EV Digest 4283
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Genset
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Post ww II elec 'car'
by D B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: bus bars
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Genset
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Genset
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: bus bars
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DC Motor Timing
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) 2173 lbs AGM
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Wire Gauge questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: bus bars
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: bus bars
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 2173 lbs AGM
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: bus bars
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) PLEASE - NO COMPUTER OS DEBATES
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) EVLN(Reva NXG, 125 mi per 6 hr charge, top speed of 75mph)-long
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EVLN(Leno on Lithium)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Wire Gauge questions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: bus bars
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Post ww II elec 'car'
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) EVLN(Army unveils monster diesel-electric MP Hybrid)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
When used as a generator you need a stronger field and/or more RPM to get
more voltage.
______________
Andre' B.
At 10:33 PM 4/14/2005, you wrote:
<< snip >>
Can I take shunt wound 48vdc GC motors and
with the correct timing, run it at 72vdc nom as a gen
to do this with the correct timing and a weaker field
to get the higher voltage?
Looking for 80-100 amp output at 82 or so vdc
preferably at 3600rpm.
Or a better choice?
Thanks,
jerry dycus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
Did Bob Cummings drive one on his TV show? LR.......
----- Original Message ----- From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:42 AM
Subject: Post ww II elec 'car'
Hi all,
I don't know how many of you have checked out the link on my web site
to my conversion but the first picture on it is of an Airphibian. It
was a car/airplane that my father was part inventor, test pilot,
engineer, mechanic and chief bottlewasher. If you google it you'll
see many more pictures.
Anyway the point is that one of the 3 prototypes that were build and
FAA licenced as experimental one was an electric drive. The main
engine, air cooled, was the power source on land, it was hooked to a
dynamo that drove 2 elec motors, one for each rear wheel. The motors
were mounted in the body under the seats and used a drive shaft with
U joints to get power to the wheels.
Just a way point in the voyage of EV's
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
The car on the Bob Cummings show was one of Molt Taylor's Aerocars,
which actually received an FAA type certificate. I believe that one car
still exists, as I saw it years ago at Oshkosh. DB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M Bianchi wrote:
> I recall reading _somewhere_ of adding Bellville spring washers to the bolt
> and
> nut to keep the inteconnect ends firmly against the battery's terminals
It might have been here: http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/hardware.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I wrote a spreadsheet to calculate charge current/voltage from the various
eCycle motors.
Assuming the pack stays at 72V (I.e. the generator is providing ALL the
power for the motor), the MG24 will produce 100 amps at approx 3140 rpm.
Bulk charging (approx 82V) will require approx 3530 rpm to produce 100 amps.
Both cases assume a 0.6V drop across the rectifier.
That's a pretty good match to a gas engine.
> You can get around 82V for charging with an eCycle MG2-24 and a 3-phase
> bridge, at about 3900 - 4000 RPM I would estimate. 3600 RPM would be
> about
> right for driving with the batteries kept closer to the nominal voltage
> and
> 100A output. This MG2-24 permanent magnet brushless DC unit weighs only
> about 26 pounds and is quite compact at 8 inches square and less than 5
> inches long. Also, there would be no problems with timing, brush arcing,
> or
> varying the field, and it is more efficient with no power used for the
> field.
>
> If 60A would be useful from an even smaller 15 pound unit, I have an MG-24
> which has only a couple of hours running time on it. That was the first
> unit I bought, and the voltage output is not high enough for my 84-96V
> vehicles at 3600 RPM, but perfect for a 72V system. ( I am using an MG-30
> and an MG3-36 now).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 11:33 PM
> Subject: Re: Genset
>
>
>> Hi Lee anmd All,
>> As I need a good DC generator in the near
>> future as an unlimited range extender, can I take a
>> standard series motor and rewind the field shunt style
>> then with correct timing use it eff just as a
>> generator?
>> Can I take shunt wound 48vdc GC motors and
>> with the correct timing, run it at 72vdc nom as a gen
>> to do this with the correct timing and a weaker field
>> to get the higher voltage?
>> Looking for 80-100 amp output at 82 or so vdc
>> preferably at 3600rpm.
>> Or a better choice?
>> Thanks,
>> jerry dycus
>>
>>
>> --- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>>> > Seems to me that it shouldn't be that hard to
>>> rewind a series motor,
>>> > like an ADC, into a sepex motor.
