EV Digest 4297
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) LeCar Disc Brakes
by Mike Ferro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Batt-Bridge monitor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Alabama and suggestions
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Problem with T-Rex throttle setting
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) RE: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) stupid lithium tricks
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Ford IRS
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by "Lord Khaos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by "Lord Khaos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: about PHEV
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New EV Dragster
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by James D Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Problem with T-Rex throttle setting
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) List of Cars Aerodynmaic Cd
by "Don Cameron \(New Beetle EV\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Which insulation for battery box?(MIG)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Lithium safety (Re: Having second...
by "Andrea Bachus Kohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: about PHEV
by "Andrea Bachus Kohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) are there better brake pads?(MIG)
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: about PHEV
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I posted a couple weeks ago about the rear drum brakes on my Renault
LeCar, and while they're fixed, I have found the front disc brakes are
now giving me trouble. I put the car on jack stands and found that the
front wheels required substantial force to turn. After closer inspection
the disc brake pads appear to be dragging. Does anybody have any idea
how to adjust the front disc brakes on the LeCar? Do I need to replace
them, or is there a simple fix?
Thanks
Mike Ferro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jamie Marshall (GAMES) wrote:
>> How stable would the output of an opto-isolator be in this type
>> of situation? Would there be a large [temperature coefficient]?
An optocoupler is stable in the short run, but drifts over time and with
temperature. The drift isn't too bad; you can get 10% accuracy, but not
1% with simple circuits.
The first circuit I described uses the optocoupler as a simple on/off
digital device, so drift is not a problem. The zener diodes (or whatever
you use as a zener equivalent) are what set the high/low thresholds.
If you want to use the optos in linear mode, then I would use a pair of
them differentially. That way drift over time and temperature tend to
cancel out. You could certainly achieve 5% accuracy this way, and 1% is
possible with careful testing and finesse.
Much better than this, and you'll need to go to those $10 parts. :-)
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From the phrase " motor is making the right sounds" I would look at the
drive coupling/clutch/inputshaft area.
Does it have an aux shaft you can turn while in gear to see if motor is
still connectied? or take off brush guard, put in 3rd gear and push it
while you look to see if commutator moves.
what kind of vehicle? RWD, FWD?
Did it break under load or at RPM, quietly or was there a noise?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
This was two year ago, so maybe someone else will have better instruction.
First you disconnect the motor wire from the controller.
Then you floor your go pedal.
And this is the part I forget, There are two pots on the controller,
You turn one all the way on and the red or yellow led comes on, you
then back off the pot till the led goes out.
I hope someone else jump in here !!
That should do it.
Robert Salem
81 vw pickup, 240volt hawkers, 11" kostov, Z2K
fastest front wheel ev(that is to egg madman on)
> I am oh-so-ready to start EV grinning...and I do have that grin...but I
> have been unable to get the throttle ramping set on the T-Rex 1000 in my
> new-to-me Porsche.
> I wasn't able to get the yellow LED to light no matter what we did, and
> I can't seem to get it set so that I can leave a stop as fast as a 36
> volt golf cart...
> This is running at a nominal 204 volts with Yellow tops (17 batteries on
> its way to 20) and the 1K t-Rex which moved the BMW (which was a much
> heavier EV) nicely at 192 volts.
> Anybody had experience with this?
> Thanks-
> MIchael B.
>
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The plate is being built by a third party so I'm not sure what the
factors are in the decision they made on the original design.
Nevertheless, I've forwarded you machinist's concerns to him. Hopefully
I'll get a good answer on that.
Thanks Victor,
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
Steve Marks wrote:
> The plates will be 1/2 inch thick aluminum. I'm no mechanical
engineer
> either but I'm assured by the builder they'll take the 1000 ft lbs of
> torque the motors can put out. However, since we have a tranny, it
> seems unlikely we'll be able to use that much torque before breaking
the
> tires loose in first gear.
>
> Are there any mechanical engineers here who could comment on this?
>
> Steve
I'm not the one, but can relay what I've been told by one who made my
plate. ALl depends on the type of aluminum and temper.
You can have it almost as strong as steel, but it will be very brittle.
You'd *want* to reserve for some flex, but this means less strength.
He asked me why not make a plate out of webbed steel rather
than aluminum. Cutouts in steel may be larger for the same
strength and overall weight *may* end up be lower - depending
on how skillfully those webs are placed.
