EV Digest 4270
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 36V Inverters Re: pusher to electric
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) re: Better Meter, was Meter or Charge?
by Richard Marcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Looking for an odd EV part
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: NEVRA, comments on new race organization
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: calculate kw-hrs from amps, voltage and time?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Gauge Specs
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Looking for an odd EV part
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Gauge Specs
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Gauge Specs
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Gauge Specs
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Vancouver Elec Vehicle Assn EVent June 11, bring dead ebike batteries
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization, press releases
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: EVS-21 Report
by "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Alternate motor config for 300zx
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization, press releases
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) ADC 9" temp sensor (was Re: Gauge Specs)
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Compressed air for regen
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
2) While AC OUT power is rated at 3.6kw, charging power rating is only
1.6kw, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
1.6kw is nothing to sneeze at honestly. The elec-trak charger puts out
about a kw (measured at the wall with a P3 meter) so this would be
better than what's onboard. PLus it's programmible, smart, and all that
sort of stuff.
I'm thinking about getting one unless someone has a rotary converter for
sale. 3.6kw is enough to run the house for awhile.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why would you want to measure the charging current
when you really want is the AC current going into the
charger?
I am using a clamp AC current meter similar to these
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=clamp+ac+current+meter
And, since most of these meters uses a 9V battery that
would run down if you leave it on all the time, I am
using a universal input 9V power supply to power it.
This way the meter is on when I am charging (the only
time I need to read it anyway). And, it works on 110V
or 220V.
Ed Ang
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a cheap $20 DMM I want to use to measure the
> charge current
>
> **roughly** from the PFC-30 charger. This is so I
> can leave the meter in the
> car so I can set the charge current when I am
> "borrowing" 110V power from
> shopping malls and friend's places.
>
> However when I connect the cheap meter to the
> 50A-50mV shunt, the meter
> scrambles all over the place. I was told that this
> is because the meter is
> an averaging meter and the PFC has a hi-frequency AC
> component. Of course
> the Fluke meter reads OK.
>
> Can I connect a capacitor between the lines which
> would smooth out the
> current? What would be an appropriate value? I am
> scared to hook up the
> scope as the shunt is on the wrong side of 370
> volts, and I do not want to
> blow the scope to bits...
>
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Richard Marcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:45:55 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Richard Marcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Better Meter, was Meter or Charge? BAD BAD
> BAD
> To: [email protected]
>
> Hi all
>
> Sorry to be a pain -- I will get this down yet.
>
> A new problem (BAD BAD BAD): I have new Trojan 145s
> and a 72v pack. The terminals are APWs and wires
> are
> to the LPTs. On the way home (at ~40mph, ~300a)
> there
> was a pop as the top of one of the LPTs came off.
> The rest of the wires didn't seem real hot, but that
> one sure did. FYI: This was day 3 taking it to work
> (no big condition changes)
>
> So, the sum of my problems: a SOC meter (as pointed
> out really a voltmeter) reading close to 80% when
> charged and plugged in, but immediately 40% when
> unplugged. A strong acid smell (lemons not eggs).
> Heating up while charging. An alarm indicator once
> while charging (though not since); A terminal
> meltdown.
>
> Before the meltdown I got some numbers from just the
> dash guages while driving: 20mph: SOM=20% when
> accelerating, 40% at rest; ammeter=~200. 45 mph:
> SOM=~10% when accelerating, 40% at rest;
> ammeter=250-300. I didn't want to throw it on the
> charger without feedback first.
>
> New Hypothesis: could all of my problems be caused
> by
> the need for heavier guage wire? If so, what should
> the minimum guage be? Any other thoughts?
>
> thanks again!
> Richard
>
> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:30:02 -0500
> To:[email protected]
> From:"Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Meter or Charge?
>
> Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to
> Yahoo!
> Briefcase ]
>
> Have you checked to see if the state of charge meter
> is the correct one
> for
> the pack voltage? For example, if it is speced for
> 120 Volts and
> installed
> in a 96 Volt EV, it will never read 100%. It is
> just
> an expanded scale
> voltmeter, it doesn't "know" better.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at:
> http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at:
> http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken Trough wrote:
> I am consulting for a small EV manufacturer and they are looking
> to find a 5k linear taper potentiometer with a 40 degree wipe.
