EV Digest 2652
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 9 inch at high rpm
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Golfcart front bearing rebuild. Tire replacement.
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) What Now?
by "Tom Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Golfcart front bearing rebuild. Tire replacement. Don't forget the
differential.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What Now?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Wicked Watts, NEDRA season opener
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Magnecharger power requirements...
by "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: What Now?
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: What Now?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ampabout
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Future of LiIon
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What Now?
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Future of LiIon
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: ampabout
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Magnecharger power requirements...
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Electric Supra?
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Rode a Segway HT Yesterday
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: ampabout
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Future of LiIon
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I just wanted to compliment you on using the term: "the motors go to
sleep up there at 120". I really like this kind of terminology as it
does well to get the point across at just how a series wound motor
behaves. Going to sleep is a very good analogy! This will help people
to understand over voltage as some people do in drag racing. If you
are running 336 volts on a 96 volt motor it is trying to equalize
back EMF and of corse it can never do that because the point at which
it could is a point at which the RPM would fly the com bars right out
of it. I know from personal experience that this is possible as I was
following my partner Bob who was driving the "Maniac Mazda" and he
missed a shift. I saw a great deal of debris hit the pavement. At 336
volts the 9 inch was trying to spin to well over twenty thousand RPMs
but at around twelve it let go and scattered com bars all over the
pavement. When the motor is trying to reach back EMF it "tries
harder". In other words it draws amps (torque) over a broader range
thus flattening out the torque curve and of course it feels just
wonderful!
Roderick
Martin Jackson wrote:
Hi Rich & Alain;
I Wrote:
> More importantly, I've been looking at the 9 inch ADC motor data from
> various sources and have a caution. Above 5000 rpm, the internal
> fan becomes less effective. When I know more, I'll write something
> better. In the meantime, watch motor temperature at high rpm combined
> with high Amps. With the fan flowing less, the motor will heat up
> faster at constant Amps. Good luck with your move.
Rich wrote:
"This is NOT a issue. The fan takes more HP to spin at high rpms, but the
Fan does move LOTS of air up there.
centrifugal fans take more HP as a square of the tip rpm. But that's ok
for cooling!!!"
The power taken by the fan drops severely above 120 V and 5000 rpm
according to test data I believe was provided by ADC. That data shows
an increase in efficiency to 95 % which is not otherwise explicable.
The source was a curve I got from the web somewhere (wish I knew
where) that is larger, but the same as fig. 7-8, p. 185 in Brants
'Build Your Own Electric Vehicle'. If you look at the 120 V line, the
speed jumps up such that the line isn't in the same family as the
others.
The test data is the product of a standard test procedure that I don't
have access to, but which does demonstrate variability in efficiency
suggesting data was taken both cold (loading) and hot (unloading).
I have generated equations for the loss (1 - efficiency) and the
fan is apparently in stall at this point. This wouldn't affect a small
car, but might be noticeable in a truck cruising at 5000 rpm for a
long time. This can be explained in part by the need for the motor to
be able to turn in both directions and it is not optimized for best
stall performance. My analysis isn't finished and checked, so I am
only urging caution.
______________________________________________________________________
Martin you are a very good detail guy.
This aberation is a moot point. Running at 5k all day is not going to
happen at 120 V.
The Back EMF curves at 120VDC says you won't be making any useable
amounts of torque that high. The motors go to sleep up there at 120.
It's debatable that you could generate enough heat to get in trouble.
This all changes with higher voltages and lower RPM of course.
As these next number show, it's not even debatable.
Also I have NEVER seen a AvDC motor chart that goes over %90 eff at any
load or speed. If just don't work that way. Even ACP sine wave drives
don't get over %94 .
Lets add some data shall we??
AvDC cold Perf motor Charcteristics Revised 9-17-91 G.D, as I recall
Gary Diederhoff...Mr. AvDC at the time
FB1-4001 9" CCW rot Fan cooled.
Peak Eff is at 4300rpm from 25 ft/lbs to 40. 150 to 250 amps. Eff peak
is VERY broad, going over %83 at 14 lbs and not under until 80 ft/lbs.
or 100 amp to 425 amps.
But at 120 VDC and 5000 rpm, this motor can only generate 28 ft/lbs of
torque. This correspondes to 180 amps. Wich is within the continuous
rating of this motor.
So Like I said, not a issue.
I would run this motor at this high speed to COOL it down. As I do on
the return run from Drag racing my 8 incher in Goldie. I have the Rev
limit set to 5500 and I just leave it in first and pegged.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are you sure you want narrow tires? Does your cart have springs or
does it depend on its big soft tires to smooth out the bumps?
