EV Digest 4298
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: are there better brake pads?(MIG)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Lithium safety (Re: Having second...
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Alabama and suggestions
by Richard Marcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) motor connections
by Brian Staffanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: motor connections
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: motor connections
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: about PHEV
by "Andrea Bachus Kohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: about PHEV
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Which insulation for battery box?(MIG)
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: motor connections
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: motor connections
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: motor connections
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: about PHEV
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Golub wrote:
> Is there such a thing as a brake pad that doesn't make dust?
How about the so called "ceramic" brake pads? Vs's standard "organic"
or "semi metallic".
This page states:
"There is no such thing as a NO DUST pad. The very nature of how a
brake works requires that some dust be generated to avoid rotor
vibration (shimmying)."
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Automotive.html
They offer "low dust" pads (ceramic).
You should be able to get ceramic pads at your local parts store.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Golub wrote:
> You got a picture of your human powered generator?
It's late(2:30am) and reading that gave me a weird "flash back" and idea..
Remember that scene from "Soylent Green" (1973) where he is pedaling
that exercise bike to charge up the batteries for the light that is in
the room?
Imagine if every house had exercise bikes and treadmills and they used
alternators for resistance and they all fed into the grid.. ;)
Maybe new bikes and treadmills should all plug in and back feed into
the grid? Could reduce our electricity bills? Remember when
California was having power "shortages"? Not this summer... (Images
of a big boat with lots of people sitting on benches rowing come to
mind.. What if the prison system was a huge "fitness club"? Massive
"exercise program".. Lot's of running on treadmills or pedaling
excercise bikes.. their choice... I could see that turning into big
business.. corruption(local police force needing to fill up a new
prison).. maybe not a good idea..)
With a multi person treadmill, just how much electricity could be
generated..? Could enough power be produced that people could be paid
to manually produce it?
I'm pretty sure people would voluntarily exercise if they could
noticeably reduce their electric bill as a result... (I would..)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i understand your point, note that Valence arrogance is common advertisement
technic:
they talk about a problem...then they explain they are the only one giving
the solution
:^)
i'm not saying nobody will make safe lithium batterie, just actually their
is not a lot company who made it, others will follow on lithium sulphur
experiment and probably make even better product or find better composition.
We talk about Avestor lithium metal polymer, Fortu, 18650 cells (AC
propulsion solution), TS, Saft ;^), Valence, Kontronic Konion the other "our
lithium cell are safe" company probably few more i forgot.
i'm waiting for Fortu batteries production (2006), very promising and...near
home :^)
I'm playing with lithium R/C sized batteries for now (my son is jealous),
lots of experiment have been done and they are less expensive to test than
EV sized batteries:
Saphion experiment:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256379&highlight=Saphions+EDF+Jets
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325379&highlight=Saphion
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240815
Lithium "bad results" (be prepaired to be scared):
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209187
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:53 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium safety (Re: Having second...
> Philippe Borges wrote:
> > hi Victor :^)
>
> Hi Philippe, pity I had no chance to meet you at EVS21...
>
> > Writing "Safe lithium" is like "Black Sun", an oxymoron, though Valence
> > write it Saphion so it's ok ;^)
> > Valence is too expensive for the moment so we will test Kokam soon,
safety
> > is top of check list to find secure solutions, nobody wants to have is
house
> > fired by his EV...talking about better case here.
> >
> > Philippe
>
> My only point was what Valence did is in principle new (cells
> starving for oxygen thus preventing bad reaction), but this doesn't mean
> others can't come up with similar or better solutions, and may be they
> have - just we and Valence are not aware of it.
>
> In general saying we're the best in the world is meaningless
> since no one knbows what else out there being done or has been done.
>
> And while promoting own product is good, promoting it by
> trashing competitor's product or using scare tactics is not.
>
> Did you notice Valence asking in the movie "Is YOUR LiIon battery safe?"
>
> The answer is may be, but they want you to believe ONLY their
> product is safe. Who else's cells this french man tested?
> I believe among handful of manufacturers Valence was the best.
> But there are many more out there. When you confront them
> with this, they'd say "we don't care", but this proves nothing.
>
> Fortu's cells may well be safer ones, no one just had chance to
> try them. How Valence then can claim what they claim?
