EV Digest 2868
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Laptop powered by micro-ICE
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: 50mpg from Lotus Elise was RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Coallier, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my politics)
by Aubrey Wilder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Ford Testifies to Stop Ride Sharing
by Aubrey Wilder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my politics)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) RE: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my politics)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: 'Lectric Lotus? Proposal ideas?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Crabb, David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: motor making at home
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: RAV4 still availible?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Porsche EV? (was: RE: RAV4 still availible?)
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: RAV4 still availible
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Porsche EV? (was: RE: RAV4 still availible?)
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: RAV4 still availible?
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Ford Testifies to Stop Ride Sharing (OT)
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Threaded posts (was Ten EV-145's)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Solectria Force EVs use Gel-Tech Batteries
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: hybrid??
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EVLN(Bus Rapid Transit says electric rail is dirty)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Charging at campgrounds
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Rather the wrong direction...
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 12:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Cost wise, microfabrication is pretty cheap - once you've worked out
> the bugs and gone into mass production. The real problem with these
> things is that they will never even aproach the efficiency of a full
> sized engine. They run into the opposite problem with heat. A
> microengine isn't going to have a radiator because it's next to
> impossible to keep enough heat in to keep combustion running
> efficiently. Friction also becomes a much bigger problem. Think
> about the surfare area to volume ratio in you cylinders when you
> shrink them down to a few mm in diameter. Just pumping fuel through
> the inlets is going to have a high resistance that has to be overcome.
> No, I'm afraid we're not going to see ICE power laptops any time
> soon (unless its plugged into a cigarette lighter in a car). You'll
> even get some of the researchers who are working this sort of thing to
> admit it, but if DARPA is willing to fund it, who are they to say no
> to a paycheck?
And what if the injectors become clogged? Changing/checking the oil and
spark plugs would be a pain on something that small also - imagine the
size of the dip-stick or wrench needed. :-D
I know, I know, micro-ICEs wouldn't have these issues, but you can have
a lot of comic-strip like fun coming up with FUD (fear, uncertainty,
doubt) type ideas for this if you start applying car ICE issues to the
micro-ICE.
Lonnie
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.koolkarsltd.co.uk/ - prices are in pounds, I don't have time at the moment
to convert...
Not an Elise, but: http://www.wcmultralite.com/main.html
.Steve Coallier
"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway!"
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jorg Brown
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 10:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
Too bad Lotus doesn't offer a kit form of the Lotus Elise. The U.S. price
of a finished Elise is only $45K or so... or at least it was the last time I
checked with my local Lotus dealer. It's also 400 pounds lighter than the
Ultima, owing to the Aluminum chassis.
http://www.lotuscars.com/press_release.html
jorg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you for the information, but I wasn't misinformed. Both my
registration and title are marked E. A couple of months ago, I mailed in
the proper form and fee to the California DMV. A few weeks later I received
my check back and a letter, which said,
"This letter is in regards to your application for Clean Air Vehicle Decals.
A review of the Air Resources Board requirements indicates that your vehicle
does not qualify for the Clean Air Vehicle Decal.
Only those vehicles that are on the ARB list are qualifying for a Decal at
this time. If you have questions regarding qualifactions requirements,
please call the Air Resources Board at 1-800-242-4450.
For further information on the Clean Air Decal Program visit the web site
ARB. CA GOV. Any application fee you submitted will be refunded.
Thank you for your interest in our Clean Air Vehicle Decal Program.
Sincerely,
Cory James Shipley-Brown, Manager
Special Processing Unit"
I am intending to call and get this cleared up once my master's thesis is
finished. All I'm saying is that for a state supposedly so concerned with
air quality, they're not making this easy!
Aubrey
'80 Jet Electrica
> Conversions are allowed in the HOV lanes if they have a
> HOV sticker. To get the sticker, the conversion EV has
> to be registered as 'E' for Electric, and the proper
> form with the fee has to be submitted.
> ...
> This 'conversions not allowed in the HOV lane' keeps
> coming up again and again. It is going to be a mis-
> conception we will have correct over and over again.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Everything on BBSpot is fake. But funny!
:)
Aubrey
> Is this serious? Lawrence Rhodes......Gotta be a spoof....
