EV Digest 2649
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Link10 and DC-to-DC converter woes
by "Mark Dodrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Link10 and DC-to-DC converter woes
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Link10 and DC-to-DC converter woes
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Future of LiIon
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Future of LiIon
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 9" in a 72v car
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: NiMh batts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 9 inch at high rpm
by Martin Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Link10 and DC-to-DC converter woes
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Twelve 8v batterys in a leopard
by Jack Waddell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Twelve 8v batterys in a leopard
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Link10 and DC-to-DC converter woes
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Future of LiIon
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I'm having trouble with my Link10 meter resetting itself many times during
the course of my driving and charging, and I'm hoping someone on the list
can help me out. I have a 120v DC system, with a Sevcon Generation II
DC-to-DC converter (128v to 12v it says on the box), with an accessory
battery. The way it is wired, the DC to DC converter is always on, when the
main disconnect isn't cut out (which basically means all the time). The
DC-to-DC converter output is set to 14.2 volts.
The symptom is the Link10 turning off briefly, then flashing, as it does
when it doesn't have enough voltage to maintain its state. It happens
during charging and during discharging, but more often during discharging.
It happens when there is both small and large draws on the pack. It happens
when there is little DC-to-DC converter load, and when there is a lot, but
more often when there is a lot of load (30 amps @ 12v is the max of the
DC-to-DC converter). I can't seem to come up with any definite scenario or
reason why it might reset at one time, and not another. Sometimes, it will
reset 10 or so times in a row, with nothing else changing, which is very
weird. It also doesn't seem to matter if the pack is freshly charged or
not.
I changed over from a Panasonic 12v accessory battery that is at least
several years old, to two 6v UPS batteries in series, and after I changed
this out, it seemed to be better for a while, but now it's back to what it
was.
I should probably change the setup to only have the DC-to-DC converter on
when the key is on, but I don't see how that relates to this problem. Any
ideas on what is wrong or what else I should try? The wiring to the E-meter
seems to be fine, and it isn't moving.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi mark -
do you have a separate isolated DC/DC converter for the EMeter? I
think your problem could be from some sort of ground fault, although
I'm not sure. Good luck
Seth
On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 02:27 PM, Mark Dodrill wrote:
I'm having trouble with my Link10 meter resetting itself many times
during
the course of my driving and charging, and I'm hoping someone on the
list
can help me out. I have a 120v DC system, with a Sevcon Generation II
DC-to-DC converter (128v to 12v it says on the box), with an accessory
battery. The way it is wired, the DC to DC converter is always on,
when the
main disconnect isn't cut out (which basically means all the time).
The
DC-to-DC converter output is set to 14.2 volts.
The symptom is the Link10 turning off briefly, then flashing, as it
does
when it doesn't have enough voltage to maintain its state. It happens
during charging and during discharging, but more often during
discharging.
It happens when there is both small and large draws on the pack. It
happens
when there is little DC-to-DC converter load, and when there is a lot,
but
more often when there is a lot of load (30 amps @ 12v is the max of the
DC-to-DC converter). I can't seem to come up with any definite
scenario or
reason why it might reset at one time, and not another. Sometimes, it
will
reset 10 or so times in a row, with nothing else changing, which is
very
weird. It also doesn't seem to matter if the pack is freshly charged
or
not.
I changed over from a Panasonic 12v accessory battery that is at least
several years old, to two 6v UPS batteries in series, and after I
changed
this out, it seemed to be better for a while, but now it's back to
what it
was.
I should probably change the setup to only have the DC-to-DC converter
on
when the key is on, but I don't see how that relates to this problem.
Any
ideas on what is wrong or what else I should try? The wiring to the
E-meter
seems to be fine, and it isn't moving.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Mark
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth,
I'm going to take a leap and say that either a)
your leads are not twisted, or b) you have one of the
older series of Link 10s that need a surge suppression
circuit (or some derivative thereof). It consists of
a 1000 uF capacitor, a couple of resistors; I have the
schematic around here somewhere, but I think Lee has
it in ASCII.
Hope you de-bug the situation.
--- Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi mark -
>
> do you have a separate isolated DC/DC converter for
> the EMeter? I
> think your problem could be from some sort of ground
> fault, although
> I'm not sure. Good luck
>
> Seth
>
>
>
> On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 02:27 PM, Mark
> Dodrill wrote:
>
> > I'm having trouble with my Link10 meter resetting
> itself many times
> > during
> > the course of my driving and charging, and I'm
> hoping someone on the
> > list
> > can help me out. I have a 120v DC system, with a
> Sevcon Generation II
> > DC-to-DC converter (128v to 12v it says on the
> box), with an accessory
> > battery. The way it is wired, the DC to DC
> converter is always on,
> > when the
> > main disconnect isn't cut out (which basically
> means all the time).
> > The
> > DC-to-DC converter output is set to 14.2 volts.
> >
> > The symptom is the Link10 turning off briefly,
> then flashing, as it
> > does
> > when it doesn't have enough voltage to maintain
> its state. It happens
> > during charging and during discharging, but more
> often during
> > discharging.
> > It happens when there is both small and large
> draws on the pack. It
> > happens
> > when there is little DC-to-DC converter load, and
> when there is a lot,
> > but
> > more often when there is a lot of load (30 amps @
> 12v is the max of the
> > DC-to-DC converter). I can't seem to come up with
> any definite
> > scenario or
> > reason why it might reset at one time, and not
> another. Sometimes, it
> > will
> > reset 10 or so times in a row, with nothing else
> changing, which is
> > very
> > weird. It also doesn't seem to matter if the pack
> is freshly charged
> > or
> > not.
> >
> > I changed over from a Panasonic 12v accessory
> battery that is at least
> > several years old, to two 6v UPS batteries in
> series, and after I
> > changed
> > this out, it seemed to be better for a while, but
> now it's back to
> > what it
> > was.
> >
> > I should probably change the setup to only have
> the DC-to-DC converter
> > on
> > when the key is on, but I don't see how that
> relates to this problem.
> > Any
> > ideas on what is wrong or what else I should try?
> The wiring to the
> > E-meter
> > seems to be fine, and it isn't moving.
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughts.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> The Mk3 is intended to be a datalogger, to keep track of what you
> have done to your poor battery. A datalogger that doesn't work
> under adverse conditions is failing to save data exactly when you
> may want it most.
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Correction Lee!! The MK3 also will have a Reg Function, and be
> able to be programmed down the wire.
Sorry, Rich. I didn't mean the Mk3's *only* function was datalogging;
just that *one* of its functions was datalogging. That means it should
keep working even under adverse conditions.
> Also as Sheer has put it bluntly, if a Reg Browns out, well it's
> under 2.00 volts and the Host system can just mark the absent data
> as less than 2.00 volts, Take apropriate actions!
It's 2v at the micro; there is obviously circuity between the battery
and micro, so the battery is at some higher voltage when the micro
crashes.
Also, the data becomes useless well before the micro actually crashes.
Once the reference quits working, your voltage measurements don't work.
2.00v on any chemistry even single cells of Lion is DEATH mode.
The LiIon could be momentarily pulled down to 2v under a heavy load. You
don't want the micro to crash or log bad data when this happens, do you?
The last design I saw for the Mk3 was designed only for 12v batteries.
It would be quite a stretch to use it for 3v LiIon cells. I think it
needs a whole new design.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> even the plain old lead-acid battery doesn't achieve 30% of its
>> theoretical yield. Most of the lead is simply used for physical
>> support and to carry current.
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> Wasn't that the original idea behind the Horizon battery?
Yes, that's one of them. They used fiberglass instead of bulk lead to
hold the plates together. Fiberglass is strong, but still heavy and it
doesn't carry current.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You're right; the motor is not peppy at 72 volts. It needs 144 volts and
a controller that can supply it with at least 600 amperes. There's no free
lunch; a big motor needs plenty of voltage and current. What kind of
car is this motor in?