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: Golfcart front bearing rebuild. Tire replacement.
> I have heard that trailer tires and wheels are the same bolt pattern. A 5
> bolt is a 5 bolt that is. I could change to a narrower tire that way. I
> suspect I don't need such a wide tire. Might help top speed a bit and
> certainly better range. Lawrence Rhodes.....
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 1:09 AM
> Subject: Re: Golfcart front bearing rebuild. Tire replacement.
>
>
> > Finding a tire will be no problem. 18X9.50-8 might be hard to find
> > but the slightly narrower 18X8.50-8 is a standard golf cart size and
also
> > used on garden tractors.
> >
> > Tom Shay
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:18 AM
> > Subject: Golfcart front bearing rebuild. Tire replacement.
> >
> >
> > > The Laher cart has an axle. Two bolts. Two tapered roller bearings.
> > Some
> > > spacers. Two races. Two pressure fittings to hold in the bearings in
> and
> > > act as dust caps. 5 bolt 18 inch tires. Very wide. I am not quit
sure
> > how
> > > to adjust the bearings. It seems that tapping the dust cap down
untill
> > the
> > > play stops might be the way. The fork just has two tubular holes to
put
> > the
> > > axle thru. It rolled easily but one of the bearings is trashed and
> making
> > a
> > > thumping noise so I figure it could be better. Anybody point me in
the
> > > right direction for assistance? I know where to get the bearings.
> > > Adjustment is the problem. The wheel is 9 1/4 inch in diameter. 5 bo
lt
> > > pattern. 18 X9.50 - 8. Very wide. Two ply rated. Might a narrower
> > trailer
> > > tire work. They are Carlisle ribbed & the back are Turfsavers.
> > Lawrence
> > > Rhodes.....
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy All:
Well, we just spent the 1500 for a new pack of Trojans. ( 24 = T 124s 144v )
Had them installed Friday, picked up the truck after work late Friday night
made it about three miles and it died dead. Mama had to push me home, boy
was she unhappy. In the light of day I found the trouble; the install job
left the cables un-cleaned and loose, lucky it only melted one post. The
battery shop replaced it and I corrected the cable issue. I charged the pack
Saturday morning and the truck ran great Saturday and Sunday. We took
several short trips around town to give the batteries a chance to start
settling in.
I was looking forward to driving the truck to work Monday morning, so this
evening 'Sunday' I plugged in the system I have for charging,( boost
transformer through 100ft extension cord to a pure Bad Boy ) I've been using
this for a long time now and it has worked great. Saturday morning it worked
perfectly also.... BUT Tonight I plugged it up and the amps were higher
than normal on the E-meter, even with the extension cord it was close to 30
amps. After a while the amps dropped to near 20 so I tried to remove the
extension cord and the amps went over 30 and the breaker left town. The pack
voltage was reading 157.5 and try as I might I could not get it to go up
without popping the breaker.
I rechecked the cables, I rechecked the input power and it was also at
157.5. Is this a coincidence? I have never had a problem getting the pack to
charge right on up to 185v.That is where the course power runs out and
serves to stabilize the pack. I have been doing it for a long time now and
never had any trouble.
SO!!!!! Why now does the voltage stop at 157? Why now are the amps so
high?
As usual I have no clue, So I turn to the wisdom of the list..
All help gratefully accepted.
Thanks
Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My background is in motorcycles and vintage Bugs. Typically, the axle is
drilled twice for cotter keys 90 degrees apart. If a castelated
(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mjvanvoorhis/T520.htm) nut is
used, there are 12 positions per turn of the nut where a cotter key can be
inserted to hold the nut in place.
The spacer is critical to making the assembly survive. The outer diameter
fits the seal that keeps water and dirt out. The inner diameter must fit
snugly on the axle so it does not wobble during turns. The length of the
spacer needs to keep the fork from touching anything except the spacer and
axle. Make one if you can't find one. Make sure it has a smooth finish on
the outside so it does not tear up the seal.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Golfcart front bearing rebuild. Tire replacement. Don't forget
the differential.
> Cotter keys? Oh man. This baby needs some attention. The axle just had
> two nuts. One on each side. I need to drill two holes in the axle and
get
> some cotter bolts.(is that what they are called?) Loosing an axle isn't
> fun. Next step. Checking out the differential. What oil(synthetic I
> hope)to put in a 60's vintage cart differential. Lawrence
Rhodes..........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:39 AM
> Subject: Re: Golfcart front bearing rebuild. Tire replacement.
