EV Digest 2912
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Making PCBs
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) PCB's
by fred whitridge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Cheap DC to DC converter.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Making PCBs
by "Tom Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Life with a Jet Electrica EV report
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Finish charge question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Noisy Vacuum Pump
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) ICE vs. EV maintenance (was: RE: Life with a Jet Electrica EV report)
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: A Buck a Watt
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Life with a Jet Electrica EV report
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) OT: Re: Public design charger, patents...
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Electric mowers
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Electriclouie - another dragster?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by "Dave Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Re: Life with a Jet Electrica EV report - getting OT
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) A/C in a Henney?
by "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by "Thomas Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by "Shawn Lawless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: Public design charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by "Shawn Lawless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Power supplies as chargers?
by "The Levine Family" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
32) Re: A/C in a Henney?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I used the Eagle CAD software from http://www.cadsoft.de , and then used
the PCBExpress service http://pcbexpress.com/products/express1.php to have
the boards made. They accept the Eagle files directly with no conversion.
Worked well, and they were fast.
At 06:59 PM 7/9/2003 -0700, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Anyone out there used PCB123 service to order PCBs? Is their
free software any good or I better use something else?
Any comments experiences or advise welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Victor
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor:
I've used www.expresspcb.com tried the other guys who I think do more
layers and may be somewhat cheaper but found their software harder to
master. expresspcb does a three business day turnaround and will send
you three 3.8" x 2.5" boards for $62. They have other flavors of
service and sizes and silkscreening, obviously. Their new schematic
software is a welcome addition and links to their very manual but very
quick to learn board layout software-- both free. These neat boards are
addictive: I've lost my wire wrapping tool and don't miss it and perf
board and proto boards now seem ugly.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A bridge makes a bad boy. An inverter makes AC from DC. Is there a cheap
way to make an inverter to directly convert DC to AC like a bridge converts
from AC to DC. If so there are thousands of really cheap 120-240vac power
supplies that could be used as a DC to DC on vehicles that have a pack over
120v. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----------------------------------------------------
This mailbox protected from junk email by Matador
from MailFrontier, Inc. http://info.mailfrontier.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Anyone out there used PCB123 service to order PCBs? Is their
> free software any good or I better use something else?
> Any comments experiences or advise welcome.
I have not used PCB123, but have used ExpressPCB several times. Their
service is incredible, I can highly recommend it. High quality boards,
plated-thru holes, fast turnaround and pretty inexpensive, especially if you
can fit your design onto one of their standard board sizes.
-Tom
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From�:� Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To�:� [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject�:� Re: Life with a Jet Electrica EV report Date�:� Wed, 09 Jul 2003
13:41:55 -0700
<snip>
1. You know what? When was last time you had problems with any of this
in USA? The shop gladly taking care of it for you in on every few blocks
in average city, competing to do this work. An old lady or a girl
with an inch long nails can easily take care of her car this way.
You'll have to tell that to the shop that "competes" by charging me
$60 to run a diagnostic on the computer in my Metro. Or the
shop that wanted to charge me $54 to reset the "Check Engine" light
in my Ranger so it would pass smog. (I had run out of gas parked on
my steep driveway, so the Check Engine light stayed on. I finally
talked him down to $25 for 25 seconds' work.) I've spent over a
thousand dollars on three different shops trying to fix an intermittent
starter problem. (Result? Still doesn't work right.) And that doesn't
count the dealerships charging $40 for an oil change or $300 and
up for the "30,000 mile service." If there's a cheap modern ICE out
there, I haven't found it yet.
On the other hand, who knows what inside of your lectric car?
I'd want one but don't want to mess with it, just drive it and have someone
take care of it. Ready to pay. Who can do it? No one in my
block.
Sorry.
Have you asked?
With the glut of auto repair shops around here, I'm certain I could find
someone
to do that work for me. The 80,000 mile service would consist of,
"Disconnect
these batteries, lift them out, then unbolt the motor and send it to the
motor shop
down the street to install brushes." If I offer to pay by the hour,
guaranteed I'll find
someone to do the work, and it probably won't cost me any more than the
"90,000 mile service" on my ICE. (Oh, and I forgot, it's time for a new
timing belt
and valve adjustments once again, and then I have to smog it to renew the
registration.
