EV Digest 2908
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Public design charger
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: RE-switched capacitor battery equalizer
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: May be some new Optima YTs in Portland
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: May be some new Optima YTs in Portland
by "Eric Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Public design charger
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: New EV to go into production
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) A Buck a Watt
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Charger cost (was: 6 hours...)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: RE-switched capacitor battery equalizer
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: New EV to go into production
by Lonnie Borntreger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) ev insurance
by "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: New EV to go into production
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: OT Re: Fw: CNG Vehicles & Electric vehicles
by "Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: ev insurance
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Rolling bodies (was: New EV to go...)
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: ev insurance
by "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Rolling bodies (was: New EV to go...)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: RE-switched capacitor battery equalizer
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar wrote:
>
> At 6:26 PM -0700 7/7/03, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
> > > Thoughts anyone?
>
> I like the idea of separating out the controller. I see the
> controller as a technologically simple thing to make, it can run at
> low voltage, makes little heat and therefore could even be a bare PCB
> sitting somewhere and not cause safety issues.
>
> As for the separate isolation stage, I guess I feel that low cost non
> isolated chargers are well covered by Rich and his PFC series. So I
> don't see the value in making a competing device.
> I could see a 60hz isolation transformer being utilized in a car, but
> then I would just add it to one of rich's chargers.
>
Thanks Otmar for the tip of the hat here.
I just found the Amveco catalogs.
These are the lightest 60 Hz iso transformers that I can find.
10 amps right or 1200 watts from 120 and 2400 from 240 VAC.
1200 VAC at 60 hz 18.3 lbs and 45 watts loss at rated power. 6.4 inch
core, 3.00 tall.
That would double the weight of a PFC20.
Sigh!!! This is the cost of Iso. I am looking at 30 lbs to support a
PFC20s 20 to 25 line amps.
HF really looks good here. But it takes more silicon, about 2x more.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
.
>
> By the way, Prof. Krein has published a few papers on
> battery
> equalizing, in
> which he showed that voltage balance within 10 mV is
> needed to extend
> battery
> lifetime.
>
> Jonathan
I take great exception to this!! If we are talking about 12 volt lead
acid batteries, this number is total Bullshit!!.
10 Mv is a joke even 250 Mv or 1/2 volt is not critical once you are
over about 13.8
I have to ask, how many times he has actually charged EV sized
batteries, because it's not as tight as he says.
Lets beaware of a slight amount of blue smoke and mirrors here.
Or is this the point of the post????
Montonic is a 5 Bit word, not understanding the basic relation of
inductors to store energy and caps as flying storage devices, says, they
don't have it all together.
As good solid BMS would hold +-100 Mv(.1volt) But even this is not
mission critical. Holding .1 volts and less than 1 amp of charge is.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eric,
I may be interested in these for my boat.
Right now I have 12 T-105's in 2 series strings for 36v, for ~ 400Ah
capacity.
If I purchased 12 YT's, wired them into 4 series strings of 36v, and
paralleled these strings with my T-105 36v strings would there be any
problems? This would add, what, about 240Ah to my capacity with 4
additional strings? Weight would be around #700 additional? Cost:
$1350+...hmmmm...
The reason for me to consider the YTs is their ability to be located in
whatever position and their non-leaking....good for inside the cabin of my
boat (the T-105s are outside the cabin). I wonder if I might instead best
pick up some of your DOA used YT's and see if there's not 6 or more of these
which have adequate life for my low current application (typ. less than
20amps/string)? Thoughts?
-Myles Twete, S.E. Portland
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Eric Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:13 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: May be some new Optima YTs in Portland
>
>
>
> I hope there won't be, but we've not heard from one of the four
> of us buying these nice, new YTs at only $108.95 each (plus only
> $3.00 core charge).
>
> Craig Savage is first in line for the 13 YTs we are getting for
> him. However, since I will have to pay for these if he doesn't
> step forward real soon now, they will be available at our cost.
