EV Digest 3270
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: e-meter interference?
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) External battery warmer
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: force efficiency
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) A better forum for EV and politics
by Johann Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) A better forum for EV and politics
by Johann Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: e-meter interference?
by Seth Murray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: BLDC control update
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: High Voltage or High Current
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: External battery warmer
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: BLDC control update
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: High Voltage or High Current
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: BLDC control update
by Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: BLDC control update
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: External battery warmer
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) More Re: e-meter interference?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: BLDC control update
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) hybrid/EV/bd Rally/Parade @ LA Auto Show 1/10/04 Sat
by Bruce EVangel Parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Mars Rover
by Lee Dekker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: California Legislation
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Experimental EV on e-bay
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by Aaron Birenboim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: A better forum for EV and politics
by "Jon \"Sheer\" Pullen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) small motors for EV accessories
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: e-meter interference?
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: The Road To California Is Open For EV Business
by "1sclunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I am not really qualified to answer this with authority but... My
understanding of this sort of problem is as follows. Others will hopefully
fill in the details or correct me if I am wrong.
Things to check are:
- For a shielded cable to work properly you must ground the shield(s) at one
end only and that should be a point common to the signal grounds. Some
systems run a separate heavy ground strap from each device to a common point
if necessary, don't rely on the car body for electronic devices grounds.
- A small (pf) size capacitor across the signal lines where they enter the
emeter will also help shut any noise to ground. I don't know if the emeter
manual says anything about this. I seem to remember a couple of years back
there was an external R/C circuit suggested to help keep noise out of the
meter. Newer meters I think are supposed to have this built in.
- Finally keep the signal lines away from the high current lines, try to
cross over any such cables at right angles to avoid inductive coupling of
noise.
Lawrence
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jim Coate
Sent: January 9, 2004 3:02 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: e-meter interference?
I have (finally) started to clean up some of the wiring in my truck.
One project was to put the e-meter in the dashboard, and along the way I
rewired it with what I thought would be "good" cable.
The problem is now when I'm driving, the voltage reads high. As in as
soon as I start moving, the displayed voltage goes up 20-30 volts. This
interference seems to be from the controller (big Raptor)... worst under
light loads, and if I get to wide open throttle, the displayed voltage
will immediately drop back to something reasonable.
Before I rewired things, I had the reverse problem, but not as bad. It
used to be that under big loads (high motor current) the displayed
voltage would drop maybe 5-10 volts below actual value... just enough to
make me think there was something wrong with the pack.
Previous wiring was separate cables for power (from DCP dc/dc), current
(from shunt) and voltage (from pre-scaler). Each cable was 18 gauge PA
speaker cable, with the red & black wires slightly twisted inside an
outer jacket.
The new and "improved" cable is scrap I came upon that is marked for 300
volts. Inside the outer jacket are 3 groups of wires, with a foil shield
around each group. Each of these groups consists of 2 insulated wires
(maybe 20-22 gauge) and a bare wire gently twisted together. Maybe an
audio 'snake' cable? So these 3 groups took the place of the 3 separate
cables.
More twisting, extra shielding, and ... worse results. Hmmmm.
What type of cabling do other people use? I thought about network
cabling (i.e. CAT5) as it is very tightly twisted, but it is a much
smaller gauge wire and not rated for the voltage. Do other people have
similar interference or am I just unlucky?
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Before I do something completely silly, I thought I'd ask the list.
Without a doubt, it's cold. And if I'm going to go anywhere I need some
sort of heat. I was thinking of this as a temp solution:
My pack is slung under the car in an aluminum tray. I have a pallet
jack, a plate of wood that is cut to match the size and shape of the
pack bottom. What if I put the wood plate on the pallet jack, a plate of
that OSB type insulation followed by an electric blanket against the
underside of the aluminum bottom of the pack? Would that be enough to
raise the pack temp up a bit?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The big Magnechargers were 90-93% efficient at full power. However,
part-load efficiency was much lower. A charger spends *most* of its time
at less than full load (like 2 hours in bulk, 4 hours in finish and
equalize). There were a lot of pumps, fans, extra stages etc. that kept
on consuming power even when not at full power.
*nod* This is the great weakness on the Magnecharger design: It doesn't
matter if you're running full-bore or trickle charging it needs power
for it's computer, interface, and those *fans*.
