EV Digest 2867
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Ford Testifies to Stop Ride Sharing (OT)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Ford Testifies to Stop Ride Sharing
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: DC to AC - summary
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) OT: Laptop powered by micro-ICE
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) New Optima?
by "paul compton (RRes-Roth)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Building electric motors, was hybrid?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Fuel powered Laptop,
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Sparrow creature comforts
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: What 156V controllers are available?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Manufacturing EVs (was: RE: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is
dirty)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Inverter in EV
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: What 156V controllers are available?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: hybrid??, EV grin, etc
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Laptop powered by micro-ICE
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New Optima?
by Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: hybrid?? run out of gas
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: What 156V controllers are available?
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Request EVs 2meet Eco Trekker @ Santa Cruz June 26, -more-
by Sharkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: New Optima?
by Jeremy Green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Li-ion car on eBay
by "Steven S. Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: motor making at home
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Laptop powered by micro-ICE
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) 50mpg from Lotus Elise was RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Inverter in EV
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) RE: Laptop powered by micro-ICE
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
33) 'Lectric Lotus? Proposal ideas?
by "Doug Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Of course it's a spoof. If you read it carefully, it's obviously some idiot
trying to make an analogy to file sharing in order to justify their piracy
habit.
Yet another intellectual property thief showing how stupid they really are!
.Steven Coallier
"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway!"
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Ford Testifies to Stop Ride Sharing
Is this serious? Lawrence Rhodes......Gotta be a spoof....
http://www.bbspot.com/News/2002/08/ride_sharing.html
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:44 AM
Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
David -
What webpage is that? I didn't see one referenced from the eBay page.
My favorite feature of this car is how the color changes depending on what
angle you photograph it from.
Jorg, click on the ME hyperlink next to the sellers name and E-bay rating.
That will take you to his About Me page and you will find the link from
there. DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 11:45:11PM -0700, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Is this serious? Lawrence Rhodes......Gotta be a spoof....
> http://www.bbspot.com/News/2002/08/ride_sharing.html
Yes, bbspot is a satire site. Very funny too... This one looks like
a spoof of RIAA and MPAA and file sharing...
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we
are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
-Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President (1858-1919)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Thanks everyone for you suggestions.
Ok, so I checked out the various options available.
SunEnergyUSA (now Xantrex Technology) don't do one.
Exeltech actually comes pretty close.
Their XPK-3-I-5-1 variety for just under US $1000 will output 1100W (2200W surge) of
240V, 50Hz AC from 95 to 149V DC.
I guess for my purposes I will have to have a bit of a think about whether it is worth
the expense.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So it's not bad enough that people drive around in ICE powered cars, now they can run
their laptops from a tiny ICE generator...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31312.html
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just read a press release on the Johnson Controls website about a new Group 51
YelloTop.
Specs quoted were;
Length: 9 15/16"
Width: 5 1/16"
Height: 8 15/16"
Weight: 26 lbs.
CCA: 500
Reserve capacity: 70 minutes
Anyone actually seen one of these?
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/motor.htm
http://www.simplemotor.com
Everything you need to build your own!
Rod
www.qsl.net/w8rnh
--- damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Ryan,
>
> I have children 12, 9, 6, and 4. They all love the
> electric stuff I build
> and I would enjoy showing them how to build a simple
> electric motor. Do you
> have a URL or simple instructions for this? Sounds
> like fun.
>
> damon
>
> When I can teach a 3rd grader
> >"exactly"
> >how an electric motor works in a matter of 5
> minutes. That same child
> >could build a motor with just a few feet of copper
> wire, 7 nails, and a
> >chunck of particle board.
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months
> FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Need to read closely.
"Vehicle Condition
New. Built-to-order."
Which means they are trying to use ebay to sell orders on an unbuilt car.
-----Original Message-----
From: The Levine Family
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 6/19/03 11:28 PM
Subject: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
This car is listed as a "Solar Electric Vehicle" with a model year of
2004:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2420246849
Any know anything about this?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Tromley wrote:
billglic wrote:
You need a two seat commuter
Judging from other comments I think I need to emphasize that the concept
I have *is* for a two seater. A two seat, tandem three wheeler. Real
car size, so you can get the weight distribution and cg correct.