>>>
>>> Yes; replacing the series field winding with a shunt
>>> winding is easy.
>>> The challenge begins when you try to use it as a
>>> shunt generator or
>>> sepex motor.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________
>> Do you Yahoo!?
>> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
>> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> How about mounting the ICE in-line with the traction motor, and
> connecting it with a centrifugal clutch? When the ICE is off, it does
> nothing. When the ICE is idling, it freewheels until its speed goes
> above (say) 1000 rpm. Then it can pick up the load.
Hmm, clever. I like it.
I like using a regen traction motor as a generator too.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
It sounds good, but it doesn't work.
Well, it does for me:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_ins_tool.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_serrated.jpg
The stud in a "universal" battery terminal is the threaded end of a
stainless steel bolt. Stainless steel is a *lousy* conductor -- nichrome
wire is basically stainless steel, and they use it to make resistors.
So, using the bolt itself to carry current makes a bad situation worse.
It lowers the current rating still more, and creates even more heat in
the terminal.
Another problem is that cracks always develop between the lead post and
stainless steel stud, due to the large differences between the two
materials. Acid gets into that crack, and corrodes the lead. Now you
have a high resistance connection between terminal and stud. i've seen
batteries where the stud-to-post resistance is 100s of ohms (an open
circuit for our purposes).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:34:59 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Because I distrust expedient solutions worked out behind closed doors,
>by people with no real-world EV experience, who have demonstrated their
>interest in *blocking* the success of the technology!
You want to find "Detroit evil" in a wire color? Gad.
>
>Now, maybe orange cable is a good idea -- I don't know; I don't have all
>the facts. But before we blindly accept it as a standard, shouldn't we
>study the matter ourselves, and decide for ourselves if it makes sense?
As the Reverend says, the deed is already done. The public safety
infrastructure is already trained to recognize orange wires as high
voltage. As a former emergency management Chief, I know how the first
responders are trained - don't try to think through the problem. If
it's orange, don't cut it. If it is any other color, cut it when
needed.
The same goes for third party mechanics. If EVs ever move out of
their cult status, there must be mechanics capable of repairing cars
of owners who don't want to tinker. Dealership mechanics are
presently strongly trained to recognize orange as high voltage wiring.
Just what the EV community needs is for a first responder to chop
through black (or whatever color) high voltage cables and blow a hole
in his Jaws of Life, get injured or killed or both. In this day of
reflexive, reactive legislation, a law mandating color codes and
probably a lot more things we don't want to have would be quickly
passed.
>> The jacket is chlorinated polyethylene. I believe that it will
>> last longer than the thermoplastic on the standard cable. So why
>> not go with it?
>
>This is a good example of what I mean. If the insulation really is
>polyethylene, than it is different than every other wire. It has a low
>melting point. It burns ferociously, and the residue is highly
>conductive. It easily cold-flows, so a wire crossing a hard corner will
>gradually push thru the insulation and you have a short. It has poor
>abrasion resistance, and easily wears thru. Ask a wire manufacturer;
>nobody uses polyethylene for electrical insulation!
Dead wrong. Chlorinated crosslinked PE (CPE) is the standard high
temperature, highly abrasion resistant wire used in automotive wiring.
For automotive use it conforms to SAE J1128. It is rated for
continuous service at 125 deg C and is completely resistant to all
under-hood chemicals. It is so resistant to abrasion and cuts that it
is quite difficult to strip without the proper tool.
I use J1128 for all my automotive wiring including my EVs precisely
because it is about the toughest wire available to us civilians.
Waytek Wire (http://www.waytekwire.com) sells it by the foot.
I suppose that someone like you who hates the automotive industry with
irrational passion could call J1128 a conspiracy because, after all,
there are representative engineers from all the major auto companies
on the standard committee as well as "civilians". Like all SAE
standard committees. And like many SAE standards, this one has far
reaching effects outside the car industry. SAE standards are proven
so many other industries use them. No need to design a new flange
design (or wire spec) when a proven design is in the Handbook.
>
>> There are much more important issues to work out in making a
>> better EV, than the color of the cable.
>
>Yes! I agree completely! We can't just wire EVs with orange cable and
>say "There; now it's safe!"
