EV Digest 2630
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(CARB kowtows overcome automaker and Bush admin lawsuit)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(2 EV Chargers @ Sunnyvale Caltrain station from Charge! grant $)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(VEVA asks to allow EVs to HOV and park for free)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(Attorney complains GM took his EV1 away)-long
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(Pregnant golf carts passed by bicyclists, doors extra)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN(REVA EV now cheaper, gov cuts EV excise duty 50%)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: charging cycle
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: ampabout
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric Scooters
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: LiIons order time
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Two more scooters on Ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Horizon Batteries alive again?/What happens when you substitute sealed for
unsealed?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: battery charging
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: charging cycle
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Two more scooters on Ebay
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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EVLN(CARB kowtows overcome automaker and Bush admin lawsuit)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/5307732.htm
Posted on Mon, Mar. 03, 2003 story:PUB_DESC
California all but abandons electric car requirements
By the Mercury News
In a historic shift, the state of California announced today a
series of new rules that largely abandon the state's 12-year
commitment requiring automobile companies to build and sell electric
cars.
The California Air Resources Board said electric car technology has
not lived up to its promise, and that instead, state smog officials
will allow hybrid cars, including the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic and
other soon-to-be released models, to qualify under its clean car
rules.
Since 1990, California has led the nation in pushing for purely
electric cars. But after spending billions, automakers still could
not build an electric car that could travel more than about 100
miles without needing recharging and sell for under $35,000.
Hybrid cars, by comparison, cost about $20,000, run on a
gas-electric system that delivers 50 miles per gallon or more, emit
almost no smog, and don't need recharging.
Today's move, which was criticized by some environmentalists, also
is expected to help the state overcome a lawsuit by the automakers
and the Bush administration, which argued that California was
forcing Detroit to build costly electric cars that had little
consumer interest.
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EVLN(2 EV Chargers @ Sunnyvale Caltrain station from Charge! grant $)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/5274409.htm
Posted on Thu, Feb. 27, 2003 story:PUB_DESC
SOUTH BAY
[...]
SUNNYVALE
Grant to help pay for two charging stations
The city of Sunnyvale has received a $3,500 grant from the Bay Area
Air Quality Management District that will go toward the purchase and
installation of two electric vehicle charging stations in the
downtown multi-modal transit station.
The funds come from the transportation for clean air program, called
the Charge! grant. The city applied for and received 40 percent of
the cost to buy and install the two chargers, to be installed in the
parking garage at the Sunnyvale Caltrain station at Evelyn Avenue
and South Frances Street.
The total cost of the two charging stations is $8,747. Matching
funds are available in the current budget.
The San Francisco Bay Area falls under the ``non-attainment area''
in meeting federal ozone standards. To help meet those standards,
the California Air Resources Board has issued a
zero-emissions-vehicle mandate that requires increasing electric
vehicle sales over time.
Sunnyvale Mayor Julia Miller said that during her four-plus years on
the board of the air management district, the city has received more
than $13 million for clean air funding.
[...] From Mercury News staff reports
[ http://www.ci.sunnyvale.ca.us ]
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EVLN(VEVA asks to allow EVs to HOV and park for free)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
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--- {EVangel}
http://vancouver.cbc.ca/template/servlet/View?filename=bc_veva20030227
Electric car drivers call for free parking
WebPosted Feb 27 2003 09:23 AM PST
VANCOUVER - Owners of electric cars says they should be given a
break by municipal officials for their environmentally-friendly
vehicles.
The Vancouver Electric Vehicle Association (VEVA) says electric cars
should be able to park free at metered spots in the Lower Mainland.
VEVA spokesperson Lawrence Harris also says they should be allowed
to drive in the HOV lanes.
Harris says there are currently 100-150 electric cars on the road in
the Lower Mainland. And that special perks would encourage more
drivers to consider buying an electric car.
"What we're after is the promotion of environmentally friendly
vehicles. I think when the number of these get on the road that
approaches an issue for things like city revenues and stuff like
that, then we've accomplished our goal."
"There are companies in the Vancouver area that are working to
produce these vehicles. It would be really nice to get the public to
take notice."
* INTERVIEW: The Early Edition's Rick Cluff speaks with Lawrence
Harris. (Runs 4:47) Click to play
[44kbps http://vancouver.cbc.ca/ram/r1van.ram ]
Harris says there is no formal proposal for city councils yet, but
says his group is working toward one.
