EV Digest 2631
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Two more scooters on Ebay
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Standard Public Charging Station
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Two more scooters on Ebay
by "Paul Humphries" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: EVLN(Attorney complains GM took his EV1 away)-long
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: battery charging
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: charging cycle
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: LiIons order time
by Joseph Vaughn-Perling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Electromagnetic Drive?
by "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Electromagnetic Drive?
by "Harry Houck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Electric Scooters
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: EVLN(Attorney complains GM took his EV1 away)-long,. and other Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: two more scooters on Ebay
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Electromagnetic Drive?
by "Humphrey, Timothy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Two more scooters on Ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Now I do have a commuta car that is in need of a lot of work. I spoke to
Mitch Oats some time ago (and a couple of others I think) about getting
together on a day or two this spring/summer to look the old girl over and
start trying to get her on the road.
Any takers?
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
If at first you don't succeed, you must be a programmer.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
-----------------------
Hi All, Did I say electric vehicle charging, Oh, I meant RV outlet, yeh
that's the ticket, uh, oh I meant outside welding outlet, yea, that's the
ticket! Yea, that's what we have here, a generic welding outlet that you can
plug your car stereo into ;-)
------------------------
Yeah Rod, yeah, thats the ticket, yeah, :^D
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought 5 of the cheap Chineese scooters recently off the importer, via an
eBay sale, for �100. All were new but had minor electrical faults which were
easilly repaired.
My intention was to use one myself but although it was fine on the flat it
had very little power for hills so two were sold to a neighbour (actually I
swopped them for an Austin Mini - all legal and roadworthy for my son !) for
the price I paid for the lot !
They were 250 watt motors running on 24v.
I'm now using the other parts to build a twin motor unit so it'll be 500
watts and an aftermarket controller.
Like I say - the cheap scooters are OK for the flat but forget any hills -
even for children
Paul Humphries,
Stoke-on-Trent,
Staffs.,
UK.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: Two more scooters on Ebay
> Yep, listening. Looked at, can't use.
>
> I know I'm dreaming as the technology for what I want is kinda hard to
find
> (read impossible or very expensive).
>
> I want this for running errands to the store and the like. The problem is
> the nearest store to my house is about 2 miles one way. Ideally, I want
an
> electric motorcycle/scooter that has a REAL range (with my weight) of
about
> 15 miles. That way I can use it at my farm. The nearest store to the
farm
> house is about 6 miles.
>
> I'm constantly having to run over to home depot or the tractor supply for
a
> handful of parts that would easily fit in a single shopping bag or
backpack.
> This would be ideal.
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
>
> If at first you don't succeed, you must be a programmer.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Two more scooters on Ebay
>
>
> Mr Jarret are you listening? Lawrence Rhodes.......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:58 PM
> Subject: Two more scooters on Ebay
>
>
> >
> > Hello All
> >
> > Hoping I am not pushing the advestising envelope here.
> >
> > But...
> >
> > They are good deals with low reserves.
> >
> > Check um out.
> >
> > Xootr eX3:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2715066663
> >
> > Rad2Go 48V Hot Rod:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2715086864
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
> >
> > My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> > http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
> >
> > Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
> > http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BTW, this story covered more than half the front page of yesterday's
Press-Enterprise, including a large photo of the lessor smiling out the
window of his EV1.
Amazing how people who balk at $42,000 (in hand-made quantity) for an EV1
won't bat an eye at a $50,000 "Hummer 2" or a $40,000 BMW Z4.
Tim
--------
EVLN(Attorney complains GM took his EV1 away)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.pe.com/localnews/stories/PE_NEWS_nacars03.efa9.html
Fuel switch
Automakers pull plug on electric cars after success in slowing the
drive for low-emission vehicles
03/03/2003 By DAVID DANELSKI THE PRESS-ENTERPRISE
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
veena wrote:
> Thank you Mr. Lee Hart for that very clear explanation.
You're most welcome.
