EV Digest 4281
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Hybrid slam article on Autobytel
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: bus bars versus wire - was RE: Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Watt to amp to volt conversions & why they aren't the same.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Vas: Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: bus bars
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Hydraulic Hybrids
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Daihatsu Charade Meltdown
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Hydraulic Hybrids
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: article: Jay Leno to own America's First Lithium iCeL (TM)Powered
"R-Car"Stuff
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: bus bars
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Independent rear suspension
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: bus bars
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC Motor Timing
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Genset
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Independent rear suspension
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: bus bars
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Hydraulic Hybrids
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) AIR Lab Battery Tester Released
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Watt to amp to volt conversions & why they aren't the same.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Post ww II elec 'car'
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Post ww II elec 'car'
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Independent rear suspension
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: DC Motor Timing
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Genset- and sepex on golf carts
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Genset- and sepex on golf carts
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Nick Austin wrote:
Speaking of which, are there any examples of converted Insights? That
would be an interesting thing to see.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/461.html
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I look at that picture the lid of that box seems to be a holddown for all
the batteries and from the side they are also solidly held in place just like
the cells in a 6 or 12 volt battery.
So it's really just a big battery you can replace cells from.
If your batteries/cells can move around alot the solid bus bars stress against
the post to try to hold the batteries together. Make it so the batteries don't
move in relation to eachother and you remove that stress?
Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I was thinking about the connectors for the Saft BB-600's (that I never got....
;-)), we were at one point talking about making them out of a flat stamping. If
you go to Philippe's page
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Aprilia%20Eproject%20001.jpg
you see them as solid flat connectors, no bends, no movement possible. And
these are in aircraft which will be moving, vibrating etc.
Is it that the saft connectors are loose enough in the plastic case, forgiving
enough, so that movement does not matter? Or are the individual batteries loose
enough in their containment pack so that they can move and the posts are not
affected?
Or is our worry about vibration not significant enough even with our plastic
case lead acid batteries to be concerned with?
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> Joe Smalley wrote:
> > Watts = Volts x Amps is always true.
> > The problem is how you measure them.
>
> How about in this example: 12 volt DC system. How many amps does a 35
> watt headlight pull?
That's a trick question, too. The obvious answer is 35w / 12v = 2.92
amps. But it is wrong!
First, because a "12v" headlight is actually designed for a higher
voltage. 12.8v is more standard; at that voltage it draws 35w / 12.8v =
2.73 amps.
But that's wrong too, because the car's actual electrical system will
apply yet a different voltage. The alternator regulates at something
around 13.8-14.2v, and the voltaget that reaches the headlight varies
depending on the wire size and length, how many connectors and switches
are in the path, etc.
There are still other factors that alter things. So, the best you can
say is that a 35w headlight draws "about 2.5 to 3.0 amps".
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> These folks have a pretty good price on orange cable (as well as red,
> black, blue, green, & yellow):
> http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--4.html
The price is good, and they at least list orange (though say it's not
stocked). Has anyone ordered any from them (any color) to see if this is
UL listed, or just unmarked untested imported stuff?
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Out of curiosity, what is the best way to connect bus bars to EV
> batteries? I'm thinking that the easiest way would be to use
> automotive terminals, drill a hole in the ends of the bus bar,
> and slip the bus bar over the bolt in a terminal clamp that
> tightens it down. However, that would probably loosen up over
> time.
"Best" depends on your criteria. Easiest? Cheapest? Highest current
capability? Most reliable?
Easiest: Buy batteries with "universal" terminals which have a 5/16"
stud. Drill 5/16" holes in the ends of your buss bars, drop them on the
studs, and tighten the nuts. Drawbacks: Only good for relatively low
currents, and will loosen over time (stud creeps out of the lead).
Cheapest: Buy batteries with "L" or other terminals that have a flat
spot with a hole thru it. Bolt the buss bars to it with a bolt and nut.
Drawbacks: Better than the above, but still has problems at high
currents and creep.