He points out California has already adopted initiatives like this,
with special stickers to identify vehicles as electric cars.
[ VEVA - EAA Chapter http://www.veva.bc.ca/
VANCOUVER ELECTRIC VEHICLE ASSOCIATION
VANCOUVER EVA
Web Site: http://www.veva.bc.ca
Contact: Haakon MacCallum 604-258-9005 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Mailings: P.O. Box 3456, 349 W. Georgia St., Vancouver, BC V6B3Y4,
Canada
Meetings: 3rd Wed./month, 7:30 pm
Location: 3750 Kitchener St., BC Transit Operator's lounge a block
off Boundary, on the east (Burnaby) side of the street).
If the front door is locked, try the side door around to
the left. All are welcome to join us beforehand
(18:00-18:30) at the White Spot, 4129 Lougheed Hwy:
north-east corner of Lougheed Hwy & Gilmore (first traffic
light east of Boundary & Lougheed). ]
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EVLN(Attorney complains GM took his EV1 away)-long
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--- {EVangel}
http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_NEWS_nacars03.efa9.html
Fuel switch
Automakers pull plug on electric cars after success in slowing the
drive for low-emission vehicles
03/03/2003 By DAVID DANELSKI THE PRESS-ENTERPRISE
Barrington Daltrey loves his leased electric car.
It's quiet. It's cheap to run and maintain. The sporty two-seater
EV-1 puts out no pollution as it zips him to his job as an attorney
in Riverside.
Related: Driver feels short-circuited
But soon Daltrey will go back to buying gasoline and adding to
Southern California's haze of smog. General Motors isn't renewing
leases for the EV-1.
"August is when I lose mine," Daltrey said. "Most of the other
people have already lost theirs. It's a shame."
The EV-1 and other freeway-worthy electric cars are going the way of
the eight-track tape player.
Automakers have stopped production, and leased cars are being taken
off California streets.
State and industry strategies have shifted to low-pollution hybrids
-- cars that use gasoline and electricity in combination -- and a
new generation of much cleaner gasoline vehicles as well as natural
gas cars, such as Honda's Civic GX.
Kurt Miller/The Press-Enterprise
Barrington Daltrey gets behind the wheel of his General Motors
EV-1 at his Riverside home. Daltrey says the electric vehicle is
inexpensive to run, doesn't require gas stations and needs no oil
changes: "It's a great car."
The reality falls far short of the vision adopted by California
regulators in 1990. In that scenario, 2003 was to be the year that
10 percent of new cars sold in California would have no emissions.
Lawsuits filed by automakers and dealers with support from the Bush
administration barred the state from enforcing the quotas. The
California Air Resources Board is drafting new clean-car regulations
that they say would better withstand legal challenges and offer
flexibility to automakers.
Athough the 10 percent quota was never enforced, air pollution
regulators and environmentalists say it pushed the auto industry to
design and build cleaner cars.
"It's been enormously successful in pushing the technology," said
Roland Hwang, a policy analyst for the Natural Resources Defense
Council, a national environmental group.
Still, zero-emission vehicles are needed now, Hwang and other
observers said.
Unprofitable cars
The South Coast Air Quality Management District had a rude awakening
in December when it was disclosed that the state had been grossly
underestimating the amount of pollution produced by cars and
trucks.
Southern California might not meet a federal deadline to bring
lung-irritating ozone pollution down to healthy levels by 2010.
Inland communities, especially Crestline, Redlands, Fontana, the
Perris Valley and the Banning area, suffer the brunt of the region's
ozone pollution, according to district data. Missing the deadline
could cost the region billions in federal transportation dollars.
Daltrey said the answer is in his Canyon Crest garage.
"These cars are here," he said.
But industry officials say the electric cars are as flawed as they
are clean. They are too expensive; the batteries alone cost more
than $30,000, said a General Motors spokesman. They take hours to
charge. Their range, a little more than 100 miles, is too little for
most consumers, they say.
That was the problem for Riverside County, which gave up three
electric Ford Ranger pickup trucks because they could not travel far
enough between charges, county spokesman Ray Smith said.
Auto manufacturers didn't like the bottom line.
"We explored the electric car as an option, but it was not a good
business for us," said Gina Pasco, a spokeswoman for Nissan USA,
which stopped making its Altra EV a little more than a year ago.
The same is true for General Motors, spokesman Dave Barthmuss said.
