EV Digest 2646
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: OT Solar slap tax, stopping EVs on RE
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: A not so funny thing happened on the way to the EV
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: A not so funny thing happened on the way to the EV
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Is this possible? helping someone off-list
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: A not so funny thing happened on the way to the EV
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) (US) EV Bumper sticker now available
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Future of LiIon
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Future of LiIon
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Is this possible? helping someone off-list
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: 48V charger needed
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) EV Manure Truck
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EVLN(Deere electric-powered E-Gator utility vehicle)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Future of LiIon
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Future of LiIon
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) plug-in hybrid efforts
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 48V charger needed
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EVLN(Yamaha G-Max 48V stops doobie blazing or dog missiles)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Group31 Optima(s)
by "EV'r up LATE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) My 2 Cents, in response to CARB and Gov. Proclimations
by "Steven S. Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Shipping
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Future of LiIon
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Group31 Optima(s)
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) How to delay the coming of ...
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) thanks
by "Rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
One major problem: It is an "ex post facto" kind of law. When you
took the grant for PV, it wasn't with fine print "charges may be
applied later to 'pay back' this grant." So you can't use the grant
as a basis. (Not that this stops the gov't...) Also, wasn't this to
apply to all PV, not just grant paid PV?
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't have tax figures, but I actually can see the logic:
>
> California pays you to ease CA power problems so as a nice side
> benefit YOU are saving large amounts of money on electricity.
>
> It is not fate that you're SO much better off than your neighbor
> now,
> and CA paid for it, so all they're asking is share a part of your
> savings with CA. You're still way better off, so what are you
> complaining about? You want zero expense from your pocket AND
> paying less for electricity than everyone else?
>
> If you think about it, one should start complaining if this
> hassle of putting PV in service provides no or insignificant
> benefits to the owner. If you still have big benefits, even though
> not as big as without tax, you can survive.
>
> I'm not in CA, but if I get my PV system installed by state
> and my electricity is nearly free, I'd happily pay 100% tax on
> pennies I spend daily (and be FAR better off than without PV).
>
> Now, I'm not in favor in such taxes, but think about it.
> I have right to oppose ANY extra taxes on my electricity
> only if I paid for PV myself. Otherwise you owe CA for
> *your* well being, don't you?
>
> Victor
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Mar 13, 2003 at 04:49:49PM -0700, Michael Hoskinson wrote:
> This story is about a hybrid, but there is an EV tie-in, since I
> was on EV business when the accident occurred.
I'm pretty impressed that you could flip it, right it, and keep on
driving. That's a pretty good testament to the Insight, even if it
was cushioned by the snow.
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hope this story was also POSTed on the Insight group.
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
I've been talking to someone interested in an electric truck for farm
use. My sense is that his needs are on the edge of what a basic PbA
conversion could do. But from the experts - do you you think this is
doable? If so, how much battery pack is needed?
In his words: "I want to haul horse manure with it about 14 miles round
trip with two substantial hills on the way there and back. I also would
like to be able to take it into town (17miles each way?) with a load of
produce (mostly vegetables and two passengers weighing 450 lbs total).
The 17 mile run is almost all down hill to get there and about 7 miles
up hill (total 1400 feet climb) getting back." This is in New England
with the cold winters.
I like to encourage folks to get into an EV, but I wouldn't want them
disappointed and forever more against EVs.
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Insights are very tough cars. My mom had her Insight cut off and rammed by
another car. Damage was actually limited to a few body panels and was rather
limited all things considered.
Good cars.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hoskinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 6:49 PM
Subject: A not so funny thing happened on the way to the EV
> This story is about a hybrid, but there is an EV tie-in, since I
> was on EV business when the accident occurred.
>
> I live in Edmonton, Alberta, where it is still very much winter.
