EV Digest 2648
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: NPR ev story yesterday
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) NiMh batts
by billb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) electric gokart mirror available
by "Eric Penne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Future of LiIon
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 9 inch at high rpm
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Canadian List Members
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Future of LiIon
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Future of LiIon
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) 9" in a 72v car
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: 9" in a 72v car
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: How to delay the coming of ...
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Am I frying my "controller"?
by "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Too little, too late: EVocide
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: NiMh batts
by "Andrea Bachus Kohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Surplus Center Hawker Batteries $29.95
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Am I frying my "controller"?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) worm found: hope nobody else was damaged
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: OT Solar slap tax, OT Flame response
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
I'm glad you didn't show pictures of the thumb!
Really neat looking go-kart, I'm working on one
for the kids.
I don't think the motor is too big for the cart, you
just need a smoother speed control to deliver the torque
(aka, MOSFET speed control, like a Curtis golf cart for
smooth acceleration).
If you have any more details about the construction I would
be interested in seeing the plans (although the pictures are
a very good start).
Rod
www.qsl.net/w8rnh
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Dean Thompson
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 6:35 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Go-Kart is a Goer!
Hello! You may recall some time ago I mentioned I was building an electric
go-kart. Well, about a year later, it's finished (almost)! I've been
driving it around with a temporary contactor controller while I finish
building my 250amp PWM controller. I've still got to take some measurements
to see how many amps this thing sucks! The motor is a 48V series wound that
originally powered the lift of a forklift. We had lots of fun building the
kart, and plenty of amusement was to be had going for the first test drive
with a 24V battery charger strapped to the back! Once the batteries went on,
however the EV-grin was multiplied tenfold! Wheelspins and dirt throwing
galore! Hmmm, seems I need fatter tyres. However, the grin was somewhat
diminished about a week ago when the chain came off and in a hurried (read
"stupid") attempt to get it back on I crushed my thumb between the chain and
the sprocket. The sprocket tooth went straight through my thumb and out the
other side. Nasty. Anyway, I finally drove it again today and the EV-grin is
back, hence this post :) You can see heaps of pictures of the kart at
<http://electric-gokart.kicks-ass.net>. They are in order of the
construction process. I will get around to documenting the thing on the web
page one day. I've also go to finish making my video for Steve. I've already
got plans for a lightweight kart with a bigger motor and a proper racing
chassis :) I've also discovered that the current motor is too powerful for
the old chassis and things bend/come loose, etc. Strange things can
certainly happen when you are throwing a lot of torque and weight around.
Anyway, I hope some people find this interesting, it's certainly motivated
me to undertake more EV projects!
Thanks
Dean
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I talked to a CARB employee. He said that the 10% is still on it's just
that what is considered ZEV includes a lot of other vehicles and partial
vehicles. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Humphrey, Timothy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 5:52 AM
Subject: RE: NPR ev story yesterday
> Can anybody verify....?
>
> I know that when CARB initially enacted this(10% in 2003), that NY and I
> think VT perhaps MA, climbed on board. There's some federal regulation
that
> prohibits states from enacting emissions laws unless CA does so first. (I
> read that here).
>
> Anyway, I believe (this is what needs verification) that NY (maybe the
> others too!) never reduced it's requirements from 10%. While CARB may have
> lost all credibility, the automakers are still be held to higher standards
> by other states, no?.
>
> That's why the EV-1s are being sent to NY. Unfortunately NY is not really
a
> huge consumer of NEW vehicles so the giants may just pay the fines and
raise
> prices to compensate.
>
> On another note, New Yorkers be advised, the state is still paying up to
60%
> of conversion costs to convert an ICE to EV, in the form of a rolling tax
> credit. (reduces your state income tax to $0.00 each year until paid.) I
> believe though, under current legislation, that the conversion must be
> completed this year. And with our current fiscal problems the program
> probably will not be extended.
> You can bet that by the end of this year, Hump will no longer be a lurker,
> but will be a grinner too!
>
> Stay Charged!
