EV Digest 4285
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Color blind firefighters, was wire gauge questions
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EVLN(Leno on Lithium)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Genset
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Diahartsu Charade Meltdown
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: 2173 lbs AGM
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Genset
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Genset
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Genset
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EV noise when shifting? (MIG)
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) We hate our cars?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Genset
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: EV noise when shifting? (MIG)
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV noise when shifting? (MIG)
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EV noise when shifting? (MIG)
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: 2173 lbs AGM
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) New IMPROVED PowerCheqs
by "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: 2173 lbs AGM
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Wire Gauge questions
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: Genset
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Another Newbie joins the ranks.
by "Lord Khaos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: 98 Ranger EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
I wonder if we should depend on color at all. Perhaps on large cable,
white with black lettering like HV+ HV+ HV+ or HV- HV- HV-
down the wire repeating would make it both noticable and prevent wiring
errors. maybe + a little lightning bolt graphic + ....etc.
I would guess that colorblindness is not screened for on emergancy workers.
With 8% of the male population is colorblind (5% asiatic and 3% the rest
of us males) There must be a few colorblind emergancy personel.
I have a monitor with the red gun out I haven't got arround to fixing,
and that is where I happened to open Victor's under hood picture. I can
of course see the white wires with the black stripes better than the
orange wires to the charger. Most color blind people are red defficient.
...orange = brown :-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< "As well as being a personal fan of Mr. Leno I am honored to have
him own one of our vehicles. His knowledge and love of vehicles
is legendary. We are thrilled that our vehicle will be part of
his impressive collection, and hope it will be the first of many.
Mr. Leno is providing the public with a view of a sleek, sexy,
zero-emission vehicle. We feel that we could not have found a
better owner for our first R-Car." >>
Just what a con man like Chaz needs to bilk several millions more from gullible
investors. Does Mr Leno know what he's getting into, or is he just leading with
his chin instead of his brains?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How about mounting the ICE in-line with the
> traction motor, and
> > connecting it with a centrifugal clutch? When the
> ICE is off, it does
> > nothing. When the ICE is idling, it freewheels
> until its speed goes
> > above (say) 1000 rpm. Then it can pick up the
> load.
sounds like Honda Insight to me
>
> Hmm, clever. I like it.
> I like using a regen traction motor as a generator
> too.
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are no regulators on individual batteries.
An ideal regulator would return excess energy to the pack rather than
dissipate the unwanted.
I have voltage logs now. I did a test run of 50ks inc 10 ks @80-100kmph.
The batteries only started heating up when I got home. The batt has lost
capacity now.
Thanks Lawrence for your advice.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Friday, 15 April 2005 2:21 AM
To: djsharpe; [email protected]
Subject: Re: Diahartsu Charade Meltdown
Do you have voltage regulators on each battery? Have you checked finish
voltage of each battery in your pack? I think you will find your pack
highly out of balance and when your friend did the hill climb all the
weaknesses came out. You babied the pack. That is why you didn't
notice.
Your friend drove it as needed. Big difference. If you baby a pack it
will
last longer and problems won't appear. Stress the pack with a hill
climb.
All H E double hockey sticks breaks lose. Check all voltages on all
batteries and document them. Check during charge & after discharge.
This
is how you find weak batteries. Using regulators is how you prevent
making
a weak battery worse. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:53 PM
Subject: Diahartsu Charade Meltdown
>
> This may be a repeat. First hadn't gone thru.
> I lent my EV to another member (AM) for promotional purposes & for
> showing to other aspiring EV builders. It came back in worse condition
> than it went.
> The EV has batteries in the front, under the back seat & in the spare
> wheel well. There are three parallel strings of Panasonic LC-LA1233P
> (12V 33Ahr) 144V nominal, so 36 batteries with Zivan NG3 on board
> controller & 9 inch motor.
> The NG3 starts off at 15A current limit, followed by 176V constant and
> 3A for one hour. It is possible to reach 190V during the final stage
> according to AM
> What has happened is that in the approx centre of mass of the back
seat
> batteries there is evidence of heat & pressure as one bat has started
> ballooning and others near it have started to melt. The area is not
> sealed but has some ports for ventilation. There is supposed to be a
fan
> but it isn't working at present. Other batteries are basically OK. The
> party balloon has now got a shorted cell.