Do you literally need a potentiometer (i.e. a 3-terminal device) with a
40-degree rotation? Such a part would go from 0-5k between center tap
and one end, and 5k-0 between center tap and the other end.
> Curtis provided one for the specific controller that Curtis is
> modding for this manufacturer
Curtis normally supplies 2-wire devices (rheostats), not potentiometers.
It's basically a 15k 270 degree rotation potentiometer with the far end
terminal ignored (only 2 wires used), and they only rotate it 90 degrees
so the resistance changes from 0-5k.
But, I must say they use REALLY cheap junky pots! It's a $1 pot in a
fancy $30 box. You get what you pay for. Lots of people have had
reliability problems with these pots.
> ...but the unit provided is much too large for their needs.
> The manufacturer is looking for something small, but not micro.
> The potentiometer they are replacing has a body with a 5/8"
> diameter by 3/8" thick with a shaft extending out approx 5/8"
> from the face of the pot. They'd like for the new part to be
> this size or as close to it as possible to fit into the existing
> hardware.
Talk to any of the major potentiometer manufacturers; they all have
parts that will work. DO NOT BUY CHEAP! You will regret it! It's easy to
buy pots for under $1, but they will be absolute horrors. The will wear
out in just a few hundred rotational cycles, the bearings are trash, and
they aren't sealed so dirt and water will get inside.
There are special pots built for applications that require long life and
frequent rotation. 99% of the pots on the market are NOT built for this.
I've used the old Allen Bradley type AB pots when I needed something
reliable. However, they cost $10 each, and are about 1.5" in diameter.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You missed the point. I already own the meters. The shunt is already
installed. I want to leave these meters permanently in the car.
Why would I spend more money on another meter if I can get these to work?
However when I connect the cheap meter to the 50A-50mV shunt, the
meter scrambles all over the place. I was told that this is because
the meter is an averaging meter and the PFC has a hi-frequency AC
component. Of course the Fluke meter reads OK.
Can I connect a capacitor between the lines which would smooth out the
current? What would be an appropriate value? I am scared to hook up
the scope as the shunt is on the wrong side of 370 volts, and I do not
want to blow the scope to bits...
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Edward Ang
Sent: April 11, 2005 9:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
Why would you want to measure the charging current when you really want is
the AC current going into the charger?
I am using a clamp AC current meter similar to these
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=clamp+ac+current+meter
And, since most of these meters uses a 9V battery that would run down if you
leave it on all the time, I am using a universal input 9V power supply to
power it.
This way the meter is on when I am charging (the only time I need to read it
anyway). And, it works on 110V or 220V.
Ed Ang
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a cheap $20 DMM I want to use to measure the charge current
>
> **roughly** from the PFC-30 charger. This is so I can leave the meter
> in the car so I can set the charge current when I am "borrowing" 110V
> power from shopping malls and friend's places.
>
> However when I connect the cheap meter to the 50A-50mV shunt, the
> meter scrambles all over the place. I was told that this is because
> the meter is an averaging meter and the PFC has a hi-frequency AC
> component. Of course the Fluke meter reads OK.
>
> Can I connect a capacitor between the lines which would smooth out the
> current? What would be an appropriate value? I am scared to hook up
> the scope as the shunt is on the wrong side of 370 volts, and I do not
> want to blow the scope to bits...
>
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Wilde offered:
> If you have an interest in how Steve will set up classes this should give
> you an idea of the way Steve's brain works which will give you an idea
> of what the eventual rules might look like:
> http://www.cloudelectric.com/generic.html?pid=74
Interesting, but a waste of my time...
The engineer in me cringes at all the mixing of power with energy, and
stating Ah capacity is proportional to weight (as if all batteries are the
same chemistry and voltage).
The claim is made that basing race classes on battery weight makes most
sense, will make it fairer for those without the deep pockets and that
despite the chemistry differences between PbA, NiX and LiX, the battery
manufacturers will somehow feel forced to improve their batteries so that
their batteries win these competitions----do we really think racing is
formost in their mind?
As if PbA or NiMH batteries will keep up with LiX batteries in terms of
energy density (now) and even power density in the future...