> I hope there's just been some holiday-related miscommunication,
> but will need to recover this unplanned investment. And keep
> the batteries from sitting any longer than necessary.
>
> So, Craig, contact me ASAP if you still want the batteries.
>
> Otherwise, others can let me know if they want some. We will
> have a few extras, so up to 16 may be available. If you're in
> the Portland, Oregon area and at all interested in a set of YTs,
> this is the time! (Or not, if Craig resurfaces.) I'd like to
> sell them as a set of at least 13, so as not to end up with too
> few to make a matched set for someone.
>
> It'll be nice to get these on the road.
>
> Eric Johnson
> Portland, OR
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 503-348-6392
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did they get in trouble for this behavior? Lawrence Rhodes.......
Nope.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myles,
I think it could work. And, if Craig doesn't pop up soon, I'd
be glad to let just 12 go.
YTs are 44 lbs. each and (they've changed this since my old ones
were manufactured) rated at 55 AHrs. So, 12 would weigh 528
lbs. and provide 220 AHrs. Or, really, 110 AHrs useable. And
you may well be able to have them for $1343.40! If you had room
(and money!), you might be able to use 15 of them (adjust above
figures accordingly).
The problem that I'd worry most about is the charging regimen.
I've not played with T-105's, but do know that the finish voltage
is slightly different for YTs than floodeds. Hopefully, someone
like John or Rich will step in here and suggest the easiest way
to keep both type happy.
The other thing I'd expect, with the YTs' lower internal resistance
(assuming I'm correct in that), is a higher percentage of current
might come from the Optimas under load. I'd expect this not
to be significant overall, but I'd consider it.
I'll let everyone know as soon as I hear just who gets these
batteries.
Eric Johnson
Portland, OR
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
503-348-6392
>--- Original Message ---
>Eric,
>I may be interested in these for my boat.
>Right now I have 12 T-105's in 2 series strings for 36v, for
~ 400Ah
>capacity.
>If I purchased 12 YT's, wired them into 4 series strings of
36v, and
>paralleled these strings with my T-105 36v strings would there
be any
>problems? This would add, what, about 240Ah to my capacity
with 4
>additional strings? Weight would be around #700 additional?
Cost:
>$1350+...hmmmm...
>The reason for me to consider the YTs is their ability to be
located in
>whatever position and their non-leaking....good for inside the
cabin of my
>boat (the T-105s are outside the cabin). I wonder if I might
instead best
>pick up some of your DOA used YT's and see if there's not 6
or more of these
>which have adequate life for my low current application (typ.
less than
>20amps/string)? Thoughts?
>
>-Myles Twete, S.E. Portland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking for finding places to remove weight from the car and decided I should
start with myself. I've lost about 1/3 of a US125 so far! Your 16lbs are covered ;)
Steve
In a message dated 7/8/2003 12:16:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]> writes:
>Otmar wrote:
>>
>> At 6:26 PM -0700 7/7/03, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>>
>> > �> Thoughts anyone?
>
>>
>> I like the idea of separating out the controller. I see the
>> controller as a technologically simple thing to make, it can run at
>> low voltage, makes little heat and therefore could even be a bare PCB
>> sitting somewhere and not cause safety issues.
>>
>> As for the separate isolation stage, I guess I feel that low cost non
>> isolated chargers are well covered by Rich and his PFC series. So I
>> don't see the value in making a competing device.
>> I could see a 60hz isolation transformer being utilized in a car, but
>> then I would just add it to one of rich's chargers.
>>
>
>Thanks Otmar for the tip of the hat here.
>
>I just found the Amveco catalogs.
> � �These are the lightest 60 Hz iso transformers that I can find.
>10 amps right or 1200 watts from 120 and 2400 from 240 VAC.
>
>1200 VAC at 60 hz 18.3 lbs and 45 watts loss at rated power. 6.4 inch
>core, 3.00 tall.