>
> Hump
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Teslectric [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 8:28 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: NPR ev story yesterday
> >
> >
> > While waiting for my wife at the train station, I heard a story on
> > the NPR station out of Chicago here about how battery powered vehicles
> > are pretty much out of the picture due to CARB wimping out to the auto
> > makers and changing from 10% of all vehicles sold in 2003 to 250 total
> > fuel cell vehicles produced by 2008 by all manufacturers
> > COMBINED. Geez.
> >
> > There was the usual garbage from the big guys like "the public didn't
> > want these electric cars. No one would buy them."
> >
> > It was on around 4:20pm CDT or so. I don't know how NPR works so I
> > don't know if it was on everywhere at the same time or what.
> >
> > That is all.
> >
> > jaime
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.go-ev.com
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We here at the University of Nevada, Reno, have acquired a few of the
NiMh panasonic 95 ah 12 volt batteries these are the same as the Toyota
rav4 batteries. We were researching these and could find very little
technical info.on them even the Panasonic Ev site has little beyond
very basic info, capacity physical size etc.
We are searching for much more detailed specs, graphs, charging curves,
max depth of discharge, max discharge current, Cx? temp management,
cooling? and basic BMS for this type, any info would be greatly
appreciated, Bill
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't get permission but I put it up anyhow. If you want it taken down
just say the word.
Here is a mirror of the electric go-kart that was just announced to the list.
http://www.thepennes.net/electric-gokart/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm glad you didn't show pictures of the thumb!
I did consider that, but then I thought it wasn't a very good idea :)
> Really neat looking go-kart
Thanks!
> I don't think the motor is too big for the cart, you
> just need a smoother speed control to deliver the torque
> (aka, MOSFET speed control, like a Curtis golf cart for
> smooth acceleration).
Yes, I'm still building my 250amp controller. I've got two sets of MOSFETS,
cheap ones to fry in the testing and some expensive ones that I really don't
want to let the magic some out of. I hope they don't blow because it'll
really put me off the whole power electronics thing. Being a student makes
it hard to blow stuff up sometimes, I really can't afford it! I thought it
would be cheaper to build my own controller, but I could be wrong... You
actually can do smooth starts with the contactor controller, but they aren't
much fun.
> If you have any more details about the construction I would
> be interested in seeing the plans (although the pictures are
> a very good start).
This go-kart started life about 4 or 5 years ago when I saw and article
about using a starter motor (from a Mini) to power a go-kart. This is what
originally kicked off my interest in EVs. We built the frame and mounted the
motor, it gave lots of fun but the motor frequently overheated and threw the
solder off (yes, it was a rather old motor)! When I grew out of it, the kart
just sat around until I found the forklift motor, hence its return to life.
I've still got the plans we used to construct the frame as well as the
original article. I've put them at
http://electric-gokart.kicks-ass.net/images/plans/ I think the plan view was
modified at the back to allow mounting of the batteries.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Normally (for any chemistry battery) you don't do any balancing
> while driving, only while charging.
The Rudman and BatPro regulators do not balance while driving. That
makes sense, as they are both passive voltage limiters.
The Badicheq, Zivan Smoother, Powercheq, and my Battery Balancer all do
balancing while you are driving. That's because they can actually charge
a battery. This is an advantage because it can "prop up" the weak cells,
so you range is no longer limited by the weakest cells.
This of course requires some kind of DC/DC converter or switching system
to shuttle the power around between batteries. That makes the
per-battery cost much higher.
> So under load datalogging/displaying may not work, but it doesn't
> hurt the cells (in terms of not balancing or doing anything to
> them while driving).
The Mk3 is intended to be a datalogger, to keep track of what you have
done to your poor battery. A datalogger that doesn't work under adverse
conditions is failing to save data exactly when you may want it most.
> You should limit your load if the voltage sag is below a predefined
> value. Simple circuit monitoring total pack voltage can do that, no
> per cell functionality needed just for that.
I'm concerned that there will be differences between cells. Thus, one
will go dead first. When it does, the total pack voltage only falls a
couple volts. This is so small that you won't notice it if you only
monitor total pack voltage. The dead cell could easily have 100's of
amps forced thru it by the other cells. This is likely to cause
something very bad to happen (Bang)!
