EV Digest 4284
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(Penn hybrid rebate)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(UMD/GNB Voc-Tech students hybrid vehicle design)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(UCS Hybrid Resource HybridCenter.org site)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(2-to-1 Opposition to Hybrids in HOV Lanes)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Post ww II elec 'car'
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: OT OS question.
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) EVLN(More hybrid outlets Bill, dealers don't like it)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: bus bars
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Calcars' Prius+ @ SVEAA meet 4/16 2pm Palo Alto, CA
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Seattle Alternatively Fueled Vehicle Rally 4/23/05 10am - 2pm
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: bus bars
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Buss Bars
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: BB600 Terminals - was Re: bus bars versus wire. Width vs. Thickness.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: bus bars (Solectria interconnects)
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Penn hybrid rebate)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05103/487212.stm
State to offer rebates on hybrid vehicle purchases
Wednesday, April 13, 2005
The state Department of Environmental Protection yesterday
unveiled a Hybrid Electric and Alternative Fuel Vehicle Rebate
program to provide Pennsylvania residents $500 rebates to help
with the incremental costs of purchasing hybrid vehicles or those
powered by alternative fuel.
To qualify for the $500 rebate, the vehicle must be registered in
Pennsylvania and operated mainly within the state. The rebate
will be offered on a first come, first-serve basis throughout the
calendar year as long as funds are available.
To claim the rebate, vehicle purchasers must submit a completed
form no more than six months after the purchase to: Department of
Environmental Protection, HEV-AFV Rebate Program, P.O. Box 8772,
Harrisburg, Pa., 17105-8772.
Those applying should enclose a copy of their state vehicle
registration, a copy of the dealers invoice and proof of the
vehicle purchase. For alternative fuel vehicles only, the
alternative fuel components must be clearly identified.
Interested persons can call Cleo Arp at DEP at 717-772-8912 for a
rebate form. It is also available at DEP's website,
www.dep.state.pa.us.
"Alternative fuel and hybrid vehicles save consumers money,
especially as fuel prices continue to rise, and [they] enhance
America's energy security by making our nation less dependent on
foreign oil," DEP Secretary Kathleen A. McGinty said.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(UMD/GNB Voc-Tech students hybrid vehicle design)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/04-05/04-11-05/a09lo386.htm
UMD teams up with GNB Voc-Tech students to design hybrid vehicle
Approximately 40 UMass Dartmouth students are teaming up with
Greater Greater New Bedford Vocational-Technical High School
students hoping to design a hybrid vehicle as part of a
nationwide challenge.
The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is sponsoring the
challenge -- for the high-tech community -- to design, develop
and race a fully autonomous vehicle more than 140 miles across
the rugged Mojave Desert.
The prize to the winning team is $2 million. The competition is
scheduled for Oct. 8.
The students are under the direction of UMass Professor Howard
Michel.
Dr. Michel, assistant professor of electrical and computer
engineering, and the students are designing and building a
lightweight, nimble gas-electric hybrid vehicle.
A gas-electric hybrid vehicle has a gas-engine-powered generator
to charge batteries, while vehicle propulsion is provided by
electric motors running off of the batteries. This method of
propulsion was chosen to allow for easy control by computer, yet
with the energy storage efficiency of gasoline, he said.
>From an initial field of 195 competing teams from 37 states and
three foreign countries, only 136 teams have made it through the
rigorous third, fourth and fifth rounds to this stage of the
competition. UMass Dartmouth is among that field. Three other
competing teams hail from Massachusetts, including Massachusetts
Institute of Technology.
"Collaborating with students and teachers at Greater New Bedford
Voc-Tech in recent weeks has been enjoyable and beneficial for
students at both schools," Dr Michel said. "Engineers and
technicians work together in industry and this is a good example
of that kind of collaboration. Additional teamwork is possible in
the future."
Ted Turbak, a teacher in the engineering technology program at
GNB Voc-Tech, said that a former student, Nathaniel Barcelos, now
a UMass Dartmouth DARPA team member, approached him for help with
the machinery aspects of the task.