>That would double the weight of a PFC20.
>Sigh!!! This is the cost of Iso. I am looking at 30 lbs to support a
>PFC20s 20 to 25 line amps.
>
>HF really looks good here. But it takes more silicon, about 2x more.
>
>
>Rich Rudman
>Manzanita Micro
>www.manzanitamicro.com
>1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
why 1400 pounds? 1000 pounds of lead would be good for over 100 miles
range. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:07 AM
Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
> But can it handle an additional 1400 pounds of batteries + motor +
> riders?
>
> jorg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
>
> Maybe a sand rail frame with a kit body over it. They are light. Sub
> 1000
> pounds with the motor and tranny in and running.....Lawrence
> Rhodes......
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 10:27 PM
> Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
>
>
> > I don't mean to be a downer, but my eyes just glaze over at people's
> new
> > electric car projects. The hurdles to making a full-on electric car
> are
> > enormous - including lots of regulatory hurdles, red ink, etc. Just
> ask
> > the AC Propulsion people why the tZero hasn't made it yet. Or the
> > tropica folk. Or the 3-wheeler...
> >
> > Biggest thing is, when someone else builds it, they not only lock you
> > into a style of car (sport car, sedan, truck, 4x4, whatever), they
> also
> > lock you into a type of propulsion, and a battery technology.
> >
> > I'm sick of being forced to pick between the two extremes of expensive
> > pre-built electrics whose manufacturers are going broke, and
> inexpensive
> > old gassers in need of lots of conversion labor.
> >
> > I don't want an electric vehicle anymore. Right now what I want is a
> > cheap, LIGHT, chassis with a big, low-center-of-gravity battery box.
> > Give me a speedometer, ammeter, and voltmeter, make it rear-wheel
> drive,
> > and give me a way to pick my own gear ratio, my own motor, my own
> > controller, my own battery.
> >
> > Surely, someone...
> >
> > jorg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> > Behalf Of Brad Waddell
> > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:43 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: New EV to go into production
> >
> > Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under
> > construction.
> > Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
> >
> > http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
> >
> > brad
> >
> > Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> > Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> > QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 07/08/03
at 09:11 AM, "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>Did they get in trouble for this behavior?
Yes, though the cases may have been settled by now.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-----------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A Buck a Watt is typical for a switching battery charger.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:38 AM
Subject: Re: 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
> The last time I talked to Power Designers about their EV charger, they
> wanted $6700 for a 6 kW unit
> http://www.powerdesigners.com/products/PowerCharge/Pchahv_b.pdf (not
> including any options.) If someone is near a phone during the day, they
> might call to get a current price.
>
> I had a co-worker purchase two 12 kW 300 Volt chargers from Schaefer for
> about $11000 each about a year apart.
> http://www.schaeferpower.com/pdf/C5800.pdf
>
> Another supplier is Major Power with their line of industrial chargers at
> http://www.majorpower.com/majorcharge/industrial.html. I thought their 10
kW
> units were about $16000 a couple years ago.
>
> Big and/or expensive chargers are out there.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:02 PM
> Subject: RE: 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
>
>
> > > I'm curious to see this $5000 charger. I have top of the line ones
with
> > > micros and all bells and whistles for a bit over $3k.
> > >
> > > So which chargers are you talking about (unless you just make up
numbers
> > > to express your unsatisfaction)?
> >
> > Victor,
> >
> > I'm the one who brought up the $5000 number. I was guessing a bit high,
> but
> > not that high. A Brusa 3.3KW charger is 5,970 CHF = $4,349, not
including
> > shipping or import duties.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> > Thomas Hudson
> > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:51 PM 7/8/2003, you wrote:
Did they get in trouble for this behavior? Lawrence Rhodes.......
Nope.
