EV Digest 2577
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) where to find electric vehicles on ebay.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Suzuki X-90 (Sidekick) Conversion..
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Better Braking
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: DCP
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Free Tech paper "Do It Right The First Time"
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) RE: DCP
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission/Performance at 48v
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Curious battery behavior.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DCP
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: F250 Truck with AC system - no problem.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: DCP
by "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Better Braking
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Better Braking
by "George Tylinski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: DCP / New Z1K Controller from Cafe Electric llc.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) OT: Metal suppliers
by Keith Richtman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: ac gear box/was Re: Motorcycle Transmission
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Wheelhorse E141
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: DCP
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Motorcycle rolling chassis
by "Crabb, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: F250 Truck with AC system - no problem.
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: DCP
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: DCP / New Z1K Controller from Cafe Electric llc.
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) New Controllers from Cafe Electric
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Better Braking
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: DCP
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Wheelhorse E141
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Battery warmers: Thoughts
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
http://ebay.com/ebaymotors/ check: Miscellaneous, check on the pull down
menu browse cars by make, A-M and N-Z.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe this vehicle is a 2 seat, 4 or 2 wheel drive vehicle. Lawrence
Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: Suzuki X-90 (Sidekick) Conversion..
> Hi I have a Suzuki 125 electric.
>
> It runs at 35 kph for 20 kilometers on 36 volts using 3 standard car
> batteries.
>
> Its easy to ride and handles ok.
>
> I expect that with the right equipment this could go a lot better but I
just
> stuck what I had on the bike to try it.
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ford advertised the Fiesta could stop 60 to 0 in 3.3 seconds --
that's an average of 0.8 g's. Pretty good for an econocar on street
tires.
I'd take the words "Heavy Duty" at Pep Boys with a grain of salt!
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Goldie has the most agressive brakes I have ever owned for the
> size of
> the Car. Thanks to Paul Compton for finding them and selecting the
> Pads
> for me. I think I could stand Goldie on her Nose if I really wanted
> to.
> 80 to zero in a few hundred ft, I can take the first turn around at
> Woodburn from full amps at the last light.
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Bob Bath wrote:
> >> Damon is my "neighbor" and good friend. Car
> >> controllers simply aren't making him any money.
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > So for the time being... Otmar is the only one making controllers
> > larger that Curtii.
> >
> > Damon is taking off 18 months or so to do golf cart controllers...
> > I have plans, good ideas and proven hardware. but NO time.
>
> Silly question time -- do you think Damon would (or should) license his
> controllers to someone else to build? This produces some revenue stream
> to him, without requiring him to actually build them. And, the license
> could be good for a fixed time period (like that 18 months) so he can
> build them again himself if he so desired.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Yea that might work.
But there are a lot of things that should be improved. The guts to the
Raptor/Rex didn't change much in the 5 years that they were buildt.
Damon knows this and will be doing a new and improved product as soon as
he has time.
The question is the time factor.
I don't think anybody would pay for the old License.
I also don't feel that I would have to... I just wouldn't.
There are assembly tricks that the faint of heart should best stay away
from, and these and some other assembly procedures make cloning DCP
controllers unlikely.
But yes I could.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This paper details the 4 major steps from deciding to build an EV to
installation and testing. It was presented with Seth Murray, a high school
student, at NESEA's Energy in Schools Conference on November 14-15, 2002.
Seth converted an S10 and entered the ATdS winning a number of awards. The
email paper has links to Seth's pictures showing S10 construction, the ATdS
race, and how he survived a major accident.
A free copy of "Do It Right the First Time" is available from
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Vehicles of America, Inc. (EVA) is the leader in EV Safety with the
use of Anderson SBX connectors, the First Inertia switch, dual contactors,
and more. A paper describing safety is available also free. Its title is
"Safety First".
Just email your request to -------- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please do not send your request to the EV Digest.
We send our catalog with all technical paper requests.
