EV Digest 2624
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) test
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Hot Rod Badsey HotScoot for sale on Ebay
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: DCP controllers, update,stuff
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: DCP controllers, update,stuff OT a little
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Hot Rod Badsey HotScoot for sale on Ebay
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Gliders (part 3)
by Dave Navas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: BMS cost (was Re: LIN bus link)
by "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) VW frame/tranny for sale
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DCP stuff
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: DCP controllers, update,stuff
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Hot Rod Badsey HotScoot for sale on Ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Battery Review [in light of recent discussion]
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charging Station, stuff.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Gliders (part 3)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: BMS cost (was Re: LIN bus link)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV Range/Speed Check
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Liability (was Re: Gliders (part 3)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: 6 Volt Battery Balancer?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Public Charging
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Public Charging
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: DCP controllers, update
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: DCP controllers, update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Thinking Wife almost made it home. Long
by Danny <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
test
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Roy,
Besides snapping my neck and perhaps breaking a leg (minor annoyances in the
pursuit of speed) do you have any idea what kind of RANGE this thing would
get with a 300 lb operator that kept it down to a "reasonable" speed?
Thanks
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers. - Leonard Brandwein
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Roy LeMeur
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Badsey HotScoot for sale on Ebay
Dang it! I forgot to put the URL in there, sorry!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3118601776
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yeeehaw!
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: 1sclunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: DCP controllers, update,stuff
> hay Bob
> I have smoked a few curtises in the old days and have done the same thing
,
> a quick re wiring and then heading home on 36 volts tuning the key on and
> off. Had to tow my old gas brunner home with the lawn mower one time BEV
> (before ev) . Wouldn't it be nice If we could get a controller at the
local
> auto parts store.?
>
> Hi Steve;
Sure would be nice if DCP had an Eastern Shop to handle these things, So
yu wouldn't hafta go through two weaks wait the ship the thing out an' back.
A sorta chicken an' egg thing. With, maybe 3 or 3 DCP's operating in CT, I
can't see Damon setting up a shop here.Sure be nice when Auto Zone, Pep Boys
and NAPA offered EV stuff; SALE! Prezes' Day!! Rebuilt Curti; 500 amps, $109
Ea, with blown out trade! Gauranteed one year, EVen if used for racing!
Sunday papers would have a section on do it yurself EV stuff, articles by J
. Wayland, and Dennis Berube, or Bill Dube, on Two Wheels. Dream on, Bob,
yur all saying.
Last summer when I had a controller failure, hot wired about 60 volts of
the battery pack, tucked my sweatshirt atop the line switch, closing the
hood made contact, pulling hood latch shut it down, like at a stop lite.
Dropping the hood, away we go! Godamn inconvient controller, as bad as my
early daze with SCR controllers that would miss comute, lock on, and off you
go at full power! Standing on the brake, easing car up aganst SOMETHING
strong enough to hold car from going, disconnection or pulling fuze! Great
Zorches, as yu break a zillion amps motor current, and stop the smoking
brakestand style burnout. Sure impresses the on lookers!
But we know better , now, don't we? Like any RR electric powered train,
you MUST have a line switch big enough to handle breaking locked rotor
current, or close to it. That angry " SPLOCK" you hear if an older electric
subway or trolley car emits if shut off right after starting, like the
motorman stops for a late customer. Although the newer RR stuff, drops the
load softly, shutting off vis solid state electronics, to open contactors
dry. Those of us old guyz remember all that. Nice blue flash under the car,
as the line switch often had arc chutes under the car. The power air
operated secondary contactors on the old Pennsy GG-1 locos were music to
your ears. As they were on the secondary side of the transformer, big as a
VW van, that was your speed control, NO Solid state here, 21 tap offs gave
you plenty of running points.When you ran from that end the switchgear was
in your cab end, a door with little glass porthole, separated you from the
pyrotechnics, but not the sound. Of course the happy hum of 12 traction
motors, right under the floor, two per axle, made great music. Quite a
contrast to the Microsoft run Acela! I could often FIX a limping GG-1 but
nowadaze if the Acela dies, ya need a techy with a laptop to set things
right!Ah POO! I liked the GG-1 better, you KNEW you were on a locomotive,
with all the great sounds. Hell, was never towed in with a G! G's towed a
hellova lot of new stuff in, though, when it broke. Alas, last G ran in 81
for Jersey Transet, who gave it a fitting retirement run and ceremony. They
set tha standard by which electrics were judged, pulled the Pennsy, 138
strong, through WW 2, setting tonnage and passenger hauling records that
still stand. I feel honored to have run then before they got away.