Highest current capacity: Buy batteries with automotive posts. Use a
solid copper terminal. Bolt and solder dip the buss bar to the terminal,
then bolt the terminal to the battery post. Drawback: Labor intensive.
Depends on having a solder pot or being good at soldering.
Most reliable: Cut a hole in the buss bar that matches the battery
terminal (automotive post is the easiest, because the buss bar hole is
round). Dip the buss bar in lead to completely coat it. Place the buss
bar on the battery terminals, and weld them with a torch (just takes a
quick pass of the torch to melt the post and fuse it to the lead-coated
buss bar). Drawbacks: Requires practice and a bit of finesse. Have to
cut the buss bar to change a battery. But they Will Not Fail (this is
how it's done for large industrial batteries)!
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> For a lightweight, front-wheel-drive car, do you think there would
> be enough power if you put the hydraulic motors on the rear wheels
> only and left the ICE connected to the front?
I am thinking of *exactly* this! I have my EV for around-town driving.
My wife drives a Toyota Prius hybrid, and loves it for its high gas
mileage. We also have a VW Eurovan, for the heavy hauling and
people-moving; but it gets terrible gas mileage. So I'm looking for ways
to make the Eurovan into a hybrid.
There's no room under the hood to add much. It's front wheel drive, so
there's no good way to attach a traction motor to drive the front
wheels. There are 4WD Eurovans, but they were never sold in the US so
parts for them are "unobtainium". At first, I thought I could import an
entire 4WD rear axle setup from Europe -- then I found that the 4WD
Eurovan setup uses a 1:1 differential, massive drive shaft, and fluid
coupler to connect it to the front axle. These parts would not be
practical to use for an electric motor drive to the rear wheels.
So, my thought is to add hydraulic motors to the rear wheels. Also add a
forklift-style motor+pump, a small battery pack, a hydraulic
accumulator, and a small hydraulic pump to the engine. Hook it all up
right and I should have a 'tribrid', with electric, hydraulic, or ICE
driving modes!
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for your info James.
I will post pics shortly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Thursday, 14 April 2005 10:57 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Daihatsu Charade Meltdown
Hi David
Comments inserted
At 04:53 PM 14/04/05 +1000, David Sharpe wrote:
>
>I lent my EV to another member (AM) for promotional purposes & for
>showing to other aspiring EV builders.
Good
>It came back in worse condition than it went.
Not so good
>The EV has batteries <snip> There are three parallel strings of
Panasonic
>LC-LA1233P
>(12V 33Ahr) 144V nominal, so 36 batteries <snip>
Do these batteries have individual bypass regulators? From your comment
below, I assume not. From what I have observed, individual regulators
are a
must for AGMs in order not to murder them. I am fitting them, and will
be
using them to control the charger (more below).
>What has happened is that in the approx centre of mass of the back seat
>batteries there is evidence of heat & pressure as one bat has started
>ballooning and others near it have started to melt.
Melt? That's a lot of heat. Is it centered about a post, or about a
mid-battery cell?
>AM did a 90k return trip <snip> at about 35mph causing the
>DCPS-1200 to squeal.
I believe that the squeal is it going into thermal cut-back and dropping
switching frequency, but others may (will) know.
>So what has caused this Chernobyl? Is pushing the batteries too far the
>problem?
Possibly - here is a hypothesis, that others may pick holes in. Battery
that has died is in the middle of a block - so it is hottest. So it
should
have more capacity and lower terminal voltage than its' neighbours. So
discharge is unlikely to be the immediate cause. Due to its position, it
may reach full charge significantly before the others, therefore it may
have suffered significant overcharging, reducing its' Ah, so it went
'flat'
first, reversing the 'flat' cell, and then cooking it.
>Is it the charger?
>Can the NG3 be modded to make it more suited to AGM batts?
I think not the charger, but the charging system (or lack of a system).
>Should the batts be reconfigured to 12 series groups of 3 paralleled
>batts?
By observation, rather than experience, NO, (learn from others'
mistakes).