Corbin's extreme design compromise to get the Sparrow to fit in
motorcycle parking is one of the major factors in their failure.
The main requirement I have for a commuting vehicle is heat
and air conditioning. (I hate not being able to type AC, since
on that list it might be alternating current...)
I'd love something sparrow-like if it had heat and AC.
I need to be able to go to work, and get to off-site meetings
in a suit without getting discheveled.
Heat unit could be small. Just defrosters.
Would that zap a sparrow's battery pack too quickly?
I'm assuming that the sparrows never had heat or AC.
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, this is not a bad idea IF you could use a renewable energy source,
say alcohol or hydrogen (not likely). I kinda like the idea of "Hey Maw,
pass the Everclear, I got's to check my e-mail..."
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aaron,
The Sparrow comes standard with a heater/defroster. But most owners don't
use it, so I'm not certain how much it affects range/performance. But the
heater has its own contactor.
For AC, the Sparrow has the old 2-by-whatever-your-speed is = windows. A
couple of owners have toyed with portable AC systems, just to stick inside,
which run off of the 12v accessory plug.
-Ed Thorpe
-----Original Message-----
Aaron Birenboim wrote:
The main requirement I have for a commuting vehicle is heat
and air conditioning. (I hate not being able to type AC, since
on that list it might be alternating current...)
I'd love something sparrow-like if it had heat and AC.
I need to be able to go to work, and get to off-site meetings
in a suit without getting discheveled.
Heat unit could be small. Just defrosters.
Would that zap a sparrow's battery pack too quickly?
I'm assuming that the sparrows never had heat or AC.
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 07:11 AM 6/20/2003 -0600, Aaron Birenboim wrote:
I'm assuming that the sparrows never had heat or AC.
Sparrows have Heaters, which work a bit too well. They will cook you out
of the cab in short order. (And DO NOT leave the heater on if the fan is
off, you WILL melt the ductwork.)
As for AC, well, I call it 260 Air. (Open both windows, go 60mph :-)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:29 PM 6/19/2003 -0700, Bruce EVangel Parmenter wrote:
this is a very good question for the Sparrow EV group.
I would hope they have come up with a solution already.
I see you are POSTing on there, so I assume you have
already asked.
Hmm, looks like I forgot to copy my post there... sigh.
DCpowersystems.com site is still up, and there are
numerous HS conversion web sites that reference to
buying a DCP through Canadian Electric Vehicles.
I was under the impression that DCP had temporarily (long term) stopped
building controllers.
Since there is a space limitation with Sparrows (what
controller will fit in the allocated space), you should
run your questions by Clare Bell
http://geocities.com/evet_tech
She's the Sparrow repair resource.
Yeah, but I wanted to make sure to find out all possibilities. (Plus, Clare
has been difficult to get ahold of lately.)
You could bolt a Godzilla on and smoke your way
through town. You'd look like a Sparrow on Steroids :-)
I don't think the belt drive would survive... :-)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
billglic wrote:
> I don't think it is a good idea to try and sell EVs that are
> not atleast as safe as their ICE counterparts as it could
> only take one crash to end the business.
A successful EV has to be perceived by the public as truly ready for
public consumption. This includes crash safety.
I may be mistaken here, but I detect an implication that a small, light
EV must necessarily be inferior to "normal" cars in terms of crash
safety. That's not true. If I needed to pick a car based solely on
crash safety, and had to choose between an SUV and a purpose-built tube
frame sports racing car in the ~2 liter class, it's no contest. The
race car has a much better chance of keeping me alive. There's no
reason the same construction principles can't be applied to a consumer
vehicle. In fact, you're almost forced into it due to tooling costs.
As for one crash ending the business, I think that's a little
overstated. The huge damage awards you hear about are a small minority.
A plaintiff needs to prove negligence.