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
common automotive belt is Gates powergrip with HTD profil, a LOT less torque
capabilities (though compatible) than special polychain GT2 profil.
seems Designflex is not available for download anymore, you have to ask a
CD...
Do you have ref. of your pulley ?
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:48 AM
Subject: RE: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
>
> Thanks Philippe, I'll check out that software.
>
> Does anyone know what the top fuel guys use for their blower belts? When
you consider its width, the pulleys on the Ghia look an awful lot like ones
they use.
>
> Compare
>
> http://www.ghiamonster.com/images/RLR%202005-04-19/Mvc-009s.jpg
>
> to
>
> http://www.kalittaracing.com/2005/DK_HOUSTON_UP/pages/DSC01528.htm
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philippe Borges
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:34 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
>
> Steve,
> be carreful with torque and speed on synchronous belts, Gates poly chain
is
> one of the best polyurethane/kevlar belt (so strong she can outlife chain)
> BUT you have to validate your design before testing, don't make same
mistake
> than Gone postal ;^)
>
> You need Gates PolyChain 14M-PCGT2 or Powergrip 14M-PGGT3
> pitch 14 (biggest available)
> choose maximum width 90mm or 125mm, for your power level maybe you need
two
> side by side (so more than 1000KW transmission is ok)....
> be carreful with belt speed because Polychain degrade faster after 4000
> rev/m, Powergrip GT3 is ok up to 10 000 rev but have less torque
resistance.
> be carefull with motor pulley teeth number, not enough and torque is going
> to kill belt teeth at launch.
>
> I advise you to download free Designflex 2K to make all your calculation.
>
> fascinating project,keep us posted please,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> The information contained in this email message is being transmitted to
and is intended for the use of only the individual(s) to whom it is
addressed. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you
are hereby advised that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error,
please immediately delete.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to misunderstand (i saw too many times your video without
understanding...have to work more on my english level) and thanks to correct
my ignorance of your adventure, i prefer that explanation.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:06 AM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
> Philippe, please do not believe what you see on TV or even everything you
> read on this list. The belts on "Gone Postal" DID NOT break due to torque.
> They broke because the bearing blocks we ordered were supposed to be rigid
> and in functionality the bearing ended up moving causing the belts to be
> severely out of line so much so that they were forced to ride up over the
> teeth and spin thus destroying the belt. F.T. aka Don Crabtree had
> calculated their strength and I have every reason to believe they would
have
> held with the proper bearing blocks.
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:33 PM
> Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
>
>
> Steve,
> be carreful with torque and speed on synchronous belts, Gates poly chain
is
> one of the best polyurethane/kevlar belt (so strong she can outlife chain)
> BUT you have to validate your design before testing, don't make same
mistake
> than Gone postal ;^)
>
> You need Gates PolyChain 14M-PCGT2 or Powergrip 14M-PGGT3
> pitch 14 (biggest available)
> choose maximum width 90mm or 125mm, for your power level maybe you need
two
> side by side (so more than 1000KW transmission is ok)....
> be carreful with belt speed because Polychain degrade faster after 4000
> rev/m, Powergrip GT3 is ok up to 10 000 rev but have less torque
resistance.
> be carefull with motor pulley teeth number, not enough and torque is going
> to kill belt teeth at launch.
>
> I advise you to download free Designflex 2K to make all your calculation.
>
> fascinating project,keep us posted please,
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
>
>
> > Gates Poly chain is a belt
> >
> > I am worried about all the torque and the mounting plates also.
> > What kind of motors?? Warp What? 7s or 8s?
> > They look different than the Warp 8s I handled for the Uof W team two
> weeks
> > ago.
> >
> > I would love to stuff 1000 amps into them and see what happens on the
> Dyno.
> >
> > A bit if historic warnings... the Megawatt monster of Bob Boyds, had
> > tripple motors and 2 sets. For 6 motors. This package has never
performed
> as
> > well as it should.
> > There was a LOT of parasitic losses and hard to ballence currents and
> > curves.
> > It should GO like heck. But it has not impressed me.
> > The Silver bullet of Tom True's has a single set of these motors
from
> > the Megawatt monster. I have driven it, it's fun and will rip your head
> off.
> > But at 120 volts it's reliable and setting record as of last year.