GNB Voc-Tech students David Besse, Ross Gallant and Jonathan
Mettale worked on electrical propulsion wiring, machining parts
for the navigation system and machining an adapter plate for the
motor drive, respectively. Teacher Tom Canastra also assisted,
Turbak said.
"The high school students were thrilled to participate," Mr.
Turbak said. "It was a good opportunity for them to see a high
tech project in the works and has piqued excitement in all of our
students at the shop about engineering something challenging and
UMass Dartmouth's program."
Meanwhile, groups of students at UMass Dartmouth are working on
the suspension and drive train, software, computer control and
radar systems and adding ultrasonic sensors for close-in obstacle
avoidance, according to Dr. Michel. The team will learn soon
whether it progresses to the next stage of the competition and
receives an on-site visit from officials.
UMass Dartmouth has submitted a required video and associated
spec sheets. The video can be viewed at
http://www.umassd.edu/engineering/ece/darpa/darpaappvideo.cfm.
This story appeared on Page A9 of The Standard-Times on April 11,
2005.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(UCS Hybrid Resource HybridCenter.org site)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.yubanet.com/artman/publish/article_19660.shtml
UCS Launches Independent Hybrid Vehicle Resource at
www.HybridCenter.org Provides One-Stop Shopping for Hybrid
Vehicle Performance, Technology By: Union of Concerned Scientists
Published: Thu, 7 Apr 2005
The Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) today unveiled the
world's most comprehensive independent website on hybrid-electric
automobiles. The new site - http://www.HybridCenter.org -
features the first interactive hybrid buyer's guide, which allows
visitors to input personal details on driving habits, location,
and ownership history to receive customized information on hybrid
models that fit the individual's lifestyle and budget.
"The hybrid label has increasing public relations cachet for
automakers, but not all models are delivering equally on this
promising technology," said Kevin Knobloch, president of the
Union of Concerned Scientists. "Hybridcenter.org helps
distinguish the facts from the hype."
In addition to monitoring manufacturer claims and market trends
in its Watchdog section, HybridCenter.org includes an interactive
"Under the Hood" feature for technophiles, a guide to hybrid
consumer incentives, tips for quicker access to the most popular
models, comparisons of hybrid vehicles on the market, vehicle
reviews, and anecdotes from hybrid owners across the nation. The
Tech Center delves into the details of hybrid engineering so
anyone can understand the advantages of hybrids and differentiate
a true hybrid from a "hollow hybrid."
"With gas over $2.00 per gallon, and the United States spending
more than $300,000 every minute on foreign oil, the promise of
hybrid vehicles has never been more important," said David
Friedman, research director of the Union of Concerned Scientists'
Clean Vehicles Program. "Hybridcenter.org takes you under the
hood, explains the technology, and demonstrates that true hybrids
are a smart choice for consumers-saving money at the pump,
improving air quality and reducing heat-trapping emissions that
cause global warming."
Since 1999, more than 200,000 hybrids have been sold in the
United States. Six hybrid models are currently on the market,
with five to eight to be released in the next three years.
Automakers are beginning to market vehicles as hybrids regardless
of their environmental performance. In the Watchdog section, UCS
analysts will monitor the hybrid market and expose models that
don't deliver on the promise of hybrid technology.
To view the hybrid center go to: http://www.hybridcenter.org.
Founded in 1969, the Union of Concerned Scientists is a nonprofit
partnership of scientists and citizens combining rigorous
scientific analysis, innovative policy development and effective
citizen advocacy to achieve practical environmental solutions.
UCS's Clean Vehicles Program develops and promotes strategies to
reduce the adverse environmental impacts of the U.S.
transportation system.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(2-to-1 Opposition to Hybrids in HOV Lanes)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.kntimes.com/knreleases/fullstory03051-insight-news-status-1-newsID-1880.html
Poll Shows 2-to-1 Opposition to Hybrid Car Access to HOV Lanes
Congress may soon be debating whether or not drivers of hybrid
electric cars will be permitted to drive alone in High Occupancy
Vehicle "Diamond" lanes during rush hour traffic. While
California, Arizona and Virginia have all passed legislation
allowing such access, Congress must revise current law which bans
such access on any highways built with federal funds. HOV access
is seen as an incentive for consumers to buy more fuel efficient,
low-pollution vehicles.
