse long enough. Sure, some of the
> > chargers on that site are "only" 10kW or 15kW output. But you'll also
> > find that some are 25kW or 33kW. 100kW and 150kW units of the same
> > flavor are also around, but I don't think they're listed on that site
> > right now.
>
> Would 250 kW (450 amps) be fast enough? Rich?
>
> http://www.aerovironment.com/area-pps/prod-serv/av-900.html
>
> Victor
Yea I think that would hold me for a while...
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
Sorry for the HTML version. I forgot to switch to plain text. Here is the
message again.
I need to sell my 1992 Saturn SL2 EV for financial reasons, and I'm trying
to figure out what kind of price to set. I don't want to part the car out,
since it is a functioning EV. I also don't want to give it to the Kidney
Foundation, since I need the money sooner than a tax break (plus they would
just scrap it, since they wouldn't know how to deal with it). Going through
my receipts, I added up that the car cost 20K to build. This consists of 5K
for the donor car (it is a very clean 1992 Saturn SL2) and 15K on parts and
welding labor. I had the welding done professionally. I also am not paying
myself anything for working on it. I realize that I'm probably not going to
get out what I put into it, but I'd appreciate some input as to what would
be a fair price to ask. I used top quality parts for the conversion. The
controller is a DCP T-600, the DC-DC converter is also DCP, ADC 9" motor,
240V system with 20 Optima YTs, NG5 charger and 19 PowerCheqs. The EV photo
album has some pictures. I'd really appreciate any advice on how to price
it. I've looked on Ebay and the Trading Post sites, but couldn't get a feel
for how to price it.
Thanks again,
John Lentz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
--- John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 07:07 PM 1/22/2003 -0800, jerry dycus stated:
> > A better, less costly would be 1 or 2
> E-teks
> >with a Sevcon controller with regen, controller
> bypass
> >switch gives you great eff, good power at under
> >$1,100.
>
> So where would I find information on this kind of
> setup?
EV Parts has the units and power graphs on
their website. They have a special combo price running
now I believe.
Between the higher eff of about 10%+ and extra
range from regen could really help Sparrows go 10-20%
farther.
Switch to ni-cad mono-blocks and add another
50/75%. Single cells will only give you about 25%
better range as they weigh more than ni-cad
mono-blocks. Of couse no range reduction from cold
weather is nice too.
YT's range/lb is 10% less than floodeds L/A's
under 300 amps, doesn't help the stock Sparrow either.
Maybe find a flooded deep cycle gp24? batt from US or
Trojan that will fit.
1 motor would work well in Fla but for hilly
areas like yours and fixed reduction gear I'd go
for 2.
A second 48 vdc controller or 1 higher voltage
Sevcon regen controller with 2 e-tek motors in series
can replace the bypass contactor.
With regen, good power, high eff and low costs
it's a hard act to beat.
With the money you save from buying a new YT
pack, selling your controller, good YT's, charger and
motor may pay for the new parts and surplus ni-cads
and cut your need for future packs and their costs.
On your YT's I'd go through about 10 shallow,
progressing to deep cycles before saying they are dead
though will probably never do your commute again. It
takes a while for the lead to wake back up, equalize
after sitting a month or more. L/A batts work best
when used every day.
HTH,
jerry dycus
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On your YT's I'd go through about 10 shallow,
progressing to deep cycles before saying they are dead
though will probably never do your commute again. It
takes a while for the lead to wake back up, equalize
after sitting a month or more. L/A batts work best
when used every day.
Definitely cycle them a few times.
If you have regulators, charge the car until they blink (or
whatever your brand does when the batteries get to 15 volts each.) Then
disconnect the regs and push 2 amps constant current through the pack for
an hour or a bit more. (Your Zivan charger should do this without
adjustment. Just turn it on.) Do this routine for the next few cycles until
the capacity picks up and then levels out.
If you are missing capacity, you have to "push in" the missing
amp-hrs.
If that doesn't work, I have a couple other things to try before
you should abandon the pack.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> The main challenge is in finding a good place to couple such a
>> generator or alternator to your motor...
Chuck Hursch wrote:
> Yes, we looked at the generator idea some years ago, but there is
> no tailshaft on my 8" ADC.
