EV Digest 4226
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Chain & Sprockets question.
by "Brown, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Adapter Idea
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Intellectual property
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Project Solectria E-10 For Sale
by "Ralph Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Intellectual property
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) estuff on ebay
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Hardest part of the conversion
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) EV Efficiency
by Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Intellectual property
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Interesting electric vehicle statue in Arizona
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Intellectual property
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Dead link 10
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Intellectual property
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Adapter Ideas
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Dead link 10
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Slightly off topic but of interest to many.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EVLN(All-terrain Segway XT using Valence li-ion batteries @EVS21)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Dead link 10
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Dead link 10
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Adapter Ideas
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Intellectual property
by Robert MacDowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: RangerEVs coming available
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Intellectual property
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV Efficiency
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Texas to New York using just 12 batteries!
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Adapter Ideas
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
Here is place to get chain and sprockets as well as damn near anything
else you could think of to use building your EV project including
aluminum sheets and other raw materials. Prices are reasonable as
well...
http://www.mcmaster.com/
Look under the "Power Transmission" section for Chains and Sprockets.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lightning Ryan
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 10:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Chain & Sprockets question.
I'm looking at the sprockets and chains available at:
http://surpluscenter.com
It appears that the 50 Pitch sprockets will give me
the most options for choosing various gearing ratios.
- They have 10-30,34, and 40 teeth sprockets.
- These appear to be 7/8" bore with keyways, matching the e-tek?
http://surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?numrec=22&sort=1&search=Sprocket%2050P
%207/8
- I'm thinking of using 34:10,:11,:12,:13,:14,:15 for
- reduction ratios of 3.40, 3.09, 2.83, 2.62, etc to 1.
- I'de like to use the 40T for 4.00 and 3.64 to 1, but it
- may be to large for my application with an OD of ?8.3"
Anyway, My real question is will these sprockets and chains
be able to handle the power/torque of an e-tek motor?
http://surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-1163-50
L8r
Ryan
ps. Here are some electric clutches rated for 75 ft-lb,
would an e-tek break one of these? I realize they use belts...
http://surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?numrec=25&sort=1&search=Clutch
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The concept of integrated frive system is currently used by Siemens.
Here is the photo of their Epic system where inverter, motor and
mounts re all integrated in one unit:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/5134.jpg
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Electro Automotive wrote:
...
The "electric engine" concept, consisting of the electric motor,
adaptor, and controller mounted as one unit, was done by Stan Skokan in
the late '80s, using a Prestolite motor and a Skokan transistorized
speed controller.
...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The patent relates to the placement of Mosfets and
Freewheel diodes to minimize inductive loops.
I believe it was 2 Fet's, then one diode and repeat.
Zapi copied this pattern and was sued by Cursit.
Cursit won the lawsuit.
Rod
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I wonder, how it is possible to patent blindly
> obvious thing
> > (narrowing rear to improve aero)?
>
> Nobody says GM actually did patent such a thing,
> just that this is the
> sort of thing one might have to be wary of.
>
> As to how it is possible to patent blindly obvious
> things, well, that is
> one of the wonders of the US (and probably other)
> patent offices. ;^>
>
> For instance, Curtis has a patent on the concept of
> locating the FETs
> and diodes in a motor controller as close as
> possible to one another (I
> don't recall the exact patent, but it covers
> something like locating the
> diodes and FETs in pairs or some such).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't say there were pictures on the EVC webpage. Sorry about any
confusion. Its common practice for people to post their webpage after their
name, kind of a way for individuals to learn a little more about them, or
their cause, or whatever. In this case I think its important for whoever is
looking at this truck to know who they are buying it from. So... I listed
the Challenge web site after my name. I'm sorry that I led you to believe
there was more on the truck there.
The truck is in Raleigh, NC. Now is not the best time for me to be trying
to sell it, the Challenge is next weekend so I'm pretty busy but I need to
move it from the utility garage where it is now. I think I pretty well
described the condition. If you have any specific questions, let me know.
If I still have it after the EV Challenge I will definitely have some
digital pictures.
