EV Digest 4013
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Modifications for the Citroen: battery choice
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Hydro caps, Re: "very important that you allow the battery to
gas"?
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: sam's club agm "nascar" batteries
by "Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: The Amazing Little Hawkers.
by Paul G <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Flooded batt watering systems and : Hydro caps,
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Blueprinting electric motors
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Wire burnout on the Power Wheels
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Torque converters for DD EV's, Re: KISS AC EV Drive System
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Hawker Odyssey float voltage
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) New way to charge. Rudman/Hart please take note.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Thoughts on use of TS cells
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Electrogel And Batcure. A cure for dead batteries?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Flooded batt watering systems and : Hydro caps,
by "Paul Compton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Multiple Powertool chargers as Ni Cad Pack charger
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Multiple Powertool chargers as Ni Cad Pack charger/Braided
interconnects?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Flooded batt watering systems and : Hydro caps,
by Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: LED Head Lights?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Torque converters for DD EV's, Re: KISS AC EV Drive System
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Multiple Powertool chargers as Ni Cad Pack charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everybody. I've taken the Citroen "D" off the road for the winter in
favour of my "winter beater" Mazda EV B-2000. I have plans for the D,
including a new pack. In Novermber I blew a cell in one of the US250HC
batteries that I have been using in this 96 volt sepex powered sedan. I
guess that my 50 km trip to the cottage is a little too much for this
pack: it is always pretty weak near the end, when I have to accelerate
up a gentle slope to highway speeds, and it is hard to keep the
floodies' voltage up above safe levels.
I had a chance to see Doug Hartley's Skoda at a show in St Jerome last
September. He has 300 Ah of TS Li-ions, 75 Ah of AGM's, and an e-cycle
generator as a range extender. You may recall Doug's post about a 250
km road trip last fall. Well, that impressed the heck out of me, and
I've made arrangements for Doug to make me a small e-cycle genset for
the D. My plan is to use a lighter weight pack of AGM's that will
fulfill nearly all of my around-town needs, and have the ability to fire
up the genset for longer trips. The genset will provide 35-40 amps at
pack voltage, using a 7 HP Robin-Subaru gas motor.
So I'm considering battery options, looking at specs in the East
Penn-Deka line of gels. Here is some correspondence from Doug:
>===== Original Message From "Doug Hartley"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> =====
>
>Why not use 16 of the 8GGC2 6V 180 Amp-Hr (at 20 Hr. rate) at 68.2
pounds each = 1095 pounds? This is a battery similar in size to a Golf
Cart battery, reasonable to handle (no crane needed!), no buddy pairing
of 12V batteries needed, less cabling and cells to have problems, no
concerns about how the current is splitting between batteries, etc. It
seems very similar to the battery my friend Carlo in Germany is using,
but perhaps has a little larger rated capacity. In case you missed my
recent Jan. 3 post on Gel batteries, this may encourage you about using
6V gel batteries:
>...snip..........................
>
There is something peculiar about the specs on the Deka 8GGC2 6 volters.
If I compare 30 minute discharge rate between these and the 8G24 and
8G27 alternatives I get:
8GGC2 68.4 lbs 150 amps x 2 = 12 volts @ 150 amps
8G27 63.2 lbs 95 amps x 2 = 12 volts @ 190 amps
8G24 53.6 lbs 80 amps x 2 = 12 volts @ 160 amps
(amps at 30 minute rate)
I'd need 16 of each to make a pack. It looks to me that there is
more capacity in the buddy-paired 12 volters than in the 6 volters, at
less weight. Even the 8G24, which weigh 15 lbs less than the 8GGC2,
will give me 160 amps for 30 minutes, in buddy pairs. Am I missing
something?
On the "con" side, there would be the connections. I'm assuming 2
strings of 2-0 wire connecting 8 modules each, plus 16 pairs of smaller
gauge wire to parallel the buddy pairs. (I saw this connection scheme
in a previous list message, but don't recall if the gauge of the
smaller wires was specified). I would not worry about current sharing,
mainly because I'm ignorant. Perhaps the proposed series-parallel
scheme would minimize imbalance between the buddies.
On the "pro" side, with the 12 volters I'd be able to use the 12
volt regs I already have, one on each buddy pair.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Mike
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody.
Last weekend I installed an Aquapro watering system
http://www.aquapro.net/index.html that I bought from Randy Holmquist
http://www.canev.com/ (for some reason, the aquapro link does not load
properly in the version of Mozilla that I am using, but it worked ok
with Internet Explorer)
I had originally intended to use them on the Citroen but I'm probably
going to go with sealed batteries for that car, so I put them on 16 of
the 24 modules on the Mazda pickup.