> I've been going back and forth to the cottage (50 km each way)
> quite a bit to work on an EV project which is nearing completion
> after a year and a half of struggle. So I had to go out last
> night after supper because the body shop guy had dropped off some
> newly painted parts and I wanted to bring them into the house
> before today's expected thaw. It was snowing and there was quite
> a wind, the temperature around -16C. No problem, says I, I have
> snow tires. The Insight is a wonderful car for frequent trips
> like that - I've averaged 4.0 l/100 km over 60,000 km since I got
> the car 2 years ago. I figure that I've saved over 2000 liters of
> gas. That's quite a bit when you consider that gas is 80 cents a
> liter here and going nowhere but up. To say nothing of the tons
> of CO2 that I'm saving for someone else to burn.
>
> So here I am cruising along at about 90-95 km/hr (that's about 55
> mph), snow blowing horizontally across my path and some nice jazz
> playing on the wayland. In the blink of an eye, the left wheels
> get caught in a row of the brown slushy snow that collects
> between lanes when it is snowing, a row that had metastasized
> into my lane like a cancerous ameba. (don't you hate metaphors
> like that?). The car does a graceful counterclockwise 180 and
> exits stage right, sliding sideways. Stage right was the ditch,
> bordered by a low windrow made by the snowplows. The ditch was
> about 4 feet deep but fairly wide, so that the edges were not
> really very steep. Just before we hit the ditch I'm thinking "I
> wish I had taken skid school." I tried to gently steer her
> straight but the drag from the snow/slush was too great and
> keeping her on the road was just not going to happen.
>
> With the car now going sideways and backwards into the ditch, I
> had little to say but "darn". When the driver's side wheels hit
> the edge of the windrow, which was just beyond where the shoulder
> turned to ditch, the car found a second un-natural degree of
> freedom and made another 180, coming to a halt upside down
> pointing back toward the road, about a foot from a big wooden
> power pole. Sigh, this can't be good, I say to myself, or words
> to that effect. What do I do now? Ah, turn off the ignition.
> Next? Lights, turn off the lights. OK, now is there a way out of
> here? Passenger sided door looked ok, only I'm hanging upside
> down by the seatbelt. Through the spider-webbed but otherwise
> intact windshield all I can see is snow, and the driver's door
> was also in deep. So I figure the passenger door is a good bet
> and it would be desirable to try to get out. I don't remember the
> precise details of how I got from hanging by the seatbelt
> to crouching on the headliner, but it involved some twisting and
> dropping and did not involve any bodily injury. The door opened
> easily and out I went feet first.
>
> It took about an hour from the time of the accident till the AAA
> guy came to put her right and haul her out of the ditch. It was
> really cold in the wind, but the guy behind me let me wait in his
> truck until the RCMP came and the cop stayed until the AAA guy
> had got her out of the ditch.
>
> So to take stock: The windshield is toast; looks like one of
> those decorative crazed crystal glasses. The front of the roof is
> dented from where it meets the windshield for about a foot front
> to back by a foot and a half wide by a couple of inches deep. One
> of the dome lights was jammed on but I was able to fix that by
> pulling out the dome light assembly a bit. The radio antenna is
> still on and undamaged. Surprisingly, the side of the car is
> unscathed. Snow was packed in pretty tight in the wheel wells and
> wherever, and there was a vibration in the suspension which
> increased with speed, but she started right away, tracked
> straight and the brakes were just a little bit soft, probably
> from spillage of fluid. There was just a bit of oil spilled onto
> the inside of the hood; the level was ok. The wayland resumed
> belting out the tunes as soon as I turned her back on.
>
> So I continued on my way, rescued the parts for the EV and put a
> little air in one of the tires, shoveled some snow then drove
> (slowly) back to the city.
>
> After work I'll take her to the dealer to get the Insight
> specialist to check her over then it's off to the body shop for
> maybe a thousand or fifteen hundred bucks of fix 'er up.
>
> Coulda been worse.
>
> Mike Hoskinson.
>
> -planning some really good battery hold-downs in the EV. Maybe a
> lid on the battery box. :) Picture Mike hanging upside down in
> the EV contemplating dropping into a growing pool of battery
> acid. Yuk. I have little enough hair as it is!
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Folks,
With all the discussion about Middle East oil, from the much-publicized
anti-SUV ads, to the factually flawed email circulating suggesting that
buying gas from certain companies will reduce our Middle East oil
dependence, to the peace activists' slogan "no blood for oil", there is
much awareness right now in the US about where our transportation energy
is coming from.