> Of what order would be the battery temperature be while charging an
> ordinary deepcycle lead acid battery (assuming we don't overcharge)?
Lead-acid batteries are about 90% efficient at modest charge-discharge
currents. For example, if you discharge 5KWH, then you put back 5.5KWH
to recharge. The 10% extra or 0.5KWH is mostly heat in the batteries.
Now, how much does 0.5KWH of heat warm up the batteries? Not very much;
certainly 10 deg.C or less even if the batteries are perfectly
insulated. The problem is that you need to remove that heat before the
next charge-discharge cycle. If you do not, every cycle will make the
batteries get warmer and warmer until they get too hot to use.
So, your EV needs a way to ventilate and cool the batteries. Normally,
all it takes is to have some free air circulation around them. You do
not even need a fan as long as the air temperature is less than 35 deg.C
or so.
> We are having four 12V 100Ah battery pack and i want to know if it
> will be sufficient to cool the batteries by providing ducts alone.
> The batteries will be occupy the space which the rear seats
> originally occupied.
I have two concern here. First, if all the windows are closed and the
car is parked in the sun, the temperature inside will get very hot -- so
hot that the batteries could overheat just from the sun.
If there are vents but no fan, then there is no way to know that air
will move through the vents, battery box, and back out. The air could be
stagnant; not moving; so you get no cooling.
Third, batteries vent and generate hydrogen. You do not want this gas to
collect inside the car. You want to be sure it is vented outside.
If you put your batteries inside the car, then put them in a closed box,
and use vents and a little fan to pull in outside air. This fan should
run when you are charging, when you have power to run it.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
veena wrote:
> 'Constant current and then constant voltage, then equalisation
> charge with 10% the charging current' -- is this the only charging
> cycle that is used in all EVs? Or is this the most widely used?
No; this is only one of many charging cycles. A better one would be
1. Constant current: Charge with as much current as your charger
can supply, until the battery voltage reaches 2.35-2.40 volts
per cell (14.1-14.4 volts for a 12v battery).
2. Constant voltage: Hold the voltage constant at this value, until
the current stops dropping or drops to 2% to 4% of your battery's
amphour rating (2-4 amps for a 100 amphour battery).
The battery is now fully charged. You can stop here most of the time.
Measure each battery voltage after 8 hours or so; they should match
within 0.05 volt. If they don't, then you should perform a third step;
equalization. You can equalize on every cycle, but it will shorten
battery life.
3. Equalization: Keep charging for 1-2 hours at a low current of
2%-4% of the battery's amphour capacity (2-4 amps for a 100 amphour
battery). Stop after 1-2 hours, or when the voltage stops rising,
or when the voltage exceeds 2.5 volts per cell (15 volts for 12v
battery).
> why is it a constant current and then a constant voltage one?
The constant current step is for the charger's protection; the battery
doesn't care. The constant voltage step is to keep the battery from
gassing too much. The equalization step is to allow extra time to finish
charging the slower batteries by slightly overcharging the ones that are
already full.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
Please don't apologize for this offer. I for one am encouraged by just
seeing it on the list. Though still relatively new to this
industry/hobby, I am excited by the advanced work you and others are doing
in the field. The opportunity to ride along on your purchases is a big
benefit of this list. The trick is to give as much advanced notice as
possible to keep the buying pool open for long enough to make it a good
value for everyone.
We are up against some major forces in undertaking these projects. We
need such co-operation to survive. So thank you for posting the offer. I
only wish I had the know-how to take advantage of it this time around.
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on March 03, 2003 3:00PM
> All,
>
> Few people responded to my initial group purchase offer,
> but may be by now someone else decided to take advantage of it.
> I'm placing order within next two weeks regardless, so
> if you want to join and [the cash is] ready, please
> respond off list for details, whether you responded
> first time (few weeks ago) or not.
>
> This is my last email to the list with this offer,
> I won't take any more list's bandwidth for this
> too specific topic.
