EV Digest 2882
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Power of DC this Sunday June 29
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) First car by Ferdenand Porsche
by "Andrea Bachus Kohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: solar on car
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) RE: Datsun 240Z Battery Placement Musings (a bit lengthly)
by "Paschke, Stephen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Electric Motorcycle Glider
by "BORTEL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: solar on car
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) RE: LiIon conclusions
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: CalCars Plan
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Questions about Russco Chargers
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery Cycler project
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: CalCars Plan
by =?iso-8859-1?q?James=20Rice?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Driving to Power of DC.
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Zapi control codes
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Driving to Power of DC.
by Alex Karahalios <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Driving to Power of DC.
by "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Questions about Russco Chargers
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: CalCars Seeks Sponsors for Plug-In Hybrid Prototypes
by "Bryan Avery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: First car by Ferdenand Porsche
by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Order for YTs in Portland, OR may happen soon
by John Bryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Bad Boy Charger Usage
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) RE: solar on car
by "Coallier, Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Order for YTs in Portland, OR may happen soon
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Mike the Menace strikes again
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) I'm Looking for a 36 Volt Charger
by ItalysBadBoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) straight cut gears are noisy
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EV Album
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Tilley and his Delorean
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
FIRE UP FOR POWER OF DC!
Althought the Piranha has only been out of the shop for 2 weeks now, we're
better than ever. A couple of test and tune sessions complete. Many new
things. CAN'T WAIT!
I'm looking of forward to seeing both Orange Juice and Bad Amplitude, head to
head I hope? Should be come exciting racing! Those West Coast guys don't have
all the fun....
See you all there.
Darin Gilbert
Bad Fish Racing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some of you may already know this, but I was watching the History channel's
"Automobiles" and they took a look at the VW Beetle's history. In the
report it obviously talked about Ferdenand Porsche, designer of the original
Beetle design.
However, one of his first jobs was driving and designing for the Austro
Daimler company around the turn of the century. It said the first car he
built was in 1900. It was an electric car with in-hub electric motors!
I can just seem him now looking at GM's Hy-wire concept car, he would say
something equivalent to "been there, done that". Sometimes we think we are
being so cutting edge only to find out the idea and concept has been done
before. If F. Porsche came up with it over 100 years ago, at least we
appear to be on the right track.
I wonder what concept he would come up with today that in another 103 years,
designers would be incorporating into their cars.
Marc Kohler
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I had 4 M75 Siemens 48 watt PV panels mounted on the roof of my Beetle
for atleast two years while working only 5 miles from home.
This gave me 5 miles more range after being tilted up at the sun for 8
hours and the Bug weighs 2700 pounds with 200 pound driver.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:23:52 -0700 Felix Kramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Ed
> Here's the reply to your comments from the fellow involved with
> www.itee.uq.edu.au/~serg/UltraCommuter
>
> If your EV is a 550kg (1200lb) low-drag design with an electric
> energy
> consumption of ~50Wh/km in real driving conditions, then the math
> works out
> quite favourably.
>
> In Brisbane, Qld, Australia, where the vehicle will be used, the
> average daily
> solar insolation on a horizontal plane is 18MJ per square metre.
> Accounting
> for array area (2.5 square metres), array efficiency (15%), charger
> efficiency
> (95%) and battery efficiency (90%) gives you approx 1.6kWh useful
> energy in
> the
> battery, per day. With energy consumption of 50Wh/km, this equates
> to ~30km
> solar-powered range per day, or ~12,000km annually.
>
> This only represents the range potential of course - the actual
> solar range
> available depends on people's driving patterns, where they park and
> how long
> they are parked for.
>
> The comment about the solar array being additionally good for
> trickle charging
> batteries, or even powering a low-energy HVAC system, is also quite
> pertinent.
>
> My only other comment would be that we are not making any claims
> about the
> commercial potential of this concept - only its technical potential.