For me it's an enormous, sobering responsibility to design a vehicle
that keeps people alive. I know that if I were to ever actually build
and sell enough vehicles, somewhere, sometime, someone is going to die
in one. I'm not sure how I'd handle that. I know that accidents are
uncontrolled events, and you simply can't cover all contingencies. The
best you can do is put everything you have into improving the drivers'
odds. Take that responsibility seriously, and the company should be in
good shape.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I plan on running a cheap 12V to 120Vac inverter
in my TEVan to power a TV/VCR combo.
The sound is distorted on the TV when connected
to the inverter but not when it's plugged into
a real 120Vac outlet.
I'm wondering if an inline inductor and AC capacitor
on the output of the inverter will clean up the
waveform before it goes to the TV plug?
Has anybody tried this and if so what value
inductor and capacitor did you use?
Thanks,
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
> I'm just wondering what EV Controllers are available if I
> ever fry the DCP
> in my Sparrow. I'm getting the impression that the choices
> for a 156V pack
> are getting scarce...
Hi John,
KTA has a few DCP controllers left, but those are the last that I know
of. The Raptor has a 156V limit. I had originally planned on using
one, but I found out Otmar's Zilla Z1K is small enough to prevent me
from doing more sheet metal work to fit the DCP. Water cooling (no heat
sink) does the trick. The -LV version has a 156V limit. After looking
into it a bit more, I realized the Zilla has far more features, a
programmable 1000 amp max motor and/or battery loop limit, and
reliability handed down from the 2000 amp drag controllers. When you
add a potbox and cooling components for a system equivalent to a DCP,
the cost is only a hundred or so more than a DCP. Quite a deal.
For those who might be mystified as to why 156V is a typical cutoff
point for controllers, I believe it's because that nominal voltage can
go to something just under 200V during charging. 200V is a typical
ceiling for power silicon. Experts, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When my Insight ran out of gas, it drifted to a stop and that was
that. Can't plug it in.
Global warming? The rednecks around here have an answer for that
- denial. Even if there is temperature evidence of global
warming, they claim that it is a natural cycle unrelated to
greenhouse gases. When our planet turns into another Venus,
they'll claim that was inevitable, and drive their tungsten
SUV's. Sigh.
Obligatory EV content: I finally got the US 250-HC's installed
and put a couple of gentle cycles on them. The car is not as
perky as when it was running on the light weight test pack, but
acceleration is quite adequate. With the sepex (Zapi sem-3)
controller, throttle position is more like a speed control. I
press the pedal to draw, say 200 amps, and the car accelerates to
some speed and the amps drop if I keep my foot in the same
position. Different. I like it. Maybe I'll get some discreet
resistors for a push button cruise control. Hmm.
I'm going to postpone the full EV grin until I get her licensed
and insured. Yesterday I hooked up the emergency brake cable.
Of course it turned out to take many times longer than I thought
it would. I could not get access to hook up the cable without
taking the whole dash apart. Sigh. Should have done that before
installing the dash in the first place. Emergency brakes still
don't work - they need to be individually adjusted with a thinned
down wrench. I'm going to buy a cheap wrench and go at 'er with
the grinder. Sigh. If it's not one thing then it's another.
Then it's door adjustment and hook up the front lights and turn
signals. Then maybe I'll take some time out to wire up the big
outlet so I can charge at something more than 12.5 amps.
Getting close.
Mike Hoskinson
Ryan Fulcher wrote:
We'll probably have to wait for a catastrophe, unfortunently, I expect
to experience one within the next 10 years.
The "Bright" side of globle warming and less ozone is:
More UV radiation reaching the surface, so my PV panels should
output more ane more energy, no? Funny, yet I'm not laughing.
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Levine Family wrote:
> This car is listed as a "Solar Electric Vehicle" with a model
> year of 2004:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=
> 2420246849
>
> Any know anything about this?
I knew the Ultima was a high-end kit car from England, but I didn't know
they had a US distributor. Or that someone was making an EV version.
See http://www.ultimacars.com/home_page_fra.htm
I find it hard to believe whoever is making these has enough experience
with LiIon to make a car the customer will be happy with. Even if I had
the money, I'd have to do a *lot* of investigating before putting it
down on this car.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler wrote:
> So it's not bad enough that people drive around in ICE
> powered cars, now they can run their laptops from a tiny ICE
> generator...
