EV Digest 2575
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Curious battery behavior.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) More on the Missing Zebra (Xebra)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by "tgleeman2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by "Bill Griffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
by "Brian D. Hall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: F250 Truck with AC system - no problem.
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) (re) introduction
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Hydrogen Fuel Cell / Battery Hybrid
by "Chris Crouch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Suzuki X-90 (Sidekick) Conversion..
by "Wesley R. Effner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Ebay Findings
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Curious battery behavior.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: F250 Truck with AC system - no problem.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: (re) introduction
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) ac gear box/was Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: (re) introduction
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Suzuki X-90 (Sidekick) Conversion..
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Sam Uzi wrote:
>
> > The evercell being cycled to death has reached 254 cycles today. The updated
> > graphic is available at the bottom of
> > http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm.
>
> if I may ask a couple of bonehead questions:
>
> each chart display hundreds of sequences; what is the relationship between
> sequences and cycles?
>
> > The latest capacity is 63.3 ahr (from an observed high of 83.2 ahr).
>
> you're deliberately abusing this battery to test it's limits, yes?
>
> how does the evercel compare to other batteries so far?
NO we are running tame cycles WAY under the rated limits of 250 amp of
discharge, and 58 amps charge.
The upper point is charge energy.
The lower point is power taken back out of the charged battery.
Errors and over and under charge mistakes and learning efforts are
visable. Note we have had power outages and broken test gear.
We are looking for honest light duty cycle life.
What makes you think we are abusing this M100-12?
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Every reg blinks. Lately though some of the batteries won't take anymore
charge and their voltage drops. Some batteries will keep climbing if
allowed. The regs keep that from happening. That's where the problem is.
I charge at 151.5v When some batteries drop below 10.1 the current has to
go somewhere and that some where is into the regs. I think lowering the
voltage might be in order. Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> Do all the regs blink if you leave the charger at a low level (~1 amp)
> overnight?
>
> When you get all the regs blinking, check the voltage setting on the regs
to
> make sure they are all set correctly.
>
> If a reg does not come on nor blink, then either the battery voltage is
too
> low (degraded battery or thermal runaway) or the reg setpoint is too high.
>
> If the reg comes on solid, either the charger is set too high or the load
is
> not drawing current.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
>
>
> > I've got about 1500 miles on the pack now. A mix of new and used Delphi
> 8v
> > batteries. The reg external loads here and there are hot. The
batteries
> > don't seem warm. 5 amps over 30 batteries. How hot can it get? ah but
> > that wouldn't be over 30 batteries. Only the ones that are still
> blinking.
> > Is this a job for one of those infrared temperature sensors? I have
never
> > had the Delphis working this good. I trashed a bunch in my motor cycle
> but
> > was only charging at 9.6v per battery. 10.1 to 10.2 is much better. I
> got
> > a bunch more used batteries. Hopefully I can make them last. Seems the
> > Delphis like gentle use. I took them 40 miles and the pack was only
down
> to
> > 123.72. It seems I took my previous car down to 118v all the time and
> only
> > went 20 miles with a pack half the size. I have a feeling I could go
100
> > miles with this vehicle if I kept it down to 45mph. Lawrence
Rhodes.....
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just spoke with John Cook at Barrett-Jackson, the auction house that handled the
auction of Johnson's cars. The Xebra did not sell. In fact it never made it to the
auction block. He wasn't sure why other than that it didn't run. It's not clear what
will happen to the car next but if anyone is interested in making an offer, they
should contact John Cook at 480-421-6694.
Steve
--- End Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
I am not keen on the inefficiencies of the belt systems. And most are not
very good in a regenerative braking environment. Many have slip clutches
built in.
So I am looking to have a geared transmission, if possible.
At 01:33 PM 2/5/2003, you wrote:
Why not look into one of those constant velocity transmissions, like on a
Honda Odyssey? Basically, it is two belts, and two pulleys that can go
from small to big (and big to small). They are lightweight, should be fine
for the HP you are talking about, and are simple. You would not need the
centrifugal clutch assembly - just the pulleys.
