EV Digest 3949
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Lectra blows homemade fuse
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Interesting URL
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery amps to Motor amps
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: attack on clean-air requirements
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: WaveCrest Labs
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Interesting URL
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) PFC-20 install
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: PFC-20 install
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: attack on clean-air requirements
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) OT Hydrogen, was Re: Well-to-wheel efficiency of BEVs
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Well-to-wheel efficiency of BEVs
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Toyota RAV-4 EV guy?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) mother of all urls
by mark ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: mother of all urls
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Shock Therapy T-shirts
by Dave Stensland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: PFC-20 install
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Shock Therapy T-shirts
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) zap-wavecrest-electrocharger
by mark ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Shock Therapy T-shirts
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) RE: Boost Pack Circuit
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Boost Pack Circuit
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) RE: Boost Pack Circuit
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Relative of the Fiamp?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
28) Re: Boost Pack Circuit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
> Hi,
>
> > Of course you now have the hardest and most expensive item to remove
> > and have serviced..
>
> Yes, but I've now had to remove and install this motor so many times
> (mainly when I was having problems with clutch stuff), that I am getting
> quite fast at doing so.
>
> Of course, it is the expensive part which is my main problem. My ideal
> plan would be to purchase a new motor to get the Jeep running properly
> sooner rather than later. Then once the old motor is removed, I'd have
> time to diagnose and (hopefully) fix the problem myself without feeling
> rushed into doing so. Then I can use the fixed motor for my next EV
> creation (oh yes, I want there to be more :-) ) Of course, this is
> probably just wishful thinking at the moment...
>
> > The Raptor is doing it's thing. Your motor is sucking amps for some
> > reason. The lack of power is the Raptor is handing you all the amps it
can,
>
> I must say I've been very happy with the Raptor since I found that bad
> connector and had it fixed. I was unhappy with it when I originally
> bought it. But since that connector got fixed, it's been a very
> dependable controller!
>
> > I now have to ask What kind of motor and where did you get it from? 9
> > incher right??? New, Used??? serviced??? By who?
>
> I was brand new when I bought it from EVA in June 2003 (at the start of
> the conversion process). It is the Advanced DC FB1-4001A 9.1" motor.
>
> Of course, I didn't get the conversion in any sort of finished state
> until this past August. So in actuality the motor hasn't seen a lot of
> use (Jeep's only driven 476.1 miles, most of which was driven in the
> last 5 months).
>
> Thanks
> -Nick
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
>
>
Nick. The Raptor ... is doing it's thing when it hands you 600+ amps of
current at say 5 volts. That's what it would do with a shorted motor. ALL
amps no volts, and no torque.
With a good motor all those amps would rip your head off. the 600 times 5 is
only 3000 watts and this won't move much.
EVA ??? He does good stuff. There is no question about a poor quality motor.
what happened??? Humm the mystery still lurks. I am hoping you find some
crud in the motor, and or some badly seated brushes, Something that TLC and
Sweat effort can clean up. READ cheap, but dirty work.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I paid 10 bucks for peace of mind. Almost identical to the one I blew.
Forklift supply. A new place to get parts. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Lectra blows homemade fuse
Lawrence, how about using old renewable links for a fuse? you can parallel
them for more amperage. I have a bunch of them, if someone wants to try
it.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Zappylist"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Lectra blows homemade fuse
The ETEK started to pull real nice at 25mph up a hill and was just
starting
to feel good when nothing. No volt meter. The fuse obviously didn't do
the
job. I used the old fuse body and put three strings of solder as the
fuse.
Not quite good enough. Lawrence Rhodes........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is it possible that your clutch is slipping under load? Like from a
weak pressure plate or glazed disc? David Chapman.
That would *encourage* the controller WOT light on (raise the RPM).
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:47 AM 12/8/04 -0800, you wrote:
http://www.evmaster.com/evm/links.asp
This is like a graveyard of dead EV companies. Many of these links are to
outfits that are LONG gone.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick,
When I started following this thread, I thought the problem was the sag
from the 8V floodies, which I also endured until my switch to 6V'ers, but I
agree it's looking like the motor/drive-train is being a major drag. How
did you break-in the motor? Did you run it for many hours to seat the
brushes before doing your high current launches?
