EV Digest 2866
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: RAV4 EV range?
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by Harsha Godavari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: LiIon batteries.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: hybrid??
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Threaded posts (was Ten EV-145's)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Ampabout
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Li Ion/Lead Acid and battery recycling....
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my politics)
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: hybrid??
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: hybrid??
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) What 156V controllers are available?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: More on line calculations pages
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Making a motor with wire, nails, and a particle board base.
by Ryan Fulcher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Charging at campgrounds
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: motor making at home
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Quick Check...EAASV meeting Saturday?
by "Coallier, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: What 156V controllers are available?
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Ford Testifies to Stop Ride Sharing
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Quick Check...EAASV meeting Saturday?
by Will Beckett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Request EVs 2meet Eco Trekker @ Santa Cruz June 26, -more-
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: hybrid?? run out of gas
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Making a motor with wire, nails, and a particle board base.
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Over 6 months ago, I POSTed that question to the RAV4 EV
group. After talking to Tom Dowling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
who lives in Sacramento, he felt comfortable driving 90
miles at 65 mph. His comfort zone was another 10 miles.
So, translated, you can plan on an easy 90 mile range
with a 10 mile range to the charging location.
Others have reported 120 miles, but after talking to
Tom, I feel good about his 90 mile range figure. It is
a range that I can quote to newbies, where no milking
of the range with EV tricks has to be done.
=====
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bill:
I am in midwestern Canada.... Winnipeg, Manitoba - to be
precise. Unfortunately too long a commute to CT :-)
Regards
Harsha Godavari
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Harsha,
> Where are you located ?
> I am in Glastonbury, CT.
> Wouldn't it be nice if us mice did eventually electrically roar :-) .
> Now we just need organization.
> Menlo Park III,
> Bill
>
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 13:24:43 +0000 Harsha Godavari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> > Count me in Bill :-)
> >
> > Regards
> > Harsha Godavari
> > aka The Mouse That Roared
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gary Graunke wrote:
>
> The most cost effective, robust batteries are still golf cart batteries!
That is up front cost.
LiIon packs few of us have may be less expensive over [promised] life
time
than even golf cart flooded batteries, especially considering labor
replacing them several times. Depends on the car and driving
habits.
BMS adds to the cost to the pack, but unlike batteries it is not
disposable items and so can be considered rather part of the car
hardware one time cost, than battery cost.
Personally, I'd rather spend $10k on the pack lasting for life of the
car than incrementally $1k 10 times for cheap ones and have fun
replacing them each time. This is individual preference though.
As Gary pointed out, current LiIons won't perform as good in
low voltage/high current conversion as in high voltage/low
current. They still will if sized appropriately (200Ah, 500Ah and
I've heard 600Ah modules are being made), but less efficiently -
too much energy goes to the heat. Not even mentioning recharging
time...
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I support spirit of your arguments, but if we want to build a credible
financial case for sustainable energy and transportation, we must consider
the time value of money. Your two cases below are identical at 4% cost of
capital. At 10% cost of capital, the present worth of the BEV case is twice
as expensive as the ICE case. The financial analysis just doesn't give us a
slam-dunk. But how can we convince people of the value of the environmental
and energy independence arguments, when many people are apparently still
waiting for scientific proof that seatbelts save lives and that tobacco
cause cancer? Perhaps the EV movement needs an MLK or JFK type person to
energize the masses on these issues? Or will a global catastrophe be
necessary to turn things around? Mark T.
>
> Here's how I see it, Spend $100,000 on a big PV or Wind setup.
> Spend $20,000 for an EV. Spend $1000 every 2 years for new batteries.
> Over my 100 year lifespan that's $170,000, then my children will spend
> $50,000 for their entire lifetime. Plus I can probably heat my house,
> keep my food cold, light my patio all for nothing.
>
> Or, I could buy a $20,000 ICE car each 10 years.
> Put fuel/oil into them at 52 weeks, 500miles/weeks, 20mpg, $2/gal=$2600
> each year for fuel. and about 52,000lbs of smog. (at $5/gal = $6500)
> That's $460,000 over the course of my lifetime, and nothing to show
> for it in the end, except for the 5,200,000lbs of pollution and some
> 130,000 gallons of for ever used up fossil fuel.
