EV Digest 4020
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Another BS battery?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Another BS battery?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Wish I Had One Of These When I Was A Kid!
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Another BS battery?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Wish I Had One Of These When I Was A Kid!
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Another BS battery?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: No HV cables on underside?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Need a charger recommendation
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Wish I Had One Of These When I Was A Kid!
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Wish I Had One Of These When I Was A Kid!
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: LED output(Luxeons)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Another BS battery?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) WICKED WATTS RACE RESCHEDULED
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Those amazing regs.
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) The point of diminishing returns?
by "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) EV parking/visibility scheme.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) was: U of W project/ porsche 912
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: LED output(Luxeons)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: The point of diminishing returns?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: No HV cables on underside?
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fw: Hybrid Cars
by Danny Ames <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: LED output
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: No HV cables on underside?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Another BS battery?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Suspension Coils
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Suspension Coils
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Suspension Coils
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Suspension Coils
by richard ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) project/ porsche 912 /next
by "Steve Clunn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just seen this on another list, haven't read
anything on their site, thought somebody here
would have more info or interest
http://www.pwtcbattery.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They claim "50-64% efficiency (compared to 12-15% for conventional
batteries)." Excuse me? Where do they get 12-15 percent???
d
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3773614271&category=12
Last time I looked it was up to $8100.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BS detector sure pegs. Todays batteries are >90% power wise efficient
(except some NiMh generating too much heat on charge).
Coulomb efficiency for many generic LiIOn batteries
is exactly 100%: If I put 67Ah in, I get *exactly* 67Ah out
ending up at the same SOC as before this cycle.
Victor
David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
They claim "50-64% efficiency (compared to 12-15% for conventional
batteries)." Excuse me? Where do they get 12-15 percent???
d
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
comes up a 55 pontiac convertable is that what you
ment
--- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3773614271&category=12
>
> Last time I looked it was up to $8100.
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden (Akron OH USA) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> They claim "50-64% efficiency (compared to 12-15% for conventional
> batteries)." Excuse me? Where do they get 12-15 percent???
They are talking about "positive active mass utilisation efficiency".
The research paper indicates that their cast reticulated open cell
current collector structures yielded PAM utilisation efficiencies of up
to 50% higher than typical book mould grids.
I'm not sure where the "50-64%" you refer to comes from. In the
research paper they indicate a PAM utilisation of 48% at the 3hr rate
and 29% at the 1hr rate. Their cycling test was performed at the 0.75hr
rate and yielded a PAM utilisation of 21%.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth and Joe, thanks for the information. Seth, your comments have really
caught my attention. I will be taking your advice and not driving the
200sx until I resolve these issues.
You say that HV cables should not be run on the underside of the
vehicle. I *do* have them running where the gas lines ran, protected from
a direct hit by running along side the frame rails. I didn't like putting
them there, but didn't think it was preferable to put them in the
passenger compartment. Since I am planning a re-route on the wires
anyways, should I run them through the passenger compartment
somehow? That seems like a bad idea to me, but how have others done this?
We run front-to-rear cables and wire under the car, inside a tube of
flexible PVC spa hose. This is normally used for plumbing hot tubs, and
can be found at sprinkler supply shops. It comes in various diameters, is
relatively flexible, and has a 1/4" thick wall that road hazards will NOT
pierce. If anything gets through this stuff, you've got a lot bigger
problems to worry about, because your car is probably totalled.
We run it along the previous exhaust path, secured to the chassis with hose
clamps and aluminum angle brackets pop-riveted to the chassis.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
I had gotten me a Schumacher 12 Amp charger from Wal-Mart for about $40.
It had a built in Voltmeter, a switch for different battery types, and
it had a shut-off functionality that stopped charging once the battery
reached a certain voltage. Not much of a brains though IMHO.
The volt meter could alternatively also show the battery state of charge
in percent (based on the voltage).