Thus, I would want a per-cell monitoring system that will keep working
even at extreme voltages, and take action before something bad is
happening. On the high-voltage end, put a load on the cell and command
the charger to back off. On the low-voltage end, command the controller
not to allow excessive load currents.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin Jackson wrote:
>
> Hi Alain;
>
> Two things; your Web service was the Mt. Bruno Computer Club service
> in ~1991 for a while. The sysop (webmaster) was really ticked off by
> some members who called him with dumb questions and gripes and finally
> kicked us off. Couldn't blame him. I lived in St. Bruno for 22 years.
>
> More importantly, I've been looking at the 9 inch ADC motor data from
> various sources and have a caution. Above 5000 rpm, the internal
> fan becomes less effective. When I know more, I'll write something
> better. In the meantime, watch motor temperature at high rpm combined
> with high Amps. With the fan flowing less, the motor will heat up
> faster at constant Amps. Good luck with your move.
> ______________________________________________________________________
This is NOT a issue. The fan takes more HP to spin at high rpms, but the
Fan does move LOTS of air up there.
centrifical fans take more HP as a square of the tip rpm. But that's ok
for cooling!!!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys,
I purchased some car audio speakers from a person online back in
January, and they still haven't arrived. All I have is an empty wallet
and broken promises. Does anyone live near:
3475 Trafalgar STreet
Vancouver, BC, V6L2L7
Canada
If someone can speak with Charles Nip, he is the person who I sent
money. If you could get me any information, I would appreciate it.
-Sam Harper
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Dean;
The first thing that jumped out at me when I saw the pictures was "the tires
are too small". Your experience seems to bear that out.
The other thing that jumped out at me was the sprocket is a long way out
from the motor bearing. If the motor is potent enough to spin the tires
(which it seems to be) then you are putting a large side load on the shaft
producing a "rolling flexure" that will eventually crack the shaft where it
enters the motor housing. I have a motor like this with a broken shaft from
some one who built a machine similar to yours. It may take years to break or
less than 10 minutes in my situation. We all live and learn.
Your axle needs a center bearing on it as well. My rule of thumb is to try
to keep the sprocket to bearing distance less than the diameter of the
shaft. While I have been applying that rule, no shafts have broken. Someone
might have a more definitive formula but mine is simple enough to remember.
I will be building something like this in the future and like what I see.
Keep up the good work.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
. I've also go to finish making my video for Steve. I've already
> got plans for a lightweight kart with a bigger motor and a proper racing
> chassis :) I've also discovered that the current motor is too powerful for
> the old chassis and things bend/come loose, etc. Strange things can
> certainly happen when you are throwing a lot of torque and weight around.
> Anyway, I hope some people find this interesting, it's certainly motivated
> me to undertake more EV projects!
>
> Thanks
> Dean
>
Hi Dean
If I'm the Steve your talking about that's great! My EV friend Tom in
Okeechobee has his wife editing the Mazda conversion and any footage of
other EV projects is needed . For sending me some video of your project
you'll get a copy free.
Steve Clunn
www.grassrootsev.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > Normally (for any chemistry battery) you don't do any balancing
> > while driving, only while charging.
>
> The Rudman and BatPro regulators do not balance while driving. That
> makes sense, as they are both passive voltage limiters.
>
> The Badicheq, Zivan Smoother, Powercheq, and my Battery Balancer all do>
The Mk3 is intended to be a datalogger, to keep track of what you have
> done to your poor battery. A datalogger that doesn't work under adverse
> conditions is failing to save data exactly when you may want it most.
>
Correction Lee!!
The MK3 also will have a Reg Function, and be able to be programmed down
the wire.
If the current lash up of the MK3 does NOT have a Reg Function, aka a
load and a power dissapation element....
Well.......
It won't be called a MK3 Reg, and it won't have my mark of approval.
Since the whole name of the product is the Rudman Regulator Mark Three.
If it's a data logger only it becomes "Sheer's data logger".
As I recall Sheer has a spot for a Z48 mosfet, and fastons to run the
dissapation element as a Loadless Reg, Just like the Mk1,Mk2 Loadless
Regs. The Fet is a Switch, and you need a power resistor of about 0.128
ohms to 5 ohms, for adequate bypass currents.
