EV Digest 4269
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Net Gain wiring
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) re: looking for an odd EV part
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVS-21 Report
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Net Gain wiring
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 36V Inverters Re: pusher to electric
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EVS-21 Report. THANKS! Comments
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: 36V Inverters Re: pusher to electric
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Compressed air for regen
by Dave Narby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Smart
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) calculate kw-hrs from amps, voltage and time?
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: calculate kw-hrs from amps, voltage and time?
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
They mention rules, but I couldn't find any rules. How can you have a
competition without any rules, (aside from Australian Football)?
The cruel reality is that without detailed safety rules, you can't get
insurance. No insurance = no track venue. No track = no race.
It will be interesting to see what safety rules Dave Cloud (and pals) come
up with. I suspect they will discover just how difficult it is to satisfy
both the competitors and the insurance companies.
If they simply "knock off" the NEDRA rules and the Electrathon America
rules, I wouldn't think there really would be much point in forming a
duplicate of the existing organizations.
At 11:48 PM 4/10/2005, you wrote:
I would have thought Roy would have put out a press release on this one to
drum up business and support. Anyway, I would really like to hear comments
from the EV List community on this new EV racing organization. To check it
out go to http://www.cloudelectric.com/generic57.html
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.5 - Release Date: 4/7/2005
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have asked someone else off list( who has a 300zx) if it is a nissan
thing but when I wired a battery to the net gain in the 300zx, the
wheels turned backwards. I need to know how to wire the netgain for
forward rotation. I know it is advanced 14 degrees, but what way? how do
I tell?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Automotive throttle position sensor ? I can say that the mitsubishi PU
had a 6K pot that mounted with 2 face screws, had only a 1/4 inch shaft
but a nice connector. I found some place on the net that sold only
throttle pots. Most including the toyyota's have a closed throttle
position switch too. (3 wire and 4 wire)
http://www.bei-tech.com/products/position_sensors/rotary.htm
http://www.bei-tech.com/products/position_sensors/rotary/hall/9902090cw.htm
http://www.ruf-electronics.com/pedal_position_sensors.htm
the TPS seem to al have 80degree rotation and the pedel sensors 30degree
rotation. Can you switch from 40 degree to 80 by eliminating the arm and
goind instead to a drum and cable? For the same cable pull different
diameter drums allow tuning the degree of operation.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, this should be online in Voltage magazine with photos soon. Had a great
time, Mark
EVS-21 Sustainable Mobility Conference in Monaco
International (Electric Vehicle Symposium)
Report copyright Mark E. Hanson April 6, 2005 www.solectrol.com
Introduction and Executive Summary:
The conference in beautiful Monaco on the Mediterranean Sea comprised of the
bringing together an eclectic (as well as electric) group of international
engineers, dignitaries and businessmen united in their cause to making EV's and
hybrids successful in the marketplace. There were quite a variety of technical
viewpoints in EV's, hybrids and fuel cells with a healthy skepticism of fuel
cells compared to when the symposium was held in the US. There were four
simultaneous tracks of seminars, so I hopped around, trying to pick the most
useful in my request to look at the latest developments in EV's and hybrids. I
also spent a fair amount of time investigating the latest technologies on the
glass enclosed Grimaldi Forum's display floor. For further and complete
symposium information see www.evs21.org .
Opening Plenary:
Pietro Menga President of AVERE, the European Association for Battery, Hybrid
and Fuel Cell Vehicles gave the opening speech for the conference. He said
that the roll of the media is important to communicate sustainable mobility.
There were 116 journalists present, 822 delegates, 109 exhibitors and 587
exhibitor passes issued. The three largest countries in attendance were 146
from France, 99 from the US and 31 from the UK. Pietro Manga stated that it's
important to preserve the environment and CO2 must be reduced to meet the Kyoto
Accord. We must reduce our 98% dependency on foreign oil and Europe has a
clean political vision for sustainability. Hydrogen may not be viable until
2020-2030 and something must be done sooner. He noted that battery vehicles
are more near term but the end user doesn't see the advantage yet. Battery and
hybrids are ready to be implemented and plug-in hybrids especially result in
increased fuel economy. Pure electrics are good for delivery of goods and
services. We should convince politicians of the usefulness of EV's.
What's New:
VW has a new diesel hybrid available for next year, presently tested in the
Golf, which will be used in the Beetle and Jetta for a 25% better fuel economy
of about 75 mpg highway. They also have engines, which work on biofuels, what
they call "Sunfuel" ethanol and biodiesel. The diesel engine will work on
biodiesel of course. www.volkswagen.com .
