EV Digest 2574
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Curious battery behavior.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: What was the Ego
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Curious battery behavior.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Dump charger with no manners
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) .36 Coefficient of drag
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Perendev.co.za U.S. Contact. Edwin Gray the answer. - Tilley Coverage
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: .36 Coefficient of drag
by Charlie Richmond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) EVLN(Speak up if you want Think City EVs sold outside Norway)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EVLN(JDPower now attacks hybrids instead of EVs)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EVLN(% EVs a passed fad? %)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVLN(JDPower now attacks hybrids instead of EVs)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Other Curious battery behavior.
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Dump charger with no manners
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Other Curious battery behavior.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: What was the E.Com?
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: It's me: (New EV Project en route)!
by "Christian Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Motorcycle Transmission
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by "Kevin Coughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) EV News ceases publication
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: .36 Coefficient of drag
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Curious battery behavior.
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: PFC20 vs Sparrow - there is hope
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I've got about 1500 miles on the pack now. A mix of new and used Delphi 8v
batteries. The reg external loads here and there are hot. The batteries
don't seem warm. 5 amps over 30 batteries. How hot can it get? ah but
that wouldn't be over 30 batteries. Only the ones that are still blinking.
Is this a job for one of those infrared temperature sensors? I have never
had the Delphis working this good. I trashed a bunch in my motor cycle but
was only charging at 9.6v per battery. 10.1 to 10.2 is much better. I got
a bunch more used batteries. Hopefully I can make them last. Seems the
Delphis like gentle use. I took them 40 miles and the pack was only down to
123.72. It seems I took my previous car down to 118v all the time and only
went 20 miles with a pack half the size. I have a feeling I could go 100
miles with this vehicle if I kept it down to 45mph. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > I am noticing that my pack no longer goes down to 1 amp on charge.
Maybe 2
> > amps then it draws more current. Many of my batteries drop below charge
> > voltage. Some don't and their external resistor gets real hot. One or
two
> > melted the mounting plastic they were on. I think I cooked them for
about
> > an hour and a half more than I should of charged. The voltage on the
BC -20
> > actually went down about a half volt. None of the batteries went over
> > voltage the regulators are doing their job. I think the excess current
is
> > converted into heat. Why? Why do some batteries drop in voltage and
others
> > don't. These are 8v Delphi batteries. Car runs well. Pack seems
healthy.
> > Lawrence Rhodes....
> Thermal runaway... nasty thing in old batteries.
>
> Make sure the regs are NOT fried and in constant shorted load mode.
> You have a history of nukeing Regs.
> I have some here that are pretty wasted...there are a couple of new Reg
> Abusers out there.... You are not alone.
>
>
> Ah for forensic Electronics teching.....
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where are you? I have forgotten. Lawrence Rhodes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 1:04 PM
Subject: What was the Ego
> Hi!
>
> A couple of weeks back I saw a Toyota Ego on the sidewalk here. Looked
like
> a really little car, but had california plates and said it was an electric
> car.
>
> What is it? What is the story? Do these exist? Range/availibility/etc?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do all the regs blink if you leave the charger at a low level (~1 amp)
overnight?
When you get all the regs blinking, check the voltage setting on the regs to
make sure they are all set correctly.
If a reg does not come on nor blink, then either the battery voltage is too
low (degraded battery or thermal runaway) or the reg setpoint is too high.
If the reg comes on solid, either the charger is set too high or the load is
not drawing current.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> I've got about 1500 miles on the pack now. A mix of new and used Delphi
8v
> batteries. The reg external loads here and there are hot. The batteries
> don't seem warm. 5 amps over 30 batteries. How hot can it get? ah but
> that wouldn't be over 30 batteries. Only the ones that are still
blinking.
> Is this a job for one of those infrared temperature sensors? I have never
> had the Delphis working this good. I trashed a bunch in my motor cycle
but
> was only charging at 9.6v per battery. 10.1 to 10.2 is much better. I
got
> a bunch more used batteries. Hopefully I can make them last. Seems the
> Delphis like gentle use. I took them 40 miles and the pack was only down
to
> 123.72. It seems I took my previous car down to 118v all the time and
only
> went 20 miles with a pack half the size. I have a feeling I could go 100
> miles with this vehicle if I kept it down to 45mph. Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> >> the equation for the inductance needed is V = L x di/dt
I have been playing with the numbers and noticed the relationship between v
and L and dt and this is kind of how I though it would be but I am having
trouble understanding how di fits in the picture.
exp,,,, say you have a di of 2amps which comes form 40amps - 38amps (this
would seem well filtered ) compared to a di from 3amps - 1 amp (not so well
filtered) , the di is the same with both hence the same size L . It would
apear that driving the filter with hi amps makes it filter better when V and
L and dt stay the same.