> http://www.bbspot.com/News/2002/08/ride_sharing.html
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michael Hurley wrote:
There's also the fact that some of us like to date every now and
again. ;-) It's nice to be able to pick her up in your own nifty EV,
rather than an ICE.
When my wife and I were dating, I picked her up on our 2nd date in my
ComutaVan EV. She married me anyway :-)
I'm all for smaller vehicles. SUVs and such are pointless as commuter
vehicles. But I also think that a single-seat vehicle is destined to
be nothing but a niche-market vehicle, a second car. They will never
be accepted as main-stream. Many people (myself included) can't
afford to own two vehicles. As I live in an apartment, I'm not sure I
can even keep two cars easily. On a daily commuter basis, I drive
alone it's true, but I do go out with friends pretty regularly. We
usually carpool to save on parking costs. This would be impossible in
a Sparrow, and motorcycle parking is not common around here. To me
two seats are the minimum number for a primary vehicle.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
- Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aubrey,
If your vehicle is a Jet conversion, this is a professional conversion, by
Jet Industries, and should already be in the DMV list. All of the Jet
Industries conversions were made on Plymouth cars
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/index2.html#Dodge/Plymouth).
Also, make certain you can drive freeway speeds. Early on some conversions
got hov stickers yet could barely drive 55mph.
We're behind you getting the Jet vehicles added to the list
(http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm).
-Ed Thorpe
driving HOV in Sparrow because its a motorcycle
-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey Wilder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:19 AM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my politics)
Thank you for the information, but I wasn't misinformed. Both my
registration and title are marked E. A couple of months ago, I mailed in
the proper form and fee to the California DMV. A few weeks later I received
my check back and a letter, which said,
"This letter is in regards to your application for Clean Air Vehicle Decals.
A review of the Air Resources Board requirements indicates that your vehicle
does not qualify for the Clean Air Vehicle Decal.
Only those vehicles that are on the ARB list are qualifying for a Decal at
this time. If you have questions regarding qualifactions requirements,
please call the Air Resources Board at 1-800-242-4450.
For further information on the Clean Air Decal Program visit the web site
ARB. CA GOV. Any application fee you submitted will be refunded.
Thank you for your interest in our Clean Air Vehicle Decal Program.
Sincerely,
Cory James Shipley-Brown, Manager
Special Processing Unit"
I am intending to call and get this cleared up once my master's thesis is
finished. All I'm saying is that for a state supposedly so concerned with
air quality, they're not making this easy!
Aubrey
'80 Jet Electrica
> Conversions are allowed in the HOV lanes if they have a
> HOV sticker. To get the sticker, the conversion EV has
> to be registered as 'E' for Electric, and the proper
> form with the fee has to be submitted.
> ...
> This 'conversions not allowed in the HOV lane' keeps
> coming up again and again. It is going to be a mis-
> conception we will have correct over and over again.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Correction - jumped too soon.
The 007 was from Plymouth.
The Electrica is from Ford
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/index3.html#Ford/Mercury)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Thorpe
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:36 AM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my politics)
Aubrey,
If your vehicle is a Jet conversion, this is a professional conversion, by
Jet Industries, and should already be in the DMV list. All of the Jet
Industries conversions were made on Plymouth cars
(http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/index2.html#Dodge/Plymouth).
Also, make certain you can drive freeway speeds. Early on some conversions
got hov stickers yet could barely drive 55mph.
We're behind you getting the Jet vehicles added to the list
(http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm).
-Ed Thorpe
driving HOV in Sparrow because its a motorcycle
-----Original Message-----
From: Aubrey Wilder [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:19 AM
To: EV List
Subject: Re: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my politics)
Thank you for the information, but I wasn't misinformed. Both my
registration and title are marked E. A couple of months ago, I mailed in
the proper form and fee to the California DMV. A few weeks later I received
my check back and a letter, which said,
"This letter is in regards to your application for Clean Air Vehicle Decals.
A review of the Air Resources Board requirements indicates that your vehicle
does not qualify for the Clean Air Vehicle Decal.
