EV Digest 4253
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: AC/DC motor questions
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: AC/DC motor questions
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Current limiting
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Measuring voltage with a capacitor
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Current limiting
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Garage sale find
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Front wheel drive question
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: E-Meter Blues
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Questions newcomers ask/ need to be asked
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Front wheel drive question
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Front wheel drive question
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: AC/DC motor questions
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Current limiting
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Front wheel drive question
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Unconventional Liquid Motor Cooling Ideas?
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) A new EV for me
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: How many Wh does your vehicle average?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Arcane autos and connector for 1221Curtis Regen model.
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Front wheel drive question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Living On Earth Story
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: E-Meter Blues
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Current limiting
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Unconventional Liquid Motor Cooling Ideas?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Using two chargers on Elec-Trak
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Current limiting
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) BLAM!
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Porshce 911 handling issues.
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:25 PM 3/04/05 -0500, Ryan Stotts wrote:
With the DC motors, they are "rated at" say 144 or 192 volts. But
there are cases of people giving them more voltage? The amps being
crammed into them seem extreme. "Controller bypass" for example.
What's the situation with the AC motors? Say for example you had one
wired up with a "Controller bypass". Is it going to take all the amps
you can give it, or will it only take so much?
AC motors, require.. um AC! Batteries deliver DC, so a converter is needed.
Have AC available, with enough amps, and you can overdrive an AC motor as
hard as you can overdrive a DC one.
Put DC on an AC motor, and you get an AC motor wanting to run at zero RPM...
Lots of DC amps into an AC motor = lots of WANT to run at zero RPM. get up
to speed, and then bypass an AC controller, get lots of stopping power.
enough information?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
> AC motors, require.. um AC! Batteries deliver DC, so a converter is needed.
Duh!! I feel really dumb right now... Some how earlier it didn't
occur to me about the bypass and the AC/DC difference..
> Have AC available, with enough amps, and you can overdrive an AC motor as
> hard as you can overdrive a DC one.
Will the AC motors take it though?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Question: Say I wanted to have a particular battery string in a series
string never put more that 30 amps into the equasion, no matter what the
draw.
What would be the best and/or simplest way to do this?
self resetting circuit breaker set at 30 amps?
magic box with a chopper or something like that to make pulsed DC
at 30 amps?
linear resistor of some sort?
The voltages in question are 300 volts. This thought experiment just
became a good bit more real. Basically I want to put an extra battery
pack in series with the main pack on the Prizm. The simplest way to do
this would be to wire the spare pack into the rear port that the
MagneCharger uses to go into the pack/charger. Problem is it's a
mid-sized chunk of wire (8-6 gauge if I recall correctly), running about
6 feet from the MC-battery port to the contactor interface and I don't
want the supplemental battery to overload this wire/burn it when I floor
the throttle (200amps/3=66amps per battery set). However when I let off
it can sit there and happily contribute it's 30 amps or so to the system
and give me more range.
Thanks!
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Question: Instead of using a D/A converter to measure something like
battery voltage for a computer, can one use RC time to do the measurment?
RC time is a Basic stamp trick. Basically they use it to measure an
analog potentiometer: You put a .1 uf capacitor in series with the pot,
then send a high voltage to said pot, then read the line for when
voltage drops below 1.4 volts. When voltage goes below 1.4, you measure
the time with your little counter and you know the digital
representation of the analog pot's resistance (and thus the position of it)
My thought is to use a RC circuit with a pair of digital relays to
switch the circuit to a 6 volt battery for a microsecond (to charge the
cap) then switch to the BS monitor pins across a resistor of known
value. My theory is the higher the voltage the longer it will take to
discharge the cap. Lower the voltage=less time to discharge.
Will this work? Is there a better way to read voltage accurately? For me
I don't need to know the voltage per se, what I want to know is if the
voltage is below a given setpoint.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Apr 2005 at 22:58, Christopher Zach wrote:
> Basically I want to put an extra battery
> pack in series with the main pack on the Prizm.