Times change! How many guyz remember the late great Pennsylvania RR?EVen?
Swallowed up in the doomed Penn Central merger in 1967, they went belly up,
later on, but the Emron thing was more money, I'm sure?Merged into the
Conrail, shedding money losing passemger biz, Conrail was a roaring sucess,
concentraiting on the freight biz, which duz make money. Passenger rail went
to Amtrak, and the regional commuter outfits, like Metro North, MBTA Metra,
and a whole alphabet soup of train operators. One thing in common, like the
electric car biz, NOBODY makes money hauling passengers, although Metro
North packs them in. Don't know how they lose money, but they SAY they do.
Forgotten in todaze scramble of how to finance Pass. rail, is the great
electrical achievments brough forth by the early days of electrification,
going through alota problems that the EV fraturnity is facing today. Regen
braking, motor comuntation, control stiff, it was ALL solid state, back
then. Massive solid brass and copper, contactors, resistance grids, all this
picturesque hardware. Still waiting for your enjoyment at RR museums most
everywhere. You EV'ers may have fun joining an operating RR museum. learning
to run classic RR stuff, and meet other interesting, like EV guys, people
that have fun overcoming the challanges of getting bygone equipment to run.
Especially one running electric stuff, trolley cars and other electric
stuff. This is a shameless plug for RR museums EVerywhere. Good guyz, doing
a great thing to preserve our heratage, stop by, say 'Hi" with an EV all the
better! Have many Waylandsque stories in RR projects moving trolleys to
museums, and getting them to run in their new home. Using stuff I learned in
RR museums, built working EV's Later WORKING in an RR shop, and later
getting to run them. Best Job in the world! Always wanted to be an Engineer
as a kid.They even PAY you to do it!
OK, Sorry, got off topic a bit, back to the Evercell, and BMS's of
late.
Off trak, on trak
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Jarrett wrote:
---------------------------------
Hey Roy,
Besides snapping my neck and perhaps breaking a leg (minor annoyances in the
pursuit of speed) do you have any idea what kind of RANGE this thing would
get with a 300 lb operator that kept it down to a "reasonable" speed?
Thanks
James
---------------------------------
Hi James
Even with the stock controller and ridden very easily on flat ground I would
be surprised if you could get more than 6 miles out of it.
With a 300 lb. rider range would be even less. You could add battery weight
but that would defeat the purpose :-)
When ridden hard through Seattle neighborhoods I can deplete the pack in
about a mile.
Most board scooters a pretty inadequate for larger riders, I weigh over 200
lbs. and most of them won't haul me up a hill very well.
The new Currie Tsunami has an 18Ah pack and a 10 mile advertised range, this
might be an acceptable alternative.
The URL again for those who might have missed it because I forgot to put it
in the first posting:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3118601776
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sam check out these kit cars , Paul is just getting into EV's
>also so he'd be very intrested in haveing one of his kit car's
>used as an EV ..
>http://paulsexotics.com/
Always been a sucker for the Diablo. Add a little Miami Vice
music and I'd be ready to be pulled over by every cop on the
road :>
Completely impractical, of course -- need a back seat these
days. <sigh>
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Feb 2003 at 8:50, Rich Rudman wrote:
> OF the thoussands of Regulators that I have made, I am not sure I made
> a profit... Doing a $10 Reg is out of the picture, there is not enough
> demand, or market. At $30 there is slim hope at $40, it looks good. at
> $50, and a digi Reg, I hope I can cover the hardware costs, Software
> development is just going to cost me my time, or more Royalties to the
> developer.
Queue here for 10$ regs! Well, 40$ regs, but they do 4 li-ion cells.
Per-cell volt and temp monitoring, charger interface, you name it..
Sorry for the tease, Rich, you're not going to sell me a PFC50 to
interface with now, are you? :)
I'll shut up now until they're ready for viewing.. ETA End of March.
Evan.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys,
Found this ad in the local Pennysaver. If you're in Southern California and
looking for a VW frame (pan?) or tranny, this might be your deal. No
connection to the seller, etc., etc.
"68 VW Bug frame, no engine, has transmission/ 4 wheels, $40.