> > But we shot for many more volts and all they did was break controllers
and
> > drive train parts. With a Raptor 1200 per motor, and 120 volts They can
> > atleast make many runs. They broke the rear end halfshaft at Vegas last
> > year, just playing with it in first gear. GOT torque. Now they need to
get
> > some high end pull. That's going to take more volts and more motor work.
> >
> > The plates that hold the motor in line needs to be hell for stout, and
as
> > light as they can make it. There's gonna be thousands of pounds of force
> > trying to crush it and bend it.
> > And Joe is right in asking how the Brush end is going to be clear for
> > advancing efforts.
> > We will see. Steve needs to get it down the track acouple of times
before
> we
> > really decend on him for better designs. This one will work.
> > I have no doubts from the Flywheel clutch face back. The rest is about
as
> > good as it gets.
> >
> > I wish I had this toy Box of parts to play with....
> >
> > Gone Postal is a Joke compared to the level of drive train parts that
this
> > Ev will have.
> > Frankly this level of drive train engineering is WHAT should have been
> > designed into GP, in the first place.
> >
> > I am Green with envey.
> > Steve ???
> > Need a driver????
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 7:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
> >
> >
> > > Wow. All three motors mounted in thin sheet metal & using one of the
> > motors
> > > to be the drive shaft? Nice light plan. Nice three motor
> installation.
> > > Otmar will be envious. That thing should fly. Are you going to use a
> > Gates
> > > Poly Chain or belt? LR...
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.19 - Release Date: 4/20/2005
>
>
>
>
> --
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> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.19 - Release Date: 4/20/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an old washing machine motor rigged up with a friction drive to
the wheel of my exercise bike. I tried it connected to the mains via
a dial-type electricity meter. It is possible by pedalling to get the
meter to stop, and then reverse as you pedal harder.
It's pretty difficult to make any significant amount of energy, I
guess due to the inefficiencies in the friction drive, the old cheap
motor, etc. By pedalling hard for a few hours you might make back one
unit of electricity.. The value would of course be far less than the
cost of the extra food needed to expend that much energy :)
With a more efficient generator, I am sure that you could charge up a
personal electric vehicle of some sort. Perhaps an electric bicycle.
At this point, you begin to wonder if it's worth bothering!
Was Soylent Green really 1973? Blimey. Still, oil production is set
to peak next year, so get ready for it :/
Regards
Evan.
On 4/21/05, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike Golub wrote:
>
> > You got a picture of your human powered generator?
>
> It's late(2:30am) and reading that gave me a weird "flash back" and idea..
>
> Remember that scene from "Soylent Green" (1973) where he is pedaling
> that exercise bike to charge up the batteries for the light that is in
> the room?
>
> Imagine if every house had exercise bikes and treadmills and they used
> alternators for resistance and they all fed into the grid.. ;)
>
> Maybe new bikes and treadmills should all plug in and back feed into
> the grid? Could reduce our electricity bills? Remember when
> California was having power "shortages"? Not this summer... (Images
> of a big boat with lots of people sitting on benches rowing come to
> mind.. What if the prison system was a huge "fitness club"? Massive
> "exercise program".. Lot's of running on treadmills or pedaling
> excercise bikes.. their choice... I could see that turning into big
> business.. corruption(local police force needing to fill up a new
> prison).. maybe not a good idea..)
>
> With a multi person treadmill, just how much electricity could be
> generated..? Could enough power be produced that people could be paid
> to manually produce it?
>
> I'm pretty sure people would voluntarily exercise if they could
> noticeably reduce their electric bill as a result... (I would..)
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/
>
>
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/21/05, Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philippe Borges"
> > I advise you to download free Designflex 2K to make all your calculation.
>
> http://www.gates.com/europe/index.cfm?location_id=3433
>
That's a link to a mention of the CD.
This is a link to the actual download:
http://www.gates.com/designflex/
But you have to register and give your email address before it lets
you get the file.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>Does it have an aux shaft you can turn while in gear
>>to see if motor is
>>still connectied? or take off brush guard, put in
>>3rd gear and push it
>>while you look to see if commutator moves.
I am still new at this stuff. Can you recommend a
guide for identifying these parts and knowing what I
am looking for?
