EV Digest 4261
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Panhard
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Avcon charge port needed for my new ranger
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Aero drag and VW fenders.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Amazingly light 6 passenger Panhard.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: S-10 conversion for sale, "needs batteries"
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Panhard story.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Nailed-Baldor motors
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Max voltage for unloaded ADC 9
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Bay Area -- Looking for used GEM Utility
by "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: pusher to electric
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Nailed-Baldor motors
by russco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) The perfect wood bodied EV- Dycus, this one's for you!
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: S-10 conversion for sale, "needs batteries"
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: The perfect wood bodied EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Perfect wood EV- Tryanne, More, cheaper power and Freedom EV
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) GEM steering recall? Steering gear sources Was -- Looking for used GEM
Utility
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Nailed-Baldor motors, comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Fw: Locomotives
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) A call for conversion specialists
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Sparrow EV drive, motor, belt questions
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Cheap DC/DC converters 600W Vicor Mega Mod $45
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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1100 pounds without motor. All Aluminium construction. Anyone heard of it?
French. Citiron?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a DS-50 Dennis Email me off list if interested. Lawrence
Rhodes..........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: Avcon charge port needed for my new ranger
<< There is already a receptal on the car which has 3 large wires 220 an
grd.
Then there are 3 other small wires.Does the ford emulator talk to these
small
wires?Can any ford dealer get these?Are there service manuals avaible?
Dennis
Berube >>
The little wires *may* have something to do with the emulator, but I don't
know.
Never saw a service manual for the charger, and doubt there is much tech
support
at Ford, but maybe other Ranger owners know - Ford stole mine away, so I'm
going
by memory. Might want to snipe that Avcon wall unit on eBay!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
--- John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> jerry dycus wrote:
>
> >If he wants to go over 50 mph he needs to find
> >another donor to convert. No?
>
> Nope. Just a new body. Manta Montage? Dalhems
> Spydermania?
> Aztec? Porsche Spyder, 911, Speedster, or 959
> replica?
> Sterling? Avante GT? Auriga? Avenger? Invader GT?
> Jamaican?
> Kelmark?
Now there is a fender change with potential! ;-))
I especially like the Jamacian GT ! A 64 Ferrari
Daytona knock off.
I'd love to have one of those! There is a kit
builder near me with a new body for $5k I want badly.
Would even make a good 3wheeler. Anyone know where an
old FiberFab one is?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
>
> So many lighter choices that have such small frontal
> area,
> and could be made to have exceptional aerodynamics
> with some
> modifications. All attach nicely to a VW Bug.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
The Arcane Auto Society sure has some light cars. A 6 passenger car
with the power train of Fiat 850. The Panhard should go well with very low
voltage and a smallish motor. LR.........
The first aluminium bodied production car:
The first production car to use aluminium as a structural material for
its body shell was the French-made Panhard Dyna in 1954. It was an oddball
design, powered by a diminutive 850 cc two-stroke engine, but weighed only
629 kg and could carry six people. Truly another mileage by Panhard, which
in 1894 had produced the forerunner of the modern car (the first Panhard)
with a front mounted engine driving the rear wheels via clutch and gearbox.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The early charger boards cannot be upgraded if they have a) Faston output
connectors or b) cylindrical input capacitors. Neither of them are reliable
enough to sustain 30 amps of output current for more than a few hours.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: S-10 conversion for sale, "needs batteries"
> Nick Austin wrote:
>
> > Just for anybody who may not know (me), what is the buck enhancement
> > feature?
>
> "The buck enhancement option on the PFC-20 will enhance the output to 30
amps."
>
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/pfc20and30.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.citroenet.org.uk/html/p/panhard2.htm
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 Apr 2005 at 19:13, Rod Hower wrote:
> In my 'biased' opinion, Baldor makes the best motors
> US money can buy.
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Baldor got something of a bad name in the
EV community through no apparent fault of their own.
A bunch of Baldor motors, sepex or shunt IIRC, made their way into
conversions (surplus buy? Lee Hart or one of the other longtime EVers here
may remember where they came from). They had, I think, class B insulation,
and quite a few of them let all their smoke drift away on the West Coast
breeze.
I had one of these motors at one time that I'd gotten as part of a larger
deal. It sat in my garage for years, condition unknown but reportedly "not
too good" - the com at least looked pretty rough. I finally gave to Peter
VanDerWal. (Did you ever do anything with that motor, Peter?)