--
Does it really look like any of them got away with it? How is Enron doing
these days?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:51 PM 7/8/2003, you wrote:
Did they get in trouble for this behavior? Lawrence Rhodes.......
Nope.
--
Does it really look like any of them got away with it? How is Enron
doing these days?
Anyone go to jail for fraud? Anyhone even get tried for it? Yes,
Enron went out of business, but they were hardly the only ones
defrauding the energy industry, and Enron largely went out of
business due to it's internal practices, not it's external ones. So,
yes. They got away with it.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 07/08/03
at 12:51 PM, Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>>Did they get in trouble for this behavior? Lawrence Rhodes.......
>Nope.
Here's an article about a civil suit filed:
http://losangeles.bizjournals.com/losangeles/stories/2003/04/21/daily12.html
And here's a press release about a settlement in a different case
involving the State fo California and others:
http://www.elpaso.com/press/newsquery.asp?sId=4121
To me, it doesn't look like they got away with it. Perhaps more should
have been done, but that's a different question.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-----------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich, I know it's not your numbers; my question was directed to Tom.
Victor
Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> >
> > Rich Rudman wrote:
> > >
> > > Tom Hudson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > You shouldn't have to pay $5000 for a battery charger just to get a safe,
> > > > reliable charge. Anyone out there interested in working on this?
> > >
> >
> > I'm curious to see this $5000 charger. I have top of the line ones with
> > micros and all bells and whistles for a bit over $3k.
> >
> > So which chargers are you talking about (unless you just make up numbers
> > to express your unsatisfaction)?
> >
> > Victor
>
> Umm Victor I did NOT come up with the $5K. I know your nice kickass
> charger is 3000 plus.
> Not my numbers.
I wish I could say they are my chargers. They are Brusa's design and
implementation.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom,
Compare apples to apples. You picked out the most expensive water
cooled option from Brusa'a line of chargers.
Air cooled version (identical ratings) is 4'470 CHF is $3,266 today.
Water cooled version has 33% premium.
Compare to Rich's line of chargers: a $1500 unit cost $2k if water
cooled
option introduced. Surprise! - identical 33% premium.
If you want luxury item, your choice, like luxury car or any luxury
item.
By definition, for people who like the best luxury items, money is not
the top priority, and often no object. Small, but existing market.
For the rest of us there are plenty of other choices. If you choose
luxury charger which does everything, pay for it and don't complain.
Victor
Tom Hudson wrote:
>
> > I'm curious to see this $5000 charger. I have top of the line ones with
> > micros and all bells and whistles for a bit over $3k.
> >
> > So which chargers are you talking about (unless you just make up numbers
> > to express your unsatisfaction)?
>
> Victor,
>
> I'm the one who brought up the $5000 number. I was guessing a bit high, but
> not that high. A Brusa 3.3KW charger is 5,970 CHF = $4,349, not including
> shipping or import duties.
>
> -Tom
>
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We can always find $6k, $12k or if you look hard enough, $50k charger.
Let's talk about reasonable chargers intended for EV.
Mentioned Brusa 3.3 kW charger is stackable (which is another feature
to be paid for), and so naturally 6.6 kW or 10 kW cost respectively
double and triple of a single unit. What would you expect?
It all comes to decision whether features and satisfaction *you* get
worth the premium *for you*. Simple.
And, everyone is different.
This is why I think [unfortunately] public charger project will fail.
Victor
Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> The last time I talked to Power Designers about their EV charger, they
> wanted $6700 for a 6 kW unit
> http://www.powerdesigners.com/products/PowerCharge/Pchahv_b.pdf (not
> including any options.) If someone is near a phone during the day, they
> might call to get a current price.
>
> I had a co-worker purchase two 12 kW 300 Volt chargers from Schaefer for
> about $11000 each about a year apart.
> http://www.schaeferpower.com/pdf/C5800.pdf
>
> Another supplier is Major Power with their line of industrial chargers at
> http://www.majorpower.com/majorcharge/industrial.html. I thought their 10 kW
> units were about $16000 a couple years ago.
