EV Digest 3948
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 'Tis the Season for Power Funk at Skylark
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) "The air we breathe the Cars We Drive" Ecotainment
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Lectra blows homemade fuse
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Lectra Fuse, was: Re: Make your own fuse.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Subaru 600 jet electravan goes cheap
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: kWh/mile challenge
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Curtis and Switching Voltages
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 'Tis the Season for Power Funk at Skylark
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: dc motor control for electric vehicles
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: I love my Bill Dube crimper
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Well-to-wheel efficiency of BEVs
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Spain says solar power is mandatory
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: SAFT Nicads (aircraft starting)
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: "The air we breathe the Cars We Drive" Ecotainment
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Interesting URL
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) leased RAVs?
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) attack on clean-air requirements
by Sherry Boschert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Litium Battery Symposium December 7th
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: Well-to-wheel efficiency of BEVs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:42 PM
Subject: 'Tis the Season for Power Funk at Skylark
.
>
> Ideas? I haven't killed a charger yet, but I'd like to have some
> ideas to chew on for cheap brownout-funk protection.
>
> Thanks,
> Chuck
>
Man Chuck... You guys have Gofer Wood down there??? it's dumping up here
this after noon. I got 60 Regs through Reflow.... and then it got really
wet. It's supposed to really get wound up later in the evening, Wind to gust
to 75 on the Oregon coast, gust to 50 up here in the middle of Puget Sound.
Yes the Heart F25 is fully charged. It got tested the day before
Thanksgiving.... just a30 mph breeze brought all sorts of stuff down. 50 up
here is almost certain loss of Grid... If we got 75 I would have to saw my
way out to the highway....
The PFC chargers... I bring them up on the high power bench from Zero AC
to full line. This is a test that every one goes through. So I KNOW just
exactly what they do with a brown out. At less than 60 VAC they pulse on and
then die in a cycle mode until the grid gets stable enough to support the
15 volts supply switcher. At about 60 to 75 volts the Switcher locks in
solid and you can draw about 1/4 power This slides up to %100 power at full
grid. For a full amps at "110" you really need 120 with no sag. The 20s and
30s look like a 5 ohm resistor under 100 volts.
Your dimm light was loss of a single phase, and the other two phase
loads play Big honking resistor by back feeding the other leg. This is how
you cook AC induction motors, Full HZ 1/2 volts. They wanna pull 4X amps
trying in vain to stay at Sync speed. If things go dim at my place I will
open the Mains. As I have said I don't dim, I get Doug Fir assisted black
out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can one call this ecotainmaent ? Danny Ames (�)(2004)
Jackie Bennion who produced a documentary series sent me this link to
her work.
http://www.pbs.org/pov/borders/2004/air/index.html
We meet at a San Francisco restaurant last week.
I had mentioned the Think City funeral and she had mentioned the EV1
funeral.
Then she told me she produced a brief documentary on EV1 driver Chris
Paine for PBS.
Turns out she has done lots of work in similar areas.
Such a small world.
Danny Ames...
Cut from the link, "One of biggest factors affecting the quality of the
air we breathe is the vehicles we drive. Where better to go looking for
the problem and the solution than the Golden State?"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence, how about using old renewable links for a fuse? you can parallel
them for more amperage. I have a bunch of them, if someone wants to try it.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Lectra blows homemade fuse
> The ETEK started to pull real nice at 25mph up a hill and was just
starting
> to feel good when nothing. No volt meter. The fuse obviously didn't do
the
> job. I used the old fuse body and put three strings of solder as the
fuse.
> Not quite good enough. Lawrence Rhodes........
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Way too high amps.
Something is a miss inside the motor.
Pegging a 400 amp gage without burning rubber in first gear is the sign the
there is trouble.
Of course you now have the hardest and most expensive item to remove and
have serviced..
sorry.
The Raptor is doing it's thing. Your motor is sucking amps for some
reason.
The lack of power is the Raptor is handing you all the amps it can, and the
motor is not doing anything usefull with it.
I now have to ask What kind of motor and where did you get it from? 9 incher
right???
New, Used??? serviced??? By who?
250 amps on Goldie would have me flying along at 60 plus and accelerating.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
> Hi,
>
> With the ammeter in the MOTOR loop, I went for a short drive.