This is really a case of the wrong motor for the application, pushed WAY
beyond its capabilities, but it tarnished Baldor's name, probably unjustly.
It would be very interesting to see what they build today that would be
suited to EV use.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
24v SEEMS alright , but not much more .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fortunat Mueller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: Max voltage for unloaded ADC 9
Hey list
what is the max voltage that you would feel
comforatble running through an unloaded ADC 9 incher.
I have run mine for extended periods on just 12 V, and
i know that is no problem, but is 24 ok ?
I just stuck 24 V worth of batteries in the back of
the fiero and would like to be able to drive it in and
out of the garage using the clutch. I want to make
sure I won't overspeed the motor.
so, what voltage is too high for an unloaded motor ?
thanks
~fortunat
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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--- Begin Message ---
Suggestions on where to find one?
Thanks.
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Fortunat Mueller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> speaking of these little gel cell batteries : what is
> the proper end of charge voltage for a 12 V gel cell ?
> is it the same as a flooded battery ?
No.
> My pushmower's (Singer) built in charger is no more so
> I have been using a dc power supply to charge but i
> don't really know what voltage i should be using. I
> have been estimating about 28.5 V for the 24 V pack.
> am i close ?
Yes. 28.5V is 2.375V/cell; typical charging parameters for gel cells
are 2.30-2.35V/[EMAIL PROTECTED], compensated by 5mv/cell/degree C from 20C.
Limit the initial current to 0.3-0.4 of the C/20 rating, and terminate
the charge when the current tapers to 1-1.5% of the C/20 rating.
Are you sure that your little VRLA batteries are gel rather than AGM?
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
Yep, a fellow by the name of Charles Huntley out of Oakland was selling
the Baldor motors around '82, if memory is correct. Rated at 8 hp and
100 amps, they all fried sooner or later. This was the time everyone
was using 2CM77's like Bruce McCaskie. The Willey 7, 400 amp transistor
controller was the thing and Steve Post and PMC hadn't been heard of
yet. Fortunately, the Prestolite MTC-4001 saved the day.
Yep, 1982. Where are they now? Bill Williams, Stan Skokan, Al Hardage?
Mike Brown with Electro Auto and Ken Koch with KTA are about the only
players still going from the old days. And Russ, too.
Russ Kaufmann
RUSSCO Engineering
The other PFC Charger
David Roden wrote:
In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Baldor got something of a bad name in the
EV community through no apparent fault of their own.
A bunch of Baldor motors, sepex or shunt IIRC, made their way into
conversions (surplus buy? Lee Hart or one of the other longtime EVers here
may remember where they came from). They had, I think, class B insulation,
and quite a few of them let all their smoke drift away on the West Coast
breeze.
I had one of these motors at one time that I'd gotten as part of a larger
deal. It sat in my garage for years, condition unknown but reportedly "not
too good" - the com at least looked pretty rough. I finally gave to Peter
VanDerWal. (Did you ever do anything with that motor, Peter?)
This is really a case of the wrong motor for the application, pushed WAY
beyond its capabilities, but it tarnished Baldor's name, probably unjustly.
It would be very interesting to see what they build today that would be
suited to EV use.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://home.clara.net/peterfrost/tryaneii.html
You could make something much like this, but with a smaller
frontal area by lowering and narrowing the car and
maintaining the same coefficieint of drag.
Load it up with 25 Orbitals, about 70% of its weight in
batteries, and it will have > 100 miles highway range,
especially with those aerodynamics. Could have an
exceptionally low center of gravity. All it would need would
be a WarP 8'' and a zilla 1k for about 110 horsepower and
much more torque than it needs. A 1500 pound car with 24
Orbitals, WarP 8'', and 1k Zilla would easily do 0-60 in
about 5 seconds, or less, and would cost < $12k to build.
The poor man's TZero. Or go with a WarP 9'' and Zilla 2k for
about $15k total and dust off Vipers and maybe set some
NEDRA world records!
Build a nifty kit like this, and I'd certainly buy from you!
If not, I'll have to make my own design that is like this,
only lower and much more refined in the looks department to
attract some interest among quality snobs. Maybe even do it
with fiberglass instead of wood(I already have a friend that
would be glad to show me how to work with the stuff.). And
probably a four-wheeler. But the GT6 EV will be built before
any new projects, assuming I don't keep refining and
perfecting that one obsessively like Bryan did with his
Ghia. :-)
Excellent piece of work this guy did, even if it's still a
gas chugger. 55+ MPGs and 100 MPH top end ain't bad off an
underpowered engine that makes precious little over 20 peak
horsepower.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Joe,
How come the PFC-30 gives a 10% lower power output at 240VAC than
208VAC, for battery voltage of 120V or less? What's the charger
topology?