Radial links will brake when twisted, you have to make
them at the angles so they are compressed (or stretched),
but not bent. Look at the bycicle sprockets - most "links"
are not straight radial.
I couldn't comment on that.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I thought I would add ProEV's experiences to the 'how safe are lithium
cells" thread.
We have been working with Kokam's Lithium Polymer cells and have managed a
few spontaneous destructive tests. Despite the high energy density of these
things, we have not blown or burned anything up (not counting that one
shirt).
Stupid trick 1: Short Circuit
When we were assembling our battery stacks, we managed to short circuit two
fully charged cells. There was a flash and one of the tabs instantly burned
away along with a little of the shirt of the guy holding it. With the tab
gone, the circuit was gone and the incident over. The whole thing was so
quick that the body of the batteries did not get warm. Both batteries were
fine except one did not have enough of a tab left to use in the car.
Stupid trick 2: Breaking open battery under 600 amp load
On our first race weekend with the Kokam cells we failed to adequately
secure them. Under hard cornering (about 1 G), the 16 cell stack seems to
have shifted and all the weight came to rest on the corner of the one cell.
We think the corner of the pouch opened under this mechanical strain.
Suddenly I was in a cloud of white smoke. I drove the car for around another
1/2 a mile before pulling to the side of the road. During that 1/2 mile I
continued to pull around 400 amps out of the battery and through
regenerative braking recharge the battery at around 200 amps. This produced
more smoke<G>.
I pulled to the side of the road and waited (with hand on the fire
extinguisher button) for the smoke to dissipate. Then I drove the car
another mile back to the trailer. Three months later when we disassembled
the pack, the cell was reading zero volts, one corner was open and the PVC
plastic sheet between the battery and the next was partially melted. The two
cells on either side had some cosmetic damage but otherwise were fine.
Stupid trick 3: Discharging a cell to zero volts under load.
This trick we have done twice. The first time was during track testing where
we were pulling 200 amps out and regenning 280 amp back into the cell.
Voltage went to zero but we continued to drive for another 4.5 miles. The
cell looked a little swollen and read 0 volts when we removed it but
otherwise looked fine.
The next time was during a ten lap race. Halfway through the race a cell
dropped below 2.5 volts. We drove it another 11 miles with 200 amps out and
280 amp in. We recharged it in series with the rest of the pack. It took a
charge but it's voltage spiked before the other cells fully charged. We then
raced it at 600 amps out 280 amps in for 2.25 miles. It immediately dropped
to 0 volts. After about a mile and a half, I began to smell that bad cell
smell and the temperature gauge for that cell went to above 70 C. I drove it
back to the trailer.
When we disassembled the stack, the cell's green plastic cover was melted a
little in one corner and the cell was swollen.
We haven't managed any overcharging stupid tricks yet. This is a scenario we
are curious about.
Kokam website says no explosion or fires under overcharge, forced discharge,
short circuit, heating, crush, impact. It looks like these tests were
carried out on cell phone size cells though
http://www.kokam.com/english/biz/safety.html. There is also a MSDS on this
page.
Here is Kokam's recommended precautions:
http://www.kokam.com/english/biz/precaution.html
So far, despite our abuse, the Kokam cells seem fairly safe. Your mileage
may vary!
Cliff
www.ProEV.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges"
> I advise you to download free Designflex 2K to make all your calculation.
http://www.gates.com/europe/index.cfm?location_id=3433
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yup, it was me. I wanted an IRS for my Mitsubishi conversion... Wasn't asking
specifically for T'bird, just what ones would do. If you think a T'bird would
do, send me the pics.
Thanks
Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave"
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:53 PM
Subject: Ford IRS
Was it someone on this list that was looking at independant rear suspension
systems, and asked for some pictures of the Thunderbird unit? Sorry to be off
topic here.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been looking at the problem, and my short term and long term
solutions are different. For the short term, I was simply planning a bench
seat, and a bed in the back (it is a 60's hippy van after all) and simply
have hinged compartments for the battery. For the long term (read that
after I actually have things working and decide an electric vehicle is
practical for me which still appears a toss up from my reading so far) then
a cage where the gas tank is currently, and 2 running the sides of the frame
rails in between the body and the frame should allow for approx 20-24
batteries (using the yellow top in my truck as a measuring guide). Then
simply cut the floors and install hinges and carpeting. You would never know
they were there.
