EV Digest 4114
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) engine weights
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Weighing stuff... Re: engine weights
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: engine weights
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Weighing stuff... Re: engine weights
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Weight and Balance (was Re: 12 v system battery question)
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) GM is moving the EV1s NOW
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Portable Drag Racing Setup
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: NEDRA Wattage Classes
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Siemens motors
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 12 V battery question
by "goodsharonwbird" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) BLDC system versus AC induction
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fwd: Re: 12 v system battery question
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 12 v system battery question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Weighing stuff... Re: engine weights
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Question for John Wayland - E-disconnect
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 42-volt starting batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: using a brush motor after long sitting
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On Feb 20, 2005, at 6:55 PM, Seth Allen wrote:
www.solectria.com sells DC-DCs in that range, although they are geared
more towards oem. I don't know if electro automotive carries them. You
are looking at more than $1/watt, I think for the Solectria parts. The
12V non battery charging work the best (most reliably) if you size
them correctly.
http://www.solectria.com/products/dcdcconv.html
Yup, apparently Electro Automotive does carry them, for rather more
than $1/watt.
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml#accessories
EA's site says that the non-battery-charging units are to be used
without an accessory battery, and the Solectrica site says that the
non-battery-charging units are NOT to be used to charge a 12v battery.
Why do you recommend the non-battery-charging units? I guess it's
academic for me since they're out of my price range, but I'm still
curious.
Seth
On Feb 20, 2005, at 7:03 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
http://www.vicr.com/documents/datasheets/ds_batmod.pdf
Didn't Lee Hart tell us that this was not a complete DC/DC, and that
there are a number of other components needed?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: 12 v system battery question
While we're on the subject, anyone know of a dc to dc
converter to use on a 156V setup? I've only found them
to 120V. If there is such a thing I'm sure you guys
would know. Thanks
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
I am also looking for a DC/DC converter for my 192v conversion and not
having much luck, except for the discontinued DCP DC/DC converter, so I
look forward to any responses to the Reverend's query.
Thanks,
Doug
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Uh are you saying the Lester has the capability to turn itself off? I
haven't noticed. I have been turning off the charger when it hits 1amp or
less. LR..............
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: High energy usage. Flooded batteries.
On 19 Feb 2005 at 23:55, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
At what temperature should one switch to
the winter setting?
The winter setting switches the charger on periodically to keep the
battery
warm. If you insulate your battery boxes, you don't need it. It also
overcharges the battery, so you're better off not using it at all.
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David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
1991 Solectria Force 144vac
1991 Ford Escort Green/EV 128vdc
1970 GE Elec-trak E15 36vdc
1974 Avco New Idea rider 36vdc
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
All we learn from history is history repeats.
-- Andrew Ratshin
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As for the price: You will find that Vicor DC-DCs cost about a buck a
watt or more when purchased in high quantity. And that Solectria DC-DC
is more than a Vicor in terms of parts (housing, heatsink, PCB,
engineering) and labor, overhead, etc.
I always *heard* that they functioned best as a standalone 12V. My
suspicion (and it is just that) is that there is not enough resistance
between the vicor and a battery to make life easy on the Vicor
regulator. But that is nothing but a hunch based on my recent battery
charging experiments with Gen I Vicor modules (not at Solectria).
Seth
On Feb 21, 2005, at 1:25 AM, Doug Weathers wrote:
On Feb 20, 2005, at 6:55 PM, Seth Allen wrote:
www.solectria.com sells DC-DCs in that range, although they are
geared more towards oem. I don't know if electro automotive carries
them. You are looking at more than $1/watt, I think for the Solectria
parts. The 12V non battery charging work the best (most reliably) if
you size them correctly.
http://www.solectria.com/products/dcdcconv.html
Yup, apparently Electro Automotive does carry them, for rather more
than $1/watt.
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/price-pts.shtml#accessories
EA's site says that the non-battery-charging units are to be used
without an accessory battery, and the Solectrica site says that the
non-battery-charging units are NOT to be used to charge a 12v battery.