"Anyone can build an EV - but building great EVs
requires experience and engineering."
Bob Batson P.E.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Free Offers at Home Page
www.EV-America.com
Electric Vehicles of America, Inc. (EVA)
Tel# 603-569-2100
Fax# 603-569-2900
11 Eagle Trace
P.O Box 2037
Wolfeboro, NH 03894
***********************************
Authorized Distributor for Advanced DC Motors,
Curtis and ALLTRAX Controllers,
Rebuilt Curtis controllers available at Discount
Albright Contactors, and other EV component manufacturers.
Free catalog. Largest EV Component supplier in the East
Electric cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, ski-dos, and more.
*******************************************
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That would be great for Evers who will buy 'em, but I understand there
are some proprietary things in there. I've also peered inside a T-Rex
and seen quite a bit of Air Sculpture in there that may not be ready for
simple production (such that it really works).
They (All-Trax) are working on a high power controller in the background
(version of the All-Trax Axe?) which will in fact be sealed (yeah!!!),
more programmable, and apparently very efficient. They hope to make
these after becoming profitable in the lower-power industry. Unknown
time line (at least 6 months from now).
Too bad, DCP put Auburn out of business (or so it appeared to me) then
had to bow out anyway...
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:09 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: DCP
>
>
> Bob Bath wrote:
> >> Damon is my "neighbor" and good friend. Car
> >> controllers simply aren't making him any money.
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > So for the time being... Otmar is the only one making controllers
> > larger that Curtii.
> >
> > Damon is taking off 18 months or so to do golf cart
> controllers... I
> > have plans, good ideas and proven hardware. but NO time.
>
> Silly question time -- do you think Damon would (or should)
> license his controllers to someone else to build? This
> produces some revenue stream to him, without requiring him to
> actually build them. And, the license could be good for a
> fixed time period (like that 18 months) so he can build them
> again himself if he so desired.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -
> Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Lectra with an A89. I don't have near the power you are getting
out of the ETek. Seems they are closely rated. I have it geared to go max
40mph. It keeps up with the cars sort of and climbs hills ok but just feels
a little gutless. Is it possible that I can adjust my brushes to get a
little more power out of it or is the A89 at 48v pushing 720 pounds not that
fast on a one speed? Am I getting the performance I should expect or should
it do better? I was thinking that at 72v and a one speed it might do 60 or
better and have better hill climbing. It is dependable. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry Deaton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
> Hi Gordon,
>
> Brian has a good point. Without knowing more about your motorcycle plans
it
> is hard to know if you really need a transmission or not. Usually it's
> cheaper and faster when your building an electric motorcycle to just use a
> bigger motor with direct drive instead a transmission.
>
> 7 hp and 3500 rpm doesn't really tell the story on your power:
>
> What motor are you using (type, model)?
>
> What batteries?
>
> What pack voltage?
>
> What controller?
>
> For instance, you can adjust the power characteristics of your electric
> motorcycle by juggling pack voltage (higher-voltage = higher top speed)
and
> controller (more amps = more low-end grunt), with your gearing and motor.
>
> You also might want to build a bike without a transmission first, leaving
> space in the placement of components on the frame so you can add one
later.
>
> And, finally, there are small motorcycle transmissions available. You can
> find old 4-speed transmissions from pre-unit British twins and singles
that
> are fairly small and should be easy to connect to. There are also 3-speed
> motorcycle transmissions that were used on the even older Brit bikes. Do a
> search for BSA or Triumph parts.
>
> I've also heard of a type of speciallised track racing motorcycle in
Europe
> that uses a 2-speed transmission, maybe a Speedway bike or something. I
> can't remember exactly what they call it.
>
> In any case, if you're only looking at going 45 mph at the top end I
> wouldn't think you'd really need a transmission. That is unless you've got
> some super steep hills to climb or have some other specialized application
> that really stresses the drive train at the low speeds.