Just interested!
Evan.
On Apr 6, 2005 4:25 AM, Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The early charger boards cannot be upgraded if they have a) Faston output
> connectors or b) cylindrical input capacitors. Neither of them are reliable
> enough to sustain 30 amps of output current for more than a few hours.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 3:00 PM
> Subject: Re: S-10 conversion for sale, "needs batteries"
>
> > Nick Austin wrote:
> >
> > > Just for anybody who may not know (me), what is the buck enhancement
> > > feature?
> >
> > "The buck enhancement option on the PFC-20 will enhance the output to 30
> amps."
> >
> > http://www.manzanitamicro.com/pfc20and30.htm
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< http://home.clara.net/peterfrost/tryaneii.html
You could make something much like this, but with a smaller
frontal area by lowering and narrowing the car and
maintaining the same coefficieint of drag. >>
The tail end is a bit odd, but that is one beautiful car! You can seen the 2000
hrs of work in the fit and finish. Any idea how he measured the Cd? I didn't
think you could just figure it on paper or "in your head"; it needs full scale
or model testing, not theoretical expectations.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
--- John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://home.clara.net/peterfrost/tryaneii.html
You come thru again John!!!
This is one of my favorite 3wheelers which is
beautiful except for it's rear end. Shows what can be
done in wood/epoxy.
>
> You could make something much like this, but with a
> smaller
> frontal area by lowering and narrowing the car and
> maintaining the same coefficieint of drag.
Lowering wouldn't help much as other interference
aero drags come into play some, maybe 5% with a
smoother bottom.. But that is almost 5 miles more
range at speed!!
>
> Load it up with 25 Orbitals, about 70% of its weight
> in
> batteries, and it will have > 100 miles highway
> range,
> especially with those aerodynamics. Could have an
Probably fewer than that number of Orbitals. As
it's so light as my 3wheelers are you could get by
with less expensive and longer range batts like
12vdc-140 amp hr and only need 8 of them or about
600lbs of batt to get 100 mile range in it or so.
I'd guess it would get about 60 watthrs/mile
energy use at 60 mph if optimized as an EV.
My E-woody gets 100watthrs/mile from the plug now
and is no where near optimzed.
The Freedom EV all composite version we are doing,
male molds going to the boatbuilders to make the
tooling next week, should get about 80watthrs/mile
when done from higher frontal area than the Tryanne2.
> exceptionally low center of gravity. All it would
> need would
> be a WarP 8'' and a zilla 1k for about 110
> horsepower and
> much more torque than it needs. A 1500 pound car
> with 24
> Orbitals, WarP 8'', and 1k Zilla would easily do
> 0-60 in
> about 5 seconds, or less, and would cost < $12k to
> build.
> The poor man's TZero. Or go with a WarP 9'' and
> Zilla 2k for
> about $15k total and dust off Vipers and maybe set
> some
> NEDRA world records!
You would be limited in the torque you could put on
the ground by the single rear wheel drive or the front
drive which would not transfer the power well like it
has either, assuming you used a better tramsmission or
better, just a diff.
So a controller as big as a Zilla would be a waste,
instead get an SRE TSE 600-96vdc one would give you
great power and cost much less.
If needing more power, it's designed for a
contactor bypass or twin motors S/P with field
weakening for better top end power. With the bypass
you could insert 2-6 more batts in series for better
top end power!!
Because the EV versions of it as mine are so light,
about 1200lbs with these batts, the controllers makes
all the amps needed from voltage and batt amps are
fairly low while getting all the power to the road a
light EV like this could take. For racing just 8
orbitals would make even lighter, faster in the 1/4
mile as weight would be under 1,000lbs.
Now go to 3 wheel drive and what you say is true
though still need many fewer Orbitals to do it.
Mine will have adjustable height so you can be seen
in traffic but lowered for high speed work and just to
be cool! It's air pump and a tire repair kit replaces
the spare.
.
>
> Build a nifty kit like this, and I'd certainly buy
> from you!
Either a glider kit will in about 3-5 months or
even finished Freedom EV's will be available.
> If not, I'll have to make my own design that is like
> this,
> only lower and much more refined in the looks
> department to
> attract some interest among quality snobs. Maybe
> even do it
> with fiberglass instead of wood(I already have a
> friend that
> would be glad to show me how to work with the
That's what I'm doing!
