EV Digest 2579
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Better Braking
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: New Controllers from Cafe Electric
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission/Performance at 48v
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Curious battery behavior.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New Controllers from Cafe Electric
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: New EV trike, Personal Electric Vehicle on the road
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Fw: New accurate pressure measuring technology for engineers
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Recipe for battricide?
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Recipe for battricide?
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Recipe for battricide?
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motorcycle rolling chassis
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: (re) introduction/Tour de sol
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: New EV trike, Personal Electric Vehicle on the road
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Recipe for battricide?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Recipe for battricide?
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) New eBay Findings!
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: (re) introduction
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Better Braking
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) RE: Motorcycle rolling chassis
by "Crabb, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New Controllers from Cafe Electric
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DCP
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: DCP
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: New Controllers from Cafe Electric
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I tried moving the pivot point up and it helped a bit. With 910 lbs of
batteries and 4 over the rear, I think i might try removing the
porportioning valve like I did in the Electro-Metro. Rich recommended trying
the NAPA 3-organic-semi-metalic brake pads & shoes also.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Better Braking
> garry wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> >
> > The problem you have is comprehension here, the brake pads that say
heavy
> > duty are not "better" pads they are pads designed to stop better at
higher
> > temperatures and if you are not getting the temperature into your pads
now
> > these will make it worse.
> >
> > Even on cars with good brakes these will fail to stop it until you have
> > traveled a mile or so, because they haven't heated up yet, even knowing
this
> > I rolled out the end of my driveway on a regular basis from forgetting
that
> > the car wouldn't stop.
> >
> > Removing the rear bias valve is ok if your weight has significantly
shifted
> > rearward, but can be lethal in the wet.
> >
> > The quick fix for this is to go to your local wrecker and find a master
> > cylinder that will fit your car that has a smaller diameter bore in it.
> > This will increase the hydraulic ratio and apply more pressure to the
> > brakes, without you needing to apply more to the pedal.
> > The other possibility is to put larger diameter bore calipers on this,
but
> > this is not as cheap.
> >
> Why not just move the point of the pedal which pushes the master
> cylinder rod closer to the axle point the pedal body swivels around?
> Same thing accomplished.
>
> Victor
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting. Small enough to fit on a motorcycle. Scary.
Are those liquid cooling tubes attached to it? I just noticed the same
connections on the Z2K, after seeing the hoses on the Z1K. I guess you
need it with that much power coursing through such a small box.
At 06:14 PM 2/6/2003, you wrote:
Hello All,
As I promised this morning, I have updated my web page with more
information about the new controllers.
The Z1K-LV, rated nominal 72V - 156V at up to 1000A, is currently in beta
test stage.
Beyond that are five more models progressing to the most powerful Z2K-EHV,
rated nominal 72V - 348V at up to 2000A.
The web site may still be missing some details, feel free to email me with
your questions and I will work on getting the answers on the web page.
You can see the latest "Spy Photo", pricing and other details here:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/
Thanks,
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
275 amp redone to 400 amp by golftech. 1204 Curtis I think. I can see 300
to 400 amps on hill starts. I have the feeling I am just making heat. If
you know Guerrero Street I can keep up 25 or 30 in both directions. I can
climb Courtland Street from Mission at 23 or so miles per hour. I wish I
had a dyno to tune the brushes while running. The Delphis can dish out the
amps no problem there. After the Wayland experience I wish I knew more
about adjusting brushes. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry Deaton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission/Performance at 48v
> Hi Lawrence,
>
> What controller are you using? Your controller and or batteries are
> probably limiting your acceleration.
>
> Henry
>
> At 11:45 AM 2/6/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> >I have a Lectra with an A89. I don't have near the power you are getting
> >out of the ETek. Seems they are closely rated. I have it geared to go
max
> >40mph. It keeps up with the cars sort of and climbs hills ok but just
feels
> >a little gutless. Is it possible that I can adjust my brushes to get a
> >little more power out of it or is the A89 at 48v pushing 720 pounds not
that
> >fast on a one speed? Am I getting the performance I should expect or
should
> >it do better? I was thinking that at 72v and a one speed it might do 60
or
> >better and have better hill climbing. It is dependable. Lawrence
> >Rhodes.......
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Henry Deaton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 7:07 PM
> >Subject: Re: Fw: Motorcycle Transmission
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reducing the voltage on the BC 20 helped over heating the regs. Thanks.
Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> Generally, the float current is the current necessary to overcome the self
> discharge losses while the battery is on standby. One amp is quite a bit
of
> self discharge. I hope your cells do not have that much self discharge.
>
> If you look at the battery specification from the manufacturer, it usually
> states a float voltage for the battery. As the batteries age, the voltage
> must be altered slightly as the end of charge acid concentration changes.
> The current must change as well since the self discharge changes with age.
>
> Be aware that float current and float voltage are two different
measurements
> of the same condition. Either one can be specified and you can set your
> charger to meet that specification. Most chargers have a float voltage
> setting rather than a float current setting since most battery
specification
> sheets list a float voltage rather than a float current. I think this is
> more common since the float current goes up as the battery ages while the
> float voltage stays the same.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
>
>
> > I like that idea. Float means 1 amp or less. Right? Thanks. Lawrence
> > Rhodes......
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 5:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> >
> >
> > > You might try the Acceptance/Float voltage technique.
> > >
> > > That is where you charge up to an acceptance voltage of 151.5 for two
> > hours
> > > and then drop back to a lower float voltage until you need to use the
> > > vehicle.
> > >
> > > Joe Smalley
> > > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > > Fiesta 48 volts
> > > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 1:37 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Every reg blinks. Lately though some of the batteries won't take
> > anymore
> > > > charge and their voltage drops. Some batteries will keep climbing
if
> > > > allowed. The regs keep that from happening. That's where the
problem
> > is.
> > > > I charge at 151.5v When some batteries drop below 10.1 the current
> has
> > to
> > > > go somewhere and that some where is into the regs. I think lowering
> the
> > > > voltage might be in order. Lawrence Rhodes.........
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:44 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Do all the regs blink if you leave the charger at a low level (~1
> amp)
> > > > > overnight?
> > > > >
> > > > > When you get all the regs blinking, check the voltage setting on
the
> > > regs
> > > > to
> > > > > make sure they are all set correctly.
> > > > >
> > > > > If a reg does not come on nor blink, then either the battery
voltage
> > is
> > > > too
> > > > > low (degraded battery or thermal runaway) or the reg setpoint is
too
> > > high.
> > > > >
> > > > > If the reg comes on solid, either the charger is set too high or
the
> > > load
> > > > is
> > > > > not drawing current.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe Smalley
> > > > > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > > > > Fiesta 48 volts
> > > > > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 10:19 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Curious battery behavior.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I've got about 1500 miles on the pack now. A mix of new and
used
> > > Delphi
> > > > > 8v
> > > > > > batteries. The reg external loads here and there are hot. The
> > > > batteries
> > > > > > don't seem warm. 5 amps over 30 batteries. How hot can it get?
> ah
> > > but
> > > > > > that wouldn't be over 30 batteries. Only the ones that are
still
> > > > > blinking.
> > > > > > Is this a job for one of those infrared temperature sensors? I
> have
> > > > never
> > > > > > had the Delphis working this good. I trashed a bunch in my
motor
> > > cycle
> > > > > but
> > > > > > was only charging at 9.6v per battery. 10.1 to 10.2 is much
> better.
> > > I
> > > > > got
> > > > > > a bunch more used batteries. Hopefully I can make them last.
> Seems
> > > the
> > > > > > Delphis like gentle use. I took them 40 miles and the pack was
> only
> > > > down
> > > > > to
> > > > > > 123.72. It seems I took my previous car down to 118v all the
time
> > and
> > > > > only
> > > > > > went 20 miles with a pack half the size. I have a feeling I
could
> > go
> > > > 100
> > > > > > miles with this vehicle if I kept it down to 45mph. Lawrence
> > > > Rhodes.....
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks tiny. Couldn't find the specs. on size. Will the beta price be
different than the retail price? Wonder what my 720 pounds of bike and
blubber would do at 72v with one. Wonder if the Panasonics pump out as much
amps as Optimas. Lawrence Rhodes Would it still fit under the seat?
Hotseat gets a new meaning.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Murray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: New Controllers from Cafe Electric
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooh
>
> sweet! from all of us EVers, thank you Otmar! It's so tiny!
>
> Seth
>
>
>
> On Thursday, February 6, 2003, at 07:14 PM, Otmar wrote:
>
> > Hello All,
> >
> > As I promised this morning, I have updated my web page with more
> > information about the new controllers.
> >
> > The Z1K-LV, rated nominal 72V - 156V at up to 1000A, is currently in
> > beta test stage.
