EV Digest 2839
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: More on line calculations pages
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Vancouver, BC EV Show: Saturday, June 7th!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Unmodified worth more?
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: SIADIS Inverter software question-Window 98 problem?
by "Gary Graunke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Unmodified worth more?
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Electric Vehicles gather in Griffith Park. Some pics
by "Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Another over-priced EV on eBay
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Bringing Old Lead Back To Life
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Time for a new pack
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Re: Time for a new pack
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Iseta conversion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: More on line calculations pages
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) [EV1-Club] CA EV parking sticker 7/1, sneeky ICE
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) E-mower
by Ben Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Iseta conversion
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Time for a new pack
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Lectra Motorcycle and Zapworld
by "Christian Kocmick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Status of E-Cycle?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Status of E-Cycle?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Unmodified worth more?
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Lectra Motorcycle and Zapworld
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Iseta conversion
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Henney problem.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV Drag Bike
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: Status of E-Cycle?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) 6-14-03 Chico EAA meeting
by "Chuck Alldrin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Fwd: RE: PV Partners Contact Form
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: 6-14-03 Chico EAA meeting
by Carmen Farruggia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Circuit Evalutation request
by "Seth Dallob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Motor Brushes for Reliance? Oops,Was PV partners...
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Status of E-Cycle?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
How about power to weight ratios?
How about battery pack calculations and conversions?
cell/battery voltage, capacity * # of cells/batteries
expected or real max current, normal current,
apply putrid<sp> real world capacity out.
something...
Say, how about making the calculators log the input.
so that we can take a look at what people are inputting?
( I suppose since they are java and all browser side
this may not be so simple, perhaps a "submit" button )
I would like to see a public domain EV page chuck full of
all kinds of calculators. If "logging" is implamented then
it turns into a data gathering system so we can create some
real world statistics from real ev performances. ?!?
L8r
Ryan
James Jarrett wrote:
Hi all,
The success (and ok, I'll admit it, fun of making it) of the on line EV /
Gas comparisions page got me thinking.
Are there any other "complex" EV calculations that would be good to present
this way. I have a lot of "busywork" I have to do at my desk today and may
have some time to work on another project or two.
Suggestions?
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong, and an even bigger one to keep
his mouth shut when he's right. - Jim Fiebig
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
> > > Just a quick reminder to everyone that the annual EV show
> > > and ride event, REV!2003, is happening this Saturday,
> > > June 7th, in Vancouver, BC.
Regretfully, for the first time in, I think, 8 years, I won't be able to make it to my
favorite EV show of the year :-( Being the newbie at work and having only just past
my
90 day probation, I cannot take any time off, and I really need all day Friday to use
as
the travel day from Portland up to Vancouver. BC. Working hard Friday, then rushing
home
to take shower #2, then taking off pulling a trailer through late rush hour traffic to
travel 6-8 hours, including the additional hang ups with increased security at the
border
to arrive midnight-ish all exhausted, is not an option. I also have the additional
pressure of having my 90 day review following this weekend, early Monday morning, and I
don't want to be tired out, or worse yet, for some unforseen reason, stuck for a weird
security breach at the border and unable to get back in time.
Perhaps this time next year, armed with some vacation time and my new V8 subwoofer-4
motor-'Zilla equipped-electric minitruck, I can resume my annual trek. Besides, it's
always better to show up with something new :-)
I bet this year's EVent will be the one not to miss, too, what with great weather (I
still
remmber that 'one' show, where I expected Noah and his ark to show up) and multitudes
of
spectators showing up...oh well.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see a scooter on eBay with claims of a 70mph top speed sold for $500 less
than the same one in its original state - does that mean bidders didn't
believe the seller, or just didn't want altered goods?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, my neighbor mentioned that some old DOS programs don't like
to have more than 32M of XMS memory.