(760)240-5175."
Tim
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well folks I just got off the horn with Damon at DCP. 8 to 10
controllers a Day??? WOW!! Little ones that is. He is making a ton of
stuff. We used be really happy with 6 a week.
The story on the DC/DC converter. He is out of some spendy supplies,
and well doesn't have the time to do it right. 6 months... dunno maybe
more maybe less.
But he also did not say no to having Manzanita Micro take over
production for the interval that he won't be able to produce them.
So.. I could possibly build them for us all. BUT.
And this is a big but, there's $4000 to $5000 of Stock that I have to
buy before I can produce a single item. As well as getting all the
little stuff in house and getting a test stand up and running, and
getting the help trained so I don't have to do everything.
How badly do we need these DC/DC converters??
As I recall they listed for $399. I think I could take over this
product but I really need about 20 booked orders, and about 1/2 of that
as paid orders.
This brings back old memories of DCP, I did the prototype sales and
promotion for this product While I was up in Bellingham. To do it again,
feels kinda stange.
The basic feature set was:
300 watts of 12 volts adjustable from 11 to 16 volts
Aircooled, no fans
DC/DC on board to feed a E-meter
Key controlled voltage step up for bright lights while running.
Input was 336 VDC to 96VDC, at 48 still makes %50 current.
Output 300 watts, fuse protected.
I have two of these units in My Evs. Goldie had one with out a Aux
battery. The Fiero has one, and it's a little light with the Vac pump
and headlight motors. But still no Aux 12 volt Battery.
They are a great product, they solve most of the 12 volt house power
deamnds. These are a must for anybody doing a REAL modern EV. Whimpy
headlights at night just don't cut it!.
If they are a DCP product buildt by Manzanita, they stay in a Purple
box. If I end up owning the product, they get a Green box, and my name
on them.
By the Way the Feature list Was and is mine, DCP was the engineer and
producer. This was the best DC/DC converter that we could come up with
in the Spring of 2000.
I, of course wanted more amps!!!.
This is a question. If the interest is there, I will do it. Else, we are
all back to Vicors and Todds, and Sevcons.
Please reply off line to me direct with orders.
Unless the list wants to see all the DC/DC bandwidth.
And lets remember, it's Still a battery charger of sorts!!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Randy Holmquist of Canadian EV also sells shunt motors. Its a Kostov
with upgraded bearings, wrapped comm, better field wiring, better
brushes, etc.
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
> Yup, I got that above, from the Good Guyz at DCP, too. I
> recommended
> them to hook up with Warfield electric, to build the motor for the
> Sep Ex
> controller. Warfield has alluded to that they would like to do a
> Sep Ex, so
> I'm trying my matchmaking skills to pull two Co.s together for this
> could be
> cool thing.
> ...
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wasn't a rather large gentleman(300LB)looking for something like this. He
was on the list a few months ago. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:15 PM
Subject: Hot Rod Badsey HotScoot for sale on Ebay
>
> Hello All
>
> Well... yes. This is a blatant ad for a scooter that is for sale.
>
> I just posted this on Ebay a few minutes ago.
>
> A little history...
>
> The day before Woodburn 2002 I brought this scooter over to the Wayland
> Juice Bar for entertainment purposes and free rides.
>
> After a hot charge with a variac, a few people were invited to ride it.
>
> Bill Dube' was first aboard and it did manage to throw him on the ground
> when the little Cursit came out of current limit. (Sorry Bill, I couldn't
> help but exploit this fact in the ad :-)
>
> Next up was Plasma Boy (John Wayland) and with a little careful practice,
> (and after seeing Bill get thrown) John was able to get a few good
wheelies
> out of it.
>
> I tried to get Don Crabtree aboard but he would not go for it.
>
> Many people tried the scooter that day and were quite impressed, it is not
> unusual for me to be crossing an intersection and not realize that the
front
> wheel is in the air, (luckily this has not put me on the ground yet :-)
>
> Since then, the controller has been mounted in a much more cosmetically
> appealing location and things have been buttoned up better.
> (see pics on Ebay)
>
> It has a couple of scuffs and scrapes, but is pretty sound overall
> considering it is being operated way past it's designed parameters.
>
> My friend Mark who publishes Electric Scooter Magazine is selling this
> scooter to make room for more hotrod projects, but I wrote the text and
took
> the pics.