You would have no idea that one of a paralelled group is failing until
it
pulls its buddies down. Keep them seperate and monitor them
individually.
>Should I fit bypass diodes & voltage limiting circuit to each 12V
group?
Of some kind. Lee Hart has a simple way, Rich Rudman has a complex way.
I
went the complex way, since I am 'value adding' the regulation, looking
at
the low battery latched alarm, and controlling the charger by replacing
the
'bypassing' leds with optos - first to fire knocks the (dumb) charger
back
to reduced rate, once all bypassing (latching the outputs) run on for
time.
>Should I torture AM and get the truth out of him?
Why not, just for fun! Even in a quiet vehicle, the sounds of a venting
battery would be hard to hear.
>Your comments will be gratefully apprec'td.
>David Sharpe
regards
James Massey
'78 Daihatsu 1300kg truck, dual strings of Orbital AGMs, with individual
monitors and regulators.
Not finished, can't give results yet.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> Hook it all up right and I should have a 'tribrid', with electric, hydraulic,
> or ICE
> driving modes!
Wire in a solar panel or two for good measure:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3897
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44768
Could it then be considered a 'quadbrid'?
;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Why don't we contact Mr. Leno and give him a heads up.
> I already tried to find an email address for him.
I don't have his email, but I've got an address and phone# for Leno---he's
on the Antique Electric Vehicles roster...maybe it's his agent's #...
> I know that Jay has an old EV in his stable. Perhaps someone could build
him
> a nice kit EV that really works as part of the show.
I nominate John Wayland.
It'd be neat to see Wayland on Leno's show---maybe it's just me, but I've
always thought these two guys must be related some how...
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > These folks have a pretty good price on orange cable (as
> > well as red, black, blue, green, & yellow):
> > http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--4.html
>
> The price is good, and they at least list orange (though say
> it's not stocked). Has anyone ordered any from them (any
> color) to see if this is UL listed, or just unmarked untested
> imported stuff?
It is 'Trystar' brand cable, non-UL-listed. Class K (30AWG stranding),
600V, -50 to +150C. (I haven't bought any.)
Don't bother fooling around with no-name cable. I found a local
industrial wire distributor that stocks the Super Vu-Tron and bought
what I needed cheaper than I could buy plain black or red online
(including the usual EV parts suppliers). Besides being orange, this
stuff stuff is extremely flexible, which is a definite bonus, and it is
UL-listed.
The non-UL Trystar 2/0 is $1.94/ft while I bought Super Vu-Tron 2/0 for
CDN$8.50/meter (CDN$2.59/ft, which at the time was US$1.69/ft and today
is US$2.08/ft).
I also notice that orange seems to be a standard colour for Class M
(34AWG stranding) welding cable and/or for UL-listed cable, so Super
Vu-Tron isn't the only game in town; check your local suppliers to see
if they carry some other brand of orange welding cable.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> t of curiosity, what is the best way to connect bus bars to
> EV batteries?
>
> I'm thinking that the easiest way would be to use automotive
> terminals, drill a hole in the ends of the bus bar, and slip
> the bus bar over the bolt in a terminal clamp that tightens
> it down. However, that would probably loosen up over time.
Depends what you mean by 'EV batteries' ;^>
If you mean floodeds, like 6V or 8V golf cart batteries, then order them
with either the 'L' or 'universal' terminals (Trojan nomenclature is
'LT' or 'UT', respectively). Both of these styles have flat sides and a
through hole that allow a bus bar to be bolted directly to the post.
The 'universal' post mostly round so that it can accept an automotive
clamp termonal also (this is not the automotive post with a threaded
stud sticking out of it).
Hawkers and Concordes come standard with threaded insert terminals; just
bolt your bus bar directly to the battery 'post'.