I don't think this will work. Most likely your inverter will not accept a
higher voltage than the current pack provides.
> However when I let off it can sit there
> and happily contribute it's 30 amps or so to the system and give me more
> range.
Additional current will not give you more range. It might give you faster
acceleration if your current battery is limited in the current it can
provide. But you have Hawkers, IIRC, which definitely don't need any help
in that department.
For more range, you need to provide more ENERGY (in the form of Watt-hours).
not more current.
It sounds like what you want to do is connect an additional pack of the same
voltage, preferably identical or similar to the one already in the car, in
PARALLEL with the current pack, not in series. This will effectively double
the number of Watt-hours available, and should nearly double your range.
It won't quite double the range because the extra battery mass will increase
energy use (esp. if you climb a lot of hills). Also, if you haul the aux
pack on a trailer, wind resistance will be greater and this will also reduce
the amount of extra range available.
However, a range extender trailer is a very viable way of making your car
more flexible and capable. If connected correctly it should work very well
for you.
This assumes you have a connection which can handle driving current. I
think you will do better with that instead of doing as you propose, using a
small gauge, low current connection. Hook up a 1/0 cable to each end of the
pack and bring it out to a nice big Anderson connector. Good idea to fuse
it appropriately too.
If you really want to use a low-current input for your aux pack, you will
have to provide some way to guarantee that current is always limited to the
level the connection can handle. The simplest and safest way I can think of
would be to use one of Rich's PFC chargers. But that adds a lot of $$ to
the scheme. Lee Hart or one of the other engineers here may have some
simpler and cheaper ideas.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got Pictrues? 3 batteries & 36v means a better hill climber. Could be
good. Got disc brakes? Chargers are cheap. Does it have a round 3 prong
connector? Looks like a mic jack. Which it is. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 3:22 PM
Subject: Garage sale find
I ran accross 2 electric scooters at a garage sale. the deck says "the
tank" e-scooter
They have a 350W 36 volt motor and a tiny black box inside that must be
the controller. Loks like I will need to find a charger.
They're are 3 12V 12ah batteries that are sealed and have a green plastic
plate covering access to the cells which look closed off with some kind of
sealer.
I couldn't pass them up at $5 each. Anyone know what they are? I know
nothing about scooters. I mean are they junk, good brand, gel-cells?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've never owned a front wheel drive car before.
With a rear wheel drive, because of the ring and pinion, the front of
the car lifts up on acceleration.
With a front wheel drive and the engine being sideways, it seems it
could either raise the front, or raise the rear of the car depending
on how they have it setup from the factory.
What is the situation with front wheel drive? Which end of the car
lifts up on take off? What's the deal with Honda motors turning the
opposite way from other motors?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My thoughts exactly, but I did not recall the items inside the prescaler
exact enough to make that comment.
I would worry about the new emeter blowing up when hooked to this prescaler.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: E-Meter Blues
> Don Cameron wrote:
> > I thought the same, however this is the same voltage that I had for my
> > other prescaler. The 70V is measured is open circuit voltage.
>
> It still sounds wrong. The 500v prescaler is a 10:1 voltage divider. You
> shouldn't see 70v on its output even when it is not connected to the
> E-meter.
>
> The prescaler also has (or had when I opened mine) a zener diode across
> its output, so even worst-case the voltage couldn't exceed about 50v
> (even if you put 1000 volts in).
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you have a glider available or are you shopping for one?
How much heater/defroster is required?
Do you need/desire Air Conditioning?
What is your accessory load?
How much current will you need at 14 volts?
Where do you plan to charge? What kind of outlets are at these locations.
Will the car be driven in the rain, snow, freezing weather?
Will the car be parked in a warm garage during freezing weather?
How many safety interlocks are desired/required?
How fast do you want/need to recharge?
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Questions newcomers ask/ need to be asked
> Hi all
>
> Every few months we have a new listee who wants to get into EVs arrive,
who
> we then take through the same process of "forget about DC vs AC for now"
> (or whatever their opening question was) and help them through the process
> of defining the vehicle from their needs and wants, then helping them
> select the hardware.