Why do you recommend the non-battery-charging units? I guess it's
academic for me since they're out of my price range, but I'm still
curious.
Seth
On Feb 20, 2005, at 7:03 PM, Joe Smalley wrote:
http://www.vicr.com/documents/datasheets/ds_batmod.pdf
Didn't Lee Hart tell us that this was not a complete DC/DC, and that
there are a number of other components needed?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: 12 v system battery question
While we're on the subject, anyone know of a dc to dc
converter to use on a 156V setup? I've only found them
to 120V. If there is such a thing I'm sure you guys
would know. Thanks
Gadget
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
I am also looking for a DC/DC converter for my 192v conversion and not
having much luck, except for the discontinued DCP DC/DC converter, so
I look forward to any responses to the Reverend's query.
Thanks,
Doug
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html
It is an old list and incomplete but it looks like 300 lbs was a good
estimate
I have a complete z31 nissan motor from 1987 but I can't get it over to
the scale, I can say the tranny weighs 99lbs with oil.
one more thought:
Weight distribution is not static, it changes as you go up and down
hills, accelerate and decelerate and go around corners.
I am gonna buy some of those $300 scale sets that are 4 levers and 4
bathroom scales to check the balance.
like these
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4529001295&category=43998&sspagename=WDVW
The problem is you can't drive up on them so have to jack up each end
of vehicle, at that moment 1200lbs per corner may not be sufficient.
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--- Begin Message ---
Never thought about the taxes, of course, a writeoff is a lot more
beneficial than any sale hahahahah.
Right on the spot, also when you loose money, and a project goes bogus, you
can tinker with the figures, and increase the return as much as you llike,
can you imagine how much they will "write off" as: design costs, related
investments, plant modifications ec. ?
Ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: viernes, 18 de febrero de 2005 17:28
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
It is probably much cheaper for them to ignore the money invested.
Liability, future service issues, etc are all very expensive. It is probably
more cost effective to destroy them all and most likely take a tax write
off.
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 6:01 AM
Subject: RE: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
> The only reason I could think of for destroying the cars would be to
protect
> some revolutionary design or invention in them, but since that is not the
> case, and car makers are talking about cost efectiveness, why not sell
them
> and recover some of the money invested, it's something I just don't
> understand.
>
> Ivo.
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre
> de Mike Chancey
> Enviado el: viernes, 18 de febrero de 2005 9:46
> Para: [email protected]
> Asunto: Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif
>
> Michael Hurley wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
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--- Begin Message ---
A little fiat model 147 (Gas powered) I had did that, when you floored it,
it would jump sideways, always to the right, I discovered it had one short
axle (the right) on the transaxle, also the angle at which it worked was
different also the CV joint on the right side would last much less than the
left.
Ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Roger Stockton
Enviado el: viernes, 18 de febrero de 2005 18:11
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: RE: Side pull (Re: 42-volt...)
> I do not understand what length of the half shaft has to do
> with transmitting torque drom its one end to another.
Two things: the longer shaft may 'wrap up' (twist) more when torque is
applied; also the CV joints will operate at different angles on the
short shaft than on the long one (not sure how much effect this has, but
it is there).
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm a kinda low-tech guy... I'd try some strong rope first. Make up a
balance beam. Hang a suitable strong bar from a point part way along
it's length. (Hung from strong tree limbs or rafters?), lash some rope
around one axle/tire and hang it taut from the end of the bar closest
to the fulcrum (line that suspends the bar), then hang something of
known weight (100lbs of concrete? a couple of SLA 12v batts?) from the
beam somewhere near the other end of the beam, then slide weight and/or
fulcrum until the wheel just lifts off the ground.
It's easy math to calc the lever ratio and use as a multiplier for the
hung weight to calc vehicle weight at the wheel?
Plus, you can never have enough line hanging around, and <gasp> doesn't
need electrical or muscle power. Runs on gravity I guess.