A week ago, I proposed to the EV list a bumper sticker design. Thanks
so much to Chip Gribben for taking the rough design I had and cleaning
it up. The bumper stickers are now available (or will be tomorrow), and
I should be able to ship by the 20th. My goal is to get them to people
before the CARB meeting on the 27th, for those who want them that fast.
I am not making any significant profit on these. My cost is $2/sticker,
which is what I'm selling them for. Shipping is $1.50 per order (to US
addresses), regardless of order size. I send them in a stiff cardboard
mailer which costs $0.75 plus whatever postage is going to be, probably
either $0.49 or $0.60. Thus, my "profit" (if you can call it that) is
less than $0.30 per complete order. I am just spelling this out so that
it's clear that my intention is to get the word out, not make any money.
I ordered 100 stickers. I can have more printed up if there is
sufficient demand.
You can view the sticker and order online at
http://free.hostdepartment.com/g/grannumura/index.html Note that here
you can pay via PayPal (which allows credit card transactions--you just
need to register for a free PayPal account). If you want to pay by
check or money order, please send email to either this account or the
account listed on the website and state how many you want and I will
respond with an address to send the check (note this will take
additional time as I will wait for your check to arrive before sending
the sticker).
If you have previously emailed me with an intent to order, please go
ahead and order on the website or through email as described above.
I think the time is right for this message to get out. Imagine showing
up at the CARB meeting in a few weeks with these bumper stickers on all
the EVs. Or attending a peace rally. Or just driving down a highway
full of ICE SUVs. It should make people think twice before dismissing
pure electrics.
Dean Grannes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I like Li-ion batteries. But I only have experience with
them as cell phone or laptop batteries. When I was working
at hp as field service, communications was your umbilical
cord (the boss could always reach you).
While all the devry newbies got all the phone toys to look
cool, I ordered the Li-ion battery instead of the NiMH
battery that came standard (less toys, more amps).
While everyone else's pack was dead during the y2k
hiatus, I was going strong on my one charge. The
battery pack was large than the NiMH pack but the energy
density was 1.6 times (1500ma vs 600 ma). Since that
time, now there is a 3500ma li-ion pack, and prices have
dropped to 1/6th the cost
http://www.phonebatteries.com/nok6100series.html
(packs used to cost more than the phone).
I understand that cell and laptop batteries are different
than what EVs would use. But as we can see the pack
densities have increased, while the pack costs have
dropped. This sounds like the time is getting ripe for
its use in the EV.
Victor and others might disagree, but I am not holding my
breath for li-ion EV batteries. There are those that really
want this to happen and when it does, it will be a turning
point in EV history.
Affordable and available Li-ion EV batteries just hasn't
happened. We know why NiMH haven't: Standard/Cheveron Oil/GM
own the patent (its not in their interest to bring the cost
down).
With the killing of EVs, what market justification was there
to get the bean-counters to free up funding to start making
li-ion packs for EVs, disappeared. Add to that, CARB backed
off, and fcvs are all the rage, EVs are dead in the
bean-counter's (investor's) view.
Perhaps some can buy high density laptop packs and solder them
together in a series-parallel arrangement (like what white
Lightning did with sub-c cell NiMH cells)
http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=white+lightning+electric+speed
But additional effort will be needed. The charger has to be
able to charge li-ion batteries with a thermal sensor to
keep the pack from over heating, and the pack will need to
be installed with a cooling ability to dissipate heat.
Not unlike an AGM optima pack that has to taper its final
charge current and need a smoother to balance the pack. A
li-ion pack will need to taper its charge current with the
amount of heat disapated, and also need a smoother designed
for li-ion chemistry.
So there is the cost of the li-ion pack, the charger, the
redesign of the pack with a cooling system, multiple heat
sensors across the pack, and a li-ion smoother. This is not
impossible to do. But I do not think li-ion EV packs are
priced affordably yet and the other stuff isn't
'off-the-shelf' (where do you buy it?).