>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31312.html
Can the gas-powered cell phone be far behind?
Geoff Shepard's came up with a clever analogy to expose the absurdity of
those who resist plugging in their car. Which would you prefer, a
gas-powered cell phone, or one you plug in? It seems to have turned
around and bitten us.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmm.. Although they claim that this battery is "now available" it apparently
hasn't been added to the Optima website -- so I've seen no pictures of it yet.
But by the dimensions (and my shaky memory) this seems similar to the
[prototype?] "Baby Optima" that Wayland has in his White Zombie.
This seems like a great choice for a high-voltage AC system, where you need to
pack in a lot of cells. I'm taking a wild guess that it probably won't be much
cheaper than a Group 34 though, so you'll probably be paying more per amount of
lead.
--c.r.
http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/CorpPR/Releases/battery/release626.asp
Quoting "paul compton (RRes-Roth)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I just read a press release on the Johnson Controls website about a new Group
> 51 YelloTop.
>
> Specs quoted were;
>
> Length: 9 15/16"
>
> Width: 5 1/16"
>
> Height: 8 15/16"
>
> Weight: 26 lbs.
>
> CCA: 500
>
> Reserve capacity: 70 minutes
>
> Anyone actually seen one of these?
>
>
> Paul Compton
> www.sciroccoev.co.uk
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This part warmed my heart. Good for you. Keep the faith! It's great to
see other REAL MEN still exist.
damon
and being a male I knew that it's illegal for a male to make an
admission-of-failure U-turn. So I >motored on and made an idiot of myself
instead when, after 6 miles, the Prius had had enough and >shut down.
Fortunately we knew a friend who was even closer to us than a gas station.
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have heard rumors (ie don't quote me on this) that Alltrax (DCP) may
be planning on releasing a Raptor-like controller in the Alltrax
package later this year. The again, I had also heard that they would
be making the DCP DC/DC converter in the Alltrax package in May. Oh
well. my 2c worth
Seth
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 10:21 AM, Chris Tromley wrote:
John Lussmyer wrote:
I'm just wondering what EV Controllers are available if I
ever fry the DCP
in my Sparrow. I'm getting the impression that the choices
for a 156V pack
are getting scarce...
Hi John,
KTA has a few DCP controllers left, but those are the last that I know
of. The Raptor has a 156V limit. I had originally planned on using
one, but I found out Otmar's Zilla Z1K is small enough to prevent me
from doing more sheet metal work to fit the DCP. Water cooling (no
heat
sink) does the trick. The -LV version has a 156V limit. After looking
into it a bit more, I realized the Zilla has far more features, a
programmable 1000 amp max motor and/or battery loop limit, and
reliability handed down from the 2000 amp drag controllers. When you
add a potbox and cooling components for a system equivalent to a DCP,
the cost is only a hundred or so more than a DCP. Quite a deal.
For those who might be mystified as to why 156V is a typical cutoff
point for controllers, I believe it's because that nominal voltage can
go to something just under 200V during charging. 200V is a typical
ceiling for power silicon. Experts, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Chris
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I have already made the arrangements to meet with the Eco-Trekker team
when they pass through Eugene, Or, July 31 - August 1. The Biodiesel
marketing company I am affiliated with will be supplying their support
vehicles with commercially manufactured Biodiesel during their trip through
the state.
At this point, I will be giving Shaun a lift from Eugene to Corvallis (a
distance of about 40 miles) in the EV Rabbit and Pusher combination,
powered by photovoltaically-charged batteries and Biodiesel. In Corvallis,
Shaun will change rides to the Grass Car http://www.grass-car.com and will
make the rest of the run to Seattle with Jacques at the wheel of his
Biodiesel fueled 1982 VW Jetta.
Anyone else across the country who can help by providing a ride, interview
or contact for this event should contact the Eco-Trekker production team.
Let's show the rest of the world that it *is* possible to travel without
petroleum fuels!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been seeing them on E-Bay for a little while:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2419543131
or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3031435436
Just search for optima battery and honda. In some hondas you can't fit
a normal optima in the stock battery location. They use itty bitty
batteries.