Cost. Keep in mind that the EV Challenge reaches tens of thousands of
individuals each year. Its totally run off donations and grants. We are not
backed by a large company or government agency. The truck sale represents
funds that are vitally needed to continue sharing and showing people the
message concerning the advantages of clean electric transportation. All
that being said, I have to search for top dollar. I figure the truck
running would be worth about $12,000. We've sold others for that to
individuals who wanted to support the program and get a neat truck at the
same time. Since it obviously needs some work, we'll start at $8,000. I
don't have a good place to store it now, so I pretty much have to sell it.
If you are interested, you should look at it. As I said above, after the
Challenge I'll be able to get some pictures. Till then keep in mind, its a
project truck. I know it needs a charger. Batteries, your guess is as good
as mine.
Hope this helps!
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Gordon Niessen
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Project Solectria E-10 For Sale
I could not find any photos or other information at this site. Do you have
any pictures of the condition of the vehicle? And what is the cost?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
The patent relates to the placement of Mosfets and
Freewheel diodes to minimize inductive loops.
I believe it was 2 Fet's, then one diode and repeat.
Zapi copied this pattern and was sued by Cursit.
Cursit won the lawsuit.
Rod
And who won at the end? Now Zapi knows how to make
better controllers for you and me, but is not
allowed to do it without paying Curtis. Great.
One thing you want recognition and credits for invention,
and another - to use patenting system just as a potential
source of income for own company, caring less for
customers.
I'm not saying Curtis was legally wrong.
I'm saying, now as a customer I have one less company
and product to choose from.
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have various items including Eteks, Alltrax controllers, scooters, and
even a LEMCO 130 motor for sale on ebay.
Username- cloudelectric
Here-
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZcloudelectric
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw Otmar's homemade adapter and it is simular to my design except both
motors are connected by chain and are on the other side of the adapter. With
my design the motors tuck up and over the axles. On a VW Bug this would
leave the motor bay open for battey racks. Has anyone used a design like
this? Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Electro Automotive" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: Hardest part of the conversion
Mike Brown & Shari Prange have on-road experience and
support VoltsRabbit/VoltsPorsche.
And many, many other models as well. Those are just the ones with pre-fab
kits.
Ken farms out
adapter plates to EVCC; not sure where Mike gets his
done.
EVCC has been out of business for quite some time now. We design all our
own adaptors and have them fabricated by a local machinist. We also
supply adaptors to KTA, now that EVCC is gone.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anybody know what the efficiency of an EV is with power generation
facility efficiency and transimission losses factored in? I know that
indeed alternative energy production exists, but that is only 1% of our
total electricity generating capacity and thus the chance that our power
is coming from a clean energy source is unlikely.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> For instance, Curtis has a patent on the concept of locating the
> FETs and diodes in a motor controller as close as possible to one
> another (I don't recall the exact patent, but it covers something
> like locating the diodes and FETs in pairs or some such).
You have to read the patent carefully to see what it actually said.
Generally, you read the "claims" which are the last section of a patent.
You have to read them like an eagle-eyed lawyer, treating every word as
vital and literal. A single misplaced word can make the patent worthless
because it is easily avoided.
Suppose Curtis said "two MOSFETs and one diode...". Then you are free to
use:
- two IGBTs and one diode
- one MOSFET and one diode
- one MOSFET and two diodes
- two MOSFETs and one synchronous rectifier MOSFET
etc.
Or, if Curtis tried to be more general and said "roughly equal numbers
of switching devices and rectifying devices, arranged in alternating
groups...", then you can invalidate their patent by showing an example
of a 1980 Russco controller with two bipolar transistors interleaved
with two stud rectifier diodes, demonstrating that Curtis was not the
first to use this idea.
My own guess is that Zapi accidentally or deliberately used exactly the
same idea that Curtis described in one of their patent claims, and
decided it was cheaper to pay Curtis some small royalty than to change
their controller design or fight in court to invalidate the Curtis
patent.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> "Electric personal assistive mobility device" means a self-balancing
>> two nontandem wheeled device with an electric propulsion system that
>> limits the maximum speed of the device to fifteen miles per hour or
>> less and that is designed to transport only one person.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> They mean an electrified wheelchair or self-propelled shoping
> carts for disabled people.
Surprisingly, no. At least in Minnesota, they specifically meant this
law to apply to the Segway, and the Segway only.