Most of the li-ion EV battery links are old and dated
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=li-ion+Electric+vehicle+batteries
Yet, the production of very small AAA, AA, C, D, cell phone
and laptop packs are going great guns because bean-counters
see a market.
Every time I one of these small li-ion cells I wince.
(think of all those small cells that could have been an
EV's li-ion pack).
Someone, correct me, and please prove me wrong
(I don't want to be right here).
=====
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Edward Ang wrote:
> I want to take this chance to ask the list's opinion, especially
> from those that have seen new battery technologies come and go.
> Is LiIon the answer to the EV range problem?
Frankly, I think that it is not. It is a wonderful battery, but just too
expensive. I think that the basic cost of the materials, the difficulty
of fabrication, and the risks in case of an accident or fire are too
much of a disadvantage.
Lion is great for small applications, like laptop computers and cell
phones. They use very small batteries, and users are willing to pay huge
prices per pound. They do not require high currents -- the product is
expected to keep working for many hours.
> the availability of EV sized LiIon batteries seems to be much better
> than other advanced battery technologies.
I think that advanced lead-acid, nicad, and nimh batteries are cheaper
and easier to get.
> And, the new 42V automotive standard is sure to give a shot in the
> arm for LiIon technologies since I read that many 42V based batteries
> would be LiIon's.
I would be absolutely amazed if they use Lions. For one, automobiles
demand the cheapest possible battery, and Lion is at the opposite
extreme. For another, these would be starting batteries, required to
charge and discharge at extremely high currents -- lions are the worst
choice for this.
Gazing into my crystal ball, I'd say that the "superbattery" to make EVs
practical for the masses hasn't been invented yet. I think that it will
have to use some very cheap materials, but in a very clever way.
For example, even the plain old lead-acid battery doesn't achieve even
30% of its theoretical yield. Most of the lead is simply used for
physical support and to carry current. Someone who figures out a way to
put close to 100% of the lead to work would triple its capacity, and
outperform LiIon.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I suppose it depends upon the size of the truck he wants to do 34 miles
in the dead of a New England Winter.
Definitely need a heated battery pack in an insulated battery box.
On Thu, 13 Mar 2003 20:59:05 -0500 Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I've been talking to someone interested in an electric truck for farm
>
> use. My sense is that his needs are on the edge of what a basic PbA
> conversion could do. But from the experts - do you you think this is
>
> doable? If so, how much battery pack is needed?
>
> In his words: "I want to haul horse manure with it about 14 miles
> round
> trip with two substantial hills on the way there and back. I also
> would
> like to be able to take it into town (17miles each way?) with a load
> of
> produce (mostly vegetables and two passengers weighing 450 lbs
> total).
> The 17 mile run is almost all down hill to get there and about 7
> miles
> up hill (total 1400 feet climb) getting back." This is in New
> England
> with the cold winters.
>
> I like to encourage folks to get into an EV, but I wouldn't want
> them
> disappointed and forever more against EVs.
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S10
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________
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Only $9.95 per month!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bad boy chargers do NOT have transformers by definition.
What you will be building is a TWC (third world charger).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: 48V charger needed
> Bad boy ?? I still need to find the transformer I am going to use.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[ref http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/37190 ]
Work with the buyer to define:
-how much they want to spend
-how much they need to haul
-where they want to buy it
-how they will charge it (assume over night)
and walk them through the EVs 4 Sale pages
http://eaaev.org/eaaevsforsale.html
for trucks.
The slow loading http://eaasv.org/
(too many graphics on one page) has a listing:
-
1971 Datsun B200 Pickup, converted in 1985, 120vdc, 20 batteries, max
speed: 65, two pasengers. This truck has had a colorful past.
[... too much information for an ad ...]
the current owner, who operates a landscaping service specializing
in ecological plantings and methods. He has used it happily for
several years.
[... too much information for an ad ...]
He is asking $2,500. It includes the lumber rack. The graphics on the
body are vynil and can be removed. ! The battery pack is two years
old. Current range is about 10 miles. With new batteries, it should
be able to do 20-30 miles, depending on terrain. See photo & full
details at http://www.electroauto.com/gallery/datsun-pu.shtml
Ken Foster, Terra Nova Ecological Landscaping, Santa Cruz, Ca
(831) 524-3514, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (9/26/2002)
-
This EV will need a new pack so add $1600 to the price.
