EV Digest 2576
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVs as an integral part of fraud (was: Perendev.co.za U.S.
Contact. Edwin Gray the answer.)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: F250 Truck with AC system - no problem.
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ebay Findings
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ebay Findings
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EVs as an integral part of fraud (was: Perendev.co.za U.S. Contact. Edwin
Gray the answer.)
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
by Henry Deaton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: DCP
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Better Braking
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Ebay Findings
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: DCP
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) "Fiamp" owner email "return to sender"
by "amadare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: DCP
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Better Braking
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Wheelhorse E141
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Ebay Findings
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DCP
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Ebay Findings
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Robin Reliant glider
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Wheelhorse E141
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DCP
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Better Braking
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Motorcycle rolling chassis
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) GEM in Arizona.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:53 PM 2/4/03, you wrote:
My feelings exactly. :) I'm willing to invest a little time to see if its
a scam or not.
Don't invest.
The reason these scams involve an EV is because it makes it more
complicated, NOT because an EV is a fundamental part of the over-unity (or
free energy) technology.
The shell game scam involves three shells and not just one shell.
If there were only one shell, you would quickly figure out that it was a
con, so there are three shells to make it complicated enough to keep you
putting in money for a while.
This is exactly why an EV is often made a part of an over-unity or
free energy scam. It should always ring alarm bells and raise red flags
when they use an EV to present some "new" over-unity device or free energy
device. If the device really worked, you would not need or want the
complication and expense of an EV to demonstrate it. The only reason you do
need an EV is to obscure a fraud.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the remainder of the report that I did not have time to type at the
time.
What we are finding out is:
1. The battery did make nameplate capacity early in the test.
2. The capacity seems to drop linearly with the number of cycles. Not like
other batteries that live a long time with full capacity and then die
quickly at the end.
3. The battery does not like to sit fully charged and unused. The charge
dissipates rather quickly with no load on the battery. a) This may be from a
unique self discharge problem that prompted the first user to remove this
battery from his car or b) This may be characteristic of this type of
battery.
4. If you need to leave the battery unused for a period of time, discharge
it before storing it. This is common practice for Nickel Cadmium and Silver
Zinc batteries.
5. The battery requires a minimum of 4 ampere hours of overcharge to be
fully charged. The manufacture recommended charge profile works fairly well
and does not need to be as precise as it is stated. What is essential is
that the first stage reaches 14 volts and the 4 ampere hour overcharge
requirement is met.
6. If the battery is left on trickle charge, the temperature goes up and the
voltage goes down indicating a thermal runaway. We have not discovered the
magic number for trickle charge that will not cause thermal runaway. This
needs further attention.
7. During the initiation charge, the battery will get hot (~90 to 100F) at
4 amps. If it does not get hot, the capacity is not higher on the
next cycle. 3 amps did not get it hot and no capacity increase was observed.
5 amps got it too hot. 4 amps seems to be the magic number for initiation
charge ON THIS BATTERY.
8. The battery sags a lot during discharge and goes quickly to 13.5 volts on
charge. The voltage stays fairly constant during charge. It is not like a
lead acid battery where the voltage indicates how close it is to completion
of charge. A taper charger like a bad boy charger will take too long to
charge these at the beginning and will cook them at the end. A charger with
good regulation is required to accurately charge them.
9. When the battery gets done charging, the overcharge energy (beyond the
required overcharge) is dissipated as heat and the battery will go into
thermal runaway. The charger algorithm MUST know when to shut off the
charger to avoid cooking the battery.
10. Working with a single battery eliminates the intricacies of charging a
long string. We are starting to understand the challenges of managing a long
string of these batteries. They are not as simple to charge as a long string
of flooded or AGM lead batteries. They are much closer to flooded NiCd cells
but they do not have the facilities to replace the lost water so
overcharging them on regular basis will dry them out with no way to replace
the water.
11. One cell spewed about a teaspoon of electrolyte during initiation charge
at 5 amps. There have been no other venting or spewing incidents.
12. The studs and nuts appear to be stainless steel and get noticeably hot
at 50 amps.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
> Comments inserted...
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Uzi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Evercell cycling test cycle 254 report
>
>
> > > The evercell being cycled to death has reached 254 cycles today. The
> updated
> > > graphic is available at the bottom of
> > > http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm.