>
> >From a dead start, even in 1st gear, my 400 amp ammeter would peg
> instantly, even if I started out extremely slowly. Of course the amps
> would come down as the Jeep picked up speed.
>
> Just using 25mph as a test speed, I got the following current readings
> while holding the Jeep at 25 MPH on a very flat street:
>
> ------------25 MPH--------------
> 1st gear (~4000RPMs) 160 amps
> 2nd gear (~2000RPMs) 210 amps
> 3rd gear (<1800RPMs) 250 amps
>
> I noticed that even slight acceleration would cause the ammeter to peg
> in 2nd or 3rd gear. 1st gear was a bit better, but not by much. I could
> even peg the meter fairly effortlessly in reverse... my lowest gear.
>
> Someone let me know if this data is helpful towards diagnosing the
> problem or not...
>
> Thanks
> -Nick
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 16:21, Nick Viera wrote:
> > Hmmm... I sent this e-mail to the list yesterday and it didn't go
through??? :
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Okay, I got the shunt inserted into the motor loop now. I haven't been
> > out for a drive yet, but did measure the current on the motor side with
> > the car parked.
> >
> > With the transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged:
> > RPM MOTOR Amps
> > 1000 65
> > 1500 70
> > 2000 76
> > 2500 74
> > 3000 71
> > 3500 71
> > 4000 74
> > 4500 72
> >
> > With the transmission in neutral and the clutch DIS-engaged:
> > RPM MOTOR Amps
> > 1000 60
> > 2000 62
> > 3000 65
> > 4000 71
> >
> > The motor ALWAYS took at least 60 amps to keep it spinning. When I would
> > start the motor from a stop, it would pull up to 220 amps until it
> > picked up speed. When I would increase it's speed while it was already
> > spinning, it would pull 120-180 or so amps.
> >
> > Does this help diagnose the problem? Hopefully I'll have Motor current
> > readings with the motor under load by tomorrow.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Nick
> > 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> > http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------
> > > On Fri, 2004-12-03 at 23:44, Rich Rudman wrote:
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:45 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > > How hot does the motor get??
> > > > >
> > > > > I have noticed that the motor seems to get hot -- in opinion too
hot.
> > > > > Even after a shorter (~6 mile drive), the motor shaft and both
casing
> > > > > ends are too hot to touch. I'll try to get an actual temp. reading
from
> > > > > my multimeter (which has a temp. probe)...
> > > > >
> > > > > Now that I think about it, I have also noticed sort of a "burning
> > > > > brakes" smell coming from the motor after longer (~10+ mile)
trips. This
> > > > > is especially noticeable after trips which have included hills or
> > > > > inclines, which have included me pulling up to 380 amps on the
battery
> > > > > side. This smell is definitely NOT the front brakes. I've had
those
> > > > > fixed and they no longer smell. The smell comes straight up from
the
> > > > > motor. I thought at first that it might be due to the motor still
being
> > > > > relatively new, but now that I've got 468.4 EV miles on the Jeep
(I keep
> > > > > a good log), I can't imagine that being the case.
> > > > >
> > > > > > No load and a good speed should be like 25 to 50 amps...Motor
amps,
> > > > > > almost nothing battery amps.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just hooked back up the Tachometer sensor (which works ok when
it
> > > > > feels like it), and did a little test. With the transmission in
neutral,
> > > > > the motor pulls the following currents (give or take a few amps):
> > > > >
> > > > > RPM Current drawn (battery side current)
> > > > > 1000 8 amps
> > > > > 2000 15 amps
> > > > > 3000 20 amps
> > > > > 4000 40 amps
> > > > >
> > > > I'll say 4800 watts to spin up, that's 6.43 Hoursepower to
freespin....
> > > > Ok NOW we are getting somewheres......
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > These are BATTERY SIDE current readings, with NO load on the motor
> > > > > except for the spinning aluminum flywheel/hub, clutch disc, and
pressure
> > > > > plate. I'm guessing that this is way too much current being pulled
if
> > > > > I'm supposed to see no more than 50 motor amps?
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll try to get my 400 amp shunt in the motor loop this weekend if
I
> > > > > have some spare cables around here with eyelets on them...
otherwise
> > > > > I'll have to order some more and wait...