>
>
> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: RE: More prototype PHEVs means cheaper unit costs
> >Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:47:25 -0700
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
> >Content-Type: text/plain;
> > charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> >ge-----
> >Felix Kramer wrote:
> > >
> > > The latest:
> > > Here's a design I heard about just today, from the Sustainable
> Energy
> > > Research Group, University of Queensland, Brisbane Australia:
> plug-in,
> > > natural gas engine, yet light enough (Hypercar-style) to mostly
> run from
> > > rooftop solar panels!
> >
> >
> >Careful about the claims of solar on an EV for gaining distance.
> They claim
> >to be able to put 2.5 square meters (= ~27 square feet), which is a
> little
> >more than 5'x5'. Solar cells are less than 15% efficient, with sun
> shinning
> >perpendicular to the cell. Flexible solar panels rate about 5-6
> watt-hour/sq
> >ft , making it 135-162 watts/hour. Extremely efficient EVs consume
> 150
> >watts/mile at freeway speed. Eight hours of sitting in direct
> sunlight will
> >only allow the EV to drive 8 freeway miles, roughly. Fixed panels
> might
> >generate a bit more, but this is a drop in the bucket compared to
> the
> >real-world demands for electrical power.
> >
> >Solar may work for a short-range, low-speed EV, for trickle
> charging, but
> >let's get away from portable solar being a valid charging source.
> The TdS
> >pickup was only able to make a statement by carrying a portable
> large array
> >disassembled in the back. Solar works best for trickle charging an
> aux 12v
> >battery and on large stationary charging locations.
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
> Felix Kramer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Founder California Cars Initiative
> http://www.calcars.org
> PO Box 61222 Palo Alto, CA 94306
> cell 650.520.5555 voice 650.599.9992
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>
>
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Get a shock tower stiffening bar. It helps a lot. I've got a 74 260z. The
car is a little front heavy and it shows slightly in corners. I would lean
towards a more even distribution of the batteries. I am planning a body kit
for mine, a Ferrari 250GT replica with a one piece fiberglass front end and
a convertible modification. That should lighten it up a little.
If your car feels flexy you can get frame stiffeners for a z.
Steve Paschke
> ----------
> From: Seth Murray
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 12:40 PM
> To: EV List
> Subject: Datsun 240Z Battery Placement Musings (a bit lengthly)
>
> Hi All (and especially our local Datsun expert, Plasma Boy, if you're
> around) -
>
> Well, I am in the middle of building and rebuilding the suspension,
> body, interior, and motor adapter of my 1972 Datsun 240Z. Time has
> come for me to start building the battery boxes and I thought I'd run
> my ideas by the list's cumulative knowledge before I start fabricating.
> I will be using 16 G34 Optima Yellowtops, with with either 10 in the
> front and 6 in the rear, or 9 and 7 (leaning towards 10 and 6). The Z
> car had a large heavy 6 cylinder engine up front which is why I am
> planning on so much more weight up there. I removed around 500 pounds
> up front and a bit under 200 in the rear. Plans:
>
> Rear: I have two choices for battery placement, each with their own
> advantage. My Z was a 2-seater (they made a 2+2 as well) so there is
> space right behind the seats, but it is up fairly high and I am
> somewhat concerned about having that much weight directly behind me in
> the event of an accident. The other location is directly behind the
> rear suspension but sunk into the rear 'deck' of the car, hanging down
> where the gas tank and spare tire were. My concern here is that I
> would be placing weight behind the rear axle; however, the gas tank,
> spare tire, and muffler were all back there originally. I think I
> prefer this second location because the weight is lower (helps the ol'
> CG) and aesthetically it is marvelous. Once I roll the carpet down
> over the batteries there will be no way to tell they are there! The
> rear end will be around 100 pounds over stock.
>
> Front: Spacewise, I could pull a Victor up here (: and load 'er up
> with Optimas. However I want this car to handle well so weight is a an
> important factor. Viewed from above, the engine bay is basically a
> large rectangle (longer side is front to back) made by a sub-frame rail
> on each side, the radiator mounts in the front, and the firewall in the
> back. The motor will occupy the central 9.5" from the firewall forward
> about half way. This leaves me room for 6 batteries sunk down between
> the frame rails ahead of the motor and then 4 batteries in a rack above
> the motor. This should distribute the weight well and keep it fairly
> low and centered, while still allowing a glimpse at the motor so the
> guys can see what makes 'er go. The front weight will be 150-200
> pounds over stock.