The Mercedes SMART car that is a popular gas and diesel vehicle here in Europe,
should be available in the US next year and gets excellent fuel economy. I was
told that it is available on the gray market by doing a google search and
importing through customs in New Jersey. (Note that due to the ballooning US
national debt that the dollar has weakened to $1US = $1.4 Euros which must be
taken into consideration during importation). It will be available next year
in electric using a Zebra battery (about 2500 cycles) but the electric version
was $30k Euros as compared to $10k Euros for the gas or diesel version. The
electric using Zebra batteries NA/NiCL (heated @ 250C) is sold under the Zytek
name. www.zytek.co.uk
The India REVA car is now being sold as the G-Wiz in England, about 1000
vehicles have been sold. The car is not as attractive as the SMART, I noticed.
www.revaindia.com
The remodeled KEWET rode nicely and the batteries are easy to replace. This is
an affordable vehicle at $10k Euros and should be available in the US next year
I was told. I spoke with Jo Espen Bjerk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.elbilnorge.no
in Oslo Norway.
Vectrix had a new electric motorcycle for $8k Euro that goes 110 km per charge
and up to 100km/hr on NiMh batteries. www.vectrixusa.com .
Electrovaya had some good Lithium Ion Super Polymer batteries with a 230-mile
range they claim. Gitanjeli DasGupta the developer I spoke with at Electrovaya
can be contacted at www.electrovaya.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] . He said they are
ready to be installed in vehicles and are a prime contractor with NASA and
Microsoft for laptops. I looked at putting some of these in my EV, and they
will cost 4x my lead acid's, quite a bit less than last year. (See further
explanation in his presentation below).
A more efficient permanent magnet motor was developed at Schiller GmbH for 48V
5kw and 120V 16kw 98% efficient EV applications. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If interested in solar electric boats and electric car club's in Europe contact
the German Association of Solar Mobility email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.solarmodil.org I spoke with Roland Reichel at lunch from Germany.
(City-El's and Twike's)
EDTA had a booth there with Jennifer Watts with an invitation to join the EDTA.
They are having the Electric Drive Expo December 6-8 2005 in beautiful
Vancouver, Canada www.electricdrive.org .202-408-0774 Washington DC.
EVS-22 will be in Yokohama, Japan October 23 - 28 2006 in a scenic area.
www.evs22.org
There is also a Renewable Energy Expo scheduled in Monaco March 30 - April 2
2006 at the Grimaldi Forum again and will include wind and solar as well.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (I'll probably check out the Wind Expo in Denver in May 05'
as well).
Actia is selling a sealed DC2DC converter 190-430Vdc in 1KW with output voltage
12-15V at 75A for about $1k. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.actia.se
Nesscap displayed their Ultracapacitors that are good for acceleration when
used with batteries of fuel cells. www.nesscap.com
Honda displayed its hybrid Civic IMA vehicle and had a good explanation article
on hybrids. They also had a hybrid scooter for sale and an electric moped.
www.world.honda.com
An interesting S shaped Dolarius type windmill was displayed about 50W at 10mph
but a bit pricey at $3k. The motor was easy to service in this vertical
windmill at the base. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.windside.com
There was a cute electric car called the Maranello similar looking to the Smart
with a range of 75km with 8 gel cell batteries. www.effedi.it
Iveco had a hybrid bus available with a passenger capacity of 40 and operated
at 450V. [EMAIL PROTECTED],com phone 33 472 96 04 38
Intelligent Energy had a sport motorcycle that operated on a fuel cell that
they claimed is more efficient than others at 75% instead of 50% but I found
out it's a standard PEM design. The range is 100 miles 6kw, 48V with a 50mph
top speed and will sell for $5k as soon as they can find a manufacturer to make
their motorcycle, Harry Bradbury CEO of Intelligent Power said. He said they
also have a portable H2 generator that works off of ammonia, biodiesel or
ethanol for another $5k (when they can find a manufacturer). He claims his
process is 85% efficient instead of <70% efficient like other H2 generators.
www.intelligent-energy.com
Saft had their new Lithium-Ion battery the VLE 22-42 at 21.6V at 42ah and
weighs 8 kg. They said they still don't have indicating (water level) caps for
their Ni-Cads. www.saftbatteries.com
Toyota showed their new RX 400h SUV hybrid but was not as energy efficient as
the Prius and didn't have plug-in capability or a diesel option for improved
fuel economy. (Fords Escape hybrid was similar in this regard.) The Prius was
the best hybrid I've driven so far. (Haven't tried the VW diesel hybrid yet)
www.toyota.fr
Dana has started making fuel cell stacks and components. www.dana.com
Resort Vehicles had a couple electrics but would only go about 30mph (good for
golfing areas) and claim a 75-mile range. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Maxwell Capacitors had their usual offerings but at a reduced cost as this
technology matures. They also had balancers, which keep individual caps in a
series string from overvoltaging. They are useful for batteries and fuel cells
to take away those current peaks thus making batteries last longer.