Congressmen Darrell Issa (R.CA) and State Representative Brad
Sherman (D-Sherman Oaks) are slated to introduce the "Hybrid
Vehicle Access Act" in Washington, D.C. this week, which would
allow hybrid cars that get better than 45 mpg to drive in the HOV
lanes.
Currently, hybrid car drivers are entitled to a $2000 federal
income tax deduction when they purchase approved models that
include the Toyota Prius, Honda Insight, Civic and Accord and the
Ford Escape Hybrid. Some 88,000 gasoline-electric hybrids were
sold in the United States in 2004. Projections in 2004 by
California's Air Resources Board estimated that the number of
hybrids in the state by 2007 at 110,000. California's HOV law
would limit the number vehicles granted access to 75,000.
In Virginia, where hybrid drivers commuting into Washington, D.C.
every day can already take advantage of that state's law,
complaints are being raised that its HOV lanes are already
congested by many of the nearly 7,000 gasoline-electric cars
registered in the state last year.
A recent San Jose Mercury News poll of its readers indicated that
they disapproved of hybrid car access in HOV lanes by 6-to-1,
results that are confirmed by a month-long poll conducted by
EVWorld.Com (http://www.evworld) of its readers, who were asked
specifically, "Should hybrid-electric vehicles be given
unrestricted access to HOV Diamond lanes regardless of their fuel
efficiency rating?"
It is this aspect of California's law that has rankled American
automakers, Ford Motor Company, in particular, because its Escape
Hybrid's EPA fuel economy average is 33.5 mpg, double the
efficiency of its non-Hybrid counterpart.
A total of 697 [ http://evworld.com ] readers responded to the
survey and 65% answered "No", while 30% checked "Yes". Just over
4 percent replied they were "Unsure". This response strongly
suggests that among EV World readers, an estimated 15% of whom
own hybrid vehicles, that any legislation that permits HOV access
should have a minimum fuel efficiency requirement associated with
it. It may also indicate, like the Mercury News poll, general
opposition to the HOV incentive for any and all hybrid vehicles.
[...]
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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http://www.newton.mec.edu/brown/te/ALTERNATIVE_FUEL/TIMELINE/timeline.html
Have fun.
Came from EV directory http://www.electric-car-site.info/ I got
email from that MME was included...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:37 AM -0700 on 4/15/05, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Several out of how many total? Just wondering. (sorry, no EV content).
No clue. Nor do I know just how many of us use each of the major OSs.
Might be mildly interesting to do a poling (preferably off-list) just
to see if our seeming basic streak of non-conformity would extend to
the computer realm as well.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
- Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(More hybrid outlets Bill, dealers don't like it)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/11381461.htm
Posted on Wed, Apr. 13, 2005
Bill would allow more hybrid outlets
SALES OF NEW VEHICLES NOW LIMITED TO CAR DEALERS
By Matt Nauman Mercury News
To boost sales and reduce the cost of hybrids and other
lower-emission vehicles, a bill in the California Assembly
proposes that automakers be allowed to sell them through
alternative channels -- perhaps at Costco, on eBay or even at
health-food co-ops or churches -- and not only through
dealerships.
And dealers don't like it.
The group's Sacramento lobby met with Mark Leno, D-San Francisco,
the bill's author, about a month ago.
``We told them they were misguided in their approach,'' said
Brian Maas, director of governmental affairs for the California
Motor Car Dealers Association. ``That it's better to have direct
incentives, and not a convoluted scheme like they have in this
bill.''
Dealers, Maas said, are ``selling as many hybrid cars as they
can. If there's a shortage, it's a supply-and-demand issue. There
aren't enough out there.''
V. John White, the environmental lobbyist who worked with Leno on
the bill, agrees that supply is short.
``We need to lower the cost of hybrids so people can buy more of
them sooner,'' said White, legislative director of the Clean
Power Campaign that's pushing AB 1223. The bill faces its first
hearing before the Assembly Transportation Committee on Monday.