>
> BEV = <200K and 50K for each generation after, no pollution
> ICE = >500K, nothing for kids but 5 million lbs of crap in the air.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm in the process of changing my batteries right now and I have
> stainless nuts and bolts but 'L' post batteries. Is stainless a
> problem here? Wouldn't most of the current flow between the copper
> buss bars and the terminal?
Yes, you are depending primarily on conduction between the 'L' post and
the buss bar. The bolt just provides the claming pressure, so stainless
steel bolts should be fine.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chuck Hursch wrote:
> How will a computer/e-meter deal with a cell that basically goes
> off a cliff at some distance?
There are many ways to estimate SOC (State Of Charge) of a lead-acid
battery. Here are some common ones:
- specific gravity
- amphours
- no-load voltage
- internal resistance
The E-meter uses amphours to estimate SOC. Since capacity is strongly
affected by discharge current, the E-meter uses Peukert equation to
correct for it. But, the E-meter ignores voltage and internal
resistance.
A "smarter" E-meter would watch the no-load voltage, and use it to
correct its amphour-based SOC reading. When the voltage is bouncing
around due to battery current, it would use amphours to estimate SOC as
it does now.
Internal resistance of a lead-acid battery also varies predictably with
SOC. Mainly, it goes up fast as the cell approaches fully discharged.
Internal resistance is also strongly affected by temperature, and by bad
connections or failing cells.
So, the "smartest" E-meter would also calculate internal resistance (the
change in voltage caused by a change in current), and see if it is
reasonable at the present temperature and for the present SOC estimated
by voltage and amphours. A sudden increase in internal resistance means
there is a bad connection, or that some cell in the pack has
unexpectedly gone dead. This should be a special alarm condition, to
warn you that something is about to fail!
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your Force batteries are a gel type
that Solectria uses. They are different
that wet cells commonly used. I would
talk to the Force EV group members
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/force_ev/
I would also talk to "Will Beckett"
[EMAIL PROTECTED] who who has gone through
a battery repalcement on his Force.
He can advise you of what battery source
he used. I believe he tried a battery
that Jim Ramos of US Battery offered, but
I do not have the results of its performance
or of how well they fit.
A like the Sparrow, the Force battery box
expects the battery it was designed for.
The terminals have to be the same as well.
Don Gillis does not sell used batteries.
Don is a San Jose EAA chapter member who
works the battery exchange program amoungst
local SF EAA members.
The Program:
You give Don your old pack when you are ready
for a full replacement. You tell the battery
company to contact Don for the dead cores.
Don gives truelyy dead cores to the battery
company.
Meanwhile, he queues up to go through your old
pack, and test them. The dead cores are
separated from the not-so-dead batteries.
When a local SF EAA member has a couple of
batteries go lame when they still have a year
to go on the rest of their pack, Don can offer
the not-so-dead batteries that still have at
least a year's life left in them.
=====
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John,
Most commuters may ride alone, but might use that extra seat room for
carpool, grociers, etc. especially if it is their only means of private
transportation other than a bicycle or walking.
There's also the fact that some of us like to date every now and
again. ;-) It's nice to be able to pick her up in your own nifty EV,
rather than an ICE.
CT is one state where it is illegal to drive enclosed motorcycles.
You can research other states if you need more.
OH is another. I believe they are the only two. Note that states
recognize licences issued in other states, which is why you can drive
in, say CA in a car with WA plates. You just can't own an enclosed
three-wheeler in the two above states. OH, you can't own one at all,
enclosed or not.
Many people that don't consider a motorcycle a problem should then ride
electric motorcycles.
OK. Where can they buy one? Most people don't want to build one.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Conversions are allowed in the HOV lanes if they have a
HOV sticker. To get the sticker, the conversion EV has
to be registered as 'E' for Electric, and the proper
form with the fee has to be submitted.
There have been reports of a few drivers having trouble,
but most of those were vehicles not registered as 'E',
and DMV personally being overly careful not to let
and EV that can not go 65 mph get a sticker (you
had to prove it wasn't an nEV).
When the program started, I knew my registration was
set to 'E', and mailed in my form and fee. I received
my stickers a few weeks later.
While my top speed is 75 mph, I only go in the HOV lanes
when the rest of the traffic is at a craw/stopped. When
In that situation, I keep my speed up to keep from
being chewed up by Goliath SUVs snorting on my bumper.