I'm using a 48M 90Mhz Pentium I laptop running DOS (or the W98 version
of it). When we used a program to just waste 16M of the ram, it worked just
fine. Prior to that, there were no diagnostics at all--just nothing when I
invoked siadis.exe. The utility may not be the answer when you have tons of
ram on a modern laptop--it only can waste 32M at a time.
It also worked fine on an old 386 with only 4M of ram.
I didn't do anything about the serial port, and have no idea what kind
it has.
Gary
=============================================
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Gary discovered one more reason for modern computers difficulties
talking to SIADIS - too much physical RAM. He has little utility
to waste some (you should have about 4M expandable RAM available
to SIADIS, perhaps not too much more. Simple way to get rid of
extra ram is to create dummy RAM disk of appropriate size
prior to running SIADIS.
This may or may not have anything to do with W98 truing to
run 2 instances of SIADIS. Cliff almost certainly
must try COM1 and COM2, nothing else.
HTH
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would not trust that it would survive for very long. I doubt the motor
or controller are really up to the loads they would be under. If it really
worked, they would not have sold it.
At 10:58 PM 6/5/2003, you wrote:
I see a scooter on eBay with claims of a 70mph top speed sold for $500 less
than the same one in its original state - does that mean bidders didn't
believe the seller, or just didn't want altered goods?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following message is forwarded to you by "Mark
Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>From: Doug Korthof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Electric Vehicles gather in Griffith Park. Some pics
Hi,
You can see some pics of the EV event at Griffith Park in
Los Angeles on
http://DrivingTheFuture.com/grifpark
You can comment on the pictures, new comments get added.
Feel free to add arguments or ideas.
A number of drivers signed on to the idea of resisting further
confiscations. If you have an EV and would like legal assistance in
retaining it, or if you just want to help out with the campaign to reverse
California's killing of the Zero Emission Vehiclem mandate, please just
email me back.
Perhaps it's just a dream, but we imagine somehow being
ABLE TO BUY AN EV ON THE OPEN
MARKET, WITHOUT TRICK or ARTIFICE.
All who have experienced the power and hostility of the big oil and auto
interests know of their seemingly illicit and apparently unethical tactics
to demean, put off, discourage and overcharge
the potential EV customer. Their anger at being forced to make EVs boils
over to animosity to us hapless drivers and would-be customers.
Doug
Some of the arguments, as I remember:
1) These cars are fun to drive (a surprising number of pilots like
the EV1, it reminded me of the effortless power of takeoff also) 2)
Electric cars challenge the oil companies
3) Also challenge the logistic-support model for profitable aftersales,
since they don't break down
4) GM was never serious about the program, they never had it set up
for mass production, they would have been baffled if more than
500 people wanted them -- just as Toyota cancelled the program
when their hand-build quota was sold. It wasn't the lack of demand,
it was there was too much demand
5) Electric car drivers challenge global warming and dependence on
foreign oil
6) EV1 are now being scrapped in a salvage yard, should be sold
X-warranty to willing buyers
Here is what Paul Scott wrote:
"...just got back from meeting with Peter Imber of ABC News at
Griffith Park in LA. There were 16 EV1s and about 10 Ravs, a Think
City and a conversion. We were asked to stand in a group in front
of the EV1s and respond independently to questions from reporter,
Bill (didn't catch his last name). It was a great feeling to be
able to tell the story in full to the national news. Bill asked
good questions and our responses were on the money.
"Peter says they will cut a 2-3 minute segment and it will run
either Saturday or Sunday. I believe the show is called ABC
World News Tonight, so watch for it.
"I want to express how valuable it is when a group of us gets together
to talk about EVs in front of the news like this. Our story is so
powerful because of its truth and the importance of what EVs mean
to our health and security. When you hear all these intelligent,
passionate people speak these truths all in one place, it really
makes an impact. Even though many of you will be losing your EV1s
over the next few months, we need your help to continue talking
about this issue whenever the opportunity arises. The problems
associated with driving ICE age cars will not go away, they will
only get worse, so the need for EVs will continue to grow..."