Yes, I know there is loss associated with the drag on ANY belt drive
system, that a well designed set of gears would minimize - but this would
be an off the shelf item, minimal weight, and simple. Just make sure to
put a good safety cage around the moving belts (otherwise it might grab
your pants, your fingers, or anything else in it's rapidly spinning path).
I don't know how much the loss from the friction would be offset by
letting you run the motor closer to a constant speed in it's "sweet spot".
I may try this on a dune-buggy project for the kids on grandpa's farm......
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Niessen
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:58 AM
Subject: Motorcycle Transmission
I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
motorcycle conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and
bearings? I need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have not
had any luck finding an existing transmission for my project. And to get
45mph and reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a direct
drive. Only looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't have to be
massive. But a little over-kill in the engineering is planned.
Gordon Niessen
If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are history.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry about the HTML.
I have thought about pulling the gears and shafts out of an old
transmission and having a machine shop build an enclosure. I don't want a
transmission that looks like it was hacked off a motor and welded to my
frame. It isn't like it will be hidden under a hood. But I will call
around to a few local shops and see if they have any old blown motors that
might have a working transmission I can tinker with. I still have the
transmission attached to my old 250cc engine, but I was planning on selling
that as it is in great shape.
At 02:06 PM 2/5/2003, you wrote:
Gordon Niessen wrote:
************
I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
motorcycle conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and
bearings? I need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have not
had any luck finding an existing transmission for my project. And to
get 45mph and reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a direct
drive. Only looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't have to be
massive. But a little over-kill in the engineering is planned.
************
Hi Gordon,
First of all, this came in as HTML. Didn't bother me, but it causes
problems with others' email software. Please post to the list in plain
text.
I've thought about your problem as well. Direct drive has a hard time
giving the acceleration one would expect from a motorcycle unless you're
willing to spend big bucks. A simple transmission could simplify things
greatly.
I've thought in terms of highway-capable bikes. For that power range,
maybe a Harley-Davidson Sportster transmission would work? (No idea,
I'm not a Harley guy.) For your power range the simplest thing might be
to go to a motorcycle wrecking yard and scrounge a dead 250-400 cc
two-stroke engine with a working transmission.
A two-stroke's trans is usually cast integrally with the engine (like
almost all motorcycles these days), but it's lubricant is separate.
That means you can cut away everything you don't need and have a
complete, self-contained transmission.
You can modify the clutch basket to make a hub that will connect to your
motor. An engine with a dry clutch will make sealing the input shaft a
non-problem. It will be five or six speeds, but that means you get to
pick the ones you want. If you want to minimize drag you could replace
gears with spacers and alter the shift mechanism to use only two gears.
Heck, with a decent transmission you might get much better than 45 mph!
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gordon
As a youngster I had a handfull of off road vehicles and one of them
had a Hodaka Ace 100cc engine on it. over the years I had collected
many spare parts to keep it running and had them torn apart many
times. I was always amazed at how simple the transmission was and how
well it worked.
Since buying my first electric scooter several years ago I have wanted
to add a transmission for the same reasons your seeking one. Using the
same concept as the hodaka transmission I think it would be fairly
easy to design a 2 or 3 speed transmission that could be very robust
and very small and light weight. I did some seracing around on the net
and found a really nice assembly drawing of the hodaka transmission at
http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/hodakatransassy75dpi.gif
In the drawing you will see the 5 gears which are all fixed on one
shaft which meshes with 5 gears which free wheel on the output shaft.
Notice the holes around the periphery of the output shaft and the
grooves in the inner races of the gears. The ball bearings in the
picture go in the holes on the output shaft and are forced into a gear
by the shift selector lever. when a particular gear is selected, 4
balls are moved outward to engage that gear and couple it rigidly to
the output shaft selecting that particular ratio. As I recall once you
were rolling you only had to relieve tension on the gears to shift
from one gear to another.
I can easliy envision an electric motor with the fixed gears right on
the end of the shaft and a housing with the rest of the transmission
in a housing attached to the endbell of the motor. This assembly could
be manually shifted with a cable or electrically shifted via a pic
monitoring motor speed, current, and throttle input automatically
keeping the motor rpm in the sweet spot!