The other annoyance is that although you can do a pretty good
approximation of an IUI, you can't easily add that last "sit at float
for 24 hours" phase or store multiple charge profiles. The latter could
be fixed with a better in-car computer.
There is nothing wrong with inductive coupling per se. If you are going
to build an isolated charger, then there is no penalty for putting half
the transformer in the car and the other half in the paddle.
The Magnecharger was a wonderful tour de force in sophisticated
state-of-the-art charger design. However, it was a first design by a
company that had never made chargers before. There were lots of mistakes
and problems. If there had been a 2nd design, it could have been a lot
better. Instead, GM tried to ram an unfinished design down everyone's
throat as the 'standard' way to charge EVs.
True, but it's a pretty safe way to do it. Inductive is pretty much
idiot proof, and does have the advantage of no real possibility of
getting shocked in the rain.
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is bulletin software that allows you to
subscribe to the forum you are interested in and you
can get messages in plain text email. So it will
be basically the same except that you have the added
organization and can read threads easier if you wish
as well as sifting through data easier. A much more
effective use of time for all.
>No, it's called effective use of time. Using a web
>browser to read text email is a PITA. For those on
>dialup, it's excruciatingly slow. For others, it
>means remembering to fire up the web browser and go
>look. Having the msgs be delivered direct to the
>email box is quick and easy. Ignoring stupid
>threads
>is very quick. Either use the 'delete' key, or
>use your email readers filter system to ignore the
>thread.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry I wasn't clear. What I meant was that I
remember a few times where we get off topic and talk
about alternative fuels including how clean or dirty
diesels are. It was just another example of
something OT but pretty important to people (at least
by the heat of the discussion that I remember! :)
I don't think the list is broke. It could be better.
That's the hard part. If it was obviously broke then
I'm sure there would be a change. But if people are
content then there's no changing that!
Just a thought. Please delete this message and
move onto the next if you haven't already. ;)
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: A better forum for EV and politics
>
>Why would an evlist want a section for diesels? Is
>there a battery powered diesel available now?
>
>Gail
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
Does your Emeter have the "EV Filter"? That could make a difference...
Seth
On Friday, January 9, 2004, at 06:01 PM, Jim Coate wrote:
I have (finally) started to clean up some of the wiring in my truck.
One project was to put the e-meter in the dashboard, and along the way
I rewired it with what I thought would be "good" cable.
The problem is now when I'm driving, the voltage reads high. As in as
soon as I start moving, the displayed voltage goes up 20-30 volts.
This interference seems to be from the controller (big Raptor)...
worst under light loads, and if I get to wide open throttle, the
displayed voltage will immediately drop back to something reasonable.
Before I rewired things, I had the reverse problem, but not as bad. It
used to be that under big loads (high motor current) the displayed
voltage would drop maybe 5-10 volts below actual value... just enough
to make me think there was something wrong with the pack.
Previous wiring was separate cables for power (from DCP dc/dc),
current (from shunt) and voltage (from pre-scaler). Each cable was 18
gauge PA speaker cable, with the red & black wires slightly twisted
inside an outer jacket.
The new and "improved" cable is scrap I came upon that is marked for
300 volts. Inside the outer jacket are 3 groups of wires, with a foil
shield around each group. Each of these groups consists of 2 insulated
wires (maybe 20-22 gauge) and a bare wire gently twisted together.
Maybe an audio 'snake' cable? So these 3 groups took the place of the
3 separate cables.
More twisting, extra shielding, and ... worse results. Hmmmm.
What type of cabling do other people use? I thought about network
cabling (i.e. CAT5) as it is very tightly twisted, but it is a much
smaller gauge wire and not rated for the voltage. Do other people have
similar interference or am I just unlucky?
_________
Jim Coate
1992 Chevy S10
1970's Elec-Trak
http://www.eeevee.com
--
QUESTION INTERNAL COMBUSTION
'72 Datsun 240Z Conversion
http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm with Gail. I'm all for a replacement for the SJSU's software (i.e.
something that can convert, rather than delete, HTML or rich text posts).
If there's a web-based server that also can send out mail in individual
and digest format like we have now, and has a decent search engine to
boot, I'd be happy to contribute $10/year to keep it running. But every
web-only package I've seen is a pain in the butt, and keeping track of
the last message read in each little forum is even worse.
