EV Digest 3916
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Fw: STM5-180 NiCad
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 36V Solar Power System (OT?)
by "James F. Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Bulk and Finishing Charger with PFC Chargers (was Re: Modular Chargers)
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Recycle Ni-Cads
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Ni-Cad charging
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: 36V Solar Power System (OT?)
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: variac turn-on? maybe ot
by "Andre Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Ni-Cad charging
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Hybrid compared to EV in fuel cost.
by Alan Batie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 36V Solar Power System (OT?)
by Bob Siebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: ADC 9.1" Motor Torque
by "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Modular Chargers
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) How best to replace stinker?
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ni-Cad charging
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Feedback on EV high voltage system
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: How best to replace stinker?
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Feedback on EV high voltage system (version 1.1)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 36V Solar Power System (OT?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EV digest 3913 - attachments getting through?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Feedback on EV high voltage system (version 1.1)
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Nissan X-Trail FCV
by Claudio Natoli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) 50hz,60hz does it really matter?
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) please help with cable specs
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: please help with cable specs
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
by "Klemkosky, Mark A" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
what a pitty being on this side off the pond, i now about 80 like new
STM5-140MR sitting and nobody to use them....because here in France there is
no way to put a conversion on the road, law is law :^(
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 1:58 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: STM5-180 NiCad
> Hi Mark and All,
> The only way to tell if a ni-cad batt is good
> is with a capacity test like Phillipe suggested.
> Another thing to look out for is a white
> crust growing inside the case. If more than 10% of
> the surface is covered, beware.
> But the real proof is to is how much they
> will hold. Put a couple cycles on them first to get
> the chemicals moving together. Low ones cycle a few
> more times and see if they come up.
> Voltage is NO help on how good they are.
> My SAFT's are getting near 30 yrs old now and
> still going strong over rated cap.
> It's a lot of work but worth it as they are
> likely to last 20 more yrs if not abused badly. They
> are hard batts to kill. I've done things to mine that
> would destroy any other batt like leaving them on a C1
> charge for 12 hrs!!! Put water in them and they went
> back working!
> I'd really try to get them cheaper!!! They will
> have costs, hassle recycling them so may be willing to
> lower the costs to get rid of them.
> SAFTs generally are 110% of their rated value
> cap wise so start your measuring from there. I'd be
> surprised if many were lower than 100% rated amphrs.
> HTH's,
> jerry dycus
>
>
>
> --- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone have an email or phone contact at Saft
> > to answer some questions? I'm trying to figure out
> > how much life is left in 1996' NiCad batteries.
> > Thanks, Mark
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mark Hanson
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 8:27 AM
> > Subject: STM5-180
> >
> >
> > Dear Saft,
> >
> > There are your Ni-Cad STM5-180 batteries from 1996
> > that were used in AVS Electric busses being sold
> > from California for $200 ea. I'll need 20 +2 spares
> > for my Electric Jeep and was wondering how these
> > batteries can be tested to ensure that a long life
> > is left? What is the typical cycle life? Do I do a
> > discharge measurement and see if it is still 180 AH?
> > Is it a linear relationship, if I have 170ah left,
> > per se, then I would have 94% life left? Do you have
> > a graph of AH remaining VS expected life cycles?
> >
> > Thanks, Mark E. Hanson
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, they are nice, I'm thinking about getting one for my I-5 to
replace the stock charger and have massive amounts of 110 anywhere I
need it. The problem is they are modifiied sine wave, not true sine. I
can't use that for my house. It would work ok for Lights and basic
resisitive loads, but would not do well with many types of motors, and
computers tend to hate them.
James
MYLES ANTHONY TWETE wrote:
Not many choices James-
Best bet might be the Tripplite APS inverter/chargers:
http://www.lashen.com/vendors/tripplite/inverters/aps.asp#APS3636VR
They run about $1000. 3600w continuous, 7200w peak....unsure if you can stack
these for 220v.