Electric wheelchairs and personal mobility scooters are still NOT
allowed. Amazingly, it is still illegal for grandma to drive her 3-wheel
scooter across the street to the supermarket, or for a disabled vet to
drive his electric wheelchair on the sidewalks in the park; but yuppies
on Segways can now drive them anywhere legally. The police tend to "look
the other way" and not enforce these laws; but let a kid try it with an
electric scooter and they will ticket him.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I wonder, how it is possible to patent blindly obvious thing
> (narrowing rear to improve aero)?
Because patent examiners are underpaid overworked bureaucrats who don't
have the time or training to recognize obvious ideas. People have
literally gotten patents on the wheelbarrow, because some examiner had
never seen one before and/or didn't read the application thoroughly
enough to recognize that was what was being claimed.
--
"I have invented a device that lets you see through walls. It's a
photon-powered rectilinear array of planar sheets of amorphous silicon
dioxide. Give me my patent. [patent granted.] Ok, I call it the
"window..."
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> I would have to disagree. My serial equipped E-Meter makes an audible
> high-pitched sound when operating, and the sound changes as the load on
> the E-Meter's internal supply changes (e.g. as the display flashes).
> The serial-equipped E-Meter here at work behaves the same.
>
> Both are perfectly functional, and both make an audible sound when
> operating. Admittedly, the sound is not glaringly loud, and it is
> high-pitched enough that some people may have difficulty hearing it.
>
> I agree with Lee otherwise; i.e. the processor should not get warm when
> operating, and this is usually a sign of a fried IC.
Either I'm deaf, or they changed something in the design. I have two,
and both are totally silent.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:40:02 -0800, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>> I wonder, how it is possible to patent blindly obvious thing
>> (narrowing rear to improve aero)?
>
>Because patent examiners are underpaid overworked bureaucrats who don't
>have the time or training to recognize obvious ideas. People have
>literally gotten patents on the wheelbarrow, because some examiner had
>never seen one before and/or didn't read the application thoroughly
>enough to recognize that was what was being claimed.
Even worse than that. I read a quote from the PTO superintendent
under the first clinton administration that said in so many words
"We'll issue on anything and let the courts sort it out". Two of the
worst I know of in the last 5 years are a patent on a common tree
swing (two ropes, a plank and a large tree) and chasing a cat around
with a laser pointer.
Another one I saw recently was a patent for a dolly wheel trailer
hitch designed to take some of the weight off the tow vehicle.
Exactly the same thing is on display at the Henry Ford Museum on
Charles Linburg's RV. A common production item in the 30s.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All
This discussion of adaptor plates/etc has brought up several ideas, some of
which have merit, some have brought up thoughts of my own.
First thought: Why make an adaptor that only suits one transmission and one
motor?
I don't know if C-face (the step on the front face of a motor) is the same
diameter for all motors, for example, do the 8" and 9" ADC and warfield
motors all use a common C-face diameter? If they are, it would be trivial
for a machine shop with CNC machines to put multiple sets of bolt holes so
as to bolt any of these motors to the plate. On the transmission side, it
would be possible for the machine shop to 'spot' (make a center-drill hole
part way through the plate) the transmission bolts for many of the most
common transmissions, and to vee a set of small concentric grooves to
facilitate finding transmission center for transmissions that are not on
the list.
This way 'major' suppliers of EV components can afford to carry some plates
and get volume discount for having batches made instead of single plates.
Thia would speed up delivery time for many customers (those using
compatible transmissions). I know that there are hundreds of transmissions,
but there are certain ones that are more common than others, eg the number
of Chevy S-10s that have been done.
Next thought, based in part on the first thought: To make an adaptor kit
more generic, where the vehicle is RWD, limit the transmission choices, but
supply an adaptor plate and use a tailshaft adaptor. So the kit fits the
commonest transmissions that suit, and if the vehicle doesn't use one of
those, put one of those in and have a tailshaft made (modify the existing
tailshaft) by a driveline company to suit.
Neither of these follow the way that I have gone, which was to have made a
new end for the motor, complete with bearing housing, and vent holes into
the clutch bell (blower inlets at the brushes). My motor as no internal
fan, and I can see that any future DC motor conversions that I do will have
the fan removed and a new motor end made. For less than half of the cost
that I have seen floated around for transmission plates, I have had a
complete new motor end made AND the aluminium flywheel that carries the
clutch friction plate (bolted in place, clutchless design).