Tim
---------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:02:12 -0800 (PST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A better forum for EV and politics
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
It seems to me that this has been brought up before and as a group we
decided we really like what we have, and do not want to switch to a system
which would be less convenient for many.� I don't know what snitz or
vbulletin are, but if I had to open a browser to get to the evlist
messages I would unsubscribe.� I have browsers on a PC, on a unix system
and on my Mac, but I almost never use them for e-mail.� I don't like all
the junk the intrudes via html code, whether you want to see it or not.
Why would an evlist want a section for diesels?� Is there a battery
powered diesel available now?
Gail
_________________________________________________________________
Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here.
http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod,
That is almost exactly what I need for my Hybrid trike project.
Do you have a source for the motors? Any idea what kind of efficiency
we are talking about here?
Actually what I really want is two smaller motors with one controller.
I want two driven wheels, but I'd like to avoid using a differential.
How much and how soon?
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 16:47, Rod Hower wrote:
> I ran my new control on the dyno today at
> 27.6 Volts and 32Amps for 7 hours.
> I would have cranked up the current but our
> new IR camera required some installation so I could
> see the hot spots.
> The FET's (60V TO-247) where only 60C with NO
> heatsink.
> I also can add a parallel FET to increase current
> capacity (it was included in the board layout).
> So it looks like this control will easily do 100A
> continuous with 250-350Amp peak.
> A very interesting Go-cart control for BLDC motors,
> who's interested?
> P.S. the next circuit board will have 70V FET's
> and will easily run on a 48V system.
> Rod
> Rich, a really mean minibike from hell?
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 16:31, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Sam Uzi wrote:
> >
> > <dipstick question>
> >
> > the electrons are moving slower (lower voltage) because the plates (I
> > presume) are thicker, which allows them to ablate for a longer time? a
> > matter of available surface area? ...or something like that?
> >
> > </dipstick question>
>
> FWIW, electrons moving slower means lower current, not lower voltage.
> Less quantity of them (than in other conductor) would constitute less
> voltage between these conductors.
Umm, sorry Victor, but that's pretty much completely wrong.
The electrons always move at the same speed through a give medium
regardless of voltage OR current (right near the speed of light).
The quantity of electrons moving past a given point relates to the
Amperage, not voltage.
Voltage is the FORCE of the electrons moving, also referred to as EMF or
Electro Motive Force.
Using the water analogy Voltage is pressure, like in PSI, and current is
quantity as in gallons per minute. Taking it further, the size of our
water pipe would represent the resistance of our circuit. A larger pipe
(lower resistance) will allow more water to flow (higher current) for a
given pressure (voltage).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder how many watts in one of those things. Ralph Merwin was
using 36W on one insulated battery and the temp rose (initially) 5F
per hour. Any heat will help unless the box is hopelessly uninsulated.
- GT
You've considered this I figure, but is it guaranteed to be dry?
Would the pallet jack be able to crush the heating element insulation?
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Before I do something completely silly, I thought I'd ask the list.
>
> Without a doubt, it's cold. And if I'm going to go anywhere I need
some
> sort of heat. I was thinking of this as a temp solution:
>
> My pack is slung under the car in an aluminum tray. I have a pallet
> jack, a plate of wood that is cut to match the size and shape of
the
> pack bottom. What if I put the wood plate on the pallet jack, a
plate of
> that OSB type insulation followed by an electric blanket against
the
> underside of the aluminum bottom of the pack? Would that be enough
to
> raise the pack temp up a bit?
>
> Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
source for the motors?
It depends on what I find in the trash bin :-)
I've salvaged motors from returns that need no
repair or a simple bearing replacement.
I would like to see one on a trike.
What kind of power are you looking for?
I still need to do testing on the go-cart although
this is very difficult considering 0 degrees F in Ohio
lately. I think the control looks pretty good, but
real life testing will confirm that!!!.
The first control is going to Jan (he's posted here
a few times) on his ecycle scooter.
It's always nice to have free testing and a user
that is happy to receive a free control.
That's the advantage of the EVDL. Cooperation and
good engineering feedback for free!
Rod
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Rod,
>
> That is almost exactly what I need for my Hybrid
> trike project.
