EV Digest 2578
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: DCP
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Magnesium Metal cutting danger,Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission, A89 vs E-tek
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Better Braking
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Better Braking
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Better Braking
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: (re) introduction
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: (re) introduction
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Better Braking
by "garry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) New EV trike, Personal Electric Vehicle on the road
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission/Performance at 48v
by Henry Deaton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Curious battery behavior.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: New EV trike, Personal Electric Vehicle on the road
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) CitiCar?
by James Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: CitiCar?
by jon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by "Christopher Meier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: New Controllers from Cafe Electric
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: CitiCar?
by gail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DCP
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: DCP / New Z1K Controller from Cafe Electric llc.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: (re) introduction
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Let's just hope Damon has a real contract for payment.
I hooked up a friend with a multi-million dollar company
to do contract work on a golf cart control.
They ended up making him engineering manager of a new
control division designing golf cart size controls. He is getting paid!
Hopefully Damon isn't just getting a 'promise' of thousands of controls.
If he is being paid contract work then it pays the bills.
P.S. Other friends working in the NEV business are concentrating
on AC controls, not DC.
Rod
Rich Rudman wrote:
Bob Bath wrote:
Damon is my "neighbor" and good friend. Car
controllers simply aren't making him any money. He
has taken on an investor, and needs to ramp up
production hard on the golf cart line. He isn't going
anywhere, but needs to catch up and pay some bills.
He's a good guy with a super product, so I'm cutting
slack on this one (;-p And oh yes, he's apparently
got a new design which is same product, but in a
smaller case!
--- Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
1sclunn wrote:
I called DCP the other day to see about
controllers and they are
not making any for cars. :-( any more. Maybe
later but it
didn't sound like any time soon
huh? no more DCP? that can't be.
(or is he taking time off to design something to top
Otmar? That could
be fun... I'll have my gigawatt flux capacitor
waiting...)
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S-10
1970s Elec-Trak E20
http://www.eeevee.com
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So for the time being.... Otmar is the only one making controllers
larger that Curtii.
This is now a wide open market for anyone with a reliable affordable DC
controller.
Damon is taking off 18 months or so to do golf cart controllers, in
volumes that are staggering.
He says he will be back.... but 18 months is almost professional
suiside.
This is the most foolish marketing mistake that I have seen him do.
I have advised him not to. But cashflow is the back breaker here.
Otmar's 1K Zillas will be the only thing in the 1000 amp class. I am
pretty sure Otmar can't make 12 a month and still maintain his sanity.
I am burried with Charger orders and Development.
I have plans, good ideas and proven hardware. but NO time.
I might have to do somthing to keep the high voltage market alive for
High voltage chargers.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a Lectra with an A89. I don't have near the
> power you are getting
> out of the ETek. Seems they are closely rated. I
The difference is a little more torque at the
start for the A89 and better high rpm torque in the
e-tek. Also at 48 vdc the e-tek makes more hp at the
top end. On 72-120 vdc the A-89 whips the e-tek which
can't go to a higher voltage without cutting motor
life.
> have it geared to go max
> 40mph. It keeps up with the cars sort of and climbs
> hills ok but just feels
> a little gutless. Is it possible that I can adjust
> my brushes to get a
> little more power out of it or is the A89 at 48v
> pushing 720 pounds not that
> fast on a one speed? Am I getting the performance I
Since you don't have reverse, advancing them will
help a little eff but not much. Could hurt low end
torque.
> should expect or should
> it do better? I was thinking that at 72v and a one
> speed it might do 60 or
> better and have better hill climbing. It is
Only more power in the top end as low end torque
depends on the controller max amps.
If I was Gordon I'd go direct drive and see if
it works, it most likely should.
For those cutting in motorcycle trans cases, all
VW bug blocks, trans cases, watch out as some are made
from magnesium that if ground into a dust and a spark
from the grinder or saw's brush's or metal grinding
spark can cause a very nasty explosion, shooting
burning mag particles into your clothes, skin. Not
good!!
> dependable. Lawrence
> Rhodes.......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Henry Deaton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris,
Sounds like the only solution really, the catch 22 in this is that cold
batteries charge better than hot ones just as hot ones discharge better than
cold ones.
A guy in Australia built a regenerating system based on this by cooling one
pack while charging and heating the other for better discharge, then
reversing the system when the drive set became low.