>
> We can define a set of questions that will help these people get started,
> wherever they come from. These questions will be in the order of "what is
> your daily travel requirement?" etc. They could cpoy the page, delete the
> N/A questions, answer the questions and post the answers in a single
> posting if that is what they need/want to do. We and they can then
> understand what their parameters will need to be, and a) save bandwidth
> over all the to-and-fro Q&A to do this and b) help them define their needs
> a lot quicker.
>
> This could be posted as a page from the photo album front page, to give
> them a 'close handy' resource to look at what can be done. I think that it
> is Mike Chancey who looks after the album, If he's happy to add this, then
> let's get a set of questions together.
>
> In addition I feel that there should be some pointers to the AC vs DC,
> sealed vs wet cells, auto vs manual vs no transmission, ICE hp vs AC vs DC
> hp & torque, and other comparisons in order to help them understand what
it
> is they are asking about.
>
> I know that there are a *stack* of things to consider, and at some point
> they will start to get away from the basics of what the vehicle needs to
> be, but when these start to be an issue, there are a few FAQ pages out
> there for different aspects. So I guess that's a third page.
>
> So here are a few questions to open with, let's get a list and get it
> posted somewhere with easy access.
>
> ===========
>
> What is your daily use (commute or errands)?
>
> If commute, what is the travel distance?
>
> If commute, is there power available for charging at the destination
> parking place?
>
> Is there power available for charging at the normal residence parking
place?
>
> If errand vehicle, what is a typical and maximum daily distance?
>
> If errand vehicle, how fast does it need to charge (time-wise)?
>
> How many people will the vehicle need to carry (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, more)?
>
> How many other people will be driving the vehicle (need to know what to do
> if things go wrong)?
>
> Who will be maintaining the vehicle (do you have the resources to maintain
> it once built)?
>
> What additional payload will be needed?
>
> How fast is it needed to go (around town, highway @ 70mph max, highway @
> 85mph max)?
>
> How fast do you want to accelerate (intend to race it)?
>
> How "sexy" do you want the car to be?
>
> =========
>
> OK, I'm sure there are a lot of others, and some of these will need to be
> re-worded so as to make sense to a newcomer. Since Chris Seeley has just
> joined us, I will ask him to comment on wether these make sense to someone
> who seems new to the world of EVs, and also for other peoples' questions.
>
> Over to the forum
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The front lifts exactly like a rear drive car. The back does not have the
'anti-squat" properties of a rear drive car, therefore the back goes down
more and the front goes up about the same.
If you want to see it in action, watch Goldie at the drag strip (not the
burnout box.)
For example, in http://www.oeva.org/events/woodburn2004/ note the launches
at about 01:40 on the video. Otmar's 914 squats in the back and John's White
Zombie does not whereas both of them rise in front about an inch. Goldie
squats in the back and rises in the front considerably more since it is on
softer springs and shocks. The blue car in the right lane rises in the front
but the back does not squat making it appear to be a rear drive car.
Hondas behave the same way because the axles turn the same direction and all
other cars. Axle torque makes the engine rock in the car, not the engine
rotation. If you accelerate hard in reverse, the front goes down and the
back goes up.
I hope this helps.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 9:50 PM
Subject: Front wheel drive question
> I've never owned a front wheel drive car before.
>
> With a rear wheel drive, because of the ring and pinion, the front of
> the car lifts up on acceleration.
>
> With a front wheel drive and the engine being sideways, it seems it
> could either raise the front, or raise the rear of the car depending
> on how they have it setup from the factory.
>
> What is the situation with front wheel drive? Which end of the car
> lifts up on take off? What's the deal with Honda motors turning the
> opposite way from other motors?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Joe Smalley wrote:
> The front lifts exactly like a rear drive car.
It just seems like there would be such a way the motor/transmission
could be arranged to attempt to lift the back of the car?