MOST amusing to me is the assertion that battery classifications by weight
will make fairer for the little guy, meanwhile not explaining or recognizing
that the little guy won't be able to afford the best batteries to achieve
the highest power and energy densities. The result is the same: deep
pockets win.
BETTER would be to go with the INTENT of a battery weight class structure
and base the classes on the TOTAL RATED onboard energy combined with vehicle
type and weight classifications. There are lots of different ways to
attempt to achieve "fairness" I'm sure. Maybe the best being cost or
investment---akin to the earlier mentioned claimer method...
But "best" for whom?
This comes down to goals and assumptions.
And not everyone will even agree on these---and that leads to the wildely
different ideas for fairness in racing.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or. (I'm no racer...)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Connect a capacitor in parallel to the meter inputs, but connect a
resistor in series from the shunt to form a low pas filter.
Connecting a cap in parallel to the shunt is pointless as the shunt
is so small resistance that the time constant is still way too short
to filter out any noise.
shunt
---o--===----o----
| |
>R |
> |
| |
o---||----o
| |
+--[ ]----+
your cheap
voltmeter
R depends on the input resistance of the voltmeter
and how much do you want to smooth the output without
loosing reaction to dynamic overall changes.
Start with 10k and 47uF cap and see.
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
You missed the point. I already own the meters. The shunt is already
installed. I want to leave these meters permanently in the car.
Why would I spend more money on another meter if I can get these to work?
However when I connect the cheap meter to the 50A-50mV shunt, the
meter scrambles all over the place. I was told that this is because
the meter is an averaging meter and the PFC has a hi-frequency AC
component. Of course the Fluke meter reads OK.
Can I connect a capacitor between the lines which would smooth out the
current? What would be an appropriate value? I am scared to hook up
the scope as the shunt is on the wrong side of 370 volts, and I do not
want to blow the scope to bits...
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Edward Ang
Sent: April 11, 2005 9:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
Why would you want to measure the charging current when you really want is
the AC current going into the charger?
I am using a clamp AC current meter similar to these
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=clamp+ac+current+meter
And, since most of these meters uses a 9V battery that would run down if you
leave it on all the time, I am using a universal input 9V power supply to
power it.
This way the meter is on when I am charging (the only time I need to read it
anyway). And, it works on 110V or 220V.
Ed Ang
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have a cheap $20 DMM I want to use to measure the charge current
**roughly** from the PFC-30 charger. This is so I can leave the meter
in the car so I can set the charge current when I am "borrowing" 110V
power from shopping malls and friend's places.
However when I connect the cheap meter to the 50A-50mV shunt, the
meter scrambles all over the place. I was told that this is because
the meter is an averaging meter and the PFC has a hi-frequency AC
component. Of course the Fluke meter reads OK.
Can I connect a capacitor between the lines which would smooth out the
current? What would be an appropriate value? I am scared to hook up
the scope as the shunt is on the wrong side of 370 volts, and I do not
want to blow the scope to bits...
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Victor, I will give it a shot.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: April 11, 2005 10:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
Connect a capacitor in parallel to the meter inputs, but connect a resistor
in series from the shunt to form a low pas filter.
Connecting a cap in parallel to the shunt is pointless as the shunt is so
small resistance that the time constant is still way too short to filter out
any noise.
shunt
---o--===----o----
| |
>R |
> |
| |
o---||----o
| |
+--[ ]----+
your cheap
voltmeter
R depends on the input resistance of the voltmeter and how much do you want
to smooth the output without loosing reaction to dynamic overall changes.
Start with 10k and 47uF cap and see.
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
> You missed the point. I already own the meters. The shunt is already
> installed. I want to leave these meters permanently in the car.
>
> Why would I spend more money on another meter if I can get these to work?
>
> However when I connect the cheap meter to the 50A-50mV shunt, the
> meter scrambles all over the place. I was told that this is because
> the meter is an averaging meter and the PFC has a hi-frequency AC
> component. Of course the Fluke meter reads OK.
>
> Can I connect a capacitor between the lines which would smooth out the
> current? What would be an appropriate value? I am scared to hook up
> the scope as the shunt is on the wrong side of 370 volts, and I do not
> want to blow the scope to bits...