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 1:48 AM
Subject: 9" in a 72v car
> Russ W has been driving one of my conversions for almost 2 years and would
> like more power/speed . I used a 36volt fork lift motor from surplus
supply
> and a 72 volt savacom controller that I got from upgrading another EV
(also
> got a Lester 72v charger) . When I had the car I tried it with more bats
> (20)and a Curtis controller but the extra weight was to much for the small
> motor , it did go faster but not much and 12 golf cart bats seemed about
> right ( and I had the controller/charger for 72v) . I have talked to Russ
> about it , pointing out that it would really need 4 things , bigger
motor,
> bigger controller , more batteries ,and a different charger. With this in
> mind my advice was to sell it and start a new one. As nobody bought it we
> then talked of up grading and the motor seemed like the first place to
> start. Russ bought a nice new 9" net gain and last Friday brought the car
> over (100 mile trip) , His thoughts were to come Friday evening with car
on
> rented dolly and take it home Saturday (so as not to rent it twice). This
> was a little ambishes as we had to also make a new adaptor plate (but not
> the hub). I have another hyndi like his and we are using the tranny from
it
> as its a 5 speed . (my pay will be the old motor/tranny ) . Worked till
> midnight and then up early and by about 4 pm Russ could see it wasn't
going
> to be finished as he had planned. We did get allot done and the motor was
> sitting in the car , . I told Russ I'd work on it during the week as I
> wanted to take a little more time and straighten up a lot of lose ends. I
> didn't get to do all the stuff I saw that needed to be done ,done but
today
> I did test drive it . Here is something I was not counting on , It almost
> seems like it has less power . That big 9" motor is not to peppy on 72v.
> He's coming down tomorrow , wish I had advised him better or had asked the
> list for advise, I did think it would go faster with the bigger motor but
> now that I think about it I can see were running a motor a 1/2 it rated
> voltage might not even give 1/2 it's hp
> Steve Clunn
> .
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could you give the physical size of these batteries? Thank you. Lawrence
Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "billb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 5:26 PM
Subject: NiMh batts
> We here at the University of Nevada, Reno, have acquired a few of the
> NiMh panasonic 95 ah 12 volt batteries these are the same as the Toyota
> rav4 batteries. We were researching these and could find very little
> technical info.on them even the Panasonic Ev site has little beyond
> very basic info, capacity physical size etc.
> We are searching for much more detailed specs, graphs, charging curves,
> max depth of discharge, max discharge current, Cx? temp management,
> cooling? and basic BMS for this type, any info would be greatly
> appreciated, Bill
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The City of San Jose is an unfriendly parking zone altogether. Add that
parking in yellow loading zones in San Jose is a money maker for the city.
Unlike other juristictions that allow parking in loading zones after 6 pm
daily. All loading zones in San Jose are 24 hour unless marked otherwise.
Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:27 PM
Subject: Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
> Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
>
> Summary: Do not think there is free parking for Electric Vehicles
> (EVs) in San Jose no matter what the media or the City of San Jose
> says.
>
>
> 1) 3/14 3pm, I went to the 4th & San Fernando City parking structure.
> I went out of my way to ask the friendly attendant, "So, Electric
> Vehicles park for free, right?"
>
> He said, "No, nothing is for free."
> I mentioned that the City of San Jose announced to the media that
> Electric Vehicles park for free.
>
> ...
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22san+Jose%22+%22park+for+free%22+electric
> http://www.sjdowntownparking.com/freepark.htm
> Are you driving an electric car or other approved "clean air
> vehicle"? If so, the City of San Jose has a good deal for you.
> You can park for free at all of the city-owned and operated
> parking lots and garages, as well as in metered spaces on the
> streets. All you need is a "Clean Air Vehicle" decal, which is
> issued by the State of California Department of Motor Vehicles.
> With the decal, single-occupant cars also are entitled to use
> high occupancy vehicle (carpool) lanes on freeways. Currently,
> hybrid cars, including the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight and Honda
> Civic Hybrid, are not eligible at this time. Please note,
> motorists of clean air vehicles must adhere to the posted time
> restrictions at all parking meters.
>
>
>
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22san+Jose%22+%22park+for+free%22+electric
>
> HOV stickers are not given to hybrids
> http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
> Important Note: Gasoline powered vehicles, including-electric
> hybrids, do not qualify for the HOV lane sticker.
> ...
>
> The attendant and I had some back and forth, and he allowed me to
> pull through, park and wait while he talked to his superiors in
> the little office.
>
> He came back with a less friendly guy from the office to back him
> up, and said that Yes, Electrics can park for free, but yours
> can't (I have a S-10 Blazer Electric conversion
> http://brucedp.0catch.com/blazer/ )
>
> I said, "Its been Electric since 1992", while pointing to the HOV
> stickers (if I can get CA HOV stickers, the DMV knows I am an
> Electric).