Doing it this way keeps the thermal nighmares off the Reg's Micro, and
away from temp sensors.
Also as Sheer has put it bluntly, if a Reg Browns out, well it's under
2.00 volts and the Host system can just mark the absent data as less
than 2.00 volts, Take apropriate actions!!!. 2.00 on any chemistry even
single cells of Lion is DEATH mode. This data should be bounced up to
the display, and sent to the Low Batt controller pull back function.
Umm Sheer???? You got your ears on????
I better be preaching to the Choir....
> Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
> 814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
> Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 13 Mar 2003 at 21:00, Lee Hart wrote:
> For example, even the plain old lead-acid battery doesn't achieve even
> 30% of its theoretical yield. Most of the lead is simply used for
> physical support and to carry current. Someone who figures out a way to
> put close to 100% of the lead to work would triple its capacity, and
> outperform LiIon.
Wasn't that the original idea behind the Horizon battery?
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switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hard to tell from the pictures. But where do your feet go? Or more
accurately, your legs?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The legs go over the top of the batteries. Most go karts are driven with the
knees bent at a 90 degree angle.
To drive it, you must activate the throttle in the right foot well and
occasionally press the brake in the left foot well.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Niessen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
> Hard to tell from the pictures. But where do your feet go? Or more
> accurately, your legs?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Russ W has been driving one of my conversions for almost 2 years and would
like more power/speed . I used a 36volt fork lift motor from surplus supply
and a 72 volt savacom controller that I got from upgrading another EV (also
got a Lester 72v charger) . When I had the car I tried it with more bats
(20)and a Curtis controller but the extra weight was to much for the small
motor , it did go faster but not much and 12 golf cart bats seemed about
right ( and I had the controller/charger for 72v) . I have talked to Russ
about it , pointing out that it would really need 4 things , bigger motor,
bigger controller , more batteries ,and a different charger. With this in
mind my advice was to sell it and start a new one. As nobody bought it we
then talked of up grading and the motor seemed like the first place to
start. Russ bought a nice new 9" net gain and last Friday brought the car
over (100 mile trip) , His thoughts were to come Friday evening with car on
rented dolly and take it home Saturday (so as not to rent it twice). This
was a little ambishes as we had to also make a new adaptor plate (but not
the hub). I have another hyndi like his and we are using the tranny from it
as its a 5 speed . (my pay will be the old motor/tranny ) . Worked till
midnight and then up early and by about 4 pm Russ could see it wasn't going
to be finished as he had planned. We did get allot done and the motor was
sitting in the car , . I told Russ I'd work on it during the week as I
wanted to take a little more time and straighten up a lot of lose ends. I
didn't get to do all the stuff I saw that needed to be done ,done but today
I did test drive it . Here is something I was not counting on , It almost
seems like it has less power . That big 9" motor is not to peppy on 72v.
He's coming down tomorrow , wish I had advised him better or had asked the
list for advise, I did think it would go faster with the bigger motor but
now that I think about it I can see were running a motor a 1/2 it rated
voltage might not even give 1/2 it's hp
Steve Clunn
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you using the same controller or did you upgrade it as well. The problem
might be the controller and your shifting habits. The higher voltage motor
will need to be run at a lower RPM to get similar performance.
Here is a test to do.
1. Put the car in a middle gear at a dead stop.
2. Press the accelerator to the floor and watch the battery amps as the car
accelerates.
3. You will notice that the amps start out low when the car is at a stop.
The amps build up as the car gains speed. When the car reaches 100% PWM the
amps drop off because of the motor back EMF. The earlier motor ran at a
higher RPM than this motor to get the same power. Note the RPM where the
current peaked.
4. Retest the motor by shifting through all the gears when the RPM reaches
about 120% of the current peak RPM you observed.
This should give you some idea where the new motor likes to be shifted to
perform well.
The motor should produce the same amount of power as the older motor since
this test shows the controller power limit instead of the motor power limit.