> stuff.). And
> probably a four-wheeler. But the GT6 EV will be
> built before
> any new projects, assuming I don't keep refining and
> perfecting that one obsessively like Bryan did with
> his
> Ghia. :-)
Both are excellent choices for lightweight 2 seat
EV racers ;-))
Bryan has always been an inspiration to me of what
an EV could be..
>
> Excellent piece of work this guy did, even if it's
> still a
> gas chugger. 55+ MPGs and 100 MPH top end ain't bad
> off an
> underpowered engine that makes precious little over
> 20 peak
> horsepower.
>
If he had a more eff engine than a 50 yr old
aircooled 2cyl, like the 3cyl Metro or a diesel like
the Rabbit it would get close to 100 mpg.
But even better would be as an EV where at
$.10/kwhr cost for electrcity it would only cost
$.006/mile for fuel!!!
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
In looking for parts for my new Ev project, I
came accross some GEM steering racks that look fairly
good but then found out they were changed out in a
recall so now not so sure about them.
Anyone know of this and what it about?
Or does anyone know of a good lightweight
steering gear box, rack that could be used at a
reasonable price in quanity?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "russco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:07 AM
Subject: Re: Nailed-Baldor motors
> Yep, a fellow by the name of Charles Huntley out of Oakland was selling
> the Baldor motors around '82, if memory is correct. Rated at 8 hp and
Hi EVErybody;
The 7 or 8 hp Baldor?? Forget it! I had one in the Rabbit. It lasted
about a Weak! killed it on Chatfield Hollow Hill a tough 400 amper, the
Ruling Grade around here! It fizzled out before I EVen got half way up. Had
to WALK home, the final indignity of an EVer! Well., last night I sang up
that hill as I do most EVery night@ 400 amps @ 40 mph in my ADC Warfield
rebuilt 9 incher!The BATTERIES would cry out in agony if they could, though!
Damn Baldor is about as BIG as a adv,and HEAVY, it was a easy swap to put
the 9 in the Rabbit. We have been honeymooning EVer since. Baldor didn't use
class H insulation, so it fried early on.Not to mention the wimpy little
comm and brushes. It wasn't MADE for a traction motor. Save heartbrake and
get a WARP, or an ADV. Warps are better. Shameless plug here but the WARPS
were designed a bit by Listers here! Baldors would make good Boat anchors
when you run out of Lester GC Chargers<g>! Hold a bigger boat!
> 100 amps, they all fried sooner or later. This was the time everyone
> was using 2CM77's like Bruce McCaskie. The Willey 7, 400 amp transistor
> controller was the thing and Steve Post and PMC hadn't been heard of
> yet. Fortunately, the Prestolite MTC-4001 saved the day.
Had a 2CM in a Corvair Corsa, fried it, too, on the streets of
Detroit 35 years ago in my EFP daze.Gees ,IF I had a 4001 back then!
Probably would still be drivin' it!
AMEN! Back in the early daze of EVing it wasn't easy to get a decent
TM!!I mean a motor built to do what we wanted. You newbees are lucky, buy a
Whatever and bolt it in and away you go! And you can EVen buy ready to go
controllers, too. Yes, we have come along way, folks!
>
> Yep, 1982. Where are they now? Bill Williams, Stan Skokan, Al Hardage?
> Mike Brown with Electro Auto and Ken Koch with KTA are about the only
> players still going from the old days. And Russ, too.
>
> Maybe they just arent on the List?
> Russ Kaufmann
> RUSSCO Engineering
> The other PFC Charger
>
> Good to see you, Russ ,here, still! Hang with us!
>
> David Roden wrote:
>
> > In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Baldor got something of a bad name in
the
> > EV community through no apparent fault of their own.
> >
> > A bunch of Baldor motors, sepex or shunt IIRC, made their way into
> > conversions (surplus buy? Lee Hart or one of the other longtime EVers
here
> > may remember where they came from). They had, I think, class B
insulation,
> > and quite a few of them let all their smoke drift away on the West Coast
> > breeze.
> > Well ,I added to it, on the Least Coast in CT!
> > I had one of these motors at one time that I'd gotten as part of a
larger
> > deal. It sat in my garage for years, condition unknown but reportedly
"not
> > too good" - the com at least looked pretty rough. I finally gave to
Peter
> > VanDerWal. (Did you ever do anything with that motor, Peter?)