If you mean AGMs like Optimas or Orbitals, then you could use the
automotive clamp 'adapters' commonly sold in marine stores: basically a
standard cast clamp with a flat section and stud/wingnut to allow a
cable to be attached. Replace the wingnut with a nut and belleville
(sp?) washer and bolt your bus bar to the terminal. Or get some of
those bolt-on replacement automotive clamp terminals, which typically
have a strap that attaches with a pair of bolts that thread into the
cast clamp. Ditch the strap and use the pair of bolts to secure the bus
bar to the clamp. Ideally, use longer bolts so that you can attach a
nut to the far side to prevent the bolt from loosening (and could even
then use a pair of thinner bus bars, eg. 2 x 0.060" instead of 1x
0.125", one bolted against the top side of the clamp, the other against
the bottom side). The contact area between the bus bar and clamp may be
a bit less with this style terminal than the marine style, if you use a
single bus bar.
John Wayland's Red Beastie used 6VGCs with thin (1/16"?) 'S' shaped bus
bars bolted directly to the terminals (don't recall if they were
universal or L type). Rich Rudman's Goldie was using the 2-bolt style
cast automotive clamps to attach bus bars (1/8"? thick) to his YTs; not
all that pretty, but apparently quite effective. I don't know if he has
changed this system with the Orbital upgrade.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Also - on the door label it states front 1940 lbs, rear 2470 lbs, total
4045 lbs - but if you add the front and rear it equals 4410 lbs. How is
that possible?
These are maximum allowables. This means : max front axle load is 1940 lbs,
max rear axle load is 2470 lbs, and max total is 4045 lbs.
It means that you can't have the front and rear axles both at their maximums
at the same time, or you exceed the maximum total vehicle weight.
This is fairly common. I suspect that the max total is limited by brake
capacity ( just a guess).
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I agree; OEMs can do anything. They could color the wire
> plaid or polka-dotted if they wanted to. All it takes is
> money and an order for a million feet of wire.
> I can't buy "EV orange" battery cables at any of my
> suppliers. Nor can I buy orange heat-shrink tubing or orange
> UL-listed electrical tape, or orange wire loom to color the
> cables I can get.
I have no idea about its flammability or UL-listing-ness, but I have
bought both orange split loom and non-adhesive flourescent orange
'flagging' tape with the intent of using them to identify wires or
bundles of wires that are referenced to the traction pack.
I've seen production motorcycle wiring harnesses where the bundle of
wires is wrapped in non-adhesive black tape that (other than colour)
appears identical to the orange tape I've bought. A bit of ordinary
electrical tape is used at the ends to prevent the non-adhesive tape
from unravelling.
> My concern is that the auto companies created the "orange"
> standard to make it MORE difficult and expensive to build
> hobby EVs; to erect barriers that don't bother them but slow
> anyone else down. We cannot let them set the standards for
> EVs! They would create impossible-to-meet standards, to
> *prevent* anyone from doing it.
Unfortunately, I don't think "we" can prevent automakers from setting
whatever standards they wish, and in this case, the argument is akin to
locking the stable door after the horse has bolted. That is, the
automakers have already made orange a standard for identifying 'high
voltage' wiring in automobiles, and emergency personnel have been
trained to recognise this. I don't think it is likely to go away no
matter how poor an idea we may think it is, so my opinion is that we are
best to take advantage of it.
The emergency personnel are already trained to recognise orange wires as
'high voltage' or requiring special treatment/care different from
ordinary automotive 12V wiring, so by conforming to this standard we
increase our safety (and that of the rescue workers) in the event of an
accident involving our EV. There is minimal cost associated with buying
orange welding cable instead of black or red (in fact it can be
cheaper). As others have pointed out, it is quite straightforward to
label and/or colour code one's cables at its ends (which is really the
only place that matters from the point of view of avoiding connection
errors) using a bit of heatshrink and a sharpie. Or, if you want a more
professional looking label, Canadian EVs has heatshrink pre-printed with
most of the useful labels one is likely to want in their EV. I can only
think of about 2 cables in an EV where red instead of black makes sense
(pack +ve to main contactor/controller and controller M+ to motor).