Kurt Miller/The Press-Enterprise
General Motors is taking back about 700 EV-1s leased in California.
"We have a responsibility to the shareholders to be a profitable
enterprise," he said.
General Motors, which spent more than $1 billion developing and
marketing the EV-1, is taking back about 700 of the vehicles leased
to people in California, he said.
An undisclosed number are expected be used by GM employees at a
company facility in Honeoye Falls, in a pristine region of upstate
New York, according to New York's Department of Environmental
Conservation. Eight will go to New York State agencies.
The cross-country relocation will help GM meet New York State's
zero-emission requirements. Next year, 10 percent of new cars sold
in New York must have no or very low emissions, a state spokesman
said.
Catalyst for improvements
Several industry officials described the electric cars, despite the
drawbacks, as a vital step in the evolution of clean cars.
Other observers said that California's zero-emission mandate,
originally set in 1990, combined with the high cost of making
electric cars, forced the auto industry to develop hybrid cars and a
new generation of efficient gasoline-powered cars.
Technology developed for today's electric cars will be used in clean
cars of the future. Drive-train technology used in General Motors'
EV-1, for instance, gives the company a head start in developing
future fuel-cell cars, Barthmuss said. Such cars use hydrogen to
generate electricity.
In December, Honda announced delivery to the city of Los Angeles of
the nation's first fuel-cell car certified for road use. The company
expects to lease 30 fuel-cell cars in the United States and Japan
within three years but has no plans to sell them to individuals,
Honda officials have said.
Barthmuss said GM plans to mass-market fuel-cell cars by 2010.
But James Kliesch, co-author of the "Green Book," a guide that rates
cars' and trucks' friendliness to the environment, said he thinks it
will be more like 20 or more because it would take at least that
long to put the fuel and production mechanisms in place to offer
such vehicles to a mass market.
David Modisette, executive director of the California Electric
Transportation Coalition, said that waiting for fuel-cell cars means
waiting years for zero-emission vehicles.
"They are saying, 'Don't make cleaner cars now because we will have
a cleaner technology in the future,' " he said. "We need clean cars
now."
Rule changes backfire
California's Air Resources Board worked hard to accommodate
automakers, changing quota rules in 2001 to give credits for making
hybrids and other cars with highly fuel-efficient engines, said
Hwang, of the NRDC environmental group.
But the strategy backfired. Automakers and the Bush adminstration
later argued in federal court that the state was, in effect,
regulating fuel economy and that only the federal government can do
so, according to court papers.
A judge in Fresno agreed. An injunction now bars the state from
enforcing zero-emissions mandates.
That leaves the auto industry with no incentive to sell or lease
electric cars, Modisette said.
"They make a lot of money selling larger gas-guzzlers," he said.
"They only made a few of the electric vehicles. But you can't make
only a few cars and make money."
John DeCicco, who co-wrote the "Green Book" with Kliesch, said
consumers in recent years could choose from as many as six
freeway-worthy electric vehicles. But the 2003 guide models lists
only one: the Toyota RAV4 sport utility vehicle.
The guide already is outdated.
"We just discontinued sales of that vehicle," Toyota spokeswoman
Ming-Jou Cheng said.
That leaves consumers with only the neighborhood electric vehicle --
a low-speed car similar to a golf cart -- as an option. NEVs are
still available, but cannot be used on freeways.
Reach David Danelski at (909) 368-9471 or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
===
http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_NEWS_naside03.f2fe.html
Driver feels short-circuited
EV1: An Inland attorney who leases the electric car wishes that GM
wasn't taking it back in August.
03/03/2003 By DAVID DANELSKI THE PRESS-ENTERPRISE
When electric cars hit the marketplace in the late 1990s, Barrington
Daltrey was eager to sign on the dotted line.
Daltrey, a Riverside attorney, calls himself an "early adapter"
who's ready and willing to be the first to use new technologies.
He's also an ardent environmentalist. He sees the need to clean up
Southern California's air as a matter of life and death. "It's
killing us," he said.
He wanted to do his part. But leasing and hanging onto his General
Motors EV1 became an ordeal he never expected.
He first sought one in 1999 at Saturn of Loma Linda. None were on
display. Kurt Miller/The Press-Enterprise Barrington Daltrey gets
behind the wheel of his General Motors EV-1 at his Riverside home.
Daltrey says the electric vehicle is inexpensive to run, doesn't
require gas stations and needs no oil changes: "It's a great car."