>
> Anyway... bid if you want on this quick and dangerous scooter :-)
>
>
>
> Text from ad:
>
> This is a Badsey HotScoot, Made in U.S.A. With many high performance
> modifications. This scooter has thrown Bill Dube', the owner/builder of
the
> world's quickest drag racing electric motorcycle and has given him road
rash
> :-) See: http://www.killacycle.com
>
> Modified as a magazine project, this scooter will get to about 32 mph very
> quickly (if you can keep the front wheel on the ground)
>
> An unmodified Badsey HotScoot retails for approx. $1000.00
>
> Modifications: With retail prices for components specified-
>
> Curtis Instruments 275A motor controller ($175.00)
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=&product_id=1597
> _stock controller delivered approx. 50A_
>
> Soneil 24V 3A Constant Current Battery Charger ($108.73)
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=&product_id=2155
>
> (2) Hawker Genesis 12V 13Ah High Discharge Rate AGM Batteries ($80.00 ea.
> retail)
>
> Front tire changed to motorcycle type (improved handling) ($40.00)
>
> All high-current wiring upgraded from 10 ga. to 6 ga. (about the size in
> your car for starting purposes), about $15.00 for cable and connectors.
(see
> pictures)
>
> This 70 lb. scooter makes about 6 peak horsepower.
>
> Scooter is sold with just broken in 12V 13Ah Hawker Genesis batteries with
a
> couple dozen cycles on them, they are providing peak output.
>
> If you are looking for a ridiculously quick scooter that will throw the
> uninitiated on the ground in a hot second, this is the scoot for you.
>
> Disclaimer: Due to the inherent danger of this vehicle, buyer will be
> required to sign a release absolving the seller and/or manufacturer of any
> liability resulting from injury of damages relating to the operation of
said
> vehicle.
>
> We need to move this scooter out to make room for more projects. The
reserve
> price is pretty darned low considering the extensive modifications.
>
> We are offering this scooter at a very low reserve, ($500.00)
> This reserve price would barely cover the retail price of the added
> components.
>
> Vehicle Condition:
>
> Scooter is in good condition. It has been operated well beyond it's design
> parameters. It is up to the buyer to determine what is safe and what is
not.
> There are a few scuffs on the fiberglass body work and one ding on the
front
> (see pics). There is no warranty expressed or implied. A rider could
easily
> damage themselves or the scooter without extreme caution being observed.
> Buyer is required to sign a release of liability.
>
> Payment and Shipping:
>
> You will have to email me directly and not use checkout.
> Scooter can be shipped by UPS, I prefer this to other methods.
> I prefer to ship to the US only, I may consider shipping internationally
> under the right conditions.
> All shipping costs are the responsability of the buyer, this means buyer
> will pay all shipping costs in addition to the auction price of the
scooter.
> I am not looking to profit from the shipping.
>
> I accept Paypal, checks, and money orders. If paid by Paypal, scooter will
> ship immediately. Otherwise, scooter will ship when check clears.
> Again, please contact me directly for specifics.
>
> Thanks for bidding and good luck!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
>
> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Feb 2003 at 12:27, Walker, Lesley R wrote:
> Is this in the FAQ?
It might be there; I don't know. What I posted is from my personal EV list
archives. It was written by Donald McGrath for EV News after visiting EVS-
14, and posted on the list in December of 1997.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Feb 2003 at 11:00, Bob Rice wrote:
> At work, where I charge they just happened to have mounted an all weather
> outlet on the circuit breaker box outsode... Has a
> ground fault resettable outlet plug. It died and I replaced it with same
> thing from True Value ...
I read recently that GFI makers try to weatherize these gadgets, but they
always last longer when in a relatively dry environment. Besides, it seems
as if the competition among manufacturers has gotten stiff, so most GFI
receptacles these days -- at least the ones you find in the big-box stores --
are being made as cheaply as possible in the Far East sweatshops.
If it's already set up with an outdoor GFI as Bob's installation is, it's
probably not worth changing. But if you're doing this from scratch, I'd
recommend using a conventional (non-GFI) receptacle fed from a good quality
GFI breaker instead. If you still want to use a GFI receptacle, just mount
it indoors, then feed a conventional outdoor receptacle downstream of it
from the "load" side of the GFI.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Feb 2003 at 1:31, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> but since the consolidation, I cant see a Honda or a GM
> > releasing cars when they know they're going to be sold as EVs and directly
> > compete.