I used it for a while and it was fine to charge various batteries
and it worked reasonably well but ended up brining it back to the store:
If the batteries to be charged had only seen a little discharge (say 10-20%)
the charger wouldn't engage as it reported 100% SOC. But I am sure the
batteries were lower than that, e.g. on a 35Ah battery after about 5Ah
were taken out the charger would still show a 100% SOC and not engage.
Same happened if you interrupted the charge cycle (e.g. unplugged the
charger and plugged it back in) it would not continue charging as the
battery voltage was high enough for its shut-off point.
I didn't notice a difference in its behavior based on the setting of
the battery type switch it has (I think car/marine/AGM).
So, about a recommendation. I bought myself three Soneil/BatteryDefender
3A automatic 12V chargers for $34 or so. They work fine, are very
small and allow me to top off my batteries even if they were only slightly
discharged and then float them indefinitely. If I'd buy again I would buy
a larger model (they have a 12A now at soneil.com). Only drawback: If you
want a cut-off voltage different from the preset 14.7V (too high for gel
batteries) then you have to open the case and adjust a pot manually. I set
it to 14.1-14.3V for my batteries.
Hope this helps. I think the $34 BatteryDefender is one of the best for the
price you pay. I would love to learn about alternatives that may be even
better.
Markus
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Cover
> Sent: Dienstag, 11. Januar 2005 14:52
> To: EVList
> Subject: Need a charger recommendation
>
>
> Hi all,
> I need to buy a utility charger for around the garage. I
> don't need a pack charger, just one I can
> use to charge ICE batteries, deep cycle batts, and may be a
> little more flexibility built in. This
> is for playing and learning. And to replace my old and rusty
> Sears charger. After reading all your
> emails, I want more options than just a 2/10 amp switch.
>
> I'll probably never need to do more than charge an individual
> 12v battery with this charger, but I
> would like some ability to experiment with some of the
> different charging routines you guys are
> always chatting about. The first thing I want to do is charge
> enough batteries so I can set up my
> Curtis on the bench for testing. Can I do this with just a
> power supply?
>
> I haven't pick out a traction pack yet, but I do have 96
> volts of NiCads for some project. I'm
> thinking about AGMs for my pending project, but I just
> haven't made up my mind yet.
>
> Oh yeah, and I can't spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
>
> Would I be better served to buy a variac and build a charger?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave Cover
>
> PS. I did rip a nice transformer out of a 20+ year old Sears
> microwave. It's big and heavy and I
> hope I can use it for something. I'm defintely not going to
> build a Bad Boy though.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An ELECTRIC '56 Pontiac Junior Star Chief!
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"I'm figuring out what's good for me, but only by a process of elimination"
----- Original Message -----
From: "keith vansickle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Wish I Had One Of These When I Was A Kid!
comes up a 55 pontiac convertable is that what you
ment
--- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3773614271&category=12
Last time I looked it was up to $8100.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That is *very* close to what our childhood "Fire Chief" was. Except the
battery was in the back, the motor was geared to the wheels directly via
a differential. But the frame design, the seat layout and setup is the same.
Anyone know more about these?
Chris
Marvin Campbell wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3773614271&category=12
Last time I looked it was up to $8100.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and all
From a .pdf on the "5 watt" DS40 luxeon star:
at 700mA forward current forward voltage (min 5.43) typ 6.84 (max 8.31) -
(so the power consumtion would then be (min 3.801) typ 4.788 (max 5.817)
watts).
Typical Luminous Flux (lm) 120
If there is any real cpmparison to be made, it should also be noted that:
Total included angle 150 degrees
Viewing angle 120 degrees (half intensity)
where a light globe has to be considered as a point source, emitting 360
degrees. So either light source has to be assessed for suitability when it
is in a reflector/etc housing that suits the application.
My "3 watt" luxeon torch with its focusing lens - well, unscientifically -
'it rocks!' A great torch, but I would be concerned about the beam pattern
for driving. If someone were to make a focusing lens for the Luxeons that
provided a driving beam pattern, and put a bunch into a single housing to
get the necessary output, I think they would be a good thing. As good per
watt as HID? probably not at this stage.