No, we (should) wire our EVs' high voltage circuits with orange wire
to help improve the safety of first responders, third party mechanics
and anyone else who might be exposed to the wiring. This will be
especially important for general purpose mechanics just starting to
work on EVs because they associate fat black wires with either ground
or 12 volts.
In point of fact, we hobbyists need not expend great efforts for
orange wire. Krylon spray paint adheres to most types of insulation
like glue. I know that it adheres to PVC, HDPM, CPE and the neoprene
used on welding cables. I have for years made custom colored high
voltage wire for neon signs that match the background by spray
painting standard old GTO wire (PVC or HDPM mostly.) Similarly, I
spray paint the welding cable that I use to wire my EV orange. No big
deal. I shrink red and black sleeves on the ends of the wire to
designate polarity. Again, no big deal.
I just can't believe there is any debate about this. Sheesh!
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart"
Subject: Re: Wire Gauge questions
>
> Now, maybe orange cable is a good idea -- I don't know; I don't have all
> the facts. But before we blindly accept it as a standard, shouldn't we
> study the matter ourselves, and decide for ourselves if it makes sense?
>
> As an engineer, I start by defining the problem. What are the
> requirements?
>
> - voltage rating
> - current rating
> - temperature rating
> - flammability rating
> - abrasion and cut resistance
> - resistance to flexing and vibration
> - independently tested (UL, CSA, CE etc.)
> - environmental resistance (water, solvents, salt, etc.)
> - life expectancy
> - availability
> - cost
> and oh yes, as a minor consideration
> - color
>From your knowledge about what the cable should do, what would be your
>recommendation for the specs of the final product?
Or do you think that the existing welding cable is fine, it has been around for
years, nobody has anything negative <G> to say about it and if you want a
different color all you have to do is just wrap the cable?
By the way, I feel that MS has become the de facto standards committee for not
only Linux but for 99% of the computer world. Gates and his crew created an
easy, quick to install and operate, user friendly operating system that even
idiots can use. ( I know because I worked as a Tech for AOL and got a call from
somebody who said that the computer wasn't working, after a 5 minute
conversation, it turned out that she did not have it plugged in to the wall
socket.) How many people on this list use another OS (besides Shawn...)?
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Note Lee that I said then advance or retard from there.
The point is most motor's nuetral point is not indicated, and some actually
have what looks like Nuetral as 4 to 5 Deg advanced.
This process takes the unknown Factor out of the picture.
That's why I found the exact spot on Gone Postal's motors. I was taking no
chances.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: DC Motor Timing
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> > Use a 12 volt AC supply. Run 10 amp through the fields only.
> > Move the brushes for the LEAST [AC] voltage. This is the REAL
> > OH MY GOD nuetral point. Then advance or retard from there.
>
> That's the neutral point at light or no load. This is how you would find
> it for a motor that you want to run in either direction, or as a motor
> and a generator.
> --
> "The two most common elements in the universe
> are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now that it looks like I am back on the list..
Andbody want to hear about a 2173 LBS AGM for a fork truck??
Yes it's a EV ,Yes it involves Madman and Plasma(Water) Boy. Yes there's
Drama... and heart break. Broken stuff and hours of praying to slowly counting
meters...
It was DOA, but I have it on the mend.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Exactly my point Gadget. Manufacturers set the standard
as orange without regards of others, trained personnel
to recognize it, and forgot about everything.
We now have to set own standard. Why not set it to orange?
At least we don't need to re-train firefighters...
Moreover, now if they see anything other than orange they may
think "OK, not orange - not dangerous".
Frankly, I think, in court, it will be *your* fault if rescue
worker gets lethal shock from a cable with *your standard* color.
How he was suppose to know?
I love mine, very easy to spot:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/finished_full.jpg
Victor
Reverend Gadget wrote:
If it turns out that there are already domestic
sources with adequate
specs at reasonable prices (per Reverend Gadget and
Roger Stockton's
posts), then there is no need for you to duplicate
efforts. But if it
turns out that EVers can't actually buy this wire
(not stocked, minimum
orders, substandard quality or whatever), then it
would be a good
service to provide.
I've already built two EV's(three if you count the
giant blender) with the orange cable. Love the stuff.
I give it a good shmeer with conductive paste, crimp,
color coded shrink tubing and go.. I have had no
problen getting the stuff. with the use of polarized
battery clamps and color coding make the rewiring or
changing batteries a cinch.