The other thing I am wondering about is the load . If it's a 12v batt
being charged for 168v or 120v batt (charged to 140v ) . Should V be = 168
for both (asuming input V is 168 or 120rms)
Seem like you would need a bigger L (or smaller dt) for the 12v batt.
Thanks for your help
Steve Clunn
> > The higher the ripple the bigger the di?
>
> Yes. Ripple is the max current minus the minimum current. If the current
> is going from 9 amps to 11 amps in each cycle, the peak-to-peak ripple
> current is 11 - 9 = 2 amps. So "di" is 2 amps in the above equation. "d"
> is short for "delta", the greek letter that looks like a triangle, which
> mathematics uses as the symbol for "the change in".
>
> > am I correct in thinking that the Max on time for the power transistor
> > should not be more that 50%?
>
> No. A buck converter can be run at any duty cycle from 0% to 100%.
> Consider the PWM controller in an EV. It runs at 0% when you want the
> motor completely off, and 100% when you want it full on (essentially
> connects the motor directly to the battery).
>
> >> L = V / (di/dt)
> >> = 168vdc / (11a-9a)/0.0005sec
> >> = 0.042 henries, or 42 millihenries
>
> > that would = 42,000? I better start winding.
>
> 0.042 henries = 42 millihenries = 42,000 microhenries. But, you need to
> insert your actual numbers. I was just guessing at your AC input
> voltage, switching frequency, and DC output current.
>
> > I have a few that I'm playing with, one a 1kw antenna balun,
>
> That one is probably powdered iron. Less than half the bulk of the core
> material is iron, and the rest is binder. It won't make a good low
> frequency inductor. Try picking it up with a magnet -- you may find it
> is hardly magnetic at all.
>
> > some 60 cycle toroids that I can rewind.
>
> They will be wound from a long strip of iron lamination, and won't have
> a gap. You'd have to saw a slot in it to use it in a buck converter, and
> if you did, it would fall apart.
>
> If you're going to use a low switching frequency (low audio), then use
> E-I transformer laminations for your inductor. Stack all the E's and put
> your winding on the center leg. Stack all the I's and put a thin paper
> shim between the E's and I's as your gap. You can adjust the inductance
> by changing the thickness of the gap.
>
> If you're going to use a high switching frequency (above audio), then
> use a ferrite core, or molypermalloy toroid core. These will be hard to
> find surplus, because you don't have the equipment to measure the core's
> magnetic characteristics. It will be like trying to find a resistor that
> works in a circuit without an ohmmeter to tell you what it is.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Aspire is listed as having a .36 cd. Is that good or bad? Lawrence
Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On a slightly related note, it looks like Greater Things News Service has turned on
Carl Tilley.
(Electric DeLorean with endless recharger that blew a bearing at Nashville)
http://www.greaterthings.com/News/Tilley/fraud/index.html
They basically call him a fraud and professional con man.
Mark
(Apologies if this has already been posted)
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Harper [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 5 February 2003 2:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Perendev.co.za U.S. Contact. Edwin Gray the answer.
My feelings exactly. :) I'm willing to invest a little time to see if
its a scam or not. I will divulge my needs to them in order to create
a useable vehicle. If they can agree to create product that can
fulfill those needs, and actually deliver a demonstration, then we will
move further. I'll keep you all updated.
-Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The evercell being cycled to death has reached 254 cycles today. The updated
graphic is available at the bottom of
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm.
The latest capacity is 63.3 ahr (from an observed high of 83.2 ahr).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 4 Feb 2003, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> The Aspire is listed as having a .36 cd. Is that good or bad?
Mediocre overall but not too bad for a very tiny car.
Charlie
+------- Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design Ltd -------+
+--- NEW email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----+
+------------ http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com ------------+
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Speak up if you want Think City EVs sold outside Norway)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/business/article.jhtml?articleID=483965
Wednesday 05 February 2003
Kamkorp keen to power up electric car production
Kamkorp Microelectronics formally took over electric car
maker Think Nordic from Ford Motor Co this week, and
promises to plug development and production activity back
in.