>
>
> > Jack the front end up.
> > Loosen the axle nuts a couple turns each.
> > Spin the tire by hand.
> > Tighten nuts a little bit at a time until it spins down slightly slower
> than
> > with the nuts loose. (this indicates the onset of binding)
> > Back off about 1/12 turn on each axle nut.
> > If lash is OK, install the cotter keys.
> > Remove jack.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 12:18 AM
> > Subject: Golfcart front bearing rebuild. Tire replacement.
> >
> >
> > > I am not quit sure how
> > > to adjust the bearings. It seems that tapping the dust cap down
untill
> > the
> > > play stops might be the way. The fork just has two tubular holes to
put
> > the
> > > axle thru. It rolled easily but one of the bearings is trashed and
> making
> > a
> > > thumping noise so I figure it could be better. Anybody point me in
the
> > > right direction for assistance? I know where to get the bearings.
> > > Adjustment is the problem.
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The grid voltage might be higher tonight.
Using the extension cord longer will probably solve the problem.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:29 PM
Subject: What Now?
> Howdy All:
>
> Well, we just spent the 1500 for a new pack of Trojans. ( 24 = T 124s
144v )
> Had them installed Friday, picked up the truck after work late Friday
night
> made it about three miles and it died dead. Mama had to push me home, boy
> was she unhappy. In the light of day I found the trouble; the install job
> left the cables un-cleaned and loose, lucky it only melted one post. The
> battery shop replaced it and I corrected the cable issue. I charged the
pack
> Saturday morning and the truck ran great Saturday and Sunday. We took
> several short trips around town to give the batteries a chance to start
> settling in.
> I was looking forward to driving the truck to work Monday morning, so this
> evening 'Sunday' I plugged in the system I have for charging,( boost
> transformer through 100ft extension cord to a pure Bad Boy ) I've been
using
> this for a long time now and it has worked great. Saturday morning it
worked
> perfectly also.... BUT Tonight I plugged it up and the amps were higher
> than normal on the E-meter, even with the extension cord it was close to
30
> amps. After a while the amps dropped to near 20 so I tried to remove the
> extension cord and the amps went over 30 and the breaker left town. The
pack
> voltage was reading 157.5 and try as I might I could not get it to go up
> without popping the breaker.
> I rechecked the cables, I rechecked the input power and it was also at
> 157.5. Is this a coincidence? I have never had a problem getting the pack
to
> charge right on up to 185v.That is where the course power runs out and
> serves to stabilize the pack. I have been doing it for a long time now and
> never had any trouble.
> SO!!!!! Why now does the voltage stop at 157? Why now are the amps so
> high?
>
> As usual I have no clue, So I turn to the wisdom of the list..
> All help gratefully accepted.
> Thanks
> Tom
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
The NEDRA season opener will be held on Saturday April 26, 2003 at the
Las Vegas Motor speedway, http://www.lvms.com/ Racing begins at noon and
ends about 4:00 pm on Saturday, there will be a "test and tune" on Friday
night from 5:30 pm to 9:30 pm for the people that need a few test runs.
This years list of participants is growing,
Brigham Young University (BYU) will be there with a EV-1, factory motor
with their custom built controller running on super capacitors and a pit
crew of 15 engineering students, make your travel plans now this is a must
see EVent.
Dennis KILL A WATT Berube, "Current Eliminator V" will be running a new
battery pack, could there be a new record for The WORLD'S QUICKEST Electric
Vehicle? we will see.
http://currenteliminator.net/
Bill Dube', KillaCycle, World's Quickest Electric Motorcycle, we haven't
heard much from him this winter so he has had a lot of time to work on the
bike, he might have some surprises for us this year.
http://www.killacycle.com/
Roderick Wilde, EVParts.com, he is trying to put something together for
this race, he doesn't want to come empty handed this year. Roderick, you
know that they rent NEV on the strip, we could have a trailer waiting with
some optima's?....no. no. no. bad idea ;-)
www.evparts.com
Shawn Lawless at HDT from Ohio will be coming, but he doesn't think his
electric dragster "Orange Juice" will be ready in time for this years EVent.
http://www.paradefloats.com/pages/new.html
William Kuehl, Pontiac Fiero 1985 192 volts
http://www.lveva.org/
Richard Furniss, EX-7, 192v
http://www.lveva.org/
These are people that are expected to come but haven't confirmed yet.