As most of you only run one set of batteries this probably isn't practical,
but its kinda interesting, I thought, anyway.
Of course I could have this around the wrong way and you may find your
problem is that cold batteries don't charge well and you need to heat them,
but if this is so, then the draw off them will keep them warm and they will
discharge faster, don't ya just hate these catch 22 things :(
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Keeping your batteries warm will make a huge difference in range,
especially if your pack is nearing its end.
If you feel like getting some exercise, pull the batteries out and put
something like the thin heater mats that Victor sells on the bottom and
put 'em back in. Heat rises and all. Then keep insulation on top.
I forget what batteries you have... if flooded, just charge extra and/or
time you finish cycle to be just before driving to keep 'em warm.
Heck, my pack actually improved slightly over the past few weeks of
extreme cold as I an extra effort to keep them warm (but could also mean
they were chronically undercharged and like all the extra amp-hours).
But yes, anything to keep up the temperature is good.
Christopher Zach wrote:
Since I have noticed my battery performance falling thru the floor in the
cold, I've been wondering if there's any way I can retrofit some sort of a
battery warmer on my Prizm.
Here is my thought: Take an electric blanket, put it on a piece of R-7
building insulation plate (the firm stuff), and put that on a piece of
plywood I use to raise and lower my box.
Then plug in the blanket and let it warm the batteries overnight while
charging. Take the assembly off just before I drive and I have a warm car
with warm batteries.
Question: Will this work? Is this insane? And would the batteries hold the
warmth for say 30 mins of driving or would they cool down like rocks (say
1,100lbs of AGM lead)
Thanks!
Chris
--
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
garry wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> The problem you have is comprehension here, the brake pads that say heavy
> duty are not "better" pads they are pads designed to stop better at higher
> temperatures and if you are not getting the temperature into your pads now
> these will make it worse.
>
> Even on cars with good brakes these will fail to stop it until you have
> traveled a mile or so, because they haven't heated up yet, even knowing this
> I rolled out the end of my driveway on a regular basis from forgetting that
> the car wouldn't stop.
>
> Removing the rear bias valve is ok if your weight has significantly shifted
> rearward, but can be lethal in the wet.
>
> The quick fix for this is to go to your local wrecker and find a master
> cylinder that will fit your car that has a smaller diameter bore in it.
> This will increase the hydraulic ratio and apply more pressure to the
> brakes, without you needing to apply more to the pedal.
> The other possibility is to put larger diameter bore calipers on this, but
> this is not as cheap.
>
Why not just move the point of the pedal which pushes the master
cylinder rod closer to the axle point the pedal body swivels around?
Same thing accomplished.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor,
Good point, but its as much if not more work, may not be as easy as it seems
and is probably illegal, not to mention the sort of modification that might
void your insurance policy.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
garry wrote:
>
> Hi Victor,
>
> Good point, but its as much if not more work, may not be as easy as it seems
> and is probably illegal, not to mention the sort of modification that might
> void your insurance policy.
>
> Garry Stanley
>
> Cable.net.nz
As far as insurance is concerned, swapping out for other car model's
master cylinder is also modification of existing brake system and just
as legal (or as illegal, depends on your definition).
At least with the pedal mod you keep all native parts.
There is a line somewhere - upgrading brake pads for larger hevy duty
aftermarket ones, not approved by manufacturer, might turn out to be
be just as illegal when it comes to resolve the insurance claim,
yet many hot drivers do it.
Heck, we all do EV conversion which is "illegal" modification not
supported by manufacturer. So we take our chances.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Careful what you say... there is going to be the Tour de Sol and also
> the next Power of DC (hopefully) right near you :-)
I can brew up some extra coffee :-)
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you. I really like the solar panels, they power the shed, the tractor,
and even feed the grid a bit in the summer. About a KW/hr a day.
The 944S is a very nice car, but it's broken now. Something is wrong with
the motor and I can't figure it out. I've thought about making it electric,
but to be honest I figured with the batteries it would handle like a truck.
Need to sell it and get another EV :-) Or convert the Rabbit GTI.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:55 AM
Subject: Re: (re) introduction
>
>
>
> Hi Christopher .
>
> nice web site
> You got it going on with the solar power ect.