After I installed the motor in my truck, instead of running it on a mega 5V
power supply like Bill Dube' has talked about, I powered it with YT's (one
at a time), as I needed to cycle batteries prior to installing them in the
RX-7 for a NEDRA meet at Bandimere's dragstrip!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>From: Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:10:37 -0600
>
<snip>
>Yes, this motor does (IMO) make a lot of noise at the higher RPMs. It
>seems to be mostly fan noise, though. Also, while we are talking about
>motor noises, mine makes distinct rubbing noises at very slow speeds
>(like below 1000 rpm), and also when I turn it by hand. Is this normal
>(maybe brush noise?) or something else?
>
>I still have hope that my results with the Jeep are unusual due to a
>problem that has not yet been solved. The motor is seeming more and more
>suspect to me...
>
>Thanks
>-Nick
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/archives.php?id=8
Above link will get you there.
Its not archived just yet but The 6 PM KPFA Evening News Archives of
12/8/2004 will have it.
The report is on just this subject.
Should be contained in the first half hour of the program.
Danny Ames...
Sherry Boschert wrote:
>
> Nine automakers have filed suit to try and eviscerate
> California's mandate to reduce carbon dioxide
> emissions. See the SF Chronicle story at:
> http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/08/BAGMJA81TT21.DTL
>
> These companies include Ford, GM, Toyota and 6 others.
> Interestingly, two companies that have made EVs in the
> past did not join the suit -- Honda and Nissan.
>
> I hope the leaders of the national Electric Auto
> Association will be monitoring the case and weighing
> in where appropriate.
>
> And I encourage people to contact Honda and Nissan,
> thank them for staying out of it, and encourage them
> to sell EVs. Here's a letter I'm sending:
>
> To: North America Nissan,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: American Honda Motor Co., 1919 Torrance Blvd.,
> Torrance, CA 90501
>
> I want to thank your company for not participating in
> the lawsuit filed by nine automakers against
> California State in an attempt to eviscerate the law
> requiring reduced carbon dioxide emissions.
>
> I'd like to think your company refused to participate
> because you can see what lies ahead: As solar
> photovolteic panels pop up on homes and buildings
> across California, more and more people want electric
> vehicles. It's only a matter of time before China
> begins producing electric vehicles and tries to corner
> the market, according to recent news reports.
>
> Please bring back the electric vehicle you once leased
> (or one like it), and this time offer it for sale.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> =====
> Sherry Boschert
> President
> San Francisco Electric Auto Association
> 415-681-7716
> www.sfeaa.org
>
> There are 941 electric vehicles and neighborhood electric vehicles in San
> Francisco (DMV statistics). Driving with no gas, no oil, no noise, no
> emissions -- no kidding!
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lou and All,
--- Lou Lamoureux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi All,
> The Smart Car powered by WaveCrest Labs High
> Performance Hub Motors is
Could you tell us a little about your 15/30kw
motors and their costs, rpm, weight, voltage, current
torque, ect?
Are they in production?
Thanks,
jerry dycus
> at our facility in Dulles, along with a "dune buggy"
> vehicle powered by
> 4 bicycle hub motors. I am attempting to schedule a
> time where the EVA
> DC members can come and take a look at these
> vehicles. I should know
> more tomorrow, Stay Tuned.
>
>
> Lou Lamoureux
> Mid-Atlantic Regional Sales Manager
> Wavecrest Laboratories, LLC
> Dulles, Virginia
> Cell: 571-426-5474
>
> See how WaveCrest is "Changing the Way the World
> Moves" by visiting our
> Web site: www.WaveCrestlabs.com
> <http://www.WaveCrestlabs.com> or
> www.Tidalforce.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Many are still producing. But this page has completely disorganized
links.
The link to Dynasty is wrong. Our website is www.itiselectric.com
We are currently shipping cars, have increased production, and are
developing new models.
- John Foster
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Electro Automotive
Sent: December 8, 2004 5:51 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Interesting URL
At 11:47 AM 12/8/04 -0800, you wrote:
>http://www.evmaster.com/evm/links.asp
This is like a graveyard of dead EV companies. Many of these links are
to
outfits that are LONG gone.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have finally connected my PFC-20 to my truck,
tomorrow I'll be charging at the public charging
station at work using my Avcon connector to pump 30
amps into my pack woo woo. OK, the charger isn't
mounted permanently yet, I still need to fabricate a
bracket or three... But I do have a question on the
voltage setting. I currently have 16 flooded batteries
of unknown origin and age. (possibly date stamped
10/02) The Lester charger the car came with finished
the charge at 120 volts, that's 2.5V per cell, what
research I've done tells me I should use 2.4V per
cell. I set the PFC up for 115V right now. What effect
if any will this have on my pack? Should I leave it at
115, or should I bring it back up to 120?