Just my 2 cents
Could be done w/block and tackle and hand spring scale too, but blocks
would intro friction into equation.
Lock
on the hard and escootin`by the bay...
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am gonna buy some of those $300 scale sets that are 4 levers and 4
> bathroom scales to check the balance.
> like these
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4529001295&category=43998&sspagename=WDVW
> The problem is you can't drive up on them so have to jack up each
> end
> of vehicle, at that moment 1200lbs per corner may not be sufficient.
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks!
Now I got some hard data, instead of figures quoted by
Triumph enthusiasts. GT6 engine weighs 403 pounds according
to that site, so 470 pounds with ancillary components
included is not too far off the mark.
Kickass. This means about an 1150 pound glider weight! If I
have the room, I may try to stuff 25 Optimas in this thing
for some decent range, and with a Zilla 1k, Blue Meanie-like
performance.
The TZero I can afford, without the tacky kit car body.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can also do it with a large bucket, each liter of water weighs one
kilogram, so just make a balance beam, and start adding water to the bucket
or drum or whatever, one you balance it, the amount of liters you added is
the amount of kilos the thing weighs.
Ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Lock Hughes
Enviado el: lunes, 21 de febrero de 2005 12:05
Para: [email protected]
Asunto: Weighing stuff... Re: engine weights
I'm a kinda low-tech guy... I'd try some strong rope first. Make up a
balance beam. Hang a suitable strong bar from a point part way along
it's length. (Hung from strong tree limbs or rafters?), lash some rope
around one axle/tire and hang it taut from the end of the bar closest
to the fulcrum (line that suspends the bar), then hang something of
known weight (100lbs of concrete? a couple of SLA 12v batts?) from the
beam somewhere near the other end of the beam, then slide weight and/or
fulcrum until the wheel just lifts off the ground.
It's easy math to calc the lever ratio and use as a multiplier for the
hung weight to calc vehicle weight at the wheel?
Plus, you can never have enough line hanging around, and <gasp> doesn't
need electrical or muscle power. Runs on gravity I guess.
Just my 2 cents
Could be done w/block and tackle and hand spring scale too, but blocks
would intro friction into equation.
Lock
on the hard and escootin`by the bay...
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am gonna buy some of those $300 scale sets that are 4 levers and 4
> bathroom scales to check the balance.
> like these
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=452900129
5&category=43998&sspagename=WDVW
> The problem is you can't drive up on them so have to jack up each
> end
> of vehicle, at that moment 1200lbs per corner may not be sufficient.
______________________________________________________________________
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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--- Begin Message ---
On Sunday, February 20, 2005, at 07:23 PM, Mike Chancey wrote:
In your case I can't seem to understand how you're running out of
front axle capacity. How much weight do you have on the front axle
now?
That is what I was having a hard time wrapping my head around. The
pre-conversion weight from the truck stop scale (without me in it) was
2,080 lbs for the steer axle. (only 120 lbs below the axle rating). As
for right now, mid conversion, I don't know how much weight it has; and
I was hoping to not have to tow it to the scale or buy/rig something.
On Monday, February 21, 2005, at 05:56 AM, Jeff Shanab wrote:
http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html
It is an old list and incomplete but it looks like 300 lbs was a good
estimate
Thanks, google found me this list as well, and it is where I came my
estimate. I was hoping it weighted more so that if I use my plan to
replace ICE weight with batteries and motor weight, I had more weight
to play with up front.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:13:23 -0800, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > So how are your experiments in battery building going? Oh, you're NOT
> > building any batteries... why not?
>
> Because I (personally) don't need to. My talents are in other areas, so
> I spend my time where it can do the most good.
>
> But I *have* built batteries in the past. I could do it again if I so
> desired.
Hi Lee, I for one would like to hear about your battery building experience!
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've just been told that GM has begun moving the cars out of the
Burbank facility.