Cha-ching.)
2. I don't buy a car to work on it, I buy it to drive it to places.
That's what a car is for for 95% of the plain people like me.
Why Toyota (at its expense) should make it easy to work on for remaining 5%
you belong to? Get real.
Yes, they should. Why should I pay $800 for labor for the dealership to
replace
a heater flap door under the dash? Or $60 so the "special test equipment"
can
tell me that I need a new O2 sensor? ICE vehicles are designed to make
things hard
for the local neighborhood shop to "compete" for repair business, while at
the same
time, keeping dealership service departments rolling in the billable hours.
Even changing
your own oil is becoming an ordeal, since the engine is often covered with
the
ominous fake-powdercoat-looking plastic cover.
I met Victor, and he's saying that I got it all wrong. As I see it,
he's nuts, have to have a shop, a skill, a time, a special knowledge
beyond average, an inspiration, other sacrifices just to drive an EV in
places I can drive to without all these problems. And, my 5 liter Mustang
excites *me* no less than his ACRX excites him.
What?? It's a motor, controller, charger, batteries, DC/DC, a couple of
contactors and the wires connecting them. In a properly-sized and assembled
system, you probably won't even need to have a shop touch anything but the
batteries, and those can be installed by any schmoe who can diagram where
the
cables go on. Other than that, the transmission, braking system and
suspension
are just like those on any other car.
Five liter Mustangs don't excite me. My dad has one. It's identical to the
couple
million other five liter Mustangs out there. An EV is the closest you'll
ever
come to a kit car, while still retaining the nice interior, driving
characteristics and
parts availability of a normal car. It can be the ultimate environmental
statement, the
ultimate sleeper car, the ultimate soundoff car, or all three. You can
build it yourself
and have the knowledge of how to put it together and maintain it, you can
contract it
out to a shop, you can buy a second-hand Force or Ranger EV, or you can buy
an EV
built-to-order from Steve Clunn or many other builders.
Tim
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to fire questions quicker than you folks can provide answers but...
My new 72v pack of US125s is behaving a bit differently during finish than my severly
abused old pack. Not a suprise.
When charging the old pack, I did constant current of 14 amps to 87v and then dropped
back to 5.6 amps until the voltage rose less then 0.1v/hr. The voltage was normally
around 89v or 90v at this point. I have my charger set to shut down if the voltage
gets above 91v as a safety. The finish took about 3 hrs. When I charge my new pack,
the voltage is still rising at about 0.025v / minute between 90 and 91 volts and then
my charger shuts off. This is happening in about an hour.
Am I under charging or over charging? Should I increase the 91v limit? That's easy.
Should I reduce the 5.6 amps? That's a bit more difficult but doable. 5.6 amps is
about 2.5% of a 225ah battery.
thanks,
Steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth" aspect of
driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that is
quieter. Any recommendations?
The one I have now looks just like this one:
http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim Clevenger wrote:
> >From�:� Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To�:�
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject�:� Re: Life with a Jet Electrica EV report Date�:�
> Wed, 09 Jul 2003
> >13:41:55 -0700
> >2. I don't buy a car to work on it, I buy it to drive it to places.
> >That's what a car is for for 95% of the plain people like me. Why
> >Toyota (at its expense) should make it easy to work on for
> remaining 5%
> >you belong to? Get real.
>
> Yes, they should. Why should I pay $800 for labor for the
> dealership to
> replace
> a heater flap door under the dash? Or $60 so the "special
> test equipment"
> can
> tell me that I need a new O2 sensor? ICE vehicles are
> designed to make
> things hard
> for the local neighborhood shop to "compete" for repair
> business, while at
> the same
> time, keeping dealership service departments rolling in the
> billable hours.
> Even changing
> your own oil is becoming an ordeal, since the engine is often
> covered with
> the
> ominous fake-powdercoat-looking plastic cover.
I'd have to agree. For as long as I can remember, I've done all my own
maintenance on my ICE cars. When I was younger it was fun. Now I do it
because I can't trust a dealer to sweat the details, like wiping around
the trans filler plug so grit doesn't fall in and become a $2000 trans
replacement later. Or tell me what I really need instead of telling me
I "need" a $400 timing belt replacement when I clearly don't. Service
is a *huge* money maker for dealerships. But no one thinks about it
when they buy a new car.