> >
> > if I may ask a couple of bonehead questions:
> >
> > each chart display hundreds of sequences; what is the relationship
between
> > sequences and cycles?
>
> A charge is a sequence.
> A discharge is another sequence.
>
> If the machine broke during a discharge it counted as a sequence. When the
> machine was repaired. the sequence was continued.
>
> If the machine broke during a charge it counted as a sequence. When the
> machine was repaired, it had to start with a discharge, therefore it was a
> different sequence.
>
> It was frustrating at the beginning because I could get so little energy
in
> and out of the battery. For example: the first cycle I put 3.5 ahr into
the
> battery and got 5.1 ahr out of it. This is curious since I got back more
> than I put into it. The next cycle was just as strange; 14.9 in and 21.2
> out. Then it reversed; 25 in and 14 out.
>
> The battery had close to zero capacity when I got it. Should I discharge
it
> first and call that discharge 1 and the following charge is charge 1?
Should
> I charge it first and call that charge 1 and the following discharge is
> discharge 1? I called them sequences to eliminate the debate about whether
> discharge 1 was before or after charge 1.
>
> > > The latest capacity is 63.3 ahr (from an observed high of 83.2 ahr).
> >
> > you're deliberately abusing this battery to test it's limits, yes?
>
> No. We are measuring how many cycles it takes the battery to come down to
> half of its original capacity. This count is complicated by this battery
has
> already seen some cycles in a car and the owner never bothered to count
the
> number of cycles he put on it before we got it.
>
> Since we do not know the number of cycles before we got it, it is
impossible
> to tell where zero cycles began.
>
> > how does the evercel compare to other batteries so far?
>
> Stand by.
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:37 PM 2/5/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
"John G. Lussmyer" wrote:
>
> At 06:08 PM 1/27/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >It was some interest to see how a single motor will perform in a
> >truck towing 10,000 lb trailer. Earlier I sent out a link to the
> >results page, but didn't get a single comment on the list; not
> >even sure my email got on the list.
> >
> >Anyway, the truck will perform just fine. Quick summary:
> ...
> So, has there been any news/progress on the DC simulation of the truck
> question?
If you're asking me, sorry, I no longer do DC stuff and have no models
for DC motors. Don't now if anyone attempted doing it to compare.
Not you, but wasn't there another person who was going to come up with
performance information for a truck like that built with a DC system? I
can't find the messages right now where you guys were discussing battery,
tire, etc.. configuration.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Sam for doing this. It is good for us for
us to know what is out there. It gives us a reading on
the pulse of the EV market.
For the newbies on the EV List or lurking on the
EV List archives, know that sometimes long web addresses
(urls) wrap around which makes the link not work.
Just paste the rest of the url onto the end and it
should work.
I also hope someone (perhaps Sam) could troll the
ebay wannbe sites for EVs as well.
:-zzz
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:44 PM 2/5/2003 -0500, Sam Harper wrote:
SAFT Ni-Cad batteries, and their charger / discharger:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3309280620&category=36323
Auction ended, with 0 bids?
(Also, why did you put the extra space in the URL? It makes it not work.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Note I said I wanted to invest "time", a free commodity. If I lose an
hour or two and in the process I learn more about what is and isn't
possible with today's technology, good. I learned some, and I didn't
lose any money, and possibly have prevented others from doing so. Also
by experience, not everything is a fraud. As I said earlier, I will
not claim that this neither valid nor a fraud until I have evidence to
support either conclusion. Until then no money shall pass hands, but
ideas and questions will flow.
-Sam Harper
On Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 12:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
At 08:53 PM 2/4/03, you wrote:
My feelings exactly. :) I'm willing to invest a little time to see
if its a scam or not.
Don't invest.
The reason these scams involve an EV is because it makes it
more complicated, NOT because an EV is a fundamental part of the
over-unity (or free energy) technology.
The shell game scam involves three shells and not just one
shell. If there were only one shell, you would quickly figure out that
it was a con, so there are three shells to make it complicated enough
to keep you putting in money for a while.
