EV Digest 3972
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Making EV conversions new vehicles, Re: EV Taxes
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Long Range EV with decent performance?
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Long Range EV with decent performance?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: OT, another view on Michael Chrihtons book
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Long Range EV with decent performance?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fwd: Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Fwd: Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Long Range EV with decent performance? A few Thoughts
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: SAFT Nicads (aircraft starting)
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Ground resistance weirdness causing problems
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Ground resistance weirdness causing problems
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by Dee Dreslough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Zamboni conversion, thoughts
by "Deuville's Rink" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) New EV!
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Ground resistance weirdness causing problems
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Troubleshooting the ADC
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EV costs of Long Range EV with decent performance?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Rich's batt Charger tax refunds, Re: Making EV conversions new vehicles,
Re: EV Taxes
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) EV Christmas Carol
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: EV Christmas Carol
by Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EV Christmas Carol
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New EV!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: EV Christmas Carol
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
25) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay - A question answered
by Dee Dreslough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by Chimer Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: New EV!
by Gordon Niessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: EV Christmas Carol
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Heater/defroster ideas?
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Ground resistance weirdness causing problems
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
> Guys, there's a piece that's missing here:
> A VIN # is a manufacturers' code just behind the
> windshield, on the dash, and also stamped into the
> firewall.
> Look, I did the same thing you all did (see
> "receipts", below), and got my $1500 from the great
> state of OR for doing so. But the car still has the
> same VIN #.
> Are you saying that since my registration has now
> changed to all-electric power, that I should've
> applied as a "2004 CivicWithACord", and I could
> collect (what would be in a more sensible country) a
> tax rebate on my fed. taxes? Unfortunately, I listed
> it as a 1992 Civic, but just checked the "electric"
> box on the reg. forms.
You can do it both ways. You can re-title your 1992 Honda Accord as a
"1992 Honda Accord." That's what it becomes for licensing, registration,
insurance, and other purposes. By getting "electric power" added to the
title, you may get the state credits (it depends on how your state's
laws are written), but you won't get the federal tax benefits.
Or, you can re-title it as a "2004 CivicWithACord". Now, it is a *new*
car for all licensing, registration, insurance, and other purposes.
INCLUDING it is now applicable for federal tax savings.
Be warned that if you re-title it as a NEW car, you may have trouble
getting insurance, since it's not listed in their database. You may also
get silly registration charges, since they will treat it as a brand new
vehicle.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Jarrett wrote:
> Once I move my commute will drasticly change. It will go to
> a 75 mile
> round trip with about 1/2 of that being 55 zone and the rest being
> "city" driving. That would mean a car that has a range of 90
> miles in
> *any* weather (without recharging) *AND* that can go about 40
> miles of
> that at "highway" speed.
>
> Lots of people on this list have said "100 mpc cars are here
> now". But
> when I read through the EV photo album I see 30mpc, 50 mpc
> 75mpc, etc.
> I have not seen (or if I have I don't remember) any car with
> a 100mpc,
> or even 90, or 80.
>
> So am I spitting into the wind or is this possible to do. Now by
> possible, I mean can it be done for a price that I can afford
> to pay. I
> know if I wanted to spend 20k on a Lithium Ion or other "Superpack" I
> could do it. But I'd like to do the whole project for not more than
> 10-12k (plus the donor car).
>
> So am I dreaming?
Hi James,
The short answer is no, it's not a dream to have a long-range EV with decent
performance for the price you want to pay.
In a perfect world you would be able to convert some tiny, aerodynamic
little car that happened to have LOTS of carrying capability. Load it up
with 50% of its weight in batteries and have a ball. The lower the weight
of the vehicle you start with, the better the performance.
In reality, there are no cars that are both very light and very strong, and
also lend themselves well to a conversion. I might be tempted to try a
Karmann Ghia if *and only if* I could dramatically strengthen the chassis to
hold lots of lead. (Hmmm, thinking about it, that might not be too hard.)