www.maxwell.com
Ecova has some new electric solar boats available, up to 65 passengers. I rode
in one and it operated well. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The Green Car Company had some cool mini cars and trucks, the Bingo, Domino and
Hola operating at 48V with 8 x 6V golf cart batteries. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.greencompany.tv
Chrysler had its GEM 25mph golf car now available in Europe
www.gemcar.com/europe.com
If you have a "Fetish" you can get one for $450k, an electric racecar that goes
0-100km/hr in 4 seconds for about 350km www.venturi.fr
Advance DC Motors was there with their standard 7", 8" and 9" motors for car
and truck conversions. I've been using them for about 30 years and get about
100k miles on their brushes before needing maintenance. 315-434-9303 Syracuse,
NY www.adcmotors.com
Bitrode had some new battery chargers and faster chargers. I spoke with Graham
Peters at dinner. [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.bitrode.com
Technical Sessions:
Bernard Fautier, EVS-21 President spoke about available clean vehicles. He
noted that there is a renewed interest in international security for reduction
in foreign oil. He said that plug-in hybrids were tested and could be more
available. Fuel cell vehicles could be in operation if efficiency and cost can
be improved. He said that the EDTA is doing a good job of educating the public
on electric drives. (I noticed a half page on the 2nd page of the local paper
devoted to the symposium). This helped in increasing the public awareness as
people came by the "Ride and Drive" to check out all the new EV's and hybrids.
Hisashi Ishitani, EVAAP President talked about the participation in the Kyoto
treaty and said to check out www.kyotocities.com as more European manufacturers
are making their products meet these clean air and green house gas
requirements. (The US and China were the only two nations that did not sign up
for the Kyoto agreement.) He said that in this EV industry we have failed to
actively involve women.
Masatimi Takimoto, Director of Toyota Corporation noted that a responsible
company must be proactive about heading off a fuel crisis. The Toyota Prius
has done very well in the marketplace and we also have a fuel cell prototype
vehicle. The RX400 Lexus hybrid achieved good driving performance and reduced
CO2 compared to other vehicles in its class. The RX400 electric motor has
enough power to be used as the main power source. The hybrid transmission has
a CVT for seamless acceleration. The FCHV made in 02' and presently need an
infrastructure to make it viable. With fuel supplies down, we need immediate
action with hybrids, electrics & CNG vehicles. Toyota would like to see more
involvement from other carmakers, he said. "We need action today for a better
tomorrow."
Walter Schmied, president of agriculture local and regional affairs, Council of
Europe (translated with a French interpreter) called upon the world politicians
to empower the people to deal with environmental issues. He thanked the
principality of Monaco for bringing together everyone for such a good cause.
Europe is devoted to the Kyoto Treaty for the reduction of greenhouse gases.
The European bill RE 243 will help for society and commitment in
sustainability. Tax incentives, public awareness and environmental education
will help further. Particulate pollution has health problems and could be
reduced by EV use. Mass transportation in the US would help immensely.
Matthias Rabe, VW head of Corporate Research noted that we must design for
individual mobility that is sustainable. Co2, NoX, soot and HC must be
reduced. TDI hybrids (diesel) was demonstrated in the Golf to use less than 1L
per 100km. The diesel hybrid can be used with biodiesel at 1.4L for all VW
production vehicles. The golf has been used as a demo vehicle for a 25%
increase in fuel economy over the stock diesel with better acceleration. VW
has also developed a combined gas-diesel engine, which operates on "sun fuel"
biodiesel or ethanol. This reduces Co2 emissions and replaces fossil fuels.
Hydrogen must be economical for introduction and will be at least 20 years
before this might be available, he said.
Robert Durdilly, Director of EDEV (translated with a French interpreter)
asserted a common future for energy. Sustainable transportation is needed for
economic growth and social progress. Act now IS the best answer. EV's are
used in the EDF (Electric de France). Electric busses are used in 10 cities.
Zebra high-density batteries have been used. Trolleys are well adapted. He
preferred mass transit to individual use for clean vehicles and efficiency.
Poly-metal Lithium-ion batteries were liked. We need to succeed with adaptive
sales and we can only move ahead if we are working together.