I've been thinking of getting one of these for my 36v boat battery
charger---they're rated at 30A charging.
-Myles Twete, Portland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Otmar mentioned this. This is a CHEAP concept... and worthy of pulling off.
If the residual Permag is the Key, then your turn off control is just as
important as your turn. The two go hand in hand.
More stuftf to think about....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 8:16 AM
Subject: Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 20:45:36 -0800, Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> > Lee has been educating me today... but I just don't buy the power up
at
> > peak not trough.
>
> I think it is to do with the transformer saturating momentarily when
> switched on. I know that the "inrush" surge can last for several
> cycles and I've noticed too that sometimes it happens and makes a big
> "thump", other times less so or not at all.
>
> If I remember correctly, whether it saturates or not *is* down to
> what Arthur mentioned before - the magnetic polarisation left from
> when you last switched it off. So it could be that switching it on at
> the "right" phase angle is meaningless unless you know what polarity
> it was switched off at... sound plausible?
>
> There is a way around this though - pre-charge it, like you would a
> controller! Just connect a lightbulb via a small switch or SCR in
> series with the transformer for a second before you throw in the main
> switch.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Funny that we are having this discussion. I just made
my PFC charger into a bulk charger and a finishing
charger.
I made a simple board with a DPDT relay, an
opto-isolator with a triac output, and 2 trim pots.
The relay is turned on by the blue LED of the charger.
With the relay on, it connects the 2 trim pots in
parallel with the charger's current and voltage pots.
In other words, the instance the blue LED turns on,
the charger changes its current and voltage settings.
This allows the charger to have an aggressive bulk
phase and a gentle finishing phase.
I now set the charger to recharge to 14.5V per battery
at max current before dropping to a low 3A current
with a max voltage of 15V. And, since my own
regulators could handle 3.3A, my batteries are happy
with this gentle current. In real life charging, this
translates to a max current bulk charge until the last
3-4Ah. And, the finishing charge lasts a bit over 1.5
hours. My E-meter is showing a charging efficiency of
95% and 0.5Ah after a full charge. Nice!
I realized later that this curve mimics the NiCad
charging curve. If the finishing voltage is set high
enough, it would become a constant current phase. I
made a board for Ed Thorpe since he will be using his
PFC-50 on his Saft NiCads. It would be interesting to
see how well this works.
Ed Ang
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> allows a variety of charging options such as using a
> fast bulk charger
> on the pack in parallel mode, then switching to a
> smaller charger on the
> individual batteries for the finishing charge and
> balance.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I was told to check about how hard it is to recycle ni-cads before I buy
them. I couldn't find anyone around here, does anyone know of a recycling
center near Roanoke, VA? Do I have to pay or do they pay me something for
recycling ni-cads?
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was told that STM5-180's had to be charged at a 14A rate per the manual. Why
would it matter whether I charge at the recommended 14A for 13 hours or 7A for
26 hours or 28A for 7.5 hours?
I was also curious about setting up (automatic watering) the watering hosing in
a cold climate, since the lines and fill tank would freeze in the winter. Does
anyone have experience with watering these when it's cold?
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Four bucks isn't bad considering. Gasoline will be there soon. However I
drive a CNG van. Due to the inefficiencies of the ICE we are probably
costing the same. EV's are a lot cheaper to run in general. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
$4 per gallon for H2 derived from Natural Gas due to inefficiencies from
Air
Products H2 supplier. Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
What is the cost of the Hydrogen per gallon of gas equlivant? Lawrence
Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 5:38 AM
Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
> Lawrence,
>
> That is about right...150 to 200 miles depending on
> who is driving. As you noted that is a sizeable
> vehicle (and heavy).
> As for being ~90 miles from Sacramento, there are
> atleast a couple fueling stations in the bay area
> where the car can refuel on the way home (i believe
> Chevron just opened a new one in Oakland).