While were dreaming, maybe Briggs and Stratton could add this to the
ETEK motor.
<dream mode OFF>
If your interested in pursuing this you can find parts for hodaka
engines on ebay and there are a few other online sources for them as
well ,you should be able to find them easily at google.com
Regards
Bill Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Niessen
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:58 AM
Subject: Motorcycle Transmission
I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
motorcycle conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and
bearings? I need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have
not had any luck finding an existing transmission for my project. And
to get 45mph and reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a
direct drive. Only looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't
have to be massive. But a little over-kill in the engineering is
planned.
Gordon Niessen
If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are history.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
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--- Begin Message ---
Bill Griffin wrote:
..
>
> I can easliy envision an electric motor with the fixed gears right on
> the end of the shaft and a housing with the rest of the transmission
> in a housing attached to the endbell of the motor. This assembly could
> be manually shifted with a cable or electrically shifted via a pic
> monitoring motor speed, current, and throttle input automatically
> keeping the motor rpm in the sweet spot!
>
> While were dreaming, maybe Briggs and Stratton could add this to the
> ETEK motor.
>
> <dream mode OFF>
You don't have to dream, this was done for quite a while with larger
motors: http://www.metricmind.com/misc/integr2.jpg
A "partner" Siemens talking about is Ballard, which use to
attach its gear box to Siemens 1PVxx motor (as on this photo) and
make A312V67 unit installed in Ford Ranger EVs.
Moreover, Siemens integrated not only gear box but the inverter
making physically one unit drivetrain (Chrysler Epic is made this way):
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/5134.jpg
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> What makes you think we are abusing this M100-12?
1) I'm an idiot who is still struggling to understand the tech
2) the use of the term "corpse" for the tested battery made me think that
it was a kill-it-to-see-what-happens test... dumb misassumption on my
part...
in any case, I was mostly curious what the term "cycle" represents, since
each of the cycles shown contains hundreds of sequences, with a sequence
described as either a charge or discharge...
and also, is the evercel performance good compared to other batteries? (I
don't have Excell, so I can't review the charts for other batteries)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:08 PM 1/27/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
It was some interest to see how a single motor will perform in a
truck towing 10,000 lb trailer. Earlier I sent out a link to the
results page, but didn't get a single comment on the list; not
even sure my email got on the list.
Anyway, the truck will perform just fine. Quick summary:
So, has there been any news/progress on the DC simulation of the truck
question?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since I have been off the list for awhile, thought I would introduce myself.
Hi! My name is Christopher Zach, live in Relay MD (right by Baltimore and
BWI airport). 34, wife, two kids, six cars in the driveway.
Currently I own a 94 Geo Prizm/US Electricar. It is a fascinating car; with
the batteries under the car there is little if any signs from the inside
that it's anything other than a normal car. Fits the whole family and
luggage without a problem or complaint.
It's equipped with a 50kw motor, 200amp/300 volt controller, a MagneCharger
port (I need to install the MagneCharger outside) and 50 little Hawker
batteries in two *long* strings of 25. Right now it's still on it's first
pack (yep, the one from 94) and I am learning a lot by gently nursing this
pack along. Over the fall I weeded out a number of bad batteries; will see
how things look in the spring before deciding on a pack replacement.
The fact that it runs with an eight year old pack that has been probably
sitting dead idle for four years speaks well of Hawker.
In addition, I also own an Elec-Trak E20 which has not been plugged into the
wall in about a year now. It's fully solar powered; details can be found on
my web site at http://www.crystel.com The elec-trak has completely replaced
my old Craftsman tractor, and to be honest probably does more good for the
environment than the Prizm.
My favorite thing about electrics: Pulling into the gas stations to check
the air in the tires. Least favorite is probably dropping the pack or
worrying about blowing up a battery.
I wouldn't mind offering my house as a waypoint if someone in MD needs an
emergency charge. Currently have 110 in the driveway; going to put 220/20amp
and the MagneCharger in for the Spring.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
Do you know where I can get a source stating that is what there opinion on
fuel cells were in 1965 thanks as well as the EVAA show in December. Thanks
for your effort. It just fits perfectly into a paper I am writing.