I like the concept that someone floated, if I understand it correctly, of a
transmission adaptor that comes as two plates, one to match the
transmission, the other to the motor, with the flywheel bolt pattern
already on a carrier shaft. The only catch that I can see, is that it would
be very expensive.
Here is another idea, maybe a bit too 'out of the box', but how about
instead of making a plate from scratch, how about cutting the back end off
an engine block? I would expect that the casting would move too much for
this to be successful, but if someone has the machining equipment, it may
be doable (maybe an option for Rev Gadget to try).
My donor had the rear of the motor removeable, the front half of the bell
housing had the engine rear oil seal in it. It made it easy for the machine
shop to bolt up the part to the blank of the new motor end, dial in from
the oil seal to get it true, and machine away. I don't know how many
engines are made this way.
As to an 'open platform' EV conversion kit, I believe that we will NEVER be
able to come up with a suitable form to appeal to a large enough group to
make it viable. What I feel we need to do is to come up with commonality of
sub-assemblies, to get bulk manufacture of cables assemblies, battery
interconnects, transmission adaptors, contactor mounting frames, battery
monitoring sub-assemblies, etc. that would be able to fit with a wide
enough group to be doable.
Just simmering the ideas pot.
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Either I'm deaf, or they changed something in the design. I
> have two, and both are totally silent.
Odd; mine aren't particularly new units either (one is at least 5 years
old), and both are Cruising Equipment E-Meters, not Xantrex Link-10s.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
2.
MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING TO THIS "POLITE" BUSINESS
Auto industry agrees to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions in Canada
After years of halting negotiations, the auto industry has reached a
deal with the Canadian government to voluntarily reduce its
greenhouse-gas emissions by some 5.8 million tons by 2010. Canadian
Environment Minister Stephane Dion had previously threatened to
impose strict fuel-economy standards if the automakers didn't agree
to voluntary cuts. According to government sources, the automakers
insisted the deal be made in terms of total emission reductions
rather than fuel economy (though the end result will be the same);
they feared that explicitly agreeing to fuel-economy standards would
imperil their pending lawsuit against California, which recently
imposed strict standards. Enviros expressed the only sort of optimism
of which they are capable -- that is, guarded -- saying that the need
to make fuel-efficient vehicles for Europe, California, and now
Canada might finally push automakers to just make their entire fleets
more efficient. While government officials touted the happy, shiny,
voluntary compromisiness of it all, the Sierra Club's Dan Becker was
more blunt: "The Canadian government has managed to bludgeon the auto
industry into submission."
straight to the source: The Globe and Mail, Steven Chase and Greg
Keenan, 23 Mar 2005
<http://grist.org/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=4629>
straight to the source: The New York Times, Ian Austen, 24 Mar 2005
<http://grist.org/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=4630>
3.
I COULDA HAD A V-12
Automakers make SUV engines bigger, less efficient
Under heated criticism for making SUVs that are unsafe and grossly
fuel-inefficient, American automakers are responding the way any
responsible industry would: making their SUVs even less safe and less
fuel-efficient. General Motors, DaimlerChrysler, and Ford are all
cranking up horsepower in their SUV engines, in some cases to the
point that behemoths like the Jeep Grand Cherokee will go from 0 to
60 miles per hour in under five seconds, rivaling most sports cars.
Though concerns about high gas prices, dependence on foreign oil, and
global warming -- did we miss any? -- have heightened awareness of
fuel economy, 84 percent of large-SUV owners still rank horsepower as
an important vehicle attribute, compared to 45 percent who say the
same about pinko-commie fixations like fuel economy. Of course, with
their high centers of gravity and propensity to roll over in crashes,
SUVs "were never designed to be driven as sports cars," says David
Champion of Consumer Reports. So watch out!
straight to the source: The Wall Street Journal, Michelle Higgins, 24
Mar 2005 (access ain't free)
<http://grist.org/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=4627>
4.
HEARTH WARMING
Biofuel catching on in the home-heating arena
Using biofuel -- a mix of vegetable oil and diesel -- to power
vehicles is already popular in certain highly vocal circles, but
using biofuel to heat homes is just starting to catch on. A recent
surge has taken place largely in the U.S. Northeast, where there
remains a large concentration of houses that use heating oil.
Proponents tout the fact that biofuel produces far less soot and thus
requires less furnace cleaning, which we're told is a nasty business.