The good news is that one solution that fits your requirements has already
been built. Twice. The easiest way to build an EV that is reasonably light
and holds lots of weight is to start with a small pick up. Then carefully
extend that concept to optimize it for your mission. The Red Beastie
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html is a fine example, described many
times on this list. Brian Matheny was inspired by the Beastie and built his
own based on a Chevy S-10 http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/185.html. Both of
these do well over 100 mpc, including highway speeds. With battery
insulation and heaters, there is no difference between summer and winter
range.
For what you have in mind the S-10 might be the better approach, if only
because there are lots of converted S-10s out there. You could buy a used
one and upgrade it. If it was me I'd try very hard to fit as many batteries
up front as possible. Brian got 8 under the hood of the S-10. I'm thinking
more is possible with some creativity. (I got 10 under the hood of a
Lectric Leopard.) It would be nice to get all the rear batteries under the
bed for much-improved handling, but that's probably not possible. (Hmmm,
maybe easier/lighter if you replace the original with a flatbed/stakebed
arrangement?)
Such a pickup is obviously doable, and proven to meet your needs. That's
where I'd start.
Chris
P.S. Not being able to charge at work will not be good for your batteries,
sitting all day partially discharged. Battery gurus, what is it that hurts
the batteries? Being at a low SOC, or being *idle* at a low SOC? In other
words, would charging them even very gently with some PV panels reduce or
eliminate the effects of long periods at low SOC? PV certainly won't
provide any useful additional range, but in a high-mileage EV like James is
contemplating would they be worth it to prolong the pack?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also, the more popular cars have fiberglas panels and body parts available.
Using these can reduce and re-balance the weight also.
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
The Red Beastie http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/037.html is a fine
example...
(Hmmm, maybe easier/lighter if you replace the original with a
flatbed/stakebed arrangement?)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 09:13:24 -0800 (PST), Rod Hower
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=74
>
>also check out www.realclimate.org
>
Man, you just gotta love that "consensus science". A hundred years ago
the consensus was that an atom could not be split. A hundred or so years
before that, the consensus concerned phlogiston. A hundred or so years
before that the consensus was that the earth was flat. Hmmmm.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
> Maybe we could get an EVer in the area to check it out.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chimer Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 3:00 PM
> Subject: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
>
>
> > ebay item #4512963146
> >
> >
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4512963146&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
> >
> >
> > 300HP electric motor that operates from 2 car
> > batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels.
> > Fully self contained and self charging. At last look
> > the bidding for plans only is up to $1026. Why did I
> > have to be born with a conscience? What a great scam.
> >
> > Just thought you all might like a look
> >
> > Chimer
> >
> > Hi Chimer;
Thanks for the link! I got a good laff out of it. And it doesn't
need to be plugged in or gassed! Great ,runs fast in the "quater"Gees! Tjhe
guy's more speling declined than I am<g>! too. I think I'll stick with Led
Acids, Nicads or Catenery,in MY Vechicals, for now. I wish the guy luck,
though! Being the first guy to break the laws of physics, and perpetual
motion!
Seeya
Bob
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
> > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Jarrett wrote:
> Lots of people on this list have said "100 mpc cars are here now".
> But when I read through the EV photo album... I have not seen any
> car with a 100 mpc, or even 90, or 80.
As others have pointed out, plenty of EVs exist that can go over 100
mpc. However, most of them are custom built for efficiency races and are
thus impractical as daily drivers; or they use exotic expensive
batteries.
> I'd like to do the whole project for not more than 10-12k (plus the
> donor car). So am I dreaming?
No; it's difficult, but not impossible. It *has* been done before! Here
are some approaches:
1. The "lead sled"
With lead-acid batteries, you're going to need about half the vehicle's
curb weight in batteries to reach 100 mpc. This almost certainly
requires a truck. John Wayland's "Red Beastie" Toyota pickup conversion
is a good example. It has 40 golf cart batteries. The motor, controller,
batteries, and other EV bits needed would easily come in at under $10k.