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Edward Ang
> Sent: April 11, 2005 9:52 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Using a Cheap DMM to measure charge current
>
> Why would you want to measure the charging current when you really
> want is the AC current going into the charger?
>
> I am using a clamp AC current meter similar to these
> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=clamp+ac+current+meter
>
> And, since most of these meters uses a 9V battery that would run down
> if you leave it on all the time, I am using a universal input 9V power
> supply to power it.
> This way the meter is on when I am charging (the only time I need to
> read it anyway). And, it works on 110V or 220V.
>
> Ed Ang
>
> --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>I have a cheap $20 DMM I want to use to measure the charge current
>>
>>**roughly** from the PFC-30 charger. This is so I can leave the meter
>>in the car so I can set the charge current when I am "borrowing" 110V
>>power from shopping malls and friend's places.
>>
>>However when I connect the cheap meter to the 50A-50mV shunt, the
>>meter scrambles all over the place. I was told that this is because
>>the meter is an averaging meter and the PFC has a hi-frequency AC
>>component. Of course the Fluke meter reads OK.
>>
>>Can I connect a capacitor between the lines which would smooth out the
>>current? What would be an appropriate value? I am scared to hook up
>>the scope as the shunt is on the wrong side of 370 volts, and I do not
>>want to blow the scope to bits...
>>
>>Don
>>
>>Victoria, BC, Canada
>>
>>See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
>>www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Make Yahoo! your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure that's one way, or you could buy a KWH meter.
The E-meter/Link-10 does this for DC and for AC you can get one rated for
110V @ upto 15A for $17 (LaCrosse)
or one that measures power factor too for $31 (Kill A Watt):
http://www.theenergyalternative.com/energy_efficient_products/index.html?category=67
I've heard that the Kill A watt is ok and either one is probably better
than trying to do it manually.
Note: For AC you can also buy a standard WH meter like the one on the side
of your house. Your power company might sell them (used) or you can buy
them on Ebay.
> Hi Everyone,
>
> How do you calculate Kw-Hrs used? I have current and voltage and the time
> when they were read.
>
> I multiplied current (amps) times voltage to give me watts at that
> instant.
> Then I multiply the time (in seconds) between two reading by the average
> of
> the two instant watt readings (gotten by adding the two instant watt
> readings together and dividing by 2). This gives me the watt-seconds for
> the
> time between the two readings. I then add together all these readings
> (thank
> you Excel). Final step is to divide the total by 3600000 to change to
> Kw-hrs.
>
> Does that make sense or have I missed something?
>
> Thanks
>
> Cliff
>
> www.ProEV.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I would have thought Roy would have put out a press release on this one to
drum up business and support.
Dude... I wouldn't, but you sure did :^D
I don't have to agree with everything my employer does in order to work
there. (you outta know that Rod).
NEVRA has _no_ members, and... AFAIK, there is no one interested in joining.
I thought I had already made this clear to you Rod. I don't believe that
even Steve Cloud takes this proposed organization very seriously.
Here! I will do a press release for Roderick, (since he hasn't mentioned it
himself).
-EV Parts will be participating in the annual Port Townsend Earth Day
celebrations April 23, their wide variety of EVs will be on display,
Roderick and Father Time will be there to answer questions and promote EV
technology-
There ya go... a press release :^D
Bill Dube' wrote:
If they simply "knock off" the NEDRA rules and the Electrathon America
rules, I wouldn't think there really would be much point in forming a
duplicate of the existing organizations.
My feeling exactly Bill, I personally don't believe NEVRA has a reason to
exist.
(except maybe to rub Roderick the wrong way :-)
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Connect a capacitor in parallel to the meter inputs, but connect a
> resistor in series from the shunt to form a low pass filter.
>
> Connecting a cap in parallel to the shunt is pointless as the shunt
> is so small resistance that the time constant is still way too short
> to filter out any noise.
>
> shunt
> ---o---===---o---
> | |
> >R |
> > |
> | |
> o---||----o
> | |
> +--[ ]----+
> your cheap
> voltmeter
I agree; this will help a lot. But the shunt produces very little
voltage (like 0.05v at 500 amps). It is hard to find a voltmeter that is
accurate with such a small voltage. Adding a series resistor makes this
problem worse.