> Liked the look of that 944 Porsche. I have a 924 or the trobo that I
> converted , its heavy but I really like the way it drives . Never drove a
> gas one.
> Steve Clunn
>
>
> > Currently I own a 94 Geo Prizm/US Electricar. It is a fascinating car;
> with
> > the batteries under the car there is little if any signs from the inside
> > that it's anything other than a normal car. Fits the whole family and
> > luggage without a problem or complaint.
> >
> > It's equipped with a 50kw motor, 200amp/300 volt controller, a
> MagneCharger
> > port (I need to install the MagneCharger outside) and 50 little Hawker
> > batteries in two *long* strings of 25. Right now it's still on it's
first
> > pack (yep, the one from 94) and I am learning a lot by gently nursing
this
> > pack along. Over the fall I weeded out a number of bad batteries; will
see
> > how things look in the spring before deciding on a pack replacement.
> >
> > The fact that it runs with an eight year old pack that has been probably
> > sitting dead idle for four years speaks well of Hawker.
> >
> > In addition, I also own an Elec-Trak E20 which has not been plugged into
> the
> > wall in about a year now. It's fully solar powered; details can be found
> on
> > my web site at http://www.crystel.com The elec-trak has completely
> replaced
> > my old Craftsman tractor, and to be honest probably does more good for
the
> > environment than the Prizm.
> >
> > My favorite thing about electrics: Pulling into the gas stations to
check
> > the air in the tires. Least favorite is probably dropping the pack or
> > worrying about blowing up a battery.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind offering my house as a waypoint if someone in MD needs
an
> > emergency charge. Currently have 110 in the driveway; going to put
> 220/20amp
> > and the MagneCharger in for the Spring.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
>
> Since I have noticed my battery performance falling thru the floor in the
> cold, I've been wondering if there's any way I can retrofit some sort of a
> battery warmer on my Prizm.
>
> Here is my thought: Take an electric blanket, put it on a piece of R-7
> building insulation plate (the firm stuff), and put that on a piece of
> plywood I use to raise and lower my box.
>
> Then plug in the blanket and let it warm the batteries overnight while
> charging. Take the assembly off just before I drive and I have a warm car
> with warm batteries.
>
> Question: Will this work? Is this insane? And would the batteries hold the
> warmth for say 30 mins of driving or would they cool down like rocks (say
> 1,100lbs of AGM lead)
>
> Thanks!
> Chris
Unless it's freezing cold, they will hold their temp for 30 min even
without much insulation, especially since you keep drawing current
from them.
A little problem I have is after 30 min driving to work, I have to
park there for 8 hours without warmers on, and drive back at the end of
the day. To hold the temp for 8 hours you need better insulation, but
don't overkill - perhaps 1/2" of this R_7 stuff around all the batteries
will be sufficient for 8 hours. Few degrees drop won't make noticeable
difference. Lead has very large thermal mass.
When you charge colder batteries, make sure the charger (if it's
smart enough) compensates for the temp delta.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor,
Yes all valid points, but my suggestion doesn't alter the mechanical
geometry of the brake system and due to the fact that there aren't that many
brake system manufacturers, the odds are, one that fits will be made by the
same company.
In fact the smart way to do this would be to ring the parts dept of the
local dealer and ask what cars have the same part with a smaller diameter
bore.
This is after all the safety of the people in the car that's at stake and
while some of us could do what you suggest with ease, knowing it was done
safely, someone else attempting this might end up killing themselves.
No disrespect intended, just trying to point out that we don't all have the
same skills when it comes to modifications like this and sometimes the hard
way is the safest way.
Garry Stanley
Cable.net.nz
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I took my first ride in my new trike today. The
biggest problem was it kept doing wheelies!!!! Thought
it was light in the front, but had good weight, about
33% with me in the saddle. Can carry 2 people and 2
weeks from thought to road.
It's made from a bunch of stuff I had lying
around and had to clean up. Took a Honda Elite 80
scooter front end and an old EZ-GO golf cart transaxle
mated together with a frame of 2" sq steel tube and
angle and traded for the welding work.
I expected the steel to be stronger but it bent
fairly easily and hammered into needed shapes too
easily for my taste. Composites are much stronger,
stiffer, than the steel. Probably the last steel
vehicle I'll ever build.
Using the stock resistor controller with only 2
of the normal 3 resistors made start-up perky to say
the least.