In the dealership lobby, he waited more than a half-hour while a
salesman unearthed the business card of an EV1 specialist based in
Santa Ana.
Daltrey tracked down the specialist and agreed on the telephone to
take over a $440-a-month lease of an EV1 in the Bay Area. Three
months later, without so much as a test drive, he picked the EV1 up
at Chino dealership.
About a week later, GM sent a letter telling Daltrey not to charge
the car because of an electrical hazard. The lease, he was told,
would be terminated because it would be too costly to repair the
chargers.
He and about 30 other EV1 enthusiasts lobbied the California Air
Resource Board for help to keep the cars. Despite the trip to
Sacramento, a flatbed arrived at his home and took the car away.
Kurt Miller/The Press-Enterprise General Motors is taking back about
700 EV-1s leased in California.
He stayed in touch with GM, saying he still wanted an EV1.
"They never communicated well," he said. "They never said when and
if I would get it back."
More than a year later, in August 2001, GM agreed to lease him a
used EV1 for two years for $208 a month. The automaker will take
back the car this summer when the lease ends.
"I will be one of the last EV1 owners," Daltrey lamented.
The car is quiet and accelerates quickly, he said. It's range of
about 140 miles wasn't a problem, he said, since round-trip to work
is about 10 miles. His family uses his wife's gasoline car for
longer trips.
The EV1 also is cheap to run, doesn't require gas stations and needs
no oil changes, he said. "It's a great car."
As part of a Taft Elementary School science fair project, Daltrey's
10-year-old daughter, Ashley, calculated that the EV1 uses 37 cents
worth of electricity for a 10-mile trip. The same trip in the
family's Lincoln LS costs $2.04 in gasoline, Ashley found.
Daltrey said the only problem has been getting the EV1 serviced four
times a year. The dealership, he said, has kept the car as long as
10 days while trying to locate a mechanic who knows how to work on
it.
David Danelski can reached by email at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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EVLN(Pregnant golf carts passed by bicyclists, doors extra)
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http://www.kypost.com/2003/03/03/car03-03-2003.html
This car has a charge
But doors will cost you extra
Post staff report
It looks like a pregnant golf cart, but it's a car -- sort of.
It is a so-called "neighborhood electric vehicle" and Kim Hempleman
of Fort Thomas, Ky., loves it.
"Although I do get a little intimidated if a bicycle tries to pass
me," she said.
Hempleman's GEM -- an acronym for the maker, Global Electric
Motorcars -- certainly can be overtaken by a cyclist since its top
speed is, uhh -- well -- a blazing 25 miles per hour.
By law, the vehicle can be driven only on roads with speed limits of
35 mph or lower. Another limitation is that the GEM can travel only
about 50 miles before it has to be recharged.
But there's the beauty of it, said Hempleman: It is recharged, not
refueled.
With gasoline prices soaring, an electric car makes economic sense.
Prices for regular gasoline in the tri-state were more than $1.70
per gallon last week. A year ago, regular gasoline was about $1.30 a
gallon.
"I just plug it into an extension cord overnight, and it's ready to
go the next day," Hempleman of her car. "I've not noticed any
increase in our electric bill."
Hempleman drives her four-seat GEM to work at the Veterans
Administration Nursing Home in Fort Thomas and also to run errands
and do the grocery shopping.
However, she hasn't been driving it much this winter. It doesn't
have any doors. Except for a roof, it is open.
"That is a big drawback," she conceded. Removable doors are an
option on new models.
Hempleman bought her slightly used GEM from a man she and her family
met on a vacation last autumn in Put-In-Bay, Ohio. She paid $7,000
for it.
New ones cost around $9,000, said David Raizk, who works for a GEM
dealer in Wilmington, Ohio. GEM officials say Wilmington is the
nearest franchise to Greater Cincinnati, although it's possible
there may be local dealers in the near future because the GEM
company is now owned by DaimlerChrysler.
Raizk, employed by Bill Marine Ford, a Ford and Chrysler dealer,
said he has sold eight GEMs in the past year and a half.
While Chrysler is stepping up its marketing efforts, it still must
convince folks that the vehicle is for streets, not golf courses.
"People are going to have to get over the idea that they are golf
carts," said Raizk. "They are not golf carts. They have suspension
systems and they are very drivable. They're legal on the streets and
they are licensable."
Getting a license was an adventure for Hempleman, one of the few
Kentucky owners of an all-electric vehicle.