(repeat)
=====
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Deere electric-powered E-Gator utility vehicle)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://farmindustrynews.com/ar/farming_electric_tractors_2/
Electric tractors? Wayne Wenzel Farm Industry News, Feb 15, 2003
Hybrid electric and fuel cell automobiles are one futurist solution
for reducing pollution and dependence on fossil fuels. But will farm
tractors ever run on electricity instead of diesel? The official
line from tractor manufacturers generally is, �We're not prepared to
talk about that right now.
Although the company hasn't talked about it much publicly, John
Deere does have an electric motor program in the works with
alternative energy technologies developer UQM Technologies. UQM
recently announced that it has achieved a revolutionary breakthrough
in the performance of an electric motor that could power large farm
equipment.
10-to-1 ratio
The new development is a permanent magnet electric motor system that
achieves a 10-to-1 top speed to base speed ratio, or what is
commonly referred to in the industry as constant power speed ratio
(CPSR). This provides both high-torque and high-speed capability in
the same machine at levels greater than twice that of the electric
motor industry's best-performing motor technology.
Commenting on the new system, Bernard B. Poore, manager of product
technology for John Deere, says, The majority of our vehicles
require low-speed torque coupled with high-speed transport and
present a particularly tough challenge for electric propulsion
systems. We have been working with UQM for many years because their
superior technology is well suited to the variety of demanding
applications in our industry. Their achievement of 10 to 1 is a
significant breakthrough and will greatly improve the performance of
electric and hybrid propulsion systems. We know of no other
demonstrated technology that comes close to this performance.
Looking ahead
Deere's Barry Nelson cautions that the mighty diesel won't disappear
anytime soon. �Electric motor technology is an exciting
breakthrough, but keep in mind that it is an advanced engineering
project that might not result in a marketable product for 10 years,�
he says. �We have to keep looking forward, though, and electric
motor technology offers the prospect of greater fuel efficiency and
reduced emissions.
Electric motors have other advantages too. They are quieter and have
the potential to produce more torque than internal combustion
engines.
One possible application of electric motors on tractors might be a
hybrid diesel tractor that uses individual electric motors for
front-wheel assist. Conceivably, a tractor could have separately
controlled electric motors on each wheel, increasing maneuverability
and saving weight by eliminating the need for steering linkages and
transmissions.
Fuel-cell Gator
More recently, Deere announced that it is working with Hydrogenics
Corporation, a Canadian fuel cell manufacturer, to develop a
fuel-cell-powered commercial work vehicle (CWV).
The company shared plans for the vehicle in December at the Electric
Transportation Industry Conference and Exposition in Hollywood, FL.
The vehicle is a modified John Deere Pro-Gator utility vehicle.
This vehicle will serve as a technology guide as John Deere moves
forward with electrification of its products,� says Bruce Wood,
director of the company's ePower Technologies group. Deere plans to
test the fuel-cell-powered CWV at demonstration sites across the
U.S. starting in the spring.
Also at the Florida conference, Deere showed its prototype
gasoline-electric, zero-turning-radius lawn tractor and its
currently available electric-powered E-Gator utility vehicle.
Although our initial prototypes and demonstrators are in the smaller
turf care products, we believe these technologies eventually will be
applied in larger equipment as well,� Wood says. �Electrification
will enable our products to have significantly reduced emissions and
noise levels with improved efficiency and sustained high
performance.�
For more information about electric motors, visit www.uqm.com. To
see Deere products, visit www.johndeereag.com.
� 2003, PRIMEDIA Business Magazines & Media Inc. All rights reserved.
-
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Edward Ang wrote:
>
> I want to take this chance to ask the list's opinion, especial from those
> that have seen new battery technologies come and go. Is LiIon the answer to
> the EV range problem?