Same with orange in any car. Color per se does not
benefit OEMs.
And they certainly don't make HV orange to make
your life as a
hobbyist more difficult, c'mon.
I don't think it's all about the auto manufacturers.
the fire departments and tow companies have been
trained to recognize the orange wires as high voltage.
the training has been done. why should we as a group
of hobbyists try to get the standard changed. My
hybrid has all of it's high voltage wires orange and
it runs at a higher voltage than my EV's. The standard
is there. The training is done. The orange cable is
not unobtainium. It's better than the strandard black
or red cable. The jacket is chlorinated polyethylene.
I believe that it will last loger than the
thermoplastic on the standard cable. So why not go
with it? There are much more important issues to work
out in making a better EV, than the color of the
cable.
my two pesos
Gadget
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> For me, it's an issue of aesthetics. Do I want a trunk full
> of orange cables.. How will that look compared to black..
> (maybe I've just grown used to and accustomed to seeing black cables?)
Personally, I think the orange looks better, but to each his own ;^>
> I plan on using red and black heat shrink over my cable
> ends/terminal connections. I'm still undecided on the
> terminal boots though:
>
> http://www.quickcable.com/50.html
>
> It's not like their ten cents each or anything.. Having the
> terminals covered for safety issues is nice though in some
> situations..
Have a look at Waytek; they may not be $0.10, but they're all under
$1.00:
<http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L095C828B7620B948
23F7A62+M37+ENG>
Or, support your friendly EV parts suppliers; I know that both Canadian
EVs and EV Parts carry them as well.
> Examples with:
>
> http://img237.echo.cx/img237/5848/mc0328ns.jpg
>
> http://img237.echo.cx/img237/9557/rearbatteries8dy.jpg
>
> Without:
>
> http://img237.echo.cx/img237/2041/waylands20zombie67yw.jpg
>
> I guess I just like to be able to SEE my terminals.
SEEing them is one thing, TOUCHing them is another. Notice that the
'without' example includes a clear plastic cover securely fastened over
the battery terminals to prevent touching?
> Are the bolts tight? In one situation I can look at them all the
> time. The other, I have to manually peak under each cover one by one.
You can't tell if the bolts are tight by looking anyway; you've got to
at least test the connection to see if it moves, or simply put a wrench
on the bolt and check it for tightness.
Long before you can see that it is loose, the connection will have
melted.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 14 Apr 2005 at 10:03, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> [Ou]t of curiosity, what is the best way to connect bus bars to EV batteries?
I might be inclined to "tin" them with lead and then lead-weld them to the
terminals. This is similar to what Soleq did in the Evcort. I think Bob
Rice has tried something similar, too.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov"
Subject: Re: bus bars
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_ins_tool.jpg
Love that 2 colored tool!
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> Now that it looks like I am back on the list..
What prevented you from being on the list for a while?
> Anybody want to hear about a 2173 LBS AGM for a fork truck??
I'd like to hear it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:04 AM -0700 on 4/15/05, Rush wrote:
How many people on this list use another OS (besides Shawn...)?
Several of us, actually.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
- Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> As an engineer, I start by defining the problem. What are the
> requirements?
>
> - voltage rating
> - current rating
> - temperature rating
> - flammability rating
> - abrasion and cut resistance
> - resistance to flexing and vibration
> - independently tested (UL, CSA, CE etc.)
> - environmental resistance (water, solvents, salt, etc.)
> - life expectancy
> - availability
> - cost
> and oh yes, as a minor consideration
> - color
Oh, Lee...
No one suggest using junk cable just because it is orange.
Welcome to pick any cable you as an engineer think is
appropriate with all the parameters you think are *really* OK.
Then, pull orange jacket over it and forget about it. Everyone is
happy. What's a big deal?
Victor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Several out of how many total? Just wondering. (sorry, no EV content).
Michael Hurley wrote:
At 11:04 AM -0700 on 4/15/05, Rush wrote:
How many people on this list use another OS (besides Shawn...)?
Several of us, actually.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Lee Hart wrote:
>
>> It sounds good, but it doesn't work.
>
> Well, it does for me:
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_ins_tool.jpg
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_serrated.jpg
Those aren't exactly lead acid batteries though are they?