I would improve on this circuit by replacing the resistor with an
inductor. I'd use a common-mode inductor (two coils on a common core;
looks like a transformer). Wire a coil in series with each shunt lead.
You can scavenge one from a little switching power supply.
shunt
---o---====---o---
.|__ __|
_| || |_ common-mode choke
__| || |__ . orient polarity dots as shown
| |
+----||----+
|capacitor |
| |
+----[ ]---+
your cheap
voltmeter
Its inductance works with the capacitor to block noise, but it has
negligible resistance and so won't affect the voltmeter reading (you'll
have essentially the full 50mv at the meter).
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John W. asked me to forward this to the list.
Hello to All,
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I would have thought Roy would have put out a press release on this one to
drum up business and support. Anyway, I would really like to hear comments
from the EV List community on this new EV racing organization. To check it
out go to http://www.cloudelectric.com/generic57.html
Roderick Wilde
NEVRA's stated purpose "Showcase the Advancement and Potential of Electric
Vehicles as a Viable Alternative Powered Vehicle" accompanied by a photo of
a rolling science project type 3 wheeled machine with a clear view of one of
its bicycle tires, for me and I think most all of the people they seem to
want to attract, is a glaring example of how misled these guys are. I don't
know of a single person who currently drives an SUV or Lexus or
Miata or Minivan or Ford F150, who would look at a Cloud inspired 3 wheeled
composite cockroach on bicycle tires and be influenced to say, "Yeah, I need
one of those, that's what everyone should be driving to work!"
NEDRA on the other hand, recognizes that vehicles that look like other
vehicles on the road, and, that pass the same stringent guidelines for
safety and
structural integrity imposed by the NHRA, are the way to get people to
rethinking electric
vehicles. When they see Otmar's 914 Porsche blow off a 5 ohh Mustang, they
scratch their heads and say, "Man, I had no idea an electric car could
perform that way!" When they see Bob Salem's electric VW pickup run 90 mph
in a 1/4 mile, they are blown away and start thinking about how, if a guy
could put something like that together in his garage, then maybe they could,
too.
These same people watching electrathon bicylesque contraptions whir around
at 40 mph usually come away laughing and thinking the same old thing about
EVs...slow, weird, dangerous, and so far from mainstream as to be an oddity.
Is this what we want others to continue to think about electric vehicles?
It seems that after years of whining about how NEDRA's voltage classes are
unfair, and after seeing how certain vehicles deemed unsafe are banned from
running on NHRA tracks (vehicles like electrathon types), they've finally
gone off to start their own organization. I wish them well.
In the mean time.....this year's NEDRA races will see some spectacular
times and speeds at the NHRA tracks around the country. I for one, will have
two vehicles dicing it out with the muscle cars and high powered rice
burners. There will be more exciting details announced this Friday, so stay
tuned.
Just my two cents worth....
See Ya.....John Wayland
one of NEDRA's founding fathers
White Zombie, world's quickest and fastest street legal EV (always driven
to the track and
heading for low 12's @ 110+ mph)
Purple Phaze minitruck ...13" hot rod variable timed motor, 1000+ ft. lbs.
torque, drag
slicks, and wheel stands coming soon.
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--- Begin Message ---
Since getting the dashboard out of my car is such a job, I was thinking
about trying to repurpose some of the gauges in there (like the fuel gauge
and the water temp gauge), perhaps for tracking the temperature in my two
battery boxes, or perhaps for something else. I've got the Factory Service
Manual for my car (1993 Geo Metro), but it doesn't give details about how
the gauges work: current range for full vs. empty, etc. Where do I go to
find this kind of info?
Bill Dennis
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How about something like the one in this picture for example?
http://www.johnsmustang.com/Catalog/3477/
About $30 or less at an autoparts store if you want something to
test/play with. The 89-93 model looks like the one in the picture.
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Why was the Las vegas such a bust other then the wind. I would lke to
see a race in southern California. Most spectators came from vegas and
california! Will there be a replacement race for the Vegas cancelation ?
Larry Cronk 72
Datsun ELEC TK
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--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of which, are the two wires coming out of an ADC 9" a temp probe? Is
there a way to hook
these up to the temp gauge in the dash?