"It took several hours to get a license because the computer kept
rejecting some of the information about the vehicle," she said. "The
computer did not accept the fact that a vehicle had no cylinders and
no doors."
Hempleman's vehicle operates on six batteries, and she admits she's
not sure what she should do if there's a malfunction. "My husband is
an electrician; he's my back-up plan," she said with a laugh.
Raizk, the GEM dealer, said he isn't sure about service procedures
because the vehicle is fairly new. GEM officials offer service
advice by telephone, fax and the Internet and say replacement parts
can only be purchased from local dealers, not the factory in Fargo,
N.D.
Hempleman said she has no complaints so far.
"I'm 100 percent satisfied with it," she said. "Wherever I go,
people ask me about it and I recommend it."
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EVLN(REVA EV now cheaper, gov cuts EV excise duty 50%)
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/uncomp/articleshow?artid=38918826
Car makers quick to drive in lower tags
TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SATURDAY, MARCH 01, 2003 04:14:02 AM ]
NEW DELHI: Finance minister Jaswant Singh drove in some cheer into
the car market with his proposal to cut excise duty on passenger
cars by 8 per cent.
Industry insiders pointed out that this cut would mean a cool Rs
10,000 reduction on the sticker price of India's bread and butter
car Maruti 800.
Though car makers are still computing the final effects of the
excise cut and the imposition of one per cent Natural Calamity
Contingent Duty (NCCD), dealers told The Times of India that the
final sticker price of all vehicles would witness almost 6 per cent
drop.
"But in certain cases, the final gain to the consumer would be even
less because we and dealers of other brands are withdrawing certain
sops, including the free first year insurance," says RK Gupta of the
city-based Gautam Motors.
For instance, till February 28, Maruti Zen came with almost 13,000
discount that included Rs 10,000 worth of free first year insurance
premium.
So, even with a Rs 15,000 cut in prices, the effective gain to the
consumer would be a mere Rs 2,000 as he would now have to pay Rs
10,000 towards insurance.
"There's surely a lot of gain for buyers as far as the Maruti 800 is
concerned. On most other cars, they will only have a limited
advantage," he added.
While car makers said they were still computing the final details,
sources pointed out that cars like Esteem and Ikon would witness
almost Rs 25,000 drop in tags, while the prices of Baleno and Accent
would drop by nearly Rs 35,000, and that of Honda City by almost Rs
40,000. On the HM Ambassador, it would translate to around Rs
18,000-20,000 saving for the consumer.
Alongside this luxury of cheaper cars, customers will now have to
brace up for added transportation cost in view of the additional
cess on petrol and diesel. Singh has proposed the additional cess to
fund the Centre's national highway development project.
On the other hand, the government has also streamlined the
definition of completely knocked down (CKD) kits and completely
built-up units.
Under the new definition, imported cars and cars assembled from
semi-knocked down (SKD) kits would now attract 61 per cent duty,
while the duty on CKD operations would be limited at 26 per cent.
The minister, however, maintained the import duty on second hand
cars at 105 per cent. The government also brought down the excise
duty on electric vehicles from 16 to eight per cent.
Reacting to the move, REVA Electric Car Company managing director
Chetan Maini said, "we will reduce the prices by Rs 13,000-18,000
with immediate effect".
This would bring down the price of the base model of the REVA
electric car to Rs 2.35 lakh.
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Hi Veena
This is a interesting question and I'll be interested in others ideas
The reason for starting with constant current is that when the batteries are
low they will take a lot of amps which could burn out wires pop barkers and
burn out the charger ,so the constant current is for the charger not the
batts. If you kept putting in a constant current the voltage would keep
going up ,cooking the life out of the batteries. so the charger is set at a
fixed voltage and once the batteries reach that voltage the current starts
going down. As they go into this part of the charge the current keeps
dropping as the batteries fill up the last amp hours(ah). as they get older
they will take more current and the voltage might not get so hi. This really
isn't equalization which isn't done every charge. Equalization can take a
lot more time and a higher voltage. It's a little like cooking , You don't
cook everything the same and you don't charge all batteries the same.Some
cook on a fire made form trash others cook in fine kitchens.
Steve Clunn
Now cooking with PFC 20
----- Original Message -----
From: "veena" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev discussion list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:02 PM
Subject: charging cycle
> hi all
>
> 'constant current and then constant voltage, then equalisation charge with
> 10% the charging current' - is this the only charging cycle that is used
in
> all evs? or is this the most widely used?