I'm not an insider so this is just a theory, but I think one reason GM
cooperated with Solectria was that they were establishing a relationship in
case they needed to license Solectria's design and/or work with them to
provide EVs for the California market. Since CARB seems to have pretty much
slunk away with their tails between their legs, that's no longer an issue;
even if GM hadn't stopped selling the Metro in the US, they might not have
continued the relationship.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Feb 2003 at 19:41, Chris Brune wrote:
> Does anyone have any ideas on what the best way to monitor battery
> temperature is? Where should the sensor go?
FWIW, Saft nicads put the temp sensor on the side.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Feb 2003 at 20:07, Peter Falabella wrote:
> -18 US Battery batteries (108 vdc)
So about 1100 lb of lead ...
> -New batteries on Sep 2000 with 3,000 total miles on them.
Age matters more than the miles, and these are 2.5 years old.
> -Vehicle weight before conversion 2,550 lbs (is this the culprit?)
Not a problem. This would be in the range of the Escort conversions.
> -Range: 20 miles
> -Top speed: 52 mph on the flat, slow to accelerate
I'd guess you have a 3000+ lb EV. About one-third of the weight is lead, so
you should see about 35-40 miles of practical range, with a hot-weather
battery-killing max of 50-60 miles. I'd expect a top speed in the 60-70 mph
range, using the stock trans.
Sounds like something is wrong. Could be wheel alignment way out, a
dragging brake, ^huge^ losses in cabling, at least one bum battery, or even
something as simple and dumb as underinflated tires.
This might be a good value if you can get it cheaply, then diagnose and fix
the problem.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have real mixed feelings about this. On one side we have the indefensible
and irresponsible manufacturer abuses, like Ford's infamous decision NOT to
fix the Pinto's gas tank (it was cheaper to let people be killed and
injured, and to settle the lawsuits, than to redesign it). Any company that
does something like that should be sat on, HARD.
But Victor and Bob and others are right; there are some people who do dumb
things, then sue because they weren't protected from their own stupidity.
As Victor points out (perceptively), they use the legal system for income.
These people are just as irresponsible.
So we have abusers on both sides. The word in common is "responsibility,"
something that seems to be in short supply these days.
How do we balance the need to punish corporations that behave cynically and
irresponsibly, with the need to crack down on frivilous lawsuits? The real
answer is that we need to change the attitudes of both managers (money isn't
the only answer, and corporations shouldn't be amoral) and individuals (you
did something foolish, now live with the consequences).
You really can't do that through legislation -- it goes deeper than that.
But I don't see too many kids being brought up to with what I consider
appropriate values these days, nor do I see the business schools teaching
that business has to have a social conscience.
I just don't know the answer. But I do know that corporations have a lot
more money and power than individuals. I absolutely don't want to see
anything more done that shifts further power to the corporations -- which is
what all the so-called "tort reform" bills have done so far.
Meanwhile, we all have to live with the consequences of this lunacy, and
it's as bad in the EV community as anywhere. Why do you think I keep
harping on the importance of electrical safety in EVs? (Ground, GFI,
isolated charger; belt, suspenders, AND velcro.)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Feb 2003 at 8:47, Chris Tromley wrote:
> the problem is
> that the BatMod series has a hole in its range of input voltages.
Use two 36v nominal DC:DCs, one for each half of the pack.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Feb 2003 at 12:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Maybe I'm being naive, but I must "assume" that they are in
> compliance as SRP and APS were and are directly involved in formulating the
> NFPA - NEC.. which includes article 625.
Depends on when they were installed. If prior to the 1999 NEC, or if
Phoenix hadn't yet adopted the 1999 code at time of installation (most
cities don't adopt a new code right away), they wouldn't have had to comply.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just look at the requirements that people go through during each American
Tour de Sol Rally in New England. Contact NESSEA for details.
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:12:12 -0500 "David Roden (Akron OH USA)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On 26 Feb 2003 at 12:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Maybe I'm being naive, but I must "assume" that they are in
> > compliance as SRP and APS were and are directly involved in
> formulating the
> > NFPA - NEC.. which includes article 625.
>
> Depends on when they were installed. If prior to the 1999 NEC, or
> if
> Phoenix hadn't yet adopted the 1999 code at time of installation
> (most
> cities don't adopt a new code right away), they wouldn't have had to
> comply.