> >
> > This is really a case of the wrong motor for the application, pushed WAY
> > beyond its capabilities, but it tarnished Baldor's name, probably
unjustly.
> > It would be very interesting to see what they build today that would be
> > suited to EV use.
I think they found their nitch in industrial motors?? Not
interested in TM's
> >
> > Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi EVerybody;
See if this forwards?? All the questions you wanted to ask about lokies!
In Training
Bob
Locomotives pull into the digital age
Century-old diesel-electric technology endures.
By John Dodge, Editor in Chief -- EDN, 3/31/2005
AT A GLANCE
a.. Digital electronics have swept the locomotive cabinet.
b.. Component testing is brutal and varied for the myriad harsh environments
a locomotive encounters.
c.. Hybrid engine technology is on the short-term horizon, but more powerful
and fuel-efficient diesel engines have already arrived.
d.. Computerized diagnostics monitor 3000 to 5000 locomotive parameters and
wirelessly transmit the data to technicians.
Sidebars:
Q&A with Norman Bridge
Though locomotive-diesel-electric technology has been around for the better
part of a century, nothing sits on the immediate horizon that will displace it
for hauling freight and passenger trains in North America. From the
perspectives of cost, power, control, efficiency, and reliability, a durable
concept exists of a diesel engine's driving a large alternator to power
traction motors on each axle.
But that concept doesn't mean that GE (GE Transportation) or the EMD
(Electro-Motive Division) unit of GM (General Motors), the two biggest US
locomotive builders, have been standing still, especially when it comes to
electronics. On Jan 12, GM, which has owned EMD since 1930, said it planned to
sell the unit to Greenbriar Equity Group LLC and Berkshire Partners.
Until the digital age a dozen years ago reached locomotives , diesel-electric
technology evolved slowly. After all, locomotives at their core going back to
steam power are mechanical beasts of burden and remarkably grimy ones at that.
Today, they measure 76 ft long, weigh more than 200 tons, and cost more than $2
million. Most of all, they are highly specialized, so chances of people ever
sitting in one much less operating one are akin to lottery odds. Their builders
produce fewer of them than automakers do trucks, for example. In 2004, GE and
EMD built 826 and 500 to 600 units, respectively.
During the past decade, computerization and networking has swept the locomotive
and infrastructure supporting it. The cab looks more like an
aircraft-controller workstation than the traditional hodgepodge of metal
levers, knobs, and gauges (Figure 1). What's more, new locomotives wirelessly
link to diagnostic and support centers. On the power side, ac traction motors,
which are more reliable and less complex than their dc counterparts, now
constitute about half of all sales at both GE and EMD. For decades, dc traction
motors dominated.
Such innovations come at an opportune time, because rail transportation is
entering a period of growth, according to Tony Hatch, an independent railroad
analyst. "The railroad industry is moving from a cost-cutting phase to a growth
phase. Coal and container [traffic] are only going to get bigger. That means
good things for locomotives ," he says, adding that demand is also strong
offshore in countries such as China and Australia.
At their most basic level, locomotives pull, push, start, and stop. The extreme
environments in which they operate complicate the job. Moving a 110-car,
10,000-ton grain train�about 2000 tons heavier than a US Navy destroyer�up,
over, and down mountains where the air is thin, across scorching deserts, and
around sharp curves is challenging enough. But the real enemies of smooth
operation are temperature extremes and moisture.
"For the past five years, the biggest emphasis has been on reliability and
performance. That's true with mechanical, combustion, cooling, and the
electronics. The challenge is improving reliability to reduce road failures and
removals and still getting more freight through the same corridor faster," says
Wolfgang Daum, manager of controls and software for GE Transportation Systems.
"The challenge is how to best deliver power to the rail."
Six years in development, GE's latest locomotive, the 4400-hp Evolution Series
(Figure 2), just completed 4.5 million miles of field testing. The investment
in Evolution totaled $200 million and has yielded 25 patents and 13 patents
pending, according to GE's Web site. The brains of the locomotive are 20
Pentium-class microprocessors that monitor and control the various subsystems,
such as the diesel engine, or "prime mover"; traction motors; main alternator;
and auxiliary systems, such as the radiator fans, compressors, traction-motor
blowers, and battery chargers. They measure and check 2500 to 5000 parameters
with data latency varying from tens of microseconds to tens of seconds,
depending on the system, says Daum.