The controller might be going into premature current limit if the motor
inductance is too low. You can confirm this by adding an inductor in series
with the motor and see if it perks up with the inductor installed.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 1:48 AM
Subject: 9" in a 72v car
> Russ W has been driving one of my conversions for almost 2 years and would
> like more power/speed . I used a 36volt fork lift motor from surplus
supply
> and a 72 volt savacom controller that I got from upgrading another EV
(also
> got a Lester 72v charger) . When I had the car I tried it with more bats
> (20)and a Curtis controller but the extra weight was to much for the small
> motor , it did go faster but not much and 12 golf cart bats seemed about
> right ( and I had the controller/charger for 72v) . I have talked to Russ
> about it , pointing out that it would really need 4 things , bigger
motor,
> bigger controller , more batteries ,and a different charger. With this in
> mind my advice was to sell it and start a new one. As nobody bought it we
> then talked of up grading and the motor seemed like the first place to
> start. Russ bought a nice new 9" net gain and last Friday brought the car
> over (100 mile trip) , His thoughts were to come Friday evening with car
on
> rented dolly and take it home Saturday (so as not to rent it twice). This
> was a little ambishes as we had to also make a new adaptor plate (but not
> the hub). I have another hyndi like his and we are using the tranny from
it
> as its a 5 speed . (my pay will be the old motor/tranny ) . Worked till
> midnight and then up early and by about 4 pm Russ could see it wasn't
going
> to be finished as he had planned. We did get allot done and the motor was
> sitting in the car , . I told Russ I'd work on it during the week as I
> wanted to take a little more time and straighten up a lot of lose ends. I
> didn't get to do all the stuff I saw that needed to be done ,done but
today
> I did test drive it . Here is something I was not counting on , It almost
> seems like it has less power . That big 9" motor is not to peppy on 72v.
> He's coming down tomorrow , wish I had advised him better or had asked the
> list for advise, I did think it would go faster with the bigger motor but
> now that I think about it I can see were running a motor a 1/2 it rated
> voltage might not even give 1/2 it's hp
> Steve Clunn
> .
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Having been through this kind of scenario with EVs, it will be
educating, and, unfortunately, entertaining to see it happen once
again with fcvs. Sigh, the skeptic in me is all over the
scene... Basically, I've learned that money talks, and that is
all that counts.
Chuck Hursch
Larkspur, CA
NBEAA treasurer and webmaster
www.geocities.com/nbeaa
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/339.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 12:33 AM
Subject: How to delay the coming of ...
> [ref http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVList/message/37205 ]
>
> Steve's POST states what the automakers did to kill
> production EVs. But a little rewording has me worried
> about the recent GM and Shell fcv commitment made in
> Wash DC:
>
> -
> 1. Give government fcv grants to people who waist the
> money and the Opportunity on pie-in-the-sky research
> which never bares fruit for the public.
>
> 2. Limit the distribution of fcvs to a chosen few cities,
> states, and fleets..
>
> 3. Pad the media with mis-information, such as "refueling
> will cost twice as much per mile, tanks are too small to
> go as far, are too complex to make, and too expensive to
> maintain, etc.
>
> 4. If you DO happen to see the big corporations build the
> finest fcv the world has ever seen, (i.e. GM ) DON'T let
> any one buy one, lease it only, and when the leases are up,
> yank the cars away from their screaming owners, gather them
> all up and CRUSH THEM !!
>
> 5. Cloud the issue, with promises of "fuel ion cars"
> some time in the far far future, without the public
> realizing that they will still have to fill up their future
> "fuel ion cars" from EXXON, Shell, Texaco, Chevron, and BP
> refueling stations, still giving all the POWER and Money to
> these corporate giants!!
> -
>
> Its a winning strategy that bilks the taxpayers, while the
> SUV profits are still coming in.
> I think Steve has foreseen the future.
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
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--- Begin Message ---
Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
Summary: Do not think there is free parking for Electric Vehicles
(EVs) in San Jose no matter what the media or the City of San Jose
says.
1) 3/14 3pm, I went to the 4th & San Fernando City parking structure.
I went out of my way to ask the friendly attendant, "So, Electric
Vehicles park for free, right?"
He said, "No, nothing is for free."