>
> Henry Deaton
> SF, CA
>
>
>
>
> At 06:39 PM 2/5/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >We have built a number of motorcycles based on the E-tec (at 48 volts)
> >with single speed gearing,they have more than reasonable accerleration
and
> >a top speed close to 50 mph.if you want faster , try 72 volts ( my 72
volt
> >bike is geared to go 85 mph and does the 1/4 mile in 14.7sec).Our
> >"E-vol",(48volts) based on BMX parts is scarry fast. I believe you would
> >only need a trans if you want to cruise on the freeway at 65mph.
> >Brian D. Hall
> >ThunderStruck Motors
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I need to build a simple two speed transmission for an electric
motorcycle
> >conversion. Does anyone have a good source for gears and bearings? I
> >need to have a ratio of about 5:1 and 2:1. I just have not had any luck
> >finding an existing transmission for my project. And to get 45mph and
> >reasonable acceleration is just not possible on a direct drive. Only
> >looking at about 7hp and 3500 rpm, so it doesn't have to be massive. But
> >a little over-kill in the engineering is planned.
> >
> >
> >Gordon Niessen
> >
> >If you are not on the bleeding edge, you are history.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like that idea. Float means 1 amp or less. Right? Thanks. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> You might try the Acceptance/Float voltage technique.
>
> That is where you charge up to an acceptance voltage of 151.5 for two
hours
> and then drop back to a lower float voltage until you need to use the
> vehicle.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
>
>
> > Every reg blinks. Lately though some of the batteries won't take
anymore
> > charge and their voltage drops. Some batteries will keep climbing if
> > allowed. The regs keep that from happening. That's where the problem
is.
> > I charge at 151.5v When some batteries drop below 10.1 the current has
to
> > go somewhere and that some where is into the regs. I think lowering the
> > voltage might be in order. Lawrence Rhodes.........
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:44 PM
> > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> >
> >
> > > Do all the regs blink if you leave the charger at a low level (~1 amp)
> > > overnight?
> > >
> > > When you get all the regs blinking, check the voltage setting on the
> regs
> > to
> > > make sure they are all set correctly.
> > >
> > > If a reg does not come on nor blink, then either the battery voltage
is
> > too
> > > low (degraded battery or thermal runaway) or the reg setpoint is too
> high.
> > >
> > > If the reg comes on solid, either the charger is set too high or the
> load
> > is
> > > not drawing current.
> > >
> > > Joe Smalley
> > > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > > Fiesta 48 volts
> > > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:19 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> > >
> > >
> > > > I've got about 1500 miles on the pack now. A mix of new and used
> Delphi
> > > 8v
> > > > batteries. The reg external loads here and there are hot. The
> > batteries
> > > > don't seem warm. 5 amps over 30 batteries. How hot can it get? ah
> but
> > > > that wouldn't be over 30 batteries. Only the ones that are still
> > > blinking.
> > > > Is this a job for one of those infrared temperature sensors? I have
> > never
> > > > had the Delphis working this good. I trashed a bunch in my motor
> cycle
> > > but
> > > > was only charging at 9.6v per battery. 10.1 to 10.2 is much better.
> I
> > > got
> > > > a bunch more used batteries. Hopefully I can make them last. Seems
> the
> > > > Delphis like gentle use. I took them 40 miles and the pack was only
> > down
> > > to
> > > > 123.72. It seems I took my previous car down to 118v all the time
and
> > > only
> > > > went 20 miles with a pack half the size. I have a feeling I could
go
> > 100
> > > > miles with this vehicle if I kept it down to 45mph. Lawrence
> > Rhodes.....
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did anyone else NOT receive the original post in this thread, the one from
Steve Clunn? Jim Coate's is the first one I have.
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"John G. Lussmyer" wrote:
>
> Not you, but wasn't there another person who was going to come up with
> performance information for a truck like that built with a DC system? I
> can't find the messages right now where you guys were discussing battery,
> tire, etc.. configuration.