>
> Any thoughts, suggestions, "you-are-crazy"s are welcome.
>
> I will upload some photos to my site this evening. Thanks,
>
> Seth
>
> --
> QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION (and, for Lawrence) HELL, QUESTION
> EXTERNAL COMBUSTION
>
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This looks like a good canidate to become electric.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2420781666&category=34284
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
Excellent use - drive 5 miles, use about 1.5kw electricity, and after 8
hours, with proper orientation, regain 1.5kw of electricity. Good
short-range solution. Cannot find sizing on the M75, but the SP75 panels are
about 4'x1.75'. So that's 28sf of solar panels, which matches with my
initial calculations.
Felix,
5 mile / 1.5kw range extension (under ideal conditions) will not get you far
if the production vehicle is designed for 60 or 80 or more miles per charge
range. For a solar car, light weight and extremely efficient (which means
not very practical for the average person), this might be enough, but I
thought the goal of CalCars was to produce a vehicle for the more typical
driver.
-Ed
billglic wrote:
Hi All,
I had 4 M75 Siemens 48 watt PV panels mounted on the roof of my Beetle
for atleast two years while working only 5 miles from home.
This gave me 5 miles more range after being tilted up at the sun for 8
hours and the Bug weighs 2700 pounds with 200 pound driver.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:23:52 -0700 Felix Kramer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Ed
> Here's the reply to your comments from the fellow involved with
> www.itee.uq.edu.au/~serg/UltraCommuter
>
> If your EV is a 550kg (1200lb) low-drag design with an electric
> energy consumption of ~50Wh/km in real driving conditions, then the
> math works out quite favourably.
>
> In Brisbane, Qld, Australia, where the vehicle will be used, the
> average daily solar insolation on a horizontal plane is 18MJ per
> square metre. Accounting for array area (2.5 square metres), array
> efficiency (15%), charger efficiency (95%) and battery efficiency
> (90%) gives you approx 1.6kWh useful energy in the battery, per day.
> With energy consumption of 50Wh/km, this equates to ~30km
> solar-powered range per day, or ~12,000km annually.
>
...
>
>
>ethorpe wrote:
> >
> > Careful about the claims of solar on an EV for gaining distance.
> > They claim to be able to put 2.5 square meters (= ~27 square feet),
> > which is a little more than 5'x5'. Solar cells are less than 15%
> > efficient, with sun shinning perpendicular to the cell. Flexible solar
> > panels rate about 5-6 watt-hour/sq ft , making it 135-162 watts/hour.
> > Extremely efficient EVs consume 150 watts/mile at freeway speed. Eight
> > hours of sitting in direct sunlight will only allow the EV to drive 8
> > freeway miles, roughly. Fixed panels might generate a bit more, but
> > this is a drop in the bucket compared to the real-world demands for
> > electrical power.
> >
> > Solar may work for a short-range, low-speed EV, for trickle charging,
> > but let's get away from portable solar being a valid charging source.
> > The TdS pickup was only able to make a statement by carrying a portable
> > large array disassembled in the back. Solar works best for trickle
> > charging an aux 12v battery and on large stationary charging locations.>
>
> >
> >Felix Kramer wrote:
> > >
> > > The latest:
> > > Here's a design I heard about just today, from the Sustainable
> > > Energy Research Group, University of Queensland, Brisbane Australia:
> > > plug-in, natural gas engine, yet light enough (Hypercar-style) to
mostly
> > > run from rooftop solar panels!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
See below.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 3:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: LiIon conclusions
<< snip >>
> Of course a given manufacturer chooses what they think is acceptable
> compromise. For HV (hi voltage) cars low power cells seem OK.
>
> For LV cars, higher power ones would be better choice.
<< snip >>
That is true only if you are also changing the size of the pack at the same
time.
If you take 200 cells and wire them all in series for the "high" voltage
pack and then you pull "X" amount of power from that pack each cell will
have to deliver "Y" amount of current.