I had the opportunity to view a comparison between a set of 35W HID driving
lights against a set of 100W high-quality halogens and found it hard to
pick the difference. 70 watts verses 200 watts, but $1000 australian (at
the time) verses around $250. No they were not selling many!
Just my $0.02
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
Just seen this on another list, haven't read
anything on their site, thought somebody here
would have more info or interest
http://www.pwtcbattery.com/
They say that the first gut impression is usually the most accurate one.
Everything about this "pwtcbattery" immediately pegged my BS meter.
The scam-o-meter was also fluctuating wildly.
These guys must have read the "Mo' Money Manual".
No guy by the name of Tilley mentioned though.
:^D
Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here we go again with these funky NEDRA race schedules
The NEDRA Wicked Watts Race scheduled for February 4-6 has been postponed.
The Las Vegas Speedway is working with us to reshedule the event and has come
up with the following dates to to chose from:
April 9th, Saturday in the morning
April 22, Saturday in the evening
May 7th, Saturday in the evening
Richard Furniss from the Las Vegas EAA and the NEDRA board will discuss which
date we will go with and let everyone know the new race date.
Sorry for the incovenience. Apparently, February 4-6 is a big NHRA race weekend
for the "Big Boys" and the cost to enter would be $100 to $250 for each vehicle
to race. Cost prohibitive for some of us.
Anyway, we will let you know the new date.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA Webmaster
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok it looks like Joe took care of you.
I just got back from Portland and have 6 chassis to load, and a night shift
to observe..
Yea you can remote them.. but you need bigger wire, and have to use the
Kelvin sense features.
NOT fun, But it works.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: Those amazing regs.
> Big question for you Rich:
>
> Will your regs work the same if they are located 15 feet from the
> battery, connected by 16 gauge wires and a fuse?
>
> How about 20 gauge? 10 gauge? Can they work if you share a wire between
> two batteries?
>
> That's going to be the big question for me: If a reg can work that way
> I'll cave and place an order for 50 in the spring. I'll hook them up to
> a distribution port on the front of my pack and stick em in a box under
> the hood. But the voltage drop over the wires and having 51 or 100 wires
> and relays is the key.
>
> That's what I hope to test on the E20 this winter.
>
> Chris
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On page 190 in the book "The New Electric Vechicles" (1996),
it says:
"The physics of electricity say that, when the current
(amps) doubles, the losses will be four times as great."
With that in mind, when converting a car using either an
Advanced DC 8" or 9" motor, and whichever Zilla is needed,
what would be the ideal or optimal pack voltage when using
either Orbitals or Optimas? How to decide on 144, 192, or
216 or any other number when space permits? Is there at
some pack voltage a point when adding more batteries to the
system isn't the same as it was up to that point?
Thanks for any info.
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just had a thought that where EV's get free parking there should be a sign
at the gate advertising the fact. Where there is charging or EV parking
available this fact should be advertised at the gate. The visibility of
these signs will raise EV awareness. Sound like a good idea? Maybe we
could fund the signs. (EAA)
..
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
> Sounds like that 912 is becoming a great car!
>
This is a project I'm doing with Paul who will be putting one of his fiber
glass kit cars on it http://paulsexotics.com/CGT.htm .
> Just curious what motivated you to use 2 motors and a tranny?
The car was already converted with one "8 and set up for golf cart batteries
. I have been sending him some of these John Wayland store's , . It was
easy to put another motor behind the first .
(More
> work and $$, but sounds like a good choice to me!)
Why not just use
> Otmar's hairball interface to decide when to switch the motors?