> why is it a constant current and then a constant voltage one?
>
> veena
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope to have replacement US145s coming this week. While
all my EV chargers (PFC and Zivan) do a finishing charge,
I made sure the pack is balanced (or as good as it is
gonna get with four weaker batts).
Yesterday, I headed South to my former Mt. View work
site (my old stomping grounds). I pulled into the 'one
and only' private EV parking spot (the one I had arranged
for). The whole site was almost vacant. hp had pulled out
in another co$t saving effort from this leased building,
and moved all my former co-workers to a Cupertino hp
building (formerly compaq, and tandem before that, etc.).
But before I plugged in, I checked the voltage
of each battery with my heater on (drawing 20 amps
puts my pack under load for a real life reading).
Yup, the same four were weaker than the rest.
[This EV spot was put in way before any EV charging
standards, so those connectors should 'not' be
considered for any EV charging station]
I plugged in my L5-30 (120VAC 30 amp twist-lock)
adaptor to the outlet and routed power to one of my
120VAC Zivan K2 chargers. It was pushing 11 amps into
my pack : sweet :
While I waited, I worked on replacing my car radio
(the scratchy volume pot is just too old, and just
weird enough not to be replaceable). GM made the
older Blazer series with a shallow car radio well.
It is difficult to fit a standard radio in with out
it sticking out and bumping the shifter. So I need
a car radio that isn't as deep as most are. Any radio
will do. All of them will pick up my controller on the
AM band when driving, or hear the chopper circuit when
charging.
Well, the nice radio I was trying to put in, does not
fit, too deep, back it goes into the box. My neighbor
gave me a radio out of his GM van to try (he is gutting
it). I have figured out the wiring already, and I just
need to 'splice and dice' all the connections.
My son showed up (as prearranged), so I could give him
back his PC I had just rebuilt and reloaded (again. Yea
I know, that's what Dads are for. Family blows them up,
and we fix them. Good Ol' Dad will fix it, he can fix
anything!).
I left my vacant former work site, passing the huge
dumpsters full of junk the company had bought but never
used as they dismantled all the cubical partitions.
I pulled in at Cupertino to the private EV charging spot
have permission to use. There was a RAV4 EV in front of
the ics-200 and they were plugged in (?). On closer
inspection, they had the AVCON handle fed into the mostly
rolled up passenger side rear window, plugged into an AVCON
adaptor. There was a TAL small paddle charger plugged
into the 14-50 of the adaptor, and the TAL paddle cord
was fished through the mostly rolled up front passenger
window to the front of the RAV4 EV. The TAL leds said the
RAV4 EV was fully charged, but you do not reach in
someone else's car.
I went to another spot I know of and connected 'my'
AVCON adaptor to their ics-200. My PFC-50 was pushing
37 amps into my 132 VDC pack :sweeter:
People were gawking by the car that had power cord
running into it. But their attention soon changed
back to trying to keep the job they have and they
moved on.
I pressed some palms of acquaintances, and yak'd awhile
as amps pushed into my pack. It was good to see them
again (and possibly for the last time if I move).
When I pushed the large red stop button on the ics-200
the synth-o-woman's voice spoke that I had been connected
for 1.5 hours (how time flys). ics-200 has way too much
bell and whistle circuity for things you don't need,
and to keep you from getting power you need (" power
exceeded " message when a Zivan charger is connected).
I left there having put back the 50 ahrs I had used. Because
of the weaker batteries my 100 ah pack is now down to 50.
So, I cruised El Camino Real (a main drag) back North
at a constaint speed. It would run by Otmar's EV charging
if the weaker batts acted up. But they didn't and I made
it back OK.
I pulled into a store close to my home. After my purchases
and returning to my EV, the little old lady standing behind
me said with a Latina accent " Oh ... El�ctricos ...
Electric ", as I got in my EV (getting out of her way to
get in the passenger side of her huge family sedan).
I thought she might be thinking the 'Electric' decal I
have on my driver's side meant I was an Electrical
company, I said to her, "Yes, No gasoline ..."
Her eyes opened. "No gas? ..."
I said, "No gas, no engine, no smog, no high price, ..."
She turned to Mama (who was already in the drivers seat,
and was peering through the steering wheel to see
out over the dash), and said "Eh, no gasolina ..."