>
> AM did a 90k return trip involving suburban & freeway with approx 1.5
> hr recharge at destination but on the way back he climbed one of the
> steepest hills in Melbourne (Wheelers Hill) at about 35mph causing the
> DCPS-1200 to squeal. He needed to drop down to a lower gear to finish.
> This hill would take about 2 mins to climb.
> MF claims the damage was in existence before I lent him the car. I
have
> not done any long trips myself only about 60ks max at modest
> performance.
> So what has caused this Chernobyl? Is pushing the batteries too far
the
> problem? Is it the charger?
> Can the NG3 be modded to make it more suited to AGM batts?
> Should the batts be reconfigured to 12 series groups of 3 paralleled
> batts?
> Should I fit bypass diodes & voltage limiting circuit to each 12V
group?
> Should I torture AM and get the truth out of him?
> Your comments will be gratefully apprec'td.
> David Sharpe
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee I really don't understand why you are fighting this so hard.
WHy the Automakers choose orange is totally irelevant, who cares? (other
than you).
The fact is that they did and currently rescue workers are trained to
recognize orange wires as hazardous.
If you are building a conversion now, it makes sense to take advantage of
this, it does no harm and may possibly help someday.
Since we can't see the future, what difference does it make if they choose
to change it again in the future? We can only act on what exists today.
Suggesting that we as hobbiest develope a new standard is almost
ludicrous. How many standards have we set that anyone outside the
comunity knows or follows? And what would be the point?
Is there some other collor you have in mind that is somehow better than
orange? Is it worth the effort to educate rescue workers that "Orange is
dangerous in hybrids, but you have to look out for purple with pink
poka-dots in conversions"?
Let it go Lee, it's fait accompli.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> SAE J1128 is the standard for cheap, low-voltage low-quality
>> automotive wire (25vac, 60vdc or less). Do you think that is
>> suitable for the high voltage wiring in EVs?
Neon John wrote:
> Actually J1128 covers a wide variety of wire, from the "cheap"
> PVC insulated wire (J1128-GPT) that one might buy at the car
> parts store to the high grade crosslinked CPE 125 deg C rated
> wire with 300 and 600 volt ratings.
>
> There is a nice and short discussion of the types of J1128 wire here:
> http://order.waytekwire.com/IMAGES/M37/catalog/217_004
Read carefully. It says "Hookup wire and service cord is stocked for 300
volt and 600 volt applications." NOT automotive wire! Hookup wire and
service cords are sold on a DIFFERENT page.
The SEPARATE box describing automotive wire does not give voltage
ratings. That's because the voltage rating specified for all types of
J1128 wire is 25 vac or 60vdc maximum.
> The type SXL is the type I use since I have no particular need to
> minimize bundle size or weight. This is the 600 volt rated insulation
> (says so right there on the spools)
Now, your spool might say 600v; but they can write anything they like on
a spool. It isn't UL listed; nobody tests it. It isn't required to meet
SAE J1128; it only has to work to 25vac or 60vdc. Besides, SAE specs are
voluntary; there is no independent testing. You have to take the
salesman's word for it, or test it yourself.
> So I guess the answer to your question is, Yes I do recommend J1128
> wire for EV wiring. Hard to imagine anything better.
I think you are mistaken. Automotive wire is NOT a good choice for high
voltage wiring in an EV.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would bite, but I've already seen it, so that would be cheating. I bet if
you told everyone the voltage of the pack they would know what you're
talking about.
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: 2173 lbs AGM
Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:51:42 -0700
Now that it looks like I am back on the list..
Andbody want to hear about a 2173 LBS AGM for a fork truck??
Yes it's a EV ,Yes it involves Madman and Plasma(Water) Boy. Yes there's
Drama... and heart break. Broken stuff and hours of praying to slowly
counting meters...