>
> Big and/or expensive chargers are out there.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:02 PM
> Subject: RE: 6 hours of high voltage hammering.
>
> > > I'm curious to see this $5000 charger. I have top of the line ones with
> > > micros and all bells and whistles for a bit over $3k.
> > >
> > > So which chargers are you talking about (unless you just make up numbers
> > > to express your unsatisfaction)?
> >
> > Victor,
> >
> > I'm the one who brought up the $5000 number. I was guessing a bit high,
> but
> > not that high. A Brusa 3.3KW charger is 5,970 CHF = $4,349, not including
> > shipping or import duties.
> >
> > -Tom
> >
> > Thomas Hudson
> > http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> > http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> > http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> > http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have little experience in this, and with all respect to Prof. Krein
can confirm, Rich is 100% right on this.
10 mV will be within the noise of any practical design.
If I maintain my 3.6V LiIons within 100 mV (which is better than 3%!),
their life will be just as long as if accuracy is better.
For 12V battery 3% is about 0.4V - no reason to try to be better
than 3%. Do your math.
Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
> .
> >
> > By the way, Prof. Krein has published a few papers on
> > battery
> > equalizing, in
> > which he showed that voltage balance within 10 mV is
> > needed to extend
> > battery
> > lifetime.
> >
> > Jonathan
>
> I take great exception to this!! If we are talking about 12 volt lead
> acid batteries, this number is total Bullshit!!.
>
> 10 Mv is a joke even 250 Mv or 1/2 volt is not critical once you are
> over about 13.8
> I have to ask, how many times he has actually charged EV sized
> batteries, because it's not as tight as he says.
>
> Lets beaware of a slight amount of blue smoke and mirrors here.
> Or is this the point of the post????
> Montonic is a 5 Bit word, not understanding the basic relation of
> inductors to store energy and caps as flying storage devices, says, they
> don't have it all together.
>
> As good solid BMS would hold +-100 Mv(.1volt) But even this is not
> mission critical. Holding .1 volts and less than 1 amp of charge is.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1000 pounds of lead, plus 1-2 riders, plus motor, wires, charger,
controller, etc......
Probably more than 1400. Right?
Lonnie
On Tue, 2003-07-08 at 13:20, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> why 1400 pounds? 1000 pounds of lead would be good for over 100 miles
> range. Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 10:07 AM
> Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
>
>
> > But can it handle an additional 1400 pounds of batteries + motor +
> > riders?
> >
> > jorg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 9:32 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
> >
> > Maybe a sand rail frame with a kit body over it. They are light. Sub
> > 1000
> > pounds with the motor and tranny in and running.....Lawrence
> > Rhodes......
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------
> > This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
> > from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 10:27 PM
> > Subject: RE: New EV to go into production
> >
> >
> > > I don't mean to be a downer, but my eyes just glaze over at people's
> > new
> > > electric car projects. The hurdles to making a full-on electric car
> > are
> > > enormous - including lots of regulatory hurdles, red ink, etc. Just
> > ask
> > > the AC Propulsion people why the tZero hasn't made it yet. Or the
> > > tropica folk. Or the 3-wheeler...
> > >
> > > Biggest thing is, when someone else builds it, they not only lock you
> > > into a style of car (sport car, sedan, truck, 4x4, whatever), they
> > also
> > > lock you into a type of propulsion, and a battery technology.
> > >
> > > I'm sick of being forced to pick between the two extremes of expensive
> > > pre-built electrics whose manufacturers are going broke, and
> > inexpensive
> > > old gassers in need of lots of conversion labor.
> > >
> > > I don't want an electric vehicle anymore. Right now what I want is a
> > > cheap, LIGHT, chassis with a big, low-center-of-gravity battery box.