Operations at the Think Nordic plant in Aurskog, northwest
of Oslo, came to a halt last fall when Ford said it wanted
to pull out of the electric car maker. Ford continued to pay
Think's roughly 100 staff members, but they did work for the
local community while Ford searched for a buyer to take over
Think.
Kamkorp Microelectronics, part of the Kamkorp Group of
Switzerland, says it specializes in the development and
production of advanced electric- and hybrid operating
systems. Its business development director, Bernd Winkler,
claimed in a statement over the weekend that Kamkorp looked
forward to take over a company that "Ford has built up over
the past four years."
Winkler said an operating system developed by Kamkorp
"matches perfectly with Think Nordic's goals." Kamkorp also
has bought the rights to use the brand names "TH!NK" and
"City."
The plant at Aurskog and its staff will remain in place,
Winkler said. "We bought Think Nordic because of our strong
belief in electric cars, an excellent product, and because
of the accomplishments and knowledge of the employees," he
said.
He said Kamkorp's plan is to continue to develop and produce
Think cars in Norway. The next few months, he noted, will be
largely devoted to strategy sessions. It's thought those
session will likely include efforts to continue exports of
the cars to the US, where they have lots of fans.
The "Think City" model has an active and enthusiastic market
in California, where a limited number of cars have been
available for lease. Many drivers, in letters to
Aftenposten, have expressed their desire to buy the cars and
rave about their service and reliability.
Both engineers at Think Nordic and a representative for the
employees, Christian Bech, said they were grateful for
Ford's support.
"Ford has worked very hard and supported us wholeheartedly
during a difficult time," said Bech. "Now we've fortunately
arrived at a good solution and we look forward to show our
new owners what we can do."
Aftenposten English Web Desk
Nina Berglund [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
http://www.newsonline.nu/release.asp?PmId=23820&ComId=5369
2003-02-01 12:06
Kamkorp Microelectronics Acquires Think Nordic
Aurskog, February 1 2003. Kamkorp Microelectronics Inc.
confirmed today the successful completion of the contract
with Ford Motor Company to acquire Think Nordic AS, the
Norway-based manufacturer of passenger electric vehicles.
The contract is effective from January 31 2003.
Kamkorp Microelectronics Inc., member of the Kamkorp group
of companies, is based in Switzerland. Among its portfolio
of electronic products, Kamkorp specialises in the
development and manufacture of sophisticated electric and
hybrid electric drivetrains.
Kamkorp European Business Development Director, Bernd
Winkler, commented: "We are excited to carry on the business
Ford has built up over the past four years. There is a
10-year history of EV production in Norway, and the
workforce at Aurskog has unrivalled experience and expertise
in this specialist area. Ford has kept this tradition alive,
and now we are thrilled to take over. The drivetrain
developed by Kamkorp is a perfect fit for Think Nordic.
"The manufacturing facility and its 100-strong workforce
will remain at Aurskog," added Bernd Winkler. "We have
bought Think Nordic AS because of our belief in the electric
vehicle business, the excellent product, and the skill and
expertise of the employees. Our plans have always centred on
the continued development and production of TH!NK vehicles
in Norway," he said.
The new owners of Think Nordic have purchased the right to
use the "TH!NK" and "city" brand names as part of the
agreement, and plan to continue campaigning for more
extensive public support for environmentally friendly
electric vehicles.
In announcing the successful purchase of Think Nordic, Bernd
Winkler also appealed for time to further develop the future
strategy for the company.
Think Nordic engineer, and workforce representative,
Christian Bech, praised the efforts of Ford Motor Company in
finding a new owner. "Ford has worked very hard and has
supported us all throughout this difficult time," he said.
"But now we are all excited about the future, and the chance
to show our new owners exactly what we can do!"
Bernd Winkler is also paid tribute to the contribution made
by Ford Motor Company during their ownership of Think Nordic
AS and their positive actions to ensure the continuation of
electric vehicle technology in Norway.
For further information please contact: Bernd Winkler,
Kamkorp Microelectronics Inc, phone mobile +41 795092334
For use of photos, please see attached link:
http://www.multinett.no/reinert/bilder/think/thinkenglish.html
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
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. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(JDPower now attacks hybrids instead of EVs)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
JD Power dumps hybrids
http://www.fleet-central.com/af/newspick.cfm?rank=2914
...