Thanks for all the input on the DC amp meter,
currently I'm reading battery amps on the dash with an
analog meter. If I wanted to read motor amps I'd need
to move the shunt between the controller and the motor
and replace the DC meter with a RMS meter?
Still a newby, but having fun! One of these days
I'll get some pictures of my new (old) truck on the
web.
I also have a 1980 Jet Electrica for sale, that's
the 2 door Dodge Omni hatchback model for anyone that
might be interested. It's on the EV Trading Post and
you can e-mail if you're interested.
TiM
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
All your favorites on one personal page – Try My Yahoo!
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "TiM M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV-List-Post" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 11:24 PM
Subject: PFC-20 install
> Thanks for all the input on the DC amp meter,
> currently I'm reading battery amps on the dash with an
> analog meter. If I wanted to read motor amps I'd need
> to move the shunt between the controller and the motor
> and replace the DC meter with a RMS meter?
or you could use a dpdt switch and switch your analog meter to a shunt (or
use one of the motor wires as a shunt as I talked about before) on the motor
wire.
> Still a newby, but having fun! One of these days
> I'll get some pictures of my new (old) truck on the
> web.
> I also have a 1980 Jet Electrica for sale, that's
> the 2 door Dodge Omni hatchback model for anyone that
> might be interested. It's on the EV Trading Post and
> you can e-mail if you're interested.
>
> TiM
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you would like to email Toyota about this, you can use the form here:
http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/toyota.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php
You might make these points:
1. The RAV4-EV and E-Com electric vehicles, if put into production (or
returned to production) would help reduce CO2 emissions. This is
particularly true in regions where electricity is primarily hydropower and/or
where other renewable energy sources are available.
2. Even with fueled vehicles, CO2 regulation IS NOT fuel efficiency regulation.
CO2 emissions can be reduced by the use of fuels with a lower carbon
content, such as natural gas.
If anyone has a better link for reaching Toyota's management directly, please
post it.
David Roden
Akron OH USA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:55 AM 8/12/04 -0500, you wrote:
The U of Wash study and Paul McCready's research showed the overall
efficiency to be about 16% well to wheels for Fool Cells. Even Air Corp who
makes H2 for NASA said the equivalent per gallon price of H2 said at the
Sept EDTA meet that H2 will always be double that of Natural gas about $4
per gallon equivalent. There is about a 40% loss making from Natural gas and
close to 50% from electrolysis from electricity. Power lines are 9% loss
according to the U of Wash study, so if you were a power company, which
would you sell, power at a 9% loss or make hydrogen at a 50% loss. <snip>
Hi all
Our local power company is investing in Hydrogen by electrolysis, but to
fill niche market needs. They have been making a song and dance about a
plan where they are putting wind generators on an island to power the 50 or
so homes there. Excess power will be used to electrolyse hydrogen to be
used in a H2-burning ICE powered generator to make up for low-wind times.
This is mostly government funded, but IMHO is part of the future that we
should be pursuing. If you were a power company, would you rather put in
excess generating capacity to cover peaks, or convert the energy into a
storage medium? (I suppose they could put in a humongous battery, like
[Fairbanks?] somewhere in Alaska).
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>Sure. The way it can be done is $200k cars are made
>available for $20k
>and govt. subsidy to make it
>happen come from taxing the rest of us.
>
>Technology doesn't really have to be economical if
>someone else can be
>made to pay for it
>by legislating it and spreading the consequential
>cost of wrong decision
>among everyone.
Slightly OT:
More government spending we already don't need...
Meanwhile, it appears we already have the technology to make
a < $25k 150+ mile range EV with at least the performance
and safety parameters expected from a gas car of similar
price. It's all a matter of production volume and will(or
lack therof) by monied interests to get this technology out
in the open. Hence the person that's going to get this
started is most likely going to be a small entrepreneur not
interested in keeping consumers tied to an antiquated
technology and all the baggage associated with it for no
better reason than to keep a thinning cash cow from keeling
over dead from exhaustion.
Back OT:
I love how Hyundai conveniently forgets the amount of
electricity it used to make that hydrogen. Multiply that 29%
and 36% respectively by 1/4, which accounts for the amount
lost from coal to electricity used in their calculation for
the EV(Coal plants can go up to 35-40%m however), and there
is a more fair assessment.