> > Beyond that are five more models progressing to the most powerful
> > Z2K-EHV, rated nominal 72V - 348V at up to 2000A.
> >
> > The web site may still be missing some details, feel free to email me
> > with your questions and I will work on getting the answers on the web
> > page.
> >
> > You can see the latest "Spy Photo", pricing and other details here:
> >
> > http://www.cafeelectric.com/
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Otmar-
> >
> > http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Zilla controllers, now available.
> > http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
>
> > When you charge colder batteries, make sure the charger (if it's
> > smart enough) compensates for the temp delta.
>
> Mmm... How should it compensate? I'd be willing to believe the Prizm's
> charger is as dumb as a box of toast. I *really* need to get the
> MagneCharger working.
>
> That said, what should be the charge profile and ending voltage on the pack
> when the temp is below freezing?
First, as temperature drops, you need to raise the charging voltage. The
usual correction factor is about 3 millivolts per cell per degree C. For
example, if you have 12v batteries (6 cells each), the correction is 6 x
3 = 18mv per deg.C. If your charger applies 14.5v at 25c, then it should
apply 14.5 + (25 x 0.018v) = 14.95v at 0 deg.C.
Second, the charging current will be lower. You don't have to do
anything to limit it; it limits itself, even though the voltage is
higher.
Third, it will take much longer to reach full charge. The bulk phase is
about the same, but the current will taper off faster as you approach
full charge, and it will take hours longer to reach 100% SOC.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there any rule of thumb for estimating the loss due to cold? Something along the
line of % loss / say 20 degrees? My pack is near the end of it's life (perhaps past
it!)and since our warm October my range has gone from near 20 miles to about 12. I
would say the average temp has dropped 20 maybe 25 degees. Opinions?
Steve
In a message dated 2/6/2003 9:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jim Coate
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Keeping your batteries warm will make a huge difference in range,
>especially if your pack is nearing its end.
>
>If you feel like getting some exercise, pull the batteries out and put
>something like the thin heater mats that Victor sells on the bottom and
>put 'em back in. Heat rises and all. Then keep insulation on top.
>
>I forget what batteries you have... if flooded, just charge extra and/or
> �time you finish cycle to be just before driving to keep 'em warm.
>
>Heck, my pack actually improved slightly over the past few weeks of
>extreme cold as I an extra effort to keep them warm (but could also mean
>they were chronically undercharged and like all the extra amp-hours).
>
>But yes, anything to keep up the temperature is good.
>
>
>Christopher Zach wrote:
>> Since I have noticed my battery performance falling thru the floor in the
>> cold, I've been wondering if there's any way I can retrofit some sort of a
>> battery warmer on my Prizm.
>>
>> Here is my thought: Take an electric blanket, put it on a piece of R-7
>> building insulation plate (the firm stuff), and put that on a piece of
>> plywood I use to raise and lower my box.
>>
>> Then plug in the blanket and let it warm the batteries overnight while
>> charging. Take the assembly off just before I drive and I have a warm car
>> with warm batteries.
>>
>> Question: Will this work? Is this insane? And would the batteries hold the
>> warmth for say 30 mins of driving or would they cool down like rocks (say
>> 1,100lbs of AGM lead)
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Chris
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>
>_________
>Jim Coate
>1992 Chevy S10
>1970's Elec-Trak
>http://www.eeevee.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe and All,
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Got pictures?
I'll go buy a camera today and take pics of the
progress. Need to take pics of the Freedom EV chasis,
body molds anyway.
While it's roadworthy now a bunch of little stuff
still needs to be done like painting, rear brake,
lights for legal at night,different tires, ect.
jerry dycus
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:28 PM
> Subject: New EV trike, Personal Electric Vehicle on
> the road
>
>
> > Hi All,
> > I took my first ride in my new trike today.
> The
> > biggest problem was it kept doing wheelies!!!!
> Thought
> > it was light in the front, but had good weight,
> about
> > 33% with me in the saddle. Can carry 2 people and
> 2
> > weeks from thought to road.
>
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you received a Pressurex Sensor Film sample?Changed the format to plain
text. Thought some of you might make use of this technology. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: Pressure Measuring Tecnology
To: Engineers
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:28 PM
Subject: ADV: New accurate pressure measuring technology for engineers
Pressure Indicating Sensor Film
Dear Engineer:
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translates to pressure by comparison to a color calibration table or by
utilizing an optional imaging system. This product is useful for assessing
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Sensor Products Inc.