Nader uses UCS study
http://www.caller.com/ccct/national_world_news/article/0,1641,CCCT_812_1721701,00.html
...
Bush's forever fuel
http://library.northernlight.com/FB20030202730000023.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0#doc
-
=====
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(% EVs a passed fad? %)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.californiaaggie.com/_articles/5431.taf
[...] the Davis community ? both on campus and in the city ?
has displayed an admirable willingness to be at the
forefront of such promotion. Specialized parking spaces and
electric-car recharging stations around town, as well as
multi-pronged research initiatives at UC Davis, demonstrate
that alternative fuels are more than a passing fad. [...]
-
=====
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~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The evercell being cycled to death has reached 254 cycles today. The updated
graphic is available at the bottom of
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm.
The latest capacity is 63.3 AHr (from an observed high of 83.2 AHr).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The evercell being cycled to death has reached 254 cycles today. The updated
> graphic is available at the bottom of
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm.
if I may ask a couple of bonehead questions:
each chart display hundreds of sequences; what is the relationship between
sequences and cycles?
> The latest capacity is 63.3 ahr (from an observed high of 83.2 ahr).
you're deliberately abusing this battery to test it's limits, yes?
how does the evercel compare to other batteries so far?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> EVLN(JDPower now attacks hybrids instead of EVs)
> [The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
> informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
> --- {EVangel}
> JD Power dumps hybrids
> http://www.fleet-central.com/af/newspick.cfm?rank=2914
JD Powers is a pollster. They just report what the people they polled
said. Poll idiots, and you get idiotic answers.
The average person doesn't own a hybrid, has never driven a hybrid,
doesn't know anyone who has one, and in general knows nothing about them
at all. There are 100 times more diesels on the roads than hybrids, and
they have been around for decades longer. So, people are far more
familiar with them.
The fact that so many said they would try a hybrid, despite their
ignorance about them, says a lot about how dis-satisfied people are with
the other choices (gas or diesel).
--
Lee A. Hart "I'm voting for Nader. I don't know his
814 8th Ave. N. views, but they've got to be better than
Sartell, MN 56377 USA Bush's or Gore's."
leeahart_at_earthlink.net (overheard at the last election)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Using a simple transformer charger controlled by a fan speed control.
I have noticed that some times when I am charging a flooded lead battery, as
it comes up to fully charged the current seems to just hang at say 3 or 4
amps for a longish time. But if I stop charging and let sit over night then
turn the charge back on there is the normal spike of high current as the
voltage comes up to what it was the night before (on charge). But the
current then rapidly tapers down to less then an amp at the same or slightly
higher voltage then it was hanging on the night before.
Am I just not waiting long enough on the first charge?
Or is it possible that the chemical reactions that occur during charging
keep going for a while after I stop the initial charging?
Note that I have not done any controlled testing.
Andre' B. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If something cannot be defined, it does not exist.
Isaac Newton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Clunn wrote:
>> the equation for the inductance needed is V = L x di/dt
> I have been playing with the numbers and noticed the relationship
> between v and L and dt... say you have a di of 2amps which comes
> from 40amps - 38amps (this would seem well filtered) compared to
> a di from 3amps - 1 amp (not so well filtered). The di is the same
> with both hence the same size L. It would appear that driving the
> filter with hi amps makes it filter better when V and L and dt
> stay the same.
That's right! The lower the current, the more inductance you need for a
given percent ripple.
> The other thing I am wondering about is the load. If it's a 12v batt
> being charged for 168v or 120v batt (charged to 140v). Should V be
> = 168 for both (asuming input V is 168 or 120rms)?
Yes, if that is your input voltage. The output voltage does not matter.
> Seem like you would need a bigger L (or smaller dt) for the 12v batt.
Nope. If your duty cycle can be adjusted low enough, you can charge a
12v a battery as well as a 120v pack. Or a single 2v cell, for that
matter.
But as a practical matter, the duty cycle becomes very short. The
efficiency gets low because transistor and diode voltage drops become a
larger fraction of the output voltage.
And, the transistor and diode's voltage and current ratings get pretty
high for a low voltage output. Take the diode, for example. Suppose you
build a 12v 10amp charger with a 120vac input buck converter. The input
voltage is 120vac x 1.4 = 168v, so you need at least a 200v 10amp diode.
If you had used a simple transformer-rectifier charger, you could have
used a 20v 10amp diode (though you need 2 or 4 of them for full-wave).