They are also motivated by a desire to support energy independence
and the domestic economy. "About 20 out of every 100 gallons of
bioheat goes to American farmers and producers instead of unstable
foreign countries," says biofuel user Charles Kleekamp. Though it
currently costs roughly 10 to 20 cents more per gallon than regular
heating fuel, mainly because of the paucity of manufacturing
facilities (Northeast biofuel is transported all the way from
Florida), enthusiasts hope that rising demand will drive down prices.
Already a biodiesel production facility is in the works for
Providence, R.I., for next year.
straight to the source: The Boston Globe, Jaci Conry, 24 Mar 2005
<http://grist.org/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=4628>
5.
BEHIND ENEMY LIVESTOCK
Ranchers, greens unite to fight oil and gas wells in West
Ranchers and environmentalists have traditionally gone together like
chocolate and, uh, people who really hate chocolate. But of late,
they have been overlooking past tussles to fight a common enemy:
increasingly ubiquitous oil and gas drilling in the Western U.S. The
ranchers say the drilling process often sickens or kills livestock,
which are hit by drilling trucks or drink pooled antifreeze or other
chemicals from contaminated disposal pits. Greens have been led on
guided tours of affected ranches to document contamination. A
coalition opposing drilling in New Mexico's San Juan Basin plans to
negotiate with drillers to clean up old messes in the area instead of
taking the matter to court, an approach favored by area ranchers.
"After all the smoke and mirrors go away, ranchers and
environmentalists have a common agenda -- and it is protection of the
land," said Mark Gordon, a Buffalo, Wyo., rancher.
straight to the source: The Wall Street Journal, Jim Carlton, 23 Mar
2005 (access ain't free)
<http://grist.org/cgi-bin/forward.pl?forward_id=4624>
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(All-terrain Segway XT using Valence li-ion batteries @EVS21)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
From: "Segway Media" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Segway LLC's New 2005 Products to be at EVS21
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:46:08 -0500
You are invited to experience Segway LLC's new 2005 products at
EVS21, April 2-6 in Monaco. Please stop by the Segway booth B145
to learn more and experience the Segway� Human Transporter (HT)
first-hand.
Please join us as we showcase the new Segway HT i180, Segway Golf
Transporter (GT) and Segway Cross-Terrain Transporter (XT).
Claude LeBlond, Segway LLC's vice president of international
business, will be at the show to speak with you about the company's
international expansion. In addition Doug Field, vice president of
design and engineering, will be available to talk to you about the
genesis of this new line and the technical aspects of the products.
The Segway HT i180 is the latest version of the flagship i Series
model and features updated styling with hot new colors. It is also
the first Segway HT to ship with new Saphion� lithium-ion batteries
that were developed in partnership with Valence Technologies, Inc.
and double the range up to 24 miles (39 km). The new batteries are
easier to maintain and can be operated at much lower temperatures -
all the way down to 14 degrees Fahrenheit (-10 C)
The Segway XT provides enhanced performance on a variety of terrain
with minimal environmental impact. It features all-terrain tires,
a
robust new fender design, new extended-range lithium-ion batteries
and specially tuned software.
The Segway GT is a new personal transporter configured to give golf
enthusiasts a new way to cruise the course. With extended-range
batteries, a golf bag carrier, enhanced traction tires, and a
special standby key, the Segway GT provides the golfer all the
tools needed
to experience the game in a fun, unique way.
For more information, please visit our Web site at www.segway.com.
High-resolution product photography is available at
www.segway.com/aboutus/photos.html.
We look forward to seeing you at the show.
If you have any questions, or would like to schedule an interview
please contact either Emanuele or Nicola.
Regards,
Nicola Dallatana
+ 39 3387 999448
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Emanuele Giunta
+ 39 3292 198277
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<<EVS Segway Press Release.doc>>
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________
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>> Either I'm deaf, or they changed something in the design. I
>> have two, and both are totally silent.
Roger Stockton wrote:
> Odd; mine aren't particularly new units either (one is at least 5 years
> old), and both are Cruising Equipment E-Meters, not Xantrex Link-10s.
Hrm... I'll have to stick a microphone on one and "listen" with a
'scope. Maybe it's switching at 20 KHz and I can't hear it any more.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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At 12:07 PM 24/03/05 -0800, Lee Hart wrote:
Sounds like toast, and unfixable. Perhaps they connected the 120vdc
*directly* to it, instead of with a prescaler and DC/DC converter.