>>what kind of vehicle? RWD, FWD?
Escort. So, FWD.
>>Did it break under load or at RPM, quietly or was
there a noise?
The load was light. I didn't hear a noise. Though the
car has a radio and it was on (news; nothing loud). I
was going down a slight decline so my foot was "off"
the gas, when I put it back on I was surprised the
first thing I noticed was the ammeter didn't budge.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:06:54 -0700
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Alabama and suggestions
From the phrase " motor is making the right sounds" I
would look at
the
drive coupling/clutch/inputshaft area.
Does it have an aux shaft you can turn while in gear
to see if motor is
still connectied? or take off brush guard, put in 3rd
gear and push it
while you look to see if commutator moves.
what kind of vehicle? RWD, FWD?
Did it break under load or at RPM, quietly or was
there a noise?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was looking at a wiring diagram for a Curtis controller to a series motor.
It shows M- connectered to S1, S2 is connected to A2, and A1 connected to B+.
Not understanding motors too well, but assuming that when it says series, it
doesn't matter if A1 is connected to S1, S2 connected to M-, and A2 connected
to B+, or some other variation. Please correct me if this isn't the case.
Thanks,
Brian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to Brian an All,
Brian Staffanson wrote:
> I was looking at a wiring diagram for a Curtis controller to a series motor.
> It shows M- connected to S1, S2 is connected to A2, and A1 connected to B+.
> Not understanding motors too well, but assuming that when it says series, it
> doesn't matter if A1 is connected to S1, S2 connected to M-, and A2 connected
> to B+, or some other variation. Please correct me if this isn't the case.
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
Well, you were correct until you ended with 'or some other variation'. Your two
examples listed, as you correctly say, won't matter as the motor will spin the
same direction connected either way. It's those 2 other variations that will in
fact, matter. M- connected to S2, S1 is connected to A2, and A1 connected to B+
will reverse the motor, and, M- connected to S1, S2 is connected to
A1, and A2 connected to B+ will also reverse the motor.
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got the Curtis controller manual in front of me now, and I've often
wondered if there's a misprint on page 15. Page 9 and the plastic insert
for the 1231C show things wired as I would expect: B+ to A1, A2 to S1, S2
to M-. But page 15 has it this way: B+ to A1, A2 to S2, S1 to M-. In other
words, S1 and S2 have been reversed. Is that a misprint or just an
alternate way of wiring?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Staffanson
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: motor connections
I was looking at a wiring diagram for a Curtis controller to a series motor.
It shows M- connectered to S1, S2 is connected to A2, and A1 connected to
B+. Not understanding motors too well, but assuming that when it says
series, it doesn't matter if A1 is connected to S1, S2 connected to M-, and
A2 connected to B+, or some other variation. Please correct me if this
isn't the case.
Thanks,
Brian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rush,
Yes I am an employee of Valence. But I am also a private individual that
has been on this list since 1992. I think I have the right to express my
own thoughts and opinions without the endorsement or regulation of any
company that I may be affiliated with. In fact, that is why I did not
specifically point it out. I do not want my opinions to be associated with
any company rather they are from my own experiences.
The list is set up, and I believe it is even in one of the rules, that it is
for information sharing purposes. Not direct sales or singular promotional
status. Over the years, I have worked for several EV related companies and
have always tried to remain neutral and level headed about the information I
contribute.
People on this list sometimes complain that there is not enough input from
industry. Well, you pointing out my affiliation and questioning my ethical
nature is one reason why they don't. Some work for public companies (like I
do) and anything we say could be used in such a way as to affect stock
price. Yes, I take a gamble even writing anything about Valence, but I try
to do so in a manner that is consistent with their message that is public
knowledge.
If so, then why are you saying, "I've heard that you actually get out the
AH rating (or more) on the Valence units". You are an employee of Valence,
correct? Don't you think you should identify yourself as an employee
instead of saying "I've heard... " and promote your company. Or as
Business Development Manager do you only 'hear' things and are not privy
to actual specs of your product.
It is a general conseption that representatives of battery manufacturers
seem to exagerate their product's performance. Many would question my
statement if I made it with my title stamped behind it. So I posed the
statement as a person who has been told, by customers, that that is what
they are seeing. It is still true, whether I work at Valence or not.