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andre Blanchard wrote:
> ...when I am charging a flooded lead battery, as it comes up to
> fully charged the current seems to just hang at say 3 or 4 amps
> for a longish time. But if I stop charging and let sit over night
> then turn the charge back on there is the normal spike of high
> current as the voltage comes up to what it was the night before
> (on charge). But the current then rapidly tapers down to less
> then an amp at the same or slightly higher voltage then it was
> hanging on the night before.
Part of it is because the battery is warmer. It cooled off overnight, so
the charging current at the same voltage is less.
Another parts is that it takes time for the battery current to taper
down to its final rate at full charge. You can't rush it too much, for
instance by putting a higher current in for less hours.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From : "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To :
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject : Re: What was the E.Com? Date :
Tue, 4 Feb 2003 19:05:46 -0500 Apparently at least two, and one is in
private hands (and was in DC) at this
point. The one in question was just sitting waiting to be parked at a
parking garage.
Is it a real car, or an NEV? Is it for sale; would be an excellent
compliment to dragging the Prizm all over the place. And with somewhat
longer range to boot :-)
For folks in Southern California, if you get to the Irvine Transportation
Center on Ada before about 7:30am, there's one there that you can ogle in
the parking lot. I didn't get all the details from the driver. He's
test-piloting the car for Toyota. He doesn't seem all that interested in
the range or top speed (he didn't test either), and wasn't that excited
about talking about it (probably gets questioned by everybody in the world.)
There's no charging at the ITC, so he must charge at work. He seemed mildly
positive about the experience, but wasn't an EV advocate by any stretch.
It's a cute 2-seater with some storage in the back. The perfect
around-the-mountain car for my wife--if only we could buy one. <Sigh>
Tim
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob,
Please send me an email when your Civic (4 door sedan, ex?) is converted. By
the way, is there any way I can talk you into putting a 95+ hp motor in
since you are doing a conversion for "fun and profit". If I had the time,
space and ability to convert a vehicle to electric, I'd do it with something
to prove. What I mean is, I'd best the gas numbers in the power area, just
to show off a little performance wise, if I could. In short, I'm interested
in your civic.
Sincerely,
Christian T. Kocmick
Dayton, Ohio
(Wish there was a conversion shop here)
----Original Message Follows----
From: Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: It's me: (New EV Project en route)!
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:52:00 -0800 (PST)
Well, plenty has transpired since last week; or since
my last post.
VoltsRabbit #2 (Farfromsmoggen) has been sold. As
a result, I found it only fitting that I become
"CivicWithACord", instead of "Farfromsmoggen." With
my EV fund established at the sale of the vehicle plus
another 1K, I'm _ready to spend_. (;-p
I've removed the spare tire, and the padding from
the trunk of the car; installed a sweet CD player, but
until the block is pulled, not much else to do but
measure and DREAM and THINK.
Called a local Honda dealer, and while they
couldn't use the block, the service manager had a son
with a hatchback who wanted it (only got 350K mi. out
of _his_ engine). So here's my 16 valve 1.5 liter; I
want at least $250 for the EV fund, right? Turns out
he welds at the local HS, and needs a senior project
to graduate, and _really_ wants a well-maintained
engine + computer with 97K miles on it.
I gave him my copy of "Convert It", and a really
cool videotape shot by Lynn Adams, showing the guts
and all of _his_ Civic, that mine will be quite
similar to. Well, he's been bitten by the bug, and
can't wait to start work on my project!
The '92 sedan I will be using has sentimental
value, as it carried my older daughter home when she
was born 10 years ago. Turning it into an EV will
immortalize it, (until it gets hit). Because it is a
sedan, I will be able to sit 3 x 3 batteries (8V GC;
sorry, I'm pretty set on them) in the spare tire tray.
It's _huge_ and will sit on two beefy frame members.
The senior should come up with the same idea as he
designs the rack. I also have room for a battery
inside/in front of the taillight, and the charger on
the other side. Not certain how I'll ventilate the
single (10th rear) battery by itself. This thing
should be 144V by the time I'm done. If Jeff can get
18 in a hatchback, I can get at least that many in a
sedan!
Next step was purchasing the 8" motor. Damon
Crockett has been horse-trading them like crazy with a
friend who bought out some of Corbin's inventory.
I've got to get a controller and DCDC anyway; makes
sense to go through him anyway.