This is exactly why an EV is often made a part of an
over-unity or free energy scam. It should always ring alarm bells and
raise red flags when they use an EV to present some "new" over-unity
device or free energy device. If the device really worked, you would
not need or want the complication and expense of an EV to demonstrate
it. The only reason you do need an EV is to obscure a fraud.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Gordon,
Brian has a good point. Without knowing more about your motorcycle plans it
is hard to know if you really need a transmission or not. Usually it's
cheaper and faster when your building an electric motorcycle to just use a
bigger motor with direct drive instead a transmission.
7 hp and 3500 rpm doesn't really tell the story on your power:
What motor are you using (type, model)?
What batteries?
What pack voltage?
What controller?
For instance, you can adjust the power characteristics of your electric
motorcycle by juggling pack voltage (higher-voltage = higher top speed) and
controller (more amps = more low-end grunt), with your gearing and motor.
You also might want to build a bike without a transmission first, leaving
space in the placement of components on the frame so you can add one later.
And, finally, there are small motorcycle transmissions available. You can
find old 4-speed transmissions from pre-unit British twins and singles that
are fairly small and should be easy to connect to. There are also 3-speed
motorcycle transmissions that were used on the even older Brit bikes. Do a
search for BSA or Triumph parts.
I've also heard of a type of speciallised track racing motorcycle in Europe
that uses a 2-speed transmission, maybe a Speedway bike or something. I
can't remember exactly what they call it.
In any case, if you're only looking at going 45 mph at the top end I
wouldn't think you'd really need a transmission. That is unless you've got
some super steep hills to climb or have some other specialized application
that really stresses the drive train at the low speeds.
Henry Deaton
SF, CA
At 06:39 PM 2/5/2003 -0800, you wrote:
We have built a number of motorcycles based on the E-tec (at 48 volts)
with single speed gearing,they have more than reasonable accerleration and
a top speed close to 50 mph.if you want faster , try 72 volts ( my 72 volt
bike is geared to go 85 mph and does the 1/4 mile in 14.7sec).Our
"E-vol",(48volts) based on BMX parts is scarry fast. I believe you would
only need a trans if you want to cruise on the freeway at 65mph.
Brian D. Hall
ThunderStruck Motors
I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric motorcycle
conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and bearings? I
need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have not had any luck
finding an existing transmission for my project. And to get 45mph and
reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a direct drive. Only
looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't have to be massive. But
a little over-kill in the engineering is planned.
Gordon Niessen
If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are history.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1sclunn wrote:
> I called DCP the other day to see about controllers and they are
> not making any for cars. :-( any more. Maybe later but it
> didn't sound like any time soon
huh? no more DCP? that can't be.
(or is he taking time off to design something to top Otmar? That could
be fun... I'll have my gigawatt flux capacitor waiting...)
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Auction only ran for a week.
9 batteries at 6v/block = 54v. No enough for much of an EV.
Also notice that they appear to be quite tall, probably about 10-11".
Probably someone interested could email the seller to arrange direct
purchase, but in light of the resent NiCad problems it might be risky.
-Ed T
-----Original Message-----
From: John G. Lussmyer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 8:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Ebay Findings
At 09:44 PM 2/5/2003 -0500, Sam Harper wrote:
>SAFT Ni-Cad batteries, and their charger / discharger:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3309280620&category=3632
3
Auction ended, with 0 bids?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had sombody come by with a bike (mountan bike 26' ) that had a 2hp( big
2hp app 30lbs) and 24v's of batts , It had a 300 amp golf cart controller on
it. while looking at it I commeneted that the wight/voltage ratio was the
same as my Porsche 400lbs/24v vs 4000lbs/240v (now if I had a 3000 amp
controller we'd be even). He's telling my how it can beat most cars at the
red lights and has had it up to 50mph. There was no transmission just a big
pully on the back wheel . I went for a ride around the block and the only
thing holding it back was me. Instead of the extra weight of the tranny you
could add another battery.
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry Deaton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
> Hi Gordon,
>
> Brian has a good point. Without knowing more about your motorcycle plans
it
> is hard to know if you really need a transmission or not. Usually it's
> cheaper and faster when your building an electric motorcycle to just use a
> bigger motor with direct drive instead a transmission.
>
> 7 hp and 3500 rpm doesn't really tell the story on your power:
>
> What motor are you using (type, model)?
>
> What batteries?
>
> What pack voltage?
>
> What controller?