Only those vehicles that are on the ARB list are qualifying for a Decal at
this time. If you have questions regarding qualifactions requirements,
please call the Air Resources Board at 1-800-242-4450.
For further information on the Clean Air Decal Program visit the web site
ARB. CA GOV. Any application fee you submitted will be refunded.
Thank you for your interest in our Clean Air Vehicle Decal Program.
Sincerely,
Cory James Shipley-Brown, Manager
Special Processing Unit"
I am intending to call and get this cleared up once my master's thesis is
finished. All I'm saying is that for a state supposedly so concerned with
air quality, they're not making this easy!
Aubrey
'80 Jet Electrica
> Conversions are allowed in the HOV lanes if they have a
> HOV sticker. To get the sticker, the conversion EV has
> to be registered as 'E' for Electric, and the proper
> form with the fee has to be submitted.
> ...
> This 'conversions not allowed in the HOV lane' keeps
> coming up again and again. It is going to be a mis-
> conception we will have correct over and over again.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Martin wrote:
> I'm very uncertain at this point, but I might actually have a
> line on a Lotus Esprit Turbo chassis sans-drivetrain. I'm
> wondering if there are any list subscribers Who are familiar
> enough with the model to comment on its viability as an EV
> glider.
Hi Doug,
About a year ago I think Arthur Welch was working on an Esprit. Arthur,
are you still on the list? If not, a search in the archives might turn
up an email address. I have a response to one of his posts dated
5/20/02.
If my feeble memory is correct, he was going to use NiCads. I'm
stretching here, but I believe he found his Volvo gearbox was not the
better choice of available gearboxes. That's all I've got.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like, in the ad, they just used pictures from the Ultima website.
I wonder if they even had a first one built.
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/pics/gtr24.jpg
Not that that car doesnt have a very low weight and might be a nice EV.
It holds atleast a smallblck chevy.. there is lots of room the in engine
bay.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:12 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
>
>
> Need to read closely.
>
> "Vehicle Condition
> New. Built-to-order."
>
> Which means they are trying to use ebay to sell orders on an
> unbuilt car.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Levine Family
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 6/19/03 11:28 PM
> Subject: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
>
> This car is listed as a "Solar Electric Vehicle" with a model year of
> 2004:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=
> 2420246849
>
> Any know anything about this?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some pics of some neat old motors that you could maybe copy.
http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyApparatus/Titlepage/Electric_Motors.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: motor making at home
> > I have children 12, 9, 6, and 4. They all love the electric stuff I
> > build and I would enjoy showing them how to build a simple electric
> > motor. Do you have a URL or simple instructions for this? Sounds like
> > fun.
> >
> > damon
>
> I'd recommend http://www.simplemotor.com/ - you can glean a lot from the
> site, or break down and pay for their kits.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Crabb wrote:
> Looks like, in the ad, they just used pictures from the
> Ultima website.
>
> I wonder if they even had a first one built.
>
> http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/gtr/pics/gtr24.jpg
>
>
> Not that that car doesnt have a very low weight and might be a
> nice EV. It holds atleast a smallblck chevy.. there is lots of
> room the in engine bay.
Hi David,
I have no doubt the Ultima could make a killer EV. But it is designed
for an ICE. You'd be relying on the converter's ability to adapt it to
electric drive. I doubt the ability of anyone who claims to build a
LiIon-powered EV unless they have LOTS of experience with LiIon or money
to burn (theirs) while learning.
The proposed EV is to use a DC motor. The folks experimenting with
Thundersky LiIons have already determined AC is the way to go to keep
the amp draws manageable. It smells like the converter-to-be is in over
his head.
Now give me an Ultima kit, a DC motor or two and some AGMs. Mighty
tasty.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Christopher Zach" <
> That being said I've pretty much stopped using the Porsches now that I
have
> the Prizm running. Just passed 4,000 miles on the odometer, which means I
> have put 3k miles on the car since I got it.
That's because your EV is more fun to drive. Time to replace the motors in
these Porsches with some 9 inch electrics .
Nothing upsets Porsche fans more than telling them your going to replace the
engine with an electric motor.
> 40 mile range is enough to pretty much do anything I need. I would hardly
> consider a 100 mile range to be "limiting".