The AC Propulsion TZero, for instance, at 150 wh/mile 'tank'
to wheels gets about 63-65 miles per gallon well to wheels.
Even large truck/SUV-based conversions that would only get
16-20 mpgs in gas form easily get 30+ mpgs well to wheels as
an EV. Fuel cells can't even come close. Diesel-electric
hybrids, on the other hand, are fair competition to EVs in
efficiency and performance, only hampered by the fact they
still have tailpipe emissions that can't be displaced away
from population centers.
The well to wheel efficiency of a BEV is safely in the
21-25% range, depending on power source. An FCV will
generally be about 1/3-1/2 that, assuming same source of
electricity used to power EV and strip hydrogen from natural
gas or water. About 70% of that energy wasted in compressing
H2 could be reclaimed through use of a turbine, but why go
through all that trouble?
Complexity = bad for the consumer. Not that the auto
monopolies would care, as that's keeping them nicely
maintained. Given some of this recent legislation
passed(Freedom carand the like), it looks like they'd rather
have more government handouts, curteousy of the taxpayer.
This rant is, of course, directed at the execs of said
companies, and not the engineers that have to struggle
against the bean counters.
Two links that are great sources of info on well to wheel
efficiency are as follows:
http://www.acpropulsion.com/PDF files/ANB ZEV comments 4.pdf
http://www.ilea.org/downloads/MazzaHammerschlag.pdf
http://www.evuk.co.uk/EAVES_BEV_VS_FCV 040703.pdf
A few of these may be biased(A study done by a supplier of
EV parts on BEVs, for instance), but even if they were
completely objective, the numbers would be strikingly
similar, as simple calculations can demonstrate. I'm sure
this debate will carry on within the industry, with people
only wanting to hear what they want to hear, and ignoring
everything else(On both sides of the debate), but all that
is doing is holding the development back. I say, whatever
works now, and not in 20 years or more, put it out now, and
use it. Enough bickering. Enough slowly rationing out
already viable technology to the point that it is decades
old before it reaches consumers. If a few thousand Americans
and many others worldwide can demonstrate EVs work without
having multi-billion dollar production plants to make their
vehicles with, then we have no excuses. Using crude
batteries it's easy to get 1/3 the range of a gas car with
some effort while keeping things cheap. Meanwhile, the gas
prices keep rising.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Nick;
Is it possible the motor is a series motor wired like a shunt motor?
That could explain the high current draw.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: Motor Amps, Battery Amps ?
> Hi,
>
> >Is it possible that your clutch is slipping under load? Like from a
> >weak pressure plate or glazed disc? David Chapman.
>
> The clutch disc and pressure plate are basically new and seem to be
> working correctly. Even if they weren't working correctly, I don't see
> how that would cause the motor to draw excess current. Also, if they
> were slipping, wouldn't I hear or feel it, or notice higher motor RPMs
> regardless of vehicle speed in a given gear? Right now, the clutch feels
> like it is grabbing very well when I release the pedal...
>
> The clutch problems I mentioned before were ones I encountered earlier
> on in the conversion process, and were caused by me not originally
> having a pilot bearing for the transmission input shaft. Also, the first
> motor hub which was machined for me was done so badly, and had to be
> remade. Since I got and installed the new hub and a pilot bearing, the
> clutch has worked fine. This all took place earlier this year, and is
> what delayed my completion of the Jeep significantly.
>
> Thanks
> -Nick
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 2004-12-08 at 03:35, David Chapman wrote:
> > At 10:21 PM 12/7/04 -0600, you wrote:
> > >Hi,
> > >
> > > > Of course you now have the hardest and most expensive item to remove
> > > > and have serviced..
> > >
> > >Yes, but I've now had to remove and install this motor so many times
> > >(mainly when I was having problems with clutch stuff), that I am
getting
> > >quite fast at doing so.
> >
> > Nick,
> > Is it possible that your clutch is slipping under load? Like from a weak
> > pressure plate or glazed disc? David Chapman.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 23:49:53 -0800, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Nick;
>
> Is it possible the motor is a series motor wired like a shunt motor?
> That could explain the high current draw.
I thought this too, but in the photo on his site, the motor is wired correctly.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try the following:
310.468.3885. The name _may_ still be Sean.
(;-p
--- "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> If you would like to email Toyota about this, you
> can use the form here:
>
>
http://toyota.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/toyota.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php
>
> You might make these points:
>
> 1. The RAV4-EV and E-Com electric vehicles, if put
> into production (or
> returned to production) would help reduce CO2
> emissions. This is
> particularly true in regions where electricity is
> primarily hydropower and/or
> where other renewable energy sources are available.