You can potentially join the RAV4 Email list (very high volume) at
http://www.e-farm.com/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
You are receiving this email as [EMAIL PROTECTED], 223 of 430
If you are not interested, or wish to be removed, please send the
following: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Or send any mail to <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> asking
to remove [EMAIL PROTECTED], number 223.
-----------------------------------------------------
-- End of forwarded message
-----------------------------------------------------
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-----------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[Here is the ebay seller's response]
-[edited]
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 07:42:14 -0500
From: "Bill Williams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question for seller -- Item #2417660823
Thanks for your advice. If I run the ad again,
I will put in better pictures.
Price stays same - will keep before I give away;
it is worth it.
Thanks,
Bill
-
=====
' ____
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The schematic is posted at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/BATTERY%20CYCLER%20SCHEMATIC.gif.
The file can be reached through the Manzanita micro download page at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm
Email me for the software. It is not on the website.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: Bringing Old Lead Back To Life
> The parts list is follows:
>
> -Big Charger (I use a Todd PC-40 with a voltage control pot)
> -Diode capable of passing big charger current (must be on a heat sink)
> -Little charger (any 5 amp unit is fine) (only used for equalization
> current)
> -> 24 ohm rheostat rated for little charger current (adjusts equalization
> current)(multiple 1157 bulbs are OK
> -Variable load (I use a 99 amp active load) (multiple car headlights are
OK)
> -Circuit breaker (I use a 75 amp manual reset circuit breaker)
> -2 contactors rated for charger current and load current (RV solenoids)
> -MSDOS box, 4 MHz minimum
> -emeter with shunt and fuses
> -12 to 24 volt fused power supply to run emeter and contactors
> -2 LEDs
> -2 NPN darlington transistors
> -2 resistors for the LEDs (to limit current to 20 mA at the power supply
> voltage)
> -2 free wheel diodes (1n4001)
> -DB9 cable from emeter to PC serial port
> -DB25 plug for PC parallel port
> -#6 wire for load carrying conductors (lower current can use lighter wire)
> -#20 wire for the rest of the connections
>
> If enough people are interested, I can post the schematic of the control
> panel, the electronic load and an executable version of the software.
>
> As far as cost goes, the only thing I had to buy was the emeter. The rest
of
> it was laying around the shop.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lesley Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 5:17 AM
> Subject: Re: Bringing Old Lead Back To Life
>
>
> > Joe Smalley wrote:
> > > I have an automated tester that controls these tests but I have to
> > > manually put the data into excel to see plots.
> >
> > Joe, I seem to remember that a few weeks ago you offered to make the
> > plans for your tester available to somebody if they wanted to build one
> > of their own. Is that offer available to others? If so, can you give a
> > rough idea of what components are needed and how much it might cost
> > to build? I'd like to do some proper testing for the Sunrace team if
it's
> > possible to do it on a low budget.
> >
> > --
> > Lesley Walker, Wellington, New Zealand
> > LRW at clear.net.nz
> > "Do you like cat?"
> > "Yes, I quite like cats."
> > "Leg or breast?"
> > Neverwhere, by Neil Gaiman
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The range on my Tropica has been consistantly getting better with the updated charger.
So much so that I've been putting off replacing the pack month after month. That ended
tonight. The other day I had noticed an arcing sound while charging and traced it down
to some crud forming around the rear most cell cap on the center front battery. I
thought I had solved the problem and was going to be pulling the pack to replace the
battery wattering system in 2 weeks. I'd give it a good cleaning at that time. I
didn't drive the car yesterday or today as my wife was picking me up at the office for
some after work plans. Tonight I plugged the car back in to get a charge for the
morning. Normally the last couple of volts go by pretty quickly and accelerate as it
gets closer to 87 volts where I switch to finish current. Tonight it was taking
longer. I thought that was odd but at 87 the charger made the switch and I went back
into the house. A couple of minutes later, BOOM! That couldn't!
have been the car. Could it? I went outside to the car and the smell said it all. I
unplugged the charger and removed the "hood" so I could see a couple of the batteries.