That said, I'm getting to hate working on my cars so much that I may
have someone else do it from now on. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a
local shop with a competent, honest mechanic. Even then I will face a
new problem (for me) that no one has mentioned yet.
Logistics. When the car needs service, you need to:
1. Schedule a time when the shop has an opening.
2. Figure out a way to get the car to the shop. This usually involves
someone else, and their schedule.
3. Figure out how to get to work without a car.
4. Get a ride back to the shop. See #2 above.
5. Hope nothing unexpected is found that throws off the schedule.
Who needs it? At least when I do my own work I do it when I want,
without all the above hassles. I'm fortunate to be able to do it.
Those who don't have that ability have lived with this routine so long
they just resign themselves to the inconvenience. Let me tell you, many
people would *love* to be able to maintain their own cars if it was as
simple as watering the batteries, rotating the tires and checking the
brake linings. Maybe a lazy hour on a Saturday morning.
As technology advances there is a tendency for complexity to increase.
The automakers have turned this to their advantage. Joe average can't
make sense of 90% of what's under his hood. He accepts this as
"normal", so he takes it to the dealer. Ca Ching! Is it any wonder the
automakers have fought so hard against EVs?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Jul 2003 at 9:58, Rich Rudman wrote:
> Mark Hanson wrote:
> >
> > A Buck a Watt is typical for a switching battery charger.
> >
>
> Lets see that's $5000 for a PFC20 and $11,000 for a PFC50.
> Ummm I would KIll to get these prices.
But Rich, you designed your charger right from the start to be cheap. You
left out many of the features found in these buck-a-watt chargers - UL
listing, extreme high voltage testing, isolation, microprocessor control,
multiple safeguards for the battery, and probably some others I haven't
thought of. You also don't have a big engineering staff to pay, or a
mortgage on a big R&D and manufacturing facility.
That's why your chargers don't cost a buck a watt. And because they don't,
you can sell them in (relatively) large quantities to EV hobbyists, who
(myself included) are often either relatively poor or notoriously cheap.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 9 Jul 2003 at 11:56, russco wrote:
> After 3 EV's of my own, extremely aggressive driving in my area have
> forced me to a safer conventional car that is fully depreciated and cost
> perhaps $50 per year for maintenance.
Completely avoiding the controversial issue of which vehicle type is
^really^ safer -- why can't you build an EV at least as safe as a gasser?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 10 Jul 2003 at 10:04, Dave Anderson wrote:
> Any recommendations?
Victor sells a rather nice integrated pump that's surprisingly quiet:
http://www.metricmind.com/pump.htm
It's designed for the application, unlike some of the other pumps we
sometimes use in EVs (but I think CanEV's is too).
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Thou shalt not send me any thing which says unto thee, "send this to all
thou knowest." Neither shalt thou send me any spam, lest I smite thee.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you tried mounting the pump on a 1/4" rubber trampoline? That made
a dramatic difference for my big Gast pump. Also, make sure that you
secure the pump/trampoline apparatus to a sturdy part of the car, such
as the frame, instead of a fender. The later will tend to resonate and
amplify the noise.
Another thing to consider is to have a larger vacuum accumulator for the
pump so it doesn't run every time you press the brake pedal.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:05 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Noisy Vacuum Pump
My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth" aspect
of
driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that is
quieter. Any recommendations?
The one I have now looks just like this one:
http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 8:00 AM -0400 7/10/03, Mark Hanson wrote:
FYI, my charger patent is 6,218,812 at us-pto.gov for those interested in
designing a switchmode charger (1500W with fan).
Oh oh, It's rant time:
Not that I blame Mark for patenting it. It's well known in business
that patents often have value irrespective of what's in them. But
this is a perfect example of how dysfunctional the patent system has
become.
It often amazes me what the PTO allows to "patent".
I read the claims, and out of 29 claims there are only two that I
have not seen in previous production designs at least 10 years ago.