With 4- 100 amphr 12vdc Dynasty UPS used batts
for a 48 vdc batt pack and 12" trailer rims and car
tires on the transaxle it did 23 mph on the flat, just
right for what it's use is for. I have room for
another batt and/or field weakening if faster speeds
are needed. Only a 36vdc, 2.1hp motor. Total price so
far $150 and another $100 for the body if it gets
done.
Fla has some new Personal Electric Vehicle
laws that let you go 20mph without tags, reg, only DL
needed. Thinking about doing a body for it too in
light colored ply, mahougany, oak, ect as a piece of
art after testing. All woods saved from a mill scrap
pile.
So to make it narrower than the 40" it is now
at the wheels some offset, smaller compact spares will
be fitted probably if I can find light ones. Many of
them weigh as much as a regular, full size tire. Maybe
some reg tires, rims from an early Civic, other front
drive cars, as they were alum, small and well offset.
I did it for reliability to get to work
pumping 1/400's of the US's oil supply which I'm
trying not to use any of.
Before on my other trike, it had 2 chain
reduction drive and the other night, 12am going to
work the chains started flying off the sprockets. It
took 15 mins to get back together, fixed, arrived to
work late, greasy. Not good, so the reliability of
gear drive will be welcomed.
If my commute wasn't 12 miles each way the chain
system could work but I wanted a 50 mile range and
higher speeds 23 vs 16mph. I live 15 miles outside of
Tampa so longer range is needed and the higher speed,
suspension will make it safer, more comfortable.
To extend it's daily range there is a 30 amp
charger for bulk charging.
All in all, a good EV grin Day!
jerry dycus
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence,
What controller are you using? Your controller and or batteries are
probably limiting your acceleration.
Henry
At 11:45 AM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
I have a Lectra with an A89. I don't have near the power you are getting
out of the ETek. Seems they are closely rated. I have it geared to go max
40mph. It keeps up with the cars sort of and climbs hills ok but just feels
a little gutless. Is it possible that I can adjust my brushes to get a
little more power out of it or is the A89 at 48v pushing 720 pounds not that
fast on a one speed? Am I getting the performance I should expect or should
it do better? I was thinking that at 72v and a one speed it might do 60 or
better and have better hill climbing. It is dependable. Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry Deaton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Generally, the float current is the current necessary to overcome the self
discharge losses while the battery is on standby. One amp is quite a bit of
self discharge. I hope your cells do not have that much self discharge.
If you look at the battery specification from the manufacturer, it usually
states a float voltage for the battery. As the batteries age, the voltage
must be altered slightly as the end of charge acid concentration changes.
The current must change as well since the self discharge changes with age.
Be aware that float current and float voltage are two different measurements
of the same condition. Either one can be specified and you can set your
charger to meet that specification. Most chargers have a float voltage
setting rather than a float current setting since most battery specification
sheets list a float voltage rather than a float current. I think this is
more common since the float current goes up as the battery ages while the
float voltage stays the same.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:40 AM
Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> I like that idea. Float means 1 amp or less. Right? Thanks. Lawrence
> Rhodes......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:42 PM
> Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
>
>
> > You might try the Acceptance/Float voltage technique.
> >
> > That is where you charge up to an acceptance voltage of 151.5 for two
> hours
> > and then drop back to a lower float voltage until you need to use the
> > vehicle.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> >
> >
> > > Every reg blinks. Lately though some of the batteries won't take
> anymore
> > > charge and their voltage drops. Some batteries will keep climbing if
> > > allowed. The regs keep that from happening. That's where the problem
> is.
> > > I charge at 151.5v When some batteries drop below 10.1 the current
has
> to
> > > go somewhere and that some where is into the regs. I think lowering
the
> > > voltage might be in order. Lawrence Rhodes.........
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:44 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Do all the regs blink if you leave the charger at a low level (~1
amp)
> > > > overnight?
> > > >
> > > > When you get all the regs blinking, check the voltage setting on the
> > regs
> > > to
> > > > make sure they are all set correctly.
> > > >
> > > > If a reg does not come on nor blink, then either the battery voltage
> is
> > > too
> > > > low (degraded battery or thermal runaway) or the reg setpoint is too
> > high.
> > > >
> > > > If the reg comes on solid, either the charger is set too high or the
> > load
> > > is
> > > > not drawing current.