>
> Oh yeah, no 'anti-static suit' required (don't believe
> everything you read on the EVDL). Takes just a couple
> minutes to re-fuel, easy enough for you or I to do it.
>
>
> ~Fortunat
>
> --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> How much range Fortunat? It was 90 miles from
>> Sacramento. The plates were
>> Michigan plates. It had the funny little Japanese
>> mirrors up front on the
>> fenders. I'm assuming a 150 to 200 mile range.
>> Lawrence Rhodes......
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:55 AM
>> Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
>>
>>
>> > Lawrence,
>> >
>> > was it greenish ?
>> > I assume when you say dealer plates, you mean
>> > M-plates, right ?
>> > I think that is one of ours (not really ours, but
>> we
>> > did all the hard work :)). There are four of these
>> X
>> > trail vehicles that live at the California Fuel
>> Cell
>> > Partnership in Sacramento. I assume this is one of
>> > them.
>> >
>> > I am glad to hear it is getting some use.
>> >
>> > ~fortunat
>> >
>> > --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I was driving across the Bay Bridge Wednesday
>> night
>> >> and fell in line behind
>> >> a Nissan FCV. The name was X-Trail. It was big.
>> >> Michigan dealer plates.
>> >> Typical Japanese setup as far as the mirrors. A
>> >> real concept car. God
>> >> knows what they were doing driving it across
>> >> country. Lawrence
>> >> Rhodes.......
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > __________________________________
>> > Do you Yahoo!?
>> > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
>> > www.yahoo.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> www.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been running my place on a Trace 2512SB for about 10 years. The only
things I have had problems with was a charger for a 12 Dewalt drill, any UPS
for the computer, and inexpensive radios.
Computers, desk and laptop, inkjet printers, microwave, TV, VCR, DVD, CF
lighting, vacuum, handheld shop tools (even variable speed) all work fine.
Induction motors make a little more noise and run a little hotter but work
fine.
My inverter is an older one with a massive 60hz transformer and may deal
with reactive loads better then other types.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James F. Jarrett
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 2:41 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 36V Solar Power System (OT?)
<< snip >>
> can't use that for my house. It would work ok for Lights and basic
> resisitive loads, but would not do well with many types of motors, and
> computers tend to hate them.
>
> James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I like the light bulb.
It also provides the option of a cheap and dirty constant current mode for
an equalizing charge.
Thanks,
Andre' B. Clear Lake Wis.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth Murray
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 6:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: variac turn-on? maybe ot
On Nov 13, 2004, at 3:27 PM, Arthur Matteson wrote:
> > ...I would be curious what the original inquirer thinks at this point.
>
> Hey Arthur, Rich, Lee, Neon, and all,
>
> thanks for all the replies. As far as I'm concerned, this stuff is the
> meat of the EV list. Although no one seems to be able to agree on
> theory (I was confused too, which is why I posted), it seems like zero
> crossing SSRs were designed for this purpose so I'm getting one like I
> had planned. I'll know whether it works soon, although I may not be
> able to look at it on the scope since its not isolated. Maybe I
> should try to model the variac in Spice and see she does. Time to work
> on the controller.
>
> seth
>
> --
> '72 Datsun 240Z Electric Conversion
> http://users.wpi.edu/~sethm/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
The TEVan charges at 24A on 240Vac single phase.
Each group of six batteries in a series watering
string has a systolic pump. After filling the last
cell in a string extra water goes into a resivior with
a float so it doesn't overfill. After watering is
finished the systolic pump runs backwards for 10
minutes or so to clear excess water in the lines.
I haven't had any lines freeze in Ohio.
Note: Specific Gravity of NiCd's doesn't change with
charge level. It will change proportionally as water
is boiled off during charging.
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was told that STM5-180's had to be charged at a
> 14A rate per the manual. Why would it matter whether
> I charge at the recommended 14A for 13 hours or 7A
> for 26 hours or 28A for 7.5 hours?