Most of the ideas were in Lester chargers in the early 1980s. I mean
3 stage dv/dt charging? Give me a break! Of course it will be applied
to switchers as they become more cost effective. One of the "new"
ideas is "store a running total of a number of times a battery or
batteries has dropped below a predetermined voltage value" and the
other is using a infared interface for communication.
What's the requirement for a claim? Must not obvious to one skilled
in the art? I forget the actual wording, but in 2001 when this was
patented this was all old news to me.
In my opinion: A nation that grants patents like this is nothing but
a feeding ground for lawyers.
Rant off, You may now return to your regularly scheduled EV list. :-)
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.pddnet.com/scripts/ShowPR.asp?PUBCODE=045&ACCT=0006487&ISSUE=0307&RELTYPE=pr&PRODCODE=0000&PRODLETT=A
Paste the entire URL for the article about electric
mowers in Design News.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.electriclouie.com/batteries.htm
Is this another Tilley?
They have a picture of his 144V electric gokart
on page 26 of design news, July edition.
http://www.manufacturing.net/dn/index.asp?layout=article&articleId=CA306889&text=electrifiying+kart
You may need to register to see this page.
The guys name is Louie Finkle and he claims a 1/4 mile
in 12 seconds at 108 mph.
He is currently building a dragster to compete
with Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's presently bolted directly to the the subframe. Good idea on the
trampoline. I will do that and report back. I even happen to have some 1/4
rubber sheet kicking around. A bigger accumulater should be easy to do too.
The stock Jet accumulator is a 2 qt soup can. :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Stensland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: Noisy Vacuum Pump
Have you tried mounting the pump on a 1/4" rubber trampoline? That made
a dramatic difference for my big Gast pump. Also, make sure that you
secure the pump/trampoline apparatus to a sturdy part of the car, such
as the frame, instead of a fender. The later will tend to resonate and
amplify the noise.
Another thing to consider is to have a larger vacuum accumulator for the
pump so it doesn't run every time you press the brake pedal.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dave Anderson
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:05 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Noisy Vacuum Pump
My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth" aspect
of
driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that is
quieter. Any recommendations?
The one I have now looks just like this one:
http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod (and others),
I can assure you that Electric Louie is real and is a serious contender
in the sport of electric drag racing. He helped sponsor NEDRA events
and holds a NEDRA record in the dragster class (see www.nedra.com under
records).
Dean Grannes
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is the same Electric Louie that paid for Bill Dubes drag cycle frame and
the guy who bet $5000.00 that he could blo by my CE dragster in a year,.He is
a man of his word,He sent me a check for 5000.00 January02.Yes he has a
beautiful new car the same size as mine.He is working on a hi-power battery,but
holds many thousand new boulder cells so he is not battery limited. Dennis
Kill A Watt Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
but most lower and middle class people can not afford to
> spend $ 15 K and up for a new car these days
That would apply to a new EVs as well (if they were exist).
> One of my co-workers spent $ 250 at a dealer to have a new set of plugs
> and wires put in his 2001 Ford 4 cylinder pickup truck instead of
> spending maybe $ 50 in parts and a Saturday or Sunday doing the work
> himself.
So being like him, he wouldn't work on his EV too. And to fix
a loose wire in it mechanic would charge $250 instead of $30 for
the same wire in an ICE.
Understand, this is about people, not cars.
You sure can convert/sell wonderful EVs.
You cannot sell piece of mind for the ownership of so publicly
unaccepted (yet) type of vehicle. It comes as a package though
with a conventional car. We in this group don't care.
A girl with 25.4 mm long nails does.
It's been said many times - it's emotional. Can't attach dollars
to it (for the most people).
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.metricmind.com/pump.htm
$284 today.
Victor
Dave Anderson wrote:
>
> My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
> Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth" aspect of
> driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that is
> quieter. Any recommendations?
>
> The one I have now looks just like this one:
> http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
>
> -Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While re-building the rear battery box on my Henney, I noted that the tail
end of the motor has a pully attached. Since the motor is in the back (with
1/2 the batteries) I was wondering what they meant by putting that on there.
At first, I thought it was so you could put on a small car alternator to
charge the accessory battery, and it could do that, but then I thought, I
bet this could be used to run a vaccum pump and provide some (if not great)
air condioning.