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East Hanover, NJ 07936-2108 USA
www.fuji-prescale.com
973.560.9092
fax 973-884-1699
Further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped by
clicking here, removing you from our lists.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
A potential fly in the ointment has arisen. I am in the process of
purchasing my first electric car:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/238.html
Anyway, I have the blessings of my bosses and the maint. crew to have an
outlet installed for my charging at school.
The problem is they can't find a way to install a 220v (that's all this car
can handle currently) outlet near enough to a parking area without having to
do a lot of work (which I will have to pay for).
They are looking into it, and hope to find a solution we can all deal with,
but in the meantime, I want to know if I am going to be killing my pack by
driving to work, parking and driving home without any charging?
The pack that is in it is not the same one listed on the EV album page. It
has been upgraded to Optima Yellow tops and I think there are now thrity of
them.
My morning/evening commute is about 14.5 miles, and it is mostly flat except
for one very substantial hill (about 300 feet of rise over about a mile of
run) that is downhill in the morning and uphill coming home.
So am I in trouble?
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
BREAKFAST.COM halted... cereal port not responding!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:41 AM 2/7/2003 -0500, James Jarrett stated:
The problem is they can't find a way to install a 220v (that's all this car
can handle currently) outlet near enough to a parking area without having to
do a lot of work (which I will have to pay for).
If the work is going to be expensive, you might want to invest in a better
charger instead. Take a look at a PFC-20 which can charge from just about
any outlet you can find.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I intend to get a PFC-20 eventually, but it's not a matter of 220 or 110 in
this case, there aren't ANY outlets near the parking areas, so no matter
what I need, it's going to have to be run.
If given the choice, I'll take 220 over 110.
One thing I forgot to mention in my first post. The 14.5 miles is one way,
and about 4 miles of that is "highway" speed, the rest is 35-45 city "stop &
go" commuter type traffic.
Thanks again.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
BREAKFAST.COM halted... cereal port not responding!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of John Lussmyer
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:51 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Recipe for battricide?
At 11:41 AM 2/7/2003 -0500, James Jarrett stated:
>The problem is they can't find a way to install a 220v (that's all this car
>can handle currently) outlet near enough to a parking area without having
to
>do a lot of work (which I will have to pay for).
If the work is going to be expensive, you might want to invest in a better
charger instead. Take a look at a PFC-20 which can charge from just about
any outlet you can find.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I dunno. For $5,500, I'd rather buy something more my style, where I can
hide a lot of batteries and still have some trunk space...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402519257&category=6708
Tim
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Motorcycle rolling chassis
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24
02191769n
Lawrence Rhodes.......
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last year the Tour de Sol was the same week as my Rally and This did not
help the trun out, When is it going to be this year ( so I can plan ahead)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: (re) introduction
> > Careful what you say... there is going to be the Tour de Sol and also
> > the next Power of DC (hopefully) right near you :-)
>
> I can brew up some extra coffee :-)
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been thinking about your project since you first posted as I have 2 old
golf carts and want to do the same.
> Fla has some new Personal Electric Vehicle
> laws that let you go 20mph without tags, reg, only DL
> needed.
I though only people form out of state needed a DL (joke)
So dose this mean you can drive golf carts on the road now, do you need (I
would hope) Brake lights, ect ?
I'll be having Fort Pierce's 4ht EV rally the end of April and would Like
to see you there (maybe I can hook you up a ride )
Steve Clunn
> So to make it narrower than the 40" it is now
> at the wheels some offset, smaller compact spares will
> be fitted probably if I can find light ones. Many of
> them weigh as much as a regular, full size tire. Maybe
> some reg tires, rims from an early Civic, other front
> drive cars, as they were alum, small and well offset.
> I did it for reliability to get to work
> pumping 1/400's of the US's oil supply which I'm
> trying not to use any of.
> Before on my other trike, it had 2 chain
> reduction drive and the other night, 12am going to
> work the chains started flying off the sprockets. It
> took 15 mins to get back together, fixed, arrived to
> work late, greasy. Not good, so the reliability of
> gear drive will be welcomed.
> If my commute wasn't 12 miles each way the chain
> system could work but I wanted a 50 mile range and
> higher speeds 23 vs 16mph. I live 15 miles outside of
> Tampa so longer range is needed and the higher speed,
> suspension will make it safer, more comfortable.