Installation was straightforward, though I had a few hassles with
clearance of connecting cables. They are taller than regular vent caps;
but I can attest to their strength. When I closed the tilt box on the
pickup, somewhat forcefully, I found out the hard way that there was
insufficient clearance under one of the cross members on the underside
of the box. The watering cap did not break, but the top of the battery
split and caved in. Sigh.
I watered the 16 batteries after hooking everything up. They all filled
in jsut over a minute! It would have been even faster if I had put the
tank on the roof of the cab instead of on a cart. Hoo Hoo! This will
make watering the batteries a snap!
The only potential problem I see is that there is standing water in some
of the lines. I'm going to have to put some serious insulation around
the lines connecting the front and rear parts of the pack before I park
the truck all day at -20C.
Mike
jerry dycus wrote:
While these are cool if your charge profile is low
in the gassing state. If gassed too much like we do
with EV's, they can overheat and even melt, causing
problems.
Better would be an auto watering system to make
watering easier like SAFT's ni-cads use.
IIRC, Flowrite is a brand of them for GC types..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of Optimas...at work we have bought 7 optima yellow tops over the
years. I have noticed some label differences between them. I assume the
number melted into the case is the date code.
D/C AH Reserve CCA
0112 65 124 750
3322 55 120 750
2130 55 120 650
3105 55 120 750
2130 55 120 650
3105 55 120 750
0112 65 124 750
Can anyone decipher the Date Code? Make sense of the rating differences?
Tim
I was in Sam's club and saw that they are selling agm batteries now. They
were black and had 6 cylinders, much like the optimas. Is this a generic
version of the optima? Does anyone have any information on these? They
were only $100.
Mike Barber
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.9 - Release Date: 1/6/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich wrote:
With regulators installed on each monoblock, the 15.0 will be
clamped to ~14.5 to keep it from gassing excessively while
the other monoblocks continue charging at 3 amps.
Roger wrote:
Which tells me that the charger is pushing 3A into the pack, and
therefore this is the current going into the modules whose regs are
inactive.
Since the reg load is a resistor (or used to be) it tells me that the
battery is charging at 167ma if the reg bypassed 3 amps at 15 volts.
The fact that the battery does not quickly drop all they way down to
13.6 volts (then continue dropping slowly to around 13.2 volts) tells
me that it is still charging.
This gets into the problem of a simple voltage cutback without a
bypass ability. Once an Optima is full it can sit at 15 volts with as
little as 200ma flowing through it. Trying to bring the rest of the
pack to full at 200ma is going to take a LONG time. I hope the
difference isn't 2ah (10 hours!)
Neon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Tom, Michael and All,
On the hydro caps they have a catalyst,
platnium I believe to encourage H2,O2, to combine back
into water.
Without the catalyst, it would be how Tom
said.
I hear AGM's have a cat plated on their lids
to do the same thing to keep them from venting.
--- Michael Hoskinson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi EVerybody.
>
> Last weekend I installed an Aquapro watering system
> http://www.aquapro.net/index.html that I bought from
> Randy Holmquist
> http://www.canev.com/ (for some reason, the
> aquapro link does not load
> properly in the version of Mozilla that I am using,
> but it worked ok
> with Internet Explorer)
I looked at the websites but didn't find any
pricing.
How much did they costs as I will need some soon?
It sure would save some work, hassle over the yrs,
especially when the batts get old.
For the water in the lines, could you blow it out
with light air pressure?
If you enclose, heat and insulate your batt pack,
freezing shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
>
> I had originally intended to use them on the Citroen
> but I'm probably
> going to go with sealed batteries for that car, so I
> put them on 16 of
> the 24 modules on the Mazda pickup.
>
> Installation was straightforward, though I had a few
> hassles with
> clearance of connecting cables. They are taller
> than regular vent caps;
> but I can attest to their strength. When I closed
> the tilt box on the
> pickup, somewhat forcefully, I found out the hard
> way that there was
> insufficient clearance under one of the cross
> members on the underside
> of the box. The watering cap did not break, but the
> top of the battery
> split and caved in. Sigh.
>
> I watered the 16 batteries after hooking everything
> up. They all filled
> in jsut over a minute! It would have been even
> faster if I had put the
> tank on the roof of the cab instead of on a cart.
> Hoo Hoo! This will
> make watering the batteries a snap!
>
> The only potential problem I see is that there is
> standing water in some
> of the lines. I'm going to have to put some serious
> insulation around
> the lines connecting the front and rear parts of the
> pack before I park
> the truck all day at -20C.
