EV Digest 4299
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: treadmill motor - pulley
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Need to find - 250volt / 40amp / 12hr timed charger ? Sources ?
by "Steve Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Need to find - 250volt / 40amp / 12hr timed charger ?
Sources ?
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: are there better brake pads?(MIG)
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Need to find - 250volt / 40amp / 12hr timed charger ? Sources ?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: about PHEV
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Electric NASCAR fans
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: LeCar Disc Brakes
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Valence, etc.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Build an EV from the ground up
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Batt-Bridge monitor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: are there better brake pads?(MIG)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: about PHEV
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Lithium safety (Re: Having second...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
At 4:24 PM +0100 on 4/21/05, Evan Tuer wrote:
No, they're talking about a software that applies the calculations for
you. I just tried it out and to be honest, I prefer to use the Design
Manual that you mentioned, I've had that for a while and know how to
work it now :)
Ah. OK. I suppose I really should have checked the Gates website
before shooting my mouth off, eh? Heh.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
- Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could you not connect the turbine to a larger sprocket and then to the
motor with a smaller sprocket to "spin up" the motor to higher
voltages. Yes, you would need larger/lighter blades, but that should
work.
I REALLY like this idea and if I could built them cheaply I'd love to
build 10-12 36v wind turbines.
James
On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 11:33, Edward Ang wrote:
> http://airlabcorp.com/media/Fun/
>
> The wind turbine is still in the "proof of concept"
> stage. I could only get 11V max last evening, but it
> was a relatively windless evening. My goal is to get
> 20V @ 5A or 100W. I will have mount it higher to
> clear the neighbor's trees and I will have to switch
> to some better blades.
>
> Ed Ang
>
> --- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Mike Golub wrote:
> >
> > > You got a picture of your human powered generator?
> >
> > It's late(2:30am) and reading that gave me a weird
> > "flash back" and idea..
> >
> > Remember that scene from "Soylent Green" (1973)
> > where he is pedaling
> > that exercise bike to charge up the batteries for
> > the light that is in
> > the room?
> >
> > Imagine if every house had exercise bikes and
> > treadmills and they used
> > alternators for resistance and they all fed into the
> > grid.. ;)
> >
> > Maybe new bikes and treadmills should all plug in
> > and back feed into
> > the grid? Could reduce our electricity bills?
> > Remember when
> > California was having power "shortages"? Not this
> > summer... (Images
> > of a big boat with lots of people sitting on benches
> > rowing come to
> > mind.. What if the prison system was a huge
> > "fitness club"? Massive
> > "exercise program".. Lot's of running on treadmills
> > or pedaling
> > excercise bikes.. their choice... I could see that
> > turning into big
> > business.. corruption(local police force needing to
> > fill up a new
> > prison).. maybe not a good idea..)
> >
> > With a multi person treadmill, just how much
> > electricity could be
> > generated..? Could enough power be produced that
> > people could be paid
> > to manually produce it?
> >
> > I'm pretty sure people would voluntarily exercise if
> > they could
> > noticeably reduce their electric bill as a result...
> > (I would..)
> >
> > http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070723/
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
The motor mentioned earlier:
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005040623580603&item=10-2167
Looks great, especially at $10! Could a more standard pulley be put on
this shaft? I understand the shaft is threaded - I don't imagine it has
a keyway?
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone know new or used sources for a charger with the following
specs?
- 250 volt DC output
- 40 amps
- 12 hour manual charge timer
- 240 single phase source
I have a 1993 Dodge TeVan with Eagle Picher Nife (nickel-iron)
batteries. I haven't been able to get the stock on-board charge to work
since I purchased the vehicle a year ago, and no one knows how to repair
it.
As far as I can tell I am the only remaining Nife TeVan trying to
operate.
I need to find a stand alone charger replacement asap.
Suggestions appreciated, thx,
Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If I were you and seeing how those motors are so cheap I would cut the fins
off the motor flywheel on the exercise machine just to see how much more
power you can get into the battery.
____________
Andre' B.
At 10:33 AM 4/21/2005, you wrote:
http://airlabcorp.com/media/Fun/
The old friction resistance exercise machine has been
sitting for a long time since we bought a new one with
magnetic resistance. Since I use it almost everyday,
I figure I should just recharge the batteries instead
of burning it as heat. These motors happen to use the
same type of belt. So, the conversion was relatively
easy. I think this type of machine is much better
than an exercise bike. Using a chair at the back of
it allows you to paddle like a bike. Standing in
front of it allows you to exercise your arm and abs.