For example, one computer oversees such functions as traction control to
maximize wheel adhesion on the rails. The contact surface between rail and
wheel isn't much bigger than a dime. "The steel-to-steel interface is crucial.
The 1000-hp inverter in each axle regulates torque and slip. If you get it
wrong at 4400-hp, you burn through the rail in a hurry," explains Daum.
Individual axle control minimizes slippage. A typical locomotive has six axles,
so if one slips, the horsepower transfers to another that is still getting
traction.
The onboard network between the computers borrows heavily from CANs
(controller-area-networks) in automobiles. Besides CANBus, other networking and
computer interfaces include RS-232, RS-488, Ethernet, and redundant ArcNet.
Multiple units in the same train communicate wirelessly, and all networks use
error-correcting techniques. The computers run the QNX real-time Unix variant,
and the applications to run the various power subsystems are in written in
Matlab, Matrixx, and C++, says Daum.
A single jumbo covered hopper car now carries 111 tons of grain. Such a load
would damage the lighter rail commonly found on short-line railroads. The
demanding power requirements of these newer units and their ability to operate
almost anywhere in the world mean that the electrical and digital components
undergo brutal testing. At GE, engineers place the board electronics in a
chamber in which temperature ranges from -90 to +180�C within 50 sec. Daum
declines to disclose the actual temperature specifications of the boards. "We
do a lot of testing for margin," he says. "You need to know how you perform for
outside normal operation. You can have temperatures of -50�C in the Canadian
Rockies to +50�C in Death Valley and up to +90�C in a tunnel where gases and
heat collect. We test for much more than those extremes," he adds. "I'm happy
when you can melt the solder and it still works."
GE also uses compressed air hammers to simulate as much as 60g of random
banging and vibration on the electronics. In the locomotive, specially built
cages house the cards. These cages handle thermal shock, vibration, and extreme
temperatures, but GE generally doesn't use shock mounts, says Daum.
Electromechanical devices, such as contactors, must withstand the same abuse.
Most of the cooling for these components comes from large fans.
Overload testing also includes stressing the diesel engine above its design
limit by operating it at 120% of its normal capacity to see what "lets loose"
first. This practice helps achieve the lowest possible FLY
(failure/locomotive-year) rate.
Key to Evolution is room to grow. For instance, the same diesel engine becomes
more powerful but continues to meet increasingly stringent EPA (Environmental
Protection Agency) emission standards. Tier 2 standards this year go into
effect to reduce the release of nitrogen oxides and particulate matter, and the
industry expects the EPA to later impose even tighter regulations. The
Evolution diesel has 12 cylinders and still generates more horsepower than its
16-cylinder forebear.
One forthcoming feature in the Evolution will be ability of the traction motors
to capture energy when the train is traveling downhill or coasting to a stop.
The traction motors convert the energy to electricity and store it in a battery
pack, promising a 10 to 15% savings in fuel consumption. This so-called hybrid
technology extends a function known as dynamic braking, which for the past 30
years has deployed the traction motors as a braking system to slow the
locomotive, particularly on steep grades. The hybrid principle might sound
simple, but one of the major design challenges was developing batteries that
could on a daily basis withstand the sudden surges of electricity. "That's
millions of dollar of opportunity," says Daum.
Engineers seeking ways to conserve fuel need not base those methods on
sophisticated technology such as the hybrid. EMD, for instance, has developed
AutoStart technology, which determines when an idle locomotive should start or
shut down. AutoStart senses engine temperature, battery voltage, and current
and air reservoir pressure and acts upon the readings. In cold weather,
locomotives typically run continuously to prevent systems from freezing and
becoming damaged. A locomotive runs 50% or more of its lifetime, which can be
40 years or more. EMD estimates that halving the average annual idle time of
3600 hours could result in a potential fuel savings of 5400 to 7200 gallons per
locomotive each year. When a locomotive is about to start with no one in the
cab, an alarm sounds so that unsuspecting bystanders don't become frightened.
The two biggest innovations at EMD are the unit's onboard FIRE (functionally
integrated railroad electronics) computers and the IntelliTrain system for
remote monitoring and diagnostics. The FIRE system, which EMD also based on
Pentium-class microprocessors and the CAN architecture, comprises three
hardened PC104-bus computers running embedded Windows XP and one to three
operator displays, which consolidate a dozen standard gauges, indicators, and
controls. "We looked at the locomotive as a networked device. Our engineers
must have a good understanding of networking," explains Norman Bridge, director
of control and electrical systems design at EMD. "We also leveraged COTS
(commercial-off-the-shelf) hardware. We're system integrators asking how can
you take these building blocks and integrate them together. The software, for
example, is object-oriented and based on Windows XP, so it's much easier to add
new functionality" (see sidebar "Q&A with Norman Bridge").