>
> I was also curious about setting up (automatic
> watering) the watering hosing in a cold climate,
> since the lines and fill tank would freeze in the
> winter. Does anyone have experience with watering
> these when it's cold?
>
> Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Nov 16, 2004 at 12:12:39PM -0800, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> 2003 Toyota RAV4 EV
> 112 Toyota RAV4 EV
> $362 Toyota RAV4 EV
2005 Ford Escape Hybrid
26-27 mpg seems to be what I'm getting; a little lower in town because
Corvallis is small enough, about half the time you're there before the
engine warms up and can shut off.
--
Alan Batie ______ alan.batie.org Me
alan at batie.org \ / www.qrd.org The Triangle
PGPFP DE 3C 29 17 C0 49 7A \ / www.pgpi.com The Weird Numbers
27 40 A5 3C 37 4A DA 52 B9 \/ spamassassin.taint.org NO SPAM!
The voters have spoken. Let's hope we survive the result.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James:
I'd optimize the house side of the system. Use a high voltage inverter
for easy wiring and give it enough capacity to serve the 36 volt
applications as well. I think you'll find that this will be the least
cost and most reliable approach. Frequency converters are likely to be
rare, inefficient and, in the case of rotating machinery, noisy.
/Bob
On Tuesday, November 16, 2004, at 12:18 PM, James F. Jarrett wrote:
Several weeks ago I mentioned that I wanted to build a solar charging
shed for my Elec-Trak I-5. As is so often the case in these projects,
it has taken on a life of it's own.
My wife and I are in the process of designing/building a new house.
This house, when completed will be grid attached, but will have a
substantial solar/wind power system to provide for 90+ % of it's
energy needs.
Since all of my electric vehicles are 36v, (ET-12M ET I-5, Golf cart)
I had thought about making the whole system 36v. That way, in a
pinch, the energy stored in the ET's and or the Golf Cart could be
used for backup house power. By my calculations, a fully charged
Elec-Trak with good batteries could provide 100% of my homes energy
for more than a day. That is a very NICE backup indeed.
I can find 36v wind turbines to add to the system easily. Solar
panels can be wired 3 in series for a 36v nominal array, and I can
find 36v charge controllers easily enough on the internet. My problem
is finding a 36v 60 hz true-sine inverter of sufficient power.
I can find 36v 50hz models all day long. They are common down under,
but a 60 hz version I can't seem to find. Ideally I want to provide
my house with 220 60 hz power. For a 12, 24, or 48v system, that is
typically done by putting two 110v 60 hz systems in series.
Does anyone know of EITHER a manufacturer of 36v powered 60hz 110
sine wave inverters, OR 36v powered 60hz 220 sine wave inverters, OR
know of a product that can convert 36v powered 50 hz 220 sine wave
into 220 60 hz?
Thanks in Advance.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the numbers!
> Note... you get these torque numbers only if you are moving the amps and
> are NOT making fireballs at the same time. Having the comm dissapear into a
> plasma ball, and you get a LOT less torque for the same amps...You get
> more light, and lots of copper snot!!
LOL. It sounds like you're speaking from experience here, Rich? :-)
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Sun, 2004-11-14 at 22:55, Rich Rudman wrote:
> About 500 lbs of torque with 2000 amps
> about 200 with 1000 amps
>
> EVparts has amps/torque, and volts and RPM curves.
> I have copies somewheres.
>
> Note... you get these torque numbers only if you are moving the amps and
are
> NOT making fireballs at the same time. Having the comm dissapear into a
> plasma ball, and you get a LOT less torque for the same amps...You get
more
> light, and lots of copper snot!!
--
--signature--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I know you know this :-) Since you directed your answer
to Don who may not know, I was "extending" your answer to Don
by stressing that SOC is not the same as equal voltages.
I wasn't trying to tell this to you.
Sorry for confusion
Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Lee, wiring the cells in parallel will in a while equalize
voltages on them, but will not *balance* them.