I guess the "problem" is that the differential that is built into the
transmission in a fwd is behind the motor. When the pinion twists on
the ring gear.. It lifts the front just like a rwd.
Maybe if they would put the transmission in front of the motor, it
would try and lift the back?
http://www.drivetrain.com/gm4t80e/4t80e.jpg
I think it would?
It seems like in a Porsche with the transmission in front of the
motor, depending on which side of the pinion the ring gear was placed,
you could get it to try and raise the back of the car? Might have to
change the rotation of the motor..
There must be a way to do it?
Imagine in a rwd vehicle if the drive shaft ran back past the rear
axle into a transfer case and then with the differential flipped over,
powered it from behind. Would it then attempt to try and raise the
rear of the car?
What I'm getting at is with fwd, the last thing anyone wants is the
front end flying up in the air on take off. With the transmission in
front of the motor, it would attempt to lift the back of the car and
be like a reverse wheelie..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:16 AM 4/04/05 -0500, you wrote:
James Massey wrote:
> AC motors, require.. um AC! Batteries deliver DC, so a converter is needed.
Duh!! I feel really dumb right now... Some how earlier it didn't
occur to me about the bypass and the AC/DC difference..
> Have AC available, with enough amps, and you can overdrive an AC motor as
> hard as you can overdrive a DC one.
Will the AC motors take it though?
As long as you stay below the fusing current of the wire, and keep the heat
down below the wire enameling compromise point, without over-driving the
rotor to the point of melting it, yes.
Direct-on-line starters do this to motors every day (hence the big start-up
surge).
Lee Hart has commented in the past about AC motors and high drive powers
(currents).
James.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:58 PM 3/04/05 -0400, you wrote:
Question: Say I wanted to have a particular battery string in a series
string never put more that 30 amps into the equasion, no matter what the draw.
Thanks!
Chris
Hi Chris
Could you clarify, I think you mean in paralell? Extender pack of (lithium
or whatever) delivers 30A, main pack delivers the balance?
Something like a 330V pack of lithium, 30A charging a 300V string of lead-acid?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan,
The reaction of the car to the torque of the drive wheels has nothing to
do with the location of the transmission and differential with respect
to the motor, nor anything to do with the direction that the motor
spins.
It's all about action and reaction.
The wheels spin forward, the car rocks backward (front goes up, back
goes down).
The only way to make the reaction forces lift the back of the car is to
make the wheels spin backwards - ie reverse.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Stotts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 4 April 2005 6:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Front wheel drive question
Joe Smalley wrote:
> The front lifts exactly like a rear drive car.
It just seems like there would be such a way the motor/transmission
could be arranged to attempt to lift the back of the car?
I guess the "problem" is that the differential that is built into the
transmission in a fwd is behind the motor. When the pinion twists on
the ring gear.. It lifts the front just like a rwd.
Maybe if they would put the transmission in front of the motor, it
would try and lift the back?
http://www.drivetrain.com/gm4t80e/4t80e.jpg
I think it would?
It seems like in a Porsche with the transmission in front of the
motor, depending on which side of the pinion the ring gear was placed,
you could get it to try and raise the back of the car? Might have to
change the rotation of the motor..
There must be a way to do it?
Imagine in a rwd vehicle if the drive shaft ran back past the rear
axle into a transfer case and then with the differential flipped over,
powered it from behind. Would it then attempt to try and raise the
rear of the car?
What I'm getting at is with fwd, the last thing anyone wants is the
front end flying up in the air on take off. With the transmission in
front of the motor, it would attempt to lift the back of the car and
be like a reverse wheelie..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for everyone's comments...
Again, with the E-Tek in mind....
I guess what I'm looking for is something a little more
"exotic" than simple forced air, or no cooling at all..
With simple cooling I'll be limiting current to arround 100A.
I'll have to be carefull not to overheat my motor(s) and
so will bump up the current in small steps, kinna spooked.
I'll have enough hardware for 300A per motor, which they
should be able to handle, IF I can keep them cool enough.