This was Peter, who challenged me to invest half of Saturday
to demonstrate AC performance :-D
He said he can do it, but it won't be too accurate. He never
promised he *will* do it though. I wish he or someone else did it for
the benefit of the list, at least with Uve's calc for lack of
better way.
Peter's message you can't locate:
..........
> Last thing - any guess for a rolling resistance (with and without
> trailer) of this 8 ton beast.
Assuming you are looking for a coefficient, How does 0.015 sound?
>
> Do you have any performance numbers for single or dual DC motors?
> Like time to 10 mph, 30 mph and 50 mph on flat, and max grade it
> can handle on each gear (with/without trailer)?
I have some spread sheets and of course Uve's web site. Should be able
to come up with a reasonable approximation.
What kind of grades were you thinking of? Say 0%, 3% and 5% to keep it
simple or do you want to do 1% to 7% in 1% increments?
> So we have base line to compare to. I'll do simulation for double
> string of 28 optimas, you come up with numbers for 14 optima
> quadruplets (168V nom, better suitable for DC). Wh stored is equal.
>
Sounds good.
> Also let's do the range calc for say 50 mph unloaded and 40 mph
> fully loaded. Fair? If you want other conditions, please specify.
>
Fair enough, also calculate maximum speed up an incline for whichever
grades you choose.
> I think list would benefit knowing results of both options.
> Since mail limiting factor here is battery, the choice of the
> system won't have as much impact as one could expect, but will see.
> No more guesses.
>
Only thing is that I can't give accurate acceleration figures. The math
to do it properly and the programming code derived from it makes my
head hurt :-(.
I can estimate it by calculating for a constant HP, but that's not
really accurate.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Did anyone else NOT receive the original post in this thread, the
> one from
> Steve Clunn? Jim Coate's is the first one I have.
David, the message came through on my machine 2/26 at 12:21 AM. Subject
was:
"ac gear box/was Re: Motorcycle Transmission"
-Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It sounds like you need the services of a good brake mechanic. Something
is obviously wrong and needs to be repaired before you or someone else
gets hurt. I have a Tracker similar to yours except gasoline powered.
Its brakes work well and can lock the wheels with moderate pedal
pressure. Conversion to electric would increase pedal effort only in
proportion to the weight increase and it should still be reasonable.
I wonder if your power brake booster is working well and if your vacuum
pump develops enough vacuum.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:29 AM
Subject: Better Braking
I was thinking of adding more batteries to my Geo Tracker but even with the
power brakes it is impossible to lock up the wheels on a panic stop.
I noticed on my previous Electro-Metro that the front disks require more
effort to stop than the rear shoes. The proportioning valve was thus
limiting pressure to the rear wheels so I removed the pressure regulator and
the car stopped better.
I'm thinking of doing this to the Tracker but was wondering if there was
more "grabby" material for the caliper pads and shoe brakes. I've waisted
time and money at various auto stores that claim brake pads "heavy duty" or
Heavy Dutiest" when it's just B.S.
It's interesting to note that my ol Ford Ranger with manual brakes (front
disks and rear drums also) stops on a dime with 5000 lbs total weight
vehicle & load. It has similar master piston diameter and wheel diameter
shoes & wheel cilanders as the Tracker. Anybody know what the secret is to
beefing up brakes?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Ranger was designed to operate well while carrying a heavy load, the
Tracker wasn't. The reason removing the prop valve worked is probably
that you've significantly increased the proportion of weight on the rear
axle and/or lowered the CG, both of which would give the rear more
traction under deceleration. The prop valve limits the hydraulic
pressure above a certain point to prevent the rears from locking up as
braking g's increase and weight is transferred to the front axle. If the
rears lock up, there's a high propensity for the tail to come around -
not at all good.
I have no knowledge of power brake servos, so I can't suggest anything
for troubleshooting that.