>
> Mike
>
>
> jerry dycus wrote:
>
> > While these are cool if your charge profile is
> low
> > in the gassing state. If gassed too much like we
> do
> > with EV's, they can overheat and even melt,
> causing
> > problems.
> > Better would be an auto watering system to
> make
> > watering easier like SAFT's ni-cads use.
> > IIRC, Flowrite is a brand of them for GC
> types..
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Often, to take two steps forward, you have to take one step back.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I agree, but most of the listers are not kids.
> Also, wrecking 2 EVs to get one right is sort of wasteful.
> Have your kids purchase this planks of wood for $50 a piece
> from you and they *will* listen to you before their first attempt.
>
> That is what experiments with real EVs by adults often boil down to.
> If I could wreck components for free, I'd do much more
> experimentation :-)
Victor, perhaps this has led us to the heart of the problem -- people's
learning style.
Some people are very cautious and conservative. They listen to
authorities, and want clear, step-by-step instructions. They learn the
most from their successes, and are afraid of mistakes. They don't ask
"Why?"; they say "Just tell me the *best* answer."
At the other extreme are people that are daring and ambitious. They
question authority. They ignore directions, or make changes "to see what
will happen if...." They ask "Why" all the time, and will study or
experiment until they get an answer. They want lots of choices, so
*they* can decide what is best, not some expert. They are not afraid of
mistakes, and often learn the most from them.
I suspect that people who want to build an EV are more likely to be the
second type. So, I am more likely to provide lots of information, and
lots of alternatives.
Victor, I think you are better at answering questions for the second
sort of people, that want clear unambiguous answers.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Zach wrote:
> That is a nice thought however the kids seem to have two speeds:
> "Off" and "Full blast".
This is actually true for any underpowered EV, including electric bikes
and CitiCars.
> Currently I'm thinking of completely re-wiring the car by using a pair
> of auto starter contactors
These are intermittent-duty only. They will burn up if left on for long.
You need one with a continuous duty coil.
> one attached to a big resistor, one bypassing said resistor
> for low and high speeds.
I used this strategy on my son's electric minibike. However, the
resistor was really an NPN darlington power transistor. The handlebar
"throttle" was just an on/off switch. It was wired like this:
+12v______________________
| _|_
throttle / D1 / \ motor
switch |___|\|___ \___/
| |/| |_ |
> K1 _| |
R1 > 12v _| |
> |______|
| | |
|_______|/ c |
+_|_ b |\ Q1 |
C1 ___ |e / K1's NO contact
COM______|_________|______|
When you close the throttle switch, C1 charges thru R1. R1 was chosen to
provide about 15-20 amps to the motor at stall. This prevented a
starting "lurch" and provides a crude current limit.
C1 was chosen to provide a few seconds delay in turning Q1 fully on.
This provided some time to accellerate up to full speed (5 mph or so).
K1's 12v coil is also powered by the throttle switch. At first, the
transistor is mostly off, so K1 is off. As the motor speeds up, its
voltage rises. When the motor voltage reaches about 75% or 9v, K1 pulls
in. The NO contact of K1 then shorts Q1, so it won't overheat. I.e. you
can't run continuously with the transistor in the circuit (it would
require a huge heatsink or burn up).
When you release the throttle switch, K1's coil loses its power. D1
prevents the coil from being powered by current thru the motor. So K1's
contact opens. Q1 also turns off, since it has no base current. So the
motor stops.
This circuit works, but has some limitations. If the battery is nearly
dead, it fails to pull in the relay and the transistor overheats. And,
kids *will* keep driving until the battery is dead. If I did it again,
I'd add a thermal cutout switch.
> Problem is what I really need then is a resetting circuit breaker
> to protect the motor
This circuit "sort of" limits motor current. A stalled or overloaded
motor won't reach a high enough voltage to pull in K1.
> and something to re-enable the plug braking. Plug brakes could
> probably be done with a 10amp relay and resistor set so that it
> shorts across the motor when off and clears when on, powered by
> the floor switch.
On the motorcycle, I put a second switch on the other handgrip. It
operates a relay that disconnects power from the motor and shorts it.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> What I haven't found is a free-standing torque converter that
>> also has a locking clutch.
jerry dycus wrote:
> That was what I was hoping for, a locking torque converter.
> I'll see if I can find one at a reasonable price.
Let us know if you do!
> Regretfully I don't think belt type torque converters can handle
> a series motor's torque.
