EV Digest 2645
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: OT - Political noise on list
by "Walker, Lesley R" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: OT - Political noise on list
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) ADC Motor inspection and gear modifications
by "Alain St-Yves" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) ITT lithium ion battery project.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by "Humphrey, Timothy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by gail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) CalCars - A non-profit way to get EV's rolling
by John RA Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) 48V charger needed
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 48V charger needed
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 48V charger needed
by "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: 48V charger needed
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Future of LiIon
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Future of LiIon
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) A not so funny thing happened on the way to the EV
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: A not so funny thing happened on the way to the EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> If non-charter items are being sent through the SJSU
> EV List, the sysop needs to be notified. His email
> address is listed in the subscription procedure on
> http://geocities.com/ev_list
Oh. I think I see what happened. The Yahoo group has a setting
"anyone can post" - so the offending items have been spammed
directly to Yahoo, and nobody actually receives them from the
real listserv.
Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Obviously I've got too much
time on my hands.
--
Lesley Walker
LRW_at_clear.net.nz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] until 17 March
"[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
--- James R. Healey, USA Today
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone probably sent them directly to Yahoo rather than to the list
proper.
If you post on Yahoo it doesn't go out over the main list so the only
people who will see it are those few who use the Yahoo archive.
I know I certainly haven't seen either of those messages.
On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 20:11, Walker, Lesley R wrote:
> [ObEV: I'm going up to Auckland this weekend to see the electric 323
> that I'm probably going to buy. I have pictures but I can't put them
> on my website from here]
>
> Sam Harper asked:
> > Is something up with the list? I havent been getting _any_ emails.
>
> There has been a problem. As far as I can tell it seems to be back to
> normal now, although perhaps some messages were lost.
> See the Yahoo archive messages:
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/37120
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/37121
>
> I'm in digest mode, and I haven't detected any loss of messages (ie
> the digest sequence numbers haven't missed a beat). All the messages
> that I can see in Yahoo can be accounted for in the digests, up to
> the end of the contents list of digest 2643. (That digest does
> suffer from the "truncated digest" syndrome, but the subject lines
> are there.)
>
> Maybe there have been other messages that got lost and didn't make it
> to the digest or to Yahoo.
>
> And also..
>
> Roger Stockton wrote:
> > I'm happy to report that I didn't [yet?] receive either of those
> > messages (of course, I may also not have receive any number of
> > valid EVDL messages either...).
> >
> > Are you sure they really came from the list?
>
> Well... they appear in the Yahoo archive as messages 31745 and 31746.
> The actual content has been deleted now (somebody must have been
> quick off the mark) but they still appear in the article list. The
> next digest should be arriving sometime soon and I expect they will
> be in it.
>
> --
> Lesley Walker
> LRW_at_clear.net.nz
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] until 17 March
> "[Hybrid electric vehicles] are self-sustaining,
> as long as you keep putting gas in the tank."
> --- James R. Healey, USA Today
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[ref http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AE-List/message/3916 ]
This Slap to EV people who have invested in solar is insane.
How are people to do the right thing and change to running
their EVs off renewable energy, if puc allows this tax?
The amount of revenue they will gain is minimal.
The amount of destruction to new Solar installations, will
be huge.
The energy bill came from not being self-suffient. To turn
around and slap people who are trying not to be the problem
is just plain wrong (who is pushing for this, the texas
power companies?)
EV drivers that have Solar should fight this.
Hech everyone should fight this, its crazy.
How many items are we to knuckle under and swallow?
If tomorrow they try to put a tax on our EV energy
use that would be crasy too. The time to stop this is now.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.iit.edu/~ipro362/links.html. Small scale but who knows. Might
be some beta testing someone could get involved with. Lawrence Rhodes.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
------------------------------
[ref http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AE-List/message/3916 ]
This Slap to EV people who have invested in solar is insane.
How are people to do the right thing and change to running
their EVs off renewable energy, if puc allows this tax?
The amount of revenue they will gain is minimal.
The amount of destruction to new Solar installations, will
be huge.
The energy bill came from not being self-suffient. To turn
around and slap people who are trying not to be the problem
is just plain wrong (who is pushing for this, the texas
power companies?)
EV drivers that have Solar should fight this.
Hech everyone should fight this, its crazy.
How many items are we to knuckle under and swallow?
If tomorrow they try to put a tax on our EV energy
use that would be crasy too. The time to stop this is now.