As for extra weight in the van, from the factory, they were rated to carry
2100 pounds. When I'm also loosing a 600 pound motor and accessories, I
really don't think there's a problem with weight. And with spare parts for
older vehicles, My side business is dealing in parts specifically classic
mopars, and most parts for them are still readily available on the off
chance its something I don't already have kicking around here.
Admittedly the world of EV's is very new to me, but I have been doing a lot
of reading in the last month or so, and I am reading every bit of info I see
here.
My main issue with converting a newer vehicle, is mainly I don't like them.
Don't like the looks, think they are over complicated, and fragile. Not to
mention, when I already have 8 cars, buying another one for a project
doesn't seem to make any sense, when I have a platform I already know inside
and out. (5 years and over 100K on this van for me) and love.
I don't mean to appear argumentative, as I know most everyone here has a lot
more experience with EV's and conversions than I do, but I felt a need to
answer many of the questions/comments that had been put out there.
I am still concerned that I am not going to be able to get the range I need
in the area I live without alot more expense than I was originally planning
for this project. especially if I have a need to outaccelerate your average
NW slug at stoplights. But I can continuing listening and reading... and
trying to find more pennies to count.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:31 PM
Subject: Re: Build an EV from the ground up
> Otmar,
> I've been wanting to comment on the van thread, because I don't think a
van
> would be very good for floodies, unless he's going to cut holes in the
> floor to access them. Even with sealed batteries, you still need to check
> interconnects on a low voltage (144V), high current EV. Think pickup
truck,
> which is designed to carry extra weight, with a tilt bed to access the
> batteries, which are hung down low...
>
> Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
> Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
> http://www.devc.org/
> Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
> Racing Association:
> http://www.nedra.com/
> Lyons, CO
> 1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
> 1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>
> >Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 12:35:40 -0700
> >From: Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> <snip>
>
> >Still, I really like his Van as a platform. Looks like a good base
> >for a utility EV.
> >
> >Have fun!
> >--
> >-Otmar-
> >
> >http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
> >http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.19 - Release Date: 4/20/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Philippe, I'll check out that software.
Does anyone know what the top fuel guys use for their blower belts? When you
consider its width, the pulleys on the Ghia look an awful lot like ones they
use.
Compare
http://www.ghiamonster.com/images/RLR%202005-04-19/Mvc-009s.jpg
to
http://www.kalittaracing.com/2005/DK_HOUSTON_UP/pages/DSC01528.htm
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe Borges
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
Steve,
be carreful with torque and speed on synchronous belts, Gates poly chain is
one of the best polyurethane/kevlar belt (so strong she can outlife chain)
BUT you have to validate your design before testing, don't make same mistake
than Gone postal ;^)
You need Gates PolyChain 14M-PCGT2 or Powergrip 14M-PGGT3
pitch 14 (biggest available)
choose maximum width 90mm or 125mm, for your power level maybe you need two
side by side (so more than 1000KW transmission is ok)....
be carreful with belt speed because Polychain degrade faster after 4000
rev/m, Powergrip GT3 is ok up to 10 000 rev but have less torque resistance.
be carefull with motor pulley teeth number, not enough and torque is going
to kill belt teeth at launch.
I advise you to download free Designflex 2K to make all your calculation.
fascinating project,keep us posted please,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
The information contained in this email message is being transmitted to and is
intended for the use of only the individual(s) to whom it is addressed. If the
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that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message is strictly
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wasn't sure if it was already posted..
http://www.disgruntledpunk.com
its neglected and disorganized, but kinda fun.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hurley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: Build an EV from the ground up
> At 12:35 PM -0700 on 4/19/05, Otmar wrote:
>
> >Check out his website, I suspect he's earned the title.
>
> I must have missed the link. I'd like to see it. What's the address?
Thanks!
> --
>
>
> Auf wiedersehen!
>
> ______________________________________________________
> "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
>
> "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
> of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
> women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
>
> "..No."
>
> "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
>
> -Real Genius
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.17 - Release Date: 4/19/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm kind of new at this so excuse me if I misstep...