Adapter plate: Nels Strandberg, who did Jeff
Clearwater's conversion (sold to Lynn Adams). Nels
has plenty of detailed drawings and our rigs are
identical in front. Problem was, he can't locate the
CAD file. I'll be able to pick up a core tranny for
my vehicle for Nels to use as a template for anything
he's missing. That keeps me from needing to remove
half-shafts, etc. to send him mine.
Here's the way it's looking:
$8300 for parts, minimum (shipping will add more).
This includes suspension upgrades.
6500 in budget.
1100 tax breaks in OR
300 Fed. tax break
Also in the budget was $3K for a salvage Civic for me
to drive, which will be sold the day CivicWithACord is
completed, likely for the same price as purchase.
Whole thing should run me about $600 in the red, since
I'm basically "trading up", as EVs go.
Some things for novices:
Yes, I love the body style of a '92 4 dr. Civic. And
there are plenty of replacement parts in salvage
yards. They are the "Rabbits" of the 90's.
No, I don't have automotive expertise. I'm a biology
major, who got into electronics because my parents
wouldn't support my electric guitar playing, and I
wanted a distortion box, and all of those other nifty
stomp-boxes. So, yes, I can read a schematic and then
some. Love to take things apart. If it sounds like I
am going to need to tap the expertise of others, you
would be correct. I don't weld, and I don't work on
suspensions without prior instruction.
Yes, I have EV expertise. Have wired controllers,
fabbed interconnects, wired an E-meter, to name a few.
Took a great class in So. Cal. at a JC.
If you're bored by this post, join the club! I'm
_smogging and I can't stop myself_ until this project
is done, and I need the block pulled! Can't wait to
talk to my new friend about his timeline!
So for the record, Farfromsmoggen is now _smogging_,
but he's soon to be driving CivicWithACord!
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I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
motorcycle conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and
bearings? I need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just
have not had any luck finding an existing transmission for my
project. And to get 45mph and reasonable acceleration is just not
possible on a direct drive. Only looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm,
so it doesn't have to be massive. But a little over-kill in the
engineering is planned.
Gordon Niessen
If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are
history.
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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Gordon Niessen wrote:
************
I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
motorcycle conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and
bearings? I need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have not
had any luck finding an existing transmission for my project. And to
get 45mph and reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a direct
drive. Only looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't have to be
massive. But a little over-kill in the engineering is planned.
************
Hi Gordon,
First of all, this came in as HTML. Didn't bother me, but it causes
problems with others' email software. Please post to the list in plain
text.
I've thought about your problem as well. Direct drive has a hard time
giving the acceleration one would expect from a motorcycle unless you're
willing to spend big bucks. A simple transmission could simplify things
greatly.
I've thought in terms of highway-capable bikes. For that power range,
maybe a Harley-Davidson Sportster transmission would work? (No idea,
I'm not a Harley guy.) For your power range the simplest thing might be
to go to a motorcycle wrecking yard and scrounge a dead 250-400 cc
two-stroke engine with a working transmission.
A two-stroke's trans is usually cast integrally with the engine (like
almost all motorcycles these days), but it's lubricant is separate.
That means you can cut away everything you don't need and have a
complete, self-contained transmission.
You can modify the clutch basket to make a hub that will connect to your
motor. An engine with a dry clutch will make sealing the input shaft a
non-problem. It will be five or six speeds, but that means you get to
pick the ones you want. If you want to minimize drag you could replace
gears with spacers and alter the shift mechanism to use only two gears.
Heck, with a decent transmission you might get much better than 45 mph!
Chris
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At our January EVA/DC meeting Lew Gulick, editor of "EV News", mentioned to
me that they were thinking of stopping publication.
Well, I just received a note from the publisher with a copy of "Hybrid News"
(but no "EV News") that said the magazine is no longer being published. And
if I wanted to, I could subscribe to Hybrid News for $190 or something to
that effect. No Thank You!
The publisher mentioned that advertising was down and they have run out of
money. Lew who was the founder of "EV News" has done an excellent job as
editor for the past 13 years and the publication will be missed.
It seems that the demise of "EV News" is a reflection of where we are today
in the EV movement.
Chip Gribben
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.org
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I do have a Harley FX 4 speed transmission 4sale.A special spoof case with
backcut andrews gears less than 5 miles on it with a tie down bracket for the
motor as well.Dennis KILL A WATT Berube
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The Aspire is listed as having a .36 cd. Is that good or bad? Lawrence
Rhodes.....