> To extend it's daily range there is a 30 amp
> charger for bulk charging.
> All in all, a good EV grin Day!
> jerry dycus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Data point myself: 50 Hawkers, 26ah each (52amp*300volt pack), AC drive,
50kw motor and controller.
Range in summer: 26 miles--27ah
Range now: 10 miles--12ah
I've noticed the max draw on the batteries is down from 200amps @ 290 volts
to about 130amps @ 250 volts. This accounts for the car being less "peppy"
and a lot more sluggish.
Also noticed the car uses more amps/mile in the winter. This is logical; the
battery voltages are lower and to get the same amount of *watts* (what
actually moves the car) you need more amps as volts go down.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Battery warmers: Thoughts
> Is there any rule of thumb for estimating the loss due to cold? Something
along the line of % loss / say 20 degrees? My pack is near the end of it's
life (perhaps past it!)and since our warm October my range has gone from
near 20 miles to about 12. I would say the average temp has dropped 20 maybe
25 degees. Opinions?
>
> Steve
>
> In a message dated 2/6/2003 9:18:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jim Coate
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >Keeping your batteries warm will make a huge difference in range,
> >especially if your pack is nearing its end.
> >
> >If you feel like getting some exercise, pull the batteries out and put
> >something like the thin heater mats that Victor sells on the bottom and
> >put 'em back in. Heat rises and all. Then keep insulation on top.
> >
> >I forget what batteries you have... if flooded, just charge extra and/or
> > time you finish cycle to be just before driving to keep 'em warm.
> >
> >Heck, my pack actually improved slightly over the past few weeks of
> >extreme cold as I an extra effort to keep them warm (but could also mean
> >they were chronically undercharged and like all the extra amp-hours).
> >
> >But yes, anything to keep up the temperature is good.
> >
> >
> >Christopher Zach wrote:
> >> Since I have noticed my battery performance falling thru the floor in
the
> >> cold, I've been wondering if there's any way I can retrofit some sort
of a
> >> battery warmer on my Prizm.
> >>
> >> Here is my thought: Take an electric blanket, put it on a piece of R-7
> >> building insulation plate (the firm stuff), and put that on a piece of
> >> plywood I use to raise and lower my box.
> >>
> >> Then plug in the blanket and let it warm the batteries overnight while
> >> charging. Take the assembly off just before I drive and I have a warm
car
> >> with warm batteries.
> >>
> >> Question: Will this work? Is this insane? And would the batteries hold
the
> >> warmth for say 30 mins of driving or would they cool down like rocks
(say
> >> 1,100lbs of AGM lead)
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >> Chris
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >
> >_________
> >Jim Coate
> >1992 Chevy S10
> >1970's Elec-Trak
> >http://www.eeevee.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Anyway, I have the blessings of my bosses and the maint. crew to have an
> outlet installed for my charging at school.
>
> The problem is they can't find a way to install a 220v (that's all this
car
> can handle currently) outlet near enough to a parking area without having
to
> do a lot of work (which I will have to pay for).
> They are looking into it, and hope to find a solution we can all deal
with,
> but in the meantime, I want to know if I am going to be killing my pack by
> driving to work, parking and driving home without any charging?
>
> The pack that is in it is not the same one listed on the EV album page. It
> has been upgraded to Optima Yellow tops and I think there are now thrity
of
> them.
Your at work for 8 hours? I would think 30 miles would be easy but being
able to charge at work is always nice and you'll be taking everbody for
rides ,lunch ect . if your cant get 220ac you could use a step up
transformer . the problem might be your charger pulling to much amps from
120 out let (after being steped up) . so now youed need some kind of current
limiting . as your driving skills improve you'll get a feel of how to
streach these miles .
would think we are talking 2 sets of 15 YT 's ?? What speed must you drive
70/60 /55 ???
Steve Clunn
> My morning/evening commute is about 14.5 miles, and it is mostly flat
except
> for one very substantial hill (about 300 feet of rise over about a mile of
> run) that is downhill in the morning and uphill coming home.
>
> So am I in trouble?
>
> James
>
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
>
> BREAKFAST.COM halted... cereal port not responding!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, the 3-4 miles of "highway" speed are a main artery leading into the
downtown area. I could "get away" with 55, but any slower and I'd get run
over. Once I get off that road, the rest is 35-45 and rarely during my
commute do I make it up to 45 unless it's early.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
BREAKFAST.COM halted... cereal port not responding!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of 1sclunn
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 3:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Recipe for battricide?