Bruce Meland, Electrifying Times, Kawashocki II Motorcycle
http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/
Henry Deaton, "DV8R"
Otmar, "CA POP E "
Rich Brown, "Dualin' 7"
Chip Gribben, Power of DC,
The after race dinner will be at "Rookie's bar & grill" which is located in
the Speedway Casino (I-15 and exit 46) at 6 pm. Saturday night. Phone
702-399-3297.
Accommodations
Motel's close to the track
Speedway Casino $69.00, 702-399-3297
Favorite, lots of parking, big restaurant, on I-15 exit 46 and the track
is exit 54.
Best inn & suites $ 99.00, 702-632-0229
New building with lots of trailer parking
Super 8 Motel $49.99, 702-644-5666
older building and very little room for parking, has Blueberry Hill
restaurant in parking lot.
More Lodging:
http://leisure.travelocity.com/Promotions/0,,TRAVELOCITY|657,00.html
Or you can go to http://www.lasvegas.com/ to find rooms on the strip.
Map of the Las Vegas Motor Speedway area
http://66.209.67.5/Schedules/2002/Events/nascar_traffic.gif
This link is the visitors guide for the race track.
http://www.lvms.com/visitor_guide/
The Las Vegas Motor Speedway http://www.lvms.com/
NEDRA http://www.nedra.com/
I will be posting new information as I get it,
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It works on my 240V, 30A dryer outlet.
Ed Ang
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 2:13 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Magnecharger power requirements...
>
>
> Thought I'd try hooking up my MagneCharger to the Prizm this weekend.
> Yesterday I wired a quick 20amp 220 volt service up, plugged in
> the MC, and
> plugged it into the fully charged Prizm.
>
> Fired right up, charged the batteries at 7amps for an hour, then
> shut down.
> Good.
>
> Today I took the car for a quick ride (6 amp hours), then plugged
> it in and
> watched the Link-10
>
> 340 volts at 5,8,10,15,20 amps! Then the breaker popped. 20 amps at 240
> volts is about 6,800 watts.
>
> Well now...
>
> Just how big a circuit does a MagneCharger *need*? 40 amps? 45?
>
> If this thing can charge at >6,000 watts, then wow: I can take
> the car from
> empty to full in about 2 hours. How big can Magnechargers be?
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Something's wrong with the batteries. Find out why your
voltage is too low before you drive it again and before you try charging
again. I'd check the voltage of each battery. Check that none of the
batteries are connected up backwards. If I were a gambling sort I'd
bet that the klutz who didn't check that all connections were clean and
tight also didn't check that the batteries were connected correctly.
Why are you charging your new $1500 set of batteries without a good
battery charger? Splurge about $1500 more for a good charger system.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:29 PM
Subject: What Now?
> Howdy All:
>
> Well, we just spent the 1500 for a new pack of Trojans. ( 24 = T 124s
144v )
> Had them installed Friday, picked up the truck after work late Friday
night
> made it about three miles and it died dead. Mama had to push me home, boy
> was she unhappy. In the light of day I found the trouble; the install job
> left the cables un-cleaned and loose, lucky it only melted one post. The
> battery shop replaced it and I corrected the cable issue. I charged the
pack
> Saturday morning and the truck ran great Saturday and Sunday. We took
> several short trips around town to give the batteries a chance to start
> settling in.
> I was looking forward to driving the truck to work Monday morning, so this
> evening 'Sunday' I plugged in the system I have for charging,( boost
> transformer through 100ft extension cord to a pure Bad Boy ) I've been
using
> this for a long time now and it has worked great. Saturday morning it
worked
> perfectly also.... BUT Tonight I plugged it up and the amps were higher
> than normal on the E-meter, even with the extension cord it was close to
30
> amps. After a while the amps dropped to near 20 so I tried to remove the
> extension cord and the amps went over 30 and the breaker left town. The
pack
> voltage was reading 157.5 and try as I might I could not get it to go up
> without popping the breaker.
> I rechecked the cables, I rechecked the input power and it was also at
> 157.5. Is this a coincidence? I have never had a problem getting the pack
to
> charge right on up to 185v.That is where the course power runs out and
> serves to stabilize the pack. I have been doing it for a long time now and
> never had any trouble.
> SO!!!!! Why now does the voltage stop at 157? Why now are the amps so
> high?
>
> As usual I have no clue, So I turn to the wisdom of the list..
> All help gratefully accepted.
> Thanks
> Tom
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the voltage was correct during his test run, then the batteries were
installed with the correct polarity.
If the pack voltage was low during the test run, then I would suspect a
reversed battery. I would also expect the backwards installed battery to be
fatally damaged by then end of the test run.
I concur that you need to check the voltages of the batteries during charge.