I don't think I've yet seen an EV that used more than one colour of
welding cable (usually black), so arguing that making it all orange
makes it less safe than what we are doing already seems a bit pointless.
;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Easiest: Buy batteries with "universal" terminals which have a 5/16"
stud. Drill 5/16" holes in the ends of your buss bars, drop them on the
studs, and tighten the nuts. Drawbacks: Only good for relatively low
currents, and will loosen over time (stud creeps out of the lead).
This always puzzled me - solution is so simple to prevent studs from
creeping out of this kind of posts and yet no one suggested that.
You put a nut first, screw it on the stul almost all the way down,
no touching lead. Then put your bus bar or lug and then another nut from
top. Squeese the bar between the nuts as hard as thread on the stud
and in the nuts allow, it won't put any out-of-the-lead pressure on the
stud.
Of course you rely on conductivity of the stud only, but the portion
of the stud between post and the bus bar is so small that resistance
is not much more than if the bar touch the lead directly (which is
temporary anyway).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I checked brush timing on large DC motors in the Union Carbide plant I
worked in years ago. Use a sharpened wooden pencil with a knotch cut in
the wood near the eraser end to expose the graphite Connect a digital volt
meter, one lead to the exposed graphite, the other lead to the pigtail on
the
brush to be tested. With the motor at normal load and speed, let the
sharpened end of the pencil drag along the commutator just in front of the
brush and take a voltage reading. Take another reading with the pencil
dragging just behind the brush. Both readings should be the same magnitude,
but opposite polarity. Adjust the brush rigging to get the magnitudes
about the same. Wear insulated gloves if you do this on a high voltage
motor.
This would be a difficult procedure to perform on a moving vehicle's
electric motor,
but certainly possible on a fixed test stand capable of loading the motor to
operating conditions.
Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I remember seeing rich using a meter to optimize the timeing on the motors
for gone postal in the video. T think I even understand how the armature
reaction pulls the field around movint the neutral point.
I want to know how to do this with a meter, rich, rod, otmar, lee...? Is
there a procedure listed someplace?
....................................
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Seems to me that it shouldn't be that hard to rewind a series motor,
> like an ADC, into a sepex motor.
Yes; replacing the series field winding with a shunt winding is easy.
The challenge begins when you try to use it as a shunt generator or
sepex motor.
The ADC series motor has no compensating windings, because they assume
the field and armature are always in series, so their magnetic field
strengths always go up and down together. This minimizes changes in the
optimal brush position to minimize arcing.
If you weaken the field (such as by running low field current and a high
armature current), the strong armature magnetic field drags the weaker
stator field out of position. This seriously increases arcing. If you
use it as a generator where the armature current (and its magnetic
field) are reversed, you drag the field in the opposite direction, now
the brushes are out of position in the opposite direction, again
increasing arcing. The result is short brush life.
The "correct" solution for this is to add compensating windings. These
are interpoles (between the poles) and pole face windings that are in
series with the armature, and carefully placed to exactly counteract the
pole movement caused by armature reaction.
But to fit these extra windings into the motor, the field structure has
to be physically larger. A 9" motor without interpoles needs to be 10"
or 11" in diameter if you add interpoles and pole face windings.
Possible -- but a lot more work!
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another rear suspension to look at is the BMW. My shop
is across the street from a police tow yard. there is
never less than 4 or 5 of them in there at a time. I
can get the whole car for around 400 bucks. I've
noticed that most of them have rear suspension that
comes out in one piece. the 325i has coil spings
mounted on the control arms that look like they could
easily be changed outto air bags. I'm using that on my
next conversion. The beauty of the setup is all you
have to do is bolt it in. there is no suspension
geometry to worry about, it's a complete unit. I have
a rear unit out of a 745i that has its spings on the
shock towers. so for that unit I have the addition of
shock mounts to make, but all in all a very simple way
to get IRS. They have the added bonus of intergral
rubber mounts to help isolate road noise. A plus on a
vehicle as quit as an EV.