This 50% battery ratio has been achieved in a few cars as well. Alan
Cocconi's Honda is one example; I think he had 26 Optima batteries in a
Civic). However, it typically takes rather drastic structural mods to
get any recent car to safely carry this much weight.
2. The "superbattery"
There are a limited number of higher performance batteries available, if
you really look hard and are willing to bargain-hunt. A higher-energy
battery makes the design of the rest of the car straightforward. You can
get your 100 mpc range from an EV that would have done half this on
lead-acids.
Large nicads are probably the easiest to find. They have been used for
many years in aircraft and other applications. A few surplus packs from
auto company produced EVs are available for sale. You can even buy them
new from Saft, though getting enough to go 100 mpc for under $10k might
be a challenge.
Recently, some folks have bought relatively inexpensive large
lithium-ions from Thundersky. $5k-$10k worth of them can certainly give
you the range. But, it's too soon to say what "surprises" these
batteries may have in store for the pioneers who use them. So far, it
looks like they require an expensive balancing and charging system, and
are not suitable for high-current "performance" EVs.
A few people are trying battery packs composed of thousands of small
cells (like nimh C cells from wrecked hybrid Toyota Prius or Honda
Insights, or lithium-ion A cells from laptop battery packs). It's an
interesting idea, but there are major problems in wiring, monitoring,
and balancing such large numbers of cells.
3. The "custom-built car"
The major problem with any EV conversion is that conventional vehicles
are just not designed for the purpose. They are optimized to be cheap
and easy to mass-produce -- not to be strong or light or efficient.
So, you can do much better with a vehicle designed from scratch to be an
EV. Such vehicles have demonstrated some truly astounding range and
performance. AC Propulsion's tZero sports car, Solectria's Sunrise, and
Bob McKee's Sundancer, and Cedric Lynch's motorcycle are a few that come
to mind. The Sunrise, for example, has gone over 373 miles on a charge
at freeway speeds.
But, building a car from scratch is a *lot* of work! It is especially
daunting because the plans haven't been published by any of the groups
or individuals that have done it.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
> Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 08:15:19 -0500
>
> Has anybody alerted eBay to the fact that this is a potential scam????
>
I did. Hopefully eBay will stop this person before the rip some one off.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In reading over the ad, did he mean to say "24" car batteries instead of the
> printed "2"? If the car moved at all, he could not have done it with just 2
> batteries. He could not run the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds on 2 car batteries.
> Could he run the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds on 24 batteries?
>
> Did he print "300" hp thinking that "30" hp sounds incorrect for something
> that should be all powerful? What car owner buys an ICE with just 30 hp?
>
He wrote;
"All on 2 car batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels. and most of all
theres no limit
restrictions, it's fully self contained and charging."
I don't think there's any question about his intention.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Jarrett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 11:46 AM
Subject: Long Range EV with decent performance?
> Greetings all,
> Snip-a-bit
Hi Jim;
> For those of you who don't know, I sold my 59 Henney Kilowatt a couple
> of months ago. My 28 mile round trip was not doable as the weather
> becomes colder and my war for a charging station was well and truely
> lost, so I sold her to a Psychology professor at the University of
> Georgia in Atlanta.
> Glad to see she went to a loving home!
> I still strongly believe in electrics. I WANT another one (even tho I
> am on the waiting list to buy a Smart Car). But I'm having a hard time
> justifying the purchase to both myself and my wife.
>
Yeah! You're hooked<g>!Ha ! Like the rest of us!
> Right now, my commute is 28 miles round trip. I occationally have to
> run errands on lunch that add up to another 10-15 miles.
>
OK Mine was 56 miles with a charge at work, and all uphil coming
home, 450 foot climb from sea leval, and all those other enchanting errand
places I did too.
> So, right now I need a car that can do about 45 miles in *any* weather.
> Now in Charlotte, NC the winters are mild, and usually we don't see many
> days below 20 degrees F (low) and the highs are usually in the 40-50
> range. Of that 28 mile round trip about 6 is 55mph "highway" speed and
> the rest is 45 or less "city" driving.