I lost a lot of the rest, as the rapid fire Spanish was
too quick for my HS Spanish skills. But the gist of it
was she was telling Mama about my car did not use
gasoline and it ran on Electricity.
She turned back to me as she stepped into the passenger
seat about to yank on the huge heavy door, " I will
tell my husband. He always complains about the gas prices
and having to fix the car."
I waved goodbye, and backed out quickly as I did not need
to 'warm up' my engine. I left Mama negotiating the
backing out of her parking spot as I left of the lot.
So, who knows. If we plant enough 'EV cause' seeds, we
might see a latino EV driver, or better yet a latino
owned EV conversion business.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why does the Morad 1500 have a higher GVW? I believe it can hold up to 372
pounds. Thanks Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: Electric Scooters
> The EVT-4000e is a nice scooter. A friend of mine from the EVA/DC club
> purchased one a couple months ago and he really likes it.
>
> It can seat two people up to 270 pounds.
>
> It shares the same hub motor and controller as the MoRad 1500 (aka the
> EVT-168).
>
> The EVT-4000e has higher amperage batteries then the MoRad 1500 and
EVT-168,
> I believe. The EVT-4000e has more storage as well.
>
> Parts and Service. No problem. I was able to get a new EVT controller for
a
> MoRad 1500 not to long ago. The controller can unbolt rather easily and
> parts for EVT scooters should be easily available.
>
>
> Chip Gribben
>
> http://www.skootercommuter.com
>
>
> on 3/3/03 1:54 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:48:41 -0500
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Subject: Electric Scooters
> >
> > I've heard a lot of good things about the Morad 1500, and I like it. In
> > looking around on the web I saw this one
> >
> > http://www.nycewheels.com/evt4000e.html
> >
> > It is an EVT400-e. Anyone know anything good/bad about these?
> >
> > James
> >
> > James F. Jarrett
> > Information Systems Associate
> > Charlotte Country Day School
> > (704)943-4562
> >
> > Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers. - Leonard Brandwein
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Please share results after a few months of ownership. Range, charging
techniques etc... Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "ev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:00 PM
Subject: LiIons order time
> All,
>
> Few people responded to my initial group purchase offer,
> but may be by now someone else decided to take advantage of it.
> I'm placing order within next two weeks regardless, so
> if you want to join and [the cash is] ready, please
> respond off list for details, whether you responded
> first time (few weeks ago) or not.
>
> This is my last email to the list with this offer,
> I won't take any more list's bandwidth for this
> too specific topic.
>
> Thanks all,
> Victor
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mr Jarret are you listening? Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:58 PM
Subject: Two more scooters on Ebay
>
> Hello All
>
> Hoping I am not pushing the advestising envelope here.
>
> But...
>
> They are good deals with low reserves.
>
> Check um out.
>
> Xootr eX3:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2715066663
>
> Rad2Go 48V Hot Rod:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2715086864
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
>
> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is this the Panasonic technology? I am using 4 more volts of 8v sealed
batteries. They are a little old but are holding a charge long enough to
drive up and down my street and test the cart. When using an old contactor
drive is using sealed batteries that give off their charge faster a bad
thing for these old buggies? It does seem peppy. But I smell something
burning. The cable to a couple of batteries was hot. Should I stick to
flooded batteries in an old cart? Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Horizon Batteries alive again?
> http://www.evworld.com/databases/shownews.cfm?pageid=news010303-04
>
> Noticed that Horizon Batteries may be back soon. Anyone
> know anything about these guys? Google gave me some
> interesting info:
>
> Long Cycle Life - The patented co-extrusion process results in a lead
> grain structure significantly finer than found in traditional cast
> grids. The use of a high strength glass fiber bundle eliminates the need
> for common grid-strengthening additives such as calcium and antimony.
> These features result in superior resistance to grid corrosion that can
> significantly limit battery life. Introduction of the proprietary EPS
> process has resulted in further increases in deep discharge cycle life
> (c/1 to 80% DOD) of 750 cycles average, with over 900 cycles maximum,
> using production batteries.
>
> Low Cost - Advanced automated stacking and other manufacturing processes
> maximize productivity and quality. Using well-established lead-acid
> battery supply infrastructure offers reduced unit costs.
>
> Light Weight - The co-extrusion of lead over a glass fiber bundle
> eliminates 67% of the lead required in a standard cycling battery plate
> resulting in a 25-50% weight reduction compared to standard batteries.