> > > Give me a speedometer, ammeter, and voltmeter, make it rear-wheel
> > drive,
> > > and give me a way to pick my own gear ratio, my own motor, my own
> > > controller, my own battery.
> > >
> > > Surely, someone...
> > >
> > > jorg
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Brad Waddell
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:43 AM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: New EV to go into production
> > >
> > > Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under
> > > construction.
> > > Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
> > >
> > > http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
> > >
> > > brad
> > >
> > > Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> > > Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> > > QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
Does anyone have a recommendation for an insurance company for EV coverage?
I currently have Safeco (for 25 years) and my agent says they will not
insure "substantially modified" vehicles. I'll be converting a stock sedan,
so there shouldn't be anything too unusual, from an EV perspective.
Peri Hartman
Seattle
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jorg,
Just go see your local neighborhood hot rod chassis builder.
They supply a certified welded rolling chassis with wheels, suspension,
brakes, steering, rearend, transmission, engine, body but I'm sure they
would not mind selling one without the engine or body. Then you should
be able to put in that big low center of gravity battery box and chose
all your gear ratios, motor, etc.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:27:04 -0700 "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> I don't mean to be a downer, but my eyes just glaze over at people's
> new
> electric car projects. The hurdles to making a full-on electric car
> are
> enormous - including lots of regulatory hurdles, red ink, etc. Just
> ask
> the AC Propulsion people why the tZero hasn't made it yet. Or the
> tropica folk. Or the 3-wheeler...
>
> Biggest thing is, when someone else builds it, they not only lock you
> into a style of car (sport car, sedan, truck, 4x4, whatever), they
> also
> lock you into a type of propulsion, and a battery technology.
>
> I'm sick of being forced to pick between the two extremes of
> expensive
> pre-built electrics whose manufacturers are going broke, and
> inexpensive
> old gassers in need of lots of conversion labor.
>
> I don't want an electric vehicle anymore. Right now what I want is a
> cheap, LIGHT, chassis with a big, low-center-of-gravity battery box.
> Give me a speedometer, ammeter, and voltmeter, make it rear-wheel
> drive,
> and give me a way to pick my own gear ratio, my own motor, my own
> controller, my own battery.
>
> Surely, someone...
>
> jorg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> Behalf Of Brad Waddell
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:43 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: New EV to go into production
>
> Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under
> construction.
> Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
>
> http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
>
> brad
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was also a major natural gas supply pipe explosion in the midwest,
Illinois as I recall, at the same time.
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 09:11:30 -0700 "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
>
> There were some shortages for awhile of natural gas, but that was
> linked
> to an energy company buying up all the line capacity from Texas,
> then not
> using it.
>
> Did they get in trouble for this behavior? Lawrence Rhodes.......
>
>
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 07/08/03
at 07:13 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
>There was also a major natural gas supply pipe explosion in the midwest,
>Illinois as I recall, at the same time.
I don't think that it impacted California.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Mark Abramowitz"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-----------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have my Jet insured, along with all of our other cars, with Farmers. They
didn't bat an eye. It was cheap too.
Allstate did this to me about 10 years ago, when I had another Jet at the
time. They said "nope we don't insure no steenkin' electrics." I said
fine, and dropped all my policies with them immediately for Farmers and have
been with Farmers since.
The previous owner of my current Jet also said that he had no problem with
Geico. However, my experience with auto coverage is that if you want good
treatment and rates, you have to insure all or none with them.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peri Hartman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evdl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:55 PM
Subject: ev insurance
Hi
Does anyone have a recommendation for an insurance company for EV coverage?
I currently have Safeco (for 25 years) and my agent says they will not
insure "substantially modified" vehicles. I'll be converting a stock sedan,
so there shouldn't be anything too unusual, from an EV perspective.