Windows XP on a locomotive?
Bridge claims that, although Windows XP has a problematic reputation on
desktops, EMD has enjoyed a different experience. "We have not had a single
failure," he says. "Most of the problems with Windows for desktop PC
applications has to due with the limitless combination of software applications
and hardware combinations that it must support. The locomotive application is a
dedicated hardware platform. The user doesn't change it by plugging in a new
video adapter, for example, and incorrectly loading the driver."
The IntelliTrain system, which just moved into commercial production, diagnoses
faults and reports them to an EMD technical-support center, which channels the
information in any of four directions. The center stores about 5 sec of data
for each fault and performs pseudo-real-time checks on about 10% of the 3000
parameters that FIRE monitors. As with GE, latency varies on EMD locomotives ,
but the system samples some signals at 1-msec intervals. The customer can view
the data on a secure Web site, or the system can send electronic alerts to
pagers, cell phones, or e-mail addresses. Alternatively, the customer's
information systems can directly integrate the data, or a technician can
diagnose the problem and send work orders to the customer.
The onboard LAN collects data indicating, for instance, the locomotive's speed,
location, fuel level and consumption, usage by fleet or region, and
kilowatt-hours, and the health of all the major subsystems. Then, cellular or
satellite technology uploads the data to the support center. Such highly
automated support is available only to newer units, such as EMD's SD70ACe and
SD70M-2 and retrofits (Figure 3). Service for most locomotives still requires a
visit from a mechanic. "Via the electronics and sensors, we're able to validate
the health of the locomotive and the accuracy of a repair. [The challenge] is
coming up with algorithms that interpret the various signals coming off the
locomotive," says Curt Swenson, EMD director of market development and
communications. "The difference is being able diagnose a problem while the
locomotive is still in service. It's not uncommon to lose days of availability
when a unit has to go to a shop for diagnosis." Early detection and correction
can also help avoid more costly repairs or worse, a catastrophe. GE offers
PinPoint and Expert-on-Alert, similarly automated service and support products.
Like many nascent platforms in the digital world, only imagination�and
cash�limit the ability to add functions. EMD plans to later implement wireless
technology between multiple locomotives operating in the same train. And
technicians will eventually be able to remotely start or shut down locomotives .
On the power side, thanks to the migration from gate-turnoff thyristors to
IGBTs (insulated-gate bipolar transistors) in the traction inverters, EMD has
reduced the number of add-in cards from 50 to two in ac locomotives . One
dedicated controller oversees three axles, which makes up a truck, or "bogie."
"They are easier to control and allowed us to shrink the cabinet [that housed
them]," says EMD's Bridge. "We still have a large cabinet, but the control
functions have been greatly simplified. Reliability is very much related to the
number of electronic components you have in a locomotive." A single blower and
passively cooled computers reduce cabinet heat.
GE has made a similar migration to IGBTs, which it claims has resulted in
having 5000 fewer components in the locomotive and 1 million miles between
traction motor overhauls. Like GE, EMD performs extensive testing and deploys
error and electrical-noise safeguards, such as shielding, balanced signal
lines, and adherence to wiring-separation standards. "We also employ input
debounce and filtering," Bridge says.
Critical systems, such as the electronics, undergo HALT (highly accelerated
life testing). Over the years, engineers have developed standards for designing
components to withstand dirt and dust, shock and vibration, thermal shock,
heat, and humidity. These systems typically have forced-air cooling, thus
whenever possible avoiding the need for replacement filters and shock mounting,
explains Bridge.
As for overarching trends in electronics design, GE's Daum would like the see
the power electronics catch up with continual advances made in DSPs. The
challenge for engineers is to harness the quantum leaps DSP technology makes
when the power technology advances at much slower pace.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Author Information
You can reach Editor in Chief John Dodge at 1-781-734-8437, fax
1-781-290-3437, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Q&A with Norman Bridge
Norman Bridge is the director of control and electrical systems design at GM's
Electro-Motive Division and has more than 20 years of experience designing
hardware and software for embedded vehicle-control systems. He has bachelor's
and master's degrees in electrical engineering from Illinois Institute of
Technology and a master's degree in engineering management from Northwestern
University. Bridge explains what he thinks electrical engineers need to know in
the locomotive field.