Excuse me for the mess in the room. I am in the
middle of rearranging stuff. You can see my server
room (actually a laptop with some external hard
drives) at the back. The room is powered entirely
from 160W of solar panels. The batteries are old
batteries from my EV's. But, in winter, it needs some
supplement from a charger which turns on only when
battery voltage gets too low.
It might surprise some of you that a typical healthy
male could only sustain an output of about 100W-200W
for an hour or so.
The wind turbine is still in the "proof of concept"
stage. I could only get 11V max last evening, but it
was a relatively windless evening. My goal is to get
20V @ 5A or 100W. I will have mount it higher to
clear the neighbor's trees and I will have to switch
to some better blades.
Ed Ang
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds pretty much like a PFC-50 (or -30 if you cut the current down a bit).
At 09:00 AM 4/21/2005, you wrote:
Does anyone know new or used sources for a charger with the following
specs?
- 250 volt DC output
- 40 amps
- 12 hour manual charge timer
- 240 single phase source
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In French
Bravo !
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
> On 4/21/05, Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Philippe Borges"
> > > I advise you to download free Designflex 2K to make all your
calculation.
> >
> > http://www.gates.com/europe/index.cfm?location_id=3433
> >
>
> That's a link to a mention of the CD.
> This is a link to the actual download:
> http://www.gates.com/designflex/
> But you have to register and give your email address before it lets
> you get the file.
>
> --
>
> EVan
> http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
no i was speaking about GT2 powergrip which is not the same than
GT2....polychain.
Polychain is not useful and too expensive for automotive use so they prefer
using cheaper Powergrip GT2 belts.
you can download all documentation about this belts on Gates
webpages.(though registration is required)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hurley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: New pictures of the Ghiamonster
> At 12:24 PM +0200 on 4/21/05, Philippe Borges wrote:
> >common automotive belt is Gates powergrip with HTD profil, a LOT less
torque
> >capabilities (though compatible) than special polychain GT2 profil.
> >seems Designflex is not available for download anymore, you have to ask a
> >CD...
>
> I have a Copy of the Gates PowerGrip GT2 Drive Design Manual. It's a
> 179 page PDF. Is this the design book you mean? It's about 5 megs,
> but I can email it to those who might want it. Someday, I've got to
> actually read te bloody thing. Heh.
> --
>
>
> Auf wiedersehen!
> ______________________________________________________
> "..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
>
> "Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
> sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
> naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
> at you?"
>
> "..No."
>
> "Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
> - Real Genius
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, you could, but you will have a more complex
system sitting on top of the pole and you will have
more loss and more maintenance. You don't want to
have to keep taking the turbine down for maintenance.
With some good blades like these
(http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bladekits.html) and
higher wind speed, I am pretty sure 36V is very easy
achievable. Alternatively, you could use DC-DC
converters.
One of the most important things about wind turbine is
mounting location. The higher you go, the higher the
wind speed. But, you will have to build a tower for
it since the whole thing has to survive any storms
that might come.
Anyhow, this is getting way OT for this list.
Ed Ang
--- James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Could you not connect the turbine to a larger
> sprocket and then to the
> motor with a smaller sprocket to "spin up" the motor
> to higher
> voltages. Yes, you would need larger/lighter
> blades, but that should
> work.
>
> I REALLY like this idea and if I could built them
> cheaply I'd love to
> build 10-12 36v wind turbines.
>
> James
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not sure if this is relevant, but my neighbor has a full-size pickup
(heavy). He tried the "ceramic" pads and said they were "too soft," and
went back to the semi-metallic kind.
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Mike Golub wrote:
Is there such a thing as a brake pad that doesn't make dust?
How about the so called "ceramic" brake pads? Vs's standard "organic"
or "semi metallic".
This page states:
"There is no such thing as a NO DUST pad. The very nature of how a
brake works requires that some dust be generated to avoid rotor
vibration (shimmying)."
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/Automotive.html
They offer "low dust" pads (ceramic).
You should be able to get ceramic pads at your local parts store.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yea the PFC50 will do this.
I can modify the timer for 12 hours of timer.
240 Vac , comes with a 14-50 plug, ready to run.
Give me the exact voltage setting you need and I will set it and test it as
you wish.
We have a couple ways to start the timer.
We need to talk over just how you need the charger to work. I have never
actually charged a NiFe.
I have a Xrev unit available... or a Stocker on the shelf in about a week.