Something is not right and you need to find it before something more
expensive goes wrong.
How many months did the last pack survive the Bad Boy Charger?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: What Now?
> Something's wrong with the batteries. Find out why your
> voltage is too low before you drive it again and before you try charging
> again. I'd check the voltage of each battery. Check that none of the
> batteries are connected up backwards. If I were a gambling sort I'd
> bet that the klutz who didn't check that all connections were clean and
> tight also didn't check that the batteries were connected correctly.
>
> Why are you charging your new $1500 set of batteries without a good
> battery charger? Splurge about $1500 more for a good charger system.
>
> Tom Shay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 8:29 PM
> Subject: What Now?
>
>
> > Howdy All:
> >
> > Well, we just spent the 1500 for a new pack of Trojans. ( 24 = T 124s
> 144v )
> > Had them installed Friday, picked up the truck after work late Friday
> night
> > made it about three miles and it died dead. Mama had to push me home,
boy
> > was she unhappy. In the light of day I found the trouble; the install
job
> > left the cables un-cleaned and loose, lucky it only melted one post. The
> > battery shop replaced it and I corrected the cable issue. I charged the
> pack
> > Saturday morning and the truck ran great Saturday and Sunday. We took
> > several short trips around town to give the batteries a chance to start
> > settling in.
> > I was looking forward to driving the truck to work Monday morning, so
this
> > evening 'Sunday' I plugged in the system I have for charging,( boost
> > transformer through 100ft extension cord to a pure Bad Boy ) I've been
> using
> > this for a long time now and it has worked great. Saturday morning it
> worked
> > perfectly also.... BUT Tonight I plugged it up and the amps were
higher
> > than normal on the E-meter, even with the extension cord it was close to
> 30
> > amps. After a while the amps dropped to near 20 so I tried to remove the
> > extension cord and the amps went over 30 and the breaker left town. The
> pack
> > voltage was reading 157.5 and try as I might I could not get it to go up
> > without popping the breaker.
> > I rechecked the cables, I rechecked the input power and it was also at
> > 157.5. Is this a coincidence? I have never had a problem getting the
pack
> to
> > charge right on up to 185v.That is where the course power runs out and
> > serves to stabilize the pack. I have been doing it for a long time now
and
> > never had any trouble.
> > SO!!!!! Why now does the voltage stop at 157? Why now are the amps so
> > high?
> >
> > As usual I have no clue, So I turn to the wisdom of the list..
> > All help gratefully accepted.
> > Thanks
> > Tom
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While recent rains kept me indoors, my pack enjoyed a
full charge, and my replacement batteries were
delivered.
Today, the rain let up, although I was anxious to replace
the four weaker batteries, I wanted to get some items done
first, in preparation of a relocation. If I replace them
now, I won;t have my full range until I break them in.
I made a round trip to Cupertino and back via Hwy 101
South, Hwy 85 and then returned using the same route. I
was 50 ahrs down as I got back on Hwy 85. This would be
OK, because it was downhill on Hwy 85 from Cupertino
(I would use less amp hours going while going downhill).
Perhaps its me, but something is different about people
following me. Maybe it is the times, with the protests,
and the looming war, but people are following me for a
long period of time.
I usually drive at 55 mph. That in itself is enough to
make an SUV driver work to holding their beast back,
which tick them off. I know they're ticked, because I
usually get a race up to my rear bumper, do a fast
swerve to pass (on either side, lane or not), a fast
cut back so close as to have an accident if they make
a mistake, and I get a horn and/or a flying eagle
(flipping me the bird).
But, people have been just following me, keeping the
same speed. I don't have the sticker that says
"American Electrons (maybe I should). Are they doing
this out of respect? Gas prices aren;t enough to make
them change.
Evenutally, the traffic changes and after 5 miles (that
is a long time for them) they gently change lanes,
smoothly accellerate by (there is a differance between
pass in road rage, and the way they are now doing it).
This started happening a week ago, and seems to be
happening more as the days pass. But they are the
minority. The majority 'own the road' and I am
trespassing.
I got back North on Hwy 101 almost to my exit reading
79 ahs down. I decided to make one more errand. I
stopped off at the San Carlos Home Depot (a chain
stores that sells hardware). When I parked my emeter
leds had changed to yellow and I was down -86 ahs
(way close to empty, with weaker batteries).
I had applied at that store and was anxious to work
there. They offer more than Frys Electronics store at
minimum wage, and the work will be a varying challenge
(keeps it interesting). The hr rep was not there, but
I talked to an employee. I got a guy who had worked
there for two years and was also a former hi-tech
person who also had the bottom fail out of their
market (he was laid off after 911 from a telecom
company). I left feeling that I need give the process
more time, yet do let them know I am interested and
willing to relocate to another store.