One thought for a light EV is to use a variable-speed pulley CVT, with a
chain and one-way clutch in parallel with it. At the lowest speed, the
chain sets the ratio. Then let the CVT pulleys engage, increasing the
output speed (lower ratio). The one-way clutch on the output axle lets
it be driven at a faster speed.
The CVT belt and pulleys could be much smaller and lighter (and thus
lower loss) than one sized for full motor HP. You don't need (or have)
max torque at max speed.
In reverse, the one-way clutch always slips; so the CVT is all you have
for reverse. But that's fine -- who drag races in reverse?
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I got an Odyssey PC625 battery to replace the U1 flooded I was using as
> the 12v battery in my Jeep. As my DC/DC converter is always on, I want
> to make sure I have the ignition-off voltage set correctly.
>
> The Odyssey factory website says a proper charger is one that "would
> bring the battery up to 14.5V then switch to a float voltage of 13.6V"
> So is 13.6V good? Will the float voltage need to be changed based on
> temperature? The Odyssey is a noticeable improvement over the flooded I
> had as the voltage never sags below 12 volts like it used to.
13.6v "forever" will give you a battery life of only a few years. If you
can have two different voltages (one while driving, one while parked),
then use a lower float voltage, 13.2-13.5v for longer life.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found a company that has the smarts to charge NiCad but needs a DC source.
http://www.flexcharge.com/ They are an alternative energy company that
usually gets the DC from Hydro, solar & wind. Maybe it could be adapted to
our purposes.
Rich I hope this might be a way to keep me from becoming a Superfund site.
It might even be a cost effective way to do NiCads safely without
babysitting. They use voltage sensing. I'm thinking a Variac for the
source and this unit for control might work. Maybe not. Your comments
would be welcome. Dividing up the different duties needed for charging
might be a good thing. Seems you charger could be controlled by this unit.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tuesday, January 4, 2005, at 08:28 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It seems you would want each li-ion cell as large as possible to
minimize the
imbalances of paralleling. I think a perfect use for the cells at
http://www.everspring.net/product-battery-LP5453B.htm would be a 72V
pack in a
Karmen Ghia with a sepex motor fed by a Curtis 35-80V/600A SepEx
controller.
You'd never get the cells near their 1000A peak rating but still have
42kw peak
and some of the benefits of an AC drive (regen, simple reverse,
programmable
parameters). A 660#/36kwh pack certainly wouldn't overstress the
suspension,
and 20 cells shouldn't be too hard to stow (say, 10 where the tank
sits, 5 to
each side of the motor bay?),
Given that I was able to fit 16 Orbitals into my Ghia, I'm sure you're
correct. It was easy - eight behind the back seat and eight under the
front hood. None in the engine bay. It remains to be seen how it will
handle, though. I'm hoping for the best, and treating this arrangement
as temporary until proven.
Others (John Bryan for one) have also managed to fit unlikely numbers
of batteries into the Karmann Ghia. John didn't worry about modifying
the sheet metal on his car and preserved his cargo space behind the
back seat, plus he was able to mount most of his batteries lower than
mine.
Jay Donnaway is also working to stuff lots of batteries into his Ghia.
He's got a bit less room than John and I because he has a convertible,
but he's not afraid to get out the welder either.
Anyway, VW Karmann Ghias have a lot of useful space for stowing
batteries. Pity the engine bay is so open to the elements, though.
the only hitch being the usual questions of
lifespan, BMS technique, and a $15K pricetag *before* shipping costs.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Subject: Electrogel And Batcure
From:
Patrick Bailey ine@ padrak.com
NEN SEP 2004 Part 2
Electrogel And Batcure
pacenet@ canada.com
You may find these innovations from India for recycling batteries helpful.
Andrew Michrowski
The Planetary Association for Clean Energy, Inc.
100 Bronson Avenue, Suite 1001
Ottawa, Ontario K1R 6G8 Canada
From: "Suresh" KV045@ hotmail.com
Wed, 4 Aug 2004
Subject: ELECTROGEL AND BATCURE
ELECTROGEL (SYNTHETIC POLYMER GEL ELECTROLYTE)
WHAT IS ELECTROGEL?
ELECTROGEL is a viscous water white synthetic polymer gel electrolyte FREE
from SILICA. It is soluble in water, acid and other ionic solvents. It is
manufactured using specilaty chemicals and proprietory process for the first
time.
ELECTROGEL is a revolutionary product for the battery industry. It is non
corrosive, stable, odour free, non-hazardous, non-flammable.
WHY ELECTROGEL FOR BATTERIES?