The obvious answer is forced air cooling, but even then
I'm hesitent to crank up the amps to full power.
In my mind I'm thinking that when it comes time to turn up
the power I'de really like to have some pre-cooled motors.
It could even be a "special occasion" system used only for
the 1/4 mile and such, just for short bursts at peak power.
Is pre-cooling even worthwile? Say it's an 80 degree day,
If I don't want the motors to exceed say, 140 degrees then
I've only got 60 degrees of acceptable rise. But If I
can pre-cool the motors to 30 degrees, then I've added an
additional 50 degrees of overhead. Even better if I can
take them lower, at -30 degrees I'll have 170 degrees of
temp rise till they start to overheat. Is this worthwile?
.oO( Anyone know what a safe Max temp is for the E-Tek? )
I'm hoping that I'll be able to drive "normally" at much
lower power levels that wouldn't require more than forced air.
I also don't want to carry arround the extra weight of an
overly complex fluid cooling and heat exchanging system.
So, perhaps I can just pick up a tank of Helium, CO2, Dry Ice
or some such on the way to the track for that extra edge?
Perhaps the simplest sollution would be to pack a few bags
of ice arround the motors and let them "soak up" the cold.
One might also keep some sodas back there, call it a "cooler".
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I collected my Citroen Berlingo van on Saturday, a gruelling
1000 mile round trip..
When I got to the garage where it was being stored, I was told
that it wasn't ready and wouldn't start, so I could look at it but not
take it! Not good so far. However, the mechanic showed up soon
afterwards and put 5 minutes of charge into it before dissapearing
again. The owner wasn't present and I decided I'd better just take
it. The energy gauge was on '0' and there were various flashing
lights all over the dash as I tried to get it maneuvered in the
confines of the dealership carpark, ready to load onto the trailer. I
got it to the top of the ramp where it stalled and I had to roll back
off again. I then sweated to winch it on by hand and tie it down
whilst garage employees stood around and implied that I was
getting in their way!
Back at home, after pushing it off the ramp I hooked it up and spent a
puzzled few minutes wondering why it wasn't doing anything.. until I
closed the charger connection door. After a couple of hours the Nicad
batteries had accrued 40% charge and I had a little drive up the lane
and around my yard. Very impressed so far, it's powerful, much faster
than my other EV and the regen is superb and controllable, I think I'll
be able to make my commute without touching the brakes at all.
Of course I've yet to see what the range is like but the first course of
action will be to pump the tyres up to the maximum pressure, since
they are all soft.
I will take some photos and post some technical details on a website,
as soon as I've figured out what the details are. So far I've spotted
a 12V electro-hydraulic steering pump (yes, it's noisy!), a petrol
powered Webasto heater and a large watercooled box with the
controller, charger, DC-DC converter and control computer hidden
inside. There are 3 seperate boxes containing the NiCad batteries
which are also water cooled. The mains connection is an easy to use
paddle type affair, possibly Avcon.
There's also a mystery relay in a box that's obviously been added
since the car came from the factory, and a gadget loose in the dash
with an LCD and 3 buttons, which I'm hoping is some sort of diagnostic
or programming device for the van.
I hope to get it MOT'd and insured and on the road this week.
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > What about when you have to swerve to avoid a
> little kid? Even though
> > it is a rare event, I'd never assume you'll never
> need to do an
> > emergency maneuver.
>
> I guess I could built it with 1000 lbs of batteries
> in the trunk and
> take it to an empty parking lot and see how well it
> does donuts and
> test it's swerve ability. Do some sharp turns and
> see if the rear
> swings out. If it's unsatisfactory, I could move
> half or all the bats
> to the front...
The best way is to see what the original weight
bias is in the car before conversion and try to keep
it the same or as others have said, it will be
dangerous.
To put them all in the trunk of a front wheel
drive or big front engined car is very dangerous.
So from the beginning, design it for a good number
of the batts in the front.
Porsches have very light engines, forward seating
and other weights up front to let them get away with a
rear engine.