In your previous post about the lithium safety thread you certainly do put
down the other companies, again without identifying yourself as an
employee of Valence. While I admit your product may be safer, I would
think that from an ethical point of view you would identify yourself as an
employee of one of the companies you are discussing.
I do not feel I ever "put down" other companies. All I did was point out
some grey areas in their data or communications about safety. Did I ever
suggest that anyone buy one battery over another? I'm just like everyone
else on the list. I was want to learn from the experience of others. I was
trying to add my knowledge about the li-ion options as carefully as I could
under the restraints of many different systems. If I immediately identified
myself, I think you would automatically discount my input, thinking it was
coming from a "company man" rathter than from a person who has direct and
indirect experience with the things I write.
I apologize if you think I was somehow trying to be sneaky (which I don't
see how would benefit me or any company I worked for), but I would like to
remain as an individual on this list, one that has 13 years experience in
the EV world to contribute. If someone wants to know more about me, I'm
sure they can google my name. They don't need you sharing our previous
personal correspondence on the list.
Marc Kohler
Valence Employee
Formally worked at Electric Vehicles of Texas
Formally worked at DAX Industries
Formally worked at the Center for Electrochemical Systems and Hydrogen
Research at Texas A&M University.
My Closet Door is open for the world to see.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/21/05, Andrea Bachus Kohler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually, since the nominal voltage is 12.8V, the U1 offers over 512Wh. And
> unlike almost every other battery out on the market today, I've heard that
> you actually get out the AH rating (or more) on the Valence units.
For another data point, in my experience, you get the AH rating (or
more) out of new TS cells as well. I have no affiliation with TS,
just a happy customer so far.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/21/05, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> mike golub wrote:
> > I was going to build a battery box in a Suburu Station
> > Wagon. I was wondering which insulation material was
> > the best. My choices are fiberglass batt, cellulous
> > (recycle newspaper w/borax fire treatment) or foam.
>
> Cellulose in any form (paper, wood, cotton, etc.) is a bad choice around
> lead-acid batteries. It is severely attacked by battery acid, not a good
> electrical insulator, will burn, can't support a load, and absorbs
> water.
>
> Fiberglass is unaffected by battery acid, nonconductive, and
> noncombustible. But it can't support a load, and can absorb water. There
> are honeycomb fiberglass panels that could be used, though (orangeboard
> etc.).
>
> Plastic foams are generally the best choice. Styrafoam and urethane
> foams are unaffected by battery acid, though hydrogen can degrade
> styrafoam over time. They are good electrical insulators, can support a
> load (batteries can sit on them), and the closed-cell varieties are
> nonporous and nonabsorbent. The main drawback is they can burn.
In the earthship that I helped build a couple of years ago
(www.sci-scotland.org.uk)
we used a product called "foamglas" - this is aparrently made from
recycled car windscreens.
http://www.foamglas.co.uk/product-overview.htm
Anyway, it is possible to acheive the same insulation value as normal
plastic foams, although it is usually denser and more expensive. It
just occurred to me that it *might* be the ideal thing to use in
battery boxes, if, as I think it could be, it turns out to be acid
resistant as well as nonconductive and non-hygroscopic.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Brian,
The normal connections for FORWARD or a motor going clockwise looking at the
front of the motor is:
A1 to B+
A2 to S2
S1 to M-
The current flow in the Armature and Field are in one direction.
The normal connections for REVERSED rotation is:
A1 to B+
A2 to S1
S2 to M-
The current flow in the Armature is in the same direction as it was in the
FORWARD connection, but the current flow in the field is in the REVERSED
direction, therefore your motor is turning in the REVERSED direction.
This is one way to remember this. Draw it out as a diagram and apply the
current flow arrows.
If you connected:
A2 to B+
A1 to S1
S2 to M- (same as the above REVERSED connections)
The current flow in the Armature and Field is in the same direction, but is in
the REVERSED direction as the normal flow of current in the FORWARD directions
connections.
I have never connected my motor this way, but I assumed it would be in the
REVERSED direction. Test it out by applying 6 or 12 volts to the motor.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Staffanson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:40 AM
Subject: motor connections
I was looking at a wiring diagram for a Curtis controller to a series motor.