>
> Thanks all,
> Victor
--
____
__/o|__\~ ~ ~
`@ [EMAIL PROTECTED](=
http://www.SoCalEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a curious item we've been discussing on the Vintage Bus list....
See http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/117263.jpg
-Harry in Fresno
(sorry if this is a duplicate)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom and Thanh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:19 AM
Subject: [T2] The answers or conjectures re the Electric Beetle Engine
> Enclosed is some info I received, which may be of interest to those
who'd
> like to someday have an electric engine on their bus, and/or were
curious
> about what it was.
> Tom
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ontrees M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 11:08 PM
> Subject: What is it, the answer. I was right!
>
>
> Hi There,
>
> Wow! I guess I was right about the motor being fully electric. It is
> designed to power the car.
>
> Here are some of the emails I have received (from the owner and
another list
> he has going.)
>
> ----------------
>
> First I would like to thank you all for the overwhelming response i
got on
> the VW motor. Next I would like to answer some of the many questions
got.
>
> Well some of you asked if it was a joke. As far as I know it is not
a joke,
> it is someones invention.
>
> Some asked if it runs, and the answer id I do not know. Haven't
tried
>
> Asked about the fuel delivery... I have been told it is completely
electric
>
> Many asked if it is for sale... I don't what I have so can't decide
on what
> it's fair value may be, but I may soo take offers depending what I
find.
> The problem is the case is original so it will not go, just the
electric
> set
> up. I also may sell the whole car or trade, and it is in Excellent
shape.
>
> I have had 2 electrical engineers look at the car and they confirmed
it was
> fully electric. It has a hommade distributor, which also acts as a
> throttle, it is turned by the accelerator cable, and returned by a
spring,
> potentially incressing the power. I would like to have someone
eventually
> get it going, but I have no need to own an electric car.
>
> Now that you all know more lets hear some more feedback
>
> Aaron
>
> ------------
>
> Thanks for the reply I was not sure if I should just send this back
to
> the owner or every one on the list.
>
> I have been discussing this on a forum for a few days now and a
couple
> of the guys actually figured out that it was infact an electric
engine
> of some description and have there theories on how it may work before
I
> paste them onto this email just wondering if u could tell me the
size
> and number of batteries, and what is the operating voltage??
>
> Some of the things people posted on the Forum (Performance forums)
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------
> I have given this some more thought overnight , it is probably the
most
> cunning, ingenious and efficient electric car engine I have ever
seen.
>
> The biggest problem with any electric vehicle is controlling the
power
> to the electric motor. The load and speed range are both going to be
> very high, also the battery voltage will vary as it discharges.
>
> To work properly you really need a continuously adjustable
electronic
> control attatched to the accelerator pedal. Now while this can be
done,
> it is complicated, wastes a lot of energy as heat, is expensive to
> build.
>
> The most efficient form of control switches the power on and off
very
> fast, this is called switched mode operation.
>
> Now how I think this engine works is as Tuna suggests. There are
four
> electromagnets that operate as linear motors. Instead of pistons,
the
> electromagnets work by attracting solid iron pistons inside the
hollow
> barrels which have electrical coils inside.
>
> Now there would be some very clever features here. First because the
> engine is a horizontally opposed boxer engine, the massive weight of
> solid iron pistons would be completely balanced. Also the
electromagnets
> could be operated together as the pistons move togeter. This would
> greatly simplify the control system.
>
> Now the idea is that the elecromagnets would only be energised for a
> very brief time for low power requirements, and for longer time when
> more torque is required. The switching on and off of the power could
be
> very slow (in electronic terms) as switching is inly required once
per
> engine revolution. The SCRs on the large heatsiks are the perfect
thing
> to use for something like this.
>
> But the cleverest feature might be how the electromagnets are cooled.
As
> the pistons move in and out, reed or flap valves in what you might
call
> the cylinder head, pump air through the barrels in one direction
only.