The Lamborgini's have midship engines and have
almost perfect weight balance of 50-50.
Not to mention the problems supporting 1,000 lbs
in one place of batts on a car that is not designed
for it.
>
> It seems like someone on this list mentioned that it
> was best to keep
> the batteries together though?
>
That was probably me but handling comes first as
a dangerous EV isn't a good thing. And you will not be
fast if al the batts are in the rear as your front end
will come of the ground and drag the rear if you do.
Batts are best if together for thermal reasons as
the charge, discharge properties change at different
temps so best if they are al the same temp. Good
thermal management, insulation, batt heating pads for
under 60F is important to keep from losing range in
colder times.
If you want to still do this a pickup may be a
better solution for you. The older 80's ones are
small, low frontal area and light enough to make great
EV's and hold that weight stock if Japanese and with
helper springs if US.
If you can do 2 seats, a MR2 and Karman Ghia can
be good choices that don't need so many batts and can
be put forward in their engine compartments, ect for
balanced as designed and have been very fast.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Show us what our next emoticon should look like. Join the fun.
http://www.advision.webevents.yahoo.com/emoticontest
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Apr 2, 2005 11:47 PM, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I promised I'd help Lou find a connector for a Curtis 1221 Regen model. It
> has a special Molex(r) 10 pin connector.
Regen model? Are you sure? My Curtis 1221B-7401 had this connector,
it was for the reversing control board.
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 4/4/2005 2:32:30 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< The only way to make the reaction forces lift the back of the car is to
make the wheels spin backwards - ie reverse.
>>
My old Road Runner had a pinion snubber which lifted the rear of the car on
acceleration. On cars with control arms and coil springs, a link between the
diff nose and the upper control arm will lift the rear. (We used to call these
no-hop bars, not sure of the technical term)
It can definitely be done.
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This past weekend "Living on Earth" aired an interview with James Woolsey
and Robert McFarlane, who are two signatories on a letter to President Bush
about oil and national security. One of the paths they are recommending is
plug-in hybrids. Text of the article can be found at:
http://www.loe.org/ETS/organizations.php3?action=printContentItem&orgid=33&t
ypeID=19&itemID=251#feature4
mp3 version is also available at http://www.loe.org
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, but what is confusing is that 2 different prescalers measure this same
voltage when connected to this pack.
In any regards, I will find out when I call Xantrex technical support.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Smalley
Sent: April 3, 2005 11:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: E-Meter Blues
My thoughts exactly, but I did not recall the items inside the prescaler
exact enough to make that comment.
I would worry about the new emeter blowing up when hooked to this prescaler.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: E-Meter Blues
> Don Cameron wrote:
> > I thought the same, however this is the same voltage that I had for my
> > other prescaler. The 70V is measured is open circuit voltage.
>
> It still sounds wrong. The 500v prescaler is a 10:1 voltage divider. You
> shouldn't see 70v on its output even when it is not connected to the
> E-meter.
>
> The prescaler also has (or had when I opened mine) a zener diode across
> its output, so even worst-case the voltage couldn't exceed about 50v
> (even if you put 1000 volts in).
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Could you clarify, I think you mean in paralell? Extender pack of
> (lithium or whatever) delivers 30A, main pack delivers the balance?
Darn, yes. Parallel with the current pack, not in series with the
current pack. Thank you for pointing this out James; I must have been
asleep last night when I typed that.
> Something like a 330V pack of lithium, 30A charging a 300V string of
> lead-acid?
More like a 300 volt (26ah) pack of lead acid, in parallel with the 300V
of lead acid in the car (52ah). Or a 300 volt pack of NiMH Prismatics in
parallel with the main pack. And yes, they will be charged seperately
and run with a blocking diode between them.
The key is that the outboard pack can't contribute more than 30 or so
amps at any time. Otherwise that 6 gauge wire might overload.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All;
Had to get my two watts worth on the Cooling thread. We'll scare the
newbees away with this one. The great joy with " normal" EV's is that you
DON'T need all the cooling crap that a ICE needs. I drive 26 miles to work,
on the Turnpike, and EVerything is just pleasently warm to stone cold.