>
> I personally think that LiIon pack could easily launch us beyond the 100
> miles range, even for EV conversions. 100 miles seems to be the magic
> number for the general public to accept. And, the availability of EV sized
> LiIon batteries seems to be much better than other advanced battery
> technologies. And, the new 42V automotive standard is sure to give a shot
> in the arm for LiIon technologies since I read that many 42V based batteries
> would be LiIon's.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Ed Ang
Here's what I think
NiZn Evercells will increase our range by 3x to 5x, and cost about 2x
AGM PbLa.
Lion will 5x to 10x our range and be 2x NiZn. But have some saftey
issues that have not been fully addressed.
100 mile range
Evercells will make a 100 mile car have about a 1000 lbs battery pack.
There is about a %20 uncertainty box around this guess.
This makes a mind boggling concept of 1000 lbs of Lion delivering 200
miles range in a small Ecno EV.
I know I have inside information on the Evercells, but I think Lions
are going to be a year or two behind the Evercells in REALLY getting
into large EV uses. The charging requirements will make a lot of the
first adopters Guinea Pigs. Also the harsh up front cost will make
destroying a pack Just about economically Fatal to the EV owner. Blowing
your first pack up in a couple hundred miles will still be fof flooded
Lead Acids.
I see both chemistries as the Next step. Wich one becomes dominant is
still to be learned.
I see NiZns dropping in price pretty soon, I don't see anything with
Lithium dropping in price for quite some time.
I am hanging my hat on Evercells for the short term. By the nature of
what I do for a living I will get to learn the brutal results. Yea I
was one of those guys that melted the cell separators in my first 48
volt pack.
Lion is really cool but you don't find Li on nails, and old buckets. And
you can't find it in your change pocket. NiZn will rule because of
simple cheamistry, and a lower inplied risk of rapid self dissassembly.
Marketing and volume delivery could change this if either chemistry
vendor does something foolish.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
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--- Begin Message ---
At 06:54 PM 3/13/2003 -0800, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
Affordable and available Li-ion EV batteries just hasn't
happened. We know why NiMH haven't: Standard/Cheveron Oil/GM
own the patent (its not in their interest to bring the cost
down).
Affordable is debatable. As far as I can tell, if the LiIon pack I just
ordered is even 1/2 as good as the specifications, it should be CHEAPER per
mile than a pack of Optima Yellow Tops - for my kind of usage.
But additional effort will be needed. The charger has to be
able to charge li-ion batteries with a thermal sensor to
keep the pack from over heating, and the pack will need to
be installed with a cooling ability to dissipate heat.
PFC-20 with MKIII regs. (MKIII's seem to be in the "Soon to be Available"
category.)
We will know in a few months. I'll be using my new pack by then.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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--- Begin Message ---
See http://www.calcars.org/vehicles.html
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. EV List Editor & RE newswires
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--- Begin Message ---
Yep,
I was just thinking about that before I checked my e-mail. You know how it
goes you start scratching your head and say wait a minute, that's not right.
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 48V charger needed
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:48:49 -0800
Bad boy chargers do NOT have transformers by definition.
What you will be building is a TWC (third world charger).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: 48V charger needed
> Bad boy ?? I still need to find the transformer I am going to use.
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Yamaha G-Max 48V stops doobie blazing or dog missiles)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV informational
purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.news-press.com/news/bonita/031203beachatv-bon.html
Cart keeps peace on beach quietly
ATV patrol unit designed to deter crime
By MARK KRZOS, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bonita Springs� new crime fighting weapon, the G-Max 48V, is on
patrol on Bonita Beach.
The Yamaha G-Max 48V is a silent golf cart that reaches a top speed
of 15 mph � perfect for catching people who are engaged in illegal
beach activity.
The specially made electric vehicle comes equipped with larger
tires, a windshield, a higher body, an on-board computer, halogen
headlights and features steel bars on the back seat which can be
used to handcuff criminals.
The new vehicle also features the city�s logo on its side, the words
�Community Beach Patrol� on the front, a day/night rearview mirror,
a first-aid kit and a thermos filled with ice water.
Wednesday morning, Bonita Springs Councilman Bob Wagner and
representatives from the Lee County Sheriff�s Office unveiled the
vehicle�s new storage shed.