Gadget
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Also - on the door label it states front 1940 lbs,
> rear 2470 lbs, total
> >4045 lbs - but if you add the front and rear it
> equals 4410 lbs. How is
> >that possible?
> >
>
> These are maximum allowables. This means : max
> front axle load is 1940 lbs,
> max rear axle load is 2470 lbs, and max total is
> 4045 lbs.
>
> It means that you can't have the front and rear
> axles both at their maximums
> at the same time, or you exceed the maximum total
> vehicle weight.
>
> This is fairly common. I suspect that the max total
> is limited by brake
> capacity ( just a guess).
>
> Phil
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN
> Search!
>
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> There is minimal cost associated with buying orange welding cable instead of
> black or red (in fact it can be cheaper).
For me, it's an issue of aesthetics. Do I want a trunk full of orange
cables.. How will that look compared to black.. (maybe I've just
grown used to and accustomed to seeing black cables?)
> As others have pointed out, it is quite straightforward to
> label and/or colour code one's cables at its ends (which is really the
> only place that matters from the point of view of avoiding connection
> errors) using a bit of heatshrink.
I plan on using red and black heat shrink over my cable ends/terminal
connections. I'm still undecided on the terminal boots though:
http://www.quickcable.com/50.html
It's not like their ten cents each or anything.. Having the terminals
covered for safety issues is nice though in some situations..
Examples with:
http://img237.echo.cx/img237/5848/mc0328ns.jpg
http://img237.echo.cx/img237/9557/rearbatteries8dy.jpg
Without:
http://img237.echo.cx/img237/2041/waylands20zombie67yw.jpg
I guess I just like to be able to SEE my terminals. Are the bolts
tight? In one situation I can look at them all the time. The other,
I have to manually peak under each cover one by one.
How prone are those top post to making the terminal want to slide off the top?
Why in the world did "they" make the posts a tapered cylinder not just
a straight cylinder.
When the bolt is tightened, doesn't that make the terminal want to
"slide" up the post as a result? Seems like it would or could..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> If you mean floodeds, like 6V or 8V golf cart batteries, then order them
> with either the 'L' or 'universal' terminals (Trojan nomenclature is
> 'LT' or 'UT', respectively). Both of these styles have flat sides and a
> through hole that allow a bus bar to be bolted directly to the post.
> The 'universal' post mostly round so that it can accept an automotive
> clamp termonal also (this is not the automotive post with a threaded
> stud sticking out of it).
>
> Hawkers and Concordes come standard with threaded insert terminals; just
> bolt your bus bar directly to the battery 'post'.
A visual aid if it helps anyone:
http://www.trojan-battery.com/Products/TerminalsDiagram.aspx
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
when you do this please share as i also have a front
wheel driver that i would like to hybridise. i was
just going to put in a subaru rear end and connect an
old forklift motor i have but the idea of hydraulics
sounds interesting
keith
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bill Dennis wrote:
> > For a lightweight, front-wheel-drive car, do you
> think there would
> > be enough power if you put the hydraulic motors on
> the rear wheels
> > only and left the ICE connected to the front?
>
> I am thinking of *exactly* this! I have my EV for
> around-town driving.
> My wife drives a Toyota Prius hybrid, and loves it
> for its high gas
> mileage. We also have a VW Eurovan, for the heavy
> hauling and
> people-moving; but it gets terrible gas mileage. So
> I'm looking for ways
> to make the Eurovan into a hybrid.
>
> There's no room under the hood to add much. It's
> front wheel drive, so
> there's no good way to attach a traction motor to
> drive the front
> wheels. There are 4WD Eurovans, but they were never
> sold in the US so
> parts for them are "unobtainium". At first, I
> thought I could import an
> entire 4WD rear axle setup from Europe -- then I
> found that the 4WD
> Eurovan setup uses a 1:1 differential, massive drive
> shaft, and fluid
> coupler to connect it to the front axle. These parts
> would not be
> practical to use for an electric motor drive to the
> rear wheels.