It was DOA, but I have it on the mend.....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> jerry dycus wrote:
> > As I need a good DC generator in the near
> > future as an unlimited range extender, can I take
> a
> > standard series motor and rewind the field shunt
> style
> > then with correct timing use it eff just as a
> > generator?
> > Can I take shunt wound 48vdc GC motors
> and
> > with the correct timing, run it at 72vdc nom as a
> gen
> > to do this with the correct timing and a weaker
> field
> > to get the higher voltage?
> > Looking for 80-100 amp output at 82 or so
> vdc
> > preferably at 3600rpm.
> > Or a better choice?
>
> What are the chances for just using an entire
> motorcycle rear end,
> engine and all? It would be much more efficient
> (best fuel economy) to
> directly drive the rear wheel, rather than use the
> ICE to drive a
> generator to charge the batteries to run the elecric
> motor that drives
> the wheel.
By the time you add the weight, extra tire drag, a
little aero drag and you wouldn't be able to tow a
trailer, it's little more eff than a series hybrid and
a series hybrid is much more simple, easy to install,
remove, weighs much less and as it runs always at it's
most eff rpm, very eff.
Plus a bike transmission and clutch just won't hold
up to pushing a 1500+ EV and itself. Then there are
cooling problems with it behind the EV. And the cost
as this must be new to be sold as an option.
Eventually it will be an under 100lb, 9-12kw
removeable gen in the long run I believe better
overall. The difference will be getting 100mpg vs 120
mpg or less.
The eff lost is quite small when everything need to
do either the direct drive or MC pusher is used.
Eventually our e motor, gen will be 90% eff each
even if we have to build them ourselves which we
probably will do later as the ones out there now are
too pricey.
>
> Yes, you can use a shunt golf cart motor as a
> generator. Since they
> aren't "proper" generators, the brush timing will be
> off and you'll
> probably get too much arcing at 72v and 100 amps.
> But, it is probably
> acceptable at 72v and 25 amps.
Can't you adjust the timing to be correct at 100
amps, 80vdc? I have no problem moving the brushes to
get it right and will only be used as a gen except to
start the gen motor..
>
> The cheapest and lightest solution is an automotive
> alternator.
> Efficiency stinks, though.
Yes it does so that's not good.
Know of any other cheap but eff 3ph alt, ect, that
would work? Looking for something under $500, 50lbs
new and 3600rpm or less.
>
> How about mounting the ICE in-line with the traction
> motor, and
> connecting it with a centrifugal clutch? When the
> ICE is off, it does
> nothing. When the ICE is idling, it freewheels until
> its speed goes
> above (say) 1000 rpm. Then it can pick up the load.
Hard to connect to the wheel with the trailing arm
movement. Can be done but not easy. Plus you lose some
eff in the belt, ect.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
> We could add a small shunt winding to the traction
> motor, so it is (say)
> 75% series, 25% shunt. Use the shunt field as a way
> to make it work as a
> generator, for mild regen. It is also a way to
> provide automatic rpm
> limiting in case the belt breaks, or to adjust motor
> speed without a PWM
> controller. This is what the old Baker EV I
> described did.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
> thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Lee I really don't understand why you are fighting this so hard.
> Let it go Lee, it's fait accompli.
(How did I get myself into this mess...)
Everyone seems to think that I'm arguing about color. I'm not. I'm
saying the color is NOT IMPORTANT. Safety and performance are what
matter. It is more important to use the right TYPE of wire for the job;
not what color it is!
As to why I'm "fighting it" -- I reject the notion that the auto
companies are experts on EVs, or that they have any right (or even any
ability!) to set standards for them. It is the EV INDUSTRY that sets the
standards, just by plain old everyday usage -- not the auto companies.
If they're not in the market, nobody will pay any attention to their
"standards".
What's the standard battery connector? The Anderson connectors.
What's the standard EV charging connector? An ordinary 120vac 15amp AC
outlet already found in every home.
What's the standard EV battery? The 6v golf cart battery.
What's the standard EV motor? The Advanced DC series motors.
These are the standards because they are the most common, and most
widely used. They will *continue* to be the standards, until something
demonstrably better comes along; enough better so *it* becomes the most
common and widely used.