He said he has a prescaler, I suspect he goofed on wiring it. Alternatively
he *didn't* say he had a DC/DC converter.
If the CPU is running at all, there would be some LEDs lit. There is no
*all off* mode.
The CPU chip normally runs cold. Power consumption at 12vdc is normally
25 ma (LEDs mostly off) to 150ma (all LEDs on in "test" mode"). It is
totally silent in all modes of operation.
OK, I'll have a look for the spec' on the CPU chip, if it has no
programmability (there is another plug-in IC) I may take a 'punt' and
replace the CPU and see what happens (as long as the device is not too
expensive).
Thanks
James
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I believe I have found a really easy way to to do the
motor adapter. I have found that I can get blanks for
making gears with a taperlok bushing centerhole. all
one has to do is machine to size and drill pressure
plate mounting holes. this means the builder has much
more leeway in the types of pressure plates to handle
the torque the only thing you need to adapt to the
transmission is the clutch disc with the proper
splines. I could produce these if there is a need for
them.
The adapter plate is now much simpler and the assembly
shorter since there is no flywheel to convert, nor any
extention needed on the motor housing. The adapter
plate can be made from a template of the bell housing.
I have found that on most transmissions that at least
some of the holes if not most are concentric to the
input shaft. If I transfer these holes to a pattern
with a centering punch. I can easily find the center
and work out a layout from there. I did this on my
spitfire conversion in a few hours time. I believe
that it will be simple innovations like these that
will make conversions affordable and simple. on my
next DC conversion, I plan on building a box to mount
on top of the motor to house the Zilla, contactors,
all high power wiring, and a small radiator with pump
for the Zilla. With the PFC charger on top. The major
connections can be made with copper bar to simplify
wiring with all the connections made inside the box.
With a modular system like this the bulk of the wiring
can be done on the bench where it is easier rather
than under the hood. the box could have a big
connector on the side to make connections to the donor
car for gauges and throttle and such. If there were
ever a problem one could simply yank the whole
assembly to be diagnosed and have the car back on the
road in less than an hour.
I have done some measurements and have found that
the whole assembly is about the size off a small 4
banger. I think a setup like this could really
simplify the conversion process.
more ideas to follow
Gadget, out.
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I wonder, how it is possible to patent blindly obvious thing
(narrowing rear to improve aero)?
Because patent examiners are underpaid overworked bureaucrats who don't
have the time or training to recognize obvious ideas.
Maybe they don't have the *authority* to make the legal ruling
that an idea is obvious.
Robert
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Marc Geller wrote:
> These RangerEVs, most if not all NiMH, will be sold for $1, but it
> will actually cost the purchaser approx $1000 to $2000, as there are
> costs involved in Ford preparing a car for sale as used. The cost will
> vary with work needed and transportation.
>
> The woman to call at Ford is Fran Pilotti.
> Her email address is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well, I got a response! And it looks like she sent the response to
a total of 87 other people aswell.
Curiousely, when she sent it out she didn't BCC (Blind Carbon Copy),
but instead simply sent it to everyone so I now have a list of people
interested in the EV Ranger, and they all also have my contact info..
(no biggie, lots of people do it) Anyway... Here's the response:
Pilotti, Frances (F.A.) wrote:
> Thank you for your interest in the purchase on an EV Ranger,
> your request has been received and documented.
>
> In the late 1990s, Ford Motor Company built about 1,500 Ranger
> compact pickup trucks powered by nickel metal hydride (NiMH)
> batteries. The NiMH vehicles got real world driving mileage
> of 65 to 85 miles on a single charge. The program was an
> experimental effort to gain knowledge about this particular
> form of alternative fuel transportation and vehicles were
> leased to consumers for a finite period of time, generally
> three years. Most of the vehicle leases have expired and
> there are less than 100 units still operating, mainly in
> California. Several lessees have expressed a desire to
> purchase the EV Rangers when their leases expire and in
> late January Ford Motor Company decided to sell the vehicles
> to those customers in question.
>
> Ford Motor Company recognizes that customers are passionate
> about this product and is working on terms and conditions
> for customers to purchase available vehicles. Ford Motor
> Company takes issues of customer satisfaction very seriously.