Seeing it has been in the 90's with humidity of 80% percent the last few
days, this is a good idea to me. Anyone out there got any tips on how to
attack this? I know next to nothing about automotive A/C.
James
James F. Jarrett
Information Systems Associate
Charlotte Country Day School
(704)943-4562
Any programming language is at its best before it is implemented and used.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:55 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Noisy Vacuum Pump
http://www.metricmind.com/pump.htm
$284 today.
Victor
Dave Anderson wrote:
>
> My current brake booster vacuum pump is the noisiest thing in my Jet
> Electrica, and it is quite annoying. Totally ruins the "stealth" aspect
of
> driving an EV. I would like to see about getting something else that is
> quieter. Any recommendations?
>
> The one I have now looks just like this one:
> http://www.canev.com/KitsComp/Components/VacuumPumpKit.html
>
> -Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Louie Finkle is not only a serious electric drag racer, but also the
inventor
of an electric skateboard. The skateboard brake and throttle are
controlled
by a wireless hand held remote control.
Tom Shay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:33 AM
Subject: Electriclouie - another dragster?
> http://www.electriclouie.com/batteries.htm
> Is this another Tilley?
> They have a picture of his 144V electric gokart
> on page 26 of design news, July edition.
>
>
http://www.manufacturing.net/dn/index.asp?layout=article&articleId=CA306889&text=electrifiying+kart
> You may need to register to see this page.
>
> The guys name is Louie Finkle and he claims a 1/4 mile
> in 12 seconds at 108 mph.
> He is currently building a dragster to compete
> with Dennis Berube
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can find this
GAST #MOA-V111-JH...Vacuum Pump...12 VDC/6.8
Amps...pumps to 24 in-Hg maximum...accepts 1/4-18 NPT
fittings...8 lbs.
At KTA,
http://www.kta-ev.com/catalog/index.html
Jim bought one for the Fiero and used a 12" long, 2.5"
diameter PVC pipe with caps on the end for an
accumulator.
It was not mounted on a trampoline but was still
considerably quieter than the previous Delco pump.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dennis,
According to Louie's website and my crude calculator, If I replace my GE
motors with his brushless units and my 900# of Svr's with 1200# of his
battery, my estimated flywheel horespower would be 4080 and my quarter mile
time would be right around 5.28! If this is all true I think the race is for
2nd place.
Shawn
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
> This is the same Electric Louie that paid for Bill Dubes drag cycle frame
and
> the guy who bet $5000.00 that he could blo by my CE dragster in a year,.He
is
> a man of his word,He sent me a check for 5000.00 January02.Yes he has a
> beautiful new car the same size as mine.He is working on a hi-power
battery,but
> holds many thousand new boulder cells so he is not battery limited.
Dennis
> Kill A Watt Berube
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Watching Electric Louie on his go cart was one of the highlights of my
Woodburn visit two years ago. What it doesn't tell is just how quickly that
thing gets up to speed. It was like watching a rocket launch. Definitely
not a ride I wanted to try out.
damon
From: Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Electriclouie - another dragster?
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:33:27 -0700 (PDT)
http://www.electriclouie.com/batteries.htm
Is this another Tilley?
They have a picture of his 144V electric gokart
on page 26 of design news, July edition.
http://www.manufacturing.net/dn/index.asp?layout=article&articleId=CA306889&text=electrifiying+kart
You may need to register to see this page.
The guys name is Louie Finkle and he claims a 1/4 mile
in 12 seconds at 108 mph.
He is currently building a dragster to compete
with Dennis Berube
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will stick with my 1 simple 119.7lb series motor with a couple mods for
vegas.Sounds like I will be the underdog there! CEs still in the paint
shop,motor still apart..but I promise to be on the line in VEGAS. Dennis
Kill A Watt Berube
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
> Another el-cheapo charger is to use a 1500W micro-wave oven
> transformer and re-wind the secondary for 1/2 pack voltage.
> Set the final taper to C/40 and use a uP to shut off when
> dv/dt=0 (<.01V per cell per hour).
You've mentioned this before and I think it is an excellent approach.
The microwave transformers have a magnetic shunt which causes their
output to be intrinsically current limited. They are about halfway
between a conventional transformer and a constant-voltage transformer.