> > > >
> > > > Joe Smalley
> > > > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > > > Fiesta 48 volts
> > > > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:19 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I've got about 1500 miles on the pack now. A mix of new and used
> > Delphi
> > > > 8v
> > > > > batteries. The reg external loads here and there are hot. The
> > > batteries
> > > > > don't seem warm. 5 amps over 30 batteries. How hot can it get?
ah
> > but
> > > > > that wouldn't be over 30 batteries. Only the ones that are still
> > > > blinking.
> > > > > Is this a job for one of those infrared temperature sensors? I
have
> > > never
> > > > > had the Delphis working this good. I trashed a bunch in my motor
> > cycle
> > > > but
> > > > > was only charging at 9.6v per battery. 10.1 to 10.2 is much
better.
> > I
> > > > got
> > > > > a bunch more used batteries. Hopefully I can make them last.
Seems
> > the
> > > > > Delphis like gentle use. I took them 40 miles and the pack was
only
> > > down
> > > > to
> > > > > 123.72. It seems I took my previous car down to 118v all the time
> and
> > > > only
> > > > > went 20 miles with a pack half the size. I have a feeling I could
> go
> > > 100
> > > > > miles with this vehicle if I kept it down to 45mph. Lawrence
> > > Rhodes.....
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got pictures?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:28 PM
Subject: New EV trike, Personal Electric Vehicle on the road
> Hi All,
> I took my first ride in my new trike today. The
> biggest problem was it kept doing wheelies!!!! Thought
> it was light in the front, but had good weight, about
> 33% with me in the saddle. Can carry 2 people and 2
> weeks from thought to road.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My Favorite Brother in-law, (The one who found my TEVan), left me
another message tonight.
It seems there is an electric car at the WSM auction in Phoenix. The
auction is Saturday morning, he figured it would be gone by 8:00.
>From the description he gave me it sounds like a CitiCar? At least he
said it was 2 passengers, built like a wedge and had a hellacious front
bumper on it. He couldn't find any batteries in it, just what looked
like a place for them, (like under the seat). He didn't comment on the
condition, just wanted to know what I thought it was worth. (He's almost
hooked. He thinks it would be neat to drive back and forth to the
grocery store with.)
Jim
93 Dodge TEVan
(Back up to 300+ EV miles a week)
"Breathe Easy - it's Electric"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> Since I have noticed my battery performance falling thru the floor
> in the cold, I've been wondering if there's any way I can retrofit
> some sort of a battery warmer on my Prizm.
>
> Here is my thought: Take an electric blanket, put it on a piece of
> R-7 building insulation plate (the firm stuff)...
R7? 1" of low-density styrafoam is R7. Either the stuff you are talking
about is much thicker, or it isn't R7.
> and put that on a piece of plywood I use to raise and lower my box.
> Then plug in the blanket and let it warm the batteries overnight
> while charging. Take the assembly off just before I drive and I
> have a warm car with warm batteries. Will this work? And would the
> batteries hold the warmth for say 30 mins of driving or would they
> cool down like rocks (say 1,100lbs of AGM lead)
First, an electric blanket is pretty low wattage; it would take days to
warm up 1100 lbs of batteries. And that assumes the batteries are
insulated, so they aren't losing the heat faster than you are putting it
in.
So your first, most fundamental requirement is to insulate the
batteries. Even without heaters, this will keep them warmer, as it traps
the waste heat generated during charging and discharging.
Second, the number of watts of heat you need ultimately depends on how
much insulation you have; not on battery size or weight. With open air
batteries right out in the breeze when driving, even a kilowatt won't
keep them warm. Put 'em in a box with 2" of styrafoam, and even a 60
watt light bulb will keep them warm.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> When you charge colder batteries, make sure the charger (if it's
> smart enough) compensates for the temp delta.
Mmm... How should it compensate? I'd be willing to believe the Prizm's
charger is as dumb as a box of toast. I *really* need to get the
MagneCharger working.
That said, what should be the charge profile and ending voltage on the pack
when the temp is below freezing?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it has a "hellacious" front bumper, my guess it would be a comutacar
(and "modern" citicar). I've got one, and love it.
Warning, pitch coming: If folks in the Pacific Northwest have a Comutacar
or Citicar for sale (or parts) let me know!