Two batteries no longer have tops. Well the tops are still there but there not
attached anymore. I'm assumming that arcing was not quite gone and I tried to combine
a bit of Hydrogen with some Oxygen that was laying around. Anyone else have a
different idea of what happened? I guess it's time for that new pack. I can't really
complain. This pack was at 2 volts when I got it last Sept and I've been driving it
since. Guess I'll need a ride to work tomorrow...
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
since you lost the tops of some batteries, you need
to clean up any electrolyte spray.
I would remove the all batteries and clean the racks
throughly.
Even if you did not see any spashed electrolyte, I
would clean with a mild base cleaner (windex type)
any and all surfaces that might have been sprayed.
You need to neutralize any electrolyte before it
gets a foot hold and damages your classic EV.
I would not drive your EV with these batteries.
Call Jim Ramos tomorrow for new US125 batteries to
be delivered to your home. Tell him you are an EAA
member and please drop my name, tell him I said hi.
Jim Ramos, American Battery
3488 Arden Road, Hayward CA 94545
(510) 259-1150 , Fax: (510) 259-1160
=====
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. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.futureenergies.com/article.php?sid=235 Very small two seater with
front door. Lawrence Rhodes.....
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, this is all doable. NONE of my code is java. I hate java (for
the reasons you mention and others) all my code is SERVER side php. So
logging is doable.
Tell you what, you send me off list (or on) a list of the calcualtions you
want made, and how to do them (I don't always know) and I'll put the pages
up.
James
PS We'll worry about logging later,
JJ
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
The superior man is distressed by the limitation of his ability; he is not
distressed by the fact that men do not recognize the ability he has. -
Confucius
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ryan Fulcher
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: More on line calculations pages
How about power to weight ratios?
How about battery pack calculations and conversions?
cell/battery voltage, capacity * # of cells/batteries
expected or real max current, normal current,
apply putrid<sp> real world capacity out.
something...
Say, how about making the calculators log the input.
so that we can take a look at what people are inputting?
( I suppose since they are java and all browser side
this may not be so simple, perhaps a "submit" button )
I would like to see a public domain EV page chuck full of
all kinds of calculators. If "logging" is implamented then
it turns into a data gathering system so we can create some
real world statistics from real ev performances. ?!?
L8r
Ryan
James Jarrett wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>The success (and ok, I'll admit it, fun of making it) of the on line EV /
>Gas comparisions page got me thinking.
>
>Are there any other "complex" EV calculations that would be good to present
>this way. I have a lot of "busywork" I have to do at my desk today and may
>have some time to work on another project or two.
>
>Suggestions?
>
>James
>
>James F. Jarrett
>Information Systems Associate
>Charlotte Country Day School
>(704)943-4562
>
>It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong, and an even bigger one to keep
>his mouth shut when he's right. - Jim Fiebig
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EV1-Club] CA EV parking sticker 7/1, sneeky ICE
-[edited]
From: "Tom Dowling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: CA DMV EV parking sticker
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:17:19 -0700
To: "'EV1 Club List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I have a sneak preview copy of the form for applying for the
new California EV parking sticker. The stickers are
supposed to be available around July 1, and I'm sure the
form will be on the DMV Web site soon. In the meantime, you
can see the form at
[ http://www.evchargernews.com/dmvreg4048.pdf ]
(Note that this is not an ATTBI address. The EVChargerNews
is moving off of ATTBI. Although the ATTBI address is still
functional for the time being, please use
[ http://www.evchargernews.com ] to access the EVChargerNews.)