>
Raising the bar a bit!<g>! EVen my Rabbit wouldn't make that day in
and day out, , if it is flat, no hills, MAYBE in the summer?
> If this was all I need, I know there are lots of cars out there that
> could handle it, the real issue is my planned move to my other
> property. Now we have been planning this move for years, and we HOPE
> to do it in the next year or so, but who knows.
>
> Once I move my commute will drasticly change. It will go to a 75 mile
> round trip with about 1/2 of that being 55 zone and the rest being
> "city" driving. That would mean a car that has a range of 90 miles in
> *any* weather (without recharging) *AND* that can go about 40 miles of
> that at "highway" speed.
>
> Lots of people on this list have said "100 mpc cars are here now". But
> when I read through the EV photo album I see 30mpc, 50 mpc 75mpc, etc.
> I have not seen (or if I have I don't remember) any car with a 100mpc,
> or even 90, or 80.
>
> So am I spitting into the wind or is this possible to do. Now by
> possible, I mean can it be done for a price that I can afford to pay. I
> know if I wanted to spend 20k on a Lithium Ion or other "Superpack" I
> could do it. But I'd like to do the whole project for not more than
> 10-12k (plus the donor car).
>
> So am I dreaming?
>
> James
>
I think ya could do a Southern Version of Red Beastie or Bryan
Methiney's Polar Bear, S ten's loaded with 40 T 125 batteries, The Beastie
was/is a Toyota truck, about the same porportions as a Chevy. A relatively
easy to do conversion, IMHO , fit the 9inch Warp or ADV motor onto the
tranny with the clutch, please, You would be pleasently surprised at the
cavernous "engine Room" after the motor/tranny tucks back in there, SOME of
the batteries can fit up there, with your Rapter or Zilla, and PFC 20, DC to
dc all that essential stuff. John Wayland put ALL the Beastie's Batteries in
back, none under the bed, or hood, surprisingly to me, but I think he did it
quick and easy, read , simply, to do. A nice Tonneau cover went on top. OK
truck was useless as a truck, in that configuration, but, hell, he was maxed
out on the GVW anyhow. But what a great PULLER he had like for trailers, so
if ya have something to haul ,get a trailer!
As Dave Roden mentioned on here recently, Trojan makes a deeper, deep
,cycle Floor Sweeper 6 volt battery, taller than the golf carts. Maybe
120-150 volts of them would give ya KW like paralleled T- Whatevers?You have
plenty of headroom in the bed for them. Going to a battery wearhouse is like
going to a candy store for me , anyhow, all these neat looking batteries
around. I think you could come in to your budget, shopping around, tough
part is finding a nice truck, clean, without Rust-O-Matic that they all come
standard in CT!
Just a few thoughts
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was won by an individual in La Canada, California. For $21.09.
Don't that make ya sick!
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
Merry CHRISTmas
>
> ---, Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So did someone win this? Any way to find out the winning bid?
>
> Tim Humphrey wrote:
>
>> Sorry for the late notice....
>>
>> Gov't surplus auction
>>
>> 7800 lbs of SAFT Aircraft starting NiCads - unused, mftd 11/95.
>> Located in Richmond Va.
>>
>>
>> Bids must be in by 0800 Eastern, 7 Dec. Can bid electronically.
>>
>> See item 21 in http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5006.pdf
>>
>> I have no further information....
>>
> --- End forwarded message ---
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
Well, I'm still having fun, but I'm also working out the bugs. I was
stuck in the Wal-Mart parking lot yesterday for about 3 hours trying to
figure out what was going on. The Zilla won't let the vehicle drive
because it is waiting for the potbox to be at zero. Going into the cool
data aquisition mode, I watched the real-time values of the pot. It
reads 0 ohms when I disconnect the pot and take a measurement. Hmmm...