Chris Crouch
> Mark Hanson wrote:
> > The car manufacturers at the EVAA show in December said it would be
> > more like 30 years before fool cells and the infrastructure would be
> > in place.
>
> ... And 30 years ago, GM was displaying a fuel cell powered vehicle; a
> converted 1965 GM van. It used the type of fuel cells developed by NASA
> for the space program, high pressure H2 storage tanks, and an AC
> electric drive motor and inverter similar to today's EV1.
>
> They said then that such a vehicle would take "thirty years" to bring to
> market.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All:
Has anyone heard of converting a Suzuki X-90 to electric?
Shari Prange @ Electro Automotive has a generic kit that could
possibly work.
Don't want to 're-invent the wheel', if someone has already tried.
Thanks ahead of time.
Wes Effner
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guys,
The exact unit you require for this job can be found on the early 50cc motor
scooters (auto ones)
The Honda and Suzuki scooters use a simple chain drive 2 speed system with 2
centrifugal clutches, the first clutch engages the first gear and gets the
bike rolling and when sufficient speed is attained the second clutch engages
and by means of a one way clutch bearing system, over rides the first one
causing the bike to smoothly change gears.
Another simple method of achieving this would be to get a planet gear system
from an old car auto box, these are designed to do the same job and a
similar 2 gear output can be achieved from a single planet gear.
The motor bike box idea is ok if you have the space but when I look at mine
its too big to consider even for the larger ev projects im working on.
Another place to look for a small 2 speed gear box would be electric
appliances like drills etc, some of these will even have multi speed boxes
on them and I suspect are well able to take the sort of load you will be
applying.
An old angle grinder for instance will provide you with not only a 90 degree
drive but they are geared there as well.
While im here have any of you considered cam belts for drives, I notice you
all seem to know about the drag of using v belts but if you take the cover
off the front of an old motor you will find a nice array of pulleys in there
and the belts are cheap, quiet and clean without the drag of v belts.
Early Mitsubishi 2 litre's have 2 cam belts one is very short and only
drives a counter balance shaft, ideal for motor to gearbox connection.
Another place to look for drive system components is self propelled and ride
on lawn mowers.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just thought I'd share my ebay findings of this week:
1981 Vanguard CitiCar:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402512064&category=7250
SAFT Ni-Cad batteries, and their charger / discharger:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3309280620&category=36323
GEM vehicles:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402358924&category=6737
-Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might try the Acceptance/Float voltage technique.
That is where you charge up to an acceptance voltage of 151.5 for two hours
and then drop back to a lower float voltage until you need to use the
vehicle.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> Every reg blinks. Lately though some of the batteries won't take anymore
> charge and their voltage drops. Some batteries will keep climbing if
> allowed. The regs keep that from happening. That's where the problem is.
> I charge at 151.5v When some batteries drop below 10.1 the current has to
> go somewhere and that some where is into the regs. I think lowering the
> voltage might be in order. Lawrence Rhodes.........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:44 PM
> Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
>
>
> > Do all the regs blink if you leave the charger at a low level (~1 amp)
> > overnight?
> >
> > When you get all the regs blinking, check the voltage setting on the
regs
> to
> > make sure they are all set correctly.
> >
> > If a reg does not come on nor blink, then either the battery voltage is
> too
> > low (degraded battery or thermal runaway) or the reg setpoint is too
high.
> >
> > If the reg comes on solid, either the charger is set too high or the
load
> is
> > not drawing current.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> >
> >
> > > I've got about 1500 miles on the pack now. A mix of new and used
Delphi
> > 8v
> > > batteries. The reg external loads here and there are hot. The
> batteries
> > > don't seem warm. 5 amps over 30 batteries. How hot can it get? ah
but
> > > that wouldn't be over 30 batteries. Only the ones that are still
> > blinking.
> > > Is this a job for one of those infrared temperature sensors? I have
> never
> > > had the Delphis working this good. I trashed a bunch in my motor
cycle
> > but
> > > was only charging at 9.6v per battery. 10.1 to 10.2 is much better.