I'm wondering what kind of batteries you are running. You said 90Ah LiIons
and a mixed pack? Are you mixing Lead Acid with your LiIons? If so, you
are really limiting your pack due to the lead acids.
No, mixed I meant new fresh cells and few old ones from the bad batch
few people got (these were sitting on the shelf for longer than suppose
to, and also built before some manufacturing process improvements took
place). So 80 of my cells are newer/improved and 16 are old.
I do not mix LiIons with other chemisrties, but this was suggested
by others and technicaly will work. Aside configuration for drive
issues, It would be twice as complicated to charge such a hybrid pack
(both chemistries should be charged separately), realistically meaning
two charges would be needed.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe, please do not believe what you see on TV or even everything you
read on this list. The belts on "Gone Postal" DID NOT break due to torque.
They broke because the bearing blocks we ordered were supposed to be rigid
and in functionality the bearing ended up moving causing the belts to be
severely out of line so much so that they were forced to ride up over the
teeth and spin thus destroying the belt. F.T. aka Don Crabtree had
calculated their strength and I have every reason to believe they would have
held with the proper bearing blocks.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
Steve,
be carreful with torque and speed on synchronous belts, Gates poly chain is
one of the best polyurethane/kevlar belt (so strong she can outlife chain)
BUT you have to validate your design before testing, don't make same mistake
than Gone postal ;^)
You need Gates PolyChain 14M-PCGT2 or Powergrip 14M-PGGT3
pitch 14 (biggest available)
choose maximum width 90mm or 125mm, for your power level maybe you need two
side by side (so more than 1000KW transmission is ok)....
be carreful with belt speed because Polychain degrade faster after 4000
rev/m, Powergrip GT3 is ok up to 10 000 rev but have less torque resistance.
be carefull with motor pulley teeth number, not enough and torque is going
to kill belt teeth at launch.
I advise you to download free Designflex 2K to make all your calculation.
fascinating project,keep us posted please,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
Gates Poly chain is a belt
I am worried about all the torque and the mounting plates also.
What kind of motors?? Warp What? 7s or 8s?
They look different than the Warp 8s I handled for the Uof W team two
weeks
ago.
I would love to stuff 1000 amps into them and see what happens on the
Dyno.
A bit if historic warnings... the Megawatt monster of Bob Boyds, had
tripple motors and 2 sets. For 6 motors. This package has never performed
as
well as it should.
There was a LOT of parasitic losses and hard to ballence currents and
curves.
It should GO like heck. But it has not impressed me.
The Silver bullet of Tom True's has a single set of these motors from
the Megawatt monster. I have driven it, it's fun and will rip your head
off.
But at 120 volts it's reliable and setting record as of last year.
But we shot for many more volts and all they did was break controllers and
drive train parts. With a Raptor 1200 per motor, and 120 volts They can
atleast make many runs. They broke the rear end halfshaft at Vegas last
year, just playing with it in first gear. GOT torque. Now they need to get
some high end pull. That's going to take more volts and more motor work.
The plates that hold the motor in line needs to be hell for stout, and as
light as they can make it. There's gonna be thousands of pounds of force
trying to crush it and bend it.
And Joe is right in asking how the Brush end is going to be clear for
advancing efforts.
We will see. Steve needs to get it down the track acouple of times before
we
really decend on him for better designs. This one will work.
I have no doubts from the Flywheel clutch face back. The rest is about as
good as it gets.
I wish I had this toy Box of parts to play with....
Gone Postal is a Joke compared to the level of drive train parts that this
Ev will have.
Frankly this level of drive train engineering is WHAT should have been
designed into GP, in the first place.
I am Green with envey.
Steve ???
Need a driver????
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
> Wow. All three motors mounted in thin sheet metal & using one of the
motors
> to be the drive shaft? Nice light plan. Nice three motor
installation.
> Otmar will be envious. That thing should fly. Are you going to use a
Gates
> Poly Chain or belt? LR...
>
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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--- Begin Message ---
Any updates?
On 3/21/05, Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>the motor is in the queue at Warfield now.
> >
> > Any chance of posting some pics of it when you get it? I haven't been
> > able to get a good look at that motor yet. It's very elusive.. (how
> > many do they have queued up anyways and how long is it going to take
> > them to "build it"? Who originally made the 13"? Or does Warfield
> > cast/forge/machine the motor from raw materials themselves? ;)
>
> My understanding is that the Warp 13 is an original design intended
> specifically for racing; it's not a rework of another motor, hence the
> dual windings for series/parallel switching. Netgain has Warfield making
> them from scratch. I hope to get a website going soon; I'll post
> everything including detailed motor pics as soon as the action starts.