>
> For instance, you can adjust the power characteristics of your electric
> motorcycle by juggling pack voltage (higher-voltage = higher top speed)
and
> controller (more amps = more low-end grunt), with your gearing and motor.
>
> You also might want to build a bike without a transmission first, leaving
> space in the placement of components on the frame so you can add one
later.
>
> And, finally, there are small motorcycle transmissions available. You can
> find old 4-speed transmissions from pre-unit British twins and singles
that
> are fairly small and should be easy to connect to. There are also 3-speed
> motorcycle transmissions that were used on the even older Brit bikes. Do a
> search for BSA or Triumph parts.
>
> I've also heard of a type of speciallised track racing motorcycle in
Europe
> that uses a 2-speed transmission, maybe a Speedway bike or something. I
> can't remember exactly what they call it.
>
> In any case, if you're only looking at going 45 mph at the top end I
> wouldn't think you'd really need a transmission. That is unless you've got
> some super steep hills to climb or have some other specialized application
> that really stresses the drive train at the low speeds.
>
> Henry Deaton
> SF, CA
>
>
>
>
> At 06:39 PM 2/5/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >We have built a number of motorcycles based on the E-tec (at 48 volts)
> >with single speed gearing,they have more than reasonable accerleration
and
> >a top speed close to 50 mph.if you want faster , try 72 volts ( my 72
volt
> >bike is geared to go 85 mph and does the 1/4 mile in 14.7sec).Our
> >"E-vol",(48volts) based on BMX parts is scarry fast. I believe you would
> >only need a trans if you want to cruise on the freeway at 65mph.
> >Brian D. Hall
> >ThunderStruck Motors
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
motorcycle
> >conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and bearings? I
> >need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have not had any luck
> >finding an existing transmission for my project. And to get 45mph and
> >reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a direct drive. Only
> >looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't have to be massive. But
> >a little over-kill in the engineering is planned.
> >
> >
> >Gordon Niessen
> >
> >If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are history.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon is my "neighbor" and good friend. Car
controllers simply aren't making him any money. He
has taken on an investor, and needs to ramp up
production hard on the golf cart line. He isn't going
anywhere, but needs to catch up and pay some bills.
He's a good guy with a super product, so I'm cutting
slack on this one (;-p And oh yes, he's apparently
got a new design which is same product, but in a
smaller case!
--- Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 1sclunn wrote:
> > I called DCP the other day to see about
> controllers and they are
> > not making any for cars. :-( any more. Maybe
> later but it
> > didn't sound like any time soon
>
> huh? no more DCP? that can't be.
> (or is he taking time off to design something to top
> Otmar? That could
> be fun... I'll have my gigawatt flux capacitor
> waiting...)
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S-10
> 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The email address listed on the Fiamp evalbum page
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/206.html is not valid. Anybody have an
update they can send me off list so that I may ask the owner a couple
questions?
Thanks
Bobby
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gordon Niessen wrote:
> In the spirit of walk before you run, I am planning on
> starting with a
> single speed setup. I am glad to hear of your experience, as
> I was not
> expecting very acceptable performance. Given how most
> commercial scooters
> seem constrained to a top end of 35mph, I figured it was all
> I could expect
> from a direct drive. I don't need to go more the 45mph for my
> commute. But I would not mind having enough pep to impress
> onlookers. :-)
I see you're getting lots of good advice on this. It's true that you
may not need a transmission for a mere 45 mph top end.
But starting with direct drive might not be the least effort approach.
IIRC, the bike you're using is a Suzuki 250 cc two-stroke triple? And
you're using a rather small motor? Maybe the easiest thing to do is not
to adapt a trans or direct drive to the motor. How about adapting the
motor to the trans?
Try hacking off the crankcase and attaching the electric motor in its
place. The mounting could be very simple, the only complexity might be
in making an adapter from the motor shaft to the primary drive sprocket.
If you're concerned about having a power plant that looks "hacked up", I
know from experience that a little attention to detail can make the
remains of the original casting look very presentable - even factory.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gordon Niessen wrote:
> I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
> motorcycle conversion... to get 45mph and reasonable acceleration
> is just not possible on a direct drive.
Note that virtually all scratch-built electric vehicles have only one
gear; golf carts, fork lifts, trains, on-road cars trucks and buses,
etc. There are good, sound engineering reasons for this. It's not that
you can't do it; it just means using a little bigger motor and
controller to make up for the lack of a transmission.