>
> They said, "'That' (my EV conversion) is not on our list." Only
> the
> Electric Toyota RAV4 and the Honda Insight can park for free, and
> use the six designated (Electric Vehicle - EV) parking spots.
>
> I told them that the Insight was not an Electric, it was a
> hybrid, and it should not park in teh EV spots because the Insight
> dcan't be plugged in, its like a gas car and should park in
> gas car spots.
>
> They gave me a look like, 'What Ever!'. They said the City (of
> San Jose) has RAV4's and they (the City of San Jose) will use
> them (the six EV parking spots).
>
> There are more EVs than the Toyota RAV4 EV, but they are not on
> 'their' list. Also, hybrids are not allowed free parking, because
> the DMV does not given them HOV stickers (or decals). So, ONLY
> RAV4 EVs are allowed (which is wrong), and Insight which is a
> hybrid is allowed (which is wrong).
>
> I went up to the six signed Electric Vehicle parking spots. They
> were close to the entrance (thus premium parking), and a gas car
> was parked in one of them (the Electric Vehicles Only sign was
> visible through the windshield, but they ignored it and no one
> is enforcing the EV parking). It turns out, Frank Hernandez of
> the City of San Jose is the owner of the gas car that is parked
> in the EV spot.
>
> The last three of the nicely painted and signed EV spots had an
> evi ics-200 AVCON conductive charger mounted in front of each.
> http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/ics200.jpg
>
> RAV4 EVs do not use the AVCON conductive charger. They use a
> small paddle inductive charging head.
> http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/inductivepaddles.jpg
>
> The AVCONs installed won't charge Toyota RAV4 EVs that are
> allowed, but the AVCONs installed will charge other EVs that
> are NOT allowed.
>
> I was told that the first three spots that do have not charger,
> are later going to have chargers installed in them (meaning
> each EV spot will have a charger). This is the wrong way to
> set up EV charging.
>
> First, the EV spots should not be placed in a premium location.
> Gas cars are going to park there. EV spots should be located in
> the least wanted spots (top floor, out of the way). EV drivers
> can walk. EVs coming in for a charge to find gas cars parked in
> front of the chargers does not let the EVs charge. It is better
> to not put EV spots in premium locations where gas cars will park.
>
> Second, EV charging heads should not be put in each spot, but in
> every other EV spot. An EV charges fast, and if there is an EV
> parking spot next to the charger as well as in front of the
> charger, another EV can pull in, unplug the fully charged EV,
> and plug in their EV. Having EV chargers without available EV
> parking spaces in between reduces the use of the EV charging
> head, thus wasting the tax payer money spent on the installation.
> It should have an EV charger installed for every two EV parking
> spots.
> http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/cadavisuclot46-020903-4.jpg
> http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/cacolmabart991121.jpg
>
> 2) A couple of months ago an EV driver took the City of San Jose up
> on their offer that EVs park for free in San Jose. But he found a
> ticket on his EV when he came back (he showed the ticket at a
> San Jose EAA Chapter meeting to all the attending members). He
> said, while the ticket was only $30, it was the principle of the
> matter that if the City of San Jose says its free, then its free.
> After much effort and time away from work, working his way
> through the red tape of the City of San Jose government, and
> presenting his case to the judge, the City of San Jose judge
> acknowledged that the City of San Jose said EVs can park for
> free, but he (the EV driver) was to pay the ticket anyway.
>
>
> Conclusion
> Because the City of San Jose parking people are uninformed, confused,
> do not even obey their own rules, and the Meter-persons, City of
> San Jose Government, and Judges are not on the same page ...
>
> Electric Vehicles DO NOT Park free in San Jose.
> EV drivers will only get burned.
>
> Note: EV drivers do not 'need' free parking, and do appreciate
> EV charging. But do not state that parking is free when it
> isn't.
>
>
>
>
>
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rich & Alain;
I Wrote:
> More importantly, I've been looking at the 9 inch ADC motor data from
> various sources and have a caution. Above 5000 rpm, the internal
> fan becomes less effective. When I know more, I'll write something
> better. In the meantime, watch motor temperature at high rpm combined
> with high Amps. With the fan flowing less, the motor will heat up
> faster at constant Amps. Good luck with your move.