>
> Also, Warfield is reportedly swamped with orders for Netgain motors.
> Mostly 8's and some 9's. Lead times on any Warp motors are around 16
> weeks, last time I checked (a couple weeks ago). As annoying as it might
> be if you're in a hurry (I'm certainly not), I can only consider such a
> backlog to be the evidence of overall good news for Netgain.
>
> >
> > Also not to be nosey or prying or anything..(that motor appeals to me
> > too); where did you get it and how much was it? You don't have to
> > answer that if you don't want too.
>
> No secrets here ... Netgain has several resellers around the country and
> elsewhere. The closest one to me is Matches Motors (www.matchesmotors.com)
> and Mark Klemkosky has shown enormous patience in handling my somewhat
> abnormal order. :o) Prices are on his site. The Warp 13 is officially
> still "experimental" but that doesn't mean you can't buy one.
>
> >
> >> the numbers I've gotten from Netgain look *very* impressive.
> >
> > Anything you can repost? Info seems non existent on it..
>
> I need to work out with Netgain what's public and what's not. They've
> sent me some data that's confidential, so I will assume all of it is until
> I get some clarification. One way or another though, any testing I do on
> my finished vehicle will be posted on the website.
>
>
> > voltage and batteries are you planning on using? Are you just going
> > to mount them all in the bed?
>
> Planning for 348V, under the bed and under the hood. As much weight
> between the axles as possible. Empty bed, hopefully with some capacity
> left over for a little bit of hauling capability, but of course this is
> probably wishful thinking.
>
>
> > Got any pics of the truck in progress?
> I'm looking forward to the truck being in progress. :o) Nothing's
> happened with the truck yet; I'm still driving it on the ICE for trips to
> Home Despot and such. Again I'm planning to set up a website for it, which
> will happen Really Soon Now. Since for some reason I couldn't resist
> keeping the tradition of shamefully cheesy, inexcusably punful EV names,
> the truck is going to be called the Ohmbre (har har ... groan) and the
> website will be at www.ohmbre.org. Not that there's anything there now
> but the registrar's parking page.
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Now that is just flat out impressive. Clear back in the 1970's
building car's that weighed ~1500lbs. It's outrageous that nearly all
cars anymore weigh 3,000+ lbs.
Yeah, but if you built that Datsun 1200 for sale today it would weigh
over 2,000 pounds after you put in a suitably powerful motor, added all the
emissions equipment, computers and the bigger alternator to run them, front
and side airbags, air conditioning, power locks and mirrors, padded
bumpers, soundproofing, and stiffened up the body to meet current crash
standards. That's what makes cars today heavier than the flying tincan
deathtraps of old.
David Thompson
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I just listed this and thought it may usefull for
accessory power on an EV
Item # 7509991461
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7509991461
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
If the T-Rex controllers are set the same way as the Raptor controllers
(and I believe they are), then Robert's instructions (quoted below) are
mostly correct.
After *disconnecting* the motor, you power up the controller, "floor"
the accelerator pedal, and turn the "MAX THR" potentiometer
counterclockwise until the Yellow LED turns off. Once it is off (or if
it is already off), turn the potentiometer clockwise until the Yellow
LED _just_ turns on. Release and floor the accelerator again, looking
for the yellow LED to light, to verify the setting is correct.
Then power down the controller, allow the capacitors to drain, and
reconnect the motor.
If after doing this you still don't see the Yellow LED light up when you
are driving the car and flooring the accelerator pedal, it means that
you are not getting wide open throttle because the controller is stuck
in current limit mode on the motor side.
Also, when I was using a Raptor in my Jeep, I noticed that the MAX THR
setting changed by itself a few times, which I guess was due to the
vibrations from driving the vehicle (shame the Raptors didn't use
multi-turn potentiometers for these settings). Something to look out for...
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
First you disconnect the motor wire from the controller. Then you
floor your go pedal. And this is the part I forget, There are two
pots on the controller, You turn one all the way on and the red or
yellow led comes on, you then back off the pot till the led goes out.