Note:
when your new registration comes after paying your
yearly renewal fee, make sure the DMV did not screw
up and change your registration from 'E'. Always
keep last year's registration as proof for the
few hard-headed DMV employees.
...
This 'conversions not allowed in the HOV lane' keeps
coming up again and again. It is going to be a mis-
conception we will have correct over and over again.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We'll probably have to wait for a catastrophe, unfortunently, I expect
to experience one within the next 10 years.
The "Bright" side of globle warming and less ozone is:
More UV radiation reaching the surface, so my PV panels should
output more ane more energy, no? Funny, yet I'm not laughing.
L8r
Ryan
Mark Thomasson wrote:
I support spirit of your arguments, but if we want to build a credible
financial case for sustainable energy and transportation, we must consider
the time value of money. Your two cases below are identical at 4% cost of
capital. At 10% cost of capital, the present worth of the BEV case is twice
as expensive as the ICE case. The financial analysis just doesn't give us a
slam-dunk. But how can we convince people of the value of the environmental
and energy independence arguments, when many people are apparently still
waiting for scientific proof that seatbelts save lives and that tobacco
cause cancer? Perhaps the EV movement needs an MLK or JFK type person to
energize the masses on these issues? Or will a global catastrophe be
necessary to turn things around? Mark T.
Here's how I see it, Spend $100,000 on a big PV or Wind setup.
Spend $20,000 for an EV. Spend $1000 every 2 years for new batteries.
Over my 100 year lifespan that's $170,000, then my children will spend
$50,000 for their entire lifetime. Plus I can probably heat my house,
keep my food cold, light my patio all for nothing.
Or, I could buy a $20,000 ICE car each 10 years.
Put fuel/oil into them at 52 weeks, 500miles/weeks, 20mpg, $2/gal=$2600
each year for fuel. and about 52,000lbs of smog. (at $5/gal = $6500)
That's $460,000 over the course of my lifetime, and nothing to show
for it in the end, except for the 5,200,000lbs of pollution and some
130,000 gallons of for ever used up fossil fuel.
BEV = <200K and 50K for each generation after, no pollution
ICE = >500K, nothing for kids but 5 million lbs of crap in the air.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
I have children 12, 9, 6, and 4. They all love the electric stuff I build
and I would enjoy showing them how to build a simple electric motor. Do you
have a URL or simple instructions for this? Sounds like fun.
damon
When I can teach a 3rd grader
"exactly"
how an electric motor works in a matter of 5 minutes. That same child
could build a motor with just a few feet of copper wire, 7 nails, and a
chunck of particle board.
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm just wondering what EV Controllers are available if I ever fry the DCP
in my Sparrow. I'm getting the impression that the choices for a 156V pack
are getting scarce...
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ok, EV Calculator Ideas:
EV Specs are somewhat complicated and difficult for the public to grasp,
heck they are sometimes difficult for me to grasp... So...
How to make it simpler, we need to find some "meaningfull" numbers.
Batteries:
Energy Density, energy to weight, energy to cost...
Motors/Controlers:
Power Levels, Cost per power output, effeciency...
Charging systems:
Quality of charge, effeciency, speed, cost...
For Example: Batteries all share common characteristics.
A particular voltage, weight, capacity, cost, pucker curve.
Yet they are not very usefull unless we can compair them to eachother.
So, are my 13Ah hawkers better than the new Li-ion's?
It depends on the application I guess, the hawker can probably
belt out more power, but the Li-ions have far greater energy density
and a far steeper cost.
Here's a very incomplete and poor example:
http://dolio.lh.net/Hybrid/Insight/SuperMods/batteries.html
Here is a table I put together on power/weight ratios of some cars:
http://dolio.lh.net/Hybrid/Insight/SuperMods/powertoweight.html
It's easy to see that my Insight has a power to weight ratio of
28.16, and 25.85 with the IMA, and 9.435 with a "Super IMA",
Which is almost as good as a Mustang Shelby's 8.13.
Though you have to do some calculations to "see" all of this.
So, It might be usefull to put together some tables to make it
easy to "see" that the Li-Ions have 10 times the energy density
as my hawkers and roughly the same cost/energy density ratio.
Someone with more knowledge on the subject could come up with
some more usefull values and ratios and formulas for determining
all of this.