-------------------------------
I totally agree Bruce, it is a sick and sad day to see this happening.
Download free sticker graphic:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/no_w.jpg
Get out and vote in 2004!
Oily Parrots OUT of the White House!
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What do you expect? We are talking about California after all.
On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 21:54, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> [ref http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AE-List/message/3916 ]
>
> This Slap to EV people who have invested in solar is insane.
> How are people to do the right thing and change to running
> their EVs off renewable energy, if puc allows this tax?
>
> The amount of revenue they will gain is minimal.
> The amount of destruction to new Solar installations, will
> be huge.
>
> The energy bill came from not being self-suffient. To turn
> around and slap people who are trying not to be the problem
> is just plain wrong (who is pushing for this, the texas
> power companies?)
>
> EV drivers that have Solar should fight this.
> Hech everyone should fight this, its crazy.
> How many items are we to knuckle under and swallow?
> If tomorrow they try to put a tax on our EV energy
> use that would be crasy too. The time to stop this is now.
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
>
--
EVDL
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, given this logic, it follows that if you *save* energy since 2001 then
you should pay a "efficiency tax". Since obviously you are not spending the
same amount on power from the utility.
And if you use *more* energy, then you should get a credit.
Hm. Thus if you use no energy (move out of state) they should confiscate all
your property, and if you use infinite energy it should be free.
Makes sense to me.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
> What do you expect? We are talking about California after all.
>
> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 21:54, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
> > [ref http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AE-List/message/3916 ]
> >
> > This Slap to EV people who have invested in solar is insane.
> > How are people to do the right thing and change to running
> > their EVs off renewable energy, if puc allows this tax?
> >
> > The amount of revenue they will gain is minimal.
> > The amount of destruction to new Solar installations, will
> > be huge.
> >
> > The energy bill came from not being self-suffient. To turn
> > around and slap people who are trying not to be the problem
> > is just plain wrong (who is pushing for this, the texas
> > power companies?)
> >
> > EV drivers that have Solar should fight this.
> > Hech everyone should fight this, its crazy.
> > How many items are we to knuckle under and swallow?
> > If tomorrow they try to put a tax on our EV energy
> > use that would be crasy too. The time to stop this is now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> >
> --
> EVDL
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Well, given this logic, it follows that if you *save* energy since 2001 then
> you should pay a "efficiency tax". Since obviously you are not spending the
> same amount on power from the utility.
it comes down to this: the utility companies have already put future income on
their books, so - in essence - by avoiding paying their rates, you're stealling
that money from the utilities... frankly, taxes aren't enough - all these
free-riders should be put in jail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the utility re-imbureses me the $25,000 it cost to install the PV array,
I'll gladly pay them $.025/khw for the electricity it produces.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Uzi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:36 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
>
>
> > Well, given this logic, it follows that if you *save*
> energy since 2001 then
> > you should pay a "efficiency tax". Since obviously you are
> not spending the
> > same amount on power from the utility.
>
> it comes down to this: the utility companies have already put
> future income on
> their books, so - in essence - by avoiding paying their
> rates, you're stealling
> that money from the utilities... frankly, taxes aren't enough
> - all these
> free-riders should be put in jail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This concept is totally opposite to what I would expect to be promoted
when there have been energy shortages in CA and other places. If energy
users can cut back on their demand and possibly even contribute to the
supply through a net metering system such as we have in NV for solar, it
would seem a benefit to the power companies who would not need to build
more plants, and to the power customers who could have the power left
unused by the solar owners. What about the million solar roof project?
Has that been abandoned? Charging EVs via solar eliminates the argument
that we are just moving the pollution from the streets to the power
plants.
I recently replaced my roof with the most energy efficient one I could
find and dramatically reduced my summer air conditioning power usage.
Would my roof now be taxed because it lowers my electric bill? What about
all of my compact fluorescent light bulbs?
Gail
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Christopher Zach wrote:
> Well, given this logic, it follows that if you *save* energy since 2001 then
> you should pay a "efficiency tax". Since obviously you are not spending the
> same amount on power from the utility.
>
> And if you use *more* energy, then you should get a credit.
>
> Hm. Thus if you use no energy (move out of state) they should confiscate all
> your property, and if you use infinite energy it should be free.
>
> Makes sense to me.