Only in rare cases can a company dictate a standard by brute force. It
only happens when that company has VAST amounts of market control and
plenty of money to spend. Gang, this does NOT describe anyone in the EV
market!
If orange HV wiring is a good engineering choice, let's use it -- on its
own merits. Just don't use it because Toyota or GM or some car company
says so.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> What are the chances for just using an entire
>> motorcycle rear end, engine and all?
jerry dycus wrote:
> By the time you add the weight, extra tire drag, a
> little aero drag and you wouldn't be able to tow a
> trailer, it's little more eff than a series hybrid and
> a series hybrid is much more simple, easy to install,
> remove, weighs much less and as it runs always at it's
> most eff rpm, very eff.
You misunderstood me. I mean REPLACE your trailing arm and rear tire
with a motorcycle rear end. It's still a 3-wheeled vehicle; no trailer.
Either the electric motor or the ICE can drive the chain (or belt, or
even drive shaft) to run the back wheel.
> Plus a bike transmission and clutch just won't hold
> up to pushing a 1500+ EV and itself.
There are bikes that weigh this much.
> Then there are cooling problems with it behind the EV.
Just requires enough air. Use a liquid-cooled engine, and put the
radiator somewhere out in the breeze.
>> Yes, you can use a shunt golf cart motor as a generator.
>> Since they aren't "proper" generators, the brush timing will
>> be off and you'll probably get too much arcing at 72v and
>> 100 amps. But, it is probably acceptable at 72v and 25 amps.
> Can't you adjust the timing to be correct at 100
> amps, 80vdc?
Yes, you could. It would then be fine at values around this voltage and
current but arcing would get worse at other levels (which may not matter
if all you use it for is a FullOn/FullOff generator.
> Know of any other cheap but eff 3ph alt, ect, that
> would work? Looking for something under $500, 50lbs
> new and 3600rpm or less.
As others have mentioned, there are some like the Ecycle. You could also
replace the rotor of an alternator with a PM rotor to raise efficiency.
>> How about mounting the ICE in-line with the traction
>> motor, and connecting it with a centrifugal clutch?
>> When the ICE is off, it does nothing. When the ICE is
>> idling, it freewheels until its speed goes above (say)
>> 1000 rpm. Then it can pick up the load.
> Hard to connect to the wheel with the trailing arm
> movement. Can be done but not easy. Plus you lose some
> eff in the belt, ect.
Again, I'm not sure you understand. All I'm saying is that the motor and
ICE are mounted with their shafts lined up end-to-end. There is a
centrifugal clutch between the motor and ICE. There is no extra belt.
Your sketch shows the car being over 4 feet wide where the motor is.
That's plenty to have the motor, ICE, and bearings for the trailing arm
for the rear wheel all in line.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > Plus a bike transmission and clutch just won't hold
> > up to pushing a 1500+ EV and itself.
>
> There are bikes that weigh this much.
Yeah, I think a fully-decked-out Goldwing is well over half a ton!
> > Know of any other cheap but eff 3ph alt, ect, that
> > would work? Looking for something under $500, 50lbs
> > new and 3600rpm or less.
>
> As others have mentioned, there are some like the Ecycle. You could also
> replace the rotor of an alternator with a PM rotor to raise efficiency.
Can't find power curves at the ecycle site - they state "motor/generator is
greater than 96% efficient under some circumstances". The motors from Perm
Motor (http://www.perm-motor.de/index_e.html) show power curves - their
synchronous motors appear to be the same as their generators, so might be used
either way. These are probably too pricey, but at least their PMG-132 is
cheaper than a similar LEM-200 from Lynch (still more than twice the price of
an Etek).
> Again, I'm not sure you understand. All I'm saying is that the motor and
> ICE are mounted with their shafts lined up end-to-end. There is a
> centrifugal clutch between the motor and ICE. There is no extra belt.
>
> Your sketch shows the car being over 4 feet wide where the motor is.
> That's plenty to have the motor, ICE, and bearings for the trailing arm
> for the rear wheel all in line.