Rich wrote:
"This is NOT a issue. The fan takes more HP to spin at high rpms, but the
Fan does move LOTS of air up there.
centrifugal fans take more HP as a square of the tip rpm. But that's ok
for cooling!!!"
The power taken by the fan drops severely above 120 V and 5000 rpm
according to test data I believe was provided by ADC. That data shows
an increase in efficiency to 95 % which is not otherwise explicable.
The source was a curve I got from the web somewhere (wish I knew
where) that is larger, but the same as fig. 7-8, p. 185 in Brants
'Build Your Own Electric Vehicle'. If you look at the 120 V line, the
speed jumps up such that the line isn't in the same family as the
others.
The test data is the product of a standard test procedure that I don't
have access to, but which does demonstrate variability in efficiency
suggesting data was taken both cold (loading) and hot (unloading).
I have generated equations for the loss (1 - efficiency) and the
fan is apparently in stall at this point. This wouldn't affect a small
car, but might be noticeable in a truck cruising at 5000 rpm for a
long time. This can be explained in part by the need for the motor to
be able to turn in both directions and it is not optimized for best
stall performance. My analysis isn't finished and checked, so I am
only urging caution.
______________________________________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hey guys - I have personally received a couple of responses to mark's
post. My emeter works fine, Mark needs the help, not me :-)
Seth
On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 02:58 PM, Bob Bath wrote:
Hi Seth,
I'm going to take a leap and say that either a)
your leads are not twisted, or b) you have one of the
older series of Link 10s that need a surge suppression
circuit (or some derivative thereof). It consists of
a 1000 uF capacitor, a couple of resistors; I have the
schematic around here somewhere, but I think Lee has
it in ASCII.
Hope you de-bug the situation.
--- Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hi mark -
do you have a separate isolated DC/DC converter for
the EMeter? I
think your problem could be from some sort of ground
fault, although
I'm not sure. Good luck
Seth
On Saturday, March 15, 2003, at 02:27 PM, Mark
Dodrill wrote:
I'm having trouble with my Link10 meter resetting
itself many times
during
the course of my driving and charging, and I'm
hoping someone on the
list
can help me out. I have a 120v DC system, with a
Sevcon Generation II
DC-to-DC converter (128v to 12v it says on the
box), with an accessory
battery. The way it is wired, the DC to DC
converter is always on,
when the
main disconnect isn't cut out (which basically
means all the time).
The
DC-to-DC converter output is set to 14.2 volts.
The symptom is the Link10 turning off briefly,
then flashing, as it
does
when it doesn't have enough voltage to maintain
its state. It happens
during charging and during discharging, but more
often during
discharging.
It happens when there is both small and large
draws on the pack. It
happens
when there is little DC-to-DC converter load, and
when there is a lot,
but
more often when there is a lot of load (30 amps @
12v is the max of the
DC-to-DC converter). I can't seem to come up with
any definite
scenario or
reason why it might reset at one time, and not
another. Sometimes, it
will
reset 10 or so times in a row, with nothing else
changing, which is
very
weird. It also doesn't seem to matter if the pack
is freshly charged
or
not.
I changed over from a Panasonic 12v accessory
battery that is at least
several years old, to two 6v UPS batteries in
series, and after I
changed
this out, it seemed to be better for a while, but
now it's back to
what it
was.
I should probably change the setup to only have
the DC-to-DC converter
on
when the key is on, but I don't see how that
relates to this problem.
Any
ideas on what is wrong or what else I should try?
The wiring to the
E-meter
seems to be fine, and it isn't moving.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Mark
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
--- End Message ---
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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Hello Joe,
> The first thing that jumped out at me when I saw the pictures was "the
tires
> are too small". Your experience seems to bear that out.
Yes, we've know from the start that those wheels wouldn't be any good. They
are left over from when the cart was a low speed vehicle. Any suggestions on
some better wheels? I'll have to see if you can get proper go-kart tyres
with that size OD (12").
> The other thing that jumped out at me was the sprocket is a long way out
> from the motor bearing. If the motor is potent enough to spin the tires
> (which it seems to be) then you are putting a large side load on the shaft
> producing a "rolling flexure" that will eventually crack the shaft where
it
> enters the motor housing. I have a motor like this with a broken shaft
from
> some one who built a machine similar to yours. It may take years to break
or
> less than 10 minutes in my situation. We all live and learn.