Thanks
Jon
On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, James Wolfe wrote:
> My Favorite Brother in-law, (The one who found my TEVan), left me
> another message tonight.
>
> It seems there is an electric car at the WSM auction in Phoenix. The
> auction is Saturday morning, he figured it would be gone by 8:00.
> >From the description he gave me it sounds like a CitiCar? At least he
> said it was 2 passengers, built like a wedge and had a hellacious front
> bumper on it. He couldn't find any batteries in it, just what looked
> like a place for them, (like under the seat). He didn't comment on the
> condition, just wanted to know what I thought it was worth. (He's almost
> hooked. He thinks it would be neat to drive back and forth to the
> grocery store with.)
>
> Jim
> 93 Dodge TEVan
> (Back up to 300+ EV miles a week)
>
> "Breathe Easy - it's Electric"
>
--
Jon Kenneke, General Manager
Kenneke Communications - http://www.kenneke.com
PO Box 3126 - Albany, OR 97321-0702
Radio Takena KTK - http://www.radiotakena.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
> Christopher Zach wrote:
> > Since I have noticed my battery performance falling thru the floor
> > in the cold, I've been wondering if there's any way I can retrofit
> > some sort of a battery warmer on my Prizm.
> >
> > Here is my thought: Take an electric blanket, put it on a piece of
> > R-7 building insulation plate (the firm stuff)...
>
> R7? 1" of low-density styrafoam is R7. Either the stuff you are talking
> about is much thicker, or it isn't R7.
>
> > and put that on a piece of plywood I use to raise and lower my box.
> > Then plug in the blanket and let it warm the batteries overnight
> > while charging. Take the assembly off just before I drive and I
> > have a warm car with warm batteries. Will this work? And would the
> > batteries hold the warmth for say 30 mins of driving or would they
> > cool down like rocks (say 1,100lbs of AGM lead)
>
> First, an electric blanket is pretty low wattage; it would take days to
> warm up 1100 lbs of batteries. And that assumes the batteries are
> insulated, so they aren't losing the heat faster than you are putting it
> in.
>
> So your first, most fundamental requirement is to insulate the
> batteries. Even without heaters, this will keep them warmer, as it traps
> the waste heat generated during charging and discharging.
>
> Second, the number of watts of heat you need ultimately depends on how
> much insulation you have; not on battery size or weight. With open air
> batteries right out in the breeze when driving, even a kilowatt won't
> keep them warm. Put 'em in a box with 2" of styrafoam, and even a 60
> watt light bulb will keep them warm.
> --
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
oooooooooooooooooooooooooh
sweet! from all of us EVers, thank you Otmar! It's so tiny!
Seth
On Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 07:14 PM, Otmar wrote:
Hello All,
As I promised this morning, I have updated my web page with more
information about the new controllers.
The Z1K-LV, rated nominal 72V - 156V at up to 1000A, is currently in
beta test stage.
Beyond that are five more models progressing to the most powerful
Z2K-EHV, rated nominal 72V - 348V at up to 2000A.
The web site may still be missing some details, feel free to email me
with your questions and I will work on getting the answers on the web
page.
You can see the latest "Spy Photo", pricing and other details here:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/
Thanks,
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have him check in the bumpers for batteries. It might be a Comutacar,
which looks like a Citicar except for the bumpers which each hold
4 6-Volt batteries.
Gail
On Thu, 6 Feb 2003, James Wolfe wrote:
> My Favorite Brother in-law, (The one who found my TEVan), left me
> another message tonight.
>
> It seems there is an electric car at the WSM auction in Phoenix. The
> auction is Saturday morning, he figured it would be gone by 8:00.
> >From the description he gave me it sounds like a CitiCar? At least he
> said it was 2 passengers, built like a wedge and had a hellacious front
> bumper on it. He couldn't find any batteries in it, just what looked
> like a place for them, (like under the seat). He didn't comment on the
> condition, just wanted to know what I thought it was worth. (He's almost
> hooked. He thinks it would be neat to drive back and forth to the
> grocery store with.)
>
> Jim
> 93 Dodge TEVan
> (Back up to 300+ EV miles a week)
>
> "Breathe Easy - it's Electric"
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 8:29 PM
Subject: Battery warmers: Thoughts
> Since I have noticed my battery performance falling thru the floor in the
> cold, I've been wondering if there's any way I can retrofit some sort of a
> battery warmer on my Prizm.