Kapil Sibal with India, Minister of Science & Technology called for liberation
in the EV industry. He noted that the bottom of the oil barrel is visible.
Shell and Conoco said that we must look for alternative fuels. India and
China's oil demand is rising so we can't wait 20 years to solve this problem.
He said he drove the electric car "REVA" from India and liked it very well.
Select Technical Sessions:
Bertrand Heilbrown with EDF (Electric Transportation Division, France) talked
about a new future for electric and hybrid vehicles. France has reduced Co2 to
half from peak in 1974 and is committed to the Kyoto Agreement to decrease Co2
in the transportation sector. Lithium Ion, Zebra, Lithium Polymer have a
150-200km range which is needed. PHEV's (plug in hybrid vehicles) average 32km
or 20 miles EV range which is good for most in town driving per day. This
covers 80% of people's needs with the advantages of a full hybrid for trips and
improves full consumption. Co2 is reduced in ZEV operation. Since new
batteries are available, the PHEV can maintain all of the market (instead of
having two vehicles) and operate on biofuel (biodiesel & ethanol). We must put
effort onto available technology in order to reach the 2015 target. Renault
and Citroen don't appear to be pro-active in EV's and PHEV's.
Robert Harmsen did policy studies for the Netherlands and works for the Dutch
Energy Research Center. He noted that hydrogen must have an all-electric
inclusive road map to be competitive. The European government is funding
European hydrogen research. Air quality is a driver for electrics and not a
driver for hydrogen only. The US and China have not entered the Kyoto Treaty
and are not very ambitious about reducing Co2. We should not only look at H2
as a solution but also include more affordable technologies. A comment came
from the audience that why are we looking at H2 when the wells-to-wheel
efficiency is worse than hybrids or EV's and it costs 4x more. There is a
projected 20 year production and the inefficiencies due to the laws of physics
won't change no matter how many billions of dollars we throw at it. Then the
speaker noted that we should not be narrow minded on H2 but be inclusive of
several technologies and look at all the possibilities. We should not fight
against each other but work together to a common goal of clean air and foreign
oil reduction. He said we should be supportive of each others opinions.
Hishashi Tshitani of Keio University did a paper on Wells-to-Wheel efficiency
of fuel cells vs. hybrids vs EV's. He put up lots of graphs and charts but
didn't have any tangible answers. He said in his conclusion that PHEV's and
EV's are more efficient than fuel cell vehicles overall but didn't say by how
much.
Rafael Ben did a strategy for the transport industry in Spain for the
consortium funded hydrogen study. He said to see his complete study, check out
www.hysociety.net . He said that H2 can be generated from biodiesel, ethanol
and can be created on sight so we don't have to have a complicated
infrastructure. We need to increase energy density on board and research low
cost fuel cell vehicles. Fuel cells must be used with batteries for
acceleration peak current requirements and the fuel cell puts out a low average
charge rate. Fuel cells will be first used in portable applications (laptops),
residential, industrial and than finally in cars about 20 years down the road.
H2 can also be made from coal instead of natural gas since we have greater
supplies of coal. Renewable energy is also a choice.
Rick Ruvalo, manager of clean air program in San Francisco had his EV-1 crushed
as he noted it's been an uphill struggle with the auto manufacturers. He noted
that we need more EV's and they're too pricey. He's put in several $100k worth
of chargers and then sees the manufacturers remove EV's from their owners and
crush them. He's spent $6M annually on EV's, so there is a market here, he
added. The Honda fuel cell vehicle is nice but we need today's solutions and
don't want to get distracted by a promise for something that might not occur.
La Rochelle of France talked about electric 65 passenger pontoon boats he has
in Monte Carlo using twin 16kw motors. I rode on one and it moved along fairly
quickly with 65 folk's on board but when it got out to sea and was turned
sideways it started pitching quite a bit so we returned to port.
Salvatore Alfano from Rome, Italy talked about his electric transit bus
program. (translated) Rome bought electric taxis and 300 electric cars for
transport and delivery services. They also have electric battery buses. 30
tramways and 53 electric buses transport more than 2 million passengers
annually. Now we need more totally electric buses. They have 400 natural gas
and bio-boats (methane). They are buying another 400 electric taxis by 2006.
They want electrics not hybrids. He has 69 fast charging ports around Rome now
for charging the electric taxis. Since ICE taxis cost 1000Euros per month and
have pollution problems, the Rome government gives $700Euros per month to each
electric taxi driver as an incentive. They typically recharge in 7 hours and
carry 4 people. They are looking at fuel cell buses by Ovonic-USA but are
fairly expensive.