The two major problems related to lead acid batteries are CORROSION and
SULPHATION. Unless and until non-corrosive electrolyte is developed for the
batteries, these two problems continue to limit the life and performance of
the batteries. It is therefore very important to minimise the negative role
of sulphuric acid as an electrolyte for the batteries.
ELECTROGEL is developed to meet the challenges posed by highly corrosive
sulphuric acid for the battery.
ELECTROGEL offers following major advantages to battery.
(1) PROTECTS POSITIVE PLATES FROM CORROSION.
(2) PROTECTS NEGATIVE PLATES FROM SULPHATION.
(3) PROTECTS PLATES FROM EXTERNAL AND INTERNAL HEAT.
(4) PROTECTS ACTIVE MATERIALS FROM SHEDDING.
(5) VERY LOW WATER loss.
(6) PROTECTION AGAINST DEEP DISCHARGES.
(7) LONG LIFE BATTERY.
(8) ENVIRONMENT FREINDLY BATTERY.
(9) ALL WEATHER BATTERY.
HOW ELECTROGEL PREVENTS CORROSION AND SULPHATION? ELECTROGEL when filled
into the new battery along with sulphuric acid, it utilises the power from
the charged plates and turns into a viscous gel within 3 to 4 hours
depending on the size of the battery. On charging the battery, the viscous
gel slowly turns into a compact protective film on each battery plate The
protective film so formed prevents direct attack of ionic sulphate ions on
the battery grids. The compact film also helps to check the volumetric
expansion/contraction of active materials during charge/discharge process
thereby shedding of active materials is prevented. Migration of corrosion by
products from positive plates is elimininated by the film. The protective
film also checks the heat generation during charge/discharge process.
Dynamic and static sulphation are best prevented by the film as after film
formation negative plates active materials remain free from contamination.
PREVENTION OF ACTIVE MATERIAL SHEDDING:
Formed positive plates tend to shed active materials during battery
manufacturing process. It also increases the fine dust in the plant and is
hazardus to the working conditions. The dark black material also sticks to
the hands and body of the workers.
To eliminate this problem applied with 10% ELECTROGEL solution in water. On
drying, the fine adhesive film will form on +ve plate active materials which
will prevent the shedding of active materials.
HOW MUCH EXTRA LIFE ELECTROGEL GIVES?
Our field and laboratory trials have shown that ELECTROGEL almost gives more
than double the life. Depending upon battery manufacturing technology, still
better results are expected.
CAN ELECTROGEL BE USED FOR ALL TYPES OF LEAD ACID BATTERIES?
ELECTROGEL can be used for all types of lead acid batteries. Either tubular
or flate plates, ELECTROGEL helps to enhance the life of the battery.
HOW TO USE ELECTROGEL IN BATTERY?
Prepare a mixture of ELECTROGEL and sulphuric acid (15% ELECTROGEL+ 85
%SULPHURIC ACID of 1300 S.G for automotive battery and 1350 S.G. for
industrial battery).Final S.G. of mixture will be 1260 for automotive
battery and 1290 for industrial battery. ELECTROGEL and acid must be
thoroughly mixed.
Filling of ELECTROGEL + ACID mixture into a new battery should be done
carefully to avoid excessive heat and gas generation. We strongly recommend
that batteries to be filled with mixture must therefore be immersed into
cold water bath up to plate height. Water bath temp. should be 20 to 25
degree centigrade or
less. Fill the mixture up to plate height only. Leave the batteries into
water bath for 3 hours to cool down.
Take out the batteries from water bath after 3 hours and leave them outside
for further cooling for another 6 to 9 hours. If topping up is required, add
mixture to cover up to plate height.(If water bath is not used then gel
mixture with flow out of battery due to heat and gas). Cooled batteries be
then put to charging using either constant current or constant voltage
charger. Normal charging procedure be followed. During charging process if
topping up is required, add the mixture. Fully charged battery be removed
from machine, allow to cool down and topped up with mixture. During battery
serviceing/maintenance topping be done with distilled water.
We are pleased to offer this new technology for your batteries.
We welcome your any questions about ELECTROGEL.
We look forward to your INTEREST.
WE ARE THE ONLY MANUFACTURER IN THE WORLD TO HAVE DEVELOPED SYNTHETIC
POLYMER GEL ELECTROLYTE FOR LEAD ACID BATTERIES PROTECTION AND PREVENTION
AGAINST BATTERY FAILURE
BATCURE
(SULPHATION INHIBITOR CUM SULPHATION REMOVER)
REVIVE YOUR SICK,WEAK,SULPHATED BATTERIES WITH BATCURE AND SAVE MONEY.