> I am not keen on the inefficiencies of the belt systems.
Their full load efficiency isn't bad. On a small vehicle with an
undersized motor, you're likely to run it at full power (or off) most of
the time anyway, so you probably wouldn't notice the lower part-load
efficiency of variable-speed belt transmission.
And, as has been pointed out, you can operate the motor at a more
optimal efficiency point with a variable-speed transmission. This is a
small, but measurable advantage.
> not very good in a regenerative braking environment. Many have slip
> clutches built in.
Though, this is not always true, and if present, can be defeated.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
DCP is very alive an' well, glad to say. They fixed the Cap. charging
circuit in my Raptur The morning it arrived, had it out THAT day! True On
Road stuff is a hobby, no money making , yet. Golf Cart controllers are
paying the bills, there, keeping the lites on, but their real love is on
road stuff. I was told to stay tuned ,as they are working on a NEW Car
controller, smaller and lighter than the existing Rapters. Well, judging by
my present Rapture(Raptur) it' will be dynamite.
Guess the ones that are out there are Gold, til , and EVen after, the
new ones hit the street, Trolling E bay and EV used part lists will hafta do
for now? The fellow at DCP I spoke with, wasn;'t Damon, that they had Sep
Ex'es on the drawing boards, were looking for a motor builder. I Said" DCP,
Meet Warfield Electric, and tried my matchmaking skills<g>! Now THAT would
be a great team, a higher voltage Sep Ex, and Howbout throwing in a charger,
too. Don't let your sillycon loaf, while plugged in, and he said " Power
Facter Controlled" That made my day, week! My dream of getting a big box
with EVerything ya need, motor, controller and charger in one . Hook up the
leads here an' there and yur off! Everything as a two piece unit. Motor,
that round thing, and the pretty green or purple box, that duz everything
else! Guess if I won the Powerball, I could put the bux behind it!? Everyone
in the tech side seems to live Out West in Or Wa or CA? Not much from the
Least(East) Coast. Sigh. So we Easterners do our pilgrimage out West EVery
year.
On that subject. Woodburn? This year? When, or if it isn't Woodburn, any
other local? Too early to ask, I guess?
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:53 AM
Subject: Re: DCP
> 1sclunn wrote:
> > I called DCP the other day to see about controllers and they are
> > not making any for cars. :-( any more. Maybe later but it
> > didn't sound like any time soon
>
> huh? no more DCP? that can't be.
> (or is he taking time off to design something to top Otmar? That could
> be fun... I'll have my gigawatt flux capacitor waiting...)
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S-10
> 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments interspersed.
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I noticed on my previous Electro-Metro that the front disks require
> more effort to stop than the rear shoes. The proportioning valve
> was thus limiting pressure to the rear wheels so I removed the
> pressure regulator and the car stopped better.
The car may stop more easily at light braking levels, but may stop
worse at heavy levels. The self energizing effect of drum brakes
makes it easier to stop, but now the rears will lock prematurely. It
would probably be better to put in an adjustable braking bias
proportioning valve, and do some tests.
> I'm thinking of doing this to the Tracker but was wondering if
> there was more "grabby" material for the caliper pads and shoe
> brakes. I've waisted time and money at various auto stores that
> claim brake pads "heavy duty" or Heavy Dutiest" when it's just B.S.
"Heavy Duty" may mean "long lasting" in this instance, but hard and
long lasting pads tend to not stop as well. This is probably a good
question for the Suzuki enthusiasts' web sites.
> It's interesting to note that my ol Ford Ranger with manual brakes
> (front disks and rear drums also) stops on a dime with 5000 lbs
> total weight vehicle & load. It has similar master piston diameter
> and wheel diameter shoes & wheel cilanders as the Tracker. Anybody
> know what the secret is to beefing up brakes?
Is the diameter of the disks and drums larger? Are the drums wider?
Are the pads larger? These all can give addition mechanical
advantage.
One more thought, sometimes brake line swelling limits braking
effectiveness. Some people have reported improved braking by going to
steel braided lines.
You also might want to look into a braking dynometer. These are used
in our annual vehicle tests in Utah. One found my car's rear brakes
were hardly stopping at all, the fronts were doing all the work. Both
rear brakes had frozen, replacing the parts markedly improved my
stopping.