If you then rewire the pack as two strings of 100 cells for the "low"
voltage pack and pull the same amount of power from it as you did from the
high voltage pack, each "cell" will have to deliver the same amount of
current as in the high voltage pack. In other words the power that each
cell must provide is the same for high and low power packs.
If you are going to compare high and low voltage packs and you change more
variables than just the voltage you should provide that info so as to avoid
misunderstandings.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In order to circumvent the DOT rules requiring crash testing, the cost of
which is one of the main obstacles to any start-up car company-
How disassembled does something need to be to qualify as a "kit"?
Could you deliver a finished car with the motor on a pallet and call it a
"kit"?
You install the motor and away you go!
Don't see why not!
Marv
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don't forget isolation. I couldn't design any EV chargers without isolation
when I worked at GE-EV for safety and UL approval. I also charge in the rain
at work and a non-isolated charger would pop the building outdoor GFI
outlets as well as be unsafe. I have a DC center tap breaker sonalert (DC
GFI) that alerts me if a wire rubs through somewhere and monitors with
respect to ground which requires an isolated charger. (I saw someone's cat
die when it crawled up and got between a battery terminal and ground using a
K&W light dimmer charger).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hurley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 8:37 PM
Subject: Questions about Russco Chargers
> >The Russco SC18-120 and SC24-120 chargers operate off 120 VAC only and
> >are intended for charging packs of 84 to 144 volts. To achieve full
> >power capabilities of 1800 watts AC or 2400 watts AC from the SC18 or
> >SC24 respectively, a boost transformer is required for packs of 132 or
> >144 volts. The boost transformer is a 60 hz. buck/boost transformer
> >configured as an auto transformer to boost the line voltage by either 16
> >or 32 volts. The transformer can also be wired to buck the line voltage
> >for faster charging of 84 volt packs.
>
> I'm in the very slow process of building my first conversion, and
> sooner or later, I'm gonna need a charger. I'm planning on a 144V
> flooded PbA pack. I'd like to be able to do fast charging when
> possible, and I'm planning on having a 14-50 put in for home charging
> purposes. It looks like all your chargers designed for 144V are 110
> only. Any chance of a variable input (110V - 240V AC) similar to the
> 192V charger you currently produce?
> --
>
>
> Auf wiedersehen!
>
> ______________________________________________________
> "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
>
> "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
> of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
> women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
>
> "..No."
>
> "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
>
> -Real Genius
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now you got my interest Joe, how you do that? the only thing I can think of
is to run the first PS at 2.45v per cell with the current knob turned all
the way up and the second PS set with voltage unlimited and the current knob
set to 10% of the capacity (run both PS at same time) and wait for the
voltage to stop rising, if this is what your talking about, great idea, but
what are the diodes for, I would think that the Sorensen PS are self
protected?
This is what I saw when I tried to break in (cycle) a replacement Optima
for the car, the setup, 25 amp load resistor 500W with fan, a Rudman reg
with Lee Harts cycler modifications and a small automotive battery charger
20 amps, I stopped the automatic cycling after the fourth cycle because the
discharge time was decreasing at a steady rate, it became very clear that a
dumb charger wasn't going to cut it, the voltage hit 14.7v before the
current dropped to 2 amps so the battery wasn't "full" when it switched over
to the discharge mode. The only reason I'm using a BS2 is the fun factor,
the wife said NO stamps in the kitchen, air conditioner, or anything she
touches so it's back to the garage and my junk as she puts it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Battery Cycler project
> You can do it with two power supplies and a diode (or two). No relay or
> sensor is necessary.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
www.lasvegasev.com
Richard Furniss
Las Vegas, NV
1986 Mazda EX-7 192v
1981 Lectra Centauri 108v
3 Wheel Trail Master 12v
Board Member, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For the UK SVA tested cars, the kits are supposed to have a minimum build time
(I think it's 100 hours) - but most of the kit car manufacturers simply
over-estimate how long construction takes to make their cars simpler. Also, if
you're a manufacturer of cars, you can only have 200 cars SVA tested in a year.