Mendrisio, Switzerland started a project to replace 800 of their city vehicles
to EV's following the Kyoto accord and it was a success. Now a second phase
was completed www.vel2.ch shows the data. Road taxes support the incentives on
ZEV vehicles with 100 charge stations. Pay and charge fee for reserved EV
parking places is a helpful incentive. They now have 2000 EV's in operation in
Madrisio. We need political support of EV's to be successful.
Yves Toussaint, Green Propulsion Center in Belgium talked about passenger
vehicles in Belgium and the need for plug-in hybrids. In order to further the
Kyoto goals, a combined diesel hybrid delivery van was used in a case study.
This reduced Co2, CO, HC, NOX, smoke and noise. In life cycle tests in
well-to-wheels analysis, the plug-in diesel hybrid was the best when compared
to gas, diesel, LPG and fuel cell vehicles. They built a combined
series/parallel hybrid with an AC induction 45kw motor with a 12kw generator
vector control. A 260V Li-Ion 40ah battery was used. 120kd/wh for Li-Ion and
200kg/wh for NiMh was noted. He said that <50km/hr speed electric only mode
was best and above that, full hybrid or diesel mode was best. He said the
parallel hybrid is preferred. He said a 42% well-to-wheels reduction was
realized and a 75% emissions reduction was realized over a standard diesel.
This meets the 2012 Kyoto requirements. The VW Lupo is 1/3rd the consumption
of the Toyota Prius and Kangoo vehicle is � that of the Prius. He noted that
the vehicle was the same emissions as a fuel cell vehicle but at much less cost
and can run on biodiesel.
Rene H.E. Van Doorn from Audi talked about the A2H2 fuel cell car they
produced. He said it is important to add batteries to fuel cell car for proper
acceleration performance since the fuel cell slowly charges the vehicle. The
fuel cell is 60% efficient but what's not mentioned is the required air
compressor to force the air through the cell which drops the efficiency down to
50% overall. By using a battery Audi can get by with a smaller fuel cell.
Also there is a 10sec - 2minute delay on start-up so this requires a battery.
A 63kw PEM fuel cell was used. He said it was compressed to 250 bar (about
5000 psi) for a max speed of 175km/hour with a 220km range. I asked him how
much the car would cost when in production and he wouldn't say.
S. Das Gupta from Electrovaya in Mississauga, Canada talked about his Lithium
Polymer battery that is in production and for sale. He noted that Prince
Rainer who passed away this morning and was an EV advocate. He said that with
his batteries, BEV's have a long range and are available whereas "fuel cell
vehicles are in the never-never land of the future which will always be in the
future". He noted that hybrids are not as good as ZEV's. He called his
battery "Lion Super Polymer" with 200-300wh/kg and flexible trash bag like
material that won't burn like straight Lithium Ion. His company has 85 patents
and also awards with 150 patents pending. His modular process is low cost he
said. They are selling to Microsoft for Laptop's power Pad-160 for a 16-hour
run time and can be purchased from Electrovaya. The new laptop is to be called
"The Scribbler" which is a single pad instead of a fold out two-section laptop.
They are building power systems for NASA's astronaut's backpacks with a
10-year life required. Electrovaya's batteries were tested in a GM/Suzuki
Cami and operated -40C - 60C for 1036 cycles with a 350km range with off-peak
charging. Today he has 220wh/kg and will go to 400wh/kg on the next
generation. He said his batteries are impossible to ignite and are 90%
efficient and cited a MIT study showing that battery electrics are much better
in cost and efficiency than fuel cell vehicles well to wheels. He said that
this simple solution is "disruptive technology" and upsets the present
establishment. His battery sells for $300 per Kwh in production quantities.
Engbert Spijker from Ford-Germany talked about the Escape Hybrid SUV vehicle.
He compared different levels (full, medium, mild, micro) of hybridization and
their pros and cons. For the European market according to their marketing
study, the diesel manual transmission version with it's better fuel economy and
particulate emission filter was desired. He said Americans wanted the more
fuel using gas auto transmission version. I disagreed with him, but he said I
was an anomaly from their marketing study. Their diesel Escape hybrid has a
25% reduction in Co2 levels from 95' for the European market. He noted that
the Honda operates at 144V and the Escape (licensed Toyota technology) was
288V. Both the Prius and Ford Escape are full parallel hybrids. They also
demo'd a Ford Fiesta micro-hybrid with only stop-start capability for a 6-12%
improvement in fuel economy. Door to door delivery applications showed a 21%
improvement whereas the urban driving cycle showed only a 7% improvement.