>
> Chris
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "amadare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:34 AM
> Subject: RE: RAV4 still availible?
>
>
> > If you look closely at some more details of the article you will see
> > them metion
> >
> > "That does not necessarily mean the all-electric car concept
> > is bound for the junkyard - at least in California.
> >
> > The state is mandating that 2 percent of cars sold there in
> > 2003 be pure, battery-operated electric cars."
> >
> > That mandate was revoked at least a month or more ago. So he obviously
> > hasn't done any recent research for this article. It probably took him
> > 6 months to write the outdated piece.
> >
> > Bobby
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:57 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RAV4 still availible?
> > >
> > >
> > > Hm. Does this mean Toyota is selling the RAV4 EV again? I thought they
> > > totally dropped it...
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:15 AM
> > > Subject: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my politics)-long
> > >
> > >
> > > > Toyota has just introduced the $43,000 RAV4 EV, the first
> > > > compact sport utility vehicle for the retail market fueled
> > > > by household current.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I was getting ready to do my Porsche 924 I talked to Gary Flow who had
done one with the Twin 8s belted directly to
the axles and he wasn't so happy with it .I kept the tranny and have a 9 "
net gain in the front. That was before Otmar's zilla and series parallel
shifting . There is a lot of room in the back were gas tank was I got 10 12v
31's and now have an easy 10 golfcart batteries there. With motors back
there there wouldn;t be the room for these bats . This is a heavy car but I
realy like it , it handels very well and dose good at hi speeds ( cuts
through the air ) on 240 v I remember seeing 60 mph on 60 amps with those
12v 31's (75lbs each ) it was around 3900 lbs .
> Do I remember correctly that one of your Porsches, maybe a 944, had a
> dead engine? A 944 makes a pretty nice EV. Twin 8s belted directly to
> the axles (you can pitch the trans and driveshaft), driven by Otmar's
> automatic series-parallel shifting Zilla. That would be very sweet.
> Wouldn't it be nice to give it a new, high-powered, no-exhaust life? Or
> pass it on to someone who can?
>
> For that matter, I keep forgetting to get more info on the mid-60's
> Porsche 912 that an acquaintance of mine wants to sell. I think it's in
> fine shape. He wants around $3500 IIRC. Air-cooled and no smog
> controls - yeesh! This is a car that *needs* to be converted. It's in
> the Philadelphia suburbs. If anyone's interested, please contact me
> off-list.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>
> The more contigous conductive public EV charging we have,
> the more encentive for EV use. It may just be, that EV
> converters may start up again.
>
> Return to the days of GreenWheels, EcoElectric, and many others.
>
I am intrested in info(storys) on any small EV conversion business, How they
started , what they did or are doing to stay alive ect.
Here in Florida the major EV manufacturer is out mowing lawns .
Steve Clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I was getting ready to do my Porsche 924 I talked to Gary Flow who had
done one with the Twin 8s belted directly to
the axles and he wasn't so happy with it (though I should keep the tranny)
.I kept the tranny and have a 9 "
net gain in the front. That was before Otmar's zilla and series parallel
shifting . There is a lot of room in the back were gas tank was I got 10 12v
31's and now have an easy 10 golfcart batteries there. With motors back
there there wouldn;t be the room for these bats . This is a heavy car but I
realy like it , it handels very well and dose good at hi speeds ( cuts
through the air ) on 240 v I remember seeing 60 mph on 60 amps with those
12v 31's (75lbs each ) it was around 3900 lbs .
> Do I remember correctly that one of your Porsches, maybe a 944, had a
> dead engine? A 944 makes a pretty nice EV. Twin 8s belted directly to
> the axles (you can pitch the trans and driveshaft), driven by Otmar's
> automatic series-parallel shifting Zilla. That would be very sweet.
> Wouldn't it be nice to give it a new, high-powered, no-exhaust life? Or
> pass it on to someone who can?
>
> For that matter, I keep forgetting to get more info on the mid-60's
> Porsche 912 that an acquaintance of mine wants to sell. I think it's in
> fine shape. He wants around $3500 IIRC. Air-cooled and no smog
> controls - yeesh! This is a car that *needs* to be converted. It's in
> the Philadelphia suburbs. If anyone's interested, please contact me
> off-list.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, the definition of fun is a relative one. The Prizm will not take
turns, brake, or accelerate like the 911L. But it's a nice eco-car to drive,
and in this day and age I like that sort of thing.