I'll leave out a bunch of details and get to what I believe is the root
of the problem. When I measure from the 12V battery ground to anywhere
on the chassis with the vehicle completely off, I get about .8 ohms.
Sounds about right. But as soon as I turn the ignition to the "On"
position, I get 6-7 ohms. I believe this is related to the potbox
problem because if I watch the DAQ (data acquisition) with the ignition
off, I get normal off readings, but as soon as I turn on the ignition,
the potbox reading jumps up (even though I haven't pressed on the pedal).
Any help figuring this out would be great!
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
Christmas Discounts throughout the season!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan,
Ryan Bohm wrote:
> I'll leave out a bunch of details and get to what I believe is
the
> root of the problem. When I measure from the 12V battery
ground to
> anywhere on the chassis with the vehicle completely off, I get
about
> .8 ohms. Sounds about right. But as soon as I turn the
ignition to
> the "On" position, I get 6-7 ohms. I believe this is related
to the
> potbox problem because if I watch the DAQ (data acquisition)
with the
> ignition off, I get normal off readings, but as soon as I turn
on the
> ignition, the potbox reading jumps up (even though I haven't
pressed
> on the pedal).
Weird 12V auto electric problems are often caused by grounding
problems. You probably have already looked, but just in case...
Have you checked the negative ground cable on your 12V battery?
Make sure that it is tight at both ends. Check that the chassis
is free from paint and corrosion where the ground is bolted, it
needs to make good contact. Are you using the original grounding
point from when the car was an ICE?
Hope that helps
Dean
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Harris, Lawrence wrote:
It's gone - removed by eBay...
Lawrence
<snip>
It's back!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6737&item=4512963146&rd=1
I asked him a question...maybe he means to make a hybrid car? That the
old engine generates the power to the electric motor?
Well, we'll see how it goes... There's no way in heck I'm bidding on it,
but I'll keep asking questions until my curiosity is satisfied. :)
-Dee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Bob I will try Jerry Warfield tomorow, your right about all that gas
fumes, our first year at the rink was with a propane unit that we got from
another rink and my Dad got quite sick from the nitric oxide fumes. It sure is
nice now that I am using the converted HB. I believe that there is a company in
Quebec that does conversions but I know little of them, I just know that mine
runs great with the exception that the turning radius is 20+ feet while the
Model 400 is only 15 feet and our rink is smaller so I can really use the
tighter machine.
Thanks for your thoughts
Ellery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey guys, Great News!!
I just bought a 300 HP motor off Ebay that can run on 24 volts, and NEVER
needs to be recharged!
I'm just waiting for shipment now.
I wonder why the auto companies have not brought this to market?
:)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Bohm wrote:
I'll leave out a bunch of details and get to what I believe is
the
root of the problem. When I measure from the 12V battery
ground to
anywhere on the chassis with the vehicle completely off, I get
about
.8 ohms. Sounds about right. But as soon as I turn the
ignition to
the "On" position, I get 6-7 ohms. I believe this is related
to the
potbox problem because if I watch the DAQ (data acquisition)
with the
ignition off, I get normal off readings, but as soon as I turn
on the
ignition, the potbox reading jumps up (even though I haven't
pressed
on the pedal).
How about isolating as many of the HV related components from chassis ground
as possible?
Like... controller, charger, potbox, contactors?
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tom Shay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You can't lift the front end bell off. The bearing won't
> slide out of the end bell or off the shaft. A motor shop
> can take the bell off but I don't know they do it. The
> other end bell ( the one with the brushes) will lift off
> easily.
Sorry if someone else has already addressed this. but I'm just catching
up on 10 days worth of accumulated emails.
You most certainly *can* remove both endbells from the ADC 9". The
front (output end) bellhousing comes off the armature with the bearing
captured into the casting by a snap ring. The rear (brush end)
bellhousing does not have a snap ring so the bearing may come out in the
casting or not. As I recall, the wavy washer is between the brush end
bearing and the armature.