It shows M- connectered to S1, S2 is connected to A2, and A1 connected to B+.
Not understanding motors too well, but assuming that when it says series, it
doesn't matter if A1 is connected to S1, S2 connected to M-, and A2 connected
to B+, or some other variation. Please correct me if this isn't the case.
Thanks,
Brian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So for the 1231C, you'd wire in either FWD or REV, depending on the
direction that your tranny needed to turn (e.g., Honda turns one way and
other manufactures turn the other way)?
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roland Wiench
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 7:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: motor connections
Hello Brian,
The normal connections for FORWARD or a motor going clockwise looking at the
front of the motor is:
A1 to B+
A2 to S2
S1 to M-
The current flow in the Armature and Field are in one direction.
The normal connections for REVERSED rotation is:
A1 to B+
A2 to S1
S2 to M-
The current flow in the Armature is in the same direction as it was in the
FORWARD connection, but the current flow in the field is in the REVERSED
direction, therefore your motor is turning in the REVERSED direction.
This is one way to remember this. Draw it out as a diagram and apply the
current flow arrows.
If you connected:
A2 to B+
A1 to S1
S2 to M- (same as the above REVERSED connections)
The current flow in the Armature and Field is in the same direction, but is
in the REVERSED direction as the normal flow of current in the FORWARD
directions connections.
I have never connected my motor this way, but I assumed it would be in the
REVERSED direction. Test it out by applying 6 or 12 volts to the motor.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Brian Staffanson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 6:40 AM
Subject: motor connections
I was looking at a wiring diagram for a Curtis controller to a series
motor. It shows M- connectered to S1, S2 is connected to A2, and A1
connected to B+. Not understanding motors too well, but assuming that when
it says series, it doesn't matter if A1 is connected to S1, S2 connected to
M-, and A2 connected to B+, or some other variation. Please correct me if
this isn't the case.
Thanks,
Brian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
this just changer the direction .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:17 AM
Subject: RE: motor connections
I've got the Curtis controller manual in front of me now, and I've often
wondered if there's a misprint on page 15. Page 9 and the plastic insert
for the 1231C show things wired as I would expect: B+ to A1, A2 to S1, S2
to M-. But page 15 has it this way: B+ to A1, A2 to S2, S1 to M-. In
other
words, S1 and S2 have been reversed. Is that a misprint or just an
alternate way of wiring?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Staffanson
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: motor connections
I was looking at a wiring diagram for a Curtis controller to a series
motor.
It shows M- connectered to S1, S2 is connected to A2, and A1 connected to
B+. Not understanding motors too well, but assuming that when it says
series, it doesn't matter if A1 is connected to S1, S2 connected to M-,
and
A2 connected to B+, or some other variation. Please correct me if this
isn't the case.
Thanks,
Brian
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:24 PM +0200 on 4/21/05, Philippe Borges wrote:
common automotive belt is Gates powergrip with HTD profil, a LOT less torque
capabilities (though compatible) than special polychain GT2 profil.
seems Designflex is not available for download anymore, you have to ask a
CD...
I have a Copy of the Gates PowerGrip GT2 Drive Design Manual. It's a
179 page PDF. Is this the design book you mean? It's about 5 megs,
but I can email it to those who might want it. Someday, I've got to
actually read te bloody thing. Heh.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
- Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/21/05, Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 12:24 PM +0200 on 4/21/05, Philippe Borges wrote:
> >common automotive belt is Gates powergrip with HTD profil, a LOT less torque
> >capabilities (though compatible) than special polychain GT2 profil.
> >seems Designflex is not available for download anymore, you have to ask a
> >CD...
>
> I have a Copy of the Gates PowerGrip GT2 Drive Design Manual. It's a
> 179 page PDF. Is this the design book you mean? It's about 5 megs,
> but I can email it to those who might want it. Someday, I've got to
> actually read te bloody thing. Heh.
No, they're talking about a software that applies the calculations for
you. I just tried it out and to be honest, I prefer to use the Design
Manual that you mentioned, I've had that for a while and know how to
work it now :)
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://airlabcorp.com/media/Fun/
The old friction resistance exercise machine has been
sitting for a long time since we bought a new one with
magnetic resistance. Since I use it almost everyday,
I figure I should just recharge the batteries instead
of burning it as heat. These motors happen to use the
same type of belt. So, the conversion was relatively
easy. I think this type of machine is much better
than an exercise bike. Using a chair at the back of
it allows you to paddle like a bike. Standing in
front of it allows you to exercise your arm and abs.