Heading home, I changed my driving style. Now I was in
conservation mode. When my pack is this depleted, I might
still have the ahs to go another ~10 miles, but my surface
voltage is much lower, so second gear is now first, etc.
I shift up gently, and try to hold my speed steady, while
trying not to be in the way of the speeding traffic.
The long flat road I took ironically is named Veterans
Blvd, and even the muscle car behind me did not mind my
slow acceleration up to speed. I purposely changed lanes
to let him pass, but he did not race off in anger as
they usually do. The price of gas has not slowed that
activity, so it must be something else.
I chose not to climb any over passes, and kept my speed
steady. When I see a red light, I coast. At 5000 lbs, I
have a lot of stored energy. Gently slowing way before
I 'have to stop' banks the saved energy, and can usually
catch the green light at 5 mph (this saves me having to
start from a dead stop).
At home, I plugged my PFC-50 in, and dialed in a 10 amp
current flow into my pack. The PFC-50 will do a full
charge on my pack overnight on WA/OR/Canadian hydro-
electrons and do a finishing charge to balance the pack.
I was pleased to feel that the breaker feeding my charger
was less warm than when I charge with my Zivan K2. The K2
wastes more power as heat than my PFC-50, and is harder
on plugs, outlets, cords, and breakers.
Just another reason a PFC charger is worth the cost. Overall
you just get more with a PFC charger.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Momentary brown outs like high current draws can be survived with a
> large 5 rail cap, and a diode.
> the current Mk3 I agree, and should be across 3 or 4 Lion cells.
> a version of the Mk2 can run that low, but the Opamps go from 38 cent
> each to 2.50 each.
>
> The conceptual MK4 will have multi cell capability. Right now 8 cells
> for EverCell uses is as far as we have gotten. This won't be a cheap
> Reg...
> The Mk3 have to be stable and in production making a profit before I
> start sinking R&D bucks into the MK4.
Um, since you haven't sunk one R&D buck into the mk3 that I know of, I don't
know why you're worried about this.
;-)
S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thomas is right.
Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.
If your EV needed a new pack, and a better
charger, you need to invest in both now to
not lose the investment you made in the pack.
Improper charging can lose your $1500.
By the way $1500 is cheap. If you do it right,
you won't have to spend that money again for
3 years. $500 a year is cheap. Just unplug
and go.
Work with the EV List members, give them your
battery readings, pack voltage, battery type,
charge current amps, and how long you charge
to help you resolve this and not kill your
new pack. Remember you have to break in a pack
much like you would break in a new ICE ...
gently.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
>
> > Momentary brown outs like high current draws can be survived with a
> > large 5 rail cap, and a diode.
> > the current Mk3 I agree, and should be across 3 or 4 Lion cells.
> > a version of the Mk2 can run that low, but the Opamps go from 38 cent
> > each to 2.50 each.
> >
> > The conceptual MK4 will have multi cell capability. Right now 8 cells
> > for EverCell uses is as far as we have gotten. This won't be a cheap
> > Reg...
> > The Mk3 have to be stable and in production making a profit before I
> > start sinking R&D bucks into the MK4.
>
> Um, since you haven't sunk one R&D buck into the mk3 that I know of, I don't
> know why you're worried about this.
>
> ;-)
>
> S.
Ummm Sheer, I have not been handed a sample that meets my specs yet
either, I know they live... but they don't do the basic items.
I also don't want you heading off to the Mk4 until I have a Mk3, lets
keep the blinders on until the we catch the first rabbit.
Lets see no running Sch
No running proto,
No costs... it's like I havn't started yet.
Worried is the few grand it's going to take to get unit one out the
door, and have both of us happy. Then it's support for you and
production for me. This is where I get my butt kicked. And the
enevidable Service and repair.
I wanna see 24 channels of MB100s on a test bench. I want your gear and
mine to basicly say the same thing. I can't get much motion out of Ecar
this weekend. Then again Bob has to sleep some time...
Yer aloud to keep me up to date while I am in morning... or sitting at
airports hoping the eye Rackies don't pick this week to gas the east
coast or borrow some Boeings again. Charging towel heads with AK-47s or
sharp knitting needles, ain't my kinda fun.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
>
>
> At home, I plugged my PFC-50 in, and dialed in a 10 amp
> current flow into my pack. The PFC-50 will do a full
> charge on my pack overnight on WA/OR/Canadian hydro-
> electrons and do a finishing charge to balance the pack.