> We look forward to working with present, past and future EV
> Ranger customers.
Well, Ford just gained a few points in my book!
L8r
Ryan
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Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> You have to read the patent carefully to see what it actually
> said. Generally, you read the "claims" which are the last
> section of a patent. You have to read them like an eagle-eyed
> lawyer, treating every word as vital and literal. A single
> misplaced word can make the patent worthless because it is
> easily avoided.
I agree totally; I wasn't commenting on the defensibility or scope of
the Curtis patent, just providing an example of a patent issued on the
blatently obvious (i.e. arranging components to minimise stray
inductance/inductive loop area in a switching supply).
Cheers,
Roger.
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Hi Mike and All,
--- Mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anybody know what the efficiency of an EV is
> with power generation
> facility efficiency and transimission losses
> factored in? I know that
Generally about 20% but with new Combined cycle
plants now hitting 60% eff vs older ones 35-40% eff it
could be 30%. YMMV
Compared to an ICE which is about 10% eff for a low
powered diesel and 5% for a high powered V8.
A Prius hybrid about 12%. All from the base fuel.
> indeed alternative energy production exists, but
> that is only 1% of our
> total electricity generating capacity and thus the
> chance that our power
> is coming from a clean energy source is unlikely.
The depends on what you call alt energy. If you
consider hydro it goes up quite a bit, Wind is now
gaining ground, doubling every yr or so. Some would
call nukes clean, depends on your outlook.
Waste to energy, landfill, waste treatment plant
methane, biomass cofiring are gaining fast.
But even from coal, EV's are cleaner than ICE's.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
>
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Hi,
So I got an E-mail from some guy who visited my website. It started off
fine, but then just goes out there. Not only does he like the EV1, but
he has some theories you all might find interesting. ;-)
I may be wrong, but I think this last part of his e-mail should be a
nominee for the "wingnut-of-the-week" award. Though, I'm not sure it is
as good as the "Meet George Jetson" E-mail Roy LeMeur quoted here a few
days ago...
Some guy wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
But from here on out you might get up set with me at first but bear
with me , I've been around the block a few times. I saw reference to
some G.M. cars on your sight. They were scrapped as they well should
have been. They were obsolete junk. They were junk before they were ever
built. By now you probably have started studying Physics. If you haven't
you need to, so you will understand how we are making Electricity, What
the efficiency ratios are and is your car or the GM cars really saving
any fuel or cutting down on pollution. In both cases they are most
likely doing neither. They are using more energy than most gas driven
cars and creating as much pollution if not more. if your car was solar
powered that would be another story, but that is not the answer to your
dilemma .
Now I'm really going to challenge you and your Dad's thinking , I said
you need to study the laws of Physic and electricity, but at the same
time every thing you will be taught is not true even though it is taught
every day in the finest Universities. Our motors are built totally ass
backwards, they try to gain power with the use of amps, instead of
volts. We should be using mill. amp and thousands of volts.instead. If
your motors you are using were built right you could power your jeep
with a dozen AA batteries drive your jeep to N.Y. City and back and
still have charge in the batteries. The real power is in the mass of the
copper that your motor is made out of and not in the amount of amps you
are pushing through it. It goes back to the formula E=MCsq, You will
hear all kinds of smart people talk about it but very few actually
comprehend what it means.. Here is the name of one of the masters that
not only understands but has also built the motors. Joseph Newman find
him on the web easy. You will be enlightened. Then you can check out
A55 fuel. It is 55% water 45% petroleum will burn in normal combustion
engines with the same energy as regular petroleum. What they haven't
taught you this in school ? Hey good luck and the LORD be with you.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok so now if someone finds me a kiloVolt motor and Otmar builds me a new
Zilla 1K (1K being 1000 _Volts_), I'll be all set! I'd love to be able
to drive from Texas to New York on 12 AA batteries. :-)
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
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My traction motor end housings is made different than the common 8 or 9 inch
motors. It seems, that these motors do not come with a end plates that are
design to bolt up right to a transmission. Does not have a C-face.
If you order a TRACTION MOTOR from the companies like GE or Westinghouse, you
specified what type of end housing that will bolt up to a transmission.