Keiji Kakizawa from Toyota showed the new 200kw hybrid transmission for their
RX-400h SUV. The Prius has an 82kw drive train/motor. Toyota added a gear
reduction for a higher speed smaller electric motor that turns at 12400 RPM's
instead of the Prius 6000 rpm's. I asked him if there was about half the MTBF
with a double speed but he said reliability/longevity was the same since they
use a higher temperature liquid cooled motor. It also has a smaller stator and
a fuel-efficient low loss design. Presently, he said the Prius is operating at
500V (not 288V as Ford claimed using the older Toyota technology) and the new
Toyota RX-400h is operating at 650V. I asked him if the goal is fuel economy,
is Toyota coming out with a diesel hybrid? He said no. They probably used a
similar marketing study.
In the closing Plenary, Gaston Maggetto had a moment of silence for Prince
Rainier for prayer. The Pope also passed away this week, which put the EVS-21
on the second page of the local paper. He noted that there were 822 delegates,
109 exhibitors and 116 journalists. There were 587 exhibitor passes issued, he
said. The outside Ride and Drive was a success showing many different types of
electric vehicles. Pietro Menga, president of AVERE noted that we need to "act
now for sustainable mobility". He cited the city of La Rochelle, which was
successful at introducing EV's. Jacques Mollard general manager of Tech
Services of La Rochelle showed electric deliveries being made by EV's. Mass
transit was very efficient with electric trains in widespread use. There were
500 delivery vehicles and 2 solar-electric boats that shuttle 65 passengers per
boat from 7am to midnight for the last 7 years. He said to visit our clean
electric city as an example to see what we are doing about the "Quality of
Life" in using EV's.
Hisashi Ishitami, professor of Keio University in Japan and EVAAP president
invited everyone to EVS22 next year in Yokohama Japan in October 06'. Shen
Xiang showed Bejing, the capital of China for the 2008 Olympics, setting a goal
to make it an electric city. He said they would have all electric busses ready
by 2008. The center of EV technology is working hard to develop these buses as
well as smaller electric vehicles. He said they are developing 4 different
types/sizes of electric buses and presently have 50k EV's running around in
Bejing, China. The buses are low-floor access design, which is also good for
the handicap people. He expects to have 1000 electric buses in operation.
Lawrence J. Oswald CEO of GEM, LLC (seams like everyone's LLC now) said that
57% of San Francisco's EV's are GEM's for city use. Rick Ruvulo, the manager
of the Clean Air Program for San Francisco talked about the various EV's he
purchases for the city. He was upset when GM crushed his EV-1. (The auto
companies with the help of the current US administration sued California's CARB
to eliminate the EV requirement which resulted in the manufacturers destroying
all their manufactured EV's). Rick said that there is an importance of
partnership and perseverance with the auto companies and the public for
successful implementation of EV's. He wants to reduce our dependence on
foreign oil (which funds terrorism) and show the US can have clean sustainable
mobility. San Francisco partnered with the people of Nepal and Kathmandu for
more than 600 EV's there running on hydro generated renewable energy. He said
more information could be obtained from www.keia.org.np .
Joon Chulpark from Hyundai-Kia Corporation mentioned the most promising EV's
using Nimh or Li-Ion with Ultracaps for acceleration with a 300km range and a
150km/hr max speed. He said there must be international partnerships for the
hydrogen economy to come to fruition. Theresa Martinet a sustainable delegate
with the PSA Group talked about an EV or plug in hybrid diesel having better
fuel economy efficiency and being cheaper than fuel cell vehicles. (This was a
reoccurring theme in several presentations).
I spoke with a Consumer Reports reporter in the lobby who said that Consumer
Reports is coming out with a Biodiesel issue in July showing how to strain used
French fry oil to run your diesel on. He uses a VW Passat for the example.
He said that diesel vehicle versions are not mentioned as much due to a low
<100-user sample that makes for noisy data. (Hopefully in the future people
will embrace these efficient technologies as oil becomes more expensive, scarce
and reduce pollution).
A little bit about Monaco from a clueless American: First, fast and food are
two words that don't go together in a French restaurant; enjoy your friends and
time spent together. I took a couple extra days to see where James Bond ran
his roadster. I went up the Middle Corniche where I heard most road scenes
were filmed, (yes there is a high Corniche road which I tried) and a low
Corniche road on this mountain cliff hugging the coast. What's really neat is
you can run for miles along the beach on "the promenade" which is a concrete
bike-run way. You can get to most everything on foot which is what I did since
the roads are too squiggly-wiggly for me. I also went over to Italy, Rome
where the "Good, Bad and the Ugly" was filmed many moons ago in the 60's,
similar scenery to the Colorado Rockies but warmer. Anyway, Monaco is a
gorgeous resort area along the Mediterranean ocean, but is a bit pricey. I
found if I added a "0" to what I thought something cost, I was fairly close.