As for the "Logging" part, I thought that it might be usefull to
collect data from the calculations, for example: how much power
does the average EV use per mile at various speeds? If there were
a calculator that could help EV'ers determin this, it could also
keep track of the values that people had entered, and thus give
us a clear set of real world numbers. We could then say EV's use
100-120 Watts per mile at 30mph and 200-240 Watts per mile at 60mph.
Anyway..
L8r
Ryan
James Jarrett wrote:
Actually, this is all doable. NONE of my code is java. I hate java (for
the reasons you mention and others) all my code is SERVER side php. So
logging is doable.
Tell you what, you send me off list (or on) a list of the calcualtions you
want made, and how to do them (I don't always know) and I'll put the pages
up.
James
PS We'll worry about logging later,
JJ
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
The superior man is distressed by the limitation of his ability; he is not
distressed by the fact that men do not recognize the ability he has. -
Confucius
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ryan Fulcher
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2003 11:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: More on line calculations pages
How about power to weight ratios?
How about battery pack calculations and conversions?
cell/battery voltage, capacity * # of cells/batteries
expected or real max current, normal current,
apply putrid<sp> real world capacity out.
something...
Say, how about making the calculators log the input.
so that we can take a look at what people are inputting?
( I suppose since they are java and all browser side
this may not be so simple, perhaps a "submit" button )
I would like to see a public domain EV page chuck full of
all kinds of calculators. If "logging" is implamented then
it turns into a data gathering system so we can create some
real world statistics from real ev performances. ?!?
L8r
Ryan
James Jarrett wrote:
Hi all,
The success (and ok, I'll admit it, fun of making it) of the on line EV /
Gas comparisions page got me thinking.
Are there any other "complex" EV calculations that would be good to present
this way. I have a lot of "busywork" I have to do at my desk today and may
have some time to work on another project or two.
Suggestions?
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong, and an even bigger one to keep
his mouth shut when he's right. - Jim Fiebig
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
umm, well not really, I made such a beast back in 4th grade for 4H.
I'll try to explain:
1. Use a long nail for the armature, in the middle of it connect
a pair of nails facing opposite directions, wrap with electric tape.
2. The "stator?" is made by benting two nails at 90 degrees and
connecting them with electrical tape to form a "U" shape that is
slightly wider than the pair of nails on the armature.
3. I used coated copper wire that was most likely pulled out of some
other junk motor or transformer. Wrap this wire arround the bottom
of the U shaped stator, and arround the 2 nails on the armature.
4. The tricky part is the "contactors" on the armature. The ends of the
wire coil that you created on the armature should be run down the
single long nail and then doubled-back a few times. I believe they
are offset by 90 degrees from the pair of nails.
5. A set of long finishing nails are driven into the base particle board
just next to eachother and wrapped with tape near the top. Another
set at the opposite side of the base will form the two "bearings" on
which the armature rests, and rotats on.
6. Attach the stator to the base between the two support bearings, at a
90 degree angle, like a horse shoe magnet to that the armature will
spin freely inside the horse shoe "U".
7. Use some wire to form the brushes, they(2) should be attached to the
base near one of the supports and extend upward so each will rest
against one side of the armature when it is placed on the supports.
8. Hooking it all up. From a 6 or 12v lanturn battery, run positive into
one end of the stationary stator coil, out of the coil and into one
of the brushes, which will connect with one side of the "contactor"
flow through the armature, out the other contactor to the other
brush, and back to the negative terminal of the battery.
How it works? A coil of wire arround nails will form an elecrto-megnet
with a field. The stator coil has a N and S pole at each end of the
horse shoe shaped U, it does not change. The Armature in the same way
generates a megnetic field that should be opposite the stator field.
as the armature is repelled and rotates 180 degrees the contactors on
the armature roatate with it 180 degrees, and the field is reversed,
causing the armature to continue rotating. It is a simple DC motor.
Don't expect it to go very fast, 20-30 rpms and No torque to speak of.
You may have to get it started by tapping it into motion.
I recieved a blue and purple ribbin at the county fair, and a red one
at the state fair (because I connected the wires to the battery
incorrectly, or against the screw rotation direction) and I'm still
bitter about that to this day. <G>rin
I've probably slaughtered all the the motor termanology so please
correct me. Here comes a crude ASCII drawing...