>
> Here is my thought: Take an electric blanket, put it on a piece of R-7
> building insulation plate (the firm stuff), and put that on a piece of
> plywood I use to raise and lower my box.
>
> Then plug in the blanket and let it warm the batteries overnight while
> charging. Take the assembly off just before I drive and I have a warm car
> with warm batteries.
>
> Question: Will this work? Is this insane? And would the batteries hold the
> warmth for say 30 mins of driving or would they cool down like rocks (say
> 1,100lbs of AGM lead)
>
> Thanks!
> Chris
> Hi Chris an' All;
Warm thoughts dept. I have been drivin' my Rabbit through the very cold
weather in CT the last several weeks. The bitter cold, like down to zero,
knocked the hell out of my range. i can't do my 56 mile RT anymore without
that charge at work. The range is about 30 miles when it is 0 out, leasurly
driving. The batteries are spread around the Rabbit, I would imagine that
the ones in the " Trunk" 9 in all huddled together run a lot warmer than
those in the forward engine room, under the hood. I thought of glueing
styrofoam around them for the winter, but it has risen up to the tropical
30's the last few daze. Range, of course is up, but the car seems sluggish
in the cold. The motor and DCP LOVE it, never get warm. But the car is
fasyter when it's warm, why? I don't know. I checked the aior in the tyres,
it's 50 psi all; around, have auto tranny fluid with a dash of graphite in
the tranny, and I FIXED the bum CV joint. Snowing like hell tonite when I
drove home, uses alot more amps to push along on the unplowed roads. That's
a magic moment in EV's ghoasting along in the new fallen snow, it wafting
around the car as yu glide along. No tire noise or any of that stuff. Just
the happy song of a content motor. Wheels never slip, unless yu try to.
Weighing a zillion pounds helps in the traction dept. But the tons of
weioght can work against you in the stopping dept. Don't drive SUV and yur
OK home free, of dings and dents.
Bottom line here, I'm back in my usual drive or charging mode. The
batteries DO stay warmer, a bit, they are working, and, like the rest of us,
with exercise stay warm. Or how I can stand riding a bike, 10 speed in NYC
in winter. When YOU are the traction motor ya stay warm. I would say, if you
can live with reduced range cuz of the cold, go for it. Keep it plugged in,
at all times, trickle charge seems to help it stay warm. It takes a lot
longer to charge in cold weather, but ya take more out, so that's only
fair.I did put old blankets over the batteries in back, thinking, if I were
a battery, would feel warmer covered up. Also prevents short circuses when
things get on tops of the battery, like a metal garbage can, after a dump
run, didn't have it secured, and it rolled across a few batteries. Can looks
like it was a prop in a movie with a shootout scene with automatic
weapons<g>!
Again YMMV but don;'t park yur EV, let folks see it doing the " Gofur "
work, in winter.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think anybody would pay for the old License.
I also don't feel that I would have to... I just wouldn't.
There are assembly tricks that the faint of heart should best stay away
from, and these and some other assembly procedures make cloning DCP
controllers unlikely.
But yes I could.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
At the bottom level some people might pay something. What about plans for
the do it your selfer. At a very low level I can repair broken traces in
boards and solder components to a setup board. Any chance for a controller
board project kit? Diagrams, boards etc... I have done shortwave radios,
fixed Rudman regs and the like before. Maybe something based on the old
DCP designs. Maybe something in the 48 to 72v range and another 72v + model
or one that goes from 48v to wherever. I've got a couple of projects that
could use more power or voltage or both. Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What does the 72v unit weigh & dimensions? How would it perform with 6
Panasonic advanced leadacid on a 720 lb bike including rider. Could the
current be lowered for NiZn. Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: DCP / New Z1K Controller from Cafe Electric llc.
> At 9:46 AM -0800 2/6/03, Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> >So for the time being.... Otmar is the only one making controllers
> >larger that Curtii.
> > This is now a wide open market for anyone with a reliable affordable DC
> >controller.
> >
> > Damon is taking off 18 months or so to do golf cart controllers, in
> >volumes that are staggering.
> >He says he will be back.... but 18 months is almost professional
> >suiside.
> > This is the most foolish marketing mistake that I have seen him do.