> > > > >
> > > > > Last questions... If this is a motor problem, I'm assuming it
could be
> > > > > repaired (at a motor shop)? Are motors like this usually expensive
to
> > > > > repair?
> > > >
> > > > Oh oh!
> > > > Well yea depending on the problems.
> > > > Most of us racers can do a 9" incher rebuild. Shipping is a few
hunder
> > > > bucks, you can't use UPS because the motor is too heavy.
> > > > A motor rebuild shop can help, ones that do fork truck and Golf
cart
> > > > rebuilds.
> > > >
> > > > And once you get it out... again.... Many on this list can lead you
through
> > > > testing and repair it it's simple bolt and unbolt stuff.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Lectra stock fuse is a 400 amp forklift fuse. 10 bucks. Lawrence
Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: Lectra Fuse, was: Re: Make your own fuse.
Hope this looks better. But basically yes. Is this a standard fuse?
Lawrence Rhodes.....
Top view
____________________ _
[____ | | | |
____)| |__|_| [_____|___________|_______|
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 1:26 PM
Subject: Lectra Fuse, was: Re: Make your own fuse.
At 06:50 AM 6/12/04 -0800, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
2 3/8" or 60mm fuse length this is center bolt to center bolt. The fuse
is flat with open ends (one at a 90� angle for insertion) and fits under
the top of the Lectra frame.
Hi Lawrence
Sort of like this?
|<-----60mm------->|
Top view
____________________ _
[____ | | | |
____)| |__|_| [_____|___________|_______|
Side view
___________
======|___________|========
I'd hazard a guess that it's not an HRC fuse and that the following
description fits the fuse (apart from the current rating):
FUSE, FORK LIFT TRUCK 355A;
Current, fuse rating: 355A;
Approval Bodies: DIN43560/1;
Centres, fixing: 60mm;
Depth, external: 10mm;
Diameter, fixing hole: 11mm;
Length / Height, external: 82mm;
Length, body: 32mm;
Material, case: Ceramic;
Voltage rating, DC: 80V;
Width, external: 22mm
If you go to http://au.farnell.com/ and in the search box stick 607721
you will see this fuse (price is in australian dollars). If so, it
should't be too hard to find locally to you - Farnell is the same company
as Newark, but you should be able to find it at a better price if you
shop around.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
> Nick, I hate to break this to you, but I really think
> you've got to disassemble your motor mount and see
> what's going on.
> It's not rocket science inside the motor. I'm a
> biology graduate, but I found myself replacing a brush
> holder several months ago, and advancing (or was it
> retarding) the brushes.
> Lots of people can repair motors, but if you've got
> a series wound, I think you'll find that you'll
> diagnose the problem faster than you can take it
> apart.
> How many seconds does it take to go from freewheel
> to a dead stop?
> The pegging is the weirdest part in my mind. True,
> to overcome inertia and get going requires the most
> amps, but pegging it out?
> I wish I had more expertise other than experience
> (more numbers) to help you out...
> best to you,
>
Yea I support this also.
The last motor that did this to me was John Lussmyer's Sparrow motor. The
comm was shorted because a couple of brush leads melted off and dripped
copper snott all over the comm shorting out many bars. Really ugly. It all
boiled down to somebody did not tighten the brush leads when they last put
it together. I am kinda anal about this now. Knowing me I will strip out
the screws now. This was a double check and check it again point while I was
doing Gone Poastal's motors.
The 9 incher should free spin on just 12 volts and about 30 amps. The rpm
should be in the 1500 to 2000 rpm. Pretty fast...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The selling price of the Milpitas Electravan was around 2k. A real bargain
for a cute dependable EV. Lawrence Rhodes.......
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
> Of course you now have the hardest and most expensive item to remove
> and have serviced..
Yes, but I've now had to remove and install this motor so many times
(mainly when I was having problems with clutch stuff), that I am getting
quite fast at doing so.
Of course, it is the expensive part which is my main problem. My ideal
plan would be to purchase a new motor to get the Jeep running properly
sooner rather than later. Then once the old motor is removed, I'd have
time to diagnose and (hopefully) fix the problem myself without feeling
rushed into doing so. Then I can use the fixed motor for my next EV
creation (oh yes, I want there to be more :-) ) Of course, this is
probably just wishful thinking at the moment...