> You would need an air cleaner to prevent grit and dirt from wrecking
the
> engine just as with any other engine. But the air is for cooling
only.
> The air exits through the large crankcase breather next to the
> distributor.
>
> Where is SECOH, he is another power electronics engineer like
myself.
> Any more electronics people out there, this is most interestin.
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------
>
> have never seen a linear motor driving a crankshaft before, but the
guy
> that built this up must have been a very clever person indeed.
>
> The more you look at this the more ingenious it actually is, not
only
> from the mechanical aspect, but also the simplicity and efficiency
of
> the electronic control.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------
>
> If it works the way I think it does, all four cylinders are powered
> (fire) together simultaneously, and there would be a flywheel to keep
it
> turning. If it stopped, it may not always self start, so it would
> probably need to idle, and still require the stock starter motor to
kick
> it into life.
>
> It would be like a petrol engine to drive, requiring clutch and
> gearchanges for best performance. The torque curve would be
completely
> flat, and it might rev a lot harder than you might think as well.
> Absolutely fascinating.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------
>
> The more I study that photo, the more convinced I become that it is
an
> electric car of some sort. There are pairs of heavy wires going into
the
> base of each of those ribbed cylinder looking things.
>
> Also the three large heatsinks carry very large silicon controlled
> rectifiers (SCRs). The only purpose these could possibly have is the
> control of very large amounts of power.
>
> Coupling four individual rotating electric motors to a stock VW
> crankcase makes no sense at all. Why not replace the whole engine
with a
> single large motor straight onto the gearbox. Unless of course the
four
> motors are actually linear motors that push and pull on the stock
crank
> and conrods.
>
> Apart from no exhaust, there is no cooling system either. Any sort
of
> internal combustion engine requires both. What else could it possibly
be
> ?
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------------
>
> think the original VW was only about ten horsepower or something.
> Electric cars are usually slow, efficient, and underpowered anyway.
A
> practical electric car could be even less powerful and still be
quite
> usable.
>
> There are so many ways that these electromagnets might be
configured.
> The best way might be to build it like a loudspeaker drive, where
the
> coil moves in and out of a fixed radial magnetic field.
>
> A loudspeaker gives a very linear push pull action over maybe 15mm
of
> travel. You could make something that worked over about 80mm, or
> whatever the piston stroke is on a VW.
>
> A half decent loudspeaker can dissipate pehaps 100W continuously
without
> any cooling system at all, but the coil would be just about smoking.
If
> you forced high velocity air through the small magnetic gap around
the
> drive coil, the cooling for far higher power might be quite easy.
>
> As for the magnetic field strength, if the internals are made from
mild
> steel or cast iron, it would be totally saturated by two teslas I
would
> expect. It may use permanant magnets, or electromagnets for field
> excitation, who knows ?
>
> The SCRs and the gauge of wiring looks like it might handle about
fifty
> amps continuously, but the battery voltage may also be quite high,
> probably far more than 12V.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry bout that, meant 370 not 270
Actual GVW of EVT-4000e is 372 like the MoRad 1500
This is a nice scooter because it can carry two passengers
http://www.evtamerica.com/pic2Riders.htm
On 3/4/03 10:34 AM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 05:08:34 -0800
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Electric Scooters
>
> Why does the Morad 1500 have a higher GVW? I believe it can hold up to 372
> pounds. Thanks Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: EVLN(Attorney complains GM took his EV1 away)-long
> BTW, this story covered more than half the front page of yesterday's
> Press-Enterprise, including a large photo of the lessor smiling out the
> window of his EV1.
>
> Amazing how people who balk at $42,000 (in hand-made quantity) for an EV1
> won't bat an eye at a $50,000 "Hummer 2" or a $40,000 BMW Z4.