Rapter is COLD! Motor warm to the touch, if any of my batterey connectrers
are warm, hot, I take repair measures! I had one terminal to terminal
connecter that ran too hot to touch HOT. Looked like the rest; soldered
welding cable into the good cast connecters. Resoldered EVerything, THAT
took care of it. Like a crappy crimp connection, was losing it somewhere.
Of course battery heat issues are another cheep and dirty way to find a
dying cell. If it is HOT or at least one cell is running hot, you have
shorting issues, they are reversing before the others. I junked one battery,
I'm running a 114 volt car now, faster and further than before as the
stinker was a Trojan Teakettle, boiling from the 30 volt voltage drop, and
reversal!
My t 105 pack is aging, and I'm weeding out the weak ones, as for me the
EV season has begun again, a few hundred miles in the last week. The Pruis
is getting a break!
Botton line, in a Lead Acid car, like most of us build, gotta be
reassonably efficient that it DOESN'T need great efforts to cool. That in
motor fan seens good enough.the heatsinks on the controller are enough, etc.
If ya need miles of cooling plumbing exhotic cooling Stuff, HMMM?
Something wrong here?Scale the motor up so it can do the job IMHO!
Seeya
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Unconventional Liquid Motor Cooling Ideas?
> > But would it be possible to find a non-conductive liquid that could
> > be allowed to run throught a live DC motor? How about anti-freeze?
> > Is voltage a factor? Might work better at lower voltage, like 48vdc.
>
> How about water? Realatively speaking, even contaminate it's not that
> conductive. No where near as conductive as say...copper for example.
>
> > In particular, I'm thinking that one could place an E-Tek inside a
> > sealed housing filled with a liquid which would in-and-of-itself
> > have much more heat obsorbsion capacity or thermal mass. Sure there
> > would be more loss due to the rotor moving through a heavier fluid,
>
> Yeah, a LOT more loss. Not to mention problems with cavitation which will
> cause even more loss and probably some damage.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an Elec-Trak I-5 that I use to mow my lawn. The lawn is VERY
large (about 2.5 acres) and VERY thick and as such the E-T can just
barely mow it on one charge, and then only if I mow about 1/2 of it in
LL.
In an effort to make my batteries last longer, I generally mow the back
yard (about 3/4 of an acre) and put the tractor on to charge for an hour
or so then mow the front.
I hear lots of you talking about using more than one charger. As it
happens, I have two 36v automatic golf cart chargers, and the Elec-Trak,
as of this weekend, has two places on it for them to connect. I have
used both to charge the tractor and everything seems fine.
To use both chargers, I assume all I have to do is plug each one in, one
at a time, and make sure that they are on a separate electrical circuit
so I don't trip a breaker.
I guess my question is will this work? Both chargers seem to have a
sensor of some point as they don't start to charge until they have been
connected for a few seconds. Will they interfere with each other's
ability to turn on?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think this will work. Most likely your inverter will not accept a
higher voltage than the current pack provides.
Right, I meant parallel. I have thought about putting a *few* batteries
in series with the main controller, I could raise the voltage to 348
volts base (380 at 13.1; just under the 400 volt limit) but that would
give me only 48 volts@ 52ah=2.4kw or 8 miles more range and require a
seperate charger for the top 48 volts anyway.
It sounds like what you want to do is connect an additional pack of the same
voltage, preferably identical or similar to the one already in the car, in
PARALLEL with the current pack, not in series. This will effectively double
the number of Watt-hours available, and should nearly double your range.
Bingo. Actually put a small secondary battery as doubling the pack would
add an additional thousand pounds of weight.
However, a range extender trailer is a very viable way of making your car
more flexible and capable. If connected correctly it should work very well
for you.
This is a thought.