> you are looking to save some complexity and money, I'd vote for
> hooking them up in parallel -- you have gears for lower speeds, and
> can adjust the controller current limit to adjust max torque and
> power.
we are each waiting to see who will spend there money on the parts first, .
sombody needs to buy a charger for it right now ,
> The stock clutch will certainly slip unless you turn the current way
> down. Kennedy Engineering Products makes a nice pressure plate
> that'll hold 470 ft-lbs of torque with the stock disk, is 1/2 the
> weight, and about $350. I'm not sure how well the stock clutch pedal
> and mechanisms will take 3x the force.
>
sounds like more part's for Paul to buy :-) ,
> How did you arrange 22 orbitals? Are all at floor level?
there are 5 on either side of the motors , 4 or 5 accross the back above the
tranny/ first motor , the rest fit in the front , there's even room for
more. I think the parallel would probable be the fastes ,but series the
safest for the motor/controller.
>
> --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What if you have 2 8" 2k zilla but not all the contactors , would
> > you hook
> > them in series or parallel ?
> > The Porsche 912 has a working tranny with stock clutch and 22
> > orbital 's ,
> > for starters and to play it safe I'll use series and a light foot ,
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12 Jan 2005 at 14:03, James Massey wrote:
> at 700mA forward current forward voltage (min 5.43) typ 6.84 (max 8.31) -
> (so the power consumtion would then be (min 3.801) typ 4.788 (max 5.817)
> watts)
>
> Typical Luminous Flux (lm) 120
So, a typical efficacy of about 25 lumens per Watt. That's about what I
calculated the first time, and it's nowhere near HID efficacy. In fact it's
only
slightly better than a halogen headlight bulb on high beam (23 lumens per
Watt), and I'd guess that it costs a LOT more than the halogen.
There's probably some benefit inherent in the human eye's ability to see well
at the color temperatures produced by a white LED, but I'm not qualified to
evaluate how much. I'll also say that compared with earlier white LEDs, the
L/W numbers for these are much improved.
I hope they continue to improve them. They'll need quite a bit of
development if they're to replace tungsten halogen headlamps in a real world
EV. These LEDs just don't offer a dramatic improvement in efficiency over
low cost tungsten halogen lamps, and I have trouble seeing it as worthwhile
right now. The "coolness factor" is pretty high though. <g>
And I suppose some might say the same thing for EVs - asking how
dramatic an efficiency improvement they yield at what cost. Hmmm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> "The physics of electricity say that, when the current
> (amps) doubles, the losses will be four times as great."
Yes, usually the argument boils down to the equation P=I2R
> With that in mind, when converting a car using either an
> Advanced DC 8" or 9" motor, and whichever Zilla is needed,
> what would be the ideal or optimal pack voltage when using
> either Orbitals or Optimas? How to decide on 144, 192, or
> 216 or any other number when space permits? Is there at
> some pack voltage a point when adding more batteries to the
> system isn't the same as it was up to that point?
>
When the EVDL has covered this before, it basically boils down to getting the
highest voltage possible (and therefor lowest current) for a specific kw
output, but, yes, the batteries usually make up the first step in any design
calculation.
Deciding between Optimas and Orbitals appears to be a matter of personal
preference amoung a lot of listees, but then include Hawker/Odysseys and Deka
in the brand choice and add in real vs. stated performance, price and
shape/size and it's time to get out the scratch paper! Of course, you didn't
mention Victor's AC drives or TS and other li-ion cells, so it appears you are
concentrating on max (tire-burning) power levels with minimal losses.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: No HV cables on underside?
> Hi,
>
> Seth and Joe, thanks for the information. Seth, your comments have really
caught my attention.
Yes that was some important information ,
, should I run them through the passenger compartment somehow? That seems
like a bad idea to me, but how have others done this?
>
I've been using the gray pvc 3/4 pipe , run along where the gas lines were ,
> Thanks a ton,
>
> Ryan
>
>
> *********
> What you have done is the #1 cause of EV fires that I know of. Salt
> slush in Anderson connectors results in a short that doesn't pop ...
> Not that traction wires should ever run along the bottom of
> the car, they are asking to be compromised or severed.