_
contactors |c| <--armature
| __ |c| e=electric tape
brush | || |c|
| v || |c| support/bearing
---|-|--===|==-----e|c|e-----|-|--| <-- long nail
|e| | | || |c| |e|
|e| | | || |c| |e|
|e| | | || |c| __ |e|
___ |e| _ | | ___ || |c| || _ |e| __
\ |e| | | \c\- || |e| \
\ |e| | | \c\ || |e| \
\_|_|__ | | \c\ || _|e|_ \
\ |brush \c\ || \
\ \c\|| \
\_________________\c\|________base__\
Anyway, It can be done, perhaps someone has better instructions
It may be easier with one of those "science store" type kits, but
it's much more rewarding to make it out of nothing but nails and wire!
L8r
Ryan
damon henry wrote:
Ryan,
I have children 12, 9, 6, and 4. They all love the electric stuff I
build and I would enjoy showing them how to build a simple electric
motor. Do you have a URL or simple instructions for this? Sounds like
fun.
damon
When I can teach a 3rd grader
"exactly"
how an electric motor works in a matter of 5 minutes. That same child
could build a motor with just a few feet of copper wire, 7 nails, and a
chunck of particle board.
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My RV uses a 50 amp feed to run dual A/C units. I don't have dual units so
it is not necessary.
One way to find 50 amp service at KOA camp grounds is to go to their website
at http://www.koa.com/koafacts/campfac.htm and enter "50 amps" and the state
in the search box. It will list all the KOA campgrounds in that state that
offer 50 amp service.
Every KOA I have visited that offered 50 amp service had a 14-50 on a GFCI
breaker right in the box.
Other places to find 240 power are at convenience stores. Sometimes they
have outdoor outlets for an espresso cart, ice maker or deep far fryer under
their awnings.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Charging at campgrounds
> Any other ideas for places which would have 240 volt outlets?
>
> Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I have children 12, 9, 6, and 4. They all love the electric stuff I
> build and I would enjoy showing them how to build a simple electric
> motor. Do you have a URL or simple instructions for this? Sounds like
> fun.
>
> damon
I'd recommend http://www.simplemotor.com/ - you can glean a lot from the
site, or break down and pay for their kits.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:
> There's also the fact that some of us like to date every now and
> again. ;-) It's nice to be able to pick her up in your own nifty EV,
> rather than an ICE.
When my wife and I were dating, I picked her up on our 2nd date in my
ComutaVan EV. She married me anyway :-)
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all...hope I got the plain text setting right this time.
Just checking to make sure the Silicon Valley EVAA chapter is still meeting this
Saturday, as I was hoping to stop by (and I'd hate to be chased off by HP security if
it's not still on!).
Looking forward to it...
.Steve Coallier
"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway!"
- Narrowly avoided losing a deposit on a late-model Sparrow
- Hopes for an EV Cobra replica NEDRA SC/A record breaker
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This car is listed as a "Solar Electric Vehicle" with a model year of 2004:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2420246849
Any know anything about this?
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John,
this is a very good question for the Sparrow EV group.
I would hope they have come up with a solution already.
I see you are POSTing on there, so I assume you have
already asked.
DCpowersystems.com site is still up, and there are
numerous HS conversion web sites that reference to
buying a DCP through Canadian Electric Vehicles.
Since there is a space limitation with Sparrows (what
controller will fit in the allocated space), you should
run your questions by Clare Bell
http://geocities.com/evet_tech
She's the Sparrow repair resource.
...
: Fun mode :
Looking at evparts.com clicking street, then scroll
down to controllers in your voltage ...
You could bolt a Godzilla on and smoke your way
through town. You'd look like a Sparrow on Steroids :-)
=====
' ____
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'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
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Is this serious? Lawrence Rhodes......Gotta be a spoof....
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2002/08/ride_sharing.html
----------------------------------------------------
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from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
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Near the bottom of the page, I read:
"Please allow 365 days for assembly and delivery of vehicle."
Uh huh.
Oh, and
"Shipping within the USA is $1,000. International shipping is
$10,000."
Right.
Tell you what. Why don't you send ME $92,100 instead? I'll actually send
you back a functional EV, without making you wait a year -- though I'll admit
it won't look as sexy as that car. And I can't be sure, but I suspect that I'll
use your (my) 92 grand more carefully than "solar solutions" will.