``This is a new idea, a new concept,'' Leno said.
In effect, it would create an Internet hybrid-vehicle sales
license that would permit others besides new-car dealers to buy
cars from automakers.
White cites a Consumer Federation of America study that shows
that the existing sales and distribution system adds $2,000 to
$3,000 to the cost of a new vehicle.
High gas prices and growing interest in hybrids make this a good
time for the measure, said co-author Assemblywoman Sally Lieber,
D-Mountain View.
There's a backlog of buyers wanting hybrids, and some are selling
spots on waiting lists via eBay. Also, the state has no money to
offer tax incentives to California buyers. White said the bill
would affect the sale of less than 1 percent of the new vehicles
sold in California -- zero-emission vehicles and those that
qualify as advanced technology partial zero emission (AT-PZEV)
are mentioned specifically.
What's uncertain is who might take advantage of the proposed
law.
In a letter from his Clean Power Campaign, White suggested that
eBay, CarMax, Apple Computer or Costco might. In a telephone
interview, he said a natural-food co-op or a church or ``any
place where people go and congregate and have trust'' might.
Leno also mentioned Google and Amazon.com, but he said, ``I
haven't had a conversation with any of them.''
``We have nobody backing the bill from the private sector,'' he
said. ``We wish there was.''
A 2004 study by J.D. Power and Associates said 64 percent of car
buyers used the Internet during their vehicle shopping. But
transactions still ultimately end up at dealerships.
``Nowadays people buy almost everything on the Internet,'' White
said. The fact that shoppers have to go through dealers to get
new cars and trucks remains ``an artificial barrier,'' and one
that's protected by California law. It's a misdemeanor for a
car maker to sell a new vehicle to anyone but a licensed
dealer, he said.
White has dueled with the state's car dealers before. He was a
big backer of the state's landmark greenhouse-gas bill. It is
being opposed in court by automakers and some individual car
dealers.
Talk to Matt Nauman about new cars online for a live
question-and-answer session from noon to 1 p.m. Friday at
www.mercurynews.com . You also may contact him at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or (408) 920-5701.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Exactly my point Gadget. Manufacturers set the standard as orange
> without regards of others, trained personnel to recognize it, and
> forgot about everything.
>
> We now have to set own standard. Why not set it to orange?
> At least we don't need to re-train firefighters...
>
> Moreover, now if they see anything other than orange they may
> think "OK, not orange - not dangerous".
Now that the auto companies are no longer making EVs, what makes us
think they will continue to pay to train emergency personnel that
"orange means dangerous"?
> Frankly, I think, in court, it will be *your* fault if rescue
> worker gets lethal shock from a cable with *your standard* color.
> How he was suppose to know?
Let's be serious -- Rescue workers don't depend on high voltage cables
being orange. Orange is *NOT* used for high voltage cables in homes,
businesses, industrial EVs, trains, trucks, buses, mining equipment,
etc. NOTHING uses orange for high voltage cables except auto company EVs
-- and they've all been pulled off the market!
I don't object to orange per se -- it's just a color; like red or any
other. I would rather that we discuss the type of wire that should be
used, its ratings, how it should be routed and protected, etc. Color is
only one small part of the design of a safe system.
Picking orange is fine -- if the orange wire we can get really is decent
quality stuff. But I've had too many bad experiences with SAE standards;
often, they are written to be CHEAP; not good.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> It sounds good, but it doesn't work.
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Well, it does for me:
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_ins_tool.jpg
> http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/bms_serrated.jpg
It works for you because these are high-resistance li-ion cells, the
terminals are steel (not lead), and you are running at currents well
under 100 amps. Try it with a golf cart battery at 100+amps continuous
and you'll see what's wrong with using the stud as your conductor.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Oh, Lee... No one suggest using junk cable just because it is orange.
I hope not! And yet, I see people suggesting SAE J1128 as a suitable
standard for high voltage EV cable. It's not; J1128 is for cheap
low-voltage (12v) car wiring.
> Welcome to pick any cable you as an engineer think is
> appropriate with all the parameters you think are *really* OK.