My motor came with a endplate that is bolted directly to the motor housing,
which replaces a bell end of a motor. It than bolts up to transmission bell
housing which also came with the motor. The transmission bell housing is a
gigantic inforce stamp steel unit with extra 1/4 thick plates that are welded
and also 5/8 inch grade 8 bolts that are bolted every 2 inches, like for
racing units that are turning over 15000 RPM!
The bell housing adapter to bolts the transmission bell housing to the motor is
over 2.5 inches thick that encloses the flywheel, which is to keep it from
exploding out of its case.
These are the minimum standards they will provide for a traction motor for a EV
machine.
It is way lot easier to order a traction motor as a unit. You can even get
motor mounts that bolt directly to the motor housing that is like engine
mounts. My motor bolts to the same engine mounts as a GM 350 Cu.In. engine and
the transmission uses the same engine mounts.
I timed my installation of this motor unit into the 1977 El Camino. Started at
0800 AM and the installation was done at 0845 AM!
Twenty years later, I also timed my removing of this unit.
Again at 0800 AM, I remove the motor and transmission as a unit, broke it down,
replace two bearings with TRW motor bearings for $33.00 each. Resurface the
communtators, clean and reenamel the windings and had it ready to go back in by
10:45 AM.
I always tell ICE owners, try to do that with your engine.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: James Massey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2005 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: Adapter Ideas
Hi All
This discussion of adaptor plates/etc has brought up several ideas, some of
which have merit, some have brought up thoughts of my own.
First thought: Why make an adaptor that only suits one transmission and one
motor?
I don't know if C-face (the step on the front face of a motor) is the same
diameter for all motors, for example, do the 8" and 9" ADC and warfield
motors all use a common C-face diameter? If they are, it would be trivial
for a machine shop with CNC machines to put multiple sets of bolt holes so
as to bolt any of these motors to the plate. On the transmission side, it
would be possible for the machine shop to 'spot' (make a center-drill hole
part way through the plate) the transmission bolts for many of the most
common transmissions, and to vee a set of small concentric grooves to
facilitate finding transmission center for transmissions that are not on
the list.
This way 'major' suppliers of EV components can afford to carry some plates
and get volume discount for having batches made instead of single plates.
Thia would speed up delivery time for many customers (those using
compatible transmissions). I know that there are hundreds of transmissions,
but there are certain ones that are more common than others, eg the number
of Chevy S-10s that have been done.
Next thought, based in part on the first thought: To make an adaptor kit
more generic, where the vehicle is RWD, limit the transmission choices, but
supply an adaptor plate and use a tailshaft adaptor. So the kit fits the
commonest transmissions that suit, and if the vehicle doesn't use one of
those, put one of those in and have a tailshaft made (modify the existing
tailshaft) by a driveline company to suit.
Neither of these follow the way that I have gone, which was to have made a
new end for the motor, complete with bearing housing, and vent holes into
the clutch bell (blower inlets at the brushes). My motor as no internal
fan, and I can see that any future DC motor conversions that I do will have
the fan removed and a new motor end made. For less than half of the cost
that I have seen floated around for transmission plates, I have had a
complete new motor end made AND the aluminium flywheel that carries the
clutch friction plate (bolted in place, clutchless design).
I like the concept that someone floated, if I understand it correctly, of a
transmission adaptor that comes as two plates, one to match the
transmission, the other to the motor, with the flywheel bolt pattern
already on a carrier shaft. The only catch that I can see, is that it would
be very expensive.
Here is another idea, maybe a bit too 'out of the box', but how about
instead of making a plate from scratch, how about cutting the back end off
an engine block? I would expect that the casting would move too much for
this to be successful, but if someone has the machining equipment, it may
be doable (maybe an option for Rev Gadget to try).
My donor had the rear of the motor removeable, the front half of the bell
housing had the engine rear oil seal in it. It made it easy for the machine
shop to bolt up the part to the blank of the new motor end, dial in from
the oil seal to get it true, and machine away. I don't know how many
engines are made this way.
As to an 'open platform' EV conversion kit, I believe that we will NEVER be
able to come up with a suitable form to appeal to a large enough group to
make it viable. What I feel we need to do is to come up with commonality of
sub-assemblies, to get bulk manufacture of cables assemblies, battery
interconnects, transmission adaptors, contactor mounting frames, battery
monitoring sub-assemblies, etc. that would be able to fit with a wide
enough group to be doable.
Just simmering the ideas pot.
James.
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