The funny thing is - there used to be a loophole for paying import duty on cars
coming into the UK. Manufacturers were sending cars over without their wheels
and saying they were components :^D the importers/dealers would then fit wheels
to the cars and a fortune was saved... Of course they were rumbled and the law
was changed to be similar to the minimum time of build on the SVA...
James
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marvin Campbell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: CalCars Plan
In order to circumvent the DOT rules requiring crash testing, the cost of
which is one of the main obstacles to any start-up car company-
How disassembled does something need to be to qualify as a "kit"?
Could you deliver a finished car with the motor on a pallet and call it a
"kit"?
You install the motor and away you go!
Don't see why not!
Marv
=====
James
__________________________________________________
Yahoo! Plus - For a better Internet experience
http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/yplus/yoffer.html
--- End Message ---
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Ok, I think I'm going to make a run for the Power of DC under the Prizm's
power. In the event I don't make it to the Battery Warehouse I will rent a
6,500 watt generator and stick it in the Dodge Caravan. If needed I can
simply pull over and charge for an hour.
As for going back, one possibility would be to have a tow dolly take me from
Hagerstown/drag strip to Frederick then cut me loose. With a full pack (and
the Caravan with the generator) I should make it back to Relay.
Only possible problem is that the MagneCharger will overdraw the generator.
I think I can tell the MC computer to limit the charge rate, maybe 15
[EMAIL PROTECTED] volts instead of it's current 18 amps.
This should work.
Chris
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* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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Hi Chris,
Maybe you should break out the MagneCharger diagnostic cable and
software I sent you and see how it works? Since the default charging
algorithm is two sequential CV charging modes, you can change the max
current in each mode to something lower. This is pretty easy to do. But
before you do that, make sure you record the parameters for the default
charging algorithm, or else you'll wind up like me and not remember
what they were.
Alex Karahalios
P.S. Good luck on your trip!
On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 12:05 PM, Christopher Zach wrote:
Only possible problem is that the MagneCharger will overdraw the
generator.
I think I can tell the MC computer to limit the charge rate, maybe 15
[EMAIL PROTECTED] volts instead of it's current 18 amps.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yep, I am going to do that this evening.
Right now the charger definately likes to sit at 360 volts and .1 amp for
*hours*. I think it's this thing's idea of a nice gentle equalize.
Hope it's not cooking the batteries, however not even going to 15 volts per
battery and keeping the rate to C/50 or less is probably not going to warm
anything up or vent it.
I hope :-)
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Karahalios" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: Driving to Power of DC.
> Hi Chris,
>
> Maybe you should break out the MagneCharger diagnostic cable and
> software I sent you and see how it works? Since the default charging
> algorithm is two sequential CV charging modes, you can change the max
> current in each mode to something lower. This is pretty easy to do. But
> before you do that, make sure you record the parameters for the default
> charging algorithm, or else you'll wind up like me and not remember
> what they were.
>
> Alex Karahalios
>
> P.S. Good luck on your trip!
>
> On Thursday, June 26, 2003, at 12:05 PM, Christopher Zach wrote:
>
> > Only possible problem is that the MagneCharger will overdraw the
> > generator.
> > I think I can tell the MC computer to limit the charge rate, maybe 15
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] volts instead of it's current 18 amps.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 26 Jun 2003 at 13:15, Mark Hanson wrote:
> Don't forget isolation.
I've been arguing the case for isolated charging for some years now, and my
arguments have mostly been dismissed. It's good to have someone with Mark's
background and knowledge in agreement.
IMO, if only a few dozen nonisolated chargers are in service, the risk isn't
huge. But the more such chargers are sold, the greater the risk.
I don't agree that a GFI is adequate protection. I have a GFI similar to
the ones in K&W chargers in my junkbox. I pulled it out of my kitchen when
it wouldn't trip in response to the test button. GFIs are electronic
devices. They wear out and just plain fail. Do you test your GFI every
time you charge? Really?