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello -
I am forwarding this for Felix Kramer, who is starting a non-profit group
called CalCars. You can find more information about the group in the letter
and by checking out their site, http://www.calcars.org .
There was a thread not too long ago about non-profits having a high
potential to make things happen with the automakers; Felix has already
invested in the concept and it is ready to roll.
Please give a look when you can.
thanks
JRAB
------ Forwarded Message
From: Felix Kramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:57:00 -0800
To: John RA Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: We can get near-EVs -- here's how, from CalCars
Despite heroic efforts by EV owners and supporters, many people, including
the media and the Air Resources Board are abandoning electric vehicles.
They're saying there's nothing between mild hybrids and far-away fuel-cell
vehicles.
We can show them how much demand there really is for much better cars.
A group of Californians have formed the California Cars Initiative
(CalCars), a non-profit startup aimed at demonstrating the market and
commercializing plug-in hybrids, followed by fully optimized zero emission
vehicles.
Plug-in hybrids can be all-electric for most or all local travel, and if
mass-produced, could lead to a return of EVs. I urge you to learn more
about CalCars -- at http://www.calcars.org -- and to support our effort to
move toward a better future.
Felix Kramer, Founder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For people not specifically focusing on EVs, following is the general
introductory message about CalCars:
PLEASE FORWARD this to individuals and email lists as you feel appropriate.
SUBJECT: How We Can Get Much Better Cars
We wish we could have cars and SUVs that didn't waste gas and dirty the
air. When highway-capable electric vehicles came along, we loved them,
although they did have limited range. They were briefly available and in
short supply, but now car companies have discontinued them.
The Toyota Prius and Honda Civic "hybrids" use some electric vehicle
technology. But their power ultimately comes from (mostly imported)
gasoline. We hear lots of talk now about fuel cell cars ... in 10-20 years.
Yet it's possible to do much better TODAY than these "mild" hybrids.
How about a vehicle that's totally electric when you commute or drive
locally, gets you in the car pool lanes, and has a small gasoline engine
for longer distances? Hybrids that you can plug in, when convenient, to a
regular outlet will be the best of both worlds. They'll be cleaner and more
efficient than anything else you could buy.
The technology has been proven. Auto makers could build plug-in hybrids
now, but they won't. Among other reasons, they claim there's no demand for
them. Enter the California Cars Initiative.
CalCars has a way to demonstrate there really is a demand for much better,
cleaner cars, and I support their strategy. With your and my help, we can
own these advanced hybrids. We can make this happen -- and get the kind of
car we really want!
Find out more at http://www.calcars.org
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Felix Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Founder California Cars Initiative
http://www.calcars.org
PO Box 61222 Palo Alto, CA 94306
cell 650.520.5555 voice 650.599.9992
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
------ End of Forwarded Message
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> This concept is totally opposite to what I would expect to be promoted
> when there have been energy shortages in CA and other places.
there were NO real shortages of energy in California... there were plant
outages which reduced online production at key times, but primarily the whole
shehbang was engineered by the energy brokers (taking advantage of the
ill-conceived deregulation laws - which some of the energy brokers actually had
a hand in writing, but one is welcome to dismiss that as a conspiracy theory if
so inclined)... the whole thing was a very ugly rip-off which effectively wiped
out California's big fat budget surplus
this is an issue that has VERY long-reaching consiquences - if off-grid power
generation is squashed here in CA, then it might be effectively killed off
nationally for decades to come...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have any advice for where to get a inexpensive 48V charger for
40AH SLA batteries?
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, without a doubt, this idea *completely* blows my marbles. A tax or
surcharge on EV registrations is without a doubt onerous, but at least has
some slight basis in fact (EV's do not use gas. Road construction is
financed via gas taxes. Therefore EV's do *not* contribute their fair share
towards road maint). This however is nothing more than a naked money-grab by
power companies.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the same question I have for my motorcycle. Here are the three
options I am running with all of which are very inexpensive.
Toshiba laptop chargers. These were previously discussed on this list and I
took to looking around the office and so far have scrounged up 5 of them.
They are rated at 15V and either 2 or 2.7 amps. I have mesured them drawing
over 4 amps without any serious side effects. These work well for modular
charging.
I picked up a cheap variac, 5 amp.
I will be making a Half Wave Bad Boy. 60 volts should be just about right.
My plan is to use the bad boy for bulk charging then switch over to modular
chargers for finish charging. The variac will be my backup.