>
> Do you have a source for the motors? Any idea what
> kind of efficiency
> we are talking about here?
> Actually what I really want is two smaller motors
> with one controller.
> I want two driven wheels, but I'd like to avoid
> using a differential.
>
> How much and how soon?
>
> On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 16:47, Rod Hower wrote:
> > I ran my new control on the dyno today at
> > 27.6 Volts and 32Amps for 7 hours.
> > I would have cranked up the current but our
> > new IR camera required some installation so I
> could
> > see the hot spots.
> > The FET's (60V TO-247) where only 60C with NO
> > heatsink.
> > I also can add a parallel FET to increase current
> > capacity (it was included in the board layout).
> > So it looks like this control will easily do 100A
> > continuous with 250-350Amp peak.
> > A very interesting Go-cart control for BLDC
> motors,
> > who's interested?
> > P.S. the next circuit board will have 70V FET's
> > and will easily run on a 48V system.
> > Rod
> > Rich, a really mean minibike from hell?
> --
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying
> there should be a
> capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we
> just take the
> safety labels off of everything and let the problem
> solve itself?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Umm, sorry Victor, but that's pretty much completely wrong.
>
> The electrons always move at the same speed through a give medium
> regardless of voltage OR current (right near the speed of light).
Hmm, it occurs to me that I might have been to hasty in my reply.
Technically the current does effect how fast a given electron travels
from one end of a conductor to the other.
The electricity flows at near the speed of light, if we push an electron
into a piece of wire another electron pops out the other side nearly
instantaneously. But it's not the same electron.
If we had some way to mark an individual electron we would see that it
doesn't take a straight path through the conductor. It takes a zig-zag
path with occasional stops along the way.
Since there are a limited number of electrons in a given conductor, the
more electrons we push in one end, the quicker a given electron will pop
out the other end.
So while the speed of the electron from one point to another in it's
zig-zag path stays the same, the time it takes to go from one end of the
conductor to the other gets smaller at higher currents.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 21:12, Rod Hower wrote:
> source for the motors?
> It depends on what I find in the trash bin :-)
> I've salvaged motors from returns that need no
> repair or a simple bearing replacement.
> I would like to see one on a trike.
> What kind of power are you looking for?
Right around 600 watts continuous. I've been considering a pair of
curry motors, but I'm not sure how efficient they are.
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The problem with the world is stupidity. Not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the
safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>
> I ran my new control on the dyno today at
> 27.6 Volts and 32Amps for 7 hours.
> I would have cranked up the current but our
> new IR camera required some installation so I could
> see the hot spots.
> The FET's (60V TO-247) where only 60C with NO
> heatsink.
> I also can add a parallel FET to increase current
> capacity (it was included in the board layout).
> So it looks like this control will easily do 100A
> continuous with 250-350Amp peak.
> A very interesting Go-cart control for BLDC motors,
> who's interested?
> P.S. the next circuit board will have 70V FET's
> and will easily run on a 48V system.
> Rod
> Rich, a really mean minibike from hell?
Yup that'll kick the MBH. It did 48 volts and 175 amp a phase.
I still have the marine drive 250 amps and 120 volt, that would move
Goldie!!
--
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
www.manzanitamicro.com
1-360-297-7383,Cell 1-360-620-6266
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Chris,
There is a BTUH loss formula you can used to calculate the heat lost between
a internal and external surface:
Btuh = SF x u x TD
Btuh = British Thermal Units per hour
(3410 BTU's = 1000 Watts of electric heat)
SF = Square foot area of all external areas
u = reciprocal of R Factor
TD = Temperature Difference between external and internal temperatures.
Example:
The total square foot area of battery box = 60 sf
2 inch thick foil back foam board = 15 R-Factor
2 inch polystyrine foam board = 10 R-Factor
1 inch polystyrene foam board = 5 R-Factor
The interior battery compartment to have a target temperature of 80
degree F.
If the external ambient temperature is 0 degree F. then the Temperature
Difference or TD = 80 degrees.
If the external ambient temperature is -30 Degrees or 30 below 0 F then
the temperature difference is 110 degrees.