Yes, I know. This works for lead-acids, where voltage is a function of
state of charge; so paralleled lead-acids do tend to self-balance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everybody.
A couple of weeks ago one of my batteries went bad. I had what Bob Rice
calls a "trojan teakettle". I had to leave the Citroen out at the
cottage and press the Mazda into service (nice thing about having 2
evs). On Sunday I went out there to check things out. With a fully
charged but c-cold pack I drove up and down the road for 30 Ah then
parked and checked voltages with just the heaters on. With the heaters
drawing 30 amps #14 was down to 5.7 volts; the others were all clustered
around 6.9 volts. No way this caniche is going anywhere without a
replacement.
What is the best way to replace this battery? It is a US250HC,
nominally 275Ah. The battery box can accommodate a variety of
replacements. I can't find a used replacement of that capacity. I do
have a couple of used T-105's. Or I could buy new. I've read on this
list that it is not a good thing to put a new one in a string of oldies.
These guys are a year and a half old, with 175 cycles according to the
emeter. I presume that if I put in a new 250HC, then it will tend to get
overcharged (?) as I draw out less of its total capacity compared to the
remaining capacity of the old ones. It might also hold the pack voltage
up a bit, hiding discharge abuse of the weaker ones, though I doubt that
would be a big issue.
Should I put in the used T-105? Buy a new 250HC or buy a new T-125 or
145 (I'm wondering if a new battery of lower initial capacity might be a
better match for the old guys). Price isn't much of an issue here - a
T-125 equivalent is about C$30 less than a 250HC. ($C95 for a U2300 from
my friendly local Interstate dealer).
Mike Hoskinson
Edmonton
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I charge at 230VAC 14A which turn to feed batteries with constant 20A until
100 % capacity returned then overcharge at 5A for 2 more hours.
Waterfilling sytem is gravity based no pump, 20 batteries on 4 watering ,
read connector, circuits (3, 5, 6, 6) you put water on one side it spill on
the other when finish, repeat four times, et voilà.
System is open at end and connector is normaly closed if not in use.
Never had a problem when cold, and we have regulary less than -20°C here.
(I'm finishing to install electric ceramic heater because i'm tired putting
petrol in Webasto water heater system)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:14 PM
Subject: Ni-Cad charging
I was told that STM5-180's had to be charged at a 14A rate per the manual.
Why would it matter whether I charge at the recommended 14A for 13 hours or
7A for 26 hours or 28A for 7.5 hours?
I was also curious about setting up (automatic watering) the watering hosing
in a cold climate, since the lines and fill tank would freeze in the winter.
Does anyone have experience with watering these when it's cold?
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bryan, careful,
If you do wire it like this and leave heater [enable] on,
inverter most likely will not start since the heater will load
precharge resistors so that the voltage inverter reads may be
lower than Ubat_min. In worst case, precharge resistors may
burn out since designed to provide short burst of precharge
current, not to run your heater.
Victor
Bryan Avery wrote:
Is your charger isolated? If not, remember that ALL high voltage wiring
should be built to UL/NEC type standards. Things connected to >the AC line
(either directly or indirectly) have to survive tremendous voltage peaks.
At
a minimum, everything has to survive 1500
volts to ground.
I intend on using a PFC-30. Yes, I will isolate the charger from the
frame
of the car (Rich suggested this when I spoke with him). I am a little
concerned that the heater high voltage may be a weak link and not be up to
the 1500 volt isolation. Any suggestions?
You might try wiring in the heater *after* the main contactors. This has
the disadvantage of not allowing you to run the heater with the ignition
off, but insures that the heater will never be connected while the AC is
connected to the charger (assuming you use a charge interlock relay to
disable the contactors while AC is connected, which is a good idea).
This is the method I ended up going with for my car. Of course, my concern
was with the normal fully charged pack voltage (in my case, worst-case
scenario could be close to 400V) being too much for the heater, rather than
surges from the AC line.