This is for AGM (Optima or Hawkers) which I believe are considered SLA, but
perhaps you are using something a little different.
The cost for me has been
Laptop chargers Free for me, but I believe these can be picked up cheap on
Ebay.
Variac $20 plus rectifier donated by John W.
Bad boy ?? I still need to find the transformer I am going to use.
damon
From: "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 48V charger needed
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 12:28:36 -0800
Does anyone have any advice for where to get a inexpensive 48V charger for
40AH SLA batteries?
S.
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
> [ref http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AE-List/message/3916 ]
>
> This Slap to EV people who have invested in solar is insane.
> How are people to do the right thing and change to running
> their EVs off renewable energy, if puc allows this tax?
The same mentality as taxing hybrids for lost gas revenue:
You *must* buy power from us (as gas); if you don't, we
punish you for not providing revenue for us, thus destroying us.
The problem is these messages circulate in EVDL, nowhere else
(unless you act as Bruce suggests). Please do act, whining
here won't yield anything.
Does anyone know how exactly to act? Phone numbers/email
addresses/names?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try batterystuff.com - they seem to have the best prices.
Seth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon "Sheer" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:28 PM
Subject: 48V charger needed
> Does anyone have any advice for where to get a inexpensive 48V charger for
> 40AH SLA batteries?
>
> S.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The same mentality as taxing hybrids for lost gas revenue:
> You *must* buy power from us (as gas); if you don't, we
> punish you for not providing revenue for us, thus destroying us.
> The problem is these messages circulate in EVDL, nowhere else
> (unless you act as Bruce suggests). Please do act, whining
> here won't yield anything.
>
> Does anyone know how exactly to act? Phone numbers/email
> addresses/names?
http://www.webslingerz.com/jhoffman/congress-email.html
write your Representatives and Senators... the above URL will point you to your
national Congressional reps...
make a stink... telephone calls are the most effective; tell the person you're
talking to that you are a constituent and be prepared to concisely lay out the
issue... make it clear that this is a critical issue for you and that you
expect action to be taken
here is a URL to find representatives in the California State legislature
http://www.calvoter.org/legguide/
call 'em up, and make the case...
call every week; send faxes; send emails... encourage your friends and
neighbors to do the same
Democracy: use it or lose it
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This tax is simply a way to collect revenue. Kalifornia government
has a massive budget problem and needs every dime they can find.
They aren't very fussy about where they get money. My state of
Washington has a similar problem.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:54 PM
Subject: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
> [ref http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AE-List/message/3916 ]
>
> This Slap to EV people who have invested in solar is insane.
> How are people to do the right thing and change to running
> their EVs off renewable energy, if puc allows this tax?
>
> The amount of revenue they will gain is minimal.
> The amount of destruction to new Solar installations, will
> be huge.
>
> The energy bill came from not being self-suffient. To turn
> around and slap people who are trying not to be the problem
> is just plain wrong (who is pushing for this, the texas
> power companies?)
>
> EV drivers that have Solar should fight this.
> Hech everyone should fight this, its crazy.
> How many items are we to knuckle under and swallow?
> If tomorrow they try to put a tax on our EV energy
> use that would be crasy too. The time to stop this is now.
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Remember that you usually get what you pay for. I got the Battery Tender
48V/10A, and it has seemed fairly good so far, though I have not any long
term experience yet. It is twice as expensive as the Soneil 48V/4A, but it
will charge more then twice as fast. I figured my time was worth it.
I got mine from http://www.batterymart.com
At 02:28 PM 3/13/2003, you wrote:
Does anyone have any advice for where to get a inexpensive 48V charger for
40AH SLA batteries?
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The fundamental problem is that you are assuming there is a logical
basis for taxation. There isn't!
In this case, the utilities want/need more money. When demand drops, the
only way to get it is to raise rates, or invent extra fees. Raising
rates would produce loud complaints from everyone. So it's better to
create new fees that only affect a few people, who can't yell loud
enough to be heard.
gail wrote:
> This concept is totally opposite to what I would expect...
> If energy users can cut back on their demand... it would seem
> a benefit to the power companies who would not need to build
> more plants, and to the power customers who could have the
> power left unused by the solar owners.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> The fundamental problem is that you are assuming there is a logical
> basis for taxation. There isn't!