Therefore a 15 R Factor Insulation at -30 Degrees F with 60 square feet of
battery box surfaces is:
Btur = SF x u x TD
60 x 1/60 x 110
60 x .0166 x 110
Btu's per hour = 109.9 or 110
If 1000 watts require 3410 BTU's then:
Watts = (3410 x 110)/1000
Watts = 375 watts
Therefore it would take 375 watts of electric heat at 30 below just to
maintain a 110 degree difference with insulation at a rating of 15 R-factor.
In building structures, we design for a 100 degree difference and double the
BTU's rating or Wattage rating for a faster recovery time.
Roland
Energy Research Systems
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 5:30 PM
Subject: External battery warmer
> Before I do something completely silly, I thought I'd ask the list.
>
> Without a doubt, it's cold. And if I'm going to go anywhere I need some
> sort of heat. I was thinking of this as a temp solution:
>
> My pack is slung under the car in an aluminum tray. I have a pallet
> jack, a plate of wood that is cut to match the size and shape of the
> pack bottom. What if I put the wood plate on the pallet jack, a plate of
> that OSB type insulation followed by an electric blanket against the
> underside of the aluminum bottom of the pack? Would that be enough to
> raise the pack temp up a bit?
>
> Chris
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I re-read your post, and don't see anything about the
e-meter (green/orange leads, shunt) being twisted
pair-- which is what the manual calls for...?
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
(in progress)! ____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you
saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod,
Are these MOSFETs?
Am I allowed to see the design?
Thanks
--
Martin Klingensmith
infoarchive.net
nnytech.net
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 18:47, Rod Hower wrote:
> I ran my new control on the dyno today at
> 27.6 Volts and 32Amps for 7 hours.
> I would have cranked up the current but our
> new IR camera required some installation so I could
> see the hot spots.
> The FET's (60V TO-247) where only 60C with NO
> heatsink.
> I also can add a parallel FET to increase current
> capacity (it was included in the board layout).
> So it looks like this control will easily do 100A
> continuous with 250-350Amp peak.
> A very interesting Go-cart control for BLDC motors,
> who's interested?
> P.S. the next circuit board will have 70V FET's
> and will easily run on a 48V system.
> Rod
> Rich, a really mean minibike from hell?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I run what I call the "infoarchive" at http://infoarchive.net/
I've been planning on starting to archive this list but I haven't gotten
around to it. It's not really what you would call a web interface - it's
read only of course. But if anyone is interested then I will setup the
archive for this list. I have pretty good full-text searching
capabilities.
--
Martin Klingensmith
infoarchive.net
nnytech.net
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 20:02, Tim Clevenger wrote:
> I'm with Gail. I'm all for a replacement for the SJSU's software (i.e.
> something that can convert, rather than delete, HTML or rich text posts).
> If there's a web-based server that also can send out mail in individual
> and digest format like we have now, and has a decent search engine to
> boot, I'd be happy to contribute $10/year to keep it running. But every
> web-only package I've seen is a pain in the butt, and keeping track of
> the last message read in each little forum is even worse.
>
> Tim
>
> ---------
> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:02:12 -0800 (PST)
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: A better forum for EV and politics
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> It seems to me that this has been brought up before and as a group we
> decided we really like what we have, and do not want to switch to a system
> which would be less convenient for many. I don't know what snitz or
> vbulletin are, but if I had to open a browser to get to the evlist
> messages I would unsubscribe. I have browsers on a PC, on a unix system
> and on my Mac, but I almost never use them for e-mail. I don't like all
> the junk the intrudes via html code, whether you want to see it or not.
>
> Why would an evlist want a section for diesels? Is there a battery
> powered diesel available now?
>
> Gail
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips here.
> http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[Broadcasted to all EV, hybrid and BD groups]
-
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/honda-hybrid/message/13897
[...]
Hybrid, Electric Vehicle and Bio-diesel
Rally and Parade at LA Auto Show
Saturday, January 10,12:00 Noon
Downtown Los Angeles
(Assemble at St. Vincent�s Church Parking Lot, Adams and Figueroa
[entrance on Figueroa], 1 mile south of Convention Center; then drive
together to the Los Angeles Convention Center, 1201 S. Figueroa)
[...]
-
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/toyota-prius/message/68380
-
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:22:39 -0800
From: "Dency" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: LA Car Show
Dear Bruce,
Can you please give me any information about a planned
demonstration of hybrids and EVs at the LA Car Show tomorrow?