I mentioned that the City of San Jose announced to the media that
Electric Vehicles park for free.
...
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22san+Jose%22+%22park+for+free%22+electric
http://www.sjdowntownparking.com/freepark.htm
Are you driving an electric car or other approved "clean air
vehicle"? If so, the City of San Jose has a good deal for you.
You can park for free at all of the city-owned and operated
parking lots and garages, as well as in metered spaces on the
streets. All you need is a "Clean Air Vehicle" decal, which is
issued by the State of California Department of Motor Vehicles.
With the decal, single-occupant cars also are entitled to use
high occupancy vehicle (carpool) lanes on freeways. Currently,
hybrid cars, including the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight and Honda
Civic Hybrid, are not eligible at this time. Please note,
motorists of clean air vehicles must adhere to the posted time
restrictions at all parking meters.
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22san+Jose%22+%22park+for+free%22+electric
HOV stickers are not given to hybrids
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
Important Note: Gasoline powered vehicles, including-electric
hybrids, do not qualify for the HOV lane sticker.
...
The attendant and I had some back and forth, and he allowed me to
pull through, park and wait while he talked to his superiors in
the little office.
He came back with a less friendly guy from the office to back him
up, and said that Yes, Electrics can park for free, but yours
can't (I have a S-10 Blazer Electric conversion
http://brucedp.0catch.com/blazer/ )
I said, "Its been Electric since 1992", while pointing to the HOV
stickers (if I can get CA HOV stickers, the DMV knows I am an
Electric).
They said, "'That' (my EV conversion) is not on our list." Only
the
Electric Toyota RAV4 and the Honda Insight can park for free, and
use the six designated (Electric Vehicle - EV) parking spots.
I told them that the Insight was not an Electric, it was a
hybrid, and it should not park in teh EV spots because the Insight
dcan't be plugged in, its like a gas car and should park in
gas car spots.
They gave me a look like, 'What Ever!'. They said the City (of
San Jose) has RAV4's and they (the City of San Jose) will use
them (the six EV parking spots).
There are more EVs than the Toyota RAV4 EV, but they are not on
'their' list. Also, hybrids are not allowed free parking, because
the DMV does not given them HOV stickers (or decals). So, ONLY
RAV4 EVs are allowed (which is wrong), and Insight which is a
hybrid is allowed (which is wrong).
I went up to the six signed Electric Vehicle parking spots. They
were close to the entrance (thus premium parking), and a gas car
was parked in one of them (the Electric Vehicles Only sign was
visible through the windshield, but they ignored it and no one
is enforcing the EV parking). It turns out, Frank Hernandez of
the City of San Jose is the owner of the gas car that is parked
in the EV spot.
The last three of the nicely painted and signed EV spots had an
evi ics-200 AVCON conductive charger mounted in front of each.
http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/ics200.jpg
RAV4 EVs do not use the AVCON conductive charger. They use a
small paddle inductive charging head.
http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/inductivepaddles.jpg
The AVCONs installed won't charge Toyota RAV4 EVs that are
allowed, but the AVCONs installed will charge other EVs that
are NOT allowed.
I was told that the first three spots that do have not charger,
are later going to have chargers installed in them (meaning
each EV spot will have a charger). This is the wrong way to
set up EV charging.
First, the EV spots should not be placed in a premium location.
Gas cars are going to park there. EV spots should be located in
the least wanted spots (top floor, out of the way). EV drivers
can walk. EVs coming in for a charge to find gas cars parked in
front of the chargers does not let the EVs charge. It is better
to not put EV spots in premium locations where gas cars will park.
Second, EV charging heads should not be put in each spot, but in
every other EV spot. An EV charges fast, and if there is an EV
parking spot next to the charger as well as in front of the
charger, another EV can pull in, unplug the fully charged EV,
and plug in their EV. Having EV chargers without available EV
parking spaces in between reduces the use of the EV charging
head, thus wasting the tax payer money spent on the installation.