I don't have tax figures, but I actually can see the logic:
California pays you to ease CA power problems so as a nice side
benefit YOU are saving large amounts of money on electricity.
It is not fate that you're SO much better off than your neighbor now,
and CA paid for it, so all they're asking is share a part of your
savings with CA. You're still way better off, so what are you
complaining about? You want zero expense from your pocket AND
paying less for electricity than everyone else?
If you think about it, one should start complaining if this
hassle of putting PV in service provides no or insignificant
benefits to the owner. If you still have big benefits, even though
not as big as without tax, you can survive.
I'm not in CA, but if I get my PV system installed by state
and my electricity is nearly free, I'd happily pay 100% tax on
pennies I spend daily (and be FAR better off than without PV).
Now, I'm not in favor in such taxes, but think about it.
I have right to oppose ANY extra taxes on my electricity
only if I paid for PV myself. Otherwise you owe CA for
*your* well being, don't you?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I want to take this chance to ask the list's opinion, especial from those
that have seen new battery technologies come and go. Is LiIon the answer to
the EV range problem?
I personally think that LiIon pack could easily launch us beyond the 100
miles range, even for EV conversions. 100 miles seems to be the magic
number for the general public to accept. And, the availability of EV sized
LiIon batteries seems to be much better than other advanced battery
technologies. And, the new 42V automotive standard is sure to give a shot
in the arm for LiIon technologies since I read that many 42V based batteries
would be LiIon's.
What do you think?
Ed Ang
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--- Begin Message ---
> I want to take this chance to ask the list's opinion, especial from those
> that have seen new battery technologies come and go. Is LiIon the answer
to
> the EV range problem?
>
> I personally think that LiIon pack could easily launch us beyond the 100
> miles range, even for EV conversions. 100 miles seems to be the magic
> number for the general public to accept. And, the availability of EV
sized
> LiIon batteries seems to be much better than other advanced battery
> technologies. And, the new 42V automotive standard is sure to give a shot
> in the arm for LiIon technologies since I read that many 42V based
batteries
> would be LiIon's.
>
> What do you think?
I don't know.
Here are my thoughts:
1) Even NiZn and NiCad and NiMH launched us beyond the 100 mile range. With
really good engineering, LiON could probably take us past the 200 mile
range. But it doesn't seem that passing the 100 mile range (as QM has)
suddenly turns the public into readiness to accept EVs. I think a commercial
EV with a NiZN or NiMH pack would have more than acceptable range.
2) LiON involves rare metals (Lithium) unlike NiZn and NiMH and AlNaClNi,
therefore it may be somewhat difficult to make large scale production of
LiON battery packs as would be needed to mass produce EVs.
3) LiON batteries give off toxic smoke when they burn, and under certain
circumstances can catch fire during charging, at least that's the
understanding that I have. Hence, LiON EVs might be significantly more
dangerous than other technologies.
4) I have not seen any data on the feasability and cost of recycling lithium
from LiON batteries - it seems clear that whatever battery technology we end
up using for mass produced EVs would have to be easily recyclable, since
there might very well be millions of battery packs deployed.
5) LiON seems to be less forgiving than any other battery technology I have
studied. This would seem to be a considerable drawback.
6) LiON would seem to be more expensive than many other battery
technologies, which would also seem to be a drawback.
7) On the other hand, Nissan's LiON EV has phenomenal performance. The light
weight of LiON is definately attractive.
I'm not yet sold on LiON the way I am sold on NiZn, NiMH, and AlNaClNi. I
think the place for a LiON battery is a laptop, cell phone, or small EV like
a scooter or e-bike.
Just my 2 wh.
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This story is about a hybrid, but there is an EV tie-in, since I
was on EV business when the accident occurred.
I live in Edmonton, Alberta, where it is still very much winter.
I've been going back and forth to the cottage (50 km each way)
quite a bit to work on an EV project which is nearing completion
after a year and a half of struggle. So I had to go out last
night after supper because the body shop guy had dropped off some
newly painted parts and I wanted to bring them into the house
before today's expected thaw. It was snowing and there was quite
a wind, the temperature around -16C. No problem, says I, I have
snow tires. The Insight is a wonderful car for frequent trips
like that - I've averaged 4.0 l/100 km over 60,000 km since I got
the car 2 years ago. I figure that I've saved over 2000 liters of
gas. That's quite a bit when you consider that gas is 80 cents a
liter here and going nowhere but up. To say nothing of the tons
of CO2 that I'm saving for someone else to burn.