Application of BATCURE in -ve plate paste formulation.
1 ml BATCURE per kilo gram of Lead Oxide is recommended for addition to
a -ve paste prepration. Add required quantity of BATCURE in water. Then add
to Lead Oxide with other additives. You can stop adding Barium Sulphate and
Lignine to negative paste. Mix it well for 20 to 30 minutes before starting
the addition of acid. Carry out controlled addition of acid to ensure that
heat generation is minimum. Use cold water jacketed mixture for cooling.
Addition of BATCURE to -ve plate paste helps to prevent sulphation of -ve
plates, uniform charge distribution, faster charging, improved electrocast
of -ve plates and complete conversion of paste into active sponge lead.
Application of BATCURE in preventing aerial oxidation of -ve plates:
As the formation process continues the negative paste active materials turn
from non-conductive to conductive spongy lead and are being electrocast to
pure spongy lead. The spongy lead formed from active materials is free from
OXYGEN and SULPHATE ions.
The spongy lead is highly deficient of OXYGEN and in an unstable form having
developed -ve Volts up to - 0.3 Volts. Therefore when freshly formed -ve
plates when removed from formation jars and washed with water (pH 5 to 6 of
washed -ve plates) the negative plates begin to absobe OXYGEN from the air.
This is called the AERIAL OXIDATION OF FRESHLY FORMED -VE PLATES. The oxygen
from air combines with spongy lead with EXOTHERMIC REACTION and reforms the
Lead Oxide with loss of negative plate volts.
It is therefore very important to protect -ve plates from aerial oxidation
after the formation is completed. If the necessary precatutions are not
taken to protect the ve plates from oxidation, the plates will continue to
absobe more and more oxygen from air even after they come to room
temperature and will loss the -ve plates volts. In this condition the -ve
plates will be more susceptible to SULPHATION also. The shelf life of -ve
plates and the battery made out of such plates will be very poor and may
require prolonged recharging to activate the batteries.
In order to prevent aerial oxidation of -ve plates after formation is
completed, the -ve plates are dried only in inert medium having no oxygen(
Nitrogen Gas Chamber).If you do drying of -ve plates in simple heating
chamber then you are doing more damage to the -ve plates as it adds to
exothermic reaction which already begins on its own.
In order to save -ve plates from aerial oxidation a more simple and
economical method is to dip freshly formed -ve plates into a solution
containing 15 to 20 ml. BATCURE per litre of water for 4-5 hours or more.
The -ve plates should not be washed before or after dipping into the
solution. The anti-oxidation film formed on the -ve plates protects the -ve
plates from aerial oxidation as no heat generation takes place when immersed
plates taken out and allowed to dry at room temperature in less ventilated
room. The film so formed on -ve plates also helps to check SULPHATION and
increased shelf life of -ve plates at room
temperature. The above procedure is very simple, cost saving, and eliminates
the need for a time consuming costly DRY CHARGE PROCESS. Negative plates
charge retention has been found to be more 70% with BATCURE treatment.
The strength of solution be maintained periodically by addion of BATCURE and
water. We recommend to add 50 ml. BATCURE for a 100 litre solution per 1000
standard size -ve plates.
Addition of BATCURE for assembled batteries:
Battery assemblers should use 2.5 ml. BATCURE per litre of acid ( S.G.1220
to1240) to remove partial sulphation from -ve plates and faster battery
activation.
The acid containing BATCURE will also help to prevent SULPHATION at later
stage of battery service life. Addition of BATCURE to remove SULPHATION:
The premature capacity loss of a battery is mostly attributed to SULPHATION
of -ve plates. The sulphated battery does not hold charge, when put to
charging it begins gassing heavily, no increase in electrolyte gravity and
heat generation are some of the symptoms of SULPHATED battery. To revive
sulphated battery we recommend following procedure.
For wet batteries:
First find out the volume of electrolyte in each cell from battery
manufacturer's battery specification. Add 5ml. BATCURE per litre of acid
volume in each cell. Mix it well with hydrometer. Reddish yellow colore will
develope. Keep the battery under idle condition for 12 hours. The acid will
again become colorless. If the cell has been mechanically damaged no
discoloration will take place (Such battery must be discarded).If cells are
heavily sulphated it will take more time for discoloration. When all cells
have no color in the acid, the battery should be charged fully. Depending on
sulphation percentage, at least 3 to 5 charge/discharge
cycles be conducted to remove complete sulphation.(No BATCURE addition
required for every time you do cycling).