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FYI: There is a Wheelhorse E141 Electric tractor for sale on ebay. Item
#2305803926. It's in Norwalk, Ohio, a little too far for me. One day left
on the auction and no bids yet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce wrote:
For the newbies on the EV List or lurking on the
EV List archives, know that sometimes long web addresses
(urls) wrap around which makes the link not work.
This is easy to fix for most e-mail readers. If the web addresses has
<> around it then most readers correctly keep it together, even if
its so long that it has to wrap.
Ebay findings:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402512064&category=7250>
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3309280620&category=36323>,
bidding on this has closed :-(
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402358924&category=6737>
Thanx Sam Harper, I think this is a valuable service to the EV list.
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
>
> Damon is my "neighbor" and good friend. Car
> controllers simply aren't making him any money. He
> has taken on an investor, and needs to ramp up
> production hard on the golf cart line. He isn't going
> anywhere, but needs to catch up and pay some bills.
> He's a good guy with a super product, so I'm cutting
> slack on this one (;-p And oh yes, he's apparently
> got a new design which is same product, but in a
> smaller case!
>
> --- Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 1sclunn wrote:
> > > I called DCP the other day to see about
> > controllers and they are
> > > not making any for cars. :-( any more. Maybe
> > later but it
> > > didn't sound like any time soon
> >
> > huh? no more DCP? that can't be.
> > (or is he taking time off to design something to top
> > Otmar? That could
> > be fun... I'll have my gigawatt flux capacitor
> > waiting...)
> >
> > _________
> > Jim Coate
> > 1992 Chevy S-10
> > 1970s Elec-Trak E20
> > http://www.eeevee.com
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
So for the time being.... Otmar is the only one making controllers
larger that Curtii.
This is now a wide open market for anyone with a reliable affordable DC
controller.
Damon is taking off 18 months or so to do golf cart controllers, in
volumes that are staggering.
He says he will be back.... but 18 months is almost professional
suiside.
This is the most foolish marketing mistake that I have seen him do.
I have advised him not to. But cashflow is the back breaker here.
Otmar's 1K Zillas will be the only thing in the 1000 amp class. I am
pretty sure Otmar can't make 12 a month and still maintain his sanity.
I am burried with Charger orders and Development.
I have plans, good ideas and proven hardware. but NO time.
I might have to do somthing to keep the high voltage market alive for
High voltage chargers.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NEV for sale.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402468978&cat
egory=6472 Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Harper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 6:44 PM
Subject: Ebay Findings
> Just thought I'd share my ebay findings of this week:
> 1981 Vanguard CitiCar:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402512064&category=7250
> SAFT Ni-Cad batteries, and their charger / discharger:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3309280620&category=36323
> GEM vehicles:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
> eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402358924&category=6737
>
> -Sam
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For 1700 bucks this might make a great glider. Lawrence Rhodes....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402271928&cat
egory=7247
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alright, that's enough!!
Why is it every single time one of these comes up it's 500 flipping miles or
more away?
I honestly think the universe is toying with me ;)
Seriously tho,
does anyone in the REASONABLY Near Charlotte, NC area have one of these for
sale?
I have a 12 acre farm that has about 2 acres (+-) of "lawn" that something
like this would be perfect for.
Any suggestions?
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
I bet the human brain is a kludge. - Marvin Minsky
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Wheelhorse E141
FYI: There is a Wheelhorse E141 Electric tractor for sale on ebay. Item
#2305803926. It's in Norwalk, Ohio, a little too far for me. One day left
on the auction and no bids yet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
>> Damon is my "neighbor" and good friend. Car
>> controllers simply aren't making him any money.
Rich Rudman wrote:
> So for the time being... Otmar is the only one making controllers
> larger that Curtii.
>
> Damon is taking off 18 months or so to do golf cart controllers...
> I have plans, good ideas and proven hardware. but NO time.
Silly question time -- do you think Damon would (or should) license his
controllers to someone else to build? This produces some revenue stream
to him, without requiring him to actually build them. And, the license
could be good for a fixed time period (like that 18 months) so he can
build them again himself if he so desired.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
>
> Comments interspersed.