>
> Crouse Hinds Cam-Lok makes the connector that should replace that
> Anderson. Not nearly as easy to use as an Anderson, but actually made
> for that environment.
>
> Good luck
>
> Seth
> *********
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Clap clap clap.
Nice venting Bob.
Did not mind at all hearing you out.
Keep it up.
Danny...
Bob Rice wrote:
>
> Hi EVerybody;
>
> Sent this note to the SF Chronicle, from the links in EV world. They, SF
> Chronicle asked for responses, so I did. Letya know if I get an answer.They
> would probably be surprised that somebody in CT would respond.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Rice
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:29 AM
> Subject: Hybrid Cars
>
> Hi ! Nice Folks at SF Chronicle;
>
> Da ja vue as some folks say! Seems that California can't try to clean up
> it's OWN air.
>
> Remember the CARB? Ca Air Resources Board? They tried and almost succeeded
> in getting Electric Cars into production. Like ONE percent of cars sold in Ca
> were to be electric. GM built the fine EV-1, Ford imported the Think Commuter
> car from Norway. In fact they EVEN bought the company. Many EV's were running
> around in CA, with their happy owners trying to buy out their leases. NO way
> would they actually SELL you an EV. I tried to buy the first EV-1 I drove,
> the GM guy laughed, said that they would NEVER sell the car outright. I said"
> I guess that you don't want anyone running around with only ONE moving part
> in your motor, thumbing your nose at EVery gas station, filling up at
> home?"He didn't SAY outright , only nodded in agreement.
>
> As we have the best Govt. Oil Money can buy, as well as the biggest
> CARtel in the World, wasn't long Big Money went to work changing, or pulling
> teeth from ANY Ca law that could rock the boat, even though it is the
> Titanic. With FOUR MORE YEARS staring us in the face, things aren't gunna
> change, at least for the better. Fuel Cells? Hah! We in the EV fraturnity
> call them Fool Cells, a thing to suck up Govt grants to " research" into
> making it work. Too many steps, none efficient to make them work, be easier
> and cheaper to just charge the advanced battery system of a Electric car. Oil
> companies have bought into battery research, to squelch any promising
> systems, as they own most of the photovoltaic panel outfits. God forbid! Free
> power, we're talking here. They haven't taxed sunlight or wind yet. But if
> this technology cought on.......Hell! they have a tax on electrics in Or,
> because they aren't using ang gas!! Hybrids, too, I think?
>
> Electrics have, by politics become the preserve of the backyard builders.
> I converted my old VW Rabbit to electric 5 years and 70 thousand miles ago.
> The Internet is our link to the world, Over a thousand folks from all walks
> of life subscribe to the Electric Vehicle Discussion List at SanJoseState U.
> in Ca. We share tech stuff, good friends and ideas, always ready to help
> "newbees" drive electric. Ca. leads the way, with many chapters of the
> Electric Auto Assoc. Right in SF you have several chapters.
>
> I'm in Connecticut, read your article on line, and took your challenge to
> write back. Small World! But we have to think that way. What with China
> looking for it's piece of the Oil pie, and other developing countries, we
> have nowhere to go but UP in prices and scarsity. Not to mention that all
> that oil, where EVER it comes from ,fouls our air, drains our national
> resources. BIG bux going overseas to folks that hate us. Speaking nationwide,
> as CT's air is as crappy as CA, we sit downwind from NY and NJ.
>
> Thanks for hearing me out.
>
> Bob Rice
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Personally, I more often find that the opposite is true. Yes, badly
adjusted halogen lamps will dazzle. But correctly adjusted ones are
no hazard whereas HID lights almost always appear to be on the edge of
blinding - painfully bright harsh light thats stops you seeing
anything else for several seconds if you catch the full beam.
It is true that HIDs tend to have very selective reflector design so
that the light goes where it is meant to. But what use is this on a
bend, or on a hilly road or any junction with grade separation? Or
when one car's lights are positioned above the eyeline of another
driver? The worse offender for this is the new style Range Rover,
their HID lights never fail to blind me when they pass, via my
mirrors.