There is a good sequence of pictures at
<http://gwinfo.net/e-fiero/re-clutching/index.htm> documenting the
tear-down/rebuild of the ADC 9" in VEVA member Gordon Wong's Fiero.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi James and All,
> Once I move my commute will drasticly change. It
> will go to a 75 mile
> round trip with about 1/2 of that being 55 zone and
> the rest being
> "city" driving. That would mean a car that has a
> range of 90 miles in
> *any* weather (without recharging) *AND* that can go
> about 40 miles of
> that at "highway" speed.
>
> So am I spitting into the wind or is this possible
> to do. Now by
> possible, I mean can it be done for a price that I
> can afford to pay. I
> know if I wanted to spend 20k on a Lithium Ion or
> other "Superpack" I
> could do it. But I'd like to do the whole project
> for not more than
> 10-12k (plus the donor car).
>
> So am I dreaming?
Depends ;-)
Easily if you design, build from scratch. But for
most people, that's not going to happen.
To keep prices low, you need a light, aero car
that can be made lighter, more aero.
The 93 MR2 fastback would be a good starting
point. Or an early RX-7 before they porked out. And of
course, a Karman Ghia or an early CRX.
Then get their wt-hr/mile down below
125wt-hrs/mile with low drag tires, aero mods, ect.
Buy 15kw of Saft ni-cads for about $8,500 with
it's watering system to supply the juice and it should
do it easily.
If you really do the drag reduction right like
John Bryan did, a 10kw pack would do, saving money,
weight. You could start with a 10kw, $5,500 pack and
increase it if, when nessasary.
Say a 120-144vdc, 100amphr pack would get you
100-150 miles peak so easily do your range needs all
yr round.
With an 8" motor, a curtis controller, ect you
should be able to get under $12,000 if you do most of
the work yourself.
$12 grand is a lot of money but not for a 100+
mile EV with batts that last for 20 yrs.
If I was going to pay that much for a car, I'd
build an EV instead.
Or do it in lead with a Carmaro, they are light
for their strength after the engine comes out and can
be easily made aero and have lightweight tilting
fiberglass front clips, ect available.
In the near future gas will get much more
expensive and electricity is cheaper comparatively now
and by far our most secure energy source.
At 100wthr/mile, electricity is only $.01/mile!!!
Compared to gas prices even now, that's a bargin and
will pay back in gas savings at 125wt-hrs/mile, 75
mpd, about $6/day or more, completely in 6.66 yrs at
$2/gal and it should last another 15 yrs after that
with maintaince, saving even more. YMMV!!!
So the question is can you, we, not afford EV's
when designed, built right?
Do the math and show your wife, she'll be pleased.
I got into EV's to save money and they really can
if a little thought is put into it. There is no
reason that an EV can't be 1/2 the total costs of an
ICE car the same type, age.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> James
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Jazz up your holiday email with celebrity designs. Learn more.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tim and All,
This would apply to Madman's and other
battery chargers also. That may help a lot of people!!
jerry dycus
--- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK, I did a (very)little research.
>
> See:
>
http://www.irs.gov/publications/p535/ch12.html#d0e10778
>
> Under the clean fuel vehicle property section....
>
> You can basically take a $2000.00 deduction for the
> cost of installing
> clean fuel vehicle property and it's supporting
> infrastructure..
> i.e electric motor and batteries.
>
> OR
>
> you can take a deduction for purchasing a new
> electric vehicle.
>
> So I was wrong before, there is a way to get a
> federal deduction for doing
> an EV conversion
>
>
> --
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you
> are right!" --Henry Ford
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone got a link handy to this. I'ts that time of year again and I want my
wife to read it but I can't seem to find it.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote it so you could ask him. It was great!
Roderick Wilde
Anyone got a link handy to this. I'ts that time of year again and I want my
wife to read it but I can't seem to find it.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Anyone got a link handy to this. I'ts that time of year again
> and I want my wife to read it but I can't seem to find it.