Just out of curiousity, do they even have lead terminals?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 15 Apr 2005 at 11:04, Rush wrote:
> By the way, I feel that MS has become the de facto standards committee
Yikes. As if politics weren't enough, here's yet another off-topic way to
start a flame war on the EV list. Please, PLEASE don't respond to this
challenge onlist, gang! Mail your rebuttals directly to Rush, at
Rush (at) ironandwood (dot) org
Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Reva NXG, 125 mi per 6 hr charge, top speed of 75mph)-long
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/industry_news/news-58gin4lbbo
GoinGreen presents new electric city car concept
15th April 2005
GoinGreen, the retailer of electric cars in the UK, is showing
off a Reva NXG concept car in London today. Created by the Reva
Electric Car Company (RECC) of Bangalore, India, the EV was
launched at the 21st Worldwide Battery, Hybrid and Fuel Cell
Electric Vehicle Symposium and Exhibition in Monaco last week.
The Reva NXG is a collaborative effort between RECC, designer
Dilip Chhabria of DC Design and Simputer developer Encore
Software. It is a two-seater roadster with an extended range of
125 miles per six-hour charge and a top speed of 75mph. The car
is powered by a 37kw AC induction motor that drives the front
wheels and uses sodium nickel chloride (Zebra) batteries. The
4-wheel independent suspension chassis incorporates an integrated
regenerative and hydraulic braking system.
The concept car is fitted with what is believed to be the world�s
first �wireless tablet� - an embedded appliance that integrates
into a high-resolution single touch-screen display system
featuring all vehicle dashboard functions as well as personal
communication tools such as a GPS navigation system, a GPRS modem
for internet and email access and an MP3 music player.
GoinGreen has been marketing the Reva G-Wiz electric car in
London since last May and over 200 of these zero-emission cars
have been sold without advertising. Keith Johnston, managing
director of GoinGreen, was joined at today�s presentation by
Chetan Maini, deputy chairman and chief technical officer of RECC
at the UK press viewing of the Reva NXG concept car.
(www.goingreen.co.uk)
===
http://macleans.auto123.com/en/info/news/news%2Cview.spy?artid=39182&pg=1
April 15, 2005 Wireless tablet makes Indian EV appealing
by Alex Law , Auto123
While electric vehicles may not make sense in all Canadian
contexts, a vehicle like the NVG concept car from India's Reva
Electric Car Company of Bangalore, India, suggests there may be
niche applications in this country.
The NVG's unique ''wireless tablet'' alone makes the two-seater
worth considering. The tablet's an embedded appliance that
''integrates into a high-resolution single touch-screen display
system featuring all vehicle dashboard functions as well as
personal communication tools such as a GPS navigation system,
internet and email access, and an MP3 player.
It's a concept car so far, but the GoinGreen EV retailer in the
UK hopes to put on sale soon in London, since it should have
unique appeal in England's capital city. The concept has sold 200
units of a boxy little coupe called the G-Wiz in less than a year
with on advertising, so something as sexy as the roadster ought
to be much more appealing.
Since it's exempt from the pricey Congestion Charge in downtown
London and can park for free in central carparks, at parking
meters and in pay-and-display spots, it would be a fabulous
rental car for tourists. With the right kind of programming, a
clever firm could build the world's greatest sight-seeing
software right into that ''wireless tablet.''
The same thing would also work here in the larger cities of
Canada and the U.S., though probably only during the summer
tourist season unless the tourists were from Scandinavia or
someplace like that and didn't mind a brisk ride.
The Reva NXG is a collaborative effort between RECC, designer
Dilip Chhabria of DC Design, and Simputer developer Encore
Software. It is a two-seater roadster with an extended range of
about 200 km per six-hour charge and a top speed of 125 kmh.
The car is powered by a high-performance 37kw AC induction motor
that drives the front wheels and uses sodium nickel chloride
batteries, and the four-wheel independent suspension with an
integrated regenerative and hydraulic braking system is said to
provide ''excellent handling and braking.''
At 825 kg, the NXG is larger than it looks; it is indeed 2620 mm
long, 1640 mm wide, and 1550 mm high.
The company that builds it is a joint venture between Maini Group
of India and AEV in the USA aiming to manufacture
''environmentally-friendly, cost-effective vehicles.''
The first generation Reva was launched in India in 2001, where it
became the first non-polluting city car in India. As well as
being marketed by GoinGreen in the UK, the Reva is also being
tested in the USA, Japan and several European countries.