> Then, pull orange jacket over it and forget about it. Everyone is
> happy. What's a big deal?
This is fine. I agree that you can color any suitable wire orange.
That's not a big deal.
What I think is worth discussing is what constitutes "suitable" wire. I
honestly think many hobby EVs are wired with any old wire that comes to
hand, regardless of its specs. People don't know what the insulation is,
what its voltage or temperaturature ratings are, whether it burns, or
cracks when cold, or melts when hot.
Isn't this where the substantive discussions should be? And not what
color?
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
> Have a look at Waytek; they may not be $0.10, but they're all under
> $1.00:
Waytek is my preferred wiring products supplier; they are local, keep
most items in stock, and are willing to sell small quantities. (Note:
They do NOT have orange battery or welding cable.)
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/priusplus/message/344
[...]
* Ron Gremban, the original PRIUS+ and I will be in Palo Alto
Saturday: On April 16, 2005, Felix Kramer and Ron Gremban will
present the first PRIUS+ at the Electric Auto Association Silicon
Valley Chapter http://www.becketts.ws/eaa/meetings.htm meeting,
Saturday at 2PM (not usual meeting time), Hewlett-Packard, 3000
Hanover St., building 20 level A, Auditorium in Palo Alto. We'll
also give an update about EVS21 in Monaco, where the
EnergyCS/Valence Lithium-Ion vehicle made a splash.
[...]
===
http://eaasv.org
Next meeting April 16th, 2pm
Felix Kramer, Ron Gremban and the Prius+
[...]
All meetings open to the public (membership is not required)
The Silicon Valley Chapter of the EAA (free and open to the public)
meets on the third Saturday of each month from 10am to 12:30pm at
Hewlett-Packard, 3000 Hanover St., Palo Alto, CA, building 20 level
A, Auditorium.
Directions: From 101, take Oregon Expressway West to El Camino
Real. Oregon Expressway changes to Page Mill Rd after you cross El
Camino Real. Continue west to Hanover and turn left. Make a right
at the first driveway.
>From 280, turn off at Page Mill Rd., continue East past Foothill
Expressway. Continue on Page Mill Rd. to the bottom of the hill
which will be Hanover. Turn right on to Hanover, turn right again
at the next driveway.
-about 15 minutes of social and refreshment activities.
-about 15 minutes of chapter business including the chapter's
treasurer's report.
[The] featured speaker, which could cover a wide range of topics
that focus around electric cars. In the past we have had
informative, technical speakers on EV chargers, batteries,
controllers, and measuring devices. Speakers have also covered
subjects that include vehicle laws and regulation, or web page
access of electric vehicle sites.
- about 11:30am the speaker concludes with a question and answer
period.
- An EV discussion break out session, where members and visitors
can form into groups of common interests (EV conversion, purchase,
charging, further EV questions and answers with experienced EV
builders, and/or the speaker may continue to discuss their topic).
- at around noon, we all slip outside and take a close look at the
EVs (Electric Cars) owned by Silicon Valley and/or visiting EAA
Chapter members.
- EV Rides are made available for public awareness and education.
Please let us know if you are interested in rides. We'll see you at
the monthly meetings.
===
http://www.calcars.org/contact.html
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee, doesn't your Prius hybrid have orange wiring for the HV wiring?
Lots of hybrids are being sold and will be sold, that'll be a motive
to keep training people on "Orange = hv wiring."
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Now that the auto companies are no longer making EVs, what makes us
> think they will continue to pay to train emergency personnel that
> "orange means dangerous"?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
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--- Begin Message ---
Hello All
There is plenty of space for all and it is free to participate.
Cloud EV will be there with various vehicles and parts, the Seattle EV
Assoc. will be there, Father Time will be there with his new drag bike.
Sparrows, NEVs, hybrids, conversion cars and trucks, bikes, scooters,
skateboards and boats will be displayed.
If last year's EVent is any indicator, this will be heavily attended by the
public and members of the print and broadcast media.
Come on down!