As a RAV4EV driver I would very much like to participate.
Thank you very much...
Dency L. Nelson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
310-xxx-xxxx
-
=====
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor & RE newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
=====
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I could go for that. I don't much care for the present search
engine(s).
The question is: how far back would your archive go? Could you import
older stuff from the other archives, or would you start fresh, forcing
us to use three search engines?
Thanks,
Doug
On Friday, January 9, 2004, at 10:30 PM, Martin Klingensmith wrote:
I run what I call the "infoarchive" at http://infoarchive.net/
I've been planning on starting to archive this list but I haven't
gotten
around to it. It's not really what you would call a web interface -
it's
read only of course. But if anyone is interested then I will setup the
archive for this list. I have pretty good full-text searching
capabilities.
--
Martin Klingensmith
infoarchive.net
nnytech.net
On Fri, 2004-01-09 at 20:02, Tim Clevenger wrote:
I'm with Gail. I'm all for a replacement for the SJSU's software
(i.e.
something that can convert, rather than delete, HTML or rich text
posts).
If there's a web-based server that also can send out mail in
individual
and digest format like we have now, and has a decent search engine to
boot, I'd be happy to contribute $10/year to keep it running. But
every
web-only package I've seen is a pain in the butt, and keeping track of
the last message read in each little forum is even worse.
Tim
---------
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 15:02:12 -0800 (PST)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: A better forum for EV and politics
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
It seems to me that this has been brought up before and as a group we
decided we really like what we have, and do not want to switch to a
system
which would be less convenient for many. I don't know what snitz or
vbulletin are, but if I had to open a browser to get to the evlist
messages I would unsubscribe. I have browsers on a PC, on a unix
system
and on my Mac, but I almost never use them for e-mail. I don't like
all
the junk the intrudes via html code, whether you want to see it or
not.
Why would an evlist want a section for diesels? Is there a battery
powered diesel available now?
Gail
_________________________________________________________________
Rethink your business approach for the new year with the helpful tips
here.
http://special.msn.com/bcentral/prep04.armx
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.homedns.org:8100/weblog/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<Just out of curiosity Dave, would you be referring to an overly rude
"pal"? Personally I don't have any "pals" who are consistently rude and
tend to filter them out of my life, so I appear to have missed the posts
you are referring to>>
Peter, would it make any difference if it was signed, "your pal, Shawn Bell"?
It's true the EVDL doesn't get a lot of pseudonymous listees, so that may a
bone with some.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anybody know anything about this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2453448878&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1
Sounds like a nice van with advanced drive system.
Experimental batteries (i think they were sodium-sulpher or
something... arent those volitile?)
AC drive, sounds like it was integrated into an experimental axle.
Any chance that this is maintainable?
I would immagine that it is possible to get a title
on such a vehicle, but difficult.
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Johann Joseph wrote:
Has anyone considered a more modern EV message board?
Just yesterday Ryan Bohm opened:
http://www.evsource.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
I'm sure he's not the first to try.
These lists tend to have the momentum, and its hard to switch.
I am among many other users here (i'm sure) that has
his own server. Just a regular-old home DSL set-up
with an x86 based UN*X server. (Usually LINUX or *BSD).
I'm always happy to let people use it for such purposes,
but I don't provide professional-style backups or
up-time guarantees.
Seems to me that Mr. Bohm, or some other EV-based business
with a LINUX or other UN*X based server could host such a
forum. This is not my area of expertese, but there are
many free packages available for such services.
If any business out there has co-lo or provides their
own internet service, this would be of little expense
and help market their business. If you have virtual
hosting it would cost you some disk space that you might
need to pay for.
I'd help as I can. This is a big world-wide list, so I'm
a bit afraid to take on responsibility for it. My server
goes down for hours at a time when I'm working on wiring
for my EV ;-)
--
Aaron Birenboim | This space available!
Albuquerque, NM |
aaron_at_birenboim.com |
>http://aaron.boim.com |
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One of the risks is that some users may leave here, while others may stay,
resulting in a fragmented user base that eventually falls below 'critical
mass', killing both online worlds. I've seen this happen many times with
electronic social enviornments.