-Jeremy
On Friday, June 20, 2003, at 10:53 AM, Christopher Robison wrote:
Hmm.. Although they claim that this battery is "now available" it
apparently
hasn't been added to the Optima website -- so I've seen no pictures of
it yet.
But by the dimensions (and my shaky memory) this seems similar to the
[prototype?] "Baby Optima" that Wayland has in his White Zombie.
This seems like a great choice for a high-voltage AC system, where you
need to
pack in a lot of cells. I'm taking a wild guess that it probably
won't be much
cheaper than a Group 34 though, so you'll probably be paying more per
amount of
lead.
--c.r.
http://www.johnsoncontrols.com/CorpPR/Releases/battery/release626.asp
Quoting "paul compton (RRes-Roth)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I just read a press release on the Johnson Controls website about a
new Group
51 YelloTop.
Specs quoted were;
Length: 9 15/16"
Width: 5 1/16"
Height: 8 15/16"
Weight: 26 lbs.
CCA: 500
Reserve capacity: 70 minutes
Anyone actually seen one of these?
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > This car is listed as a "Solar Electric Vehicle" with a model
> > year of 2004:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=
> > 2420246849
> >
> > Any know anything about this?
>
> I knew the Ultima was a high-end kit car from England, but I didn't know
> they had a US distributor. Or that someone was making an EV version.
> See http://www.ultimacars.com/home_page_fra.htm
>
Judging by the fact that the rolling chassis costs $89,000 and this guy
only wants $91,000 for the complete EV...I'm betting it's a scam.
Especially since he wants ALL of the money up front with delivery due a
year later (plenty time to leave the country).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BOY - does this really remind me of my (once infamous car ) Ion-1 , a
VW chassis kit car
based on the McClaren M6, by Manta Cars, formerly of California. Looks
like the chassis
is a bit shorter. $91,000 is pretty stiff. but I guess if I were
going make these things and try to
make a profit too, ....well you know the rest...... I am always
amaised, that some one, some
group of folks, EV folks, can start this ball roling, and none of us
has heard of them. Or know
of it..... Purhaps, some one has, and will come forward. " Oh yah...
thats so-in-so down in
.xyz California..."
Which segways me into the OTHER subject I wanted to address. The
afordable EV
I have long said that even in the relatively small group round the
Seattle EV Association, that
there is enough talent, to go into EV Production. But over my 24 years
in this I have seen so
many failures. Most I attribute to getting too big for their own
britches too soon. Fancy offices,
secretaries, expense accounts, and too many folks not really committed
to the concept. ( that is to say, folks who would work for NOTHING.....
nearly volunteers ) The second problem is a product that is too
expensive. Too much from scratch, with all the design and testing
required.
( remind you of the EV-1 anybody ?? )
My idea would be on the lines of the company in Canada, who were ( still
are ? ) converting
little Renault Dolphins. I am not a VW beetle fan per-se, but as an
available chassis, well
thought out, and inexpensive, it is hard to beat.
For a while there was an outfit right here in Seattle which tried this.
"Beetles Unlimited" There
main business was to restore VW Bugs, then they got into the EV
idea. There are still some
on the road round here.
But I think the REAL problems, after the first one ( $$ Money $$ ) would
be the great
diversion in ideas All GOOD,, but very hard to get a few hundred
members of the LIST
and the EAA to agree. I can just hear it now. " No, I think a 3
wheeler would be best" .."No, I think NiZn batteries", etc.etc.
Well.... It is a dream I still keep very near to my soul.....
till then........
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://slough1.home.mindspring.com/seva.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks David
Give the guy a break. Looks like he's still working on his web page. Sure is
handsome, though.
http://www.solar-solutions.net/index2.htm
Chris also pointed out the Ultima motors link, which I followed through to the full UK
web site:
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/
Interestingly, Ultima motors wants $89K for a fully-assembled roller. So how does Mr.
eBay get a total of $91K when he adds the motor, LiIon batteries, controller, etc?
Hmmmm.