Here's an idea I've been thinking about for adding one. My ADC motor
already has about 1/4" of shaft exposed, with a center hole at the tail
end. That's not enough to mount any normal pulley or coupler.
My thought is to hold a drill bit against it and run the motor to drill
a hole. Tap this hole so a bolt can be inserted.
Get a pulley with a center hole that is smaller than the shaft. Have it
machined so it is a press fit over the stub of shaft, and then use a
bolt in the center hole to pull it on. Now I should have a pulley that
runs true, but won't be able to tranfer any torque.
So, drill a few holes in the periphery, half in the pulley's hub and
half in the motor shaft. Thread them, and drive in some set screws to
lock the pulley and shaft together. This *should* lock the pulley to the
shaft adequately so it can drive an alternator for regen or accessory
battery charging.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> The main challenge is in finding a good place to couple such a
>> generator or alternator to your motor...
Chuck Hursch wrote:
> Yes, we looked at the generator idea some years ago, but there is
> no tailshaft on my 8" ADC.
Here's an idea I've been thinking about for adding one. My ADC motor
already has about 1/4" of shaft exposed, with a center hole at the tail
end. That's not enough to mount any normal pulley or coupler.
My thought is to hold a drill bit against it and run the motor to drill
a hole. Tap this hole so a bolt can be inserted.
Get a pulley with a center hole that is smaller than the shaft. Have it
machined so it is a press fit over the stub of shaft, and then use a
bolt in the center hole to pull it on. Now I should have a pulley that
runs true, but won't be able to tranfer any torque.
So, drill a few holes in the periphery, half in the pulley's hub and
half in the motor shaft. Thread them, and drive in some set screws to
lock the pulley and shaft together. This *should* lock the pulley to the
shaft adequately so it can drive an alternator for regen or accessory
battery charging.
Lee,
I think this will work.
A data point to consider here is how Bob Schneeveis mounts things to
ADC motor shafts. I used to think he was nuts, until I saw it work
so much, and he runs them hard with a Zilla.
He makes a hub that fits over the shaft with about .002" clearance.
The tight fit is for alignment. The most important part is that the
hub is deep enough that the inside flange rests on the inner bearing
race for the motor shaft. The motor shaft should not bottom out in
the hub.
The hub is bolted to the shaft with the stock 5/16 threaded hole. He
uses a Grade 8 bolt, a very thick washer and Locktite 271 on the
threads.
He does use the keyway in both. But I've heard him say that it's
probably not needed in this case. It turns out that the friction of
the hub to the bearing race (and from the other side of the race to
the shaft again) is quite large when it is being pressed by a grade 8
5/16 bolt at recommended torque.
Bob always says that if you actually use the keyway, you're likely to
beat it up anyway.
So, if I had 1/16" or more of shaft available for alignment, I think
I'd go ahead and try it without the key or setscrews.
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Z2K controller, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> A better, less costly would be 1 or 2 E-teks
> with a Sevcon controller with regen, controller bypass
> switch gives you great eff, good power at under
> $1,100.
> 90% eff for the motors and 95% eff for the
> controller will be about the same eff as an AC unit
> would. Add regen and buddy pair the largest ni-cads
> you can fit in it and may do what range you need John.
> No cold weather problems either.
Small problem. E-tek's need to have the brush timing set to neutral if
you are going to do regen. When you set the brushes to neutral your
efficiency drops quite a bit (around 5% IIRC).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 22:13, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> This technology is 6 years old. What happened to it? Lawrence Rhodes....
> http://www.aerovironment.com/news/news-archive/news-fordevfastchrg.html
the major problem is simply getting the power to the charger. Assuming
the batteries and charger total 80% efficient that means you have to put
over 56kw into the pack for 20 minutes.
that's 255 amps at 220V.
That's more than twice what the average household power panel is rated
for.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2003-01-22 at 21:51, Walker, Lesley R wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > When I lived back in Illinois my power company was experimenting with
> > something that would solve this type of problem. Basically you got a
> > lower rate but had to add special power control boxes to certain high
> > drain appliances (like water heaters).
> > The power company had control of these boxes (the consumer could
> > override the power company, but they got fined if they did it
> > too often) and could shut them down during periods of high demand.
>
> Experimenting???? Gosh. We've had that system in my country for
> decades. Literally. Some of those control boxes are probably older
> than me, and I'm 40.