My concern is for the risk that some 5 year old kid will someday get
electrocuted while playing around someone's unisolated EV on charge. If
that should happen, not only will we have one horribly grief-stricken EVer,
we're going to have a fight on our hands. We'll see legislation to regulate
or even ban homebuilt EVs. We're apt to lose that fight, because we don't
have the financial or political strength for it.
The dirt and moisture that build up in any vehicle can become conductive.
It's worse with flooded batteries and their acid mist. Is a GFI and an
equipment ground really enough protection? How often have you cheated the
ground? What about those times when the GFI keeps tripping and you need to
charge anyway?
How much does a transformer cost? A switcher circuit? What's a kid's life
worth? What's our future freedom to build what we want worth?
I may be wrong, but I don't think it should cost more than a few hundred
dollars to add isolation to an already good charger. I know Rich has talked
about making it optional, though I don't think he has that very close to the
front of the queue right now. I hope that both he and Russ will make an
isolated power stage optional, if not standard, in their chargers.
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1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
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--- Begin Message ---
Good point Steve. Now that you have brought up the issue of line noise,
I can recall having difficulties like this as well with X10 light
switches not working when the heat pump was running (I've since had a
new heat pump installed and don't seem to have trouble anymore, but this
just illustrates the problems that can occur with X10). I haven't tried
any of those line filters to see if they really work or not, but that
could make a difference. Another option would be to use a 2-way X10
module that can respond to status requests from the controller. I don't
know if any of the basic time modules would work with this, but I
believe you could use their computer based control system to switch it
off and then check to make sure it was actually off. If it did not
switch off, it could keep trying until it finally did, or it could give
you some sort of alarm to notify you of the problem. Of course, this is
probably a much more expensive way to go and there's a chance it might
still have problems with line noise and not work correctly.
Of course, if you had a smart charger that could monitor the batteries
and turn itself off when the batteries were fully charged, then you
would eliminate the danger of damaging your batteries due to the timer
not functioning correctly. If I remember correctly, the original
question was how to use a timer to automatically charge the batteries at
night. Timed charge control in order to avoid baking the batteries was
not the issue.
-Bryan Avery
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
> Behalf Of Michael Hoskinson
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 4:37 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: CalCars Seeks Sponsors for Plug-In Hybrid Prototypes
>
> I'll second that. I have an X10 telephone transponder that I was
> using to turn on the furnace at the cottage. Often as not, the
> X10 unit would turn the furnace on randomly. This was in a house
> where nearly nothing else was on at the time. I understand that
> you can get line filters and the like for X10, which might have
> helped if I had pursued it.
>
> Mike Hoskinson
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I would be careful using an X10 module to turn off my charger. They
> operate by sending a burst (in the ultrasonic range I think) over the
AC
> line and are susceptible to noise.
> > It would be a shame if the noise from your charger kept the X10 from
> turning it off before your batteries bubbled their life away.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/25/2003 5:18:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
"Bryan
> Avery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >
> >>X10 controlled outlets are available for 220V as well as wall 220V
wall
> >>switches that could be used to switch power on and off for a
standard
> >>220V outlet. The ones I've seen (at http://www.smarthome.com) are
only
> >>rated for 20A though so might not work with high power chargers.
Once
> >>you have the X10 outlet, you can use a separate X10 timer module to
> >>switch it on and off.
> >>
> >>-Bryan Avery
> >>
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>
> >>On
> >>
> >>>Behalf Of Mark Thomasson
> >>>Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:15 PM
> >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>Subject: Re: CalCars Seeks Sponsors for Plug-In Hybrid Prototypes
> >>>
> >>>I have a timer from Home Depot rated for 15A 120VAC. I've never
seen
> >>
> >>one
> >>
> >>>for 220VAC. Mark T.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>At 11:07 PM 06/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>Even better, don't turn the
> >>>>>charge on until midnight, after the microwaves, TV sets, and
> >>
> >>Nintendo
> >>
> >>>games
> >>>
> >>>>>are turned off (and the A/C load drops in South Texas). I
welcome
> >>
> >>your
> >>
> >>>>>feedback to all this. Thanks, Mark T.