It should have an EV charger installed for every two EV parking
spots.
http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/cadavisuclot46-020903-4.jpg
http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/cacolmabart991121.jpg
2) A couple of months ago an EV driver took the City of San Jose up
on their offer that EVs park for free in San Jose. But he found a
ticket on his EV when he came back (he showed the ticket at a
San Jose EAA Chapter meeting to all the attending members). He
said, while the ticket was only $30, it was the principle of the
matter that if the City of San Jose says its free, then its free.
After much effort and time away from work, working his way
through the red tape of the City of San Jose government, and
presenting his case to the judge, the City of San Jose judge
acknowledged that the City of San Jose said EVs can park for
free, but he (the EV driver) was to pay the ticket anyway.
Conclusion
Because the City of San Jose parking people are uninformed, confused,
do not even obey their own rules, and the Meter-persons, City of
San Jose Government, and Judges are not on the same page ...
Electric Vehicles DO NOT Park free in San Jose.
EV drivers will only get burned.
Note: EV drivers do not 'need' free parking, and do appreciate
EV charging. But do not state that parking is free when it
isn't.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
Hi Bruce,
Sorry you met such idiots working for the city.
Two days ago, I parked under the SJ convention center and saved
myself $10 by being a EV. I just did this for the first time since I
was at a PCB conference in San Jose. I also tried out the Santa Clara
Costco chargers on the way down so I didn't have to pay to park at
the airport to charge. I found more people at Costco are curious
about EV's than at the airport. I even gave one of the mechanics a
brisk acceleration demonstration.
As I pull into the SJ garage:
Me, "Hi, this is a San Jose city garage, right?"
Attendant, "Yes"
Me, "Super! This is a electric vehicle so I get to park for free, how
do I go about doing that?"
Attendant, looks at my carpool exempt sticker on the side of the car...
"I need you to write your name and phone number on this exemption ticket"
The ticket had 6 boxes to check, of which EV was not one, but it was
no problem for this attendant. I filled it out and handed it back.
He let me right in and I got premium parking for free. I guess not
all of the attendants are clueless.
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ New Zilla controllers, now available.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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--- Begin Message ---
I just made the jump from 24 to 36V on my 1960 Market Shopper today - what a
difference!
Of course, once I brought it back after a couple miles of driving around
town, I smelled something.
"Ruh roh" I thought.
I feel the motor - a little warm but not hot by any measure.
I look at the "controller", which is a series of 3 contactor plates, and the
first one is black - and hot. Everything still works as normal, but a test
without the seat on reveals a pretty good sparking (arc?) action as the
metal hits the first contactor plate. Is this a livable condition, or will I
melt/catch the vehicle on fire? I'm sure that there was some arcing before,
but it never made the contactor plate turn black.
Seth
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Recently there have been a rush of media items about the
death of the EV1 line:
-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,3604,912956,00.html
City diary
Richard Adams
Thursday March 13, 2003
The Guardian
[...]
� When Jack Smith, chief executive of General Motors, unveiled
the EV1 electric car, he said it would "define the GM of the
future". Yesterday GM pulled the plug - literally - on its
electric car programme and recalled all EV1s. Mmm, what does
that say about GM's future?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
Even so far as having crying EV1 drivers reported to say how
great the EV was, etc.
While we all know this, why is it now that the decision
is made that the media is re-hashing this. GM is not going
to suddenly change their mind. So why is the media
re-living the EV driver's pain.
Where were they, when they were towing the automaker's lies?
Why isn't there pieces on Honda EV pluses, Think City's,
and the Toyota RAV4?
...
Today when plugging into two 14-50 circuits (12kw of power)
I got to talk to the red EV1 driver nearby. He said he
gets to keep his EV1 for 10 more months and then its crushed.
We both had a good verbal cry of how great the EV1 is, and
how it will be lost.
But all the articles about EV1s been recalled is moot. GM
has the power to yank these, and crush them. Why re-report
what they helped cause?
How about someone pulling the media's pants down and have
them admit their involvement in stating the automaker's lies?
Watt do you think?
=====
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Contact Kenji Yoshida [EMAIL PROTECTED]
at Panasonic. He should be able to help.