Excuse me for the mess in the room. I am in the
middle of rearranging stuff. You can see my server
room (actually a laptop with some external hard
drives) at the back. The room is powered entirely
from 160W of solar panels. The batteries are old
batteries from my EV's. But, in winter, it needs some
supplement from a charger which turns on only when
battery voltage gets too low.
It might surprise some of you that a typical healthy
male could only sustain an output of about 100W-200W
for an hour or so.
The wind turbine is still in the "proof of concept"
stage. I could only get 11V max last evening, but it
was a relatively windless evening. My goal is to get
20V @ 5A or 100W. I will have mount it higher to
clear the neighbor's trees and I will have to switch
to some better blades.
Ed Ang
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mike Golub wrote:
>
> > You got a picture of your human powered generator?
>
> It's late(2:30am) and reading that gave me a weird
> "flash back" and idea..
>
> Remember that scene from "Soylent Green" (1973)
> where he is pedaling
> that exercise bike to charge up the batteries for
> the light that is in
> the room?
>
> Imagine if every house had exercise bikes and
> treadmills and they used
> alternators for resistance and they all fed into the
> grid.. ;)
>
> Maybe new bikes and treadmills should all plug in
> and back feed into
> the grid? Could reduce our electricity bills?
> Remember when
> California was having power "shortages"? Not this
> summer... (Images
> of a big boat with lots of people sitting on benches
> rowing come to
> mind.. What if the prison system was a huge
> "fitness club"? Massive
> "exercise program".. Lot's of running on treadmills
> or pedaling
> excercise bikes.. their choice... I could see that
> turning into big
> business.. corruption(local police force needing to
> fill up a new
> prison).. maybe not a good idea..)
>
> With a multi person treadmill, just how much
> electricity could be
> generated..? Could enough power be produced that
> people could be paid
> to manually produce it?
>
> I'm pretty sure people would voluntarily exercise if
> they could
> noticeably reduce their electric bill as a result...
> (I would..)
>
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rush,
There is only one thing I would concur with your post in which you make this
personal attack on Marc Kohler's ethics, and that is that you are confused.
You are missing some very simple and obvious things. First, let me repeat
what Marc said -- the part that you are so critical of -- and add my own
emphasis, for effect:
"... unlike ALMOST EVERY OTHER BATTERY ON THE MARKET today, I've heard that
you actually get out the AH rating (or more) on the Valence units."
Look at what I have capitalized, which is the operative phrase: "almost
every other battery on the market". Yes, of course Marc works for Valence,
has personally tested Valence batteries, knows their specs inside out, and
thus he can obviously speak first hand, in the first person about THEM (i.e.
Valence batts), without having to say "I've heard ...". But Marc does not
work for Thunder-Sky, Kokam, Saft, or Electrovaya, and he has not PERSONALLY
tested any of the lithium-ion batteries from those companies. BUT ... I
believe that some of his customers HAVE done so, i.e. they have tested both
Valence li-ions and li-ions from other manufacturers, AND they have REPORTED
back to Marc that they have gotten the full Ah rating out of Valence's
li-ions but have not gotten the full Ah rating out of some of those other
manufacturers' li-ions. Therefore, strictly speaking, Marc is being
semantically correct and accurate by saying that "unlike almost every other
battery on the market", he has "HEARD that you actually get out the Ah
rating (or more) the Valence units."
The second point I would like to make about your "confusion" (your own
self-characterization, not my characterization of you) is that it is no
secret to most people on this list that Marc Kohler works for Valence. I
don't know how long you've been on this list. I myself am a relative
newcomer here, having only been on the list for about 9 months or so. But
many people who have been here for a while know that Marc works for Valence.