> The Raptor is doing it's thing. Your motor is sucking amps for some
> reason. The lack of power is the Raptor is handing you all the amps it can,
I must say I've been very happy with the Raptor since I found that bad
connector and had it fixed. I was unhappy with it when I originally
bought it. But since that connector got fixed, it's been a very
dependable controller!
> I now have to ask What kind of motor and where did you get it from? 9
> incher right??? New, Used??? serviced??? By who?
I was brand new when I bought it from EVA in June 2003 (at the start of
the conversion process). It is the Advanced DC FB1-4001A 9.1" motor.
Of course, I didn't get the conversion in any sort of finished state
until this past August. So in actuality the motor hasn't seen a lot of
use (Jeep's only driven 476.1 miles, most of which was driven in the
last 5 months).
Thanks
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
------------------------------------------------
On Tue, 2004-12-07 at 21:36, Rich Rudman wrote:
> Way too high amps.
> Something is a miss inside the motor.
> Pegging a 400 amp gage without burning rubber in first gear is the sign the
> there is trouble.
> Of course you now have the hardest and most expensive item to remove and
> have serviced..
> sorry.
> The Raptor is doing it's thing. Your motor is sucking amps for some
> reason.
> The lack of power is the Raptor is handing you all the amps it can, and the
> motor is not doing anything usefull with it.
>
> I now have to ask What kind of motor and where did you get it from? 9 incher
> right???
> New, Used??? serviced??? By who?
> 250 amps on Goldie would have me flying along at 60 plus and accelerating.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 4:15 PM
> Subject: Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > With the ammeter in the MOTOR loop, I went for a short drive.
> >
> > >From a dead start, even in 1st gear, my 400 amp ammeter would peg
> > instantly, even if I started out extremely slowly. Of course the amps
> > would come down as the Jeep picked up speed.
> >
> > Just using 25mph as a test speed, I got the following current readings
> > while holding the Jeep at 25 MPH on a very flat street:
> >
> > ------------25 MPH--------------
> > 1st gear (~4000RPMs) 160 amps
> > 2nd gear (~2000RPMs) 210 amps
> > 3rd gear (<1800RPMs) 250 amps
> >
> > I noticed that even slight acceleration would cause the ammeter to peg
> > in 2nd or 3rd gear. 1st gear was a bit better, but not by much. I could
> > even peg the meter fairly effortlessly in reverse... my lowest gear.
> >
> > Someone let me know if this data is helpful towards diagnosing the
> > problem or not...
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Nick
> > 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> > http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------
> > On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 16:21, Nick Viera wrote:
> > > Hmmm... I sent this e-mail to the list yesterday and it didn't go
> through??? :
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Okay, I got the shunt inserted into the motor loop now. I haven't been
> > > out for a drive yet, but did measure the current on the motor side with
> > > the car parked.
> > >
> > > With the transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged:
> > > RPM MOTOR Amps
> > > 1000 65
> > > 1500 70
> > > 2000 76
> > > 2500 74
> > > 3000 71
> > > 3500 71
> > > 4000 74
> > > 4500 72
> > >
> > > With the transmission in neutral and the clutch DIS-engaged:
> > > RPM MOTOR Amps
> > > 1000 60
> > > 2000 62
> > > 3000 65
> > > 4000 71
> > >
> > > The motor ALWAYS took at least 60 amps to keep it spinning. When I would
> > > start the motor from a stop, it would pull up to 220 amps until it
> > > picked up speed. When I would increase it's speed while it was already
> > > spinning, it would pull 120-180 or so amps.
> > >
> > > Does this help diagnose the problem? Hopefully I'll have Motor current
> > > readings with the motor under load by tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > -Nick
> > > 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> > > http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------
> > > > On Fri, 2004-12-03 at 23:44, Rich Rudman wrote:
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 5:45 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > How hot does the motor get??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have noticed that the motor seems to get hot -- in opinion too
> hot.