You should probably have the whole braking system checked out (PERFECTLY
bled with all fresh fluid, good pad condition, brake lines not clogged
(or cracked, and should not collapse much if any when pinched), no
leakage). If the pedal bottoms and you've not locked up, there's very
likely something basic gone wrong... Once it's healthy, if you still
need to, experiment with different front pads. An adjustable prop valve
will allow you to keep from locking the rears first no matter what
combination of pads and shoes you end up with. The valve should be about
$40 (Wilwood) but a lot of trial and error with pads/shoes gets
expensive. Keep in mind that the ideal balance changes with payload and
road surface, so be conservative in terms of preventing rear lockup.
There are "high friction coefficient" materials out there (grabby) that
that will reduce brake pedal effort, but the trade off is lower
sensitivity. Fade/heat capacity is not your problem (yet) if they won't
even lock up initially.
Steel braided brake lines increase the stiffness of the hydraulic volume
so can give you a harder pedal (less travel). They usually are Teflon
lined rather than rubber, which swells and cracks with age.
- GT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Hanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:29 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Better Braking
>
>
> I was thinking of adding more batteries to my Geo Tracker but
> even with the power brakes it is impossible to lock up the
> wheels on a panic stop.
>
> I noticed on my previous Electro-Metro that the front disks
> require more effort to stop than the rear shoes. The
> proportioning valve was thus limiting pressure to the rear
> wheels so I removed the pressure regulator and the car
> stopped better.
>
> I'm thinking of doing this to the Tracker but was wondering
> if there was more "grabby" material for the caliper pads and
> shoe brakes. I've waisted time and money at various auto
> stores that claim brake pads "heavy duty" or Heavy Dutiest"
> when it's just B.S.
>
> It's interesting to note that my ol Ford Ranger with manual
> brakes (front disks and rear drums also) stops on a dime with
> 5000 lbs total weight vehicle & load. It has similar master
> piston diameter and wheel diameter shoes & wheel cilanders as
> the Tracker. Anybody know what the secret is to beefing up brakes?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 9:46 AM -0800 2/6/03, Rich Rudman wrote:
So for the time being.... Otmar is the only one making controllers
larger that Curtii.
This is now a wide open market for anyone with a reliable affordable DC
controller.
Damon is taking off 18 months or so to do golf cart controllers, in
volumes that are staggering.
He says he will be back.... but 18 months is almost professional
suiside.
This is the most foolish marketing mistake that I have seen him do.
I have advised him not to. But cashflow is the back breaker here.
Otmar's 1K Zillas will be the only thing in the 1000 amp class. I am
pretty sure Otmar can't make 12 a month and still maintain his sanity.
I am burried with Charger orders and Development.
Wait, Rich, are you accusing me of being sane now? :-)
Well it seems Rich has let the cat out of the bag. I wasn't quite
ready to announce the Z1K because it's still in testing, but I guess
this is as good a time as any.
Ever since I started redesigning the Zilla for easier manufacture and
more power, I was also designing in a smaller 1000 Amp unit using a
shorter case and many of the same components. When I heard about
Damon taking a break, I set up to make some lower cost low voltage
models as well.
The current status is this:
The Z1K power section has passed the overheat tests with flying
colors. This is where I climb slowly up hills in top gear with the
cooling turned off and temperature sensors all over. Since the rest
of it is the same as the well proven Z2K, all that remains is a
taking product photos before I put it on the web and start accepting
deposits for 10 beta units. (four of these are already spoken for) I
am still awaiting delivery quotes on the copper for these but
otherwise everything else is sitting here on the shelf ready to go.
With the introduction of the Z1K, the Zilla line will consist of six
controller models starting at under $1500. Packages including the
required Hairball and Precharger will start at $1775. There are two
motor current ranges: 1000 and 2000 Amps and three nominal voltage
ratings: 72 to 156V, 72 to 300V and 72 to 348V.