>
Hi All;
Tim, I don't think anybody wasould balk if General Murders said" You
can BUY your EV-1 for ONLY 42K" Bettya a hellova lot of EV-1 pilots would
write a check, pretty darn fast, if they could? But, no, we hafta have the
hiways cluttered up with these Hummer things. Hummer? Bummer! Ah POO! And
the new every 5 minutes, SUV's coming on stream, like Porsche?. Shame!
Howcum Porsche hasta get in this act?? Maybe Rolls Royce hasn't been
effected with this plague? But it is fun to think what they would call
it<g>! Grand Britania Enpire, series ? Royal Magisty Chariot? Silver
Constellation? If they did.
Batteries? Anybody see the announcement in the EV news about the
reserection of the Horizon Battery. Sounds like it would be affprdable and
more forgiving of abuse than Li Ons and Evercells, although the jury is
still out on these. Joe Smalley, I know yur testing an Evercell to death. In
your humble opinion, duz it have promise as a traction battery? If you were
testing a Lead Acid battery this way, would it still be speaking to you, by
now, or have gone south, daze ago? I'm sorta curious how Victor will make
out, as our test pilot for Li ons Sorta in J. Wayland's sticker on the
Zombie" We Break Things So You Don't Have To" Thanks for stepping up to the
plate Victor. I would imagine ya need a charging system, the good old Bad
Boy ," metered "zillion foot extension cords are out? Wanna see Sheer's
Accord in daily driver service , someday. Victor, didn't you have Evercells
in yur Honda, too? I guess you find them wanting, as yur going for Li ons?
My Few Thoughts worth;
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James,
Have you checked out the EVT-4000e that was mentioned?
Also, have you checked out the Lepton Oxygen Scooters?
This scooter has Nickel-Zinc batteries and regen. The batteries are down in
the floor for a low CG and there is storage under the seat for a helmut.
Speed is governed to 35 mph.
This is an Italian built scooter.
Chip Gribben
http://www.skootercommuter.com
On 3/4/03 10:34 AM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:37:07 -0500
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Two more scooters on Ebay
>
> Yep, listening. Looked at, can't use.
>
> I know I'm dreaming as the technology for what I want is kinda hard to find
> (read impossible or very expensive).
>
> I want this for running errands to the store and the like. The problem is
> the nearest store to my house is about 2 miles one way. Ideally, I want an
> electric motorcycle/scooter that has a REAL range (with my weight) of about
> 15 miles. That way I can use it at my farm. The nearest store to the farm
> house is about 6 miles.
>
> I'm constantly having to run over to home depot or the tractor supply for a
> handful of parts that would easily fit in a single shopping bag or backpack.
> This would be ideal.
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The second that image popped onto my screen, I remembered reading a long
long time ago in a pop science type of magazine about a concept to fashion a
"multi-cylinder" electric motor using a crankshaft. I wonder if that was it.
The basis IIRC was to use electrics in place of IC cylinders. That sure
looks like the concept i pictured in my head at that time. Solenoid drive
maybe? Boy how do you time something like that?
Stay Charged!
Hump
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Harry Houck [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 1:06 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Electromagnetic Drive?
>
>
> Here's a curious item we've been discussing on the Vintage
> Bus list....
>
> See http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/117263.jpg
>
> -Harry in Fresno
> (sorry if this is a duplicate)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom and Thanh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 6:19 AM
> Subject: [T2] The answers or conjectures re the Electric Beetle Engine
> > Enclosed is some info I received, which may be of interest to those
> who'd
> > like to someday have an electric engine on their bus, and/or were
> curious
> > about what it was.
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ontrees M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 11:08 PM
> > Subject: What is it, the answer. I was right!
> >
> >
> > Hi There,
> >
> > Wow! I guess I was right about the motor being fully electric. It is
> > designed to power the car.
> >
> > Here are some of the emails I have received (from the owner and
> another list
> > he has going.)
> >
> > ----------------
> >
> > First I would like to thank you all for the overwhelming response i
> got on
> > the VW motor. Next I would like to answer some of the many
> questions
> got.