> >
> >I have advised him not to. But cashflow is the back breaker here.
> >
> >Otmar's 1K Zillas will be the only thing in the 1000 amp class. I am
> >pretty sure Otmar can't make 12 a month and still maintain his sanity.
> >I am burried with Charger orders and Development.
>
> Wait, Rich, are you accusing me of being sane now? :-)
>
> Well it seems Rich has let the cat out of the bag. I wasn't quite
> ready to announce the Z1K because it's still in testing, but I guess
> this is as good a time as any.
>
> Ever since I started redesigning the Zilla for easier manufacture and
> more power, I was also designing in a smaller 1000 Amp unit using a
> shorter case and many of the same components. When I heard about
> Damon taking a break, I set up to make some lower cost low voltage
> models as well.
>
> The current status is this:
> The Z1K power section has passed the overheat tests with flying
> colors. This is where I climb slowly up hills in top gear with the
> cooling turned off and temperature sensors all over. Since the rest
> of it is the same as the well proven Z2K, all that remains is a
> taking product photos before I put it on the web and start accepting
> deposits for 10 beta units. (four of these are already spoken for) I
> am still awaiting delivery quotes on the copper for these but
> otherwise everything else is sitting here on the shelf ready to go.
>
> With the introduction of the Z1K, the Zilla line will consist of six
> controller models starting at under $1500. Packages including the
> required Hairball and Precharger will start at $1775. There are two
> motor current ranges: 1000 and 2000 Amps and three nominal voltage
> ratings: 72 to 156V, 72 to 300V and 72 to 348V.
>
> I'll try to get a web page with some more details up later today.
>
> -Otmar-
>
> http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Z2K controller, now available.
> http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The 944S is a very nice car, but it's broken now. Something is wrong with
> the motor and I can't figure it out. I've thought about making it
electric,
> but to be honest I figured with the batteries it would handle like a
truck.
> Need to sell it and get another EV :-) Or convert the Rabbit GTI.
I had 1400 lbs of batts in mine to start with (12v 31's) and was surprised
how good it handled for the weight. But as I never drove a gas one so I
can't compare , . I have a parts car a 1979 924 that the motor is said to be
good , If I could get $200 for it that would pay for the car . Come on down
for a Florida vacation and you can try mine out /and go home with a motor
and tan . Is there a web site for selling Porsche parts>?
Steve clunn
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:55 AM
> Subject: Re: (re) introduction
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi Christopher .
> >
> > nice web site
> > You got it going on with the solar power ect.
> > Liked the look of that 944 Porsche. I have a 924 or the trobo that I
> > converted , its heavy but I really like the way it drives . Never drove
a
> > gas one.
> > Steve Clunn
> >
> >
> > > Currently I own a 94 Geo Prizm/US Electricar. It is a fascinating car;
> > with
> > > the batteries under the car there is little if any signs from the
inside
> > > that it's anything other than a normal car. Fits the whole family and
> > > luggage without a problem or complaint.
> > >
> > > It's equipped with a 50kw motor, 200amp/300 volt controller, a
> > MagneCharger
> > > port (I need to install the MagneCharger outside) and 50 little Hawker
> > > batteries in two *long* strings of 25. Right now it's still on it's
> first
> > > pack (yep, the one from 94) and I am learning a lot by gently nursing
> this
> > > pack along. Over the fall I weeded out a number of bad batteries; will
> see
> > > how things look in the spring before deciding on a pack replacement.
> > >
> > > The fact that it runs with an eight year old pack that has been
probably
> > > sitting dead idle for four years speaks well of Hawker.
> > >
> > > In addition, I also own an Elec-Trak E20 which has not been plugged
into
> > the
> > > wall in about a year now. It's fully solar powered; details can be
found
> > on
> > > my web site at http://www.crystel.com The elec-trak has completely
> > replaced
> > > my old Craftsman tractor, and to be honest probably does more good for
> the
> > > environment than the Prizm.
> > >
> > > My favorite thing about electrics: Pulling into the gas stations to
> check
> > > the air in the tires. Least favorite is probably dropping the pack or
> > > worrying about blowing up a battery.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't mind offering my house as a waypoint if someone in MD needs
> an
> > > emergency charge. Currently have 110 in the driveway; going to put
> > 220/20amp
> > > and the MagneCharger in for the Spring.
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