>
>
> 2. Even with fueled vehicles, CO2 regulation IS NOT
> fuel efficiency regulation.
> CO2 emissions can be reduced by the use of fuels
> with a lower carbon
> content, such as natural gas.
>
> If anyone has a better link for reaching Toyota's
> management directly, please
> post it.
>
> David Roden
> Akron OH USA
>
>
=====
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
an open challenge to beat this url for links to ev related sites
http://ev.starttips.com/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
I accept your challenge. Try Megawatt Motorworks where the links are
categorized, searchable, reviewable, ratable , and sortable...
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/defaultlinks.asp
-Dave Stensland, Owner
Megawatt Motorworks, LLC
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
On Dec 9, 2004, at 7:54 AM, mark ward wrote:
an open challenge to beat this url for links to ev related sites
http://ev.starttips.com/
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd like to announce a new T-shirt for the EV Maniacs here.
Mark Mongillo's Fiampprovided the inspiration for this original print
which illustrates the spirit of high power electric vehicles. It's
comfortable, durable, and a great conversation starter!
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/store/shop/item.asp?itemid=30
Thanks,
-Dave Stensland, Owner
Megawatt Motorworks, LLC
http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Tim,
It may depend on the Amp Hour rating of the battery and type of floods. I
used to have 300 AH lead cobalt cells, that could be charge at 3.1 volts per
cell in 20 minutes with a 300 amp outboard charger.
I now do not have to travel at 90 mph (we did not have a daytime speed
limit) to work which I had to roller coast up a 4 mile steep hill everyday.
My travel distance is on flat grade at about 2 miles a day, so I change the
batteries out to Trojan T-145's 244 AH which I charge with a on board
PFC-50B charger.
I initially set the charger to 2.4V per cell or 216 volts with a 30 minute
time out. I find that after charging every week for about a month, the S.G.
keeps reducing. The S.G. normally at 1.275 and after charging at 2.4V the
S.G. was down to 1.255.
So I jack it up to 2.5V per cell or 225 volts and gave a time out of 35
minutes. The S.G. was down to 1.260 after a month of charging.
At 2.5V per cell, these batteries did not bubble very much. The voltage
difference between all 30 batteries is still between .01 to .02 volts!
I found, that I can charge at 2.5V per cell with a time out of 40 minutes to
bring the S.G. up to 1.275 or go with 2.5V per cell with 30 minutes time
out and charge once a month at 2.6V per cell at 30 minutes time out to bring
up the S.G. to 1.275.
You could also charge at 2.4V per cell with a longer timeout which you would
to test out.
Rich Rudman will have battery charger specifications for what type of
battery is used.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: "TiM M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV-List-Post" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 9:24 PM
Subject: PFC-20 install
> I have finally connected my PFC-20 to my truck,
> tomorrow I'll be charging at the public charging
> station at work using my Avcon connector to pump 30
> amps into my pack woo woo. OK, the charger isn't
> mounted permanently yet, I still need to fabricate a
> bracket or three... But I do have a question on the
> voltage setting. I currently have 16 flooded batteries
> of unknown origin and age. (possibly date stamped
> 10/02) The Lester charger the car came with finished
> the charge at 120 volts, that's 2.5V per cell, what
> research I've done tells me I should use 2.4V per
> cell. I set the PFC up for 115V right now. What effect
> if any will this have on my pack? Should I leave it at
> 115, or should I bring it back up to 120?
> Thanks for all the input on the DC amp meter,
> currently I'm reading battery amps on the dash with an
> analog meter. If I wanted to read motor amps I'd need
> to move the shunt between the controller and the motor
> and replace the DC meter with a RMS meter?
> Still a newby, but having fun! One of these days
> I'll get some pictures of my new (old) truck on the
> web.
> I also have a 1980 Jet Electrica for sale, that's
> the 2 door Dodge Omni hatchback model for anyone that
> might be interested. It's on the EV Trading Post and
> you can e-mail if you're interested.
>
> TiM
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> All your favorites on one personal page - Try My Yahoo!
> http://my.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Pretty neat Dave!
I have your charger in my car, and I've been in Longmont a few times
since I told you I'd return it, but been too busy. Everything always
takes longer than expected...