So, what is the point of headlights that you can barely see when you
are outside their "field of vision", and are guaranteed to dazzle you
if you are inside it? Seems like two seperate and equally dangerous
safety hazards to me.
Back on topic, I would like to use a modest array of white LEDs as
additional "visibility" lights for my EV. As noted, they easily
approach the brightness of a halogen headlight whilst taking very
little power. Since I drive with my lights on all the time, this
should reduce the frequency of bulb failures and save a little bit of
power (especially if I forget to switch them off when parked, which
happens!). Of course I will keep the halogen lights for driving at
night!
Regards
Evan.
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 14:27:34 -0800, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> AFAIK, ability to direct the light so it does not blind
> others has little to do with brightness or lumens output the
> light source provide. Once in a while I see oncoming car with badly
> adjusted regular lights which blinds me, followed by Lexus or such
> with far more powerful HID lights (much brighter light spots *on the
> road* in front of him), which I barely see as I approach him from
> the opposite direction. The trick is the reflector design such that
> NO 9or minimal) light goes above certain height. Due to close
> proximity of deflector and focusing system to the light source
> (arc or fialment) absolute black and white separation is impossible
> due to defraction of the light ("bending" around obstacles, in this
> case, deflectors and chutters), but degree of this effect is
> greatly reduced in good designs.
>
> Victor
>
>
> Andre' Blanchard wrote:
> > Which brings us to the absolute most important characteristic of an auto
> > headlight.
> > It must not be blinding to other drivers. If your headlights are not
> > bright enough you can always slow down, if they are blinding other
> > drivers the only thing they can do involves a 12 gage and buckshot.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Andre' B.
> >
> >
> > At 02:05 PM 1/11/2005, you wrote:
> >
> > << snip >>
> >
> >> For very power efficient applications it is still hard to beat the HID.
> >> If instant restrike capability isn't a requirement (mandatory for cars,
> >> not necessarily so for scooters, etc) there is a wide variety of low
> >> wattage HIDs available. I have a tiny little 15 watt integrated
> >> reflector
> >> lamp and driver that is absolutely dazzling to look at and will light my
> >> whole shop to daylight brilliance. It takes about 30 sec to cool enough
> >> to restrike.
> >>
> >> John
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, cars run in harsher climates have vastly different requirements
from those in milder climates.
If it is secured well, encased in a conduit or similar and up high
enough so that you need to tear suspension parts off before you hit it
on a piece of debris, then that should be fine. Fuses and connectors
should not be down there. If you have to make a connection in an area
that isn't sealed from the elements, use a Cam-Lok.
IMO, a batterybox with a plastic liner, vented to the outside, with a
non-conductive, bolt down roof with the fuse inside and a pair of
external cam-loks for attachment is fine in the "interior" of the car.
Then run the wire either where I mentioned or in conduit down the
center of the car where is is very unlikely to get severed in even a
bad crash.
More than one professionaly manufacturer has had a major fire from open
connectors and salt/snow. One was just a few months ago. These lessons
were learned the hard way. When I see a car with an open frame of
flooded batteries 2 inches from a steel hood, I cringe and try to make
polite suggestions.
Seth
On Jan 12, 2005, at 1:49 AM, Steve Clunn wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 5:20 PM
Subject: No HV cables on underside?
Hi,
Seth and Joe, thanks for the information. Seth, your comments have
really
caught my attention.
Yes that was some important information ,
, should I run them through the passenger compartment somehow? That
seems
like a bad idea to me, but how have others done this?
I've been using the gray pvc 3/4 pipe , run along where the gas lines
were ,
Thanks a ton,
Ryan
*********
What you have done is the #1 cause of EV fires that I know of. Salt
slush in Anderson connectors results in a short that doesn't pop ...
Not that traction wires should ever run along the bottom of
the car, they are asking to be compromised or severed.