This assumes you have a connection which can handle driving current. I
think you will do better with that instead of doing as you propose, using a
small gauge, low current connection. Hook up a 1/0 cable to each end of the
pack and bring it out to a nice big Anderson connector. Good idea to fuse
it appropriately too.
That's probably the *right* way to do it (as opposed to the "quick")
However I think I would probably want that wire to have a seperate set
of contactors at the controller to make it 0 volts unless the range pack
was installed. Otherwise I would have 300 volts sitting outside the pack
when the car was stopped at a light. The combo of a pair of contactors
at either end would make the solution safe, but would require more space
inside the Dolphin than I have. Hm.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
I got a surprise that I would like to share with ya'all. I was charging
a Ni cad block of 5 cells@ 6 volts, no, not the nice 600's from the Humphrey
Haul, but a larger set of cells that I got from Tony Acrizzi, Alcads. I had
let them charge awile and, took the lead off, from the charger. Hit one of
the posts, got a spark, and BLAM!!! DAMN it was LOUD, WORSE than blowing up
a led acid! With those the only one cell blows, but THIS one the whole damn
pack blew! ALL THE GODAMN cells! Don't try this at home! I had NO idea that
the nicads were that explosive! They must gas, too? Better than Hydrogen,
for sure! I was lucky! I cought a jacket, it was cold that day, of battery
schrapnel, in the midships. Had it been in the face it sure woulda been a
trip to the ER! Sprayed with Potassium? WhatEVer they use as juice, it
wasn't as bad as Lead acid jizz. A shower took care of that, and the clothes
wern't eaten up, like a Lead Acid spill.
OK. battery garues? Are these more of a sparking shorting hazard than
Lead Acids? WHAT part of "Safety First" did I miss? Yeah, never spark around
juicy batteries?Is, I would think is a hazard that we should be warning and
thinking about. What with all those cute 600's out there, they COULD be a
BOMB in the belly of an EV!! Like if they ALL join in the fun and blow!
Could be embarrassing in traffic! Or at show an' tell.
One thought, with the o topsy, the plates filled only about half of the
battery boxes! You, or they coulda made the plates taller for more power in
the same footprint? Probably how T 145's are made from T 105's by a taller
box and higher plates? Maybe the room in there was needed for more
electrolyte? Or more explosive gas<G>!
One blast's worth
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Didn't the Porsche 911 come with front bumper weights, about 65 Lbs of
lead? I may be remembering wrong
There are two types of 911's: Prior to 1969 and 1969 and later (well, up
to the early 90's when they changed everything). Note: I have a 68 911L
and a 74 914.
Before 1969 the 911 was a very tricky car. It had a short wheel base and
had a tendency to spin because of the motor weight hanging behind the
rear wheels. This could be considered a "good" thing if you know how to
drive it; my dad can do turns safely in his 68 911L that involve
spinning the rear till the car is pointing where you want to go, then
flooring the gas to straighten out the car. It's amazing, kind of like
having a second steering wheel. I'm still learning those features.
To balance the motor in 68, Porsche put two 35lb weights in the front
corners of the front bumper. This helped somewhat, however the car can
still spin on a dime.
In 1969 Porsche changed the car by lengthing the wheel base with respect
to the motor. Now more of the motor was in front of the rear wheels, and
handling was a lot more stable (however less maneuverable). Depends on
what you like, but it was a "safer" and more stable car as a result.
In 1970 Porsche started putting two small batteries up front instead of
one big one and dropped the bumper weights. This turned out to be a bad
idea since twice as much rust happened (from leaking batteries rotting
the batt trays), people would only replace one battery, and the length
of the cables made for a very unbalanced pair.
Of course the greatest boo-boo was in 1972, when they put the oil tank
filler on the outside of the car, just like a little gas tank door (the
tank is in the front). Many people would mistake this and would fill the
oil tank with gasoline, very very bad.
I would not recommend converting a 1968 or earlier 911 to electric.
First because of the short wheel base meaning more battery would be
outside of the wheels, and second because they tended to rust a *lot*.
Not many exist today in good shape.
Chris
--- End Message ---