> Anyway, I have the blessings of my bosses and the maint. crew to have an
> outlet installed for my charging at school.
>
> The problem is they can't find a way to install a 220v (that's all this
car
> can handle currently) outlet near enough to a parking area without having
to
> do a lot of work (which I will have to pay for).
> They are looking into it, and hope to find a solution we can all deal
with,
> but in the meantime, I want to know if I am going to be killing my pack by
> driving to work, parking and driving home without any charging?
>
> The pack that is in it is not the same one listed on the EV album page. It
> has been upgraded to Optima Yellow tops and I think there are now thrity
of
> them.
Your at work for 8 hours? I would think 30 miles would be easy but being
able to charge at work is always nice and you'll be taking everbody for
rides ,lunch ect . if your cant get 220ac you could use a step up
transformer . the problem might be your charger pulling to much amps from
120 out let (after being steped up) . so now youed need some kind of current
limiting . as your driving skills improve you'll get a feel of how to
streach these miles .
would think we are talking 2 sets of 15 YT 's ?? What speed must you drive
70/60 /55 ???
Steve Clunn
> My morning/evening commute is about 14.5 miles, and it is mostly flat
except
> for one very substantial hill (about 300 feet of rise over about a mile of
> run) that is downhill in the morning and uphill coming home.
>
> So am I in trouble?
>
> James
>
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
>
> BREAKFAST.COM halted... cereal port not responding!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess I'll make this my Friday and Monday morning ritual. Here are
todays new eBay findings:
Two lots of 50 SAFT Lithium Batteries LS 14500 (3.6v, 2.25Ah), still
operating though past their date:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3006762531&category=14886
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3006761048&category=14886
Ford TH!NK NEV:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402746297&category=6057
Antique Autoette three-wheel electric car:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402359402&category=10368
Ghetto EV conversion kit:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2401952032&category=10076
GE Hyster Forklift SCR Controller (looks like 24 or 48 volts:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3309912642&category=11770
Possible Donor Cars:
DKW FT2 Cabriolet:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402064521&category=6472
1963 Studebaker Lark:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402962272&category=6466
1978 MGB Convertible:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2401933777&category=31857
1975 MG Midget Convertible:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402231873&category=31859
1978 Alfa Romeo Inezione Convertible:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2401745701&category=5356
1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle Replica:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402960822&category=7251
1951 Chevy Delux Fast Black:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402404405&category=7250
1953 Ford Hot Rod Coupe:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/
eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402788422&category=7250
Thats about it.
-Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach wrote:
> The 944S is a very nice car, but it's broken now. Something
> is wrong with the motor and I can't figure it out. I've
> thought about making it electric, but to be honest I figured
> with the batteries it would handle like a truck. Need to sell
> it and get another EV :-) Or convert the Rabbit GTI.
Hi Chris,
It's good to have you back.
I don't think you should write off the 944S as a conversion project.
(Or perhaps your idea of a truck is considerably sportier than mine.
:^) Here are some examples:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/029.html
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/223.html
There was also a twin motor 944 on the InnEVations For Sale page some
time back. It had each motor direct drive to a rear half shaft.
Otmar's new line of controllers could make this setup very attractive.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Goldie has the most agressive brakes I have ever owned for the
> size of
> the Car. Thanks to Paul Compton for finding them and selecting the
> Pads
> for me. I think I could stand Goldie on her Nose if I really wanted
> to.
> 80 to zero in a few hundred ft, I can take the first turn around at
> Woodburn from full amps at the last light.
The Fiesta also came in high performance 'Hot Hatch' form as the XR2, so I
just found a pair of callipers off that. Actually they were from the
similarly powered Escort XR3. The pads were bog stock items from the local
discount outlet, but quality brand Ferrodo nonetheless.
The EBC, GreenStuff, RedStuff, and YellowStuff, pads are amazingly kind to
discs and the GreenStuff pads in particular have a high friction coefficient.
Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sigh....
I'd swear that i pasted it in.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2402028417
-----Original Message-----
From: Crabb, David
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 6:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Motorcycle rolling chassis
and a final product.
wouldnt that look nice instead of the exhaust pipes, we can have
some plasma tubes... with that nice sparking action...
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 1:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Motorcycle rolling chassis
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=24
02191769n
Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 6:51 AM -0800 2/7/03, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Looks tiny. Couldn't find the specs. on size.