> >>>>
> >>>>I was thinking of a timed outlet - a simple light timer set to be
on
> >>
> >>9pm
> >>
> >>>>until 7am, would that be a good idea for car charging? then you
plug
> >>
> >>in
> >>
> >>>>anytime but only charge off-peak. Not sure what amperage they can
> >>
> >>handle
> >>
> >>>>though.
> >>>>
> >>>>brad
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > .
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrea Bachus Kohler wrote:
> I wonder what concept he would come up with today
> that in another 103 years, designers would be
> incorporating into their cars.
Just imagine what he would think to find out
that his company has caved in and started manufacturing
station wagons!
I read on Carboy's EV website that we don't need
new innovations as much as we just need to actually use
those that have already been invented. The piece was referring
to the inventions of Buckminster Fuller, but it would readily
apply to all visionaries including Ferdinand Porsche and
probably half of the people on this List.
..John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Just to let everyone know, a few of us in PDX are getting together to order
> some Optima yellow tops. So far, we're looking for around 85 of 'em.
I'm -very- tempted Eric, that is a great deal, and I would
be glad to run over to Portland in a New York Minute to get them, but
my prototype YTs from Sept. 1996 are taking their Texas Time wearing out!
They are currently on charge with my fully isolated modular charging
system after a brisk run around town to try to figure out where to
recycle a phone book and then pick up some fresh fruits and vegetables.
Some people started to step out in front of me as I was cruising along.
I was very glad to stop for them, because it gave me another chance to
sink myself deep into the seat and leave all those slow gas-propelled cars
behind. Then I mowed the lawn with my electric Toro.
...John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How much electricity does a Half Wave Bad Boy Charger use to charge a 120
volt battery pack at 50 amps from a 240 volt AC outlet for one hour ?
How much electricity does a Full Bridge Bad Boy Charger use to charge a
120 volt battery pack at 50 amps from a 240 volt AC outlet for one hour ?
Both chargers use one 120 volt AC hot leg and the neutral.
Do they both only use 120 volts x 50 amps or 6000 watts plus what ever is
lost in the heating of the cord from the outlet to the meter on the
charger ?
How does the electric company house meter record the usage ?
Does it record 50 amps for 120 volts or 50 amps for 240 volts ?
Thanks,
Menlo Park III,
Bill
________________________________________________________________
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Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But Ed...
5 miles on a 60 mile range is a more than 8% increase in range, right? And every
little bit helps...you wouldn't want it as your only source, of course, but if it's
"in the mix" then it certainly seems a worthwhile addition.
.Steve Coallier
"Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway!"
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:34 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: solar on car
Bill,
Excellent use - drive 5 miles, use about 1.5kw electricity, and after 8
hours, with proper orientation, regain 1.5kw of electricity. Good
short-range solution. Cannot find sizing on the M75, but the SP75 panels are
about 4'x1.75'. So that's 28sf of solar panels, which matches with my
initial calculations.
Felix,
5 mile / 1.5kw range extension (under ideal conditions) will not get you far
if the production vehicle is designed for 60 or 80 or more miles per charge
range. For a solar car, light weight and extremely efficient (which means
not very practical for the average person), this might be enough, but I
thought the goal of CalCars was to produce a vehicle for the more typical
driver.
-Ed
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Good to hear from you, John!
Sounds neat! And I'm glad to hear that the YTs are working so well so long.
I'm looking forward to a well-treated set; the pack I got with the truck had
been abused. Some of the batteries seem to still be good, but not enough of
them to be really useful. A few have died dramatically.
I'm surprised how many people are in need of YTs. Maybe when you get around to
getting more, there will be enough others to get a good price, too.
Take care and breath easy!
--
- Eric
> I'm -very- tempted Eric, that is a great deal, and I would
> be glad to run over to Portland in a New York Minute to get them, but
> my prototype YTs from Sept. 1996 are taking their Texas Time wearing out!
> They are currently on charge with my fully isolated modular charging
> system after a brisk run around town to try to figure out where to
> recycle a phone book and then pick up some fresh fruits and vegetables.
> Some people started to step out in front of me as I was cruising along.