BTW, I tried a web search for "solar solutions." I found pages for two such
organizations, but neither one looked like an EV builder.
DR, Akron
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----- Original Message -----
From: "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:28 PM
Subject: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
> This car is listed as a "Solar Electric Vehicle" with a model year of
2004:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2420246849
>
> Any know anything about this?
>
I think you will find that this is what is called a "test balloon". Note in
description that car is listed as "built to order" and "All vehicle
component specifications are proprietary until final sale and delivery of
vehicle.". Whats really funny is the referance to "The Ultima E1 is
available with an optional photovoltaic and/or windpower system if your
electricity is not already provided by renewable energy". Their webpage
opens in some language (looks like german to me) and e-mail contact is to
someone named "Piers". Would be interesting to see what would happen if they
actually bagged a buyer. I assume that whoever is doing this figures the
E-bay NS fee is cheap advertising, and that a person that is really
interested in a high end EV will e-mail directly anyway. If nothing else,
look what has happened already, you saw it, you posted it to the list where
I saw it and many others see it, etc... ripples in the pond. DC.
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Yes, the EAA Silicon Valley Chapter meeting is on. For details please see
http://eaasv.org and click on meetings
- Will
Will Beckett
Contact information (https://ecardfile.com/id/will_beckett)
Become a member or donate to the Electric Auto Association, donations are
tax deductible. http://eaaev.org/eaamembership.html
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Coallier, Steve
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:19 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Quick Check...EAASV meeting Saturday?
Hi all...hope I got the plain text setting right this time.
Just checking to make sure the Silicon Valley EVAA chapter is still meeting
this Saturday, as I was hoping to stop by (and I'd hate to be chased off by
HP security if it's not still on!).
Looking forward to it...
.Steve Coallier
"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway!"
- Narrowly avoided losing a deposit on a late-model Sparrow
- Hopes for an EV Cobra replica NEDRA SC/A record breaker
--- End Message ---
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[This POST is being broadcasted to all EV discussion groups]
Please see complete detail on
http://eaaev.org/ecotrekker.html
'We have a unique opportunity to attend a media event to
meet the Eco Trekker and crew on Thursday June 26, 2003
from 5pm-7pm in Santa Cruz:
The Compassion Flower Inn
216 Laurel Street
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
The show's producer has invited EVs to attend.'
...
RSVP, if you are going to attend with your EV
please contact Kim as described.
...
After that date, that page (above url) lists many other
cities (Itinerary) in which EVs can meet with him. It
would be good to have each EAA Chapter or EV group of
that area make a showing of support and leverage off
the public visibility.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I'm just wondering...How did you manage to run out of
> gas...7 times...in the same car?! There has to be some
> kind of interesting story behind that or something.
Well, OK, first, I would never have run out in the first place if it weren't for the
fact that I heard someone else had done it, and been able to limp along to a gas
station. Now, on my way to work, it's rare to be more than a mile away from a gas
station, so the first time I did it, it was intentional. Let me tell you, it's a
weird feeling staring at an empty gas gauge and driving with the intention of running
it out. Kind of like Indiana Jones when he steps out for the stones in mid-air that
aren't there yet.
The second time, and third time, and fourth time, and fifth time, I just wasn't being
that careful. Why should I? I knew I had this extra reserve if I needed it.
The sixth time, I was totally pre-occupied. Way too much on my mind. I was trying to
get to the beach on time before it got way too cold, my girlfriend kept getting later
in her meeting, I was petrified I would forget something, and I was just totally happy
that she said yes when I proposed. So, after a lovely dinner, on the way home, it
dawned on me for the first time that my tank was low when the center console suddenly
flashed the big orange triangle and the car dropped into stealth mode (Prius fan's
terminology for all-electric operation). Immediately I turned to her and said, "It's
too late, you've already said yes."
The seventh time, we were in a big hurry to get to San Francisco, which is how we got
really low. Then we forgot on the way back, until we got the orange triangle on the
way back. That was a problem, because on highway 280 I didn't know where the nearest
station was. Well, OK, I knew where the nearest station was, but it would involve
turning from 280S to 280N, and being a male I knew that it's illegal for a male to
make an admission-of-failure U-turn. So I motored on and made an idiot of myself
instead when, after 6 miles, the Prius had had enough and shut down. Fortunately we
knew a friend who was even closer to us than a gas station.