So here I am cruising along at about 90-95 km/hr (that's about 55
mph), snow blowing horizontally across my path and some nice jazz
playing on the wayland. In the blink of an eye, the left wheels
get caught in a row of the brown slushy snow that collects
between lanes when it is snowing, a row that had metastasized
into my lane like a cancerous ameba. (don't you hate metaphors
like that?). The car does a graceful counterclockwise 180 and
exits stage right, sliding sideways. Stage right was the ditch,
bordered by a low windrow made by the snowplows. The ditch was
about 4 feet deep but fairly wide, so that the edges were not
really very steep. Just before we hit the ditch I'm thinking "I
wish I had taken skid school." I tried to gently steer her
straight but the drag from the snow/slush was too great and
keeping her on the road was just not going to happen.
With the car now going sideways and backwards into the ditch, I
had little to say but "darn". When the driver's side wheels hit
the edge of the windrow, which was just beyond where the shoulder
turned to ditch, the car found a second un-natural degree of
freedom and made another 180, coming to a halt upside down
pointing back toward the road, about a foot from a big wooden
power pole. Sigh, this can't be good, I say to myself, or words
to that effect. What do I do now? Ah, turn off the ignition.
Next? Lights, turn off the lights. OK, now is there a way out of
here? Passenger sided door looked ok, only I'm hanging upside
down by the seatbelt. Through the spider-webbed but otherwise
intact windshield all I can see is snow, and the driver's door
was also in deep. So I figure the passenger door is a good bet
and it would be desirable to try to get out. I don't remember the
precise details of how I got from hanging by the seatbelt
to crouching on the headliner, but it involved some twisting and
dropping and did not involve any bodily injury. The door opened
easily and out I went feet first.
It took about an hour from the time of the accident till the AAA
guy came to put her right and haul her out of the ditch. It was
really cold in the wind, but the guy behind me let me wait in his
truck until the RCMP came and the cop stayed until the AAA guy
had got her out of the ditch.
So to take stock: The windshield is toast; looks like one of
those decorative crazed crystal glasses. The front of the roof is
dented from where it meets the windshield for about a foot front
to back by a foot and a half wide by a couple of inches deep. One
of the dome lights was jammed on but I was able to fix that by
pulling out the dome light assembly a bit. The radio antenna is
still on and undamaged. Surprisingly, the side of the car is
unscathed. Snow was packed in pretty tight in the wheel wells and
wherever, and there was a vibration in the suspension which
increased with speed, but she started right away, tracked
straight and the brakes were just a little bit soft, probably
from spillage of fluid. There was just a bit of oil spilled onto
the inside of the hood; the level was ok. The wayland resumed
belting out the tunes as soon as I turned her back on.
So I continued on my way, rescued the parts for the EV and put a
little air in one of the tires, shoveled some snow then drove
(slowly) back to the city.
After work I'll take her to the dealer to get the Insight
specialist to check her over then it's off to the body shop for
maybe a thousand or fifteen hundred bucks of fix 'er up.
Coulda been worse.
Mike Hoskinson.
-planning some really good battery hold-downs in the EV. Maybe a
lid on the battery box. :) Picture Mike hanging upside down in
the EV contemplating dropping into a growing pool of battery
acid. Yuk. I have little enough hair as it is!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree one hundred percent, but lets not forget to get reimbursed for
all those hours spent installing the system for those do-it-your-selfers.
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:50:41 -0000 "Humphrey, Timothy"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If the utility re-imbureses me the $25,000 it cost to install the PV
> array,
> I'll gladly pay them $.025/khw for the electricity it produces.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sam Uzi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:36 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
> >
> >
> > > Well, given this logic, it follows that if you *save*
> > energy since 2001 then
> > > you should pay a "efficiency tax". Since obviously you are
> > not spending the
> > > same amount on power from the utility.
> >
> > it comes down to this: the utility companies have already put
> > future income on
> > their books, so - in essence - by avoiding paying their
> > rates, you're stealling
> > that money from the utilities... frankly, taxes aren't enough
> > - all these
> > free-riders should be put in jail
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
I hate to say it, but some people just drive too fast in the snow.
You would think someone who lives most of their life in a snow area would
drive slower.
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 16:49:49 -0700 Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> This story is about a hybrid, but there is an EV tie-in, since I
> was on EV business when the accident occurred.