Robert Salem
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In my never ending search for a nice body style for the "car from the ground
up", I came across a list of various Car's Aerodynamic Cd:
http://www.teknett.com/pwp/drmayf/tbls.htm
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
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--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
> I was going to build a battery box in a Suburu Station
> Wagon. I was wondering which insulation material was
> the best. My choices are fiberglass batt, cellulous
> (recycle newspaper w/borax fire treatment) or foam.
Cellulose in any form (paper, wood, cotton, etc.) is a bad choice around
lead-acid batteries. It is severely attacked by battery acid, not a good
electrical insulator, will burn, can't support a load, and absorbs
water.
Fiberglass is unaffected by battery acid, nonconductive, and
noncombustible. But it can't support a load, and can absorb water. There
are honeycomb fiberglass panels that could be used, though (orangeboard
etc.).
Plastic foams are generally the best choice. Styrafoam and urethane
foams are unaffected by battery acid, though hydrogen can degrade
styrafoam over time. They are good electrical insulators, can support a
load (batteries can sit on them), and the closed-cell varieties are
nonporous and nonabsorbent. The main drawback is they can burn.
> Also I wonder if that reflective foil would help any.
"Reflectix" and its copycats are not really very good insulators at all.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I personally talked to
their CEO during out meeting in LA. He said with straight face to me
Our battery is safe, safest you can find. I told him: well might be, but
others claim the same thing. He replied "I don't care about others,
I know my battery is safe".
Is this the same CEO that just joined the company 6 weeks ago without any
prior battery experience? I talked to him at EVS21 too. Very likable and
open individual. However, last year at the Advanced Automotive Battery
Conference, I talked to the chief scientist at Kokam. He did not seem to
share the confidence of the current CEO. And someone "saying something with
a straight face" means absolutely nothing.
And while promoting own product is good, promoting it by
trashing competitor's product or using scare tactics is not.
I think any company that promotes safety will have to at one time or another
have to point out the deficiencies of their competition. Since the general
public is not fully aware of the many different flavors that li-ion
technology comes in, it would be a shame for an "event" to occur from a
generic Li-ion battery problem, spread all over the news, would hurt all
li-ion manufacturers by giving the term "li-ion" a bad name. In fact that's
what happened early on when a Apple Laptop had a li-ion battery fire in
'90(?). Li-ion was branded in the public's eye at that time as being
dangerous. And it was. But now there are options.
Of the informed public, most know that generally li-ion has to be treated
gingerly or "something" will happen, not knowing exactly what or to what
extreme. I think Valence just wants people to know there are differences in
li-ion solutions.
The answer is may be, but they want you to believe ONLY their
product is safe. Who else's cells this french man tested?
I believe among handful of manufacturers Valence was the best.
But there are many more out there. When you confront them
with this, they'd say "we don't care", but this proves nothing.
Fortu's cells may well be safer ones, no one just had chance to
try them. How Valence then can claim what they claim?
I think their main claim is " the only safe large format commercially
available lithium-ion rechargeable battery technology" . If Fortu or Sion
or Lithium House or any other battery is safe, but no one can buy it, then
the statement still stands. If a 600 mAh cell (which is not large format)
is safe in a cell phone, then the claim still stands.
Most of the other large format commercially available Li-ion batteries (TS,
Kokam, etc) may have one line printed somewhere deep in their literature
that they do not catch on fire under a certain test. This does not show the
same confidence as a company who stands up and shouts it from the rooftops.
I would suggest any li-ion customer to request as much safety test
information as possible before making a selection. Inquire what
conditions the tests were conducted. Some manufacturers test right up to
the point of failure, but not too failure. A good example is UL1642. This
says that a li-ion cell must not cause flame or fire after raising the
temperature to 150C and hold for 10 minutes. Most cells pass, even
li-cobalt. But what happens if your cell reaches 160C or is held for longer
than 10 minutes? Thermal runaway occurs because the composition breaks down
above 150C releasing oxygen causing even more heat and so on. The real
world is not limited to 150C for 10 minutes. Direct shorts can cause high
internal temperatures, over charging can cause a break down, an accident
crushing the cells could cause a short, etc. Ask for tests that are more
indicative of the type of abuse that one may see in an application that it's
going into. Most batteries are made up of cells in series and parallel.