Besides it's a pain getting a carburated engine underway.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: RAV4 still availible?
>
> From: "Christopher Zach" <
>
> > That being said I've pretty much stopped using the Porsches now that I
> have
> > the Prizm running. Just passed 4,000 miles on the odometer, which means
I
> > have put 3k miles on the car since I got it.
>
> That's because your EV is more fun to drive. Time to replace the motors in
> these Porsches with some 9 inch electrics .
> Nothing upsets Porsche fans more than telling them your going to replace
the
> engine with an electric motor.
>
> > 40 mile range is enough to pretty much do anything I need. I would
hardly
> > consider a 100 mile range to be "limiting".
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "amadare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:34 AM
> > Subject: RE: RAV4 still availible?
> >
> >
> > > If you look closely at some more details of the article you will see
> > > them metion
> > >
> > > "That does not necessarily mean the all-electric car concept
> > > is bound for the junkyard - at least in California.
> > >
> > > The state is mandating that 2 percent of cars sold there in
> > > 2003 be pure, battery-operated electric cars."
> > >
> > > That mandate was revoked at least a month or more ago. So he
obviously
> > > hasn't done any recent research for this article. It probably took
him
> > > 6 months to write the outdated piece.
> > >
> > > Bobby
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Zach
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 9:57 AM
> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Subject: RAV4 still availible?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hm. Does this mean Toyota is selling the RAV4 EV again? I thought
they
> > > > totally dropped it...
> > > >
> > > > Chris
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Bruce EVangel Parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 10:15 AM
> > > > Subject: EVLN(EVs pushed into the slow lane, I drive my
politics)-long
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Toyota has just introduced the $43,000 RAV4 EV, the first
> > > > > compact sport utility vehicle for the retail market fueled
> > > > > by household current.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> It's also 400 pounds lighter than the Ultima, owing to the Aluminium
chassis.
It's 400 pounds lighter because it's quite a bit smaller and has the
lightweight Rover K series engine and box rather than a small block Chevy and Porsche
G50. The prototype Elise with steel backbone was lighter. Lotus went with the
Aluminium chassis (made by HydroAluminium) because it was cheaper.
The original Ultima Mk2 (MK1 was prototype with problems) was Lee Noble's
attempt at a Group C (Le Mans prototype) car for the road. That he succeeded is a
tribute to his talents. He went on to dominate Kit Car racing for three
years, before taking a break from racing to redevelop the spacecraft Lotus 15
replica. The rather slab sided Mk2 was restyled into the current Mk3 and the Noble
P4 appeared, with moulds taken from one of the six original 1967 Ferrari
P4/P440's (In my opinion, the most beautiful sports racing prototype ever built).
The was also the Midtec Spyder, very much more like an Elise than the Ultima.
Lee seems to lose interest once a project is successful and has made it's
impact on the market and all of the previous projects have been sold off. Currently
he is producing the Noble M12.
Ultima's and various derivatives have been run at Le Mans and McLaren built
their F1 (styling) prototypes around Ultima chassis.
Paul Compton
BVS technical officer www.bvs.org.uk
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First of all, I'd like to point out that this is totally off topic.
Second of all, I'd like to point out that as a artist and publisher of
music, I _encourage_ file sharing - and many, many musicians and artists
agree with me. Musicians are forced into very undesirable contracts in order
to get their art distributed - the only people getting rich are the labels,
which for the most part do not deserve the money.
So, consider carefully before you bash those that use peer-to-peer file
sharing. You're supporting the status quo, and the status quo ain't all that
great for the people who actually make the music.
S.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 1:42 AM
Subject: RE: Ford Testifies to Stop Ride Sharing (OT)
> Of course it's a spoof. If you read it carefully, it's obviously some
idiot
> trying to make an analogy to file sharing in order to justify their piracy
> habit.
>
> Yet another intellectual property thief showing how stupid they really
are!