> >
> > Well some of you asked if it was a joke. As far as I know it is not
> a joke,
> > it is someones invention.
> >
> > Some asked if it runs, and the answer id I do not know. Haven't
> tried
> >
> > Asked about the fuel delivery... I have been told it is completely
> electric
> >
> > Many asked if it is for sale... I don't what I have so can't decide
> on what
> > it's fair value may be, but I may soo take offers depending what I
> find.
> > The problem is the case is original so it will not go, just the
> electric
> > set
> > up. I also may sell the whole car or trade, and it is in Excellent
> shape.
> >
> > I have had 2 electrical engineers look at the car and they confirmed
> it was
> > fully electric. It has a hommade distributor, which also acts as a
> > throttle, it is turned by the accelerator cable, and returned by a
> spring,
> > potentially incressing the power. I would like to have someone
> eventually
> > get it going, but I have no need to own an electric car.
> >
> > Now that you all know more lets hear some more feedback
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> > ------------
> >
> > Thanks for the reply I was not sure if I should just send this back
> to
> > the owner or every one on the list.
> >
> > I have been discussing this on a forum for a few days now and a
> couple
> > of the guys actually figured out that it was infact an electric
> engine
> > of some description and have there theories on how it may
> work before
> I
> > paste them onto this email just wondering if u could tell me the
> size
> > and number of batteries, and what is the operating voltage??
> >
> > Some of the things people posted on the Forum (Performance forums)
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> > -----------------------------------
> > I have given this some more thought overnight , it is probably the
> most
> > cunning, ingenious and efficient electric car engine I have ever
> seen.
> >
> > The biggest problem with any electric vehicle is controlling the
> power
> > to the electric motor. The load and speed range are both going to be
> > very high, also the battery voltage will vary as it discharges.
> >
> > To work properly you really need a continuously adjustable
> electronic
> > control attatched to the accelerator pedal. Now while this can be
> done,
> > it is complicated, wastes a lot of energy as heat, is expensive to
> > build.
> >
> > The most efficient form of control switches the power on and off
> very
> > fast, this is called switched mode operation.
> >
> > Now how I think this engine works is as Tuna suggests. There are
> four
> > electromagnets that operate as linear motors. Instead of pistons,
> the
> > electromagnets work by attracting solid iron pistons inside the
> hollow
> > barrels which have electrical coils inside.
> >
> > Now there would be some very clever features here. First because the
> > engine is a horizontally opposed boxer engine, the massive weight of
> > solid iron pistons would be completely balanced. Also the
> electromagnets
> > could be operated together as the pistons move togeter. This would
> > greatly simplify the control system.
> >
> > Now the idea is that the elecromagnets would only be energised for a
> > very brief time for low power requirements, and for longer time when
> > more torque is required. The switching on and off of the power could
> be
> > very slow (in electronic terms) as switching is inly required once
> per
> > engine revolution. The SCRs on the large heatsiks are the perfect
> thing
> > to use for something like this.
> >
> > But the cleverest feature might be how the electromagnets
> are cooled.
> As
> > the pistons move in and out, reed or flap valves in what you might
> call
> > the cylinder head, pump air through the barrels in one direction
> only.
> > You would need an air cleaner to prevent grit and dirt from wrecking
> the
> > engine just as with any other engine. But the air is for cooling
> only.
> > The air exits through the large crankcase breather next to the
> > distributor.
> >
> > Where is SECOH, he is another power electronics engineer like
> myself.
> > Any more electronics people out there, this is most interestin.
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > have never seen a linear motor driving a crankshaft before, but the
> guy
> > that built this up must have been a very clever person indeed.
> >
> > The more you look at this the more ingenious it actually is, not
> only
> > from the mechanical aspect, but also the simplicity and efficiency
> of
> > the electronic control.
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > If it works the way I think it does, all four cylinders are powered
> > (fire) together simultaneously, and there would be a
> flywheel to keep
> it
> > turning. If it stopped, it may not always self start, so it would
> > probably need to idle, and still require the stock starter motor to
> kick
> > it into life.
