EV Digest 2643
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Thermal protection alarm! PFC forever!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: The limo EV is comming. Got half a mil?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: The limo EV is comming. Got half a mil?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) RE: Thermal protection alarm! PFC forever!
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Forklift Batteries in EVs?
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) EVLN (China's zinc-air Ebuses)
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Forklift Batteries in EVs?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: EVLN (China's zinc-air Ebuses)
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) END BANNER TAG PART 2 (NS)
by roden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) EV hope for the future
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) New to the list, with questions
by "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EVLN(China's zinc-air Ebuses)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Zinc-Air (was: EV1 insult on Jay Leno)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EVLN(China's zinc-air Ebuses)
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) status: List is down
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) status: Lost messages
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EV advocate opinions requested
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: MIT MGMT Course - "Electric Vehicles: Pipe Dream or Product of the Future?"
EVs are Disruptive Technology
by "Johanna and Stan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV1 insult on Jay Leno
by Joseph Vaughn-Perling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New to the list, with questions
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) If ICE drivers knew what EV drivers know
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: New to the list, with questions
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New to the list, with questions
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: New to the list, with questions
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: New to the list, with questions
by "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: New to the list, with questions
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) EVLN(Playa Vista's 1st homeowner given a GEM)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 10/03/03 14:10:25 GMT Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> The Citroen has legendary good brakes.
You mean they're very light to operate?
That doesn't necessarily make for good brakes.
A GOOD braking system should have the following features in ascending order
of importance.
The pedal should not require too much effort to operate.
The brakes should have sufficient heat capacity and/or cooling to give less
than a 50% increase in pedal pressure for a 1G stop after two such
decelerations from 70+ mph.
They should be progressive and easy to modulate. They should not have so
sharp an initial 'bite' as to make them useless on a slippery surface.
The power (not power assisted) Citroen brakes fall down badly on the last
requirement. On the other hand I recently drove a Citroen with brakes that
were exactly how I like them. I recently bought a 2CV for one of my projects
and towed it the fifteen miles home behind a friends Alfa Romeo 155 on the
end of a rigid link. This is just a pole used instead of a rope and the idea
is that as long as the driver of the towed vehicle keeps the link straight,
the tow vehicle can do all the braking. I've always found that its much
better to get the vehicle behind to do as much of the braking as is
practical. The 9.5" inboard discs and 7" rear drums of the 650Kg 2CV proved
quite able to stop both itself and 1300Kg of 155 Twinspark. A very hefty
shove was needed to haul this rig to a stop, but it did so with no problems
and without the extra cooling it would normally derive from the engine
cooling fan.
Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.exn.ca/Stories/2003/01/28/54.asp?t=dp Oops. Here is the URL.
Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How do they explain how you can drive 300km and yet recharge in 20 minutes?
Even best case would be:
150 watts/mile * .6 miles/km = 90 watts/km.
90 watts/km * 300km = 27000 watts or 27kw
even if partial recharge, say 20kw, in 20 minutes, would mean:
20 * 60/20 minutes = 60kwhr recharging!
The PFC-50 is able to pull 10kwhr from 220vac, but anything higher would
require some serious power, like over 440vac!
Once again, marketing spin reduces EV credibility.
-Ed T
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 4:13 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The limo EV is comming. Got half a mil?
http://www.exn.ca/Stories/2003/01/28/54.asp?t=dp Oops. Here is the URL.
Lawrence Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are other concerns as well do to parameter changes
of the components that can inadvertantly affect operation.
I was performing a HALT/HASS (Highly accelerated life test/Highly
accelerated stress screening) on my Baldor inverter design.
At -45 degrees C the microcontroller freaked out and would not
operate properly. So the 'brain' was frozen and the controller
would not work. Luckily it didn't blow the control, but this
situation could occur depending on the control design.
You can count on further global warming to prevent this situation
from occuring in the future :-)
Rod
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:01 AM
To: EV
Subject: Re: Thermal protection alarm! PFC forever!
Just a guess here but the silicon in the power transistors is a crystal
(or at least a crystalline structure). Perhaps there is a concern about
the crystal cracking due to the rapid temperature change from
sub-freezing to warm (with the power going through it).
> I have a question for the list gurus: Why have a thermal
> protection alarm for cold temperatures? Doesn't silicon like it
> cool?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Jay Donnaway wrote:
>
> You go John- forklifts can be a great way to create EV converts! This begs the
> question- why haven't I seen much
> discussion on the use of forklift batteries in conversions, esp. truck-based
> ones? Are they just too heavy on a watt-hrs/lb basis?
> [Jay Donnaway]
EV batteries need to be as powerful (Power density) and long lasting per charge (energy
density) as possible, while being as compact and light as possible, while also
providing
as long as possible cycle life.
Forklift batteries need to have only moderate power density, need strong energy
density,
though it's not nearly as important as it is with a road going EV, need to be heavy
(trust
me on this) for weight ballast, with super long lasting cycle life very high on the
list,
too.
Because of the needs of each vehicle, the road going EV vs the forklift, the batteries
are
vastly different, so each will not swap into the other without negative results.
Here's a comparison:
1300 ahr, 36V, 3740 lb. forklift battery (this is actually a small one)
2250 ahr, 36V, 3740 lbs. pack 60, Trojan T-105 6V batteries, consisting of 10 groups
of 6
batteries in series, all paralleled (10 X 225 ahr)
In an EV, the same weight forklift battery will give about half the range as pack of
golf
car batteries, have less power density, but would have greater cyclic life.
In a forklift, 60 golf car batteries could not come close to fitting in the same space
as
the one large forklift battery.... about half that number would fit, but then could not
give the much needed weight ballast that the 3740 lb. forklift battery does. Half the
number golf car batteries (that number could fit) would have far less cyclic life as
the
one large forklift battery has.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey!