>
> So, my thought is to add hydraulic motors to the
> rear wheels. Also add a
> forklift-style motor+pump, a small battery pack, a
> hydraulic
> accumulator, and a small hydraulic pump to the
> engine. Hook it all up
> right and I should have a 'tribrid', with electric,
> hydraulic, or ICE
> driving modes!
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
It is very important to know the capacity of each
battery because the weakest battery determines your
range. And, over-discharging of a weak battery posts
fire hazard.
For the past few years, I have been using a battery
tester I designed. It has been thru many improvement
over the years. I have used it to help Sparrow owners
troubleshooting their cars. And, others have borrowed
it. And, since it has proven itself to be very useful
to me, I decided to make it available to everyone.
For details, please go to the URL below.
http://airlabcorp.com/BatteryTester/
Ed Ang
AIR Lab
(510)673-7602
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Close to three amps. LR......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: Watt to amp to volt conversions & why they aren't the same.
Joe Smalley wrote:
Watts = Volts x Amps is always true.
The problem is how you measure them.
How about in this example: 12 volt DC system. How many amps does a 35
watt headlight pull?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did Bob Cummings drive one on his TV show? LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:42 AM
Subject: Post ww II elec 'car'
Hi all,
I don't know how many of you have checked out the link on my web site to
my conversion but the first picture on it is of an Airphibian. It was a
car/airplane that my father was part inventor, test pilot, engineer,
mechanic and chief bottlewasher. If you google it you'll see many more
pictures.
Anyway the point is that one of the 3 prototypes that were build and FAA
licenced as experimental one was an electric drive. The main engine, air
cooled, was the power source on land, it was hooked to a dynamo that drove
2 elec motors, one for each rear wheel. The motors were mounted in the
body under the seats and used a drive shaft with U joints to get power to
the wheels.
Just a way point in the voyage of EV's
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Did Bob Cummings drive one on his TV show? LR.......
> ----- Original Message -----
Don't know...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure! If by close you mean 800 miles away. I am about 14 miles East of
Modesto CA.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: Independent rear suspension
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave"
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: Independent rear suspension
Another IRS worth considering is the T-Burd from around 1992. It looks to
be
a fairly sturdy model. I have a junker in my backyard right now, if
anyone
wants it...
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Dave,
I might be interested, where are you located? Close to Tucson AZ I hope...
Rush
Tucson AZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey that I am back on the list...
Us a 12 volt AC supply. run 10 amp through the fields only.
Move the brushes for the LEAST voltage. this is the REAL OH MY GOD nuetral
point.
Then advance or retard from there.
Gotta go got a engineering meeting tonight at the shop...
aka get me on the shop line if you need help.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: DC Motor Timing
> I checked brush timing on large DC motors in the Union Carbide plant I
> worked in years ago. Use a sharpened wooden pencil with a knotch cut in
> the wood near the eraser end to expose the graphite Connect a digital
volt
> meter, one lead to the exposed graphite, the other lead to the pigtail on
> the
> brush to be tested. With the motor at normal load and speed, let the
> sharpened end of the pencil drag along the commutator just in front of the
> brush and take a voltage reading. Take another reading with the pencil
> dragging just behind the brush. Both readings should be the same
magnitude,
> but opposite polarity. Adjust the brush rigging to get the magnitudes
> about the same. Wear insulated gloves if you do this on a high voltage
> motor.
> This would be a difficult procedure to perform on a moving vehicle's
> electric motor,
> but certainly possible on a fixed test stand capable of loading the motor
to
> operating conditions.
>
> Mark T.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >I remember seeing rich using a meter to optimize the timeing on the
motors
> >for gone postal in the video. T think I even understand how the armature
> >reaction pulls the field around movint the neutral point.
> >
> > I want to know how to do this with a meter, rich, rod, otmar, lee...?
Is
> > there a procedure listed someplace?
> >
> ....................................
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rewinding the field on a golf cart motor that is *NOT*
intended to be a generator will yield a sepex motor.