I
> > got
> > > a bunch more used batteries. Hopefully I can make them last. Seems
the
> > > Delphis like gentle use. I took them 40 miles and the pack was only
> down
> > to
> > > 123.72. It seems I took my previous car down to 118v all the time and
> > only
> > > went 20 miles with a pack half the size. I have a feeling I could go
> 100
> > > miles with this vehicle if I kept it down to 45mph. Lawrence
> Rhodes.....
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Uzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
> > The evercell being cycled to death has reached 254 cycles today. The
updated
> > graphic is available at the bottom of
> > http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm.
>
> if I may ask a couple of bonehead questions:
>
> each chart display hundreds of sequences; what is the relationship between
> sequences and cycles?
A charge is a sequence.
A discharge is another sequence.
If the machine broke during a discharge it counted as a sequence. When the
machine was repaired. the sequence was continued.
If the machine broke during a charge it counted as a sequence. When the
machine was repaired, it had to start with a discharge, therefore it was a
different sequence.
It was frustrating at the beginning because I could get so little energy in
and out of the battery. For example: the first cycle I put 3.5 ahr into the
battery and got 5.1 ahr out of it. This is curious since I got back more
than I put into it. The next cycle was just as strange; 14.9 in and 21.2
out. Then it reversed; 25 in and 14 out.
The battery had close to zero capacity when I got it. Should I discharge it
first and call that discharge 1 and the following charge is charge 1? Should
I charge it first and call that charge 1 and the following discharge is
discharge 1? I called them sequences to eliminate the debate about whether
discharge 1 was before or after charge 1.
> > The latest capacity is 63.3 ahr (from an observed high of 83.2 ahr).
>
> you're deliberately abusing this battery to test it's limits, yes?
No. We are measuring how many cycles it takes the battery to come down to
half of its original capacity. This count is complicated by this battery has
already seen some cycles in a car and the owner never bothered to count the
number of cycles he put on it before we got it.
Since we do not know the number of cycles before we got it, it is impossible
to tell where zero cycles began.
> how does the evercel compare to other batteries so far?
Stand by.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And this Epic rocked! I rode in the Epic back in 1996 on Chryslers test
track and it
was a very impressive vehicle. I could use one of these systems in my
TEVan!
When I win the lottery I'll be first in line to buy one Victor.
Rod
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Bill Griffin wrote:
..
I can easliy envision an electric motor with the fixed gears right on
the end of the shaft and a housing with the rest of the transmission
in a housing attached to the endbell of the motor. This assembly could
be manually shifted with a cable or electrically shifted via a pic
monitoring motor speed, current, and throttle input automatically
keeping the motor rpm in the sweet spot!
While were dreaming, maybe Briggs and Stratton could add this to the
ETEK motor.
<dream mode OFF>
You don't have to dream, this was done for quite a while with larger
motors: http://www.metricmind.com/misc/integr2.jpg
A "partner" Siemens talking about is Ballard, which use to
attach its gear box to Siemens 1PVxx motor (as on this photo) and
make A312V67 unit installed in Ford Ranger EVs.
Moreover, Siemens integrated not only gear box but the inverter
making physically one unit drivetrain (Chrysler Epic is made this way):
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/5134.jpg
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"John G. Lussmyer" wrote:
>
> At 06:08 PM 1/27/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >It was some interest to see how a single motor will perform in a
> >truck towing 10,000 lb trailer. Earlier I sent out a link to the
> >results page, but didn't get a single comment on the list; not
> >even sure my email got on the list.
> >
> >Anyway, the truck will perform just fine. Quick summary:
> ...
> So, has there been any news/progress on the DC simulation of the truck
> question?
If you're asking me, sorry, I no longer do DC stuff and have no models
for DC motors. Don't now if anyone attempted doing it to compare.
List?
Victor
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Now that seems like a very interesting way of shifting. The trick is to
get two gear sets that have the same combined radius's and provide the
required gear ratios. It should not be that difficult to create a drilled
shaft or the shifter rod. Though It is difficult to see from the picture
just how the part that pushes the ball bearings works.