>
> I live in Edmonton, Alberta, where it is still very much winter.
> I've been going back and forth to the cottage (50 km each way)
> quite a bit to work on an EV project which is nearing completion
> after a year and a half of struggle. So I had to go out last
> night after supper because the body shop guy had dropped off some
> newly painted parts and I wanted to bring them into the house
> before today's expected thaw. It was snowing and there was quite
> a wind, the temperature around -16C. No problem, says I, I have
> snow tires. The Insight is a wonderful car for frequent trips
> like that - I've averaged 4.0 l/100 km over 60,000 km since I got
> the car 2 years ago. I figure that I've saved over 2000 liters of
> gas. That's quite a bit when you consider that gas is 80 cents a
> liter here and going nowhere but up. To say nothing of the tons
> of CO2 that I'm saving for someone else to burn.
>
> So here I am cruising along at about 90-95 km/hr (that's about 55
> mph), snow blowing horizontally across my path and some nice jazz
> playing on the wayland. In the blink of an eye, the left wheels
> get caught in a row of the brown slushy snow that collects
> between lanes when it is snowing, a row that had metastasized
> into my lane like a cancerous ameba. (don't you hate metaphors
> like that?). The car does a graceful counterclockwise 180 and
> exits stage right, sliding sideways. Stage right was the ditch,
> bordered by a low windrow made by the snowplows. The ditch was
> about 4 feet deep but fairly wide, so that the edges were not
> really very steep. Just before we hit the ditch I'm thinking "I
> wish I had taken skid school." I tried to gently steer her
> straight but the drag from the snow/slush was too great and
> keeping her on the road was just not going to happen.
>
> With the car now going sideways and backwards into the ditch, I
> had little to say but "darn". When the driver's side wheels hit
> the edge of the windrow, which was just beyond where the shoulder
> turned to ditch, the car found a second un-natural degree of
> freedom and made another 180, coming to a halt upside down
> pointing back toward the road, about a foot from a big wooden
> power pole. Sigh, this can't be good, I say to myself, or words
> to that effect. What do I do now? Ah, turn off the ignition.
> Next? Lights, turn off the lights. OK, now is there a way out of
> here? Passenger sided door looked ok, only I'm hanging upside
> down by the seatbelt. Through the spider-webbed but otherwise
> intact windshield all I can see is snow, and the driver's door
> was also in deep. So I figure the passenger door is a good bet
> and it would be desirable to try to get out. I don't remember the
> precise details of how I got from hanging by the seatbelt
> to crouching on the headliner, but it involved some twisting and
> dropping and did not involve any bodily injury. The door opened
> easily and out I went feet first.
>
> It took about an hour from the time of the accident till the AAA
> guy came to put her right and haul her out of the ditch. It was
> really cold in the wind, but the guy behind me let me wait in his
> truck until the RCMP came and the cop stayed until the AAA guy
> had got her out of the ditch.
>
> So to take stock: The windshield is toast; looks like one of
> those decorative crazed crystal glasses. The front of the roof is
> dented from where it meets the windshield for about a foot front
> to back by a foot and a half wide by a couple of inches deep. One
> of the dome lights was jammed on but I was able to fix that by
> pulling out the dome light assembly a bit. The radio antenna is
> still on and undamaged. Surprisingly, the side of the car is
> unscathed. Snow was packed in pretty tight in the wheel wells and
> wherever, and there was a vibration in the suspension which
> increased with speed, but she started right away, tracked
> straight and the brakes were just a little bit soft, probably
> from spillage of fluid. There was just a bit of oil spilled onto
> the inside of the hood; the level was ok. The wayland resumed
> belting out the tunes as soon as I turned her back on.
>
> So I continued on my way, rescued the parts for the EV and put a
> little air in one of the tires, shoveled some snow then drove
> (slowly) back to the city.
>
> After work I'll take her to the dealer to get the Insight
> specialist to check her over then it's off to the body shop for
> maybe a thousand or fifteen hundred bucks of fix 'er up.
>
> Coulda been worse.
>
> Mike Hoskinson.
>
> -planning some really good battery hold-downs in the EV. Maybe a
> lid on the battery box. :) Picture Mike hanging upside down in
> the EV contemplating dropping into a growing pool of battery
> acid. Yuk. I have little enough hair as it is!
>
>
________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