>
> I was pleased to feel that the breaker feeding my charger
> was less warm than when I charge with my Zivan K2. The K2
> wastes more power as heat than my PFC-50, and is harder
> on plugs, outlets, cords, and breakers.
>
> Just another reason a PFC charger is worth the cost. Overall
> you just get more with a PFC charger.
>
Hang in there Bruce.... we are all pulling for you, and thanks for the
good Plug.
It looks like I got a 5 to 10 order week last week. The WAve is here.
I am out of the loop for a East Coast funeral this week.
But thanks again.
With about 52 weeks like the last, I will need a server geek just like
you.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Then the breaker popped.
>20 amps at 240 volts is about 6,800 watts.
<It works on my 240V, 30A dryer outlet.
Electrical code keeps you from getting the rated amperage.
Its like a giant size box of Tide, when you open the
box, you find its 20% air.
A 20 amp breaker is only supposed to be loaded to 80% of
its rating.
So you really can only get
16 amps from a 20 amp breaker,
24 amps from a 30 amp breaker, and
32 amps from a 40 amp breaker.
Ed, runs his inductive off a 30 amp, and says its 240VAC.
24 amps x 240 VAC = 5760 watts can be safely drawn from
his 30 amp dryer outlet.
16 amps x 240 VAC = 3840 watts is all you can safely
draw from your 20 amp outlet.
Yea, sure you have push it (like over-clocking a PC), but
you are only finding the tolerance of that breaker
before it heats and trips.
Upgrade to 30 amps and you should be OK.
The wiring should be 10 gauge, replace the dual breaker
(a ganged breaker - one for each hot), and use at least
a 30 amp outlet.
If this charger is to be carried with you, you ought to
consider choosing a plug and outlet like you would find
in the public.
If you plan to charge a RV parks, use a 14-50.
If you plan to mooch off friends, then have an adaptor
for the various dryer outlet types they have.
Me I stick to the 14-50: cheap long lasting, easy to use,
and has a good track record.
The EV1-Club people would be a better source of
information, they have done all this already and have all
the answers.
The magnecharge does not put out as much on lower AC
voltages. That is why the EVnews charging site also lists
the source voltage for each charging site. Some EV1 drivers
line up their charging route as to get as much 240VAC as
they can and avoid the common 208VAC sites (208VAC is a
slower charge than 240VAC).
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
http://webhosting.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Richard,
It sounds like you are already convinced that it is a good (evil?) idea.
Go for it I say.
The world needs more monster EVs :-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Bebbington [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 17 March 2003 5:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Electric Supra?
Hi Listers,
A friend of mine is selling his 1990 Toyota Supra
cheap, supposedly because he needs the room for his
other toy, a vicious snarling Nissan Pulsar.
Personally I think he's crazy to be selling it, but
he is, and here's where my evil mind starts plotting....
This car has mint condition bodywork, but has overheating
problems. It can idle all day in the driveway, but as soon as
it gets driven, it overheats. The car has suffered from the
dreaded head-gasket failure, and that has been repaired,
( very expensive! :-O ) but still has problems.
I'm starting to wonder about converting it -
- using something like twin 8 or 9 inch motors,
24 odd Optimas and a Zilla.... this way, there would
still be 300 HP of fun available, just electric fun
rather than noisy smelly ICE fun!
The car's rear-wheel drive, with automatic box,
and has acres of room under the hood. So much
of the conversion would be pretty standard stuff,
apart from the auto box ( remove the torque converter? )
Is this even a remotely sensible idea? Or is it
just plain evil? ;-)
If I did do this, it'd make a great commuting car,
and would probably last a lot longer than an electric
Mini ( rust-wise )...
Hmmm....
Richard Bebbington
Electric Mini pickup
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All
Thanks to an early adopter here in Seattle who really loves his machine and
wants to show it to everyone, I had the opportunity to spend some time
aboard and get an idea of what it was like.
Phillip Torrone brought his Segway HT to our SEVA meeting Tuesday night and
it was a great hit, this guy makes a great presentation!
See Phillip�s website: http://www.bookofseg.com
There wasn�t enough time at the meeting to give all the folks a chance to
try it though Steve Lough did get aboard for a few minutes.
Phillip was interested in info to fend off the �aren�t you just moving the
pollution around?� people.
I provided him the links to Chip Gribben�s great paper:
Debunking the Myths of EVs and Smokestacks...