The vision of RECC is to ''establish a tradition of excellence
and leadership in environment friendly urban transportation by
offering the best value and highest quality electric vehicles for
city mobility.''
� 2000-2004 Xprima.com Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
===
http://www.autoindex.org/news.plt?no=1126
The Reva Electric Car Company announces the world premiere of its
new Concept Car �REVA-NXG�
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Leno on Lithium)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://car-reviews.automobile.com/news/jay-leno-buys-first-lithium-i-cell-zero-emissions-vehicle/1144/
Jay Leno Buys First Lithium I-Cell Zero-Emissions Vehicle
April 10, 2005 by Trevor Hofmann / American Auto Press
Electric Sports Car Achieves 160 KM/H!
It seems fitting that the worlds number one car fanatic, and
owner of one of the most eclectic car collections on earth which
even includes an environmentally friendly Stanley Steamer, gets
the worlds first lithium I-Cell powered sports car.
Renowned comedian and Tonight Show host Jay Leno is to take
delivery of R-Cars first production car, a retrofitted Chrysler
Crossfire. Producing zero emissions, the R-Car uses the latest
high-power, long-life battery technologies from Californias
Hybrid Technologies Inc., maker of batteries for mobile products,
plus other components developed by a consortium of companies
including R-Electric Car Company, Global Hybrid Corp., Solium
Power Corp., and WhistlerTel.
The cars lithium I-Cell, developed specifically for the vehicle,
enables it to achieve more than 100 mph, proving that even
powerful performance cars can be easy on the environment.
Jay Lenos enthusiasm for all things automotive has done much for
the collector car market, and hes now using his celebrity
influence to shed light on an EV, or electric vehicle, a segment
of alternatively powered vehicles that has recently been
overshadowed by development of the hydrogen fuel cell (FCV),
internal combustion hydrogen (H-ICE) and hybrid electric vehicles
(HEV).
"As well as being a personal fan of Mr. Leno I am honored to have
him own one of our vehicles. His knowledge and love of vehicles
is legendary. We are thrilled that our vehicle will be part of
his impressive collection, and hope it will be the first of many.
Mr. Leno is providing the public with a view of a sleek, sexy,
zero-emission vehicle. We feel that we could not have found a
better owner for our first R-Car."
The stylish Crossfire is an excellent billboard for getting
R-Cars message across to potential customers, but the company is
busy developing other cars that will be more suitable for
everyday life. High on its priorities is a Chrysler PT Cruiser
EV, as well as a variety of two-wheel vehicles such as the Jin
bike.
Also, the company recently announced a joint agreement with the
California Highway Patrol to develop and produce a lithium
I-Cell-powered motorcycle in honor of fallen CHP officers. The
Chopper will be built using an advanced lithium I-Cell system
developed by Chaz Haba. � 2005 Automobile Inc.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It was the auto companies that pushed to alert and train
> emergency personnel that orange means dangerous.
Absolutely, but I question whether this occurred for EVs or for hybrids.
Certainly, all of the publicity I have seen about rescue worker
education and orange wiring has been associated with hybrids, not EVs.
And, unlike OEM EVs, hybrids remain on the roads in large numbers
(larger than OEM EVs ever were), and their numbers appear likely to
increase dramatically in the near future.
Like it or not, for better or worse, rescue personnel *are* trained to
recognise orange automotive wiring as 'high voltage' and as requiring
special care. We hobbiest EVers can take advantage of this fact and
identify our high voltage/traction wiring by using orange and in doing
so improve the safety of the rescue workers and ourselves for
essentially no cost. Remember, when the rescue worker sees black or red
cable he will cut it with impunity; orange he will respect.
> > There are much more important issues to work out in making a better
> > EV, than the color of the cable.
>
> Yes! I agree completely! We can't just wire EVs with orange
> cable and say "There; now it's safe!"
Really, nobody suggested such a thing. What is suggested is to use
orange coloured cable that meets or exceeds all of the specifications of
the traditional off-the-shelf black or red welding cable EVers use. It
turns out this is not difficult at all.
> Let's see what our REAL specifications are; then see if any
> of the orange cables meet them. If we CAN, then we can decide
> among ourselves that this is our "standard" high voltage EV
> wiring cable.