And that was the last time I ran out.
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of bholmber
Sent: Thu 6/19/2003 4:42 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: hybrid?? run out of gas
I'm just wondering...How did you manage to run out of gas...7 times...in the
same car?! There has to be some kind of interesting story behind that or
something. I consider myself pretty brave with my '91 CRX HF, and I
routinely drive with the needle way below empty on the gauge. I have never
run out of gas in my entire life.
Brett
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jorg Brown
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 4:27 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: hybrid?? run out of gas
Just to clarify...
I have a Prius, and I'm up to 50K miles now, and I've run out of gas about 7
times so far, which the dealer and Toyota have said is something you should
never ever do.
I've gone from 1/2 to 5 miles in this no-gas situation, including one time
when I underestimated the distance involved and after about 6 miles, the
Prius stopped and would not budge. A phone call to a friend, a trip to a
gas station, and a fill-up from a portable gas container later, the Prius
happily started up and motored on.
So, although I've been told there are issues with running totally out of gas
in the Prius, I've never seen them myself.
jorg
ps Interesting statistic I've been told: the average male runs his car to
10% full before re-filling. The average female, 25%.
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 6/19/2003 4:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: hybrid?? run out of gas
Hondas (Insight and Honda Civic Hybrid) are electric-turbo gas cars. Run out
of gas, you don't go. Electric only suppliments power when you're
accellerating, and provides braking and electricity recapture when slowing
down. Otherwise an all-gas vehicle with an oversize starter, to kick-start
the gas engine from a stop.
Toyota (Prius) is an electric/gas parallel system. At low speeds it can be
driven as all-electric, provided (1) the gas engine and exhaust system are
already warmed up, (2) the battery pack is mostly to fully charged, and (3)
you are accellerating slowly to no require the gas engine to suppliment
power. I've heard that in the Prius if you run out of gas you have
additional problems. The fuel line incorporates a bladder/reserve, which if
that runs dry must be primed before the car will restart.
None of the current hybrids, nor any of the future US-manufactured hybrids,
provide true EV propulsion beyond the gas engine (except as qualified for
the Prius). Out of gas, out of luck. If you forget to plug in (with gas),
you stop running (just like any gas car).
Every car plugs in, whether to a gas pump or an electrical outlet. The
outlet is more efficient and much less pollution. Still waiting for the true
plug-in hybrids...
-Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
From: Carmen Farruggia [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 3:46 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: hybrid??
I probably missed this question and answer in the last few weeks or few
thousand posts which ever came first but I'll ask anyway.
What happens when a hybrid runs out of gas? Does the EV kick in? Or does
the car just not run?
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Subject: RE: hybrid?? run out of gas
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:23:58 -0700
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From: "Jorg Brown--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Making a motor with wire, nails, and a particle board base.
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:24:28 -0700
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Damon, I saw a really nifty design of just such a science project motor on
the web that was made out of 2 paper clips, a D cell, some fairly heavy
magnet wire, a magnet, and a couple other minor bits. I think this will fill
the bill for you. Regards, David Chapman.
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~palmer/motor.html
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:41:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I sent a message to the seller asking them who they are
and other questions we need to know.
But my unreal antenna wiggle when I read:
-the price is higher than $40k
-no contact info listed
-built to order
-takes a year to deliver
I'd have to swallow hard on that listing.
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
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Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:44:54 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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David -
What webpage is that? I didn't see one referenced from the eBay page.
My favorite feature of this car is how the color changes depending on =
what angle you photograph it from.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of David Chapman
Sent: Thu 6/19/2003 11:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
=20
Their webpage
opens in some language (looks like german to me) and e-mail contact is =
to
someone named "Piers". Would be interesting to see what would happen if =
they
actually bagged a buyer. I assume that whoever is doing this figures the
E-bay NS fee is cheap advertising, and that a person that is really
interested in a high end EV will e-mail directly anyway. If nothing =
else,
look what has happened already, you saw it, you posted it to the list =
where
I saw it and many others see it, etc... ripples in the pond. DC.
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Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 00:44:54 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Thread-Index: AcM2+bJAvGkczJDtRFSRPSS6H4erRAABiSDy
From: "Jorg Brown--
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