Bryan Avery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Typo. When the stinker read 5.7 volts the others were near 6.09, not
6.9!
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don, if you want to do this, use other set of your own contactors just
to isolate PFC30.
Please do not improvise and wire the drive system according to the
scnematic in the
installation manual. There is nothing in this schematic between
contactors output
side and inverter input. Do not connect anything between contactor box
and inverter input.
(There are no means to do this unless you cut supplued cables in half).
Inverter precharge circuitry is used to supply voltage to the measuring
circuitry.
If you load precharge ckt with anything other than input capacitors,
inverter will
detect the fault and in best case will not start. In worst case
precharte resistors will
burn out trying to run any load you may leave on (e.g. using main
contactors as on/off
switch for that load).
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
Don Cameron wrote:
OK, I have revamped the circuit. Version 1.1 can be found at:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/High%20Voltage%20System.jpg
Here is what I have done based upon the feedback from Mark, Lee, Al and
Gary:
1. I have moved the ammeter, voltmeter and heater on the other side of the
contactors. This will ensure there are no potential high voltage spikes in
those circuits.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James F. Jarrett wrote:
> My problem is finding a 36v 60 hz true-sine inverter of sufficient
> power... Does anyone know of EITHER a manufacturer of 36v powered
> 60hz 110 sine wave inverters, OR 36v powered 60hz 220 sine wave
> inverters, OR know of a product that can convert 36v powered 50 hz
> 220 sine wave into 220 60 hz?
I have a Pacific Scientific motor-generator; it runs on 36vdc, and
outputs 120vac 60hz. The output is (obviously) an excellent sinewave,
with very good overload capacity. Mine happens to be 900w continuous,
1350w surge (5 minutes); but they come in many sizes.
Another approach is to use a 50hz inverter anyway. Most likely
everything in your home except clocks will run on 50hz.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey just sent out "Please ignore" test message
and attached small image of Civic; and this is first time I see
.jpg image attached to an email to the list getting through.
Have the settings to filter out attachments indeed changed?
That would be disasterous...
Victor
--
'91 ACRX - something different
Ryan Bohm wrote:
Has anyone else been seeing attachments coming with the digest? I have
seen a joke.scr and price.com - these look fishy to me, and of course I
haven't tried opening them. I thought the EVDL blocked attachments?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure, but law suites loose money. If Ford will be mandated to
produce EVs and treatened to be sued otherwise, they will change
their business model *real* quick, precisely because their bottom
line will hurt. How else can you do it if they only speak money?
Victor
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Business models make money. Bottom line. It appears Ford thinks
electric vehicles will take from their bottom line. Lawrence
Rhodes..........
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
Danny Ames wrote:
Sue Ciske was calling the Ford Think City program an experiment to find
out if this is technology that had any future and we found it
didn't. Reporter Anna Werner, "but these were popular cars"
Sue Ciske, "Right but is that were you think the American Auto Industry
is going to a bunch of little go carts that are driving around, at the
end of the day it did not fit with our business model"
All they need to do then is change their business model, so EVs will
fit. Simple as that.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 2004-11-16 at 16:19, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Don, if you want to do this, use other set of your own contactors just
> to isolate PFC30.
>
Easier alternative is to use one contactor upstream in series with
Siemens contactor. Wire this contactor to close with ignition.
Victor is correct, this schematic would be a good thing for a DC car
(with separate components) but for the Siemens system bad things could
happen. The ammeter and voltmeter are no big deal (except you will be
opening the HV box, and possibly voiding the warranty), but the heater
will likely destroy the precharge resistors.
I would also consider adding a fuse on both the positive and negative
lines to the meters if it is not too cost prohibitive.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One point to note: keep in mind that North America is likely to systemic
face Natural Gas shortages in the coming years. With H2 produced in
commerical quantities by decomposing NG, expect to see H2 costs rise in
step.