>
> (Although, we also used to have centralised government-owned management
> of our electricity infrastructure until some bright spark decided it
> should be carved up and privatised, but that's another rant.)
>
> I guess from a marketing point of view it would be an experiment to
> introduce such a system where it hadn't been before. I suppose I'm
> just really surprised to hear about it as a "new" thing.
>
Oops, sorry. Didn't mean to imply that it was a new idea. The
'experimenting' in this case referred to the power company seeing
whether it was effective and saved them money.
FWIW My power company here in Arizona is 'experimenting' with time of
use meters. Even though it would save money for many people to switch
to them (I now run my washer, dryer, etc off peak) they won't let you
unless you have high power draw appliances. Fortunately electric
vehicles qualify as "high draw".
As evidence that it would save most people money, my electric bill with
TOU and my electric truck is almost exactly what it was prior to TOU and
electric truck.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been helping a gentleman named Larry who came to Fort Piece's 2nd EV
rally with an Ford explorer Suv conversion. I was not so hot on the idea
at first as I figured it would be slow with not much distance. Larry drove
my conversions around and we talked about it for a while . I said that the
performance would Probable be a little better that my truck and trailer
(120v 5800lbs) but not much. He was O.K. with that and liked the big SUV
feel. On something big like this I would think that the 6v golf carts bats
would be good as we'll need a lot of lead and golf carts bats are 1/2 the
price per lbs. Larry went with the excide's YT look a likes and got 28 so
the voltage was 336 . Highest I've seen and this wasn't the best plan .
after letting smoke out of the controller twice we're now at 168volts , 2
strings of 14 (if it blows the first time try again blows the second time do
something else) . It has been almost 2 years and last Sunday was the
first real ride without something going wrong. Of course its hard to get
performance info with a short ride around the block (we put about 15 miles
on it) but looks like 35 /40 mph at 50/100 amps which would give it a 20
mile range. I can't help but feel that if he had put all this stuff into a
small light car he would have had a very fast car with good distance .
Instead he has a slow SUV with short distance . Kind of like a NEV SUV. I
have talked to a lot of people who say that would be fine. ( I almost get
the feeling that a heavy SUV 40mph 25 mile would be liked more than a light
car 70mph 50 range) . I think if it were me and I needed to tow a big
trailer some of the time I'd go with 156v 6v golf cart one 11" kostov and
just drive slow when towing .
Steve Clunn
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 10:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Truck (im)possibility
>
>
> > Interesting. Frankly I'm trying to figure out if such a vehicle would
be
> > possible, and how much I'd have to save to do it. My income has
increased
> > lately, so it isn't impossible that I would make one.
> > The one thing you don't mention is that the DC setup doesn't have regen,
> > but the AC does. Of course I'm still not sure if regen is worth that
> much.
> > A good base truck could be had for 5 or 6K$.
> > I wonder how many MB100's could fit under a truck bed? Or 6V floodeds?
> Or
> > surplus NiCd?
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice asked:
> Had a guy , REALLY interested in EV's at the Car Parts
> Store I trade with, sed he had a Saturn, and asked if it
> would be a good choice, as he sed it had plastic body panels?
> Would be lite? Haven't we got some Saturn Guyz on
> the List? Good Choice? Thinking of what-shall-I-convert,
> next, go round?
See this site for a very detailed journal of a Saturn conversion,
one of the two stories that inspired me to get into this stuff:
http://advanceguard.dhs.org/conversion/ConversionIndex.htm
> Bob.....in frozen CT below 0 tonite they sed. Phooy! My
> batteries HATE it!
If it's any consolation, we're not getting much of a summer
over this side of the planet. Grey skies where I am, and
Australia keeps catching fire.
--
Lesley Walker
Can speak English, Italian and Geek
Wellington, New Zealand
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
When you say 'I wrote a program that crashed Windows',
people just stare at you blankly and say 'Hey, I got
those with the system, for free' -- Linus Torvalds
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> --------------
>
> I would like to quickly note that what has put in a writing mood
> is the great messages I've been receiving from John Wayland lately. A
> recent one entitled: "60 Miles per day in Blue Meanie!" had me at times
> rolling on the floor in laughter, and at other times smiling in a knowing
> way as I can see that John has a love affair with his Blue Meanie that is
> very similar to that which I have for my EV Ghia, the trusty little
feller.