Do you mean "A Christmas Car", my parody of Dicken's "A Christmas
Carol"? David Brandt has kindly posted this, and some of my other
writing on his website at
http://www.100megsfree.com/davidbr13/evgems/evgems.htm
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I just bought a 300 HP motor off Ebay that can run on 24 volts, and NEVER
> needs to be recharged!
>
> I'm just waiting for shipment now.
So now all you need are batteries that can put out 12000A and you'll be set.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, that's it, many thanks. I do love this story.
James
Quoting Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Anyone got a link handy to this. I'ts that time of year again
> > and I want my wife to read it but I can't seem to find it.
>
> Do you mean "A Christmas Car", my parody of Dicken's "A Christmas
> Carol"? David Brandt has kindly posted this, and some of my other
> writing on his website at
> http://www.100megsfree.com/davidbr13/evgems/evgems.htm
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay...Now, I'm no physicist, but the answer I got makes my head hurt. :)
[From my Ebay 'Ask a question' form]
Dear *ddreslough*,
You asked:
/"Is this a plan for a hybrid, where you're using the old car engine to
charge the 2 batteries and somehow pass the charge through to the
electric motor?"/
Here's some of his answer, paraphrased:
"[take a regular car] beef up the starter motor [and use this to start
forward motion] and give it a means to recharge itself while it's running."
(I'm trying to use as little of the answer as possible to avoid passing
out of fair-use territory. I wish I could just post the whole letter.
*le grumble* This is academic discussion... eh. I won't risk it.)
Now -- from my limited understanding of the laws of the universe: This
might work for a short time in a perfectly flat world - it would just
run until the batteries ran out of juice to allow the motor to overcome
internal friction between the wheels and the axles and the wheels and
the road, right? Two flooded batteries vs. a 300hp electric motor
pushing 3000lbs of car maybe? I don't know how long that would last...
He's based in Florida, which is pretty darned flat, but not *that* flat.
Otherwise, this requires an all-downhill situation, I think, to work. In
which case, an orange crate and four roller skates *also* works, with no
batteries involved. Mm..Maybe I should draw up some blueprints of my
own... :)
-Dee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I too emailed him today with some rather frank
questions and the mail was returned as undeliverable.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But the good news is you only need two of them. Too bad Rich doesn't get
to build you a charger.
At 12/22/2004 09:07 PM, you wrote:
> I just bought a 300 HP motor off Ebay that can run on 24 volts, and NEVER
> needs to be recharged!
>
> I'm just waiting for shipment now.
So now all you need are batteries that can put out 12000A and you'll be set.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a formatted html version of this story on evdl.org - it's at
http://www.evdl.org/pages/xmascar.html
It should print nicely in most browsers, if you're so inclined.
I've never put up a public link to it because I haven't gotten permission
from Lee to do so, but I don't think he'll object to me posting it here.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation, or
switch to digest mode? See http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Their talk was the talk of sordid buccaneers: it was
reckless without hardihood, greedy without audacity,
and cruel without courage; there was not an atom of
foresight ... in the whole batch of them, and they did
not seem aware these things are wanted for the work of
the world.
-- Joseph Conrad, "Heart of Darkness"
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think I have some of all the above laying around, if someone wants one or
two to play with!!
I probably wouldn't want to sell the push-button ones, as they are worth
more, both as antiques and sentimental.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 11:51 AM
Subject: Re: Heater/defroster ideas?
> Mike Chancey wrote:
> > For anyone interested in using a hair dryer as a heat source you
> > might want to check out a switch I ran across at, of all places,
> > Home Depot. I was shocked to notice they carry those old style
> > surface mount light switches, and that they are still AC/DC rated.
>
>
http://www.levitonproducts.com/Catalog/Model_1210.htm?SID=V8RG5A7FCQGS8PADTG4AQB6HRTUU6R53&PID=1208
>
> Yep! That's the old classic light switch found in grandpa's basement or
> garage. They were designed in the days of Tom Edison's 110 volt DC
> power.