I resemble that remark!
Are there dumb rednecks in Memphis, too?
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
(Little Rock, Arkansas ex-patriot
on 3/10/03 1:51 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> If they are the dumb, redneck type, I don't go
> into it at all.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any idea on size and cost of a 3000 amp hr 48 volt tubular lead acid
fork lift truck battery pack ?
I am going off grid in the fall and don't have room for 100 Trojan
T145's.
Thanks.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:16:26 +0000 John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Hello to All,
>
> Jay Donnaway wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> > You go John- forklifts can be a great way to create EV converts!
> This begs the
> > question- why haven't I seen much
>
> > discussion on the use of forklift batteries in conversions, esp.
> truck-based
> > ones? Are they just too heavy on a watt-hrs/lb basis?
> > [Jay Donnaway]
>
> EV batteries need to be as powerful (Power density) and long lasting
> per charge (energy
> density) as possible, while being as compact and light as possible,
> while also providing
> as long as possible cycle life.
>
> Forklift batteries need to have only moderate power density, need
> strong energy density,
> though it's not nearly as important as it is with a road going EV,
> need to be heavy (trust
> me on this) for weight ballast, with super long lasting cycle life
> very high on the list,
> too.
>
> Because of the needs of each vehicle, the road going EV vs the
> forklift, the batteries are
> vastly different, so each will not swap into the other without
> negative results.
>
> Here's a comparison:
>
> 1300 ahr, 36V, 3740 lb. forklift battery (this is actually a small
> one)
>
>
> 2250 ahr, 36V, 3740 lbs. pack 60, Trojan T-105 6V batteries,
> consisting of 10 groups of 6
> batteries in series, all paralleled (10 X 225 ahr)
>
> In an EV, the same weight forklift battery will give about half the
> range as pack of golf
> car batteries, have less power density, but would have greater
> cyclic life.
>
> In a forklift, 60 golf car batteries could not come close to fitting
> in the same space as
> the one large forklift battery.... about half that number would fit,
> but then could not
> give the much needed weight ballast that the 3740 lb. forklift
> battery does. Half the
> number golf car batteries (that number could fit) would have far
> less cyclic life as the
> one large forklift battery has.
>
> See Ya.....John Wayland
>
>
________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey!
I resemble that remark!
Are there dumb rednecks in Memphis, too?
J. Marvin Campbell
Culver City, CA
(Little Rock, Arkansas ex-patriot
There are dumb, redneck types everywhere. Unfortunately.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:28:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: EVLN(Playa Vista's 1st homeowner given a GEM)
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
EVLN(Playa Vista's 1st homeowner given a GEM)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.businesswire.com/cgi-bin/cb_headline.cgi?&story_file=bw.031103/230705622&directory=/google&header_file=header.htm&footer_file=
BW5622 MAR 11,2003 12:15 PACIFIC 15:15 EASTERN
( BW)(CA-PLAYA-VISTA) Playa Vista Presents Neighborhood Electric
Vehicle to First Homeowner News Editors/City Desks
PLAYA VISTA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 11, 2003--Symbolizing
Playa Vista's commitment to clean, alternative forms of
transportation, the company's president Steve Soboroff presented a
new GEM neighborhood electric vehicle to the community's first
homeowner, Dr. J. Michael Uszler, at a special ceremony held at
Capri Court, a collection of single-family homes inspired by 1940s
West LA architecture.
The GEM vehicle is manufactured by Global Electric Motorcars, a
subsidiary of DaimlerChrysler.
Gemcars are electric, zero emission vehicles that can carry two to
four passengers at up to 25 miles per hour. They plug into standard
110 volt wall outlets for charging, so Playa Vista residents will
not have to install or purchase any charging apparatus. A fleet of
GEMs is already in use at Playa Vista to transport people from the
Visitor Center to many different for-sale properties in the
development area south of Jefferson and east of Lincoln. The
leadership at Playa Vista is encouraging new residents to lease or
purchase GEMs through a special program developed with
DaimlerChrysler and its local Walter Buerge dealership in Santa
Monica.
"The use of electric vehicles and other low-emission
transportation solutions illustrates Playa Vista's drive to create a
dynamic new community with pioneering technology and an emphasis on
quality of life," Soboroff said. "They are fun to drive, good for
the community and reflective of our commitment to the environment."
"Playa Vista continues to be a leader in alternative transportation
and we are proud to be associated with this dynamic new community,"
said Rick Kasper, president, GEM. "On any given day, GEMs can be
seen shuttling visitors around the community, and we are excited to
watch as the program now extends to new homeowners."
About Playa Vista
Playa Vista is the newest residential community to be built in West
Los Angeles in the last 50 years. The community, located near the
beach, is designed by leading architects and is being constructed by
some of the nation's highest quality builders. Playa Vista places a
premium on environmental quality, restoration and preservation, and
conservation. The project is committed to sustainable development,
and has been recognized as one of five P.A.T.H. (Partnership for
Advancing Technology in Housing) communities in the United States.
About GEM
Global Electric Motorcars, the largest U.S. producer of street-legal
electric vehicles, has extensive experience working with planned
communities around the United States. The GEM neighborhood vehicles
have become a key mode of transportation in several locations around
the nation, including DC Ranch in Scottsdale, Ariz., Celebration in
Florida, and Bay Harbor in Michigan.
--30--TJJ/la* CONTACT: Sugerman Communications Group Dena Cook,
310/689-7537 KEYWORD: MICHIGAN FLORIDA CALIFORNIA ARIZONA INDUSTRY
KEYWORD: ENVIRONMENT ENERGY REAL ESTATE AUTOMOTIVE SOURCE: Playa
Vista
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