I'll try to get a web page with some more details up later today.
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Z2K controller, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A good reason to limit the speed of a twowheeled vehicle is in California if
you keep it to 30mph you can register it as a moped and have a one time
registration. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
> Gordon Niessen wrote:
>
> > In the spirit of walk before you run, I am planning on
> > starting with a
> > single speed setup. I am glad to hear of your experience, as
> > I was not
> > expecting very acceptable performance. Given how most
> > commercial scooters
> > seem constrained to a top end of 35mph, I figured it was all
> > I could expect
> > from a direct drive. I don't need to go more the 45mph for my
> > commute. But I would not mind having enough pep to impress
> > onlookers. :-)
>
> I see you're getting lots of good advice on this. It's true that you
> may not need a transmission for a mere 45 mph top end.
>
> But starting with direct drive might not be the least effort approach.
> IIRC, the bike you're using is a Suzuki 250 cc two-stroke triple? And
> you're using a rather small motor? Maybe the easiest thing to do is not
> to adapt a trans or direct drive to the motor. How about adapting the
> motor to the trans?
>
> Try hacking off the crankcase and attaching the electric motor in its
> place. The mounting could be very simple, the only complexity might be
> in making an adapter from the motor shaft to the primary drive sprocket.
> If you're concerned about having a power plant that looks "hacked up", I
> know from experience that a little attention to detail can make the
> remains of the original casting look very presentable - even factory.
>
> Chris
>
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I have marked this as off topic, but could easily argue it is on. I
am looking for some material for the NDSU solar car which is a BEV.
Anyway, our rear suspension is a trailing arm setup welded out of
4130 Steel sheet (.048). The arms pivot on 2.93" ID bearings so we
need 3" OD tube for the pivots. Wall thickness is not important as
we can turn it down. I have been unable to find 3" OD tube and solid
bar is far too expensive. Anyone know of any suppliers I should look
into? Alternatively, anyone with experience TIG welding 4130 to
other alloys, please contact me off-list.
Thanks,
Keith
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1sclunn wrote:
>
> That is a nice set up .. I guess it goes right to the drive shaft?
> I had somebody asking me about that today (ac with no tranny) . dose that
> have two speeds. do you need 2 speeds with 12000 rpm? can you still get that
> set up.
Sorry, not now.
> I called DCP the other day to see about controllers and they are not making
> any for cars. :-( any more. Maybe later but it didn't sound like any time
> soon , You might get really busy soon .
If it would be up to me, I'd make it. I get what Siemens makes,
and they can do what DCP did if no one buys AC setups.
With the wonderful state of economy we're in, it's unlikely EV boom
will happen. Siemens learns from GM: currently they have half way
assembled
Simotion inverters and no orders. I've been informed that unless they
are bought in a couple of month, they will be crushed :-(
I wish I get busy now, while I still have access to these and can
salvage them...
Victor
>
> >
> > >You don't have to dream, this was done for quite a while with larger
> > >motors: http://www.metricmind.com/misc/integr2.jpg
> > >
> > >A "partner" Siemens talking about is Ballard, which use to
> > >attach its gear box to Siemens 1PVxx motor (as on this photo) and
> > >make A312V67 unit installed in Ford Ranger EVs.
> > >
> > >Moreover, Siemens integrated not only gear box but the inverter
> > >making physically one unit drivetrain (Chrysler Epic is made this way):
> > >http://www.metricmind.com/misc/5134.jpg
> > >
> > >Victor
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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James Jarrett wrote:
> Alright, that's enough! Why is it every single time one of these
> comes up it's 500 flipping miles or more away? I honestly think the
> universe is toying with me ;)
Heck, (almost) the whole universe is more than 500 miles away. :-)
They're not that hard to ship. Certainly easier than a car!
> I bet the human brain is a kludge. - Marvin Minsky
Of course it is! And that's good!