Hi Lawrence, Thanks for the reminder. There are a few things I still
need to put on the web site.
Dimensions of the Zilla Z1K Controller:
7.00" Wide, 4.63" High, 9.00" Long, Weight 15.5 lb.
Will the beta price be
different than the retail price?
I don't expect it to be. I also don't expect any real problems with
the beta since it's based on a proven design. I just like to have a
batch out and running well before I commit to building (and giving
the warranty on) many. Call me conservative, you won't be the first.
Wonder what my 720 pounds of bike and
blubber would do at 72v with one. Wonder if the Panasonics pump out as much
amps as Optimas.
Someone must have a internal resistance number on the Panasonics.
Sounds like it would be fun!
Would it still fit under the seat?
Grab a tape measure, let's see!
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> Let's just hope Damon has a real contract for payment.
> I hooked up a friend with a multi-million dollar company
> to do contract work on a golf cart control.
> They ended up making him engineering manager of a new
> control division designing golf cart size controls. He is getting paid!
> Hopefully Damon isn't just getting a 'promise' of thousands of controls.
> If he is being paid contract work then it pays the bills.
> P.S. Other friends working in the NEV business are concentrating
> on AC controls, not DC.
> Rod
>
>
Lets all remeber that I WAS Damon's AC control guy.
The Mini bike from hell is proof of that effort.
He tossed me out and lost his AC Angle.
I expect that he will get back into it, and soon.
Our Backer and motor support dissapeared, and so I could not make a
decent cashflow, so the PFC Chargers filled to gap.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> I don't think anybody would pay for the old License.
> I also don't feel that I would have to... I just wouldn't.
> There are assembly tricks that the faint of heart should best stay away
> from, and these and some other assembly procedures make cloning DCP
> controllers unlikely.
>
> But yes I could.
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
> At the bottom level some people might pay something. What about plans for
> the do it your selfer. At a very low level I can repair broken traces in
> boards and solder components to a setup board. Any chance for a controller
> board project kit? Diagrams, boards etc... I have done shortwave radios,
> fixed Rudman regs and the like before. Maybe something based on the old
> DCP designs. Maybe something in the 48 to 72v range and another 72v + model
> or one that goes from 48v to wherever. I've got a couple of projects that
> could use more power or voltage or both. Lawrence Rhodes....
Lawerence ... With all due respect....
NO YOU COULDN'T!!
Have you ever been inside a DCP controller??? The buss bars are 10
inches long, and precision drilled, and are solder all at once with a 35
lbs chunk of copper heated to 550 Deg F. You do this 3 times.... once
for each buss Bar. The Bars are 10 inches of 1.000 by .250 cold rolled
tight edge bar. We had boxes of screwed up bars, that we Biffed our
selves. I started out as the Copper butcher and got renamed the Copper
Bitch, I could mess up a LOT of copper on a bad day.
So, lets just say, unless you want to do a Lot of practice assembly work
before you get one right.... DCPs are going to be made by Damon's team,
and that's NOT me anymore.
If I do a DC controller it will be with Modules that are 2x more
expensive than discretes, and about as easy as possible to assemble and
service. With Otmars target numbers in mind... I doubt I could compete
cost wise and feature wise.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Interesting. Small enough to fit on a motorcycle. Scary.
Are those liquid cooling tubes attached to it? I just noticed the
same connections on the Z2K, after seeing the hoses on the Z1K. I
guess you need it with that much power coursing through such a small
box.
Hi Gordon,
Yes my controllers are all liquid cooled.
Liquid cooling helps for high power applications and will make any
controller have a longer lifetime, but it is not always required. One
of the advantages of liquid cooling is that it makes it easier to
keep the controller dry by keeping it out of the air stream. Moisture
is one of the leading causes of controller failure. I haven't had any
trouble with it myself, probably because I warn so strongly about it
and conformal coat all the high voltage boards, but I've seen many
Curtii die due to water in the case.
My controllers can also be run with air cooling if it is dry air. I'm
sure you could just run a fan on it's base plate for a motorcycle
since the continuous load is so light. I have yet to determine the
vehicle weight, gearing and climate limit for air cooling them. As
an example I often drive my 3000 lb single ratio car with the cooling
turned off for testing and it takes surprisingly long to overheat. Be
warned though, running a controller into overheat on a daily basis is
just not a good idea if you want to see many years of service.
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