The charge for the sticker is $17. It's available by mail
only, not at DMV offices. The mailing address, as shown on
the form, is
Department of Motor Vehicles, ZEV Parking Decal
Special Processing Unit, MS D-238
P.O. Box 932345
Sacramento, CA 94232-3450
Starting July 1, it will be possible to ticket and/or tow
vehicles without this sticker, so it's important that every
EV that intends to use public EV charging spaces in
California gets one of these stickers. The sticker goes on
the outside of the rear window (driver's side), or on the
rear bumper. I believe the fine is $100.
Tom Dowling
===
From: "Tom Dowling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Creative ICEing -- we DO need those stickers
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 09:57:19 -0700
To: "'EV1 Club List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Check this out for creative ICEing:
[ http://www.evchargernews.com/photos/ardenfairevnot.jpg ]
This car was recently spotted at Arden Fair mall in
Sacramento. No, it's NOT a conversion car with inductive
charging, and it's NOT a secret prototype of an upcoming EV.
It looks like this character is trying to fool the parking
lot patrol into thinking it's an EV.
We DO need those EV parking stickers, it seems.
Tom Dowling
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
http://calendar.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was a piece in the paper (Orange County Register) this
morning, about a good deal on electric mowers. According to
the article if you trade in a gas powered mower you can buy
a 449 dollar electric for 150. The trade-in starts at 7 a.m.
at Arrowhead Pond of Anaheim. Show up early; in the past,
the agency has run out of mowers by 8 a.m.
--
Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.
Ben Bennett
http://home.earthlink.net/~greyhawk200/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is one of the WORST! EV articles I've ever read. It says it was
submitted in May but not what year. If I didn't know better I would guess
around the mid 1800s. Where do these reporters get their education?
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-888-EV Parts (387-2787)
Phone: 360-385-7966 Fax: 360-385-7922
PO Box 221, 107 Louisa Street
Port Townsend, WA 98368
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:37 PM
Subject: Iseta conversion
> http://www.futureenergies.com/article.php?sid=235 Very small two seater
with
> front door. Lawrence Rhodes.....
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce,
Thanks for the comments. I washed down what I could get to last night but it really
need to come apart to do it correctly. Acid was definitly sprayed around. I will be
talking with Jim about a new pack. I talked to him a couple of months ago and then Don
saved me with a replacement battery. The car is definitly not drivable. Right now I
have 2 buckets of lead and acid with no tops! Move the car and the acid will just
slosh out! I am supprised I still have continuity in the pack howver. I guess I
didn't damage the inter-cell connections. I'll post some picture when I get it all
open. I really wanted to drive it to the SJ EAA meeting next weekend. Oh well.
Steve
In a message dated 6/6/2003 1:48:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, Bruce EVangel Parmenter
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Steve,
>
>since you lost the tops of some batteries, you need
>to clean up any electrolyte spray.
>
>I would remove the all batteries and clean the racks
>throughly.
>
>Even if you did not see any spashed electrolyte, I
>would clean with a mild base cleaner (windex type)
>any and all surfaces that might have been sprayed.
>
>You need to neutralize any electrolyte before it
>gets a foot hold and damages your classic EV.
>
>I would not drive your EV with these batteries.
>Call Jim Ramos tomorrow for new US125 batteries to
>be delivered to your home. Tell him you are an EAA
>member and please drop my name, tell him I said hi.
>
>Jim Ramos, American Battery
>3488 Arden Road, Hayward CA 94545
>(510) 259-1150 , Fax: (510) 259-1160
>
>
>
>=====
>' ____
>~/__|o\__
>'@----- @'---(=
>. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
>. EV List Editor & RE newswires
>. (originator of the above ASCII art)
>=====
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
>http://calendar.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ed Koffeman wrote:
>
> The key is that if you cut the losses in half, you can then probably choose to
> use a motor of similar design that is only (first order approximation) 70% of
> the weight, at the same efficiency as before.
>
> If you keep it the same weight, you get to push about 1.4x more power through it
> than before.