Ask for test results from assembled units. If 3 cells are being charged in
series and one shorts, the one that shorts may do nothing, but now the other
two are getting overcharged which may cause an event. Those that do test
cells know what's real and what is hype. True, not every li-cobalt cell
will fail under an abuse test. But when one has 7000 cells in a car, you
can imagine it only taking one to cause a cascade of problems.
You say that TS cells are benign, yet they have no fundamental reason to be
any safer than li-cobalt or li-nickel based cathode cells.
Has anyone asked if the company is aware of any fires that were caused by
their batteries.
Marc Kohler
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Better yet, for $9.99
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005040623580603&item=10-2167
I bought 5 of these and they arrived last week. One
has been turned into a human powered generator to
supplement my micro solar battery back-up system.
Another had just been turned into a wind turbine
today. Another 2 would probably be used to get weak
regen for my Sparrow. Humm... May be I should get a
few more.
Ed Ang
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just listed this and thought it may usefull for
> accessory power on an EV
> Item # 7509991461
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7509991461
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, since the nominal voltage is 12.8V, the U1 offers over 512Wh. And
unlike almost every other battery out on the market today, I've heard that
you actually get out the AH rating (or more) on the Valence units.
Marc Kohler
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: about PHEV
This remains to be seen. Running 90Ah LiIons (actual useful
capacity is 70Ag and with my now mixed pack it is more like 50Ah) I can
tell you that for high voltage system around 100 real available Ah is
a minimum for more-less freedom in driving a light low violtage car;
that translates to around 12 kWh pack.
Today their 480Wh battery cost $825 you said, so 12kWh is $20.6k now.
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--- Begin Message ---
Is there such a thing as a brake pad that doesn't make dust?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You got a picture of your human powered generator?
--- Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Better yet, for $9.99
>
>
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005040623580603&item=10-2167
>
> I bought 5 of these and they arrived last week. One
> has been turned into a human powered generator to
> supplement my micro solar battery back-up system.
> Another had just been turned into a wind turbine
> today. Another 2 would probably be used to get
> weak
> regen for my Sparrow. Humm... May be I should get
> a
> few more.
>
> Ed Ang
>
> --- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I just listed this and thought it may usefull for
> > accessory power on an EV
> > Item # 7509991461
> >
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7509991461
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marc,
I'm confused, didn't we just have an email correspondence? Didn't you sign it
Marc Kohler
Business Development Manager
Vehicular Systems
Valence Technology, Inc.
Office (512) 527-2933
Fax (512) 527-2910
Cell (512) 560-0753
www.valence.com
If so, then why are you saying, "I've heard that you actually get out the AH
rating (or more) on the Valence units". You are an employee of Valence,
correct? Don't you think you should identify yourself as an employee instead of
saying "I've heard... " and promote your company. Or as Business Development
Manager do you only 'hear' things and are not privy to actual specs of your
product.
In your previous post about the lithium safety thread you certainly do put down
the other companies, again without identifying yourself as an employee of
Valence. While I admit your product may be safer, I would think that from an
ethical point of view you would identify yourself as an employee of one of the
companies you are discussing.
Rush
Tucson AZ
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: about PHEV
> Actually, since the nominal voltage is 12.8V, the U1 offers over 512Wh. And
> unlike almost every other battery out on the market today, I've heard that
> you actually get out the AH rating (or more) on the Valence units.
>
> Marc Kohler
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Is this going to hold up the field end or the brush end that is slotted?
This will probably break if you use it on the field end to transfer torque.
It needs to transfer the torque from the motor housings to the transmission
housing. I see very little structure in this pattern to transfer the torque.
All I see is weight carrying structure that would be acceptable on the brush
end.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:03 AM
Subject: RE: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
>
> All the motors, I believe, will be turning the same direction. Are you
> concerned about tensioning?
>
> The plates you see are only mockups. The final plates will be webbed.
> Here is an image of what they had in their CAD app before the motors
> were moved to starboard to make room for the drivers' feet:
> http://www.ghiamonster.com/images/CurrentTasks/MotorPlate.JPG .
> Hopefully I'll get a new CAD drawing soon.
>
> The motors were advanced by NetGain for racing. Will there be a reason
> to adjust this timing later? What do you think would be the best place
> to put these access holes and how large should they be?
>
> Steve
>
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