Run a ICE's output via electric clutch through a dual-shaft bldc or AC motor
directly connected to a motorcycle shaft-drive. Use another, smaller
alternator/bldc at the ICE to charge the pack whether or not driving the wheels
(i.e. lower speeds); if you only engage the clutch at freeway speeds, you
shouldn't need a standard transmission. Most conversions with trannys work on 2
gears, so, for this setup, the drive motor handles low speeds (and perhaps
"power boost" added with the generator/motor when you floor it at high speeds)
and the ICE handles 45mph or above, unless you manually over-ride to keep it
pure EV.
I post this idea every time a ground-up hybrid is discussed, did it even before
Toyota released the first Prius, and haven't seen any argument against it, but
I'm about as far from an engineer as it gets - everything I've learned about
EVs came from this list!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:01:06 -0700, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>I think you are mistaken. Automotive wire is NOT a good choice for high
>voltage wiring in an EV.
And I think you've been caught giving a wrong answer, probably colored
by your hatred of the auto industry, and just won't let it go. Ergo,
this is the end of this thread for me.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the EV is quiet, how do you know if you put it in
the wrong gear?
Also, is there a barebones list of components needed
to make an ev?
1-adapter plate
2-Motor
3-Controller
4-Battery Box
5-Batteries
6-Battery Cables
7-Meter
8-Charger
thanks
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< >I think you are mistaken. Automotive wire is NOT a good choice for high
>voltage wiring in an EV.
And I think you've been caught giving a wrong answer, probably colored
by your hatred of the auto industry, and just won't let it go. Ergo,
this is the end of this thread for me. >>
Whoa -- time to clean the chips off our shoulders, folks! I usually rely on Lee
for the unbiased truth, but even can be wrong...is classifying wire for HV use
this incendiary?! Cogito ergo electrify??
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
(How did I get myself into this mess...)
I feel for you, Lee. I keep getting myself into trouble the same way: I
say something I consider eminently reasonable and logical, and suddenly
find I'm defending myself from pointed remarks on a completely
tangential topic. Maybe it's just us. (I'm never saying anything about
punctuation, in any way whatsoever, ever again.)
Everyone seems to think that I'm arguing about color. I'm not. I'm
saying the color is NOT IMPORTANT. Safety and performance are what
matter. It is more important to use the right TYPE of wire for the job;
not what color it is!
I gotcha the first time. I like your point: who will we allow to make
the decision for us? Will we trust the very people who have
demonstrated their opposition to our goals? Or will we trust ourselves?
While one argument certainly could include "Emergency personnel are
trained to recognize orange wiring," there are counter-arguments. For
instance, I talked to my local firefighters, at two different stations;
neither group had any idea how to recognize high-voltage wiring. They
wouldn't even admit to knowing how to recognize "dangerous" wiring.
Besides, all we'd have to do is retrain them.
In the end, really, I think your sig sums it up:
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
The fact is that "The Powers That Be" aren't the only ones afraid of
that principle. We're afraid of it ourselves. We don't really want the
responsibility of changing the world.
I refuse to let an arbitrary decision by people who didn't have my best
interests in mind constitute my entire decision on anything, let alone
the wiring color in my EV. I'll make a thoughtful, committed decision
instead.
Orange sounds good for positive, with orange-and-black for negative.
I'm sure I've got appropriately colored electrical tape around here
somewhere...
Jude
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/15/05, Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > How about mounting the ICE in-line with the traction motor, and
> > connecting it with a centrifugal clutch? When the ICE is off, it does
> > nothing. When the ICE is idling, it freewheels until its speed goes
> > above (say) 1000 rpm. Then it can pick up the load.
>
> Hmm, clever. I like it.
One slight snag for a direct-drive EV, is that once the ICE is
engaged, it tends to stay engaged while the shaft speed is still above
the clutch engage speed - i.e. if you cut the engine and want to
revert to electric only mode, you have to slow right down to "release"
the engine.. Not a fundamental problem but annoying. An additional
"overrunning clutch" would solve that problem.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Mike,
You can hear the different motor RPM sounds and transmission speeds when
shifting. It may depend on what transmission you have too. My transmission
and axle gears ratio are very low, because I have a EV that weighs over 6000
lbs.