I may check out ebay for an example. I can always resell it if I build my
own. As I do like the idea of creating a compact unit of the motor and
transmission. This should be shorter then my original idea which was going
to have one set of gears shift along a shaft to engage one and disengage
the other. Requiring an addition width of more then one gear.
I'll let you know how it works.
At 05:14 PM 2/5/2003, you wrote:
Gordon
As a youngster I had a handfull of off road vehicles and one of them
had a Hodaka Ace 100cc engine on it. over the years I had collected
many spare parts to keep it running and had them torn apart many
times. I was always amazed at how simple the transmission was and how
well it worked.
Since buying my first electric scooter several years ago I have wanted
to add a transmission for the same reasons your seeking one. Using the
same concept as the hodaka transmission I think it would be fairly
easy to design a 2 or 3 speed transmission that could be very robust
and very small and light weight. I did some seracing around on the net
and found a really nice assembly drawing of the hodaka transmission at
http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/hodakatransassy75dpi.gif
In the drawing you will see the 5 gears which are all fixed on one
shaft which meshes with 5 gears which free wheel on the output shaft.
Notice the holes around the periphery of the output shaft and the
grooves in the inner races of the gears. The ball bearings in the
picture go in the holes on the output shaft and are forced into a gear
by the shift selector lever. when a particular gear is selected, 4
balls are moved outward to engage that gear and couple it rigidly to
the output shaft selecting that particular ratio. As I recall once you
were rolling you only had to relieve tension on the gears to shift
from one gear to another.
I can easliy envision an electric motor with the fixed gears right on
the end of the shaft and a housing with the rest of the transmission
in a housing attached to the endbell of the motor. This assembly could
be manually shifted with a cable or electrically shifted via a pic
monitoring motor speed, current, and throttle input automatically
keeping the motor rpm in the sweet spot!
While were dreaming, maybe Briggs and Stratton could add this to the
ETEK motor.
<dream mode OFF>
If your interested in pursuing this you can find parts for hodaka
engines on ebay and there are a few other online sources for them as
well ,you should be able to find them easily at google.com
Regards
Bill Griffin
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon Niessen
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:58 AM
Subject: Motorcycle Transmission
I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
motorcycle conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and
bearings? I need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have
not had any luck finding an existing transmission for my project. And
to get 45mph and reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a
direct drive. Only looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't
have to be massive. But a little over-kill in the engineering is
planned.
Gordon Niessen
If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are history.
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Christopher Zach wrote:
> I wouldn't mind offering my house as a waypoint if someone in
> MD needs an emergency charge.
Careful what you say... there is going to be the Tour de Sol and also
the next Power of DC (hopefully) right near you :-)
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
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In the spirit of walk before you run, I am planning on starting with a
single speed setup. I am glad to hear of your experience, as I was not
expecting very acceptable performance. Given how most commercial scooters
seem constrained to a top end of 35mph, I figured it was all I could expect
from a direct drive. I don't need to go more the 45mph for my
commute. But I would not mind having enough pep to impress onlookers. :-)
At 08:39 PM 2/5/2003, you wrote:
We have built a number of motorcycles based on the E-tec (at 48 volts)
with single speed gearing,they have more than reasonable accerleration and
a top speed close to 50 mph.if you want faster , try 72 volts ( my 72 volt
bike is geared to go 85 mph and does the 1/4 mile in 14.7sec).Our
"E-vol",(48volts) based on BMX parts is scarry fast. I believe you would
only need a trans if you want to cruise on the freeway at 65mph.
Brian D. Hall
ThunderStruck Motors
I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric motorcycle
conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and bearings? I
need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have not had any luck
finding an existing transmission for my project. And to get 45mph and
reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a direct drive. Only
looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't have to be massive. But
a little over-kill in the engineering is planned.
Gordon Niessen
If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are history.
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That is a nice set up .. I guess it goes right to the drive shaft?
I had somebody asking me about that today (ac with no tranny) . dose that
have two speeds. do you need 2 speeds with 12000 rpm? can you still get that
set up.