Dave (not an EE) Cover
--- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Since getting the dashboard out of my car is such a job, I was thinking
> about trying to repurpose some of the gauges in there (like the fuel gauge
> and the water temp gauge), perhaps for tracking the temperature in my two
> battery boxes, or perhaps for something else. I've got the Factory Service
> Manual for my car (1993 Geo Metro), but it doesn't give details about how
> the gauges work: current range for full vs. empty, etc. Where do I go to
> find this kind of info?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Temp switch I think. At least on all the motors I have ever had.
Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Speaking of which, are the two wires
coming out of an ADC 9" a temp probe? Is there a way to hook
these up to the temp gauge in the dash?
Dave (not an EE) Cover
--- Bill Dennis wrote:
>
> Since getting the dashboard out of my car is such a job, I was thinking
> about trying to repurpose some of the gauges in there (like the fuel gauge
> and the water temp gauge), perhaps for tracking the temperature in my two
> battery boxes, or perhaps for something else. I've got the Factory Service
> Manual for my car (1993 Geo Metro), but it doesn't give details about how
> the gauges work: current range for full vs. empty, etc. Where do I go to
> find this kind of info?
>
> Bill Dennis
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Speaking of which, are the two wires coming out of an ADC 9"
> a temp probe? Is there a way to hook these up to the temp
> gauge in the dash?
Sort of. The wires connect to a temperature switch, which could be used
to drive an idiot light, however, conventional wisdom is that by the
time this switch closes, it is mostly advising you that you have just
fried your motor, rather than warning that it is getting hot.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Ok. I'll bite. What is the technique? Will it work with larger batteries?
Vancouver Elec Vehicle Assn EVent June 11, bring dead ebike batteries
Hundreds of electric vehicles, including automobiles, neighborhood
electric vehicles, e-bikes, e-scooters, e-skateboards and
other "green machines" will be shown on June 11th, Saturday. See
WWW.VEVA.BC.CA for details.
High schools from all over Canada will be racing their 1HP e-carts
on the track, which is used for the Molson Indy, too.
If you're going to VEVA's 9th annual electrathon and electric
bike/car fest, please bring your dead/weak Hawker/Odyssey/Genesis
batteries (but no larger than 18Amp.Hr.) and drop them off at the
Greenwit.com ("E-Ride") tent. These "dead" batteries will be revived.
Even Hawkers that are down to 3 volts have been successfully revived
and have more than 100% of the factory rating, after revival.
Be aware that even if you are not going, you can sell your used
Hawkers in eBay, see "Want It Now" reverse-auction listings.
Want to Divorce-Your-Car, seriously? First, read the book by Ms.
Alvord. The latest edition has great tips on electric bikes and
scooter. You might also want to know that, if you have an electric
bicycle/scooter, a method has been developed in Vancouver to allow
a 15-minute "fast charge", at a cost of under $300. With such fast
charges, your electric bike or scooter becomes a "commuting" or even
a "touring" vehicle! Do a search on eBay listings.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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Roy, I do not know where you got your information or for that matter why you
would think you could put out a press release for EV Parts. EV Parts will
definitely NOT be participating in this years Earth Day event due to the
anti EV and environmental nature of the Port Townsend government. I do not
want to support anything that this government can use to hide their true
nature. It is also the reason I moved my company out of there. If you want
to see just a hint of some of the troubles we have had just with electric
board scooters then check out my new column on "V is for Voltage"
www.visforvoltage.com titled "Rod's Rants" or for even more details of
encounters with the law go to www.evawareness.com. You should be able to
tell from my column how restrained I am on this list.
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: NEVRA, comments on new race organization
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I would have thought Roy would have put out a press release on this one to
drum up business and support.
Dude... I wouldn't, but you sure did :^D
I don't have to agree with everything my employer does in order to work
there. (you outta know that Rod).
NEVRA has _no_ members, and... AFAIK, there is no one interested in
joining.
I thought I had already made this clear to you Rod. I don't believe that
even Steve Cloud takes this proposed organization very seriously.
Here! I will do a press release for Roderick, (since he hasn't mentioned
it himself).