Crouse Hinds Cam-Lok makes the connector that should replace that
Anderson. Not nearly as easy to use as an Anderson, but actually made
for that environment.
Good luck
Seth
*********
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just an FYI- I received a spam mail saying this
company was going to go through the roof and now was
the time to invest. Seems as if somebody is looking
for alot of investment dollars to get started. I also
noted on the Website that no actual product was being
shown or being sold just what applications it could
fit into. Also I did not find actual specs, just alot
of dazzling claims.
Maybe I missed something.
--- Roy LeMeur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
> >Just seen this on another list, haven't read
> >anything on their site, thought somebody here
> >would have more info or interest
> >http://www.pwtcbattery.com/
>
> They say that the first gut impression is usually
> the most accurate one.
> Everything about this "pwtcbattery" immediately
> pegged my BS meter.
> The scam-o-meter was also fluctuating wildly.
> These guys must have read the "Mo' Money Manual".
> No guy by the name of Tilley mentioned though.
>
> :^D
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Roy LeMeur Olympia, WA
>
> My Electric Vehicle Pages:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
>
> Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
> http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
>
> EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
> http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
>
>
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have researched heavier springs for the New Beetle project, and found that
they will cost me $600 (ouch) to be manufactured. I also looked around for
other alternatives: putting air bag inside the coil, but I cannot find a
manufacturer who makes one for the New Beetle. The OEM springs handle
approx 440lbs (two back seat passengers and luggage). Now, with the rear
batteries, that will be increased to 660lbs. Any suggestions?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Don,
One thing is those "helper" devices, a chunk of rubber that winds in
between the coil. I'm sure you can get them in a suitable size for
most cars, and they do work but it might be a bit of a tacky solution!
The third way is probably just to scrounge about in a scrap yard and
find something that will fit from a heavier vehicle - perhaps other
modern VW stuff.
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:58:23 -0800, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have researched heavier springs for the New Beetle project, and found that
> they will cost me $600 (ouch) to be manufactured. I also looked around for
> other alternatives: putting air bag inside the coil, but I cannot find a
> manufacturer who makes one for the New Beetle. The OEM springs handle
> approx 440lbs (two back seat passengers and luggage). Now, with the rear
> batteries, that will be increased to 660lbs. Any suggestions?
>
> thanks
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 2005-01-12 at 06:58 -0800, Don Cameron wrote:
> I have researched heavier springs for the New Beetle project, and found that
> they will cost me $600 (ouch) to be manufactured. I also looked around for
> other alternatives: putting air bag inside the coil, but I cannot find a
> manufacturer who makes one for the New Beetle. The OEM springs handle
> approx 440lbs (two back seat passengers and luggage). Now, with the rear
> batteries, that will be increased to 660lbs. Any suggestions?
You will be hard pressed to upgrade the springs for less. Compared to
the rest of the conversion costs, the springs are a drop in the bucket
and well worth the money.
Air kits tend to run about $200 a pair. If you haven't already, call
Coil Spring Specialists in St. Mary's Kansas 785-437-2025. They
typically charge about $150 US per pair to wind new higher rate
springs.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what size i/d ?
what free length ?
what rate ?
i have a jumbo sized spring book in work and might be
able to find something
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Don,
> One thing is those "helper" devices, a chunk of
> rubber that winds in
> between the coil. I'm sure you can get them in a
> suitable size for
> most cars, and they do work but it might be a bit of
> a tacky solution!
> The third way is probably just to scrounge about in
> a scrap yard and
> find something that will fit from a heavier vehicle
> - perhaps other
> modern VW stuff.
>
> On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:58:23 -0800, Don Cameron
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have researched heavier springs for the New
> Beetle project, and found that
> > they will cost me $600 (ouch) to be manufactured.
> I also looked around for
> > other alternatives: putting air bag inside the
> coil, but I cannot find a
> > manufacturer who makes one for the New Beetle.
> The OEM springs handle
> > approx 440lbs (two back seat passengers and
> luggage). Now, with the rear
> > batteries, that will be increased to 660lbs. Any
> suggestions?