I can ship the Xrev fast, but I rather keep it for the monster charger....
50s seem to be leaving here Fast this week.....
And that's OK with me!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:00 AM
Subject: Need to find - 250volt / 40amp / 12hr timed charger ? Sources ?
> Does anyone know new or used sources for a charger with the following
> specs?
>
> - 250 volt DC output
> - 40 amps
> - 12 hour manual charge timer
> - 240 single phase source
>
> I have a 1993 Dodge TeVan with Eagle Picher Nife (nickel-iron)
> batteries. I haven't been able to get the stock on-board charge to work
> since I purchased the vehicle a year ago, and no one knows how to repair
> it.
>
> As far as I can tell I am the only remaining Nife TeVan trying to
> operate.
>
> I need to find a stand alone charger replacement asap.
>
> Suggestions appreciated, thx,
>
> Steve
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charles and anybody else
If in some way I have offended you by expressing my opinion, then I apologize,
but not for my opinion, which I still hold, despite your lengthy post. I
apologize for offending you. I don't in any way want to start a flame war. My
objective is to communicate facts and communicate them with honesty and
integrity.
Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: about PHEV
> Hi Rush,
>
> There is only one thing I would concur with your post in which you make this
> personal attack on Marc Kohler's ethics, and that is that you are confused.
> You are missing some very simple and obvious things. First, let me repeat
> what Marc said -- the part that you are so critical of -- and add my own
> emphasis, for effect:
>
> "... unlike ALMOST EVERY OTHER BATTERY ON THE MARKET today, I've heard that
> you actually get out the AH rating (or more) on the Valence units."
>
> Look at what I have capitalized, which is the operative phrase: "almost
> every other battery on the market". Yes, of course Marc works for Valence,
> has personally tested Valence batteries, knows their specs inside out, and
> thus he can obviously speak first hand, in the first person about THEM (i.e.
> Valence batts), without having to say "I've heard ...". But Marc does not
> work for Thunder-Sky, Kokam, Saft, or Electrovaya, and he has not PERSONALLY
> tested any of the lithium-ion batteries from those companies. BUT ... I
> believe that some of his customers HAVE done so, i.e. they have tested both
> Valence li-ions and li-ions from other manufacturers, AND they have REPORTED
> back to Marc that they have gotten the full Ah rating out of Valence's
> li-ions but have not gotten the full Ah rating out of some of those other
> manufacturers' li-ions. Therefore, strictly speaking, Marc is being
> semantically correct and accurate by saying that "unlike almost every other
> battery on the market", he has "HEARD that you actually get out the Ah
> rating (or more) the Valence units."
>
> The second point I would like to make about your "confusion" (your own
> self-characterization, not my characterization of you) is that it is no
> secret to most people on this list that Marc Kohler works for Valence. I
> don't know how long you've been on this list. I myself am a relative
> newcomer here, having only been on the list for about 9 months or so. But
> many people who have been here for a while know that Marc works for Valence.
> I think you're missing something about the nature of this list and who is on
> it. There are many suppliers to the EV business that are on this list, or
> to be more accurate, I should say that some of the employees of these
> suppliers are on this list. But they are here not as spokespersons speaking
> officially and authoritatively for their companies. Quite the opposite
> actually, they are here as individuals, and they often qualify their remarks
> by making the point that they are expressing their own individual opinions
> which do not necessary (and often actually DON'T) reflect their company's
> opinion or official policy. And to be extra careful to make that
> distinction and Chinese Wall of separation between an individual's opinions
> and those of his employer, some listers go to the extent that Marc does of
> not posting from his work email address but rather using his home email
> address. That is just a smart thing to do career-wise, if one wants to keep
> one's job, because that way no one can misconstrue anything Marc writes as
> being his employer's opinion and potentially get Marc into trouble at work
> or with the company's shareholders if someone sees something posted on a
> forum somewhere. Now if you're the president or CEO of your company, that's
> one thing, and at that level you ARE the one who makes company policy and
> can speak authoritatively for your company, because YOUR opinion pretty much
> IS the company's opinion. But Marc is not the president or CEO of Valence
> and neither is his immediate boss. So Marc has to be careful in that
> regard, which indeed he is. But all of what I have just described is
> actually what makes this list so valuable -- because all of these highly
> knowledgeable experts and industry insiders are here on this list to share
> their knowledge and opinions with us, AND, more importantly, they can do so
> freely as individuals without the usual corporate constraints. So they can
> speak much more freely and openly than their companies ever would or do.