The hiking, biking and swimming were great with crystal clear water (compared
to the US east coast anyway). The climate was like California, about 300 sunny
days a year and pleasant most of the time.
It was a great conference and I enjoyed meeting so many different people with a
common goal of making this world a better sustainable place. Many thanks to
Eteel Lawson and Isabelle Riviere and the helpful EVS-21 staff for putting on
this marvelous EV-ent.
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there are 4 bolts on the motor 2 field 2 arm , a field and a arm go together
, you will need to run a almost ( becuse of the timing it will be 3/4"off)
stright , short cable form one arm to field , . You , at this point must
have the cable crossing .
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:52 AM
Subject: Net Gain wiring
I have asked someone else off list( who has a 300zx) if it is a nissan
thing but when I wired a battery to the net gain in the 300zx, the wheels
turned backwards. I need to know how to wire the netgain for forward
rotation. I know it is advanced 14 degrees, but what way? how do I tell?
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I s'pose you'd have to determine your actual needs, i.e. wether you "need" pure
sinewave, or wheter modified will do.
But, for the same money you could have an Modified Sinewave 3600watt UPS.
That's charger and inverter in one package.
http://pcworld.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=354657/
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:00 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: 36V Inverters Re: pusher to electric
>
> I knew I'd seen this somewhere:
>
> http://www.kansaswindpower.net/Bargains.htm
> Look for the 1332 inverter. It's a big'un, 1100 watts sinewave, and priced
> accordingly at almost $900. It'll take either 32V or 36V.
>
>
>> Sure. No reason why not.
>>
>> I've taken to dragging around an old APC Backups 600 in my tractor to
>> handle the little odd power jobs. Wish I could find one that would
>> take
>> 36 volt input.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> James A. Eckman wrote:
>>> Could someone tell me if it would be possible/reasonable to use this
>>> motor and an inverter to build a cordless mower?
>>> Jim
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:24 AM
Subject: EVS-21 Report
Hi, this should be online in Voltage magazine with photos soon. Had a great
time, Mark
EVS-21 Sustainable Mobility Conference in Monaco
International (Electric Vehicle Symposium)
Report copyright Mark E. Hanson April 6, 2005 www.solectrol.com
Hi Mark;
Thanks for taking me THERE! Great reading! Glad to see the WORLD is
thinking Electric. Great countries thinking globally, to get things done.
Maybe US and China coukld join the Kyoto thing in our lifetimes??
Were are we? The USA? Feh! The guys from San Fran, who had their EV-1's
crushed? Wouldn't it have been cool for GM to have flown a few in to Monico,
and announced resuming production? Ride an' Drive. Sigh! Guess we'll be
buying our EV-s from China? Or Jerry, if we can get his act together?Or
lottsa Clunn Cars?
End of Comments Over to you.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Tripplite APS3636VR inverter/charger mentioned does look good.
Except:
1) I could never find any charging efficiency spec.
2) While AC OUT power is rated at 3.6kw, charging power rating is only
1.6kw, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-Myles, Portland, Or
> But, for the same money you could have an Modified Sinewave
> 3600watt UPS. That's charger and inverter in one package.
>
> http://pcworld.pricegrabber.com/search_getprod.php/masterid=354657/
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Bill, for clarification, this info was from the Cloud Electric site which is
owned by David's brother Steve. As David has stated on this list, he and his
brother are two separate people. If you have an interest in how Steve will
set up classes this should give you an idea of the way Steve's brain works
which will give you an idea of what the eventual rules might look like:
http://www.cloudelectric.com/generic.html?pid=74
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization
They mention rules, but I couldn't find any rules. How can you have a
competition without any rules, (aside from Australian Football)?
The cruel reality is that without detailed safety rules, you can't get
insurance. No insurance = no track venue. No track = no race.
It will be interesting to see what safety rules Dave Cloud (and pals) come
up with. I suspect they will discover just how difficult it is to satisfy
both the competitors and the insurance companies.
If they simply "knock off" the NEDRA rules and the Electrathon America
rules, I wouldn't think there really would be much point in forming a
duplicate of the existing organizations.