>
> --- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I noticed on my previous Electro-Metro that the front disks require
> > more effort to stop than the rear shoes. The proportioning valve
> > was thus limiting pressure to the rear wheels so I removed the
> > pressure regulator and the car stopped better.
>
> The car may stop more easily at light braking levels, but may stop
> worse at heavy levels. The self energizing effect of drum brakes
> makes it easier to stop, but now the rears will lock prematurely. It
> would probably be better to put in an adjustable braking bias
> proportioning valve, and do some tests.
>
> > I'm thinking of doing this to the Tracker but was wondering if
> > there was more "grabby" material for the caliper pads and shoe
> > brakes. I've waisted time and money at various auto stores that
> > claim brake pads "heavy duty" or Heavy Dutiest" when it's just B.S.
>
> "Heavy Duty" may mean "long lasting" in this instance, but hard and
> long lasting pads tend to not stop as well. This is probably a good
> question for the Suzuki enthusiasts' web sites.
>
> > It's interesting to note that my ol Ford Ranger with manual brakes
> > (front disks and rear drums also) stops on a dime with 5000 lbs
> > total weight vehicle & load. It has similar master piston diameter
> > and wheel diameter shoes & wheel cilanders as the Tracker. Anybody
> > know what the secret is to beefing up brakes?
>
> Is the diameter of the disks and drums larger? Are the drums wider?
> Are the pads larger? These all can give addition mechanical
> advantage.
>
> One more thought, sometimes brake line swelling limits braking
> effectiveness. Some people have reported improved braking by going to
> steel braided lines.
>
> You also might want to look into a braking dynometer. These are used
> in our annual vehicle tests in Utah. One found my car's rear brakes
> were hardly stopping at all, the fronts were doing all the work. Both
> rear brakes had frozen, replacing the parts markedly improved my
> stopping.
>
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Well the heavy duty set that I got for my 98 3.0 liter Ranger means they
are high metal content, rough service pads.
I am enjoying the brutal fact that my truck's brakes grab harder as
they heat up, In fact after the first pulse they act just like High
performance Mustang brakes.
Funny thing... I used to race turbo Stangs.
With the ABS system, and these pads I bet I can out brake some pretty
aggresive street cars. Of course Practice counts. Like most of
"Madman's" Stuff it only works right when you try to pound the Crap out
of it. If I have a long stint of Whimpy braking... The Back drum brakes
Glaze over on me. I thought I wore the shoes right off it a year ago.
When I ripped it apart, the shoes were in perfect shape, except for the
shinny looking surface. I was amazed. They I took it out and set the
Ebrake, and selected 2nd gear and tromped on it for about 5 miles. There
was smoke billowing out of the rear Wheel wells and folks were honking
at me in traffic. I carfully let them cool without setting the E-brake.
No brake grab, I can let go of the strearing and drive the brakes into
ABS modulation.
The other end the front, I swapped in new front pads since they were
really in need. I had 5 grades to select from. Stock, HD Organic,
Organic semi metalic, Heavy duty metalic and Ceramic. I went with grade
3 Organic Semimetalic. They surprise with REALLY good braking, but the
first grad on cold rotors takes more pedal effort than expected.
The story I hear on the Ceramic is they wear your rotors pretty fast,
but FADE is totaly non existant.
I had Carbon Metalics on the Turbo Crapi, The rotors squeeked and the
brake bias was a bit nasty to deal with, I had to do the proprotioning
valve swap from a SVO mustang, since that's the car I swiped the brakes
from. Carbon Matalics can do multi 130 mph to zero stops without fade
and they light up the night with sparks and glowing rotors while doing
it. As I remeber I could out brake Joe by a few 0.01 Gs with my brakes
on the Crapi Stang. He had the Mustang from HELL with a 460 and a C6
with over 500 Hp. displacemnt VS Boost. Boost lost by a few hundred
Horsepower. On these street toys Brakes were a major factor in staying
alive. We ran Road racing and Autocrossing with them.
Goldie has the most agressive brakes I have ever owned for the size of
the Car. Thanks to Paul Compton for finding them and selecting the Pads
for me. I think I could stand Goldie on her Nose if I really wanted to.
80 to zero in a few hundred ft, I can take the first turn around at
Woodburn from full amps at the last light.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402191769n
Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402617756&cat
egory=6737
--- End Message ---