Cheers,
Claudio
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lawrence Rhodes [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, 17 November 2004 8:18 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
>
>
> Four bucks isn't bad considering. Gasoline will be there soon. However I
> drive a CNG van. Due to the inefficiencies of the ICE we are probably
> costing the same. EV's are a lot cheaper to run in general.
> Lawrence
> Rhodes......
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2004 10:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
>
>
> > $4 per gallon for H2 derived from Natural Gas due to inefficiencies from
> > Air
> > Products H2 supplier. Mark
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 2:14 PM
> > Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
> >
> >
> >> What is the cost of the Hydrogen per gallon of gas
> equlivant? Lawrence
> >> Rhodes.......
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 5:38 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
> >>
> >>
> >> > Lawrence,
> >> >
> >> > That is about right...150 to 200 miles depending on
> >> > who is driving. As you noted that is a sizeable
> >> > vehicle (and heavy).
> >> > As for being ~90 miles from Sacramento, there are
> >> > atleast a couple fueling stations in the bay area
> >> > where the car can refuel on the way home (i believe
> >> > Chevron just opened a new one in Oakland).
> >> >
> >> > Oh yeah, no 'anti-static suit' required (don't believe
> >> > everything you read on the EVDL). Takes just a couple
> >> > minutes to re-fuel, easy enough for you or I to do it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ~Fortunat
> >> >
> >> > --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> How much range Fortunat? It was 90 miles from
> >> >> Sacramento. The plates were
> >> >> Michigan plates. It had the funny little Japanese
> >> >> mirrors up front on the
> >> >> fenders. I'm assuming a 150 to 200 mile range.
> >> >> Lawrence Rhodes......
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> >> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:55 AM
> >> >> Subject: Re: Nissan X-Trail FCV
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > Lawrence,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > was it greenish ?
> >> >> > I assume when you say dealer plates, you mean
> >> >> > M-plates, right ?
> >> >> > I think that is one of ours (not really ours, but
> >> >> we
> >> >> > did all the hard work :)). There are four of these
> >> >> X
> >> >> > trail vehicles that live at the California Fuel
> >> >> Cell
> >> >> > Partnership in Sacramento. I assume this is one of
> >> >> > them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I am glad to hear it is getting some use.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > ~fortunat
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I was driving across the Bay Bridge Wednesday
> >> >> night
> >> >> >> and fell in line behind
> >> >> >> a Nissan FCV. The name was X-Trail. It was big.
> >> >> >> Michigan dealer plates.
> >> >> >> Typical Japanese setup as far as the mirrors. A
> >> >> >> real concept car. God
> >> >> >> knows what they were doing driving it across
> >> >> >> country. Lawrence
> >> >> >> Rhodes.......
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > __________________________________
> >> >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >> >> > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> >> >> > www.yahoo.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________
> >> > Do you Yahoo!?
> >> > Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page.
> >> > www.yahoo.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unless your are running old analog clocks or want to go "on grid" with
this, why not just use 50hz. Most things I see have "50/60hz" operation
on them. Your wash machine will run a little longer maybe :-)
I just got my solar grid tie connected and it is too small (2.5kw) I
want more, I also would like whole house backup although I know that
here in California PG&E specifies no autonomy without an elaborate gen
switch. They really want it on a seperate circuit.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi
i need some advice on cable and lugs
my 48V etek motor 4QD controler combination needs a decent rewire
AWG specs are confusing the hell out of me as live in the UK and am used to
working in metric - mm2 etc
what is the metric equivalent of #4 welding cable and how is this different to
AWG 2 ?
the current draw on the etek is 300+ Amps max what cable and lugs does everyone
think I should use ?
I'm hoping there is someone more knowledgeable than me out there as I can't
face spending hours of my life trawling the net looking for comparisons
thanks in advance
Regards
Richard
---------------------------------
Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Humm, so they spent money to fight California to keep from having
to make EV's fit their business model. Perhaps some other states
should enact legislation to try and persuade them again.