> > > > > > Even after a shorter (~6 mile drive), the motor shaft and both
> casing
> > > > > > ends are too hot to touch. I'll try to get an actual temp. reading
> from
> > > > > > my multimeter (which has a temp. probe)...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now that I think about it, I have also noticed sort of a "burning
> > > > > > brakes" smell coming from the motor after longer (~10+ mile)
> trips. This
> > > > > > is especially noticeable after trips which have included hills or
> > > > > > inclines, which have included me pulling up to 380 amps on the
> battery
> > > > > > side. This smell is definitely NOT the front brakes. I've had
> those
> > > > > > fixed and they no longer smell. The smell comes straight up from
> the
> > > > > > motor. I thought at first that it might be due to the motor still
> being
> > > > > > relatively new, but now that I've got 468.4 EV miles on the Jeep
> (I keep
> > > > > > a good log), I can't imagine that being the case.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > No load and a good speed should be like 25 to 50 amps...Motor
> amps,
> > > > > > > almost nothing battery amps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just hooked back up the Tachometer sensor (which works ok when
> it
> > > > > > feels like it), and did a little test. With the transmission in
> neutral,
> > > > > > the motor pulls the following currents (give or take a few amps):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RPM Current drawn (battery side current)
> > > > > > 1000 8 amps
> > > > > > 2000 15 amps
> > > > > > 3000 20 amps
> > > > > > 4000 40 amps
> > > > > >
> > > > > I'll say 4800 watts to spin up, that's 6.43 Hoursepower to
> freespin....
> > > > > Ok NOW we are getting somewheres......
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > These are BATTERY SIDE current readings, with NO load on the motor
> > > > > > except for the spinning aluminum flywheel/hub, clutch disc, and
> pressure
> > > > > > plate. I'm guessing that this is way too much current being pulled
> if
> > > > > > I'm supposed to see no more than 50 motor amps?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'll try to get my 400 amp shunt in the motor loop this weekend if
> I
> > > > > > have some spare cables around here with eyelets on them...
> otherwise
> > > > > > I'll have to order some more and wait...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Last questions... If this is a motor problem, I'm assuming it
> could be
> > > > > > repaired (at a motor shop)? Are motors like this usually expensive
> to
> > > > > > repair?
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh oh!
> > > > > Well yea depending on the problems.
> > > > > Most of us racers can do a 9" incher rebuild. Shipping is a few
> hunder
> > > > > bucks, you can't use UPS because the motor is too heavy.
> > > > > A motor rebuild shop can help, ones that do fork truck and Golf
> cart
> > > > > rebuilds.
> > > > >
> > > > > And once you get it out... again.... Many on this list can lead you
> through
> > > > > testing and repair it it's simple bolt and unbolt stuff.
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Furniss wrote:
> Just a few more questions on the e-meter set up, battery capacity
> probability won't matter for this setup but what about the peukert
> exponent, will that need to be set to battery brand?
If you set it to display KWH (instead of amphours), then it doesn't
perform the Peukert corrections, and you get honest KWH.
> I was thinking of two switchs; turn off the high voltage wire to
> the meter first and then turn off the 12 volt power (SVR in box)
> to the meter before connecting or disconnecting any wires?
Once you have the prescaler wired right, all that's left are 12v (or
less) volt wires to the E-meter itself. So, there's no worry about which
wire gets connected first.
For your application, the "black box" would contain the E-meter,
prescaler, shunt, and a little 5-watt "universal input" switching power
supply with 12vdc output (it powers the E-meter). It would have 3
external terminals; Two are the bolts for the shunt, and the third is
the positive end of the pack. Connect the shunt wires first, then the
high voltage positive lead; this powers the E-meter and senses the pack
voltage. You're in business!
> When I let the smoke out of the e-meter will Xantrex fix it and
> is there anybody else fixing them?
Theoretically, yes. Long-term, who knows. The way big companies are
nowdays, a year from now they may have fired everyone who knew that the
E-meter ever existed.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill,
If you have 2 packs that could share but use only one at a time, you will
draw more current from that one pack and you will get less out of it. In
the case of Lead acid, mostly because of Peukert effect (less Amp.-Hrs
available at higher current), but also some voltage sag, and in the case of
TS Li Ion, mostly because of higher internal voltage drop - so the
controller has to draw more current to get the same power level/energy out.