Marc Kohler
----- Original Message -----
From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 7:26 PM
Subject: NiMh batts
> We here at the University of Nevada, Reno, have acquired a few of the
> NiMh panasonic 95 ah 12 volt batteries these are the same as the Toyota
> rav4 batteries. We were researching these and could find very little
> technical info.on them even the Panasonic Ev site has little beyond
> very basic info, capacity physical size etc.
> We are searching for much more detailed specs, graphs, charging curves,
> max depth of discharge, max discharge current, Cx? temp management,
> cooling? and basic BMS for this type, any info would be greatly
> appreciated, Bill
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
There are some Hawker Batteries listed in the latest Surplus Center Catalog
on Page 93. 1-800-488-3407
Probably good for scooters, go-karts or racing.
Specs:
$29.95
12-volt sealed rechargeable
51 amp hours
Screw terminals
8 5/8 x 4 3/4 x 10 1/4
45 lbs
Only problem is the shipping charges which are pretty expensive. Cheapest
rate to ship one battery to my area would cost like $23.00. Maybe if you
were able to buy several and ship motor freight it would be cheaper.
Chip Gribben
****************************************##*
NEDRA Power of DC Racing Coordinator/Webmaster
http://www.powerofdc.com
EVA/DC Webmaster
http://www.evadc.com
Scooter Repair Tech
SkooterCommuter
http://www.skootercommuter.com
144 Volt Electric Ford Escort
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--- Begin Message ---
Seth, when you increased your stack voltage you increased the initial amp
draw a good deal. Your contacts may not be making good connection. It may be
time to consider upgrading to a modern electronic motor speed controller.
You can still keep your forward and reverse switch if the contacts are good.
The old carts used a fairy decent size piece of copper bar that rotated
several degrees to change contact points. If you want to upgrade that also I
would recommend going to the E-Z-GO forward/reverse switch. It is the most
heavy duty one in the golf cart market. It has 5/16" copper studs and good
surface area. It can also be improved for even higher amp duty by replacing
the copper contact bars on the back with thicker ones. They are also quite
affordable at under $40.00. I recommend them quite often for boats and
go-carts.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 12:10 AM
Subject: Am I frying my "controller"?
> I just made the jump from 24 to 36V on my 1960 Market Shopper today - what
a
> difference!
>
> Of course, once I brought it back after a couple miles of driving around
> town, I smelled something.
>
> "Ruh roh" I thought.
>
> I feel the motor - a little warm but not hot by any measure.
>
> I look at the "controller", which is a series of 3 contactor plates, and
the
> first one is black - and hot. Everything still works as normal, but a test
> without the seat on reveals a pretty good sparking (arc?) action as the
> metal hits the first contactor plate. Is this a livable condition, or will
I
> melt/catch the vehicle on fire? I'm sure that there was some arcing
before,
> but it never made the contactor plate turn black.
>
> Seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
the file Ohr.bat (attachment) contained a worm, as my antivirus said
-- hope nobody else was hit
regards
txtserve
--
+++ GMX - Mail, Messaging & more http://www.gmx.net +++
Bitte l�cheln! Fotogalerie online mit GMX ohne eigene Homepage!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/13/03 2:21:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Otherwise you owe CA for *your* well being, don't you? >>
No.
In 1966 or so, Californians voted to use cleaner natural gas for their
powerplants.
The result is cleaner air and electricity that costs 14.51 cents per kwh. I
can live with that.
When the big crisis hit, my electricity bill jumped from $90 a month to
almost $400 a month. This was due to the deregulation fiasco that I voted
against, and a lot of gross mismanagement.
They propose to tax those who conserve while they run expensive TV adds
asking us to conserve.... makes no sense to me at all.
When they refund the $1200 or so extra that I HAD to pay to keep my lights
on, and the arrogant hag SDGE payment wench apologizes for treating me like a
deadbeat bill dodger when I couldn't pony up the unexpected $300 for that
first huge bill, reimburse the $375 I had to spend to replace the pool pump
motor that burned up during one of the numerous brown outs, and I get a
public apology from the field rep who told my 9 year old grandson that all
the food in the fridge will spoil if Grandpa doesnt pay his bills like a good
citizen;
Then California and I will be even.
I don't expect to owe California anything ever.
Ben "deregulation sucks" Hazel
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