>
> .Steven Coallier
> "Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway!"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:45 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Ford Testifies to Stop Ride Sharing
>
>
> Is this serious? Lawrence Rhodes......Gotta be a spoof....
> http://www.bbspot.com/News/2002/08/ride_sharing.html
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Jun 2003 at 10:33, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Then all of your current (hundreds of amps) has to go through the
> stainless steel bolt. The bolt has a fairly high resistance so you'll
> end up with some voltage drop there and the bolt will heat up.
True, but it isn't very much bolt -- what, maybe 20-25mm? And most of it is
in contact with the lead post. The portion between the top of the post and
the lug could be as short as 1mm. Would it really have that much
resistance?
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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--- Begin Message ---
Message I received on Force EV battery replacements:
-[edited]
From: Will Beckett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: - Fri, Jun 20 2003 7:11:05 AM 0700
[...] Force batteries are group 27 from GelTech
[ http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22Gel-Tech%22 ]
and I got them from [our local a US Battery dealer:
Jim Ramos 3488 Arden Road, Hayward CA 94545
tel 510 259-1150, fax 510 259-1160 ].
They have been working very well.
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Jun 2003 at 13:40, Chris Tromley wrote:
> We're really that close - and that far away - from having EVs available
> to the public.
ATT R&D also claims to also be that close and that far away. For all that,
they're still saying on their website that they'll launch the Parade (top
speed 110km/h) at around $20k in 2005. I've heard that a version with
Lithium Ion batteries will go for around $25k. (If they actually build it.)
http://www.attrd.com/
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- Begin Message ---
It takes a government with balls to mandate what's right for all.
Not debate, not vote, just mandate whether joe average likes it
or not. Sometimes it's necessary and doesn't mean totalitarian gov't.
Like taxes - no one likes them but try to vote out govt. which
keeps taxing people. Every gov't will and makes it a law, vote
or no vote.
If you tell me things don't work that way, OK, waiting for
catastrophe (what we're doing now) is another option.
Take your pick.
As Nike said, just do it. Yet, opposite side of freedom country -
you're free to debate to death and free to do nothing.
Someone will pay for it later. Joe Average won't do anything unless
not doing affects HIS pocket and convenience TODAY. Not even
his children tomorrow. HIS, TODAY. Unfortunate but so obvious,
why people afraid to admit it? Too true?
Victor
Ryan Fulcher wrote:
>
> We'll probably have to wait for a catastrophe, unfortunently, I expect
> to experience one within the next 10 years.
>
> The "Bright" side of globle warming and less ozone is:
> More UV radiation reaching the surface, so my PV panels should
> output more ane more energy, no? Funny, yet I'm not laughing.
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
> Mark Thomasson wrote:
>
> > I support spirit of your arguments, but if we want to build a credible
> > financial case for sustainable energy and transportation, we must consider
> > the time value of money. Your two cases below are identical at 4% cost of
> > capital. At 10% cost of capital, the present worth of the BEV case is twice
> > as expensive as the ICE case. The financial analysis just doesn't give us a
> > slam-dunk. But how can we convince people of the value of the environmental
> > and energy independence arguments, when many people are apparently still
> > waiting for scientific proof that seatbelts save lives and that tobacco
> > cause cancer? Perhaps the EV movement needs an MLK or JFK type person to
> > energize the masses on these issues? Or will a global catastrophe be
> > necessary to turn things around? Mark T.
> >
> >>Here's how I see it, Spend $100,000 on a big PV or Wind setup.
> >>Spend $20,000 for an EV. Spend $1000 every 2 years for new batteries.
> >>Over my 100 year lifespan that's $170,000, then my children will spend
> >>$50,000 for their entire lifetime. Plus I can probably heat my house,
> >>keep my food cold, light my patio all for nothing.
> >>
> >>Or, I could buy a $20,000 ICE car each 10 years.
> >>Put fuel/oil into them at 52 weeks, 500miles/weeks, 20mpg, $2/gal=$2600
> >>each year for fuel. and about 52,000lbs of smog. (at $5/gal = $6500)
> >>That's $460,000 over the course of my lifetime, and nothing to show
> >>for it in the end, except for the 5,200,000lbs of pollution and some
> >>130,000 gallons of for ever used up fossil fuel.