> >
> > It would be like a petrol engine to drive, requiring clutch and
> > gearchanges for best performance. The torque curve would be
> completely
> > flat, and it might rev a lot harder than you might think as well.
> > Absolutely fascinating.
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > The more I study that photo, the more convinced I become that it is
> an
> > electric car of some sort. There are pairs of heavy wires going into
> the
> > base of each of those ribbed cylinder looking things.
> >
> > Also the three large heatsinks carry very large silicon controlled
> > rectifiers (SCRs). The only purpose these could possibly have is the
> > control of very large amounts of power.
> >
> > Coupling four individual rotating electric motors to a stock VW
> > crankcase makes no sense at all. Why not replace the whole engine
> with a
> > single large motor straight onto the gearbox. Unless of course the
> four
> > motors are actually linear motors that push and pull on the stock
> crank
> > and conrods.
> >
> > Apart from no exhaust, there is no cooling system either. Any sort
> of
> > internal combustion engine requires both. What else could
> it possibly
> be
> > ?
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > think the original VW was only about ten horsepower or something.
> > Electric cars are usually slow, efficient, and underpowered anyway.
> A
> > practical electric car could be even less powerful and still be
> quite
> > usable.
> >
> > There are so many ways that these electromagnets might be
> configured.
> > The best way might be to build it like a loudspeaker drive, where
> the
> > coil moves in and out of a fixed radial magnetic field.
> >
> > A loudspeaker gives a very linear push pull action over maybe 15mm
> of
> > travel. You could make something that worked over about 80mm, or
> > whatever the piston stroke is on a VW.
> >
> > A half decent loudspeaker can dissipate pehaps 100W continuously
> without
> > any cooling system at all, but the coil would be just about smoking.
> If
> > you forced high velocity air through the small magnetic gap around
> the
> > drive coil, the cooling for far higher power might be quite easy.
> >
> > As for the magnetic field strength, if the internals are made from
> mild
> > steel or cast iron, it would be totally saturated by two teslas I
> would
> > expect. It may use permanant magnets, or electromagnets for field
> > excitation, who knows ?
> >
> > The SCRs and the gauge of wiring looks like it might handle about
> fifty
> > amps continuously, but the battery voltage may also be quite high,
> > probably far more than 12V.
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Consider an electric bike. It might be just what you need. Lawrence
Rhodes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: Two more scooters on Ebay
> Yep, listening. Looked at, can't use.
>
> I know I'm dreaming as the technology for what I want is kinda hard to
find
> (read impossible or very expensive).
>
> I want this for running errands to the store and the like. The problem is
> the nearest store to my house is about 2 miles one way. Ideally, I want
an
> electric motorcycle/scooter that has a REAL range (with my weight) of
about
> 15 miles. That way I can use it at my farm. The nearest store to the
farm
> house is about 6 miles.
>
> I'm constantly having to run over to home depot or the tractor supply for
a
> handful of parts that would easily fit in a single shopping bag or
backpack.
> This would be ideal.
>
> James
>
> James F. Jarrett
> Information Systems Associate
> Charlotte Country Day School
> (704)943-4562
>
> If at first you don't succeed, you must be a programmer.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 8:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Two more scooters on Ebay
>
>
> Mr Jarret are you listening? Lawrence Rhodes.......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 7:58 PM
> Subject: Two more scooters on Ebay
>
>
> >
> > Hello All
> >
> > Hoping I am not pushing the advestising envelope here.
> >
> > But...
> >
> > They are good deals with low reserves.
> >
> > Check um out.
> >
> > Xootr eX3:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2715066663
> >
> > Rad2Go 48V Hot Rod:
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2715086864
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
> >
> > My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> > http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
> >
> > Informational Electric Vehicle Links:
> > http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> >
>
--- End Message ---