In fact, you could leave the magnetic shunt in place, and use the
International Rectifier circuit to phase control a capacitor on the
secondary side to make it simulate a constant-voltage transformer.
--
Lee A. Hart Ring the bells that still can ring
814 8th Ave. N. Forget your perfect offering
Sartell, MN 56377 USA There is a crack in everything
leeahart_at_earthlink.net That's how the light gets in -- Leonard
Cohen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn Lawless wrote:
>
> Dennis,
>
> According to Louie's website and my crude calculator, If I replace my GE
> motors with his brushless units and my 900# of Svr's with 1200# of his
> battery, my estimated flywheel horespower would be 4080 and my quarter mile
> time would be right around 5.28! If this is all true I think the race is for
> 2nd place.
>
> Shawn
If you think anyone of us has 4000 Hp worth of motor on tap. I need to
know what you are smoking!!!
As you know getting the battery Hp to those large slicks is not as easy
as it looks.
Louie's motor has never been down the strip as I recall.
I would love to bolt it to my Dyno and let the amps fly.
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not nearly as well versed in this as y'all but it must be true the
3000HP is right there on his website. Considering that John Force and
company are regularly getting a good deal of their 5-6 thousand horses to
the pavement I'm assuming the chassis and drive train required to do this
already exists. I must say it makes the Orange Juice's estimated per motor
output of 235HP look downright pathetic. Taking this one step further, if I
could get my hands on one of Doc Brown's mobile nuke reactors and a flux
capacitor I would have 3.21 gigawatts on tap Try to get that to the
pavement! 1/4 mile time comes in at somewhere near .0493 seconds. Seriously,
could it be that the site has a typo. Right above where it says 3000 HP it
says 300% greater than 30 -100 HP. This would be obviously 90-300 HP, a
number that seems much more believable. Any thoughts?
Shawn
PS: Dennis the underdog? Yeh, Right.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
> Shawn Lawless wrote:
> >
> > Dennis,
> >
> > According to Louie's website and my crude calculator, If I replace my GE
> > motors with his brushless units and my 900# of Svr's with 1200# of his
> > battery, my estimated flywheel horespower would be 4080 and my quarter
mile
> > time would be right around 5.28! If this is all true I think the race is
for
> > 2nd place.
> >
> > Shawn
>
> If you think anyone of us has 4000 Hp worth of motor on tap. I need to
> know what you are smoking!!!
> As you know getting the battery Hp to those large slicks is not as easy
> as it looks.
>
> Louie's motor has never been down the strip as I recall.
>
> I would love to bolt it to my Dyno and let the amps fly.
>
>
> --
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
> www.manzanitamicro.com
> 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With all the discussion of charger selections, I was wondering what the
gurus think of using power supplies for pack charging? I happened upon this
page: http://www.power-one.com/resources/products/datasheet/modhp.pdf -
couldn't you choose the outputs that total what you want and put them in
series? Since these essentially run on 300vdc, you could have one unit that
acts as your dc converter and disable the others when no AC is present. I
just wonder if you can make a compensation circuit that adjust output based
on a temp input.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Louie's rig's were definitely some of many surprise highlights at
Woodburn 2001 (with thanks to Mike's archive's):
(1/2 pint) Dragster
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/woodburn2001/jw004.jpg
(the REAL fun machine)
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/woodburn2001/jw002.jpg
Here's a shot of the motor (seemed fairly *typical* to me)
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/woodburn2001/jw003.jpg
Until I saw Louie's rocket-launch out of the traps (and finish the 1/4 mile at
103 mph for his first run I believe?), I thought driving one of Dave Cloud's
Electrathons 2 inches off the asphalt and skimming along at 25-30 mph was
exciting: Louie's ride has GOT to be downright frightening!!!
(but isn't that why we love it?:-)
regards,
Jim Waite
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments inserted.
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:14 PM
Subject: A/C in a Henney?
> While re-building the rear battery box on my Henney, I noted that the tail
> end of the motor has a pully attached.<
What diameter and width pulley?
<Snip>
>I thought, I
bet this could be used to run a vaccum pump and provide some (if not great)
> air condioning.
I would recommend a vac pump off a 6.2 L Diesel. Available from any GM
dealer.