If you can make it down there, now is the time.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:49 PM 2/20/2005, you wrote:
EVTC disbanded many years ago. They would have sold off their assets. My
question is, why they don't just go to a local strip.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
Some possible reasons why they wouldn't go to a
dragstrip-
They already have a facility available for free.
"Free" often does not mean "less expensive."
The insurance, timing lights, ambulance crew, fire crew, PA
system, over-run sand pit, bathroom facilities, etc. all cost money and
take time and effort to set up. What about the training of the tech
inspection crew? Do you have legally-tested liability waivers prepared for
the competitors? Are the competitors and track crew covered? Does the track
have guard rails to separate the cars from the spectators?
Make arrangements to be part of a test and tune or other event at
an existing track. Rent the track for an afternoon if you can't fit into an
existing event.
You will find that insurance is the most difficult aspect. If you
hold the event at an existing track, insurance is not a problem. Otherwise,
it is impossible.
Use of a dragstrip would likely be cost prohibitive
and track management would likely see this new
area of competition as unknown, untested, and a
possible liability.
This is because of insurance concerns. The insurance company will
not even talk to you without a certified facility, a sanctioning body, and
safety rules. This is why we formed NEDRA, so we could race.
And... The most important part for the
sun-driven racers, the east-west orientation
of the track.
At noon, it won't matter much. :-)
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sub-dividing vehicles by voltage is similar to dividing them by engine
displacement. While not perfect, it is the best compromise.
We chose to sub-divide the vehicle classes by voltage for several reasons.
1) It is easy to inspect fairly. The type, weight, or size of the
batteries doesn't make the inspection more difficult.
2) It is easy for the competitors to understand and to comply with. The
standard always stays the same.
3) If you look at the records, with a few exceptions, the vehicle
performance scales quite well with voltage. the vehicles with the very
highest voltage are the quickest. This isn't just a coincidence. In a
nutshell, the voltage sub-division seems to work pretty well.
4) Other methods of sub-division have some merit, but all have more
problems and turn out to be less fair, overall, than voltage.
Other sub-classification methods that have been suggested and why they
were not chosen:
1) Battery weight. Battery weight is very important in races that involve
endurance, but does not have much bearing on the outcome of a drag race.
Cars with a ton of low-power batteries, like flooded lead-acid, perform
poorly on the drag strip. Conversely, cars with lightweight packs of
high-tech batteries do very well. Thus, some sort of consideration would
have to be made for different battery technologies. These considerations
would have to be changed constantly as battery technology advanced. The
technology considerations would be a full-time job and would fill a
separate rulebook. As the rules changed with advances in technology, how
would historical records be treated fairly? Battery weight sub-divisions
don't make any sense for drag racing.
2) Peak wattage. While good in theory, this doesn't lend itself to
practice. It's like the early attempts in racing to use "horsepower" as the
sub-divider. It was a mess and was dropped quickly by any organization that
attempted to use HP. The main difficulty is inspection. How does the
inspector know for a certainty what the actual HP of an engine is? There is
no simple test that one can do at the track in a couple of minutes. How
does an inspector know what the peak wattage of an EV is by simply looking
at it? Fuses and circuit breakers sound like they might work to limit
wattage, but they are too easy to secretly modify. Also, there is a great
deal of variability in the stock unmodified devices. Peak wattage it theory
is ideal, but is a can of worms in practice. Only the cheaters will win if
the inspection is not simple and foolproof.
You can see why voltage was chosen. Now that the choice has been made, and
seems to be working pretty well, change would almost certainly present more
unfairness than it might possibly correct. For example: How would "old"
records be compared to "new" records? There would have to be a very strong
argument against voltage sub-divisions and a very strong argument for
another method to make any change from the present system.
>>>> Someone always whines about the catagories <<<<<
No matter how you divide up the competition, some folks will whine about
the way you have done it. I have heard the same person whine that there
were too many categories while arguing for a new separate category that
would benefit their car.