My first gear of 3.5:1 and axle of 5.57:1 has a overall ratio more than
19.495:1 would allow me to go 30 mph's in 1st gear with 32 inch diameter tires.
It is too wicked to leave it in 1st gear to 30, so I normally shift right to
final gear which is 1.0:1.
Most of the time I just leave it in final gear of 1.0:1 which is a 5.57:1
overall ratio to do my driving. My EV has the same acceleration as if when the
350 cu.in. engine was in it.
Other things you could add to the list is:
Main contactor, 400 to 600 amp with coil control by the
controller and/or relay ignition switch.
Two Safety contactors, install on the neg. and pos.
battery lines, control by a relay
control by the ignition switch.
Note: these also isolated controller and motor
while you are charging the batteries.
If you like to have indications on everything that is going on in all the
circuits, which may inform you what or is not what is happening, then you could
add:
AC volt and amp meter for the battery charger AC input's
DC volt and amp meter for the battery charger DC output
Motor Volt and Amp meter- after the controller.
Battery Volt and Amp meter - normally the Emeter.
DC-DC converter Volt and Amp meter.
DC-AC inverter Volt and Amp meter.
Array of display indications in LED's and actual readout forms that light up
with any circuit is on.
Backup control switches, that is used, when a circuit fails, you can bypass
that circuit, while your EV is still moving.
I had perform this only several times, as where a 4 amp fuse blows which are in
blown fuse indicators which tells me what fuse blows and I than switch that
circuit out and install a new circuit, with a array of console switches.
In your list, you should add a very good Main Battery fuse that is a buss bar
bolt in type, Limitron High interrupting type, or 400 to 600 amp rating, which
will take over 1000 of amps for about a minute or up to 200,000 amps for about
a second. My fuse is a Bussman 400 amp Limitron type which is still working
for over 25 years. Today they make a semi-conductor type you could used.
You could also replace all the above indications with a CRT display with lots
of IEEE interfaces. You get only one display of a time, unless you could
install a large CRT that goes across the whole dash and get all the reads out
at the same time.
Another thing you need, is a motor adapter coupler that connects the motor to
the transmission input shaft, directly or thru a flywheel clutch system.
Sometimes the companies that make a motor adapter plate for connection to a
transmission bell housing, supplies this coupler, so it has the correct
spacing.
Roland
>
----- Original Message -----
From: mike golub<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 1:38 AM
Subject: EV noise when shifting? (MIG)
If the EV is quiet, how do you know if you put it in
the wrong gear?
Also, is there a barebones list of components needed
to make an ev?
1-adapter plate
2-Motor
3-Controller
4-Battery Box
5-Batteries
6-Battery Cables
7-Meter
8-Charger
thanks
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "mike golub" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 2:38 AM
Subject: EV noise when shifting? (MIG)
If the EV is quiet, how do you know if you put it in
the wrong gear?
unlike a gas car , you can be in the wrong gear and not know it right away ,
many times I've been in 3ed and not 1st on a take off and though " humm am I
running out of juice , oh I'm in 3ed " no big deal , shift to 2nd , keep
going . putting it in 1 while going 50 would be bad but not easy , never
done that, .
Also, is there a barebones list of components needed
to make an ev?
1-adapter plate
2-Motor
3-Controller
4-Battery Box
5-Batteries
6-Battery Cables
7-Meter
8-Charger
thanks
looks like a good list . this is the way I would buy them
2-Motor
1-adapter plate
3-Controller
5-Batteries
6-Battery Cables
8-Charger
7-Meter
4-Battery Box
_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At highway speeds, shifitng into first can explode the clutch (after
the synchomesh cones hate you). The clutch should explode before you
try to engage the flywheel. This shouldn't harm you, as the pieces
shouldn't escape the bellhousing. If you do engage the flywheel and
motor, they flywheel would rupture. Which can pretty much cut you in
half. You can shift to first in an ICE, like an EV. Generally, it is
pretty difficult to do this, shifting from 4th to 1st instead of 3rd or
5th.