Wagner said the new vehicle will do a better job of nabbing
criminals than a gas-powered ATV because it does not run on a loud,
gas-powered engine.
Now that our beach ATV is operational, people better think twice
about blazing a doobie or watching their dog launch a missile on
Bonita Beach,� Wagner said.
[ http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Yamaha+G-Max+48V ]
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
What's the going price for group 31 yellow top Optimas these days?
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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--- Begin Message ---
Might this spam help someone needing to move their EV state to state.
Lawrence Rhodes.....
http://www.horizon-stop.com/transporters_of_automobile/
I have no idea how good they are....No financial interest.........
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--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
--------------------------------------------
Lion is really cool but you don't find Li on nails, and old buckets. And
you can't find it in your change pocket. NiZn will rule because of
simple chemistry, and a lower inplied risk of rapid self dissassembly.
---------------------------------------------
Well said Rich. :^D
The abundance of nickel and zinc could be a major factor, and they are
increasing energy density with each consecutive incarnation. Not to mention
minimal Peukert and being minimally effected by low temperatures.
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
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--- Begin Message ---
I haven't looked into sources myself, but I heard that a local EV'R paid
$170 a piece.
damon
From: "EV'r up LATE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Group31 Optima(s)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:51:14 -0800
Hi all,
What's the going price for group 31 yellow top Optimas these days?
_________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
[ref http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/37205 ]
Steve's POST states what the automakers did to kill
production EVs. But a little rewording has me worried
about the recent GM and Shell fcv commitment made in
Wash DC:
-
1. Give government fcv grants to people who waist the
money and the Opportunity on pie-in-the-sky research
which never bares fruit for the public.
2. Limit the distribution of fcvs to a chosen few cities,
states, and fleets..
3. Pad the media with mis-information, such as �refueling
will cost twice as much per mile, tanks are too small to
go as far, are too complex to make, and too expensive to
maintain, etc.
4. If you DO happen to see the big corporations build the
finest fcv the world has ever seen, (i.e. GM ) DON�T let
any one buy one, lease it only, and when the leases are up,
yank the cars away from their screaming owners, gather them
all up and CRUSH THEM !!
5. Cloud the issue, with promises of "fuel ion cars"
some time in the far far future, without the public
realizing that they will still have to fill up their future
"fuel ion cars" from EXXON, Shell, Texaco, Chevron, and BP
refueling stations, still giving all the POWER and Money to
these corporate giants!!
-
Its a winning strategy that bilks the taxpayers, while the
SUV profits are still coming in.
I think Steve has foreseen the future.
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--- Begin Message ---
signoff ev
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello! You may recall some time ago I mentioned I was building an electric
go-kart. Well, about a year later, it's finished (almost)! I've been
driving it around with a temporary contactor controller while I finish
building my 250amp PWM controller. I've still got to take some measurements
to see how many amps this thing sucks! The motor is a 48V series wound that
originally powered the lift of a forklift. We had lots of fun building the
kart, and plenty of amusement was to be had going for the first test drive
with a 24V battery charger strapped to the back! Once the batteries went on,
however the EV-grin was multiplied tenfold! Wheelspins and dirt throwing
galore! Hmmm, seems I need fatter tyres. However, the grin was somewhat
diminished about a week ago when the chain came off and in a hurried (read
"stupid") attempt to get it back on I crushed my thumb between the chain and
the sprocket. The sprocket tooth went straight through my thumb and out the
other side. Nasty. Anyway, I finally drove it again today and the EV-grin is
back, hence this post :) You can see heaps of pictures of the kart at
<http://electric-gokart.kicks-ass.net>. They are in order of the
construction process. I will get around to documenting the thing on the web
page one day. I've also go to finish making my video for Steve. I've already
got plans for a lightweight kart with a bigger motor and a proper racing
chassis :) I've also discovered that the current motor is too powerful for
the old chassis and things bend/come loose, etc. Strange things can
certainly happen when you are throwing a lot of torque and weight around.
Anyway, I hope some people find this interesting, it's certainly motivated
me to undertake more EV projects!
Thanks
Dean
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