Rich Rudman was whining recently that his front wheel drive car was at a
disadvantage to the rear wheel drive cars. Yes, it is true that, on the
drag strip, powerful front wheel drive cars do not get the traction that
rear wheel drive cars easily archive. This is exactly why I stopped drag
racing my Wabbit and built a completely different vehicle (the KillaCycle.)
I realized that I was "pushing on a rope" and built a rear wheel drive
vehicle. Rich needs to switch over to a rear wheel drive car if he wants to
be more competitive. Plenty of rear wheel drive gliders to be had for not
much money.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Electro Mavin co. has the following Siemens AC Induction Electric Vehicle
motors FOR SALE...
AC ELECTRIC MOTORS made by SIEMENS as used in the FORD ELECTRIC RANGERS
We do not have any Inverters or Controllers or Batteries.....just the above
mentioned motors only
This is the situation with these Ranger motors. Does anyone know if there
are off the shelf solutions for these? Is an adapter needed or will it bolt
right into a Ranger or a gear reduction Lawrence Rhodes.......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 20 Feb 2005 at 22:48, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> Uh are you saying the Lester has the capability to turn itself off? I
> haven't noticed. I have been turning off the charger when it hits 1amp or
> less.
It's probably a Lestronic or Lestronic II. They use a dv/dt algorithm, meaning
they shut off when the on-charge voltage increase levels off (or perhaps falls
a
bit). I think at one time Lester had a patent on that algorithm. It's a
pretty
good one for lead batteries.
Most Lesters come from the factory calibrated for golf car batteries. If
you're
running AGMs or gels, chances are that charger has too high a finish rate.
It'll ruin them in short order. It might be possible to modify the charge
controller to at least give them a fighting chance.
If you're running nicads, the algorithm is all wrong for them and I don't think
there's any way to make it right (short of a brain transplant). Rod Hower may
have some ideas though.
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David
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Guys, we have a Gp24 battery. and we put an 80 amp altbelt driven
off the rear shaft of the ADC motor. The alt is a one wire GM style.
It does just fine on the move, then sitting at a light,well it dosnt
turn, but the Battery has more than enough powere to keep the
fans,lights, radio,on for a few hours, Just the way we over camr the
DC/DC converter.The Alt cost us 45$ .over the cost of a DC/DC
converter
Thanks Sharon
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Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Except that for a rotary inverter you have the looses twice, once
> for the motor and then again for the alternator/generator.
This is true for a motor-generator (separate devices connected with a
shaft). But a true rotary converter has both sets of windings on the
same armature, and so about twice the efficiency.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Reverend Gadget wrote:
> While we're on the subject, anyone know of a dc to dc
> converter to use on a 156V setup? I've only found them
> to 120V. If there is such a thing I'm sure you guys
> would know. Thanks
A 156v pack is close enough to the peak of the 120v AC line (120 x 1.4 =
168vdc) that you can use a switching power supply. Just check to be sure
it has a bridge rectifier on its input (which works with DC), and not a
voltage doubler (which doesn't).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I think the Prius, Insight and Civic Hybrids use
Brushless DC motors (synchronous AC or permanent
magnet brushless). Since these motors are more
expensive to produce, why do all of the hybrids use
this type of motor? A well designed BLDC is more
efficient than an AC induction, but not by much. Do
these motor regen much better in this application?
This is the only simplistic reason I can come up with
to explain the added expense of this motor in a
hybrid.
If anybody has application notes or technical
descriptions via the interenet I would appreciate this
info.
Thanks,
Rod
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I was thinking about this one. The rotary I have (12v in, 450 volts out)
works great as long as you put the power into the 12v side and not the
450 side.
Reason being the field is driven off the 12v side (series motor) and the
field is used to generate the 450 volts as well. For this reason also
you can't just put a motor on the shaft, spin it, and get 12v and 450v out.
Chris
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Seth Allen wrote:
> As for the price: You will find that Vicor DC-DCs cost about a
> buck a watt or more when purchased in high quantity. And that
> Solectria DC-DC is more than a Vicor in terms of parts (housing,
> heatsink, PCB, engineering) and labor, overhead, etc.