>
> Usually, we want one of the above.
>
> The actual amounts depend on where the efficiency increase came from. If it's
> simple windage (air resistance) elimination or something like that, it's only
> going to give you the direct few percent difference. But if it's from better
> copper utilization (more copper) or better laminations so that less heat is
> produced in the windings it can make a big difference in the power handling
> ability.
>
> Ed Koffeman
>
Good points.
Lets all remember that the original argument was about the E-cycle BLDC
motor, and the like that preceded it. The motors that I have about 3
years of effort on.
Not nice top shelf Siemans drives, Not the Spendy stuff, but the
cheapest of them.
I want one of Victor's biggest liquid cooled motors for "Dennis
Hunting". I think it's the best motor I have ever seen in this weight
and performace catagory. The hard part is building a AC drive that has 6
Zilla2K level power swithces. Daunting!!!
The E-cycle motors ar low voltage simple BLDC motors that started as
Windturbine alternators. And before that a Mopar alternator. The goal is
simple to build, as little winding copper losses as possible and not
much more than 60 hz or say 300 to 600 rpm. These are the sweet spots
that make a good Windpowered energy harvester. Slow and as little losses
as possible.
This limits what you can do with the basic machine as a motor.
Mechanically it can do 8000 to 10,000 rpm. But the losses are rather
impressive up there. Mere seconds of hang time with a 180 Deg F copper
winding limit. Most of this is I2R losses because you are stuffing about
100 times the design power into the motor. Steel losses are mind
boggling. I have seen the steel lams heat up faster than the copper!.
And this was the best, thinest steel that could be found. The heating
componet is the rotational frequency, the HZ that the motor is running
at, NOT the PWM hz, it was over 100Khz. Far enough out where the little
inductance that is there is enough for the Vsats to not trip under most
conditions. The basic test for this is Same power levels at a few
hundred RPM. Things get hot as what the I squared R predicts. You get
good hang time in minutes, and the steel warms from the copper heat, not
the other way around.
So you don't need a current source fed inverter for E-cycle motors.
It's a waste of time. What you have to do is understand that the motor
has RPM limits that are Steel limited. 0 to 4800 is nice, Keep it under
3600 rpm and it's a great device!. Over 5000 and the losses get to be
dominat. Over 10,000 and you have a nice induction furnace.
Ev as we all know them, are a traction application, torque at zero to a
few hundred RPM is the most critical. Not enough here, and you have a
poor proforming EV.
These motors are 12 mangent motors, and can make whopping amounts of
locked rotor torque, if you can commutate at your power stage's current
limit that is. READ Forget BACK emf sensing at this point.
I can break stuff with a smaller version of the Ecycle motor and just
175 amps of 48 volts. So it can be done without the current source
front end DC controller.
What can't be done on a E-cycle motor is extract the heat. Even at a
few Kw like the 5Kw that they are rated to, there is simply too much
heat to be removed. The nice polished case is pretty , and top notch,
And can only scrub off 50 to 100 watts in a 68 deg room. There is simply
not enough surface area to do the Job. Lets say at 5Kw the motor is %90
at some given point, that's still 500 watts of heating. 500 into the
case, and 100 out.... that's 400 that stays and keeps friends. You need
a fan cooled stator, and lots of air holes. It needs to look and feel
like a Automotive alternator to do these power levels. The flip side is
if you keep the rpm low and the power to say 500 watt you will have a
high %90s device.
Extracting the heat, First don't make it, know the limits, and don't go
there often, have LOTS of airflow if you can't avoid it. Or have
extarnal fans that come on only if you need it. NO windage losses until
the copper is about to melt!! Or go liquid cooled. Toyotas are, and the
Siemans motor and drive are.
So lets keep the Uber motor design and controller exotica to a minimum.