My cousin tried this and exploded the clutch before he managed to do
further harm on a S-10.
Seth
On Apr 16, 2005, at 9:27 AM, Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Mike,
You can hear the different motor RPM sounds and transmission speeds
when shifting. It may depend on what transmission you have too. My
transmission and axle gears ratio are very low, because I have a EV
that weighs over 6000 lbs.
My first gear of 3.5:1 and axle of 5.57:1 has a overall ratio more
than 19.495:1 would allow me to go 30 mph's in 1st gear with 32 inch
diameter tires. It is too wicked to leave it in 1st gear to 30, so I
normally shift right to final gear which is 1.0:1.
Most of the time I just leave it in final gear of 1.0:1 which is a
5.57:1 overall ratio to do my driving. My EV has the same
acceleration as if when the 350 cu.in. engine was in it.
Other things you could add to the list is:
Main contactor, 400 to 600 amp with coil control by the
controller and/or relay ignition switch.
Two Safety contactors, install on the neg. and pos.
battery lines, control by a relay
control by the ignition switch.
Note: these also isolated controller and motor
while you are charging the batteries.
If you like to have indications on everything that is going on in all
the circuits, which may inform you what or is not what is happening,
then you could add:
AC volt and amp meter for the battery charger AC input's
DC volt and amp meter for the battery charger DC output
Motor Volt and Amp meter- after the controller.
Battery Volt and Amp meter - normally the Emeter.
DC-DC converter Volt and Amp meter.
DC-AC inverter Volt and Amp meter.
Array of display indications in LED's and actual readout forms that
light up with any circuit is on.
Backup control switches, that is used, when a circuit fails, you can
bypass that circuit, while your EV is still moving.
I had perform this only several times, as where a 4 amp fuse blows
which are in blown fuse indicators which tells me what fuse blows and
I than switch that circuit out and install a new circuit, with a array
of console switches.
In your list, you should add a very good Main Battery fuse that is a
buss bar bolt in type, Limitron High interrupting type, or 400 to 600
amp rating, which will take over 1000 of amps for about a minute or up
to 200,000 amps for about a second. My fuse is a Bussman 400 amp
Limitron type which is still working for over 25 years. Today they
make a semi-conductor type you could used.
You could also replace all the above indications with a CRT display
with lots of IEEE interfaces. You get only one display of a time,
unless you could install a large CRT that goes across the whole dash
and get all the reads out at the same time.
Another thing you need, is a motor adapter coupler that connects the
motor to the transmission input shaft, directly or thru a flywheel
clutch system. Sometimes the companies that make a motor adapter
plate for connection to a transmission bell housing, supplies this
coupler, so it has the correct spacing.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: mike golub<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 1:38 AM
Subject: EV noise when shifting? (MIG)
If the EV is quiet, how do you know if you put it in
the wrong gear?
Also, is there a barebones list of components needed
to make an ev?
1-adapter plate
2-Motor
3-Controller
4-Battery Box
5-Batteries
6-Battery Cables
7-Meter
8-Charger
thanks
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon??? you've already seen it?
I doubt that...
Unless you haunt the dark business parks of Kingston Washington.
So OK it 640 amp hours at 36 volts it's a Exide Work Hog Fork Truck battery.
And at first charge looked to have less than 300 watt hours in it. It should
have 23,040 watt hours ...
Rehabbing the dead... I have it up to 1600 watt hours now.
John is on the way for a Eco fest , and it's pouring up here. Sigh....
playing with EVs in the rain...
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: 2173 lbs AGM
> I would bite, but I've already seen it, so that would be cheating. I bet
if
> you told everyone the voltage of the pack they would know what you're
> talking about.
>
> >From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: 2173 lbs AGM
> >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:51:42 -0700
> >
> >Now that it looks like I am back on the list..
> >
> >Andbody want to hear about a 2173 LBS AGM for a fork truck??
> >Yes it's a EV ,Yes it involves Madman and Plasma(Water) Boy. Yes there's
> >Drama... and heart break. Broken stuff and hours of praying to slowly
> >counting meters...