Hmmm, thanks for alertingme to that. Unfortuantley, without starting over it
can't be made any closer because the bottom sprocket hub will foul on the
motor mountings.
> Your axle needs a center bearing on it as well. My rule of thumb is to try
> to keep the sprocket to bearing distance less than the diameter of the
> shaft. While I have been applying that rule, no shafts have broken.
Someone
> might have a more definitive formula but mine is simple enough to
remember.
Good idea.
> I will be building something like this in the future and like what I see.
> Keep up the good work.
Thanks, I think I'll try some better wheels on my kart and see what that
does. Once we've extracted all the fun and worked out what happens when,
I'll get a prebuilt racing chassis and start on MKII.
Dean
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Hi Steve,
Yup, you're the Steve I'm talking about! I still have more footage to shoot
but I'll get it to you eventually.
Thanks
Dean
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 4:38 AM
Subject: Re: Go-Kart is a Goer!
>
> . I've also go to finish making my video for Steve. I've already
> > got plans for a lightweight kart with a bigger motor and a proper racing
> > chassis :) I've also discovered that the current motor is too powerful
for
> > the old chassis and things bend/come loose, etc. Strange things can
> > certainly happen when you are throwing a lot of torque and weight
around.
> > Anyway, I hope some people find this interesting, it's certainly
motivated
> > me to undertake more EV projects!
> >
> > Thanks
> > Dean
> >
>
> Hi Dean
> If I'm the Steve your talking about that's great! My EV friend Tom in
> Okeechobee has his wife editing the Mazda conversion and any footage of
> other EV projects is needed . For sending me some video of your project
> you'll get a copy free.
> Steve Clunn
> www.grassrootsev.com
>
>
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> The legs go over the top of the batteries. Most go karts are driven with
the
> knees bent at a 90 degree angle.
That's right, it sounds rather awkward but it's actually not that bad when
you are sitting in the thing and driving it around.
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Lawrence,
Ah yes but parking is free after 6:00 and on weekends.
http://www.sjdowntownparking.com/freepark.htm
Steve
In a message dated 3/15/2003 4:37:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
>
>
> The City of San Jose is an unfriendly parking zone altogether. Add that
> parking in yellow loading zones in San Jose is a money maker for the city.
> Unlike other juristictions that allow parking in loading zones after 6 pm
> daily. All loading zones in San Jose are 24 hour unless marked otherwise.
> Lawrence Rhodes...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 11:27 PM
> Subject: Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
>
>
> > Electric Vehicles DO NOT park free in San Jose
> >
> > Summary: Do not think there is free parking for Electric Vehicles
> > (EVs) in San Jose no matter what the media or the City of San Jose
> > says.
> >
> >
> > 1) 3/14 3pm, I went to the 4th & San Fernando City parking structure.
> > I went out of my way to ask the friendly attendant, "So, Electric
> > Vehicles park for free, right?"
> >
> > He said, "No, nothing is for free."
> > I mentioned that the City of San Jose announced to the media that
> > Electric Vehicles park for free.
> >
> > ...
> >
> >
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22san+Jose%22+%22park+for+free%22+electric
> > http://www.sjdowntownparking.com/freepark.htm
> > Are you driving an electric car or other approved "clean air
> > vehicle"? If so, the City of San Jose has a good deal for you.
> > You can park for free at all of the city-owned and operated
> > parking lots and garages, as well as in metered spaces on the
> > streets. All you need is a "Clean Air Vehicle" decal, which is
> > issued by the State of California Department of Motor Vehicles.
> > With the decal, single-occupant cars also are entitled to use
> > high occupancy vehicle (carpool) lanes on freeways. Currently,
> > hybrid cars, including the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight and Honda
> > Civic Hybrid, are not eligible at this time. Please note,
> > motorists of clean air vehicles must adhere to the posted time
> > restrictions at all parking meters.
> >
> >
> >
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22san+Jose%22+%22park+for+free%22+electric
> >
> > HOV stickers are not given to hybrids
> > http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
> > Important Note: Gasoline powered vehicles, including-electric
> > hybrids, do not qualify for the HOV lane sticker.
> > ...