This is exactly what is done on the golf cart motor,
no compensating windings. If you want to use a series
motor as sepex on a golf cart with the appropriate
controller no compensating is needed. This is proven
in all of the sepex golf carts on the market (it's the
same motor with the same amp-turns as the series).
The key in this application is to not weaken the field
too much. You can also strengthen the field for regen
in this motor. As long as you don't push the field to
high or low extremes brush arcing is not a major
concern in this application. This does not
necessarily apply to higher voltage applications in on
road EV's. Compensating windings are required for
this application like they are on my Dodge TEVan.
Rod
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > Seems to me that it shouldn't be that hard to
> rewind a series motor,
> > like an ADC, into a sepex motor.
>
> Yes; replacing the series field winding with a shunt
> winding is easy.
> The challenge begins when you try to use it as a
> shunt generator or
> sepex motor.
>
> The ADC series motor has no compensating windings,
> because they assume
> the field and armature are always in series, so
> their magnetic field
> strengths always go up and down together. This
> minimizes changes in the
> optimal brush position to minimize arcing.
>
> If you weaken the field (such as by running low
> field current and a high
> armature current), the strong armature magnetic
> field drags the weaker
> stator field out of position. This seriously
> increases arcing. If you
> use it as a generator where the armature current
> (and its magnetic
> field) are reversed, you drag the field in the
> opposite direction, now
> the brushes are out of position in the opposite
> direction, again
> increasing arcing. The result is short brush life.
>
> The "correct" solution for this is to add
> compensating windings. These
> are interpoles (between the poles) and pole face
> windings that are in
> series with the armature, and carefully placed to
> exactly counteract the
> pole movement caused by armature reaction.
>
> But to fit these extra windings into the motor, the
> field structure has
> to be physically larger. A 9" motor without
> interpoles needs to be 10"
> or 11" in diameter if you add interpoles and pole
> face windings.
> Possible -- but a lot more work!
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And that's what the inside of my GE sepex looked like, too. I still
have it Rod ;-)
Seth
On Apr 14, 2005, at 9:48 PM, Rod Hower wrote:
Rewinding the field on a golf cart motor that is *NOT*
intended to be a generator will yield a sepex motor.
This is exactly what is done on the golf cart motor,
no compensating windings. If you want to use a series
motor as sepex on a golf cart with the appropriate
controller no compensating is needed. This is proven
in all of the sepex golf carts on the market (it's the
same motor with the same amp-turns as the series).
The key in this application is to not weaken the field
too much. You can also strengthen the field for regen
in this motor. As long as you don't push the field to
high or low extremes brush arcing is not a major
concern in this application. This does not
necessarily apply to higher voltage applications in on
road EV's. Compensating windings are required for
this application like they are on my Dodge TEVan.
Rod
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Seems to me that it shouldn't be that hard to
rewind a series motor,
like an ADC, into a sepex motor.
Yes; replacing the series field winding with a shunt
winding is easy.
The challenge begins when you try to use it as a
shunt generator or
sepex motor.
The ADC series motor has no compensating windings,
because they assume
the field and armature are always in series, so
their magnetic field
strengths always go up and down together. This
minimizes changes in the
optimal brush position to minimize arcing.
If you weaken the field (such as by running low
field current and a high
armature current), the strong armature magnetic
field drags the weaker
stator field out of position. This seriously
increases arcing. If you
use it as a generator where the armature current
(and its magnetic
field) are reversed, you drag the field in the
opposite direction, now
the brushes are out of position in the opposite
direction, again
increasing arcing. The result is short brush life.
The "correct" solution for this is to add
compensating windings. These
are interpoles (between the poles) and pole face
windings that are in
series with the armature, and carefully placed to
exactly counteract the
pole movement caused by armature reaction.
But to fit these extra windings into the motor, the
field structure has
to be physically larger. A 9" motor without
interpoles needs to be 10"
or 11" in diameter if you add interpoles and pole
face windings.
Possible -- but a lot more work!
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