> Production batteries using the Horizon® C2M™ technology have displayed
> over 40 Wh/kg of specific energy and 380 W/kg of specific power.
>
> -Dave
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unless you live somewhere that experiences temperatures that exceed 100
degrees F, then cooling Lead-Acid batteries is seldom a problem.
Actually what most folks are concerned with is heating them.
Lead-Acid batteries perform best when their temperature is above 80
degrees F. Below 80 you start losing range and power. Above 80 and you
get better range and power but their life gets shorter. Racers often
keep their batteries around 120 degrees because that gives best power
without getting into thermal runaway (a condition where the batteries
temperature sours and it's internal resistance drops causing it to draw
more and more current which causes more and more heat)
So if your batteries temperature starts getting above 100 degrees then
you should worry about cooling, otherwise it's probably not worth the
hassle.
P.S. Unless you live where it's REALLY cold, insulating your battery
pack is probably enough to keep the temperature above 80 degrees if you
drive it every day.
On Mon, 2003-03-03 at 22:10, veena wrote:
> thank you Mr. Lee Hart for that very clear explanation.
> i have one more question.of what order would be the battery temperature be
> while charging an ordinary deepcycle lead acid battery? (assuming we dont
> overcharge)
> we are having four 12V 100Ah battery pack and i want to know if it will be
> sufficient to cool the batteries by providing ducts alone. the batteries
> will be occupy the space which the rear seats originally occupied.
> thank you
> veena
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> 'constant current and then constant voltage, then equalisation charge with
> 10% the charging current' - is this the only charging cycle that is used in
> all evs? or is this the most widely used?
> why is it a constant current and then a constant voltage one?
>
No it is not. This is a charging cycle designed for lead-acid
batteries. I know it's not the right method to charge NiCads or NiMH and
it's probably not right for any other technology.
It's also not the only way to charge Lead-Acids. Some chargers only do
a two step method (constant current and the constant voltage) because
it's simpler. And some do a taper charge (current falls pretty much
over the whole charge cycle) because that doesn't require any brains in
the charger at all, not a good way to charge but you can get away with
it on flooded lead-acids (they are pretty forgiving of charge method)
The constant current part is because that is the max current the charger
can provide. It's possible (and perhaps even better) to start constant
voltage from the start, but the battery will draw so much current at
first that the charger might need to provide hundreds of amps. This is
VERY expensive to do and the benefits are small.
So you charge constant current until the voltage climbs to the set point
for that type of battery: usually 2.4-2.47V per cell for floodeds,
2.35-2.38V for gel cells, and anywhere from 2.4 to 2.5V per cell for
AGMs.
You then hold it at this point until the current drops below some
percentage of battery capacity, this varies somewhat but generally 2% or
so.
You can then either continue to hold it at this voltage point for
another couple hors (two step charging) or you can hold the current at 1
or 2% and let the voltage do whatever it wants (three step, like what
you were asking about).
Or you can even stop charging the moment the current falls below 2% and
not do the finishing charge. This leaves the batteries a little hungry
(they are not fully charged). then once a week or so you do an
equalization (you need to do this anyway) that brings all the batteries
up to full charge.
If you do this the batteries performance will drop a little, but you get
longer life from them. This is because while a finish charge is
necessary to fully charge the batteries, it also damages them slightly.
In case you haven't noticed from the proceeding, with lead-acid
batteries every thing is a compromise, usually between better
performance and longer life.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, listening. Looked at, can't use.
I know I'm dreaming as the technology for what I want is kinda hard to find
(read impossible or very expensive).
I want this for running errands to the store and the like. The problem is
the nearest store to my house is about 2 miles one way. Ideally, I want an
electric motorcycle/scooter that has a REAL range (with my weight) of about
15 miles. That way I can use it at my farm. The nearest store to the farm
house is about 6 miles.
I'm constantly having to run over to home depot or the tractor supply for a
handful of parts that would easily fit in a single shopping bag or backpack.
This would be ideal.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
If at first you don't succeed, you must be a programmer.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:32 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Two more scooters on Ebay
Mr Jarret are you listening? Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:58 PM
Subject: Two more scooters on Ebay
>
> Hello All
>
> Hoping I am not pushing the advestising envelope here.
>
> But...
>
> They are good deals with low reserves.
>
> Check um out.
>
> Xootr eX3:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2715066663
>
> Rad2Go 48V Hot Rod:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2715086864
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
>
> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
--- End Message ---