You decide - a Rabbit is .42, a Prius is .29
My EV Buggy is most likely over .60!
Neon
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Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I am noticing that my pack no longer goes down to 1 amp on charge. Maybe 2
amps then it draws more current. Many of my batteries drop below charge
voltage. Some don't and their external resistor gets real hot. One or two
melted the mounting plastic they were on. I think I cooked them for about
an hour and a half more than I should of charged. The voltage on the BC -20
actually went down about a half volt. None of the batteries went over
voltage the regulators are doing their job. I think the excess current is
converted into heat. Why? Why do some batteries drop in voltage and others
don't. These are 8v Delphi batteries. Car runs well. Pack seems healthy.
Lee Hart wrote:
Some guesses:
1. the batteries are getting old.
2. the batteries have lost some water.
3. the batteries are hot.
I have to second Lee's number 2 idea. I have an Optima in my pack
that has been doing that for 3 years (its worked fine for those 3
years though). Basically, I boiled the heck out of it the first year,
venting it regularly. It still works, but its voltage goes up, then
back down during charging. It showed excellent voltage after charge
or even a bit to high (it rested at 12.35v after 24 hours after
charging at its peak). In the last year it started showing normal
numbers 24 hour after charging. I've watched the pack on 5 minute
checks during charging and have seen it hit 15.2v at 4 amps, then
fall down to 13.8v when the rest of the pack is around 15.0 and the
current has fallen to 1 amp. In service it doesn't show a reduced
capacity. I suspect its getting dry and the acid concentration is now
starting to eat the plates alive. I suspect it will fail, I'm hoping
I can nurse it through next year (which will make it a 5 year life
despite charging abuse). For me working means I have to be able to
drive 15 less than kind miles (and the pack capacity was, at its
peak, 20 gentle miles).
I gotta say I like my Optimas. They are 4 years old now. I've never
had regs on them. I've used very unrecomended chargers (mostly a bad
boy plus a variac). I've overcharged them, undercharged them, and not
known what I was doing often enuf. I've even left the pack sitting
around 15v for as long as 24 hours - and seen them at 18v trying to
equalize them (I have some issues with a blind 2 amps for one hour).
They are my first EV pack. Somehow they still live!
Neon
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Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> That 84 amps output must play havoc with that 80 amp output fuse.
>
> Can you turn it down so it won't leave someone stranded by turning the amp
> knob up too high? Your other choice is to put 90 amp fuses into the buck
> enhancer models.
>
> Darned hot rodders.
> Always have to push the limits.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 5:43 PM
> Subject: Re: PFC20 vs Sparrow - there is hope
>
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > rich wrote:
> > >
> > > Who's gonna be the first PFC50 Sparrow owner??? it can charge a Sparrow
> > > at 65+ amps. For those nice 20 minute fill ups....
> > >
> > > ---
> > > I'm looking forward to the -50.
> > > BTW - best throughput to date has been:
> > >
> > > input=208vac x 40a
> > > output=180vdc x 20.8a =~ 3.7kwh
> > >
> > > BR,
> > > Ed
> >
> >
> > Ed, Joe and list
> >
> > Here are some amp numbers for a run of the line PFC50 Buck enhancer off
> > 208 VAC
> >
> > 208VAC 50.4 amps 220 VDC 43.6ADC 9592watts
> > 208VAC 50.4 191.7 47.9 9182
> > 225VAC 50.2 191.7 51.2 9815
> > 208.3 50.4 180.5 50.5 9115
> > 208.2 50.4 170.7 52.3 8927
> > 208.2 50.2 160.0 55.7 8912
> > 208.2 50.2 149.3 58.5 8675
> > 208.2 50.1 140.6 61.9 8703
> > 208.2 50.1 130.6 65.4 8541
> > 208.2 50.1 120.7 69.7 8412
> > 208.2 50.1 110.8 74.5 8254
> > 208.2 50.1 100.9 80.2 8092
> > 208 47.2 90.6 83.0 7519
> > 208.8 38.1 70.8 84.0 5947
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> > www.manzanitamicro.com
> > 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
> >
> >
Joe You havn't had the cover off a PFC50 Bucker in a couple of months...
I have 100 amp Little Fuse L50s-100 to be exact.
84 amps is not a limit or a hazzard.
Just a real I squared R load on the output side of the Charger!!!
That 100 amp nightmare is only 16 amps away.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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