This is the press release and contact info for the EVent-
---------------------
Seattle Parks and Recreation Alternatively Fueled Vehicle Rally
You're invited to the 2005 Earth Month Seattle Parks and
Recreation Alternatively Fueled Vehicle Rally
The Seattle Parks and Recreation Environmental Learning Center Unit
is hosting an alternatively fueled vehicle rally at Warren G. Magnuson Park
(formerly known as Sand Point) for earth month on
Saturday, April 23rd from 10 am-2 pm.
The event will take place at the North Shore area of Sand Point
concurrent with a plant sale at the park.
Participation is free and you can bring multiple vehicles;
please RSVP so that we can get an idea of who is interested in attending.
This is the second year we've hosted alternatively fueled vehicle shows;
last year's shows were at Discovery Park.
Alternatively Fueled Car owners and vendors are invited to
bring their vehicles to the event and talk about alternatively
fueled vehicles and/or transportation with members of the public.
Last year's event got a significant amount of
publicity and we're hoping to increase it this year.
Vendors and car owners can come and park their cars at the event.
Someone must remain with your vehicle at all time; cars cannot
be driven or sold during the event. Information can be distributed;
tables will be available.
We're hoping to offer another opportunity later in the year at
another large park; we'll keep you informed. Please feel free to
email me with any ideas about the event and forward this email
on to as many listserv-s and people you want.
Hope you can make it! Should be a lot of fun!
Jennifer Knight, Administrative Staff Assistant
Seattle Parks and Recreation
Discovery Park
3801 W. Government Way, Seattle, 98199
(206) 733-9434; fax: (206) 684-0195
------------------------------------------------------------
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
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>>> The jacket is chlorinated polyethylene. I believe that it will
>>> last longer than the thermoplastic on the standard cable. So why
>>> not go with it?
Lee Hart wrote:
>> This is a good example of what I mean... nobody uses polyethylene
>> for high voltage electrical insulation!
Neon John wrote:
> Dead wrong. Chlorinated crosslinked PE (CPE) is the standard
> high temperature, highly abrasion resistant wire used in
> automotive wiring. For automotive use it conforms to SAE J1128.
> I use J1128 for all my automotive wiring including my EVs...
SAE J1128 is the standard for cheap, low-voltage low-quality automotive
wire (25vac, 60vdc or less). Do you think that is suitable for the high
voltage wiring in EVs?
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> The problem Lee described was the stud creeping out of terminal,
> so the solution to tighten the strip between nuts to prevent the
> stud forced out of lead cures *that* problem.
Yes; it does. But...
> I didn't realize that these lead batteries can be so much crap
> that the resistance between lead post and the stud sticking right
> out of that very post can be 100 Ohm!
The problem is caused by the stainless steel. It is "stainless" because
it has a thick oxide coating on it (called passivation). This coating
protects it from corrosion, but creates a very high contact resistance.
It takes very high contact pressure to penetrate this coating. You can
achieve this pressure with nuts. But you can't get this pressure between
the stainless steel stud and the lead post it is embedded in. The
contact pressure is low, there is lots of acid around to cause corrosion
(and the lead will lose to the stainless), so you get a weak, corroded
connection between the stainless stud and the lead post.
> This brings another thought - why not solder to the post a short
> copper bar (strip) with a hole? Cut the slot in a post as wide as
> copper bar, insert a bar vertically (strip must be the same width
> as the post diameter), put thin steel tube over post to keep its
> shape when molten, and heat whole thing from top with torch.
That should work fine, and potentially be very reliable. It is just a
variation of the usual method where there is a large round hole in the
copper bussbar that fits over the post. You heat the top of the post,
and it welds/solders itself to the lead-coated copper bussbar. The part
of post below the copper won't melt (if you're quick) because the copper
is sucking the heat away so fast. You can wrap a wet rag or rope around
the post under the copper to be doubly sure.