Yes; the Vicor module is 90% of a DC/DC converter, but you still need
all those little "extra parts" if it is to work right. Basically, it
needs:
- noise filters
- fault protection (fuses, overtemp limiters, etc.)
- protection diodes (or your battery will discharge back into
the Vicor when off)
> I always *heard* that they functioned best as a standalone 12V.
> My suspicion (and it is just that) is that there is not enough
> resistance between the Vicor and a battery to make life easy on
> the Vicor regulator.
Correct. The standard Vicor modules are *NOT* battery chargers. They are
precision voltage regulated power supplies. You aren't taking proper
care of a battery by forcing a constant voltage across it. If there is
no voltage change across the battery, then there is never any
charge/discharge current. You don't need the battery at all in these
circumstances -- you might as well replace it with a big capacitor.
If you *do* have a battery, then you need a reasonable charging
algorithm for it. The voltage *has* to be allowed to rise and fall for
the battery to deliver any energy, and for it to properly recharge
afterwards.
Vicor makes special versions of their DC/DCs for battery charging; the
Batmods. They work well with batteries.
Or, you can add parts external to the standard Vicors to accomplish the
necessary functions. Basically, a series diode and fuse (with their
associated resistance0 are a good start. From there, you need to trim
the Vicor's voltage to steer it toward some charging algorithm.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Wouldn't the friction only cause an error when you were pulling on the
rope to raise the weight but not when you were holding still?
Mike G.
Lock Hughes wrote:
I'm a kinda low-tech guy... I'd try some strong rope first. Make up a
balance beam.
Could be done w/block and tackle and hand spring scale too, but blocks
would intro friction into equation.
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Hi John and all
Around a year ago you posted that you and Marko were working on an
emergency disconnect based around Andersen connectors.
What was the modification, and did you finish it?
If you finished it, how did it work out?
Thanks
James
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Thanks for all the tips ,everybody .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" >
Go to a motor shop and pick up some motor cleaning solution,
no real motor shops around my little town , I'll have to send off for this ,
.Buy taking out the batteries that are right along side the motor I was able
to get right to the brushes . 2 sets where in so tight they wouldn't come
out without a lot of pulling and wiggling ( the other 2 where also hard to
get and I don't think the spring was moving them) . got them all out and
lightly sanded the sides , looks like water marks on them . Blow everything
out , brushes sliding nice now , put it all back and hooked a 6v battery to
it and it took right off. Before I couldn't get it to spin on less that 36v
, no arcing , , looks good , .
the type which
is a dielectric type. I have clean all types of motors, while running in
place. You can even fill a cleaning tank with this cleaner and submerse
running motors in it.
I had some contact cleaner in a spray can that I got from radio shack , I
sprayed it on also ,
Steve Clunn
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:42 AM
Subject: Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
I agree, Steve - I just wish that I could get anyone interested enough to
pay me to do a conversion for them!!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
Keep advertising , Hold a EV rally somewhere , even if you are the only one
right now , Let your local paper know about the rally , . I have found that
most places are happy to let you use there parking lot for something like
this , .
Steve Clunn
Last Saturday in April Fort Pierces 7th EV rally.
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: EV1 vigil in Burbank, Calif.
> Sorry to be so down on the manufacturers, but they are clearly working
> hard
> against EVs. Too much risk for less money to be made; much better to
> direct
> the tide of public acceptance toward the more complex solutions that
will
> generate higher profit margins. Like hybrids and FCEVs
>
> I would *love* for someone to prove me wrong. I don't hold out much
hope.
>
> Chris
>
The way to do it is to get enough conversions on the road , at some point
the car manufacturers will do a flip flop , and there will be all
electrics
by them . I think this is the job at hand right now , get as many
conversion
out there with as many people driving them , . I think the "Fun factor"
is
what is needed , saving money , environment , and dependence on oil are
all
good , but , if we can sell EV's as fun and the next great auto hobby ect
,
that will be a step .
steve clunn
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Evan Tuer wrote:
>
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:13:23 -0800, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > > So how are your experiments in battery building going? Oh, you're NOT
> > > building any batteries... why not?