>
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or
> switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> =
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> 1991 Solectria Force 144vac
> 1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
> 1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
> 1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> =
> Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to
> all
> thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite
> thee.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> =
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Perhaps you can give more details on this motor.
I designed shunt control systems while at GE for several different systems
including on road EV.
I also have several shunt controllers in the basement.
I also have a few torque speed curves on the computer.
Rod
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Bob,
What might Damon have for a GE 96 vdc 250 amp 27 hp shunt wound motor
with the shunt field limited to 36 volts and 20 amps ?
As a matter of fact, the technician at GE said the shunt windings would
fry immediately if they ever saw 20 amps.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:56:07 -0800 (PST) Bob Bath
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Ok, here's the deal. Damon has a colleague who
purchased used Corbin controllers. He or Damon are
waranteeing the product, and they are at a good price.
He has about 5 left or so. I know, b/c I purchased
one with throttle and remote indicators earlier today.
It's going to be a bit more of a wait on the DCDCs.
Contact me off list, and I will put you in touch.
Damon's "next big thing" will be a shunt controller to
obtain regen. From what I could glean, there will be
two models, similar to the current DCP controllers.
Since his controllers are programmable, he intends to
mate them with ADC _shunt_ wound motors, as well as
DH-somethingorother-- the founders of ADC. And yes, I
have permission to disclose it. (;-p
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod,
I originally purchased this motor to provide regenerative braking energy
to the battery pack. It is a standard GE Shunt Wound Motor with a
weight of about 150 pounds, approximately 9 inch diameter and 16 inches
long
The name plate simply states: 96 vdc, 250 amp DC Shunt Wound Motor, but
the engineer at GE said that the shunt winding must never see more than
36 volts DC or it will draw 20 amps and instantly fry the shunt windings.
A technician at GE, that tests all new motors, confirmed that 20 amps
would instantly fry the shunt windings and said to therefore keep the
shunt voltage below 36 volts at all times or suffer quick severe damage.
This $ 2300 motor self destructed during the 1996 American Tour de Sol
and took my $ 1000 PMC 96 volt Transistorized Pulse Width Modulated
Controller along with it to the electronics grave yard.
The motor had a one year warranty and was only used less than 100 miles
when it started blowing smoke and sparks while simultaneously causing a
lightning bolt to laser drill a round hole through two power transistors
and then through heavy sheet metal housing and finally leave a burn mark
on the structural fiberglass enclosure. At first GE said return the
motor for repair under warranty, but later said that the warranty was
voided, would not be repaired, and was being returned to me freight
collect.
There is alot more to this story, but not relevant to the motor itself.
Only a chance meeting with a GE stock holder at the May 1997 American
Tour de Sol resulted in Jack Welch authorizing the manufacture of a
single brand new motor, as a free replacement, for me and delivered
freight paid to my doorstep in 1997. Jack told the General Manager of
GE's Electric Motor & Controls Division of "Rowanoak", VA to make me a
satisfied customer. So far so good, but I have not had the opportunity
to use the new motor as I don't have a suitable controller or control
system for it. I guess I could use four 8 volt batteries in series to
provide 32 volts nominal with a simple on/off relay connected to the
ignition key and use a standard PWM controller for the armature, but 2.25
v/c x 4c/bat x 4 bat = 36 volts fully charged after resting a few
minutes and could blow the windings and therefore I would need to wait
until these four batteries dropped down below 36 volts before starting
the motor. Problem is that I would only need to draw below 20 amps for
no more than a 3 hours and also need a separate special 32 volt charger.
Three 12 volt or six 6 volt batteries are out of the question as they
would exceed 36 volts when even less than fully charged.
I suppose I could use five 6 volt batteries: 2.25 v/c x 3c/bat x 5 bat =
33.75 volts, but again would need a special 30 volt charger.
Using 24 volts (two 12 volters, four 6 volters, or three 8 volters) for
the shunt field would allow using a standard 24 volt charger, but would
require higher than necessary armature draw, increase cooling
requirements, and or decreased performance.
Menlo Park III,
Bill, Glastonbury, CT
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:57:40 -0500 Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Perhaps you can give more details on this motor.
> I designed shunt control systems while at GE for several different
> systems
> including on road EV.
> I also have several shunt controllers in the basement.
> I also have a few torque speed curves on the computer.