> James
You really need a steady state drive capable of driving a modern compressor
@ around 1750 rpm to get good performance from your A/C, but yes you can get
something by driving a Sanden 505 or 508 (708) off that accessory pulley.
See if you can fit a 14 X 20 condenser up front somewhere, can even be in
the deck lid with a power fan. A small underdash A/C unit from Frigette or
Danhard, or if you want to spend some money get an evaporator from Vintage
Air. Just remember, you are only going to get cooling when the drive motor
is spinning that compressor up pretty good, so that means highway speeds, or
in neutral with the motor spinning. Personally I would recommend driving the
compressor with a seperate drive motor and control pkg. Better yet is a
Sanden electric drive A/C unit, but these are very pricy and require high
voltage.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shawn,
I checked out your company website.
You're not to far from me in Akron, OH.
I would like to stop buy some time and check
out your EV stuff.
Watts a good time?
Rod
--- Shawn Lawless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I'm not nearly as well versed in this as y'all but
> it must be true the
> 3000HP is right there on his website. Considering
> that John Force and
> company are regularly getting a good deal of their
> 5-6 thousand horses to
> the pavement I'm assuming the chassis and drive
> train required to do this
> already exists. I must say it makes the Orange
> Juice's estimated per motor
> output of 235HP look downright pathetic. Taking this
> one step further, if I
> could get my hands on one of Doc Brown's mobile nuke
> reactors and a flux
> capacitor I would have 3.21 gigawatts on tap Try to
> get that to the
> pavement! 1/4 mile time comes in at somewhere near
> .0493 seconds. Seriously,
> could it be that the site has a typo. Right above
> where it says 3000 HP it
> says 300% greater than 30 -100 HP. This would be
> obviously 90-300 HP, a
> number that seems much more believable. Any
> thoughts?
>
> Shawn
>
> PS: Dennis the underdog? Yeh, Right.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:02 PM
> Subject: Re: Electriclouie - another dragster?
>
>
> > Shawn Lawless wrote:
> > >
> > > Dennis,
> > >
> > > According to Louie's website and my crude
> calculator, If I replace my GE
> > > motors with his brushless units and my 900# of
> Svr's with 1200# of his
> > > battery, my estimated flywheel horespower would
> be 4080 and my quarter
> mile
> > > time would be right around 5.28! If this is all
> true I think the race is
> for
> > > 2nd place.
> > >
> > > Shawn
> >
> > If you think anyone of us has 4000 Hp worth of
> motor on tap. I need to
> > know what you are smoking!!!
> > As you know getting the battery Hp to those large
> slicks is not as easy
> > as it looks.
> >
> > Louie's motor has never been down the strip as I
> recall.
> >
> > I would love to bolt it to my Dyno and let the
> amps fly.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
> > www.manzanitamicro.com
> > 1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:58 PM 7/10/03, you wrote:
This is the same Electric Louie that paid for Bill Dubes drag cycle frame and
the guy who bet $5000.00 that he could blo by my CE dragster in a year,.He is
a man of his word,He sent me a check for 5000.00 January02.Yes he has a
beautiful new car the same size as mine.He is working on a hi-power
battery,but
holds many thousand new boulder cells so he is not battery limited. Dennis
Kill A Watt Berube
Well, this is close to the right story, but not 100% correct.
Louie proposed that I rebuild my bike completely at his expense. I
put together the figures and he gave the go-ahead to build. When the dust
settled, the new bike came in well below budget, but Louie only coughed up
1/2 of what we agreed on. It was nice to get the help, but I would not have
taken on as aggressive a rebuild had I known he was only going to pay half.
It put me in a major pinch financially.
A major part of this proposal was that Louie was to come up with a
500 HP drive package for the bike. He said to me, "I want to break 200
mph." I said to him, "Get me 500 HP and the bike will break 200 mph." He
said he would design and build the drive package and I should design and
build a bike that would take that much HP. I built the bike, but Louie
never managed to get any part of the drive package built.
Louie indeed went over 100 mph in a cart in the 1/4 mile. He
smoked the tires most of the way down the strip. It was impressive. He had
the last of the Bolder TMF cells in it. Nothing quite like Bolder TMF for
drag racing. :-)
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