Using the 2 together, they both work better and you get the strengths of
both types.
Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 1:51 PM
Subject: Curtis and Switching Voltages
Would it hurt anything two switch a Curtis controller between two
different
battery packs at different voltages? For example, let's say that you had
two different traction packs in your EV--one for normal driving and a
separate one dedicated for hi-amp driving like going up long hills. Under
normal driving conditions, you'd use the regular pack. When you saw a
hill
coming, a dashboard switch would allow you to switch from one pack to the
other, perhaps even with a three-way switch with an "all off" position in
the middle. Left position on switch is Pack A, middle position is all
off,
right position is Pack B.
I like Doug Hartley's system of connecting the two packs together, but was
also wondering if it would work separately this way, with a little "driver
involvement" instead of being automatic. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That symptom sounds like one phase of a three phase circuit opened. The open
phase was being fed from the other two phases.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVDL post" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:42 PM
Subject: 'Tis the Season for Power Funk at Skylark
> Other power funk we've had at Skylark includes brown-outs (~45V)
> in some of the outlets in the apartment, while other outlets had
> full voltage. It was this way throughout the complex, and all
> the outside lighting was browned out, all the way down the hill.
> That freaked people out - what the heck is going on?? When this
> happened in December 1995, I remember standing outside on my
> deck, watching the wind-driven rain whip through the trees, when
> suddenly there were several bright flashes to the northwest that
> I thought were down on the main street below (Magnolia). It was
> shortly thereafter that the brownout started (I don't know if the
> two events were related). I figure that all the buildings in
> this complex are on the same step-down transformer (which seems
> kinda weird). Each apt has 240V going into it, and I think all
> the apts are on the same 240V bus. Some outlets in the
> apartments are on one side of neutral, and other outlets on the
> opposite side. One side of that transformer must have shorted
> out in that wind-driven rain.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe,
Thank You Very Very Much! :o)
Have you designed a regenerative breaking application to go
along with this yet? Have you implemented this design?
Thanks,
Michael
Some info on regen you can see my site here:
http://CafeElectric.com/curtis/index.html
My first high power controllers ten years ago were based on the
Valentine design. Just be sure to do your own math on the power
dissipation and thermal resistance. All those first controllers are
sitting in my attic rather blown up.
I'd say the design is good for about 600 amps, but it depends on the heatsink.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 05:09 PM 12/6/2004, you wrote:
The Bill Dube crimper is working good.
http://www.evsource.com/conversion/good_crimp.jpg
Bill's site has pretty good info. on making one. If he doesn't mind, I'll
put some additional instructions with detailed pictures on my site
(eventually).
Please, spread the word. My goal was to make a good crimper that
was cheap. Why spend $175 on something you can make yourself for $21. I
still have the original $21 crimpers. I have lent them out several times
and they have been used to build several EVs.
Top priority now: getting the 200sx driving. IT'S CLOSE!
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
Christmas Discounts throughout the season!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:21 PM 12/7/04 -0600, you wrote:
Hi,
> Of course you now have the hardest and most expensive item to remove
> and have serviced..
Yes, but I've now had to remove and install this motor so many times
(mainly when I was having problems with clutch stuff), that I am getting
quite fast at doing so.
Nick,
Is it possible that your clutch is slipping under load? Like from a weak
pressure plate or glazed disc? David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The U of Wash study and Paul McCready's research showed the overall
efficiency to be about 16% well to wheels for Fool Cells. Even Air Corp who
makes H2 for NASA said the equivalent per gallon price of H2 said at the
Sept EDTA meet that H2 will always be double that of Natural gas about $4
per gallon equivalent. There is about a 40% loss making from Natural gas and
close to 50% from electrolysis from electricity. Power lines are 9% loss
according to the U of Wash study, so if you were a power company, which
would you sell, power at a 9% loss or make hydrogen at a 50% loss. Also to
be viable in cars according to Ford at the last EDTA symposium in Florida,
10,000psi compression must be done for adequate range. Another 20-30% loss.
So Joe-six-pack is going to pay $200K for one of these cars and fuel it with
$2X fuel? I don't think so.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Well-to-wheel efficiency of BEVs
> Last time I actually worked on a fuel cell (2002), they peaked at 60%
> from H2 gas in to electrons out. And that easily sagged into the 40's.