Peri Hartman
Seattle
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, we're in the same neighborhood Bill (assuming you're talking Menlo
Park CA not Menlo Park NJ), how do I find my "local neighborhood hot rod
chassis builder"? It'd be great if you could name some names... I know
a lot of those exist in the L.A. area, but it's a different world up
here in Silicon Valley.
jorg
ps And what look will they give me when I tell them with a straight face
that I want a hot rod that looks like a Honda Insight?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:01 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
Hi Jorg,
Just go see your local neighborhood hot rod chassis builder.
They supply a certified welded rolling chassis with wheels, suspension,
brakes, steering, rearend, transmission, engine, body but I'm sure they
would not mind selling one without the engine or body. Then you should
be able to put in that big low center of gravity battery box and chose
all your gear ratios, motor, etc.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:27:04 -0700 "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> I don't mean to be a downer, but my eyes just glaze over at people's
> new
> electric car projects. The hurdles to making a full-on electric car
> are
> enormous - including lots of regulatory hurdles, red ink, etc. Just
> ask
> the AC Propulsion people why the tZero hasn't made it yet. Or the
> tropica folk. Or the 3-wheeler...
>
> Biggest thing is, when someone else builds it, they not only lock you
> into a style of car (sport car, sedan, truck, 4x4, whatever), they
> also
> lock you into a type of propulsion, and a battery technology.
>
> I'm sick of being forced to pick between the two extremes of
> expensive
> pre-built electrics whose manufacturers are going broke, and
> inexpensive
> old gassers in need of lots of conversion labor.
>
> I don't want an electric vehicle anymore. Right now what I want is a
> cheap, LIGHT, chassis with a big, low-center-of-gravity battery box.
> Give me a speedometer, ammeter, and voltmeter, make it rear-wheel
> drive,
> and give me a way to pick my own gear ratio, my own motor, my own
> controller, my own battery.
>
> Surely, someone...
>
> jorg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> Behalf Of Brad Waddell
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:43 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: New EV to go into production
>
> Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under
> construction.
> Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
>
> http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
>
> brad
>
> Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax: 602-532-7019
> Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A friend of mine wanted to insure his Segway, and Progressive Insurance
was able to do that for him.
I've also used them on and off for about 15 years now. About 5 years
ago, I got into an accident while dropping a friend to work. I was
making a very sharp left turn from what I thought was the only left turn
lane. Turns out there was another lane just to the left of mine, and I
scratched his front with my side. He was really upset, so I called
Progressive on my cel phone and let them talk to him - they totally
calmed him down. Then I dropped my friend off to work.
Now, this was 9AM, and I had a plane to catch at noon. Progressive had
one of their vans drive out, which got to my apartment around 10AM and
inspected my vehicle for damage. While I packed. About 10 minutes
later the Progressive guy came to my door, presented me with a check (I
had full coverage), and left. Ever since I've never had the desire to
go with any other company.
Anyway, I think they should be able to handle your situation.
jorg
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peri Hartman
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 3:55 PM
To: evdl
Subject: ev insurance
Hi
Does anyone have a recommendation for an insurance company for EV
coverage?
I currently have Safeco (for 25 years) and my agent says they will not
insure "substantially modified" vehicles. I'll be converting a stock
sedan,
so there shouldn't be anything too unusual, from an EV perspective.
Peri Hartman
Seattle
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jorg,
Menlo Park I is Menlo Park, NJ.
Menlo Park II is Menlo Park, CA
Menlo Park III is Glastonbury, CT and was so designated by a former VP of
NEEAA when he said my facilities and projects reminded him of Menlo Park.
Like anything else, look in the Yellow Pages for a hot rod chassis
builder.
No kidding, I looked for one in the local Yellow Pages and found:
Total Performance in Wallingford, CT.
Menlo Park III,
Bill
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:19:38 -0700 "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> OK, we're in the same neighborhood Bill (assuming you're talking Menlo
> Park CA not Menlo Park NJ), how do I find my "local neighborhood hot
> rod
> chassis builder"? It'd be great if you could name some names... I
> know
> a lot of those exist in the L.A. area, but it's a different world up
> here in Silicon Valley.