The advantage of Victor's idea is that the bussbar is on edge instead of
flat. This might make it easier to attach half of the bussbar to each of
two batteries, and bolt them together. Or, have stubs on each battery,
and two bolts to connect them with a loose bussbar. Either way, it is
easier to replace a battery.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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What Ed Ang did was use thick nickle bars. I think they were a little
over
kill. I would suggest making various patterns and cutting the buss bars
out
of brass exactly the width of the battery connector. Tin or nickle plate
them. I found a product called Liquid Tin. I think there is also a
Liquid
Nickle. I would also use a thick brass washer Nickle plated as well as
lock washers. As far as I know nickle is the best element to use with
NiCads. Tin will probably also work. I'd say 1/8 inch should be thick
enough. I think there is a gauge calculator somewhere online to do the
thickness and width calculations. Lawrence Rhodes...
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A small question. Since the width of the terminal is so small is there
any
reason to have the buss bar wider and thinner than the contact surface or
the same width and thicker. Which will carry the current better or does
it
matter? Lawrence Rhodes.......
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Lee Hart wrote:
What I think is worth discussing is what constitutes "suitable" wire. I
honestly think many hobby EVs are wired with any old wire that comes to
hand, regardless of its specs. People don't know what the insulation is,
what its voltage or temperaturature ratings are, whether it burns, or
cracks when cold, or melts when hot.
Isn't this where the substantive discussions should be? And not what
color?
Absolutely! I only was my inpression that you seem to oppose decision
of making HV cables orange just because it came from the automakers,
not because it may be junk quality.
These are really two separate issues.
Welding cables in general could be junk too, but you don't seem to
oppose EVers using them (although to credit you, always suggest
to check specs; but few actually bother or understand them anyway).
Because using welding cables was "our" decision and not "theirs"...
Shouldn't it rather be good or bad decision rather whom it came from?
Or should we expect no possibility of good decision by automakers ever?
That would be short-sighted (take some excellent solutions in EV1 for
example).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Lee Hart wrote:
>> It was the auto companies that pushed to alert and train
>> emergency personnel that orange means dangerous.
Roger Stockton wrote:
> Absolutely, but I question whether this occurred for EVs or for
> hybrids.
The orange standard occurred around 1997, before there were any hybrids.
Certainly the Toyota Prius prototype I saw in 1997 did not have orange
HV wiring.
Our 2001 Prius has orange HV wiring, but it has the look of something
that was tacked on after the design was complete. The wires are routed
in orange split loop, with orange tape at the ends to hide the actual
wire color.
I haven't had a chance to look at a new Prius to see if this has
changed, Also, I don't recall if the Honda hybrids have orange wire (or
orange split loom or whatever). Can folks who have one comment?
> Certainly, all of the publicity I have seen about rescue worker
> education and orange wiring has been associated with hybrids, not EVs.
I think they changed their rationale after the fact. I'd guess that the
US automakers invented the orange rule, and when Toyota and Honda
decided to sell their hybrids here, they modified them to be "orange".
Since then, it appears the US auto companies have abandoned the
standardization and training efforts, and that it is Toyota and Honda
that are carrying the ball.
> Like it or not, for better or worse, rescue personnel *are* trained to
> recognise orange automotive wiring as 'high voltage' and as requiring
> special care.
It will be interesting to see if this continues, or whether the Japanese
(or American) hybrids will continue to use orange, or will invent yet
another "standard".
> What is suggested is to use orange coloured cable that meets or
> exceeds all of the specifications of the traditional off-the-shelf
> black or red welding cable EVers use. It turns out this is not
> difficult at all.
I agree, and hope this is the case.
> Carol Super Vu-Tron: 600V, UL/CSA, 90C (-50C to +90C), Class M/extra
> flexible (34AWG stranding), oil ressitant (P-7K-123141), MSHA approved.
> Meets UL vertical flame test UL854. Ozone, weather, and abrasion
> resistant. Available only in orange.
>
> Superior Essex UL-Listed cable: 600V, UL-listed (UL subject 1276), 90C
> (-50C to +90C), Class K (30AWG stranding). Thermoset CPE jacket
> (chemical, oil, acid, weather, ozone, and sunlight resistant).
> Available in orange (standard).
These sound good. I prefer a UL or other agency listing, because it
means someone other than the seller has actually test them to be sure
they conform to specs.