> Rod
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >Hi Bob,
> >What might Damon have for a GE 96 vdc 250 amp 27 hp shunt wound
> motor
> >with the shunt field limited to 36 volts and 20 amps ?
> >As a matter of fact, the technician at GE said the shunt windings
> would
> >fry immediately if they ever saw 20 amps.
> >Menlo Park III,
> >Bill
> >
> >On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:56:07 -0800 (PST) Bob Bath
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >
> >>Ok, here's the deal. Damon has a colleague who
> >>purchased used Corbin controllers. He or Damon are
> >>waranteeing the product, and they are at a good price.
> >> He has about 5 left or so. I know, b/c I purchased
> >>one with throttle and remote indicators earlier today.
> >> It's going to be a bit more of a wait on the DCDCs.
> >>Contact me off list, and I will put you in touch.
> >>
> >>Damon's "next big thing" will be a shunt controller to
> >>obtain regen. From what I could glean, there will be
> >>two models, similar to the current DCP controllers.
> >>Since his controllers are programmable, he intends to
> >>mate them with ADC _shunt_ wound motors, as well as
> >>DH-somethingorother-- the founders of ADC. And yes, I
> >>have permission to disclose it. (;-p
> >>
> >>__________________________________________________
> >>Do you Yahoo!?
> >>Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
> >>http://taxes.yahoo.com/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >________________________________________________________________
> >Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> >Only $9.95 per month!
> >Visit www.juno.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Driving home and I see our Think parked down
the hill about a steep block away.
OK, what's going on I think no pun intended.
Arrive home and she says hi honey your home.
What about the Think ? Oh ahhh I ran out
She says, I thought I could get back with 5%. You did ?
>From where ? The store.
Ugh I see. Ok dear lets go to the Think and check it out.
Himmmm lets try it again, will those saft nicads rejuvenate
at all like the lead floodeds, no way...drives about 2 feet
after sitting some 2 hours. Ok lets see what out options are.
Ok lets push 2000 lb. uphill wile aclerating ..that lasted
for about a foot.
Try pulling car idea, no tow or tie points. Best placed if
push came to shove tie a chain or rope around the rear axle.
OK not good. Why not go down the hill and knock on the Neighbors.
Knock Knock ,,,who's there Hi we were wondering if we could buy or have
some electricity as our electric car has ran out. Oh I see you drive
up the hill all the time I love that car its so quite and cute.
Exchange names and so forth. Turns out out he had no 240 outlets
anywhere in
the house but hay no problem he's an electrician.
I can just go down hill so more, oh no lets open up the service
panel and you clamp onto the mains. Cool I say. I'll be right back.
So I return with the avcon box and alligators. What luck I mean
this guy really likes this. He pulls out the old AC clamp meter
not more 6 amps wires barley get warm. While we wait we talk about
electrical stories. How when a tree fell it knocked the power main to
neutral and it back feed through a hose across the street from me.
Causing a loud humming sound the folks there got worried so called the
fire
department who promptly showed up and cut the mains to the house.
Ok that's fine. What's that smell.. oh is that smoke I see coming from
our wash room ? It is. Luckily the fire truck was in front and I asked
the nice fireman to put out a fire in my house. He comes right over with
one of those cool carbon dioxide extinguisher. We both see the cause
of the fire a gas flex supply line between
the dryer and the wall is glowing red like a common heating element and
ignited
the wall behind it. This has become the return path. Fire department
calls
Power Co. they kill that section or part of the system. Ok now what ! I
hear
water noise. My god its flooding. The water heater pipes and
their rubber orings got eaten buy the amps monster chewing through any
path in my
home Fireman says oh my god Iv never seen anything like this. Luckily
for
me I was able to get everything back on line. Turns out before I bought
our
house the pluming was replaced with copper from galvanized and they
never
moved the ground wire, it was on 30 feet of abandoned pipe. So I jack
hammered
for 4 hours an 8 foot ground stake. Bonded the pipes panels etc and had
the city
electrician sign off the permit. Best news was able do accomplish this
for no
more than a hundred bucks and the fire damage was a light scorch a
little sanding
and paint did the trick. But the story my new electrician friend told me
was pretty wild.
Its about the shocking shower stall. The Power Co. transformer had
managed to engage on a city
drain pipe that would give you that tingling feeling with the zest soap.
True story.
I have a few more now.
Danny...
--- End Message ---