>
> jorg
>
> ps And what look will they give me when I tell them with a straight
> face
> that I want a hot rod that looks like a Honda Insight?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 8:01 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: New EV to go into production
>
> Hi Jorg,
> Just go see your local neighborhood hot rod chassis builder.
> They supply a certified welded rolling chassis with wheels,
> suspension,
> brakes, steering, rearend, transmission, engine, body but I'm sure
> they
> would not mind selling one without the engine or body. Then you
> should
> be able to put in that big low center of gravity battery box and
> chose
> all your gear ratios, motor, etc.
> Menlo Park III,
> Bill
>
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2003 22:27:04 -0700 "Jorg Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> writes:
> > I don't mean to be a downer, but my eyes just glaze over at
> people's
> > new
> > electric car projects. The hurdles to making a full-on electric
> car
> > are
> > enormous - including lots of regulatory hurdles, red ink, etc.
> Just
> > ask
> > the AC Propulsion people why the tZero hasn't made it yet. Or the
> > tropica folk. Or the 3-wheeler...
> >
> > Biggest thing is, when someone else builds it, they not only lock
> you
> > into a style of car (sport car, sedan, truck, 4x4, whatever), they
> > also
> > lock you into a type of propulsion, and a battery technology.
> >
> > I'm sick of being forced to pick between the two extremes of
> > expensive
> > pre-built electrics whose manufacturers are going broke, and
> > inexpensive
> > old gassers in need of lots of conversion labor.
> >
> > I don't want an electric vehicle anymore. Right now what I want
> is a
> > cheap, LIGHT, chassis with a big, low-center-of-gravity battery
> box.
> > Give me a speedometer, ammeter, and voltmeter, make it rear-wheel
> > drive,
> > and give me a way to pick my own gear ratio, my own motor, my own
> > controller, my own battery.
> >
> > Surely, someone...
> >
> > jorg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > On
> > Behalf Of Brad Waddell
> > Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 11:43 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: New EV to go into production
> >
> > Not sure if you have all seen this new page yet, still under
> > construction.
> > Another ambitious project that hopefully will see the road!
> >
> > http://www.universalelectricvehicle.com/
> >
> > brad
> >
> > Brad Waddell ** FLEXquarters.com LLC ** voice-mail/fax:
> 602-532-7019
> > Postal: 6965 El Camino Real Ste 105 #488 Carlsbad CA 92009 USA
> > QODBC Driver for Quickbooks - Unleash your data at www.qodbc.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe he meant 100mV.
Jon is a pretty smart guy (4.0 GPA EE BS degree
and 3.86 Masters).
They aren't equalizing EV packs yet, but
I'm sure his research will be beneficial to
the EV community once it gets there.
P.S. Don't be so subtle Rich, just speak
your mind! :-)
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rod Hower wrote:
> .
> >
> > By the way, Prof. Krein has published a few papers
> on
> > battery
> > equalizing, in
> > which he showed that voltage balance within 10 mV
> is
> > needed to extend
> > battery
> > lifetime.
> >
> > Jonathan
>
> I take great exception to this!! If we are talking
> about 12 volt lead
> acid batteries, this number is total Bullshit!!.
>
> 10 Mv is a joke even 250 Mv or 1/2 volt is not
> critical once you are
> over about 13.8
> I have to ask, how many times he has actually
> charged EV sized
> batteries, because it's not as tight as he says.
>
> Lets beaware of a slight amount of blue smoke and
> mirrors here.
> Or is this the point of the post????
> Montonic is a 5 Bit word, not understanding the
> basic relation of
> inductors to store energy and caps as flying storage
> devices, says, they
> don't have it all together.
>
> As good solid BMS would hold +-100 Mv(.1volt) But
> even this is not
> mission critical. Holding .1 volts and less than 1
> amp of charge is.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