The word is Kluge, often pronounced "klooj" as one syllable, but more
properly CLUE-gee (with a hard G like goat, since it is a German word
that means "clever").
It derives from the Brandtjen & Kluge printing press company, started in
1919 in St. Paul MN. Kluge presses are fiendishly complicated but very
reliable. Competitors used it as a derogatory term to mean "too
complicated to work", kind of like Ford-haters saying it stands for "Fix
or Repair Daily". Nevertheless, Kluge presses are very successful and
widely used.
Thus, the term is commonly used to mean a complicated solution that
nevertheless works. The human brain is a pretty good example! :-)
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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Lee Hart wrote:
>> Silly question time -- do you think Damon would (or should) license
>> his controllers to someone else to build?
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Yea that might work. But there are a lot of things that should be
> improved. The guts to the Raptor/Rex didn't change much in the
> 5 years that they were built.
Yes, I know there are technological improvements (like better parts
available now that weren't available then). And there are assembly
issues that need to be solved (like soldering the transistors to the
heatsink).
However, it worked; and it worked well! That is important. If someone
wants a controller bad enough to go to the trouble of building their
own, then having a known working design is a tremendous advantage. It's
easy to find a schematic. But it's extremely difficult to find one that
includes the vital physical and mechanical layout.
The fact that the "tricks" in it are now dated and wouldn't be used in a
new design is actually a *good* thing. It means there is little reason
to keep them a secret any more.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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and a final product.
wouldnt that look nice instead of the exhaust pipes, we can have
some plasma tubes... with that nice sparking action...
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Motorcycle rolling chassis
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24
02191769n
Lawrence Rhodes.......
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> At 06:08 PM 1/27/2003 -0800, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >It was some interest to see how a single motor will perform in a
> >truck towing 10,000 lb trailer. Earlier I sent out a link to the
> >results page, but didn't get a single comment on the list; not
> >even sure my email got on the list.
> >
> >Anyway, the truck will perform just fine. Quick summary:
>
I have been forwarding this thread on as the excide battery dealer was
interested in somthing like this for his batterie deliverie truck. He's
thinking it would be good promotion.
Steve Clunn
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I added it at the end of a motor cycle tran post. Was to depressed to even
give it a subject.
Sounds like there may be some light braking through. Funny two days ago I
was so up and the weather was fine, than the next day cold, rainy , Bush
ready for war, My colds hanging on and then the call to DCP .
What I need is to have that post man deliver a PFC-20 . The Doctor said
take 2 , PFC-20 and I'll feel better in the morning.
With a buck enhancer for a de con gestent.
Steve Clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: DCP
> Did anyone else NOT receive the original post in this thread, the one from
> Steve Clunn? Jim Coate's is the first one I have.
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
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This is good news , I've been thinking about a 2 motor setup ever since I
heard about it .Like using the higher gears while cursing and keeping the
motor rpm down but not hurting the controller as the motors offering high
voltage drop in series (don't most foke think about that kind of stuff all
the time),
. Funny I paid $1500 for my old zappy 120v 400 amps with re
gen 8 years ago. I use to tell my self that (after smoking a few Curtis's )
one should figure a new controller every time you change the battery
pack.(joke). I paid the money and then waited 1/2 a year to get it. At that
time I didn't have a computer or know about anything out side of Florida.
Seems like there's new stuff coming out all the time now. This is a great
time to be doing EV's ,
Steve Clunn
> The current status is this:
> The Z1K power section has passed the overheat tests with flying
> colors. This is where I climb slowly up hills in top gear with the
> cooling turned off and temperature sensors all over. Since the rest
> of it is the same as the well proven Z2K, all that remains is a
> taking product photos before I put it on the web and start accepting
> deposits for 10 beta units. (four of these are already spoken for) I
> am still awaiting delivery quotes on the copper for these but
> otherwise everything else is sitting here on the shelf ready to go.