I have QSC systems in Longmont assembling 52 printed Circuit boards for
me; they will do a much better job than my hand assembled ones so far.
The wave soldering machine will be much more consistant.
I still need to ship some orders before they are done, so I am going to
need to stop by there soon to pick up some parts they ordered for me to
hand assemble a few boards. They say the parts will be in this friday,
but considering they forgot to order them on time, it might be later.
When I go up to pick up some parts, I hope to drop off your charger.
Bill Dube's charger caused his nicads to go into thermal runaway (again)
last night... when he got to his car this morning, his nicads were at 80
deg C... A bunch of problems lead up to this, but the main one was that
on his PFC-20, a voltage triggers the timer. Well, if the batteries get
too hot, the voltage dips, and when the voltage dips below the trip point,
the timer resets!!! If anything, the charger should shut down completly,
but instead it resets, and nothing is there to stop the batteries from
getting hotter (and the voltage dipping more...)
How much do you pay to get your t-shirts silk screened? There is a guy in
Fredrec Colorado, just off of I-25 that charges us $0.50 per swipe (one
swipe per color, or side). The setup charge depends on the # in the run.
I think he wants at least 15 with a $15 or so setup charge, and I think
the setup charge is $0 if there is 48 or so in the run. There are a few
other charges for making the silk screen, but they are reasonable as well
(like $20 one time setup charge per screen, or something). If he has to
do any computer processing or touch up, he only charges $20 or $40 (I
forget...) per hour, depending on your attitude. If you order him around
to make changes, well, he will charge you more. But he always charged us
for less time then he actually spent, and spent some time teaching us a
bit about corel draw. I don't remember his name exactly, but I can look
it up if you are interested.
Well, back to the day job...
Good luck selling t-shirts!
- Steve
> I'd like to announce a new T-shirt for the EV Maniacs here.
>
> Mark Mongillo's Fiampprovided the inspiration for this original print
> which illustrates the spirit of high power electric vehicles. It's
> comfortable, durable, and a great conversation starter!
>
> http://www.megawattmotorworks.com/store/shop/item.asp?itemid=30
>
> Thanks,
> -Dave Stensland, Owner
> Megawatt Motorworks, LLC
> http://www.megawattmotorworks.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just wondering if Wavecrest is an all hype no substance company like the alpha
male product.
I visited the alphamale-ecolectric booth at SEMA - looked like hype to me. The
alphamale web site has not been updated for 4 months now -where are the
promised independent product reviews they promised?
http://www.ecolectrictechnology.com/news.htm
The wavecrest site seems to (by their dearth of information) (for how many
months now?) to be of the same genere.
In any case, more power to Wavecrest if they can get the SMART CAR electrified
(electric power that is). Did anybody get to see the car? How much do their
motors cost?
Lastly-anybody want to speculate about ZAP and their recent announcement that
they will be selling the SMART CAR. I know from past posts on this site that
this comapny is not highly regarded. But they may due for a short term pop in
their stock price-until Mercedes starts to sell the "OEM" version of the SMART
CAR. Will they be able to execute?
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! – Get yours free!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can't imagine how red my face is... I hit reply, looked at the To:
subject line, confirmed that it was directly to him, but somehow it went
to the list...
I thought I was being careful enough, but I guess not...
- Steve
> Pretty neat Dave!
<snip>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Doug. Quick question for your advice on something. I might have the
possibility of getting 35 200Ah TS cells. If I went with your hybrid
system, the voltages would be as follows:
Starting TS: 35 * 3.6 = 126 Ending TS: 35 * 3 = 105
Starting PbA: 9 * 13.2 = 118.8 Ending PbA: 9 * 11 = 99
Do you think these numbers are close enough to work? The other possibility
would be to drop down to using only 33 of the TS cells. Then the numbers
work out identically to each, but I'd be giving up some capacity:
Starting TS: 33 * 3.6 = 118.8 Ending TS: 33 * 3 = 99
Starting PbA: 9 * 13.2 = 118.8 Ending PbA: 9 * 11 = 99
Which method do you think is better? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Hartley
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Boost Pack Circuit
Bill, it can be easier and simpler than that:
Use an AGM lead acid pack, connected to the TS Li Ion pack with a large
diode, as the support. As more current is drawn and the Li Ion pack voltage
drops under load, the AGM pack starts supplying current.