Ah, wait, I finally found the U.S. kit page order form. It's $27,622 for the standard
Ultima GTR kit. For us EVers, we wouldn't need the radiator ($1172) or fuel tank
($776), so that cuts it down to $25,674
Too bad Lotus doesn't offer a kit form of the Lotus Elise. The U.S. price of a
finished Elise is only $45K or so... or at least it was the last time I checked with
my local Lotus dealer. It's also 400 pounds lighter than the Ultima, owing to the
Aluminum chassis.
http://www.lotuscars.com/press_release.html
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of David Chapman
Sent: Fri 6/20/2003 2:32 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Jorg, click on the ME hyperlink next to the sellers name and E-bay rating.
That will take you to his About Me page and you will find the link from
there. DC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:44 AM
Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
David -
What webpage is that? I didn't see one referenced from the eBay page.
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Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:01:25 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
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Thread-Topic: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Thread-Index: AcM3DzOxD5nYs3sOQMOF7xkAnUOxiQAOjB/Z
From: "Jorg Brown--
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: motor making at home
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:08:04 -0700
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Try this, moving pictures, great for kids.
http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph11e/electricmotor.htm
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: motor making at home
> > I have children 12, 9, 6, and 4. They all love the electric stuff I
> > build and I would enjoy showing them how to build a simple electric
> > motor. Do you have a URL or simple instructions for this? Sounds like
> > fun.
> >
> > damon
>
> I'd recommend http://www.simplemotor.com/ - you can glean a lot from the
> site, or break down and pay for their kits.
>
>
From: "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Laptop powered by micro-ICE
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:17:09 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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I watched the video they prepared for this thing, expecting to see some type
of operating prototype. There was none. It was all hype. So they made some
millimeter sized components out of ceramic...big whoop. They claim
batteries cost 2000 times the energy they can actually carry. What do you
think all this microfabrication is going to cost? If it ran on ethanol,
that would be nice, but the efficiency you get is going to be pathetic
because your going to get 20-30% out of your engine, then 50% out of your
generator, so your system efficiency is down to 10-15%. Direct methanol
fuel cells will easily double that number, without the noise and excess
heat.
Brett
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Chris Tromley
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:49 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Laptop powered by micro-ICE
Mark Fowler wrote:
> So it's not bad enough that people drive around in ICE
> powered cars, now they can run their laptops from a tiny ICE
> generator...
>
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/31312.html
Can the gas-powered cell phone be far behind?
Geoff Shepard's came up with a clever analogy to expose the absurdity of
those who resist plugging in their car. Which would you prefer, a
gas-powered cell phone, or one you plug in? It seems to have turned
around and bitten us.
Chris
From: "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 50mpg from Lotus Elise was RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:27:13 -0700
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Thanks for the link to the Lotus page...those are really nice vehicles.
Their performance is incredible, and perhaps that overshadows the fact that
they get over 50mpg on the highway. Old MGs and sprites were well known for
getting great gas mileage back in the late sixties, without compromising too
much on performance.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jorg Brown
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 10:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Thanks David
Give the guy a break. Looks like he's still working on his web page. Sure
is handsome, though.
http://www.solar-solutions.net/index2.htm
Chris also pointed out the Ultima motors link, which I followed through to
the full UK web site:
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/
Interestingly, Ultima motors wants $89K for a fully-assembled roller. So
how does Mr. eBay get a total of $91K when he adds the motor, LiIon
batteries, controller, etc? Hmmmm.
Ah, wait, I finally found the U.S. kit page order form. It's $27,622 for
the standard Ultima GTR kit. For us EVers, we wouldn't need the radiator
($1172) or fuel tank ($776), so that cuts it down to $25,674
Too bad Lotus doesn't offer a kit form of the Lotus Elise. The U.S. price
of a finished Elise is only $45K or so... or at least it was the last time I
checked with my local Lotus dealer. It's also 400 pounds lighter than the
Ultima, owing to the Aluminum chassis.
http://www.lotuscars.com/press_release.html
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of David Chapman
Sent: Fri 6/20/2003 2:32 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Jorg, click on the ME hyperlink next to the sellers name and E-bay rating.