> >
> >It was DOA, but I have it on the mend.....
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone had a chance to test the "new & improved" power cheqs?
http://www.powerdesigners.com/powercheq.htm
Besides balancing while charging or under power, they do it while
sitting idle.
I'm hoping this will reduce the problem of imbalance from unequal
self-discharge. Cars left unplugged for long periods, then charged up
once and driven can have batteries damaged. (If they don't have a Lee
Hart Bat Bridge or equivalent.)
But will individual cells still get out of whack despite the
inter-battery charge shunting? IE do we really just have to keep
periodically (over) charging a parked car?
- John
John Foster
VEVA Tresurer
Dynasty Electric Car Co
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Did you not come down to Portland to pick it up? Wayland showed it to me
while it was still in the back of his work truck.
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: 2173 lbs AGM
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:56:33 -0700
Damon??? you've already seen it?
I doubt that...
Unless you haunt the dark business parks of Kingston Washington.
So OK it 640 amp hours at 36 volts it's a Exide Work Hog Fork Truck
battery.
And at first charge looked to have less than 300 watt hours in it. It
should
have 23,040 watt hours ...
Rehabbing the dead... I have it up to 1600 watt hours now.
John is on the way for a Eco fest , and it's pouring up here. Sigh....
playing with EVs in the rain...
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 9:07 PM
Subject: RE: 2173 lbs AGM
> I would bite, but I've already seen it, so that would be cheating. I
bet
if
> you told everyone the voltage of the pack they would know what you're
> talking about.
>
> >From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: <[email protected]>
> >Subject: 2173 lbs AGM
> >Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:51:42 -0700
> >
> >Now that it looks like I am back on the list..
> >
> >Andbody want to hear about a 2173 LBS AGM for a fork truck??
> >Yes it's a EV ,Yes it involves Madman and Plasma(Water) Boy. Yes
there's
> >Drama... and heart break. Broken stuff and hours of praying to slowly
> >counting meters...
> >
> >It was DOA, but I have it on the mend.....
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< Orange sounds good for positive, with orange-and-black for negative.
I'm sure I've got appropriately colored electrical tape around here
somewhere...
Jude >>
How about green for negative(DC)/neutral(AC)? They list it as an option at
http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--2-0.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Most EVs use two (or more) gears because the highway speed gear doesn't
have enough torque for starting/hills, and you can't do highway speeds in
the start/hill gear without the motor going into self-disassembly mode.
It doesn't matter whether the motor is driving or idling when you exceed
it's safe RPMs, the results are the same.
So, unless your motor has enough torque to start in the same gear it can
survive highway speeds in, you'll still need two gears.
> (i.e. lower speeds); if you only engage the clutch at freeway speeds, you
> shouldn't need a standard transmission. Most conversions with trannys work
> on 2
> gears, so, for this setup, the drive motor handles low speeds (and perhaps
> "power boost" added with the generator/motor when you floor it at high
> speeds)
> and the ICE handles 45mph or above, unless you manually over-ride to keep
> it
> pure EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings,
I'm Kevin, and the latest newbie to your list, and have recently become
enamored with the idea of converting to an Electric vehicle. I work for a
small company in Deming, WA that manufactures hydro electric power units, so I
will even be charging the vehicle off of hydroelectric power for the most part.
I'm a classic car buff, and have always avoided newer vehicles, and so Im
hoping to modernize an old van I have that I have driven for many years.
My target Vehicle is a '66 Dodge A-100, With a curb weight of approx. 3200
pounds with a V-8 motor. (3 spd. man trans) I am hoping to create a cruising
range of 50 miles, to allow me to commute to work, and look forward to learning
from everyone on this list.
Khaos Inc.
Http://www.disgruntledpunk.com
ICQ-19235792 AIM-Khaosinc
Yahoo-Slightlykhaotic
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am falling in love with this EV.Dead on arrival from the auction its
battery pack only had 400+ miles on it.Thanks to Rich grayman Rudman we are
getting
35 miles per charge.He loaned me an avcon.I have over 400 miles on it myself
with the ac on. Dennis Berube
--- End Message ---