BATCURE treatment be carried out as soon as the sulphation is observed or
the battery back up graph shows downward storage capacity. Does not require
to change the acid from the batteries. On line addition of BATCURE
(preferably when batteries are in discharged state) will help to revive very
large batteries up to 16000 Ampere-hour capacity.
For VRLA type mainenance free sealed batteries.
Most of the VRLA type sealed mainetance free batteries fail to deliever
power or report a premature capacity loss due to failure of recombination
mechanisam(due to sulphation of -ve plates),drying out of immobilised
electrolyte, stratification, etc.
Such batteries should be give BATCURE treatment immediately once the storage
capacity graphs shows downward trend.
Carefully break open the seals and remove the rubber cap from vent holes.
Inject first BATCURE using doctor's plastic syringe. For 5 AMP to 10 AMP
battery use 0.5 ml BATCURE in each cell, use 1 ml per cell for 11 AMP to 20
AMP, and for every 10 AMP increase 1 ml BATCURE addition. Then add
sufficient quantity of distilled water up to plate height. Close the rubber
cap and tilt the battery for few times to mix the solution inside the
battery. Remove the cap. Allow the battery to rest for 12 hours. Then carry
out 3 to 5 charge /discharge cycles to remove the sulphation and bring it
back to full capacity. Recap the battery with rubber caps. Reseal the
battery with adhesives.
Do not try BATCURE on preganant (bulged) battery. They are explosive and
could release gasses that may damage the person.
SURESH PANDYA K.V.INTERNATIONAL,
405, ABHISHEK CENTRE, SECTOR-11,
GANDHINAGAR-382017 INDIA
PHONE; 0091793233644
FAX ; 0091793232070 MOBILE ;OO91-9824035699
website:
http://www.geocities.com/kvintl
email : kvintll@ hotmail.com
For live discussion click ICQ 349601255.
We will reply to all your battery questions.
WE ALSO MANUFACTURE "BATCURE" SULPHATION INHIBITOR CUM SULPHATION REMOVER TO
REVIVE THE SICK ,WEAK, UNSERVICEABLE BATTERIES.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hear AGM's have a cat plated on their lids
to do the same thing to keep them from venting.
Hawker used to have a nice tech paper up on this.
There is no catalyst; recombination takes place inside the separator. Oxygen
is evolved at one plate and recombines at the other. This only occours at a
limited rate and below a certain cell voltage. If the voltage is too high
hydogen is evolved at the other plate and does not recombine.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That timer might be a good idea if this doesn't work out.
http://www.flexcharge.com/
This 200 dollar unit is supposed to control Solar panels up to 50 amps.
They claim to charge NiCads as well as lead acid. It's the NiCad I am
interested in. Seems it will control any DC source. They charge NiCads by
watching the voltage and changing it. Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: Multiple Powertool chargers as Ni Cad Pack charger
At 9:17 AM -0800 1-7-05, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
I'm just looking for a solution other than a variac & stopwatch. Lawrence
Rhodes......
Please, at least as a minor step, get rid of the stopwatch and run a wind
up timer.
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/108/html/0781.html
7014K5 6 hour timer.
Or the high current ones on the same page if you need that.
I'm not proud. I have determined that I am no good at remembering to set
the timer on the microwave when I get in the house after plugging in. I
suspect it's not a common problem with us humans.
After waking up a few times at 4Am with a dreaded imagination of cooking
batteries I bought the above timer and never had to find clothes at 4 am
again.
It's no super charger, but I'd say it's much better than the grey matter
timer!
Running is no overrated, but if we can't run we should learn to walk
first....
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
(mostly still back ordered, have one Z1K-HV in stock)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Braided interconnects? How did you make them? Coat them? Thanks.
Lawrence Rhodes....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: Multiple Powertool chargers as Ni Cad Pack charger
I am pretty sure that the SAFT monoblock manual is available online. If not
let me know and I will distribute a PDF. I owe it to Bob Rice anyways, who
bought my 130 BB600 cells and *braided interconnects*
Seth
On Jan 8, 2005, at 4:26 AM, Joe Smalley wrote:
I am charging my SAFT NiCads at C/10 until the threshold voltage is
reached
and then some more AHr to stir the electrolyte.
I just finished the Commissioning charge this week and I need to read the
manual to get the correct timing and overcharge requirements for a
routine
cycle. If the C/5 power level is REQUIRED, then I will need to get a
bigger
charger. My PFC-20 will not put out the 37 amps that the STM-185s need.
Yes, I have a Windows box monitoring and controlling the process.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2005 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Multiple Powertool chargers as Ni Cad Pack charger
I think a variac charger can Quickly murder your NiCd batteries.