That will take you to his About Me page and you will find the link from
there. DC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 12:44 AM
Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
David -
What webpage is that? I didn't see one referenced from the eBay page.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 12:24:35 -0700
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Inverter in EV
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Rod Hower wrote:
> I'm wondering if an inline inductor and AC capacitor
> on the output of the inverter will clean up the
> waveform before it goes to the TV plug?
> Has anybody tried this and if so what value
> inductor and capacitor did you use?
Is the output waveform of the inverter a "modified sine wave" (which
really means a square wave with some dead time)? If so, then an Ott
filter can be used to clean up its output.
_ _ _ _ _ _
___| | | |____||_________| | | |____
L1 || | L2
C1 _|_
input ___ C2 output
|
____________________|_______________
There is extensive theory and analysis to optimize the values for a any
particular input/output waveform and power factor. But roughly speaking,
L1 and C1 are resonant at the operating frequency, and L2 and C2 at the
third harmonic.
But, your problem is actually rather complex. The TV assumes a sinewave
input, but in reality it probably has a switching power supply that only
utilizes the very peak of the cycle. Any arrangement that gives it the
right peak voltage will probably work as far as the power supply is
concerned.
So, more likely the problem is that high frequency noise from the
inverter is coming in with the AC power, and the TV has inadequate
filtering to remove it. So, all you may need is an RFI filter.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in - Leonard Cohen
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 13:41:29 -0400
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Laptop powered by micro-ICE
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Cost wise, microfabrication is pretty cheap - once you've worked out the bugs and gone
into mass production. The real problem with these things is that they will never even
aproach the efficiency of a full sized engine. They run into the opposite problem
with heat. A microengine isn't going to have a radiator because it's next to
impossible to keep enough heat in to keep combustion running efficiently. Friction
also becomes a much bigger problem. Think about the surfare area to volume ratio in
you cylinders when you shrink them down to a few mm in diameter. Just pumping fuel
through the inlets is going to have a high resistance that has to be overcome.
No, I'm afraid we're not going to see ICE power laptops any time soon (unless its
plugged into a cigarette lighter in a car). You'll even get some of the researchers
who are working this sort of thing to admit it, but if DARPA is willing to fund it,
who are they to say no to a paycheck?
***Begin previous message***
I watched the video they prepared for this thing, expecting to see some type
of operating prototype. �There was none. �It was all hype. So they made some
millimeter sized components out of ceramic...big whoop. �They claim
batteries cost 2000 times the energy they can actually carry. What do you
think all this microfabrication is going to cost? �If it ran on ethanol,
that would be nice, but the efficiency you get is going to be pathetic
because your going to get 20-30% out of your engine, then 50% out of your
generator, so your system efficiency is down to 10-15%. �Direct methanol
fuel cells will easily double that number, without the noise and excess
heat.
Brett
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Doug Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 'Lectric Lotus? Proposal ideas?
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2003 10:52:05 -0700
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----- Original Message -----=20
From: Doug Martin=20
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 8:46 PM
Subject: 'Lectric Lotus? Proposal ideas?
I'm very uncertain at this point, but I might actually have a line on a =
Lotus Esprit Turbo chassis sans-drivetrain. I'm wondering if there are =
any list subscribers Who are familiar enough with the model to comment =
on its viability as an EV glider. Nothing beyond speculation yet except =
the drool on my shirt from just thinking about it. Right now, I'm just =
doing my homework... and dreaming. If it becomes a reality, I'll =
probably be taking out a loan for some Lithium Ion batteries and one of =
Rich's best chargers.... possibly a Zilla, or maybe even talking to =
Victor about an AC system (hey - I'm dreaming here! don't wake me up...) =
Anyway - If anyone has any thoughts... thanks in advance for sharing =
them! Off-list is fine if you don't want the noise in the group. Thanks =
again!=20
By the way... the Electric Fiat X-1/9 is still going quite well and gets =
between 5 and 10 miles more range with the rear window removed and the =
top off... guess I'm going to have to post a photo to the album soon...
A separate question - Has anyone had any experience writing successful =
proposals for getting charging set up at their workplace? My case would =
only cost ~$250, but might be a hard sell due to ill-informed and stingy =
property-owners my company leases from. Thanks for any input or model =
formats for proposals you can share!=20
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