> >>
> >>BEV = <200K and 50K for each generation after, no pollution
> >>ICE = >500K, nothing for kids but 5 million lbs of crap in the air.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>
> When my wife and I were dating, I picked her up on our 2nd date in my
> ComutaVan EV. She married me anyway :-)
What would happen if you'd do it on your first date? :=)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> My favorite feature of this car is how the color changes depending on what
> angle you photograph it from.
>
>
I did notice that the wheels and angle did change. I suspect they have good
skills in Photo Shop or 4 cars. Lawrence Rhodes......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Jun 2003 at 11:25, John Lussmyer wrote:
> Hmm, most commuters I know ride alone.
True.
Still, I always thought Corbin made a mistake in making the Sparrow a one-
passenger vehicle. That made it ideal for the HOV lanes in California, but
what about the rest of the country? What do you do when you want to go to
lunch with a co-worker, or out to dinner with your partner at home? There's
no room to have stuff sitting on the seat beside you, no way to show the car
off for your friends (other than handing them the keys). And unlike a
"real" motorcycle there's no tandem ability.
IMO, the Tango has the right idea. It's a little unusual, though, and I
think side by side seating for two is an absolute minimum.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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--- Begin Message ---
2138 lbs is a little heavy for a kit car. You could do 1500 with a VW based
glider and weigh that with the batteries installed..Lawrence Rhodes....
----------------------------------------------------
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 7:34 AM
Subject: RE: Li-ion car on eBay: real or vapor?
> The Levine Family wrote:
>
> > This car is listed as a "Solar Electric Vehicle" with a model
> > year of 2004:
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=
> > 2420246849
> >
> > Any know anything about this?
>
> I knew the Ultima was a high-end kit car from England, but I didn't know
> they had a US distributor. Or that someone was making an EV version.
> See http://www.ultimacars.com/home_page_fra.htm
>
> I find it hard to believe whoever is making these has enough experience
> with LiIon to make a car the customer will be happy with. Even if I had
> the money, I'd have to do a *lot* of investigating before putting it
> down on this car.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aaron Birenboim wrote:
>
> The main requirement I have for a commuting vehicle is heat
> and air conditioning. (I hate not being able to type AC, since
> on that list it might be alternating current...)
Type "A/C" this is more common for air conditioners.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Tromley wrote:
>
> I find it hard to believe whoever is making these has enough experience
> with LiIon to make a car the customer will be happy with. Even if I had
> the money, I'd have to do a *lot* of investigating before putting it
> down on this car.
$5k to replace LiIon pack which provides 150 miles sporty range?
Is this a zillion of AA sized cells pack?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 Jun 2003 at 15:55, Tom Hudson wrote:
> The main issue was 120 vs. 240V power. As far as I can tell, most
> campgrounds only have 120V outlets for RVs.
But they're big ones -- 30 amps. That's a solid 3.6kw! To use them you
could employ:
- Big autotransformer (unfortunately it's heavy, though)
- Dual voltage charger -- Rich's PFC is one, but not isolated; I believe
there's only one other readily available (K&W BC-250, which IS isolated.
But of course neither one of those chargers knows how to talk to our Brusa
amp hour counter interface, which Tom and I need for our nicads.
Hmm, I wonder if our Brusa chargers can handle DC input. Victor, what do
you know about this? Brusa NLG4? NLG5? Can they deal with DC in? And
Rich, can a PFC take 120 volts AC at 30 amps and boost it to, say, 340 volts
DC?
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Getting decent battery life seems to be so hard that instead of making
better batteries, they're making smaller engines:
http://www.newscentre.bham.ac.uk/release.htm?releaseId=580&latest=6
"These micro-engines will be much more energy efficient than standard
batteries. It takes 2000 times more energy to manufacture a battery than
the battery dispenses while it is being used. Soon everyone will be able
to charge their mobile phones instantly using a shot of cigarette lighter
fuel instead of having to find a socket for a charger and wait while the
phone charges up".
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we
are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic
and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.
-Theodore Roosevelt, 26th US President (1858-1919)
--- End Message ---