I called DCP the other day to see about controllers and they are not making
any for cars. :-( any more. Maybe later but it didn't sound like any time
soon , You might get really busy soon .
>
> >You don't have to dream, this was done for quite a while with larger
> >motors: http://www.metricmind.com/misc/integr2.jpg
> >
> >A "partner" Siemens talking about is Ballard, which use to
> >attach its gear box to Siemens 1PVxx motor (as on this photo) and
> >make A312V67 unit installed in Ford Ranger EVs.
> >
> >Moreover, Siemens integrated not only gear box but the inverter
> >making physically one unit drivetrain (Chrysler Epic is made this way):
> >http://www.metricmind.com/misc/5134.jpg
> >
> >Victor
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Hi Christopher .
nice web site
You got it going on with the solar power ect.
Liked the look of that 944 Porsche. I have a 924 or the trobo that I
converted , its heavy but I really like the way it drives . Never drove a
gas one.
Steve Clunn
> Currently I own a 94 Geo Prizm/US Electricar. It is a fascinating car;
with
> the batteries under the car there is little if any signs from the inside
> that it's anything other than a normal car. Fits the whole family and
> luggage without a problem or complaint.
>
> It's equipped with a 50kw motor, 200amp/300 volt controller, a
MagneCharger
> port (I need to install the MagneCharger outside) and 50 little Hawker
> batteries in two *long* strings of 25. Right now it's still on it's first
> pack (yep, the one from 94) and I am learning a lot by gently nursing this
> pack along. Over the fall I weeded out a number of bad batteries; will see
> how things look in the spring before deciding on a pack replacement.
>
> The fact that it runs with an eight year old pack that has been probably
> sitting dead idle for four years speaks well of Hawker.
>
> In addition, I also own an Elec-Trak E20 which has not been plugged into
the
> wall in about a year now. It's fully solar powered; details can be found
on
> my web site at http://www.crystel.com The elec-trak has completely
replaced
> my old Craftsman tractor, and to be honest probably does more good for the
> environment than the Prizm.
>
> My favorite thing about electrics: Pulling into the gas stations to check
> the air in the tires. Least favorite is probably dropping the pack or
> worrying about blowing up a battery.
>
> I wouldn't mind offering my house as a waypoint if someone in MD needs an
> emergency charge. Currently have 110 in the driveway; going to put
220/20amp
> and the MagneCharger in for the Spring.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
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Unfortunately, so far I was able to get only 2 motors for these units,
and no inverters. But, stay tuned - by the time you win the lottery
I may get something else...
Victor
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> And this Epic rocked! I rode in the Epic back in 1996 on Chryslers test
> track and it
> was a very impressive vehicle. I could use one of these systems in my
> TEVan!
> When I win the lottery I'll be first in line to buy one Victor.
> Rod
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> >Bill Griffin wrote:
> >..
> >
> >
> >>I can easliy envision an electric motor with the fixed gears right on
> >>the end of the shaft and a housing with the rest of the transmission
> >>in a housing attached to the endbell of the motor. This assembly could
> >>be manually shifted with a cable or electrically shifted via a pic
> >>monitoring motor speed, current, and throttle input automatically
> >>keeping the motor rpm in the sweet spot!
> >>
> >>While were dreaming, maybe Briggs and Stratton could add this to the
> >>ETEK motor.
> >>
> >><dream mode OFF>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >You don't have to dream, this was done for quite a while with larger
> >motors: http://www.metricmind.com/misc/integr2.jpg
> >
> >A "partner" Siemens talking about is Ballard, which use to
> >attach its gear box to Siemens 1PVxx motor (as on this photo) and
> >make A312V67 unit installed in Ford Ranger EVs.
> >
> >Moreover, Siemens integrated not only gear box but the inverter
> >making physically one unit drivetrain (Chrysler Epic is made this way):
> >http://www.metricmind.com/misc/5134.jpg
> >
> >Victor
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Hi I have a Suzuki 125 electric.
It runs at 35 kph for 20 kilometers on 36 volts using 3 standard car
batteries.
Its easy to ride and handles ok.
I expect that with the right equipment this could go a lot better but I just
stuck what I had on the bike to try it.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
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