Because it's a moot point at this level.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> Peri Hartman wrote:
> > I believe that the higher the PWM frequency, the less motor
> > induction loss will occur. Think of it this way: if you have
> > an infinitely high frequency PWM, you would have a perfect
> > sine wave and zero induction loss. Alternatively, if you pumped
> > in a pure square wave, you would have huge induction loss as
> > the coils draw current from a standstill up to their capacity.
>
> This might be true if the motor was an ideal inductor, but it is not.
> The core losses go up with frequency. The coils also have a substantial
> amount of capacitance, and your inverter has to drive this capacitive
> loading, too. This is another loss that gets worse as you go higher in
> frequency. Finally, the switching transistors themselves have higher
> switching losses as frequency goes up.
>
> > The motor wants only the sine wave and the rest get wasted.
>
> Well, sort of. In a 3-phase motor, the third harmonic happens to cancel
> out and has no effect. Other harmonics produce pulsating torque, or
> torque in the wrong direction.
Lee and Peri, a BLDC motor is NOT a sine wave motor it's a trapazoid.
Feeding them Sine waves is like feeding a linebacker Caviar, when they
want RED meat.
The lenth the the Wave is RPM dependant. Under a certain RPM you get
more torque and less heating from a ramp, and a flattop wave form. Of
course lightly loaded at thier design RPM they are Sine wave makers, and
eaters.
Lee the Fet losses are rather minimal at out to over 100Khz. Running a
60 Hz machine at 1Khz, is what you don't want to do. Many Magnets make
nice torque and a slow spinning motor. E-cycles are 12s.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<I would not trust that it would survive for very long. I doubt the motor
or controller are really up to the loads they would be under. If it really
worked, they would not have sold it.>>
Whatever the circumstances, the seller is one reason I left the zappy
group - a lot of ego issues involved with that 70mph claim. The point is: a
Badsey scooter that is "NIB" goes for more than one that becomes a rolling
science experiment, not even considering reliability or future repair
issues.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
aye !
Christian Kocmick wrote:
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The article isn't that bad, Rod. I've seen much worse. Ignore the reporter
and consider the Isetta EV. This looks like a car that could be a great
NEV. Do you suppose there are NEVs or something similar in the UK
where this car was made?
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Iseta conversion
> This is one of the WORST! EV articles I've ever read. It says it was
> submitted in May but not what year. If I didn't know better I would guess
> around the mid 1800s. Where do these reporters get their education?
>
> Roderick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry -- my previous post on this was a little tangled. When you were
talking about 24 volts somehow I had the idea that this was a Comuta-Car
(24/48 volt system). <shakes head>
Look for either one or mor bum batteries or possibly a bad connection.
Applying a load (could even be running the motor in neutral) and measuring
voltage across each battery, and voltage drop across various connections and
cables, may show you where the problem is.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI David,
Look at Cloud Electric. They've got a 16" moped wheel that's beautiful. They
have one that you can mount a sprocket to, I've got the other version and I
love it. They have several tires that fit it, either a bicycle tire, or Moped
tire. Not sure about the HP rating though. Should work.
For some pics and maybe inspiration, look at winnerscirclemotorsports.com.
They've got some neat jr drag bikes.
Good luck.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Not nice top shelf Siemans drives, Not the Spendy stuff, but the
> cheapest of them.
> I want one of Victor's biggest liquid cooled motors for "Dennis
> Hunting". I think it's the best motor I have ever seen in this weight
> and performace catagory. The hard part is building a AC drive that has 6
> Zilla2K level power swithces. Daunting!!!
Would pair of these work?
http://www.metricmind.com/inverter1.htm
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are invited to attend the Chico chapter of the Electric Auto Association
or "EAA".
Learn more about:
� Electric automobiles
� How to convert a car to electric
� Hybrid automobiles
� Fuel cell powered automobiles
� Compressed natural gas automobiles
This month we will be �trouble shooting� a Bombardier NEV and looking at a
custom designed EV project.