-EV Parts will be participating in the annual Port Townsend Earth Day
celebrations April 23, their wide variety of EVs will be on display,
Roderick and Father Time will be there to answer questions and promote EV
technology-
There ya go... a press release :^D
Bill Dube' wrote:
If they simply "knock off" the NEDRA rules and the Electrathon America
rules, I wouldn't think there really would be much point in forming a
duplicate of the existing organizations.
My feeling exactly Bill, I personally don't believe NEVRA has a reason to
exist.
(except maybe to rub Roderick the wrong way :-)
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
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--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi, this should be online in Voltage magazine with photos soon.
Mark -- thanks for this, wish I coulda been there.
Any info on Rasertech's demo motor? I'm a bit more than
skeptical about that whole company, but would appreciate any info.
Also:
>He said they are ready to be installed in vehicles and are a prime
>contractor with NASA and Microsoft for laptops. I looked at putting
>some of these in my EV, and they will cost 4x my lead acid's, quite
>a bit less than last year. (See further explanation in his
>presentation below).
In production quantity, they're assuming the cost of the batteries
go down by a factor of ten. I wonder what quantity that is?
Right now, their 160wh battery, which is the largest I see on their
website, costs $450, so figure about $3k per kwh. Ouch.
I see no charge rates documented, either.
The battery design may have a 220wh/kg cell, but the 160wh battery
they're selling is a little over a kg....
Anyway, I have an email out, we'll see if I get a response.
-Dave
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I am sure 2 - 8" ers next to each other along with a box like otmar has
only layed on it's side would fit.
then all batteries up front and behind the seat.
The question is how are you going to hook it up to the rear end? Even
though the Z is IRS, the pumpkin still wants to dance around in the back
under acceleration. You'd either have to build an extra cage to tie the
pumpkin down and hope that doesn't break the mounts, or run a really short
slip shaft with universals at both ends and hope the drive angles don't get
too far out of line.
David Thompson
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--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
EV Parts will definitely NOT be participating in this years Earth Day event
due to the
anti EV and environmental nature of the Port Townsend government.
OK... I will concede that the info I got on this from FT was incomplete at
best.
So... no Earth Day EVent anywhere for EV Parts?
You should be able to tell from my column how restrained I am on this list.
I would agree that it is better than having to "be restrained" Rod. :^D
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The wires go to a temperature activated switch, so you can set it up to
activate an "idiot light". However, if memory serves me, it is a
normally closed switch, so you need to add something (like a small
relay) to invert the signal to make the light go on (rather than off)
when it gets hot.
Also be aware that it responds very slowly... if you are on a long
not-so-steep hill it might trip in time to tell you to take a break. The
drag racer types talk of putting temp sensors in the brushes for faster
feedback when really trying to push the motors to the limit.
Dave Cover wrote:
Speaking of which, are the two wires coming out of an ADC 9" a temp probe? Is
there a way to hook
these up to the temp gauge in the dash?
Dave (not an EE) Cover
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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Dave Narby wrote:
> I've been batting around various regenerative braking ideas, and
> finally came to the conclusion that a compressed air braking/motor
> system is probably the most efficient.
MOST efficient? I would think that a compressed air system would be the
LEAST efficient option.
A big problem with air (or any gas) is that it gets hot when compressed,
and cools when it expands. When you store the hot compressed air in a
pressure tank, the tank heats up and the air cools. The cooler air loses
pressure, which represents an energy loss. The tank will gradually cool
back down to ambient temperauture, causing a further loss of pressure
and further energy losses.
More energy is lost when you use the compressed air. As it expands, it
cools. The air motor or whatever is in the path is chilled, which uses
energy that would have otherwise been producing mechanical work. The
cooling also lowers the pressure of the air further, losing more energy.
Compressed air systems are likely to lose 50% of the energy during
compression, and another 50% of what's left on expansion. That only
gives you back 25% of the energy you put in.
In contrast, motor-generator-battery systems give you back about half of
the energy you put in. Motor-generator-supercapacitor systems might do a
little better. Flywheel systems are better yet for short term storage;
they can return 70-80% of the energy put in if you don't try to store
the energy for very long. Plain old mechanical springs can give you
80-90%.
> I did a search and found someone patented this in 1998
Compressed air systems have been around for well over 100 years. Like
electric motors, it's hard to come up with something that hasn't already
been done.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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