OK:
Carol Super Vu-Tron: 600V, UL/CSA, 90C (-50C to +90C), Class M/extra
flexible (34AWG stranding), oil ressitant (P-7K-123141), MSHA approved.
Meets UL vertical flame test UL854. Ozone, weather, and abrasion
resistant. Available only in orange.
Superior Essex UL-Listed cable: 600V, UL-listed (UL subject 1276), 90C
(-50C to +90C), Class K (30AWG stranding). Thermoset CPE jacket
(chemical, oil, acid, weather, ozone, and sunlight resistant).
Available in orange (standard).
Superior Essex ExCELENE: 600V, 105C (-50C to +105C), Class K (30AWG
stranding). EPDM insulation (chemical, oil, acid, weather, ozone, and
sunlight resistant). Abrasion resistant. Available in black.
Prestolite "Prestoflex" (as supplied by KTA): 600V, 90C, EPDM jacket.
Class K (30AWG stranding) standard; Class M (34AWG stranding available
on special order). Black is standard, other colours available on
special order.
Electro-Automotive, Cloud Electric, and EV Parts all offer welding
cable, but none of their websites identify the brand/make/etc. so I
couldn't look up specs for comparison.
It appears, however, that if you include UL-listing amongst your cable
requirements, then orange colour becomes quite easy to accommodate.
For reference, at the time I bought my 2/0 Super Vu-Tron from a local
distributor, I had a choice between it at CDN$8.50/meter or
CDN$4.55/meter for Superior Essex cable in black or red (probably the
non-UL product). At today's exhange rates, this would be US$2.08/ft for
Super Vu-Tron vs US$1.11/ft for the non-UL Essex product. Either is
significantly cheaper than any of the EV parts suppliers sell it for,
and in any event, the cable cost is such a small fraction of the cost of
converting an EV that it makes very little sense to vorry greatly about
it. If spending $50 more on cable is going to bankrupt the project then
you've probably got more serious things to worry about ;^> (I strongly
encourage people to support the EV parts suppliers even when they find a
cheaper source for little things like this since if the EV parts
supplier doesn't make a profit somewhere they won't be around as a
source for all those EV-specific bits that you can't get elsewhere
because you'd need to buy 10 or 100 minimum, etc.).
Finally, when I was searching for a local distributor of the Super
Vu-Tron, General Cable informed me that if my local Home Depot didn't
stock it, they could special order it for me on request. I found a
local distributor with stock, so didn't explore this option further, but
it could certainly be a possibility for others.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, this email got sent out before I finished it (and more links to
photos was suppose to be attached), must have pressed "send" by
accident...
What I was going to say - yes, these aren't lead acid, and yes,
the current draw is so low that makes no difference (besides,
the interconnecting strips are pressed against terminals so
if the studs were made of wood, it would work just fine in
this case too.
Both terminals are made of nickel now. For older batteries
positive one was copper, negative - nickel.
The problem Lee described was the stud creeping out of
terminal, so the solution to tighten the strip between
nuts to prevent the stud forced out of lead cures *that*
problem. I didn't realize that these lead batteries can
be so much crap that the resistance between lead post and
the stud sticking right out of that very post can be 100 Ohm!
Then, one indeed pretty much has to connect directly to the post,
not to the stud.
This brings another thought - why not solder to the post
a short copper bar (strip) with a hole? Cut the slot in a post
as wide as copper bar, insert a bar vertically (strip
must be the same width as the post diameter), put thin steel
tube over post to keep its shape when molten, and heat
whole thing from top with torch. When top pf the post melts
(and confined with the tube) it fuses with copper.
One can make lead portion of the posts much larger in diameter
than stock if desired.
Then, use regular flat lugs on the cables. The
posts are no longer stressed.
Will that be more reliable than the posts Lee described?
I think US battery can repair bad posts by reflowing them.
It only will take to stick copper in before solidifying.
They perhaps could master it and offer as extra option...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
It sounds good, but it doesn't work.
Well, it does for me:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_ins_tool.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_serrated.jpg
Those aren't exactly lead acid batteries though are they?