I think you're missing something about the nature of this list and who is on
it. There are many suppliers to the EV business that are on this list, or
to be more accurate, I should say that some of the employees of these
suppliers are on this list. But they are here not as spokespersons speaking
officially and authoritatively for their companies. Quite the opposite
actually, they are here as individuals, and they often qualify their remarks
by making the point that they are expressing their own individual opinions
which do not necessary (and often actually DON'T) reflect their company's
opinion or official policy. And to be extra careful to make that
distinction and Chinese Wall of separation between an individual's opinions
and those of his employer, some listers go to the extent that Marc does of
not posting from his work email address but rather using his home email
address. That is just a smart thing to do career-wise, if one wants to keep
one's job, because that way no one can misconstrue anything Marc writes as
being his employer's opinion and potentially get Marc into trouble at work
or with the company's shareholders if someone sees something posted on a
forum somewhere. Now if you're the president or CEO of your company, that's
one thing, and at that level you ARE the one who makes company policy and
can speak authoritatively for your company, because YOUR opinion pretty much
IS the company's opinion. But Marc is not the president or CEO of Valence
and neither is his immediate boss. So Marc has to be careful in that
regard, which indeed he is. But all of what I have just described is
actually what makes this list so valuable -- because all of these highly
knowledgeable experts and industry insiders are here on this list to share
their knowledge and opinions with us, AND, more importantly, they can do so
freely as individuals without the usual corporate constraints. So they can
speak much more freely and openly than their companies ever would or do.
Now, does that mean that these people are somehow able to completely detach
themselves from their paychecks and be completely unbiased here on this
list? Of course not. This is a pretty sophisticated and intelligent bunch
of people on this list. I don't think there's anyone here who would be so
naive to think something like that. So yes, of course Marc has a vested
interest, and most people here already know that, and so we all take that
into consideration when reading his posts, just like we do with people like
Rich and Ot about the merits of DC systems and their superior power, and
Victor on the merits of AC systems and their excellent energy efficiency and
a whole range of things like that. Many of these people here have something
to sell. We all know that. But what distinguishes all these people I have
mentioned (and many others on this list) is that despite their obvious
vested interests, they all make a big effort and go a long way towards being
*relatively* balanced in their views and are very helpful and generous with
their time and advice to others. So I really don't think it's fair to
impugn Marc Kohler's ethics here.
Finally the last thing I would like to say is that I gather from your recent
posts that you must have contacted Marc Kohler and asked for price quotes on
Valence's li-ions, which he obviously gave you, because I see that you then
turned around and posted his price quote virtually verbatim on this list.
I'm not criticizing that. Actually I think it's great that you did so,
because all of us are curious and want to know these things and keep up with
price changes, etc. So I was glad that you did that. But if you then turn
around and criticize this same person who just gave you a price quote and
impugn his ethics in public on the entire list for all to see, well, I don't
what EV project you're working on, but that's certainly not a very good way
to try to start off a good professional working relationship with one of
your key suppliers (probably your most important supplier, actually). If
you are going to do an EV project using an advanced battery chemistry, you
will have to work very closely with your battery supplier for many months,
and it would certainly be in your best interests not to insult him in front
of the whole community here like that.
Well, good luck with your project.
Best regards,
Charles Whalen
Note: I do not work for Valence, am not selling their batteries, and do not
own any stock or options in the company or otherwise have any financial
interests in Valence.
On Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:23 AM, Rush wrote:
Marc,
I'm confused, didn't we just have an email correspondence? Didn't you sign
it
Marc Kohler
Business Development Manager
Vehicular Systems
Valence Technology, Inc.
Office (512) 527-2933
Fax (512) 527-2910
Cell (512) 560-0753
www.valence.com
If so, then why are you saying, "I've heard that you actually get out the
AH rating (or more) on the Valence units". You are an employee of Valence,
correct? Don't you think you should identify yourself as an employee
instead of saying "I've heard... " and promote your company. Or as
Business Development Manager do you only 'hear' things and are not privy
to actual specs of your product.
In your previous post about the lithium safety thread you certainly do put
down the other companies, again without identifying yourself as an
employee of Valence. While I admit your product may be safer, I would
think that from an ethical point of view you would identify yourself as an
employee of one of the companies you are discussing.
Rush
Tucson AZ
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: about PHEV
Actually, since the nominal voltage is 12.8V, the U1 offers over 512Wh.
And
unlike almost every other battery out on the market today, I've heard
that
you actually get out the AH rating (or more) on the Valence units.
Marc Kohler
--- End Message ---