> Superior Essex ExCELENE: 600V, 105C (-50C to +105C), Class K (30AWG
> stranding). EPDM insulation (chemical, oil, acid, weather, ozone, and
> sunlight resistant). Abrasion resistant. Available in black.
>
> Prestolite "Prestoflex" (as supplied by KTA): 600V, 90C, EPDM jacket.
> Class K (30AWG stranding) standard; Class M (34AWG stranding available
> on special order). Black is standard, other colours available on
> special order.
These are possible sources, too. The higher temperature rating of the
ExCELENE could be an advantage around hot motors.
> Electro-Automotive, Cloud Electric, and EV Parts all offer welding
> cable, but none of their websites identify the brand/make/etc. so I
> couldn't look up specs for comparison.
This is where I've run into trouble. Not with these suppliers in
particular, but with "generic" welding cable from unidentified sources.
Some of it has been *really* bad!
> Finally, when I was searching for a local distributor of the Super
> Vu-Tron, General Cable informed me that if my local Home Depot didn't
> stock it, they could special order it for me on request. I found a
> local distributor with stock, so didn't explore this option further,
> but it could certainly be a possibility for others.
Thanks for the tip. That could be useful for those of us living "out in
the sticks" :-)
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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At Solectria, we used stainless bolts through (universal?) posts to
lugged cable. The stainless bolt had a washuen under the head. On the
opposite side a washer and lockwasher and a regular nut and was torqued
precisely. I think it was 5/16-18 UNC torqued to 90 in-lb. When
tightened, a wrench was used to counter the moment on the lead post so
you didn't fail the battery prematurely. That's roughly a M8 torqued to
63 N-cm. Higher resulted in creep of the lead, I think. Of course we
didn't get the terminals hot pulling the sort of currents we did.
Seth
On Apr 15, 2005, at 1:35 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
M Bianchi wrote:
I recall reading _somewhere_ of adding Bellville spring washers to
the bolt and
nut to keep the inteconnect ends firmly against the battery's
terminals
It might have been here:
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/hardware.shtml
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On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:17:17 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>>>> The jacket is chlorinated polyethylene. I believe that it will
>>>> last longer than the thermoplastic on the standard cable. So why
>>>> not go with it?
>
>Lee Hart wrote:
>>> This is a good example of what I mean... nobody uses polyethylene
>>> for high voltage electrical insulation!
>
>Neon John wrote:
>> Dead wrong. Chlorinated crosslinked PE (CPE) is the standard
>> high temperature, highly abrasion resistant wire used in
>> automotive wiring. For automotive use it conforms to SAE J1128.
>> I use J1128 for all my automotive wiring including my EVs...
>
>SAE J1128 is the standard for cheap, low-voltage low-quality automotive
>wire (25vac, 60vdc or less). Do you think that is suitable for the high
>voltage wiring in EVs?
Actually J1128 covers a wide variety of wire, from the "cheap" PVC
insulated wire (J1128-GPT) that one might buy at the car parts store
to the high grade crosslinked CPE 125 deg C rated wire with 300 and
600 volt ratings.
There is a nice and short discussion of the types of J1128 wire here:
http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/217_004
The type SXL is the type I use since I have no particular need to
minimize bundle size or weight. This is the 600 volt rated insulation
(says so right there on the spools) that also is the most abrasion
resistant.
So I guess the answer to your question is, Yes I do recommend J1128
wire for EV wiring. Hard to imagine anything better. Of course, one
does need to be astute enough to pick the right type of J1128 wire.
This might be an opportune moment to mention a very good source of
free J1128 wire. The junk yard, in the form of wiring harnesses
removed from wrecks. Vans are the best source, as some of the wires
can be over 20 ft in length. Since harnesses have little resale
value, many yards will give 'em to you free if you remove 'em from the
vehicle. At most, a few bux.
I usually go for GM harnesses because they're easier to remove than
Fords. Last fall I use less than half the wire in a full size GM van
to completely rewire (everything except the pack wiring) my Citi with
J1128-GXL wire, what GM mostly uses. Total cost was about an hour's
worth of time required to remove the harness wrap and split tube loam,
the latter of which I reused.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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