Just out of curiousity, do they even have lead terminals?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ahh yes, the "modular" approach rings a bell. Fly to your locale, park the
wing/tail section and drive to your destination. Very innovative and
probably just too much so for its era. I am pretty sure I have seen that in
a small format Popular Mechanics/Science magazine from waaay back, in fact I
might even still have it. I will keep an eye out for it as I sift the
Junqueyard and if I find it I will let you know. Sometimes never thowing out
much of anything IS an asset, LOL. David.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: Post ww II elec 'car'
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:47 AM
Subject: Re: Post ww II elec 'car'
Can you point it out for me? David Chapman.
David,
When you get to my site www.ironandwood.org, there is a list of links on
the left-hand side, clik on the "EV conversion 86 Mitsubishi" and then on
that page, the top photo is the one I am referring to. Also if you google
Airphibian, there are a lot more photos, but not much real info. We lived
in Bethel, near Danbury from 46 to 52 and my dad worked on the Airphibian
for all that time. I'll try and get some more info from him about it.
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Army unveils monster diesel-electric MP Hybrid)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.macombdaily.com/stories/041205/bus_mphybrid001.shtml
TACOM helps develop diesel-electric vehicle
Army unveils monster hybrid
PUBLISHED: April 12, 2005
By Dan Heaton Macomb Daily Business Editor
The Army used the backdrop of the 100th anniversary meeting of
the Society of Automotive Engineers in Detroit Monday to unveil
two new hybrid-powered vehicles.
The MP Hybrid, a light duty vehicle reminiscent of a World War II
Jeep, could be used for a variety of military, homeland security
and commercial uses, the Army said Monday. The vehicle is
equipped with a diesel-electric hybrid engine designed not only
to reduce the vehicle's dependence on oil-based fuel, but could
also serve as a mobile power generation source for troops in the
field, said Dennis J. Wend, executive director of the Army's
National Automotive Center, which is based at the Detroit Arsenal
in Warren.
While dozens of engineers gathered around the vehicles to look
under the hood and give them a quick eyeball once-over, U.S. Sen.
Carl Levin, D-Mich., was telling reporters that the vehicles are
just the latest in an stream of developments coming from the
Arsenal to help keep America's soldiers safe while on the front
lines.
"We've learned the benefits of pooling brainpower," Levin said
Monday.
While Monday's event was specifically focused on the two hybrid
vehicles and a related briefcase-size portable generator, all
public military events these days prompt questions about the
future of particular bases, such as the Detroit Arsenal. The
Department of Defense is to release a list on May 16 of perhaps
as many as 100 military installations in the country it wants to
close as part of a cost savings measure.
"The most important thing is military usefulness," Levin said.
"There is no other place like (the Arsenal) in the world. It is
embedded right in the heart of the world auto industry.
"We feel (the Arsenal) is on very solid footing. I'm very
confident about Selfridge (Air National Guard Base in Harrison
Township) as well."
The two MP Hybrids were unveiled by about a dozen uniformed
soldiers from the Arsenal, also known locally as the Tank Command
or TACOM. When they were introduced as soldiers who had already
served at least one tour of duty in Iraq, a gathered group of
about 200 attendees at the event at the SAE show gave a brief but
loud round of applause.
"The MP Hybrid is not just one vehicle," said Alan Niedzwiecki,
president and CEO of Quantum Fuel System Technologies, a
California-based company which worked with TACOM to develop the
vehicles. "It is a modular, easily configurable, light duty
platform that allows a fleet purchaser to define requirements,
select from a variety of assemblies and features, and custom
configure the body and powertrain to best suit their specific
vehicle need."
The MP Hybrids seat four adults and include room for an
additional 500 pounds of cargo capacity. They are powered by two
10-horsepower-7.5kilowatt electric motors in conjunction with a
diesel engine. The vehicle is also equipped with a removable
5-kilowatt auxiliary power unit.
The MP Hybrid has not been ordered by the Army or any other
agency, but is now being marketed by Quantum and its partner
California Motors. They say they see possible uses for the
vehicle for the Border Patrol, airport security and other
agencies.
The U.S. Army will be promoting the commanding general at the
Detroit Arsenal later this week. Brig. Gen. William Lenaers, who
assumed command of the Arsenal last September, will be adding a
second star and be promoted to major general in a Friday ceremony
at the Arsenal, also known as TACOM, in Warren.
TACOM has traditionally been led by a major general in recent
years. In addition to having responsibility for the Arsenal,
which manages and develops a wide range of equipment for the Army
and other military services, the general is the commander of
several support functions at Selfridge Air National Guard Base.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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