PDF version:
http://www.evadc.org/pwrplnt.pdf
HTML version:
http://www.princeton.edu/~bcjones/transportation/ev/myths.html
Phillip offered me a chance to try the Segway HT on Saturday at Gas Works
Park here in Seattle. My friend Mark with Electric Scooter Magazine was
hangin� around and I took him along.
It was a beautiful day in Seattle, (sunny, no rain!).
We ended up spending about two hours in the main parking lot at the park
trying out the HT and answering a never-ending flow of people who approached
us showing much interest in the machine. (and taking pictures for Electric
Scooter Magazine, http://www.electricscootermag.com :^) Almost every car
that came through stopped and rubbernecked for a few minutes. This thing
really draws a crowd!
Two words, �magic carpet�, this seems to be most folks take on it.
After about 1 minute aboard, I was balancing with no problem, super easy!
Taking Phillip�s advice to just look straight ahead and not look down made
it real simple.
Within a couple of minutes, I could do hard accelerations, braking, and
turning. (Machine was set in the �demo� mode)
It does actually feel like it is anticipating your next move.
An absolutely incredible piece of technology!
Incredible regen! The regen is the brakes. (I am not sure how any excess
energy may be handled) Phillip takes it up and over Queen Anne hill here
every day (an 18% grade) and recovers most of his energy expended going up
while descending the other side.
Super quality and excellent execution of design is evident everywhere you
look.
Like everyone else who tries it�.. Now I want one!
By the end of March, many more Segways will be delivered around the country.
I saw 5 on Ebay last night. These sellers are, of course, looking for folks
to pay a premium to be the first on their block to have one.
Phillip and his wife have sold one of their cars and are saving about
$600.00 a month in car expenses.
Lots of good info and videos at:
http://www.bookofseg.com
Roy LeMeur Seattle WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I love it when you can set the fire hose to the "Sip" setting. Your breaker
likes it too.
Thanks for the report.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2003 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: ampabout
> At home, I plugged my PFC-50 in, and dialed in a 10 amp
> current flow into my pack. The PFC-50 will do a full
> charge on my pack overnight on WA/OR/Canadian hydro-
> electrons and do a finishing charge to balance the pack.
>
> I was pleased to feel that the breaker feeding my charger
> was less warm than when I charge with my Zivan K2. The K2
> wastes more power as heat than my PFC-50, and is harder
> on plugs, outlets, cords, and breakers.
>
> Just another reason a PFC charger is worth the cost. Overall
> you just get more with a PFC charger.
> =====
> ' ____
> ~/__|o\__
> '@----- @'---(=
> . http://geocities.com/brucedp/
> . EV List Editor & RE newswires
> . (originator of the above ASCII art)
> =====
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Jon "Sheer" Pullen wrote:
> >
> > > Momentary brown outs like high current draws can be survived with a
> > > large 5 rail cap, and a diode.
> > > the current Mk3 I agree, and should be across 3 or 4 Lion cells.
> > > a version of the Mk2 can run that low, but the Opamps go from 38 cent
> > > each to 2.50 each.
> > >
> > > The conceptual MK4 will have multi cell capability. Right now 8 cells
> > > for EverCell uses is as far as we have gotten. This won't be a cheap
> > > Reg...
> > > The Mk3 have to be stable and in production making a profit before I
> > > start sinking R&D bucks into the MK4.
> >
> > Um, since you haven't sunk one R&D buck into the mk3 that I know of, I don't
> > know why you're worried about this.
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > S.
> Ummm Sheer, I have not been handed a sample that meets my specs yet
> either, I know they live... but they don't do the basic items.
>
> I also don't want you heading off to the Mk4 until I have a Mk3, lets
> keep the blinders on until the we catch the first rabbit.
>
> Lets see no running Sch
> No running proto,
> No costs... it's like I havn't started yet.
>
> Worried is the few grand it's going to take to get unit one out the
> door, and have both of us happy. Then it's support for you and
> production for me. This is where I get my butt kicked. And the
> enevidable Service and repair.
>
> I wanna see 24 channels of MB100s on a test bench. I want your gear and
> mine to basicly say the same thing. I can't get much motion out of Ecar
> this weekend. Then again Bob has to sleep some time...
> Yer aloud to keep me up to date while I am in morning... or sitting at
> airports hoping the eye Rackies don't pick this week to gas the east
> coast or borrow some Boeings again. Charging towel heads with AK-47s or
> sharp knitting needles, ain't my kinda fun.
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
Ok apologies are required here... I could have sworn that this went to the EVtech
list.....
I don't need our friendly thrashing to be this public, and I don't need to offend
folks.
.
--- End Message ---