At 11:48 PM 4/10/2005, you wrote:
I would have thought Roy would have put out a press release on this one to
drum up business and support. Anyway, I would really like to hear comments
from the EV List community on this new EV racing organization. To check it
out go to http://www.cloudelectric.com/generic57.html
Roderick Wilde
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_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi David,
The idea was to use a 10-20 hp motor/pump attached to the drivetrain,
using solenoid driven pneumatic valves (or servo-driven pneumatic valves
for variable pressure) triggered by throttle and brake inputs.
If you set it up so that when your foot comes off the accelerator the
motor goes into braking mode, you've got regenerative braking. Vice
versa, when you step on the accelerator, it augments the motor. Leave
the brakes conventional for convenience and safety's sake. When the
tank goes empty, have a pressure sensor put the air motor into
free-wheel mode (until your foot comes off the pedal). Seems to me this
would work for gas or electric, and may actually be safer, as there
would be a more immediate deceleration when taking your foot off the
pedal. Pneumatics won't store that much energy, but IMO you don't need
huge regenerative braking capability unless you're a tractor-trailer
driver that goes through the mountains a lot.
Realistically, cost/benefit will prevent doing this, as I estimate
~$1000 for parts plus time spent installing (months at least). I spend
about that per year on fuel, and it at best would save 30% - so it would
be at least 6 years before I got the investment back, counting in the
time spent (unless gas gets up to around $4.00 a gallon... But by then
I'll have done an EV conversion...).
Best,
Dave
David Chapman wrote:
Cool, i have a couple of nice HP cylinders I have been trying to sell,
lol. Can you share how you propose to do the energy transfer in and
out of the air system?
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Narby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 9:18 PM
Subject: Compressed air for regen
Hey all,
I've been batting around various regenerative braking ideas, and
finally came to the conclusion that a compressed air braking/motor
system is probably the most efficient.
I did a search and found someone patented this in 1998 - even went so
far as to include chemistry in the holding tanks to increase
efficiency (salts that go into solution to absorb heat energy from
compression, then release it when pressure drops, thus extending the
range of the air charge). Doesn't mean you couldn't make and use one
for yourself, though.
The nice thing about a compressed air tank is that you can "recharge"
it practically infinitely, and it holds considerable energy. It also
allows simpler electric drive motors. The real question is energy
density - do compressed air tanks offer better total energy storage
than batteries? Anybody puzzled this one out?
I realize this is a bit OT, but compressed air regen could at least
supplement an EV (if it doesn't turn out to actually be superior - I
know there is an inventor in India(?) who is trying to get a
compressed air car to market.
Best,
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, There were a lot of Mercedes "Smart" cars in Monaco and I was curious if
anyone has gotten one of these 2-seaters through New Jersey customs, imported
and licensed over here. It looked like an excellent candidate for a conversion
and it looks like Zap is selling some (but I'd be a bit leery of Zap). They
will be sold in Canada by Sept, a 70mpg diesel I was told but couldn't import
from Canada (not sure why though). They were pricey over there, $10k Euros or
$14k us plus $3k crate shipping I was told by a Mercedes dealer I walked into.
Also I saw a REfocus article while there on a H2 / O vehicle where the H2 and O
are separated by electrolysis in wind or solar generation and saved in two
separate tanks and then recombined on combustion in a vehicle later. There
wasn't any discussion of this in the fuel cell talk but this would be more
efficient REfocus said.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
How do you calculate Kw-Hrs used? I have current and voltage and the time
when they were read.
I multiplied current (amps) times voltage to give me watts at that instant.
Then I multiply the time (in seconds) between two reading by the average of
the two instant watt readings (gotten by adding the two instant watt
readings together and dividing by 2). This gives me the watt-seconds for the
time between the two readings. I then add together all these readings (thank
you Excel). Final step is to divide the total by 3600000 to change to
Kw-hrs.
Does that make sense or have I missed something?
Thanks
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
that sounds right to me. assuming your sampling rate
is sufficiently fast and that you trust your data, you
should get good numbers.
to get battery kw-hrs, make sure you current and
voltage readings are from the battery side of your
controller/inverter, rather than between the
controller/inverter and motor.
~fortunat
--- ProEV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> How do you calculate Kw-Hrs used? I have current and
> voltage and the time
> when they were read.
>
> I multiplied current (amps) times voltage to give me
> watts at that instant.
> Then I multiply the time (in seconds) between two
> reading by the average of
> the two instant watt readings (gotten by adding the
> two instant watt
> readings together and dividing by 2). This gives me
> the watt-seconds for the
> time between the two readings. I then add together
> all these readings (thank
> you Excel). Final step is to divide the total by
> 3600000 to change to
> Kw-hrs.
>
> Does that make sense or have I missed something?
>
> Thanks
>
> Cliff
>
> www.ProEV.com
>
>
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