> I would like to dedicate the ice skating portion of this post to Gail in
> Las Vegas, where it's likely a hundred degrees right now. :)
>
I sure miss John's stories, it's a little like trunning on the raido to your
favoriet station and its gone ,When the e-mail comes in I alway look (now
and in the past) for his post . but your not doing bad . Makes me want to
put on my ice skates and look for some Florida ice.
> As I pulled the EV out into the deep snow, it made that incredible
> low frequency crunching sound that can only be heard in a silent car.
> Since it took a considerable amount of power just to move, my old analog
> controller took on the smoothness of an MPC. After running the heater for
> a minute, while I took off my extra coats (it's in the low teens), I
> punched through the wall of snow and out onto the snowpacked streets. I
> was feeling warm then and so turned off the heat, but with how cold it was
> out, the windshield immediately started to fog up. No problem in an EV,
> the instant electric heat had it cleared up in about 2 seconds.
>
> I turned down the hill and crossed Lewis Street, then Clark Street
> after that. Making a right turn, I started down Geyser Street toward
> downtown. Ever since I installed a capacitor across my pot box, and
> invested in some expensive tires imported from Holland, I've not laid an
> inch of rubber. It accelerates at my traction limit and not beyond, great
> for still having full traction in the snow, with the just-like-new, never
> smoked, tires. After passing the main part of town and getting into the
> fancy victorian area, I made a turn on Yellowstone, and started down
toward
> Sacajawea Park.
>
> There is a scenic lagoon, fed by the river, that makes a nice
> duck pond and fishing hole in the summer and freezes in the winter for
great
> ice skating. I pulled the EV Ghia off the main road and into a trackless
> expanse of deep snow nearby. I could hear the roar of the river and had to
> take a quick walk over to the steaming Y-Stone, and watch it cascade past
> framed by bright snowy banks. As I was getting my skates and stuff out of
> the car, a pickup pulled in just beyond me and got quite stuck. I then
> noticed that my car was pointing up hill, "oh well I could always back out
> on my tracks if I need to". He went back and forth, lots of tire spinning
> and sliding around sideways, but finally got back out on the main road and
> continued on his drive through the snow covered park.
>
> I went over to a small shelter on the bank of the lagoon and put
> on my skates. I felt pretty wobbly on them as I hadn't done any skating
> since years before while visiting Gail. Using muscles that I hadn't used
> for years would be tough, but I took a swig of Cabernet Savignon that I
> had put in a small "Think Mobility" water bottle and headed out onto the
> frozen pond. It was great! Gliding effortlessly over the light powdery
> snow made me feel like I was skiing without skiis, with only the sound of
> steel on ice like fine cutlery, giving away the secret to my effortless
> travel. The scenery around the area is great, looking back from where I
came,
> I could see the Little Feller waiting for me from where he was parked
under
> huge Cottonwoods along the shore. A beautiful bridge, nice homes, and the
> natural landscaping of the river's floodplain completed the wintery scene.
> Side stepping through a long and graceful turn, it was easy to loose track
> of speed while traveling over the featureless snow, but crossing the
occasional
> tracks of a pedestrian made the high speed suddenly obvious as they went
> sweeping past.
>
> When it was time to leave, my memories returned to the guy who had
> gotten stuck in the snow and I was anxious to give my EV the same test. I
> remembered how my car had ground to a hault, as it was pushing through the
> snow and wanted to see how it would continue on that path from a dead
stop,
> while going up the gentle hill. Like I said, the analog controller feels
> pretty smooth when you're doing some work like this, but it's still an
analog
> controller, so it took off pretty abuptly. With no wheel spin, the car
lunged
> ahead, thanks to it's rear biased weight distribution, and driving around,
> conquering, the area where the big feller had gotten stuck was great fun
for
> the Little Feller!
>
> My battery pack is chilled into the low teens, but it performed
> marvelously. After parking it back in the EV shop, I wanted to check my
motor
> to see how ~warm it had gotten. I'd say it had warmed clear up into the
20's
> or so, after that drive. It's practically a superconductor at these temps!
>
> Seeya,
> John
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The evercel being cycled to death has reached cycle 200.
The summary graphic is located at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/evercel%20cycle%20200%20summary.gif
The capacity is now just under 70 ahr.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