Here are some more details on one way to do it:
Plan a pack of small AGM batteries (such as Interstate DCS-33) having a
total pack charged resting voltage a little lower than the nominal voltage
of the TS Li Ion pack. In my case, 7 12V AGMs are used to support a 26 cell
300 A-Hour TS pack (made up of 26 200 and 26 100 A-hr cells).
So, for this real life example: 7 x 13V = 91V for the AGM pack, which is
a little less than 26 X 3.6V = 93.6V for the Li Ion pack.
As a second quick check calculation, verify that the reasonable minimum
voltage for the AGM pack is about the same as for the Li Ion pack. At about
11V per AGM battery and 3V per Li Ion cell, both packs are down to about
77V when discharged and under load. That checks out, so they should both
work well together "to the end".
Connect one polarity (say negative) of both packs directly together.
Connect the positive of the AGM pack (through a 200A DC rated circuit
breaker for protection and disconnect), to the anode of a large diode rated
to carry more than this current (ideally something like a low drop Schottky
300A diode on a suitable heat sink). Note that these current ratings are
for a low voltage high current EV, and can be reduced proportionately for a
higher voltage EV. Connect the cathode end of the diode to the Li Ion pack
positive. Connect a charging circuit across this diode to pass a limited
current in the other direction. I used a 12V 1 Amp. automotive light bulb
in series with a 10V 40W zener diode array (4 of the 5V, 5W zeners in
series/parallel) as a quick and dirty method for now.
How it works:
When the Li Ion pack is near full charge and under light load, the AGM pack
supplies no current as its voltage is lower than the Li Ion pack. Under
heavy acceleration/load when the Li Ion pack voltage is drawn down below
the AGM pack voltage, the diode conducts and the AGM pack supplies part of
the current. The more it is needed, as the Li Ion pack is discharged
further and/or loading increases, the more the AGM pack supplies current.
As I brake, regen raises the Li Ion pack voltage and the AGM pack charges a
little. When put on charge, the AGM pack starts charging once the Li Ion
pack voltage comes up. With a more sophisticated charging circuit, the AGM
pack can also absorb a lot of the regen current and allow for stronger regen
plus get partially recharged to help more. (applies to EVs with
regenerative braking capabilities).
If you want any further information or a drawing, let me know.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: Boost Pack Circuit
> In preparation for my EV conversion, I'm still in the early stages of
trying
> to teach myself some electronics, so I apologize in advance if this is an
> unworkable configuration dreamed up by a novice. I'm wondering if a
circuit
> something like the one below could be designed to work for a boost pack.
> The "Nifty Current Following Circuit" would do the following: When the
> controller called for 140A or less (.7C), all current would flow from the
TS
> Traction Pack. For Amperages above 140A, the Nifty Circuit would pull
some
> proportional number of amps from the DC-DC along with the amps from the TS
> Traction Pack.
Snip
> Bill Dennis
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< Hi, Doug. Quick question for your advice on something. I might have the
possibility of getting 35 200Ah TS cells. If I went with your hybrid
system, the voltages would be as follows:
Starting TS: 35 * 3.6 = 126 Ending TS: 35 * 3 = 105
Starting PbA: 9 * 13.2 = 118.8 Ending PbA: 9 * 11 = 99 >>
Fully charged, TS and other lithiums "start" at 4.2V, perhaps a bit higher if
temperature compensated.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In the note that Doug posted here a couple of months ago, he used 3.6V for
his calculations. This is probably because that's the nominal voltage for
the cells, and they quickly drop to this level as soon as they're used.
Doug can verify this if he responds.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 1:51 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: RE: Boost Pack Circuit
<< Hi, Doug. Quick question for your advice on something. I might have the
possibility of getting 35 200Ah TS cells. If I went with your hybrid
system, the voltages would be as follows:
Starting TS: 35 * 3.6 = 126 Ending TS: 35 * 3 = 105
Starting PbA: 9 * 13.2 = 118.8 Ending PbA: 9 * 11 = 99 >>
Fully charged, TS and other lithiums "start" at 4.2V, perhaps a bit higher
if
temperature compensated.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Electrified Fiat 750 in the NW:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4510387619
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug (and Bill),
Your suggested setup will work OK. 2 concerns:
- With temp change, LiIon pack getting softer
drastically quicker than PbA pack, so at about 0'C
freshly charged LiIon pack will sag to the point that
PbA one will take over right away.
- You certainly can shunt diode between packs to allow
charging current to flow in reverse, but the charging
requirements (profile) are different for two, so it may
be better idea to charge both packs separately.