> >
> > The attendant and I had some back and forth, and he allowed me to
> > pull through, park and wait while he talked to his superiors in
> > the little office.
> >
> > He came back with a less friendly guy from the office to back him
> > up, and said that Yes, Electrics can park for free, but yours
> > can't (I have a S-10 Blazer Electric conversion
> > http://brucedp.0catch.com/blazer/ )
> >
> > I said, "Its been Electric since 1992", while pointing to the HOV
> > stickers (if I can get CA HOV stickers, the DMV knows I am an
> > Electric).
> >
> > They said, "'That' (my EV conversion) is not on our list." Only
> > the
> > Electric Toyota RAV4 and the Honda Insight can park for free, and
> > use the six designated (Electric Vehicle - EV) parking spots.
> >
> > I told them that the Insight was not an Electric, it was a
> > hybrid, and it should not park in teh EV spots because the Insight
> > dcan't be plugged in, its like a gas car and should park in
> > gas car spots.
> >
> > They gave me a look like, 'What Ever!'. They said the City (of
> > San Jose) has RAV4's and they (the City of San Jose) will use
> > them (the six EV parking spots).
> >
> > There are more EVs than the Toyota RAV4 EV, but they are not on
> > 'their' list. Also, hybrids are not allowed free parking, because
> > the DMV does not given them HOV stickers (or decals). So, ONLY
> > RAV4 EVs are allowed (which is wrong), and Insight which is a
> > hybrid is allowed (which is wrong).
> >
> > I went up to the six signed Electric Vehicle parking spots. They
> > were close to the entrance (thus premium parking), and a gas car
> > was parked in one of them (the Electric Vehicles Only sign was
> > visible through the windshield, but they ignored it and no one
> > is enforcing the EV parking). It turns out, Frank Hernandez of
> > the City of San Jose is the owner of the gas car that is parked
> > in the EV spot.
> >
> > The last three of the nicely painted and signed EV spots had an
> > evi ics-200 AVCON conductive charger mounted in front of each.
> > http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/ics200.jpg
> >
> > RAV4 EVs do not use the AVCON conductive charger. They use a
> > small paddle inductive charging head.
> > http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/inductivepaddles.jpg
> >
> > The AVCONs installed won't charge Toyota RAV4 EVs that are
> > allowed, but the AVCONs installed will charge other EVs that
> > are NOT allowed.
> >
> > I was told that the first three spots that do have not charger,
> > are later going to have chargers installed in them (meaning
> > each EV spot will have a charger). This is the wrong way to
> > set up EV charging.
> >
> > First, the EV spots should not be placed in a premium location.
> > Gas cars are going to park there. EV spots should be located in
> > the least wanted spots (top floor, out of the way). EV drivers
> > can walk. EVs coming in for a charge to find gas cars parked in
> > front of the chargers does not let the EVs charge. It is better
> > to not put EV spots in premium locations where gas cars will park.
> >
> > Second, EV charging heads should not be put in each spot, but in
> > every other EV spot. An EV charges fast, and if there is an EV
> > parking spot next to the charger as well as in front of the
> > charger, another EV can pull in, unplug the fully charged EV,
> > and plug in their EV. Having EV chargers without available EV
> > parking spaces in between reduces the use of the EV charging
> > head, thus wasting the tax payer money spent on the installation.
> > It should have an EV charger installed for every two EV parking
> > spots.
> > http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/cadavisuclot46-020903-4.jpg
> > http://geocities.com/evcharging/images/cacolmabart991121.jpg
> >
> > 2) A couple of months ago an EV driver took the City of San Jose up
> > on their offer that EVs park for free in San Jose. But he found a
> > ticket on his EV when he came back (he showed the ticket at a
> > San Jose EAA Chapter meeting to all the attending members). He
> > said, while the ticket was only $30, it was the principle of the
> > matter that if the City of San Jose says its free, then its free.
> > After much effort and time away from work, working his way
> > through the red tape of the City of San Jose government, and
> > presenting his case to the judge, the City of San Jose judge
> > acknowledged that the City of San Jose said EVs can park for
> > free, but he (the EV driver) was to pay the ticket anyway.
> >
> >
> > Conclusion
> > Because the City of San Jose parking people are uninformed, confused,
> > do not even obey their own rules, and the Meter-persons, City of
> > San Jose Government, and Judges are not on the same page ...