Joe Smalley
I know for the STM MR-MRE batteries SAFT recommends C/5 to 1.63V/cell
then
C/20
with no voltage limit (usually to 1.8V/cell). What if you just set the
voltage
to give you C/20 and adjust as needed to maintain that rate? Using C/5
would
take intense babysitting, then drop to C/20 and more watching. Not for
the
unobservant or forgetful! An e-meter/Link-10 would be a neccessity.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Aquapro stuff was not cheap, but cheaper than alternatives, AFAIK.
As of last September, cost of the Aquapro was about US$11 per cell, plus
about $40 for the fill tank. Considering how long my back and hip hurt
after I fill each cell manually, I consider it money well spent. :) To
say nothing of the acid burns on my clothes and hands... No, won't say
n-o-t-h-i-n-g about not wearing rubber gloves, will we...
Mike
.not getting any younger.
jerry dycus wrote:
...
Last weekend I installed an Aquapro watering system
http://www.aquapro.net/index.html that I bought from
Randy Holmquist
http://www.canev.com/ (for some reason, the
aquapro link does not load
properly in the version of Mozilla that I am using,
but it worked ok
with Internet Explorer)
I looked at the websites but didn't find any
pricing.
How much did they costs as I will need some soon?
It sure would save some work, hassle over the yrs,
especially when the batts get old.
For the water in the lines, could you blow it out
with light air pressure?
If you enclose, heat and insulate your batt pack,
freezing shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks,
jerry dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough wrote:
> The Luxeon tech I mentioned is a whole different ballgame compared to
> "superbright" LEDs.
Sadly, LED "brightness" is 99% marketing hype, and 1% substance. Luxeon,
like all the rest, maximizes the hype. They deliberately use confusing
units and on-standard measurements to make their products sound better
than they really are.
"Bright", "Superbright", and "Ultrabright" are all just marketing terms
with no defined meaning. The units used to measure light are
complicated, and not well understood by most non-professionals.
Marketeers take advantage of this to fool people.
"Brightness" is like force; it is equivalent to electrical voltage, or
water pressure. The brightness of a light source is usually measured in
candelas (or millicandellas; 1000 mcd = 1 cd). One candela is about the
brightness of one candle (which was the standard once upon a time). The
old name for candela is candlepower.
When they say an LED is "bright", it is like talking about a "high
voltage" battery or "high pressure" pump. It gives you NO IDEA how much
energy is actually being produced. You can stick thirteen 9v batteries
together and have 117 volts; but it wouldn't run an EV even 10 feet.
Likewise, a squirt gun delivers high pressure, but just try to take a
bath with it.
If you want to illuminate something (like a headlight to light up the
road ahead, or a room light so you can read), brightness is the wrong
measurement. What you want is illumination, measured in lumens. This is
the total power or quantity of light you get out of a source. It is
equivalent to electrical watts, or mechanical horsepower.
Normal light bulbs are rated in lumens. That's how you compare light
sources (say, tungsten, halogen, and fluorescents). If the number of
lumens is the same, they produce the same amount of light.
LED manufacturers avoid giving lumen numbers for their product because
they are so pitifully low. They prefer to give amazing brightness
numbers, often using mcd so it sounds even bigger ("1000 mcd" instead of
"1 cd"). They count on people not knowing that 1000 mcd is the
brightness of just one single lone candle; i.e. a dim, feeble, nearly
insignificant light source.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin K wrote:
>
> jerry dycus wrote:
>
> > That was what I was hoping for, a locking torque
> > converter.
> > If they are fairly tight, losses won't be too bad
> > if they have a low coupling speed in a non locking
> > type.
> > I'll see if I can find one at a reasonable price.
> > Regretfully I don't think belt type torque
> > converters can handle a series motor's torque.
> > Before too long the continuously variable ratio
> > transmissions from Honda, Saturn will be in the junk
> > yards, maybe they can be made to work.
> > Thanks,
> > jerry dycus
> >
> >
>
> Sorry I don't know much about automatics. What makes the converter out
> of an automatic transmission unsuitable?
Because it is tangled into the design of the rest of the automatic
transmission. It depends on the transmission for mounting, oil flow,
cooling, the one-way clutch, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> Just remember that 99% of consumer chargers are designed to be
>> cheap, cheap, and cheap. They have no interest or incentive to
>> make them work well. Most of these chargers will slowly murder
>> your batteries.
Joe Smalley wrote:
> I think a variac charger can Quickly murder your NiCd batteries.
Yes; very true. But then it's YOU that murdered your batteries, and not
some nameless charger manufacturer :-)
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