Date: Saturday, June 14th at 11am. The meeting is FREE, and all are welcome.
Join us at 630 W 8th Ave. (go west off Esplanade)
Chico, CA
We need you at the meeting to help our new EAA chapter in Chico. If you are
not now affiliated with a local chapter, we would welcome you to transfer to
our chapter.
EV's of all types (i.e.: autos, scooters, skateboards) and Hybrids are
welcome.
For more information call:
Chuck Alldrin
530-899-1835
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
I've been contacted by someone who has one of those Ford Fairmont
lead sleds made by EVI with a Reliance Electric motor.
He is in need of replacement brushes and holder for the motor. He
has part numbers listed as:
Brush#RE44FH
Holder#800345-1W
Does anyone know where he could buy these?
tks,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
on 6/6/03 1:49 PM, Chuck Alldrin at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You are invited to attend the Chico chapter of the Electric Auto Association
> or "EAA".
>
> Learn more about:
> � Electric automobiles
> � How to convert a car to electric
> � Hybrid automobiles
> � Fuel cell powered automobiles
> � Compressed natural gas automobiles
>
>
> This month we will be �trouble shooting� a Bombardier NEV and looking at a
> custom designed EV project.
>
> Date: Saturday, June 14th at 11am. The meeting is FREE, and all are welcome.
>
> Join us at 630 W 8th Ave. (go west off Esplanade)
> Chico, CA
>
> We need you at the meeting to help our new EAA chapter in Chico. If you are
> not now affiliated with a local chapter, we would welcome you to transfer to
> our chapter.
>
> EV's of all types (i.e.: autos, scooters, skateboards) and Hybrids are
> welcome.
>
> For more information call:
> Chuck Alldrin
> 530-899-1835
>
Thank you for the invite: I'll be at Stanford that weekend so I will not be
able to attend. I am interested in future meetings.
Thanks,
Carmine in Sacramento
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since I am a novice, I want to make sure that I have an accurate diagram
before I start hooking things up.
Please take a look at my proposed wiring diagram at
www.sethwantswork.com/help.htm. It is the first picture in the gallery.
I'm sure that I have screwed something up, as I'm combining elements
from 3 different wiring diagrams.
Thank you in advance, and thanks to Tone Barros and Roderick Wilde for
all their help, as well.
Seth Dallob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see I forgot to update the subject line. Sorry, So here is the post
again with the right subject.
Hello All,
I've been contacted by someone who has one of those Ford Fairmont
lead sleds made by EVI with a Reliance Electric motor.
He is in need of replacement brushes and holder for the motor. He
has part numbers listed as:
Brush#RE44FH
Holder#800345-1W
Does anyone know where he could buy these?
tks,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > Not nice top shelf Siemans drives, Not the Spendy stuff, but the
> > cheapest of them.
> > I want one of Victor's biggest liquid cooled motors for "Dennis
> > Hunting". I think it's the best motor I have ever seen in this weight
> > and performace catagory. The hard part is building a AC drive that has 6
> > Zilla2K level power swithces. Daunting!!!
>
> Would pair of these work?
> http://www.metricmind.com/inverter1.htm
>
> Victor
On first sight they look like they would outclass all but a Zilla 2k and
336 volts.
but my feeling is 240 amp at any volts is not enough current to get the
monster torque we need to launch. NO Doubt that once launched this
system would go pretty good. What we want is a inverter that makes and
can sustain 600 amps per phase, and a single motor that can live for 10
seconds at this level. Twin motors
is NOT the way to go, A single motor eating twin inverters worth of amps
would be. Also 650 volts is a place I fear, 336 is a place I have gone
and can tell about.
The better shot also would be a motor rewound for 180 volts fed with
360 at 2x the amps. This way the motor doesn't saturate at 360 volts.
You won't have to let the inverter go to field weakening mode to still
pull max amps at 10,000 rpm.
and well no buck to play with, it's all tied up in Green boxes.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