> >
> > Electric Vehicles DO NOT Park free in San Jose.
> > EV drivers will only get burned.
> >
> > Note: EV drivers do not 'need' free parking, and do
> appreciate
> > EV charging. But do not state that parking is free when it
> > isn't.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > ' ____
> > ~/__|o\__
> > '@----- @'---(=
> > . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> > . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> > . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
> > http://webhosting.yahoo.com
> >
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Jack Waddell wrote:
>
> * LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
(Jack, posts on the EV list need to be in plain text, not HTML, or it
will get stripped out).
You asked about alternate battery configurations for a 1980 Lectric
Leopard. I've driven a stock Leopard, as well as versions with twelve 8v
batteries, ten 12v, sixteen 12v, and my own Leopard with twelve 12v
batteries.
You range is almost totally controlled by total battery weight. Any
battery voltage or configuration that weighs about the same as stock
(sixteen 6v golf cart batteries = 1000 lbs) will give you the same 40-50
mile range. Lighten the pack, and the range will drop. I have a 30-35
mile range with my 690 lbs pack.
If you keep the stock 48v Prestolite motor, 96v is probably as high as
you'd want to go. You would need an appropriate controller. The one I
drove with twelve 8v golf cart batteries had a Curtis 1221B controller.
It was considerably faster than stock, both because of the higher
voltage and the lighter battery weight.
Above this, you have to change the motor (and the controller to match).
The stock 24v/48v contactor controller is totally inadequate. If you
insist on keeping a contactor controller, you'd need 3 steps as a bare
minimum, and would have to use higher-voltage contactors.
All things being equal (same type and weight of batteries, same physical
size motor, etc.) there is no particular advangate to higher voltages.
Higher voltage only helps when it enables you to make other changes,
like using 12v AGM batteries instead of floodeds, or forcing a low
voltage motor to run faster by applying higher than nameplate voltage.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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Mark Dodrill wrote:
> I'm having trouble with my Link10 meter resetting itself...
> I have a 120v DC system, with a Sevcon Generation II DC-to-DC
> converter, with an accessory battery.
Do you have a separate small DC/DC just for the Link 10? The Link 10
(E-meter) must have an ISOLATED source of 12v power -- you can't run it
directly off the 12v accessory battery or DC/DC converter. Doing so
creates a short between the propulsion pack negative and the accessory
battery negative.
If you have the 1/15/98 version of the manual, the EV installation
schematic on page 47 is WRONG! The connection between the shunt and the
Accessory battery - should NOT be present.
Secondly, the "EV" version of the Link 10 has an extra filter on its
+12v input, to prevent the wildly changing voltages present in an EV
from resetting the meter. This filter is a 1000uF capacitor between the
Link 10's DC+ (pin 5) and DC- (pin 1) inputs, and a 1N4001 diode and 2.2
ohm 1/4w resistor in series with the DC+ input.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
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On Sat, 2003-03-15 at 19:03, Dean Thompson wrote:
> Hello Joe,
>
> > The first thing that jumped out at me when I saw the pictures was "the
> tires
> > are too small". Your experience seems to bear that out.
>
> Yes, we've know from the start that those wheels wouldn't be any good. They
> are left over from when the cart was a low speed vehicle. Any suggestions on
> some better wheels? I'll have to see if you can get proper go-kart tyres
> with that size OD (12").
Try some ATV tires.
Lonnie
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Li-Ion batteries will win out in the end. There is just no arguing with 4
volts per cell.
These batteries contain no expensive materials. They only contain trace
amounts of Lithium (they are Li-ION batteries, not lithium batteries.) The
fire problems are slowly being addressed and conquered. Probably the only
thing that will keep them just a bit pricey is the fact that you must have
some sort of BMS to prevent over and under charging. They also must be kept
sealed and they must be assembled in an inter atmosphere.
One of the reason they have been prone to fire is that they have so much
energy in such a lightweight package. When you short a lead-acid battery,
the stored energy goes into heating the battery. Because it has such a poor
specific energy (25 to 30 w-hr/kg) the battery melts, but typically does
not get hot enough to burn. With Li-Ion, there is as much as eight times as
much stored energy per kg. They are going to get plenty hot when you short
one out. It is an unavoidable consequence of the superior performance.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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