> Thats just the gas, no compression, no manufacture, no power conversion
> losses from the DC-DC because fuel cells sag like hell. Or the
> controller efficiency or motor efficiency.
>
> Seth
> On Dec 6, 2004, at 3:15 PM, Tim Humphrey wrote:
>
> > Here's my take on it.
> >
> > They took the whole conversion cost of electricity for the EV from
> > well to
> > car to including refining, generation, and delivery, assuming only
> > liquid
> > fuels were used to produce the electricity, not using the US National
> > average mix.
> >
> > AND they took the compression cost for Hydrogen, assuming the hydrogen
> > already exists and only has to be compressed, completely overlooking
> > the
> > refining process to extract the hydrogen and then it's subsequent
> > delivery.
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Stay Charged!
> > Hump
> > "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry
> > Ford
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> On
> >> Behalf Of Nick Austin
> >> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 12:12 AM
> >> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
> >> Subject: Well-to-wheel efficiency of BEVs
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I visited the California Fuel Cell Partnership the other day.
> >>
> >> While I was there, I asked about the Well-to-wheel efficiency of BEVs
> >> vs
> >> FCEVs. In response they gave me a handout from Hyundai showing A FCEV
> >> above
> >> BEVs in terms of efficiency.
> >>
> >> Is this correct? I always thought it was the other way around.
> >>
> >> I scanned the hand out, and made it available here:
> >> http://smartaustin.com.nyud.net:8090/~nick/hyundai_fcv_facts.jpeg
> >>
> >> Can somebody take a look this and see if you can find the flaw in
> >> there
> >> logic (or mine) :)
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Just hunted down the story....
> >
> > Jose Montilla, the Industry Minister in Spain made the announcement that
> > beginning next year (less than two months from now), ALL new construction
> > and even ALL renovations MUST include and install solar panels in the
> > design.
>
> Did the story say whether the required solar panels would be
> photovoltaic panels? If the story didn't say otherwise I'll assume the
> panels would be collectors for heating hot water. Do tell us the source
> of this story. I'd like to read it.
>
A similar article, in case anyone is interested..
Britain's homes have solar future
04.Oct.2004
The deputy prime minister has decided that all new homes in the
UK will be designed to receive solar power.
In a draft building regulations document, John Prescott has set
out plans to turn Britain's houses into green energy producers as
part of the Government's drive to cut emissions.
The new rules, to come into effect in 2006, will please
environmental experts who are convinced Britain is set to miss
its targets to cut greenhouse gases.
The Energy Saving Trust is trying to ensure that all homes will be
partly powered by solar energy by 2010. Last year (2003) solar
energy in the UK accounted for just one per cent of the output
of the Sizewell nuclear power station in Suffolk.
Extracted from Energy Saving Trust "Solar News"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would also be interested in buying some of these, especially if they
match the ones I already have. So who won the auction? I hope it was
somebody here...
--- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sorry for the late notice....
>
> Gov't surplus auction
>
> 7800 lbs of SAFT Aircraft starting NiCads - unused, mftd 11/95.
> Located in Richmond Va.
>
>
> Bids must be in by 0800 Eastern, 7 Dec. Can bid electronically.
>
> See item 21 in http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5006.pdf
>
> I have no further information....
>
> --
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!"
> --Henry Ford
>
>
=====
. _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__) | | \______________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
and Chris Paine is a dear friend of mine...
what a small world we live in.
Gadget
--- Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can one call this ecotainmaent ? Danny Ames
> (�)(2004)
>
> Jackie Bennion who produced a documentary series
> sent me this link to
> her work.
> http://www.pbs.org/pov/borders/2004/air/index.html
> We meet at a San Francisco restaurant last week.
> I had mentioned the Think City funeral and she had
> mentioned the EV1
> funeral.
> Then she told me she produced a brief documentary on
> EV1 driver Chris
> Paine for PBS.
> Turns out she has done lots of work in similar
> areas.
> Such a small world.
> Danny Ames...
>
>
>
>
>
> Cut from the link, "One of biggest factors affecting
> the quality of the
> air we breathe is the vehicles we drive. Where
> better to go looking for
> the problem and the solution than the Golden State?"