> >
> > Because I (personally) don't need to. My talents are in other areas, so
> > I spend my time where it can do the most good.
> >
> > But I *have* built batteries in the past. I could do it again if I so
> > desired.
>
> Hi Lee, I for one would like to hear about your battery building experience!
Well, let's see...
As a kid, I had one of those "umpteen-in-one" electronic kits to build
various simple 1- and 2-transistor radios. One of them was powered from
a lemon-battery; slice up a lemon, push a penny and a galvanized roofing
nail into each slice, and connect them all in series (penny, lemon,
nail, penny, lemon, nail... You get about half a volt per "cell", and a
few of them would run the radio.
I tore apart batteries to look inside. I recharged non-rechargeable
batteries to see what happened (they partially recharge, but also leak!)
I remember collecting dozens of dead 9v batteries, removing the good
cells, and stringing them all together to get 100+volts to run
neon-light "blinkies". One of them ran for many years!
We had various "yard toys" that used old car batteries for power. My
brother and I experimented a lot with car batteries, trying to repair
them and "bring the dead back to life". In those days (1950s-60s) it was
easy to dig the tar out of the top and pull out the individual cells,
look things over, and fix broken connections or knock out shorts -- so
you really *could* fix a battery. My brother was better at it than I was
-- he enjoyed the action (sparks, red hot wires, boiling acid, molten
lead, etc. :-)
We made some flat lead-acid batteries with just one + and - plate for
each cell, shoved into plastic bags for a case. These were used as
rechargeable batteries for model airplanes. They worked better at
delivering high currents for a few minutes than the nicads we could get
at the time.
In junior high, I built a biological fuel cell for a science fair
project. It generated about 0.5v/cell from biological waste (rotting
garbage :-)
After that, I mostly got lured away by ham radio and electronics.
After college, I worked for Eastman Kodak. As you might guess, they were
big on silver. They had been doing work for NASA on silver-cadmium
batteries. Silver is wonderful for energy density, but cycle life is
short because silver tends to grow "dendrites"; needle-like crystals
that puncture the separator and cause shorts. My project was to design a
charger that would "burn out" these shorts with high-current pulses,
much as people do to remove shorts from nicads.
Kodak designed a cell that had no separator between its plates; instead,
it used a pump to circulate electrolyte at high velocity between them.
This forced the dendrites to grow at an angle, not straight towards the
other plate, so you have a short distance electrically for low
resistance; but a long distance mechanically to reduce shorting. This
helped, but we still got shorts; thus the charger to "blow out" shorts.
These silvercells were interesting. They were built for research; to
make it easy to open up, examine the plates, replace as needed, and put
them back together. Each cell was about 0.5" thick x 16" square, in a
plastic case that opened like a clamshell. There was a centered silver
plate, and two stainless steel plates on each side of it. Plastic
spirals on each side forced electrolyte to go in one corner, spiral in
to the center, thru a hole to the other side, then spiral out, and exit
the opposite corner. The pump was magnetically coupled, and its
"suction" side pulled the sides of the case tightly together. They
delivered 30-60 amphours at 1.4v.
We found that sodium thiosulfate (photographic fixer) made a good
electrolyte. In fact, if you put *used* fixer in it (which contains
silver it removed from film), the cell removed the silver from it and
rejuvenated the fixer! So all our efforts went into perfecting this
process (Kodak wasn't interested in batteries). But that's another
story...
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Steve,
You can get electric motor cleaner and contact cleaner in fairly large cans
at your local Home Depot. It is in the electrical dept. Try to find someone
that has been in the dept for awhile to find it for you, usually only a
couple cans in the run and its often tucked away as its not a fast moving
item. CRC brand IIRC. David Chapman.
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