>
> With the introduction of the Z1K, the Zilla line will consist of six
> controller models starting at under $1500. Packages including the
> required Hairball and Precharger will start at $1775. There are two
> motor current ranges: 1000 and 2000 Amps and three nominal voltage
> ratings: 72 to 156V, 72 to 300V and 72 to 348V.
>
> I'll try to get a web page with some more details up later today.
>
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Z2K controller, now available.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
>
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Hello All,
As I promised this morning, I have updated my web page with more
information about the new controllers.
The Z1K-LV, rated nominal 72V - 156V at up to 1000A, is currently in
beta test stage.
Beyond that are five more models progressing to the most powerful
Z2K-EHV, rated nominal 72V - 348V at up to 2000A.
The web site may still be missing some details, feel free to email me
with your questions and I will work on getting the answers on the web
page.
You can see the latest "Spy Photo", pricing and other details here:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/
Thanks,
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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Hi Mark,
The problem you have is comprehension here, the brake pads that say heavy
duty are not "better" pads they are pads designed to stop better at higher
temperatures and if you are not getting the temperature into your pads now
these will make it worse.
Even on cars with good brakes these will fail to stop it until you have
traveled a mile or so, because they haven't heated up yet, even knowing this
I rolled out the end of my driveway on a regular basis from forgetting that
the car wouldn't stop.
Removing the rear bias valve is ok if your weight has significantly shifted
rearward, but can be lethal in the wet.
The quick fix for this is to go to your local wrecker and find a master
cylinder that will fit your car that has a smaller diameter bore in it.
This will increase the hydraulic ratio and apply more pressure to the
brakes, without you needing to apply more to the pedal.
The other possibility is to put larger diameter bore calipers on this, but
this is not as cheap.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
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Bob Rice wrote:
DCP is very alive an' well, glad to say.
phew... so customer support will live on (although I have yet to injure
my T-Rex). Maybe the resale value of my truck just went up :-)
The fellow at DCP I spoke with, wasn't Damon, [said] that they had Sep
Ex'es on the drawing boards, were looking for a motor builder. I Said" DCP,
Meet Warfield Electric, and tried my matchmaking skills<g>!
So can I get a sep-ex motor and matching 1000A controller to use with a
216 volt NiCad pack by say April? Then I could finally have my ultimate
truck. I do like to dream.
PS Sorry, I was bad - I should have made the subject "Re: DCP (was ac
gear box/was Re: Motorcycle Transmission) to avoid confusion.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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James Jarrett wrote:
does anyone in the REASONABLY Near Charlotte, NC area have one of these for
sale?
You may know about this already, but for those who don't, there is a
e-mail list dedicated to Elec-Traks at groups.yahoo.com/group/elec-trak
There is also an "owners club" at www.elec-trak.org
If you get on the e-mail list you can ask around... someone may have
something near to you that they are willing to sell.
Or for about $8,000 you can order up a brand new Electric Ox
(www.electricox.com) with a mowing deck. It is a modern day version of
the Elec-Trak.
I have a 12 acre farm that has about 2 acres (+-) of "lawn" that something
like this would be perfect for.
Note that the GE Elec-Traks (not the 141s) can pull various implements
for tending your garden if you have food growing on some of the other 10
acres.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
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Since I have noticed my battery performance falling thru the floor in the
cold, I've been wondering if there's any way I can retrofit some sort of a
battery warmer on my Prizm.
Here is my thought: Take an electric blanket, put it on a piece of R-7
building insulation plate (the firm stuff), and put that on a piece of
plywood I use to raise and lower my box.
Then plug in the blanket and let it warm the batteries overnight while
charging. Take the assembly off just before I drive and I have a warm car
with warm batteries.
Question: Will this work? Is this insane? And would the batteries hold the
warmth for say 30 mins of driving or would they cool down like rocks (say
1,100lbs of AGM lead)
Thanks!
Chris
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