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.evmaster.com/evm/links.asp
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We're looking for any and all information on the
locations of leased RAV4s that have not yet been
returned to Toyota. If you know of any individual,
government entity, corporation, utility, or anyone
else who may have one or more, please let me know. If
you happen to have a contact name/number, even better.
Please reply to me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks,
=====
Sherry Boschert
President
San Francisco Electric Auto Association
415-681-7716
www.sfeaa.org
There are 941 electric vehicles and neighborhood electric vehicles in San
Francisco (DMV statistics). Driving with no gas, no oil, no noise, no emissions
-- no kidding!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
>Is it possible that your clutch is slipping under load? Like from a
>weak pressure plate or glazed disc? David Chapman.
The clutch disc and pressure plate are basically new and seem to be
working correctly. Even if they weren't working correctly, I don't see
how that would cause the motor to draw excess current. Also, if they
were slipping, wouldn't I hear or feel it, or notice higher motor RPMs
regardless of vehicle speed in a given gear? Right now, the clutch feels
like it is grabbing very well when I release the pedal...
The clutch problems I mentioned before were ones I encountered earlier
on in the conversion process, and were caused by me not originally
having a pilot bearing for the transmission input shaft. Also, the first
motor hub which was machined for me was done so badly, and had to be
remade. Since I got and installed the new hub and a pilot bearing, the
clutch has worked fine. This all took place earlier this year, and is
what delayed my completion of the Jeep significantly.
Thanks
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
--------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 03:35, David Chapman wrote:
> At 10:21 PM 12/7/04 -0600, you wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> > > Of course you now have the hardest and most expensive item to remove
> > > and have serviced..
> >
> >Yes, but I've now had to remove and install this motor so many times
> >(mainly when I was having problems with clutch stuff), that I am getting
> >quite fast at doing so.
>
> Nick,
> Is it possible that your clutch is slipping under load? Like from a weak
> pressure plate or glazed disc? David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nine automakers have filed suit to try and eviscerate
California's mandate to reduce carbon dioxide
emissions. See the SF Chronicle story at:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/08/BAGMJA81TT21.DTL
These companies include Ford, GM, Toyota and 6 others.
Interestingly, two companies that have made EVs in the
past did not join the suit -- Honda and Nissan.
I hope the leaders of the national Electric Auto
Association will be monitoring the case and weighing
in where appropriate.
And I encourage people to contact Honda and Nissan,
thank them for staying out of it, and encourage them
to sell EVs. Here's a letter I'm sending:
To: North America Nissan,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: American Honda Motor Co., 1919 Torrance Blvd.,
Torrance, CA 90501
I want to thank your company for not participating in
the lawsuit filed by nine automakers against
California State in an attempt to eviscerate the law
requiring reduced carbon dioxide emissions.
I'd like to think your company refused to participate
because you can see what lies ahead: As solar
photovolteic panels pop up on homes and buildings
across California, more and more people want electric
vehicles. It's only a matter of time before China
begins producing electric vehicles and tries to corner
the market, according to recent news reports.
Please bring back the electric vehicle you once leased
(or one like it), and this time offer it for sale.
Sincerely,
=====
Sherry Boschert
President
San Francisco Electric Auto Association
415-681-7716
www.sfeaa.org
There are 941 electric vehicles and neighborhood electric vehicles in San
Francisco (DMV statistics). Driving with no gas, no oil, no noise, no emissions
-- no kidding!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did any of the folks on this list attend and if so could they share their
observations from this event?
Lithium Mobile Power 2004:
Advances in Lithium Battery Technologies for MOBILE Applications. Lithium
Sulfur, Lithium Ion, Lithium Polymer. December 6-7, 2004 Fontainebleau Hilton
. Miami Beach FL
www.knowledgefoundation.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure. The way it can be done is $200k cars are made available for $20k
and govt. subsidy to make it
happen come from taxing the rest of us.
Technology doesn't really have to be economical if someone else can be
made to pay for it
by legislating it and spreading the consequential cost of wrong decision
among everyone.
Victor
Mark Hanson wrote:
So Joe-six-pack is going to pay $200K for one of these cars and fuel it with
$2X fuel? I don't think so.
--- End Message ---