L8r
Ryan
PS. Perhaps we can learn from past mistakes.
1. Charging stations are simple high power capacity grid connections.
( Becuse chargers should be onboard, obviousely IMHO )
etc...
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Sure, but law suites loose money. If Ford will be mandated to
produce EVs and treatened to be sued otherwise, they will change
their business model *real* quick, precisely because their bottom
line will hurt. How else can you do it if they only speak money?
Victor
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Business models make money. Bottom line. It appears Ford thinks
electric vehicles will take from their bottom line. Lawrence
Rhodes..........
----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
Danny Ames wrote:
Sue Ciske was calling the Ford Think City program an experiment to find
out if this is technology that had any future and we found it
didn't. Reporter Anna Werner, "but these were popular cars"
Sue Ciske, "Right but is that were you think the American Auto Industry
is going to a bunch of little go carts that are driving around, at the
end of the day it did not fit with our business model"
All they need to do then is change their business model, so EVs will
fit. Simple as that.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
heum 10 sec search:
http://www.vandenhul.com/artpap/awg.htm
300AMP is max voltage for few seconds, using 100amp average, 0 AWG or about
8,25mm diam wire will take that continuously.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "richard ball" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2004 12:47 AM
Subject: please help with cable specs
> Hi
> i need some advice on cable and lugs
> my 48V etek motor 4QD controler combination needs a decent rewire
> AWG specs are confusing the hell out of me as live in the UK and am used
to working in metric - mm2 etc
> what is the metric equivalent of #4 welding cable and how is this
different to AWG 2 ?
> the current draw on the etek is 300+ Amps max what cable and lugs does
everyone think I should use ?
> I'm hoping there is someone more knowledgeable than me out there as I
can't face spending hours of my life trawling the net looking for
comparisons
> thanks in advance
>
>
>
>
> Regards
> Richard
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Win a castle for NYE with your mates and Yahoo! Messenger
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm... I like pizza but I'm on a low carb diet. I think
we should force domestic pizza delivery places to
have low carb alternatives to keep me from getting
to fat. I hope this sounds idiotic?
How can you realistic force a company to make and
sell certain products? Companies stay in business
because they have smart people who analyze the
market and make good business decisions. It's not
about a popularity contest. Possibly Ford's plan is
to wait until EV's reach a threshold that better fits
their business model. Who knows? I would not hold
stock in a company that has to market certain
products based on the whim of one or two states.
--Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tue Nov 16 15:50:37 2004
Subject: Re: Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
Humm, so they spent money to fight California to keep from having
to make EV's fit their business model. Perhaps some other states
should enact legislation to try and persuade them again.
L8r
Ryan
PS. Perhaps we can learn from past mistakes.
1. Charging stations are simple high power capacity grid connections.
( Becuse chargers should be onboard, obviousely IMHO )
etc...
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Sure, but law suites loose money. If Ford will be mandated to
> produce EVs and treatened to be sued otherwise, they will change
> their business model *real* quick, precisely because their bottom
> line will hurt. How else can you do it if they only speak money?
>
> Victor
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
>> Business models make money. Bottom line. It appears Ford thinks
>> electric vehicles will take from their bottom line. Lawrence
>> Rhodes..........
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 4:39 PM
>> Subject: Re: Investigative TV on Ford's Broken Promises
>>
>>
>>> Danny Ames wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sue Ciske was calling the Ford Think City program an experiment to find
>>>> out if this is technology that had any future and we found it
>>>> didn't. Reporter Anna Werner, "but these were popular cars"
>>>> Sue Ciske, "Right but is that were you think the American Auto Industry
>>>> is going to a bunch of little go carts that are driving around, at the
>>>> end of the day it did not fit with our business model"
>>>
>>>
>>> All they need to do then is change their business model, so EVs will
>>> fit. Simple as that.
>>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