> >
> > thanks
> > Don
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> >
>
>
=====
Regards
Richard
___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Thanks for the info. Did I understand that right that the two motors
> are inline,
yes , coupled together with a lov joy coupler
and not one above the other? Seems there wouldn't be
> room, did you do something extraordinary to make them fit?
took off the back bumper , that;s where the last motor ends . Puels kit car
body will cover it .
Does it
> still have the VW tranny?
>
It has the porsche tranny which Paul says is a strong one , but not as
strong as a newer 911,
> Please announced on the list when you have a video of this one, I'd
> love to see it.
I'm getting a little behind with the video stuff , Things are starting to
happen for me , another person in my home town has asked me to convert a kit
car of a 1929 Mercedes Grazzel , . I wrote them up 4 different plans
ranging form a 1k 156 v zilla to a 2 motor 2k 300v . They are having me do a
one 9" motor , 1k 300v set up with orbital , not that there looking for
speed , but want a 30 mile range and not having to water batteries . " If it
will go 50 mph that's fine" , ahhh I can do that! :-) . I took them for a
ride in my pick up ,1k zilla 150v , and drove like a " normal person" .
They loved it. This is really a great time to be doing electric cars , more
and more people feel it the right thing to do , the new parts , zilla
controller , pfc charger's , excides orbital , have upped the fun factor , .
If you don't have a working EV , your missing out on a very exciting time ,
if you like talking to people and seeing them smile , I'll leave my hood
open when I go into a store , people walk by and do the double take , then
call there friends over " Ha , come look at this" .
Steve Clunn
>
> --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <>
> > Sent: Monday, January 10, 2005 3:24 PM
> > Subject: Re: U of W project, was Venturi Fetish
> >
> >
> > > Sounds like that 912 is becoming a great car!
> > >
> > This is a project I'm doing with Paul who will be putting one of
> > his fiber
> > glass kit cars on it http://paulsexotics.com/CGT.htm .
> >
> >
> > > Just curious what motivated you to use 2 motors and a tranny?
> >
> > The car was already converted with one "8 and set up for golf cart
> > batteries
> > . I have been sending him some of these John Wayland store's , .
> > It was
> > easy to put another motor behind the first .
> >
> > (More
> > > work and $$, but sounds like a good choice to me!)
> >
> >
> >
> > Why not just use
> > > Otmar's hairball interface to decide when to switch the motors?
> > > you are looking to save some complexity and money, I'd vote for
> > > hooking them up in parallel -- you have gears for lower speeds,
> > and
> > > can adjust the controller current limit to adjust max torque and
> > > power.
> >
> > we are each waiting to see who will spend there money on the parts
> > first, .
> > sombody needs to buy a charger for it right now ,
> >
> >
> >
> > > The stock clutch will certainly slip unless you turn the current
> > way
> > > down. Kennedy Engineering Products makes a nice pressure plate
> > > that'll hold 470 ft-lbs of torque with the stock disk, is 1/2 the
> > > weight, and about $350. I'm not sure how well the stock clutch
> > pedal
> > > and mechanisms will take 3x the force.
> > >
> > sounds like more part's for Paul to buy :-) ,
> >
> >
> > > How did you arrange 22 orbitals? Are all at floor level?
> >
> > there are 5 on either side of the motors , 4 or 5 accross the back
> > above the
> > tranny/ first motor , the rest fit in the front , there's even room
> > for
> > more. I think the parallel would probable be the fastes ,but series
> > the
> > safest for the motor/controller.
> >
> > >
> > > --- Steve Clunn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > What if you have 2 8" 2k zilla but not all the contactors ,
> > would
> > > > you hook
> > > > them in series or parallel ?
> > > > The Porsche 912 has a working tranny with stock clutch and 22
> > > > orbital 's ,
> > > > for starters and to play it safe I'll use series and a light
> > foot ,
> > >
> > >
> > > =====
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more.
> > > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
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