>
> There are a couple other types from that era that are still available
> (either used, or as new old stock -- a dusty box found in the back of
> someone's warehouse). One is a round switch, with a knob that your
> rotate 1/4 turn to switch it on/off. They are also rated 120v or 240v DC
> 10a (depending on the model).
>
> Another common type is a normal-sized wall switch that mounts just like
> a modern home light switch inside the wall; except that it has round
> "on" and and "off" buttons.
>
> Another is a normal-looking wall switch with the same type of lever and
> mounting as a modern home light switch. But the part inside the wall is
> a huge ceramic body, with large contacts that have a huge off-spacing
> (over 1/4").
>
> All these types work on DC because they have snap-acting contacts (make
> a substantial "clack!" when switched), and huge off-state contact
> spacings (typically over 1/4").
>
> I have one of this last type with DPST 240v DC 10a contacts, and a few
> of the rotary-type SPST 240v DC 10a contacts if anyone needs one.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
**If** the guy is not trying to defraud,
what's his setup?
did he say anything incorrectly in his ad (eg motor HP, number of
batteries used)?
"it's fully self contained and charging." Could mean a generator does the
charging. But he doesn't say that but he doesn't plug it in. What does he
do about charging?
Can you pass an emissions test with a generator?
What does he mean by "no limitation restrictions."?
He can't spell "strict" and "vehicle" correctly but has no problem with
"restriction"
and "functional". As an ASE tech for 20 years, you think he would have no
problem spelling "vehicle".
His ad is not clear and very suspicious.
In all fairness, he needs to respond to our questions. If not, then we
should
petition eBay to cancel his auction.
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 19:19 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re: perpetual motion snake oil on ebay
>
> --- Peter Eckhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > In reading over the ad, did he mean to say "24" car batteries instead of
the
> > printed "2"? If the car moved at all, he could not have done it with
just 2
> > batteries. He could not run the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds on 2 car
batteries.
> > Could he run the 1/4 mile in 14 seconds on 24 batteries?
> >
> > Did he print "300" hp thinking that "30" hp sounds incorrect for
something
> > that should be all powerful? What car owner buys an ICE with just 30
hp?
> >
>
> He wrote;
> "All on 2 car batteries, no plugging it in and no solar panels. and most
of all theres no limit
> restrictions, it's fully self contained and charging."
>
> I don't think there's any question about his intention.
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:38:44 -0700, Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'll leave out a bunch of details and get to what I believe is the root
>of the problem. When I measure from the 12V battery ground to anywhere
>on the chassis with the vehicle completely off, I get about .8 ohms.
>Sounds about right. But as soon as I turn the ignition to the "On"
>position, I get 6-7 ohms. I believe this is related to the potbox
>problem because if I watch the DAQ (data acquisition) with the ignition
>off, I get normal off readings, but as soon as I turn on the ignition,
>the potbox reading jumps up (even though I haven't pressed on the pedal).
Sounds like a grounding problem. You really can't measure the resistance
of the ground with a common DVM - the resistance is too low - and you
can't measure it with the battery connected.
The way most all DMMs measure resistance is to pass a small but known
current through the unknown, measure the voltage drop and compute the ohms
value using ohm's law. Any outside source of voltage, such as voltage
drop caused by other current flowing, the thermocouple effect and so on,
will make the reading incorrect.
A good ground path should be under a few milliohms, something no ordinary
DMM can measure.
Further evidence of a bad ground is that your controller's pot box reading
increases when you turn on the ignition, causing current to flow through
the 12 volt ground.
The first thing you need to do is take a look at the actual ground
connection on the car. Is it clean and free of rust? Is it bonded to a
sturdy part of the car chassis so that there won't be much voltage drop
through the body metal? Ideally, all 12 volt grounds should terminate in
one place, where the minus battery cable ties in. This "one point ground"
prevents voltage drop from current flowing through the body from
interfering with low level signals. The Zilla signal negative should be
wired back to the negative cable instead of just being tied to the nearest
hunk of chassis. Sometimes you can get away with such things but in this
case you can't, it appears.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