> I was very glad to stop for them, because it gave me another chance to
> sink myself deep into the seat and leave all those slow gas-propelled cars
> behind. Then I mowed the lawn with my electric Toro.
>
> ...John
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After 2 hours of trudging through bug-infested grass to find my
lost turn signal fixture, I thought it would be nice to take a
quick run in the D and play with the controller regen parameters.
My son Paul drove while I handled the programmer. The PDA
was hooked in, with EV-Dash keeping record. I figured we'd keep
everything else constant except "inversion regen" which happens
when you flip the forward/reverse switch into reverse while
cruising down the highway. A couple of minor increases didn't
change anything, so I set it to its maximum. This time instead
of 100 amps of regen we got 142, but that was only for a moment
(1 second on the EV-Dash record) then the controller dropped out
completely and we coasted to a stop. No problem, says I, just
shut her down for a reboot. Problem, says the ev gods, the only
reboot you'll see tonight is when you change your shoes after
walking home.
We had walked less than a mile when my wife showed up in the ICE.
She said she had visions of us trapped in a burning car etc.
What's to burn?, I asked. The seats, she said. What's going to
ignite them?, says I. You've got all those big wires, she said.
Oh, oh. now I'll have to make the battery boxes flameproof.
After all, there is no use making an ev that she won't drive.
Sadly, the controller is toast. Don't know what I did but I
guess I'm still living up to that nickname. Let's see, first it
was one of Randy's motors, then John's charger, then one of the
brushes of my hydraulic pump motor, now my controller. What's
left? Anybody have a DC/DC that they want trashed? Heck, a guy
could make a whole EV out of the parts that I've smoked! Except
of course, that they are smoked.
At least we found the turn signal fixture.
Mike Hoskinson
Wrecker of EV Parts.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
I am currently looking for a 36 volt 15 amps or
less charger. I have 3 batteries, SLA, AGM,
rated at 50 ah. The manufactor recommended
charging at 15 amps or less. Being portable is
not a factor, I would perfer used to save some
dough, and I live in Southern California. You
can contact me on or off the list.
Thanks, Allan
PS: If someone just happened to post a charger
for sale on here, I did not see since I fell
behind on my email.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=====
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for
Nature cannot be fooled." --- Richard P. Feynman
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Remember the following first rule of disinformation analysis: truth is specific, lie
is vague. Always look for palpable details in reporting and if the picture is not in
focus, there must be reasons for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe that isn't a bad thing. I hear a lot how people driving electrics
have to watch for pedestrians more!
How about a shaded parking structure at work? Say 10 by 20 feet and
cover the top with solar, would I get much benifit? 1 sun * (10*20) / 9
* .17 = 3.7kw * 5hours 15KWhs Is that right? sounds too good
Solar on the car is for Air conditioning, I like that idea! 104 degrees
today.
I have heard how ambient temp effects PbA batetries, what about NiCads
and the other battery technolgies mentioned here. I live in Fresno
California. Basiclly 2 seasons, winter and summer with a week or 2 at
each end of indecision we call spring and fall. Winter, the radio
stations count the days of fog between till we see the sun and summer
they count the days over 100.
but it's flat :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
Yes, I am the guilty party. I am trying to work through a backlog of
entries but I promise I will get caught up shortly.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey
See the EV Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
See the EV Tradin' Post at: http://evtradinpost.evalbum.com
At 10:51 AM 6/24/03 -0400, you wrote:
mike chancey does the EV Album... he's probably just busy and will get to
it when he can. cheers
Seth
On Tuesday, June 24, 2003, at 08:45 AM, James Jarrett wrote:
Is there something up with updates to the EV album?
I submitted the information for my Henney about two weeks ago and have not
heard nor seen anything? I uploaded picture and the like. I have also sent
two e-mail messages checking on the status and I have not heard back.
Am I
doing something wrong?
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
Every program is either trivial or it contains at least one bug.
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Remember all the stories about Tilley and his free-energy Delorean?
Well, the Tennessee Dept of Commerce just seized all his assets....
(something about mis-representing his invention to stock holders.. oh my.)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.Com
--- End Message ---