EDN : What should electrical engineers be thinking about with respect to
locomotive electronics?
Bridge: Locomotive design requires a broad range of electrical engineering
skills: Power-systems design, control-systems design, software engineering, and
networking and communications are all core technology skills for locomotive
design. Engineers must have an understanding of how to design for rugged
environments. [ Locomotives encounter] a lot of vibration, dirt, high
temperatures, and humidity. We try to stay away from conditioning in terms of
filters and shock-mounting as much as possible because that means maintenance
problems for the railroads.
EDN : What are the most important developments in locomotive electronics in the
past five years?
Bridge: For Electro-Motive, the most important locomotive electronics
developments [include] the development of FIRE (functionally integrated
railroad electronics), our operator display and cab computer; development of
IntelliTrain, the wireless locomotive; and the application of IGBT
(insulated-gate-bipolar-transistor) traction inverters, which have reduced the
cost of ac traction locomotives while improving reliability.
EDN : Can you give some examples of the future innovations in locomotive
electronics? What are the hot technologies?
Bridge: We are just beginning to scratch the surface with wireless technology
and how it can improve railroad operations and improve fuel economy.
Electro-Motive is participating in an FRA (Federal Railway Administration)-
sponsored project to develop a system to remotely monitor and control train
cars using FIRE and IntelliTrain technology. This type of system could improve
both safety and operating efficiency.
EDN : How does a customer choose between a locomotive with ac motors and one
with dc traction motors?
Bridge: Typically, railroads use ac traction locomotives for heavy-haul
operations, such as coal, that require very high adhesion levels and are very
demanding on the traction motors. DC locomotives are typically used in lighter
duty service.
EDN : What are the key design challenges and trade-offs for both technologies?
Bridge: AC locomotives require sophisticated power electronics and software to
control the operation of the ac motors. DC locomotives have simpler control
electronics but require bigger and more complex motors.
EDN : What does the future of innovation look like with respect to ac and dc
power generation?
Bridge: Reliability, adhesion, and cost are the keys. Improving the efficiency
and reliability of the drive and auxiliary systems through the use of larger
power devices and more sophisticated controls [is also important].
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
I got a call from a guy this morning that is looking to convert a van.
He's in a band, and says he travels 2 hours or less every day. He isn't
up to doing the conversion by himself, but is willing to fork out some
dough to do it (no idea how much). The most obvious suggestion was for
him to talk to Grassroots EV. Is anyone else doing conversions for
others? I would certainly like to, but am not in the position to yet.
If anyone would like to talk to this guy directly, let me know and I'll
send you his e-mail address.
Thanks,
Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I need some info on the Sparrow and how the
EV drive is doing as I'm planning a similar though
improved version of th drive.
On the Belt, how is it wearing in Sparrow's
that haven't had to change them?
On some I know they had problems as they were
set up too tight at the factory thus breaking either
the belt, motor bearings, axle shaft but need info on
the ones that were set up with the proper looseness
that Gates requires for proper set up.
They have a design manual you can get from any
Gates polychain Dist like Motion Industries, a
division of NAPA in most cities and NAPA if you push
them in other smaller towns that shows you how.
As I understand it, these problems could be
solved by opening the axle shaft hole forward in the
trailing arm to allow enough play to press down on the
belt so it deflects 1" or so. Yet some have went
through 7 belts!!! While other haven't changed even
one I hear!
Next, is the motor good enough once the
correct timing is on it? I need to find out if it will
hold up in my direct drive set up as mine weighs about
the same as the Sparrow. Is it an 8"ADC?
What rear sprockets are being used and who
makes them? On ones who's bearings, belts are lasting,
how are they wearing?
The number of teeth on both sprockets?
Top Speed without governor?
0-60mph and 1/4mile times?
I wanted to ask these on the Sparrow list
but the moderator said they were off topic!!! So now
I turn to you all.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I kow there are a few folks out there looking for affordable DC-DC
converters. While searching for something else, I came across this:
http://www.halted.com/ccp11977-dc-dc-converter-150v-15v-600watt-vi-n52-em-19678.htm
It's a Vicor Mega Mod:
Input 100V-200V (150V nominal) brown out at 85V
Output 15V +-10% @ 40 Amps
I believe some other folks ahve used these in EVs, so perhaps they can
comment on suitability, but at only $45 seems like too good of a deal to
pass up (I ordered one).
--- End Message ---