Since variable current seems to be preferred way for LiIons
and PbA don't care, one can use variable current for
both battery types, and then indeed total charging can be
done in one pass. However,
LiIon pack NEEDS A BMS supervising individual cells and
controlling the charger based on that supervision info.
That will impact charging of PbA as well. If one pack is full
but the other is not and this repeats cycle after cycle,
you're going to ruin one of the two unless separate
the chemistries for individual charging.
I know, everyone wants to get away cheaply, but this setup
is more complicated that may seem, and if not done right,
unavoidable trouble will cost you more in the long run.
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Bill Dennis wrote:
Hi, Doug. Quick question for your advice on something. I might have the
possibility of getting 35 200Ah TS cells. If I went with your hybrid
system, the voltages would be as follows:
Starting TS: 35 * 3.6 = 126 Ending TS: 35 * 3 = 105
Starting PbA: 9 * 13.2 = 118.8 Ending PbA: 9 * 11 = 99
Do you think these numbers are close enough to work? The other possibility
would be to drop down to using only 33 of the TS cells. Then the numbers
work out identically to each, but I'd be giving up some capacity:
Starting TS: 33 * 3.6 = 118.8 Ending TS: 33 * 3 = 99
Starting PbA: 9 * 13.2 = 118.8 Ending PbA: 9 * 11 = 99
Which method do you think is better? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Doug Hartley
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:14 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Boost Pack Circuit
Bill, it can be easier and simpler than that:
Use an AGM lead acid pack, connected to the TS Li Ion pack with a large
diode, as the support. As more current is drawn and the Li Ion pack voltage
drops under load, the AGM pack starts supplying current.
Here are some more details on one way to do it:
Plan a pack of small AGM batteries (such as Interstate DCS-33) having a
total pack charged resting voltage a little lower than the nominal voltage
of the TS Li Ion pack. In my case, 7 12V AGMs are used to support a 26 cell
300 A-Hour TS pack (made up of 26 200 and 26 100 A-hr cells).
So, for this real life example: 7 x 13V = 91V for the AGM pack, which is
a little less than 26 X 3.6V = 93.6V for the Li Ion pack.
As a second quick check calculation, verify that the reasonable minimum
voltage for the AGM pack is about the same as for the Li Ion pack. At about
11V per AGM battery and 3V per Li Ion cell, both packs are down to about
77V when discharged and under load. That checks out, so they should both
work well together "to the end".
Connect one polarity (say negative) of both packs directly together.
Connect the positive of the AGM pack (through a 200A DC rated circuit
breaker for protection and disconnect), to the anode of a large diode rated
to carry more than this current (ideally something like a low drop Schottky
300A diode on a suitable heat sink). Note that these current ratings are
for a low voltage high current EV, and can be reduced proportionately for a
higher voltage EV. Connect the cathode end of the diode to the Li Ion pack
positive. Connect a charging circuit across this diode to pass a limited
current in the other direction. I used a 12V 1 Amp. automotive light bulb
in series with a 10V 40W zener diode array (4 of the 5V, 5W zeners in
series/parallel) as a quick and dirty method for now.
How it works:
When the Li Ion pack is near full charge and under light load, the AGM pack
supplies no current as its voltage is lower than the Li Ion pack. Under
heavy acceleration/load when the Li Ion pack voltage is drawn down below
the AGM pack voltage, the diode conducts and the AGM pack supplies part of
the current. The more it is needed, as the Li Ion pack is discharged
further and/or loading increases, the more the AGM pack supplies current.
As I brake, regen raises the Li Ion pack voltage and the AGM pack charges a
little. When put on charge, the AGM pack starts charging once the Li Ion
pack voltage comes up. With a more sophisticated charging circuit, the AGM
pack can also absorb a lot of the regen current and allow for stronger regen
plus get partially recharged to help more. (applies to EVs with
regenerative braking capabilities).
If you want any further information or a drawing, let me know.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: Boost Pack Circuit
In preparation for my EV conversion, I'm still in the early stages of
trying
to teach myself some electronics, so I apologize in advance if this is an
unworkable configuration dreamed up by a novice. I'm wondering if a
circuit
something like the one below could be designed to work for a boost pack.
The "Nifty Current Following Circuit" would do the following: When the
controller called for 140A or less (.7C), all current would flow from the
TS
Traction Pack. For Amperages above 140A, the Nifty Circuit would pull
some
proportional number of amps from the DC-DC along with the amps from the TS
Traction Pack.
Snip
> Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