For my part, to reduce this tendancy I have closed the evtech phorums and
pointed them to evsource's bbs. (I have kept the Wiki open, and I do hope
that some day it will grow into a useful resource. For those of you not
familiar with Wikis, they are web sites that anyone can edit, along with
systems that ensure that edits can always be regressed.
However, I hope the EVDL will always live on as I rather like the format,
and it has a good user base which has many useful ideas and commentary.
S.
> Johann Joseph wrote:
> > Has anyone considered a more modern EV message board?
>
> Just yesterday Ryan Bohm opened:
>
> http://www.evsource.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl
>
> I'm sure he's not the first to try.
> These lists tend to have the momentum, and its hard to switch.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
40V brush motor
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2587552717&category=42920&rd=1
74Vdc BLDC motor
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2587553868&category=42920&rd=1
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I have (finally) started to clean up some of the wiring in my truck.
>
> More twisting, extra shielding, and ... worse results. Hmmmm.
>
> What type of cabling do other people use? I thought about network
> cabling (i.e. CAT5) as it is very tightly twisted, but it is a much
> smaller gauge wire and not rated for the voltage. Do other people have
> similar interference or am I just unlucky?
>
I had the same problem when I went to a higher voltage, 120 the motor work
fine ,but above 156 my e meter did the same , I moved the shunt a few
batteries away for the controller and it worked fine , the problem with this
is you can't use a high voltage scaler and have to read voltage off one
battery, but a volt meter is an easy add on , then just use e meter for amps
and ah.
twustubg didn't work of me either. \
steve clunn
>
> _________
> Jim Coate
> 1992 Chevy S10
> 1970's Elec-Trak
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Has anyone told these hydrogen guys it's going to cost a lot to run on
> hydrogen. When people find out it's going to cost 2 to 8 times as much as
> gas(this is only a guess) do you think anyone will use it? Lawrence
> Rhodes...If you are writing bills I hope you take this into
> account...............
>
>From talking to people on the street , the thing that is on the minds most
is running out of juice on the street, . Like a spare tire, ( which I don't
carry because of the added weight) they want to know they have a way out.
Now I'm just throwing out ideas , but if a small fuel cell with 1 gallon H
was in the trunk ( already starting to sound like a bad idea) , that could
be used as a back up for running out of juice this might help sell
BEV's . I have not been so hot on hydrogen as it just seems like another
way of not doing anything , just wait till "they" do something , but I'm
starting to see it a little their way. Open you mind and let your brain
fall out for a minute :-) . A battery EV with fuel cell adding on, drive
and plug like you do now but when you want to go on the lone trip you run on
the H, so it cost a lot for the long trip , . I would be quite happy with a
240v 50 amp plug and a book , and this seems easer than a H gas station but
that's me. When I put my brain back in my head it all looks like a lot of
money . like a car that can be driven in the water, nice idea but not
practical for everybody . BEV's work so well when used for what they do
best, 30 miles runs ( hat's off you ev's who do more ) . Fast charging is
here now, and doesn't cost near as much. What I tell people sometimes is "
the right tool for the job, need a saw , don't pick up a hammer , need a
hammer don't try and use a saw, " . TV ad for BEV's , carpenter and
helper, carpenter working with new hybrid hammer/saw and not doing very
good, helper " Joe , your new tool seem to be giving you a lot of trouble,
what gives " Joe " Well Steve it's a hybrid " as Joe tries to nail a nail
with saw flopping around , " Its the new way" Steve " sounds like those hi
bread cars , you can't plug them in , can't fix them without a collage
degree , charge the batteries with gas " . 2nd carpenter comes in with 3
foot level /electric drill, "that's right Steve you got to get with the
hybrid program. " pan to all electric car " the right tool for the job , you
already got your gas car" last seen , Steve at home watching hybrid
TV/water cooler, when wife gets glass of water from TV set and sparks blows
up TV . Before Ya shoot me with you combo gun and knife, I'm a gas Brunner
to ( sometimes ) and just throwing out ideas,
I my shoot this one for EVTV ( thanks Bob for the ev footage , so far your
the only one to send anything) .
Steve Clunn
with combo e-meter , reads amp, volts ,annnnnnd ah ( would you buy one if it
had a clock to?)
www.grassrootsev.com
--- End Message ---