> Now, does that mean that these people are somehow able to completely detach
> themselves from their paychecks and be completely unbiased here on this
> list? Of course not. This is a pretty sophisticated and intelligent bunch
> of people on this list. I don't think there's anyone here who would be so
> naive to think something like that. So yes, of course Marc has a vested
> interest, and most people here already know that, and so we all take that
> into consideration when reading his posts, just like we do with people like
> Rich and Ot about the merits of DC systems and their superior power, and
> Victor on the merits of AC systems and their excellent energy efficiency and
> a whole range of things like that. Many of these people here have something
> to sell. We all know that. But what distinguishes all these people I have
> mentioned (and many others on this list) is that despite their obvious
> vested interests, they all make a big effort and go a long way towards being
> *relatively* balanced in their views and are very helpful and generous with
> their time and advice to others. So I really don't think it's fair to
> impugn Marc Kohler's ethics here.
>
> Finally the last thing I would like to say is that I gather from your recent
> posts that you must have contacted Marc Kohler and asked for price quotes on
> Valence's li-ions, which he obviously gave you, because I see that you then
> turned around and posted his price quote virtually verbatim on this list.
> I'm not criticizing that. Actually I think it's great that you did so,
> because all of us are curious and want to know these things and keep up with
> price changes, etc. So I was glad that you did that. But if you then turn
> around and criticize this same person who just gave you a price quote and
> impugn his ethics in public on the entire list for all to see, well, I don't
> what EV project you're working on, but that's certainly not a very good way
> to try to start off a good professional working relationship with one of
> your key suppliers (probably your most important supplier, actually). If
> you are going to do an EV project using an advanced battery chemistry, you
> will have to work very closely with your battery supplier for many months,
> and it would certainly be in your best interests not to insult him in front
> of the whole community here like that.
>
> Well, good luck with your project.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles Whalen
>
> Note: I do not work for Valence, am not selling their batteries, and do not
> own any stock or options in the company or otherwise have any financial
> interests in Valence.
>
>
>
> On Thursday, April 21, 2005 1:23 AM, Rush wrote:
>
>>
>> Marc,
>>
>> I'm confused, didn't we just have an email correspondence? Didn't you sign
>> it
>>
>> Marc Kohler
>> Business Development Manager
>> Vehicular Systems
>> Valence Technology, Inc.
>> Office (512) 527-2933
>> Fax (512) 527-2910
>> Cell (512) 560-0753
>> www.valence.com
>>
>> If so, then why are you saying, "I've heard that you actually get out the
>> AH rating (or more) on the Valence units". You are an employee of Valence,
>> correct? Don't you think you should identify yourself as an employee
>> instead of saying "I've heard... " and promote your company. Or as
>> Business Development Manager do you only 'hear' things and are not privy
>> to actual specs of your product.
>>
>> In your previous post about the lithium safety thread you certainly do put
>> down the other companies, again without identifying yourself as an
>> employee of Valence. While I admit your product may be safer, I would
>> think that from an ethical point of view you would identify yourself as an
>> employee of one of the companies you are discussing.
>>
>> Rush
>> Tucson AZ
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: about PHEV
>>
>>
>>> Actually, since the nominal voltage is 12.8V, the U1 offers over 512Wh.
>>> And
>>> unlike almost every other battery out on the market today, I've heard
>>> that
>>> you actually get out the AH rating (or more) on the Valence units.
>>>
>>> Marc Kohler
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lord Khaos wrote:
> My main issue with converting a newer vehicle, is mainly I don't
> like them.
That's fine: Rule #1 is that you convert a vehicle that you *like*. EVs
tend to last forever so it will be with you for a long time! How long
would you drive your car if the motor never wore out?
> I have a platform I already know inside and out (5 years and over
> 100K on this van for me) and love.
I think people are just responding to the more usual situation; someone
has a car that they drove for 100,000+miles with as close to zero
maintenance as possible. They are the type of person that never fixes
anything, and one day it runs out of oil and siezes. They think it would
be cheaper to convert it to an EV than to fix the engine.
But the rest of the car is also worn out and shot. First, the EV
conversion will always cost more than another engine. Second, as soon as
they do it they discover that the brakes are also shot, the front end is
loose, the floor is rusted out, and there are a dozen other problems.
So, rule #2 is always start with a car that really *is* in great shape.
> As for extra weight in the van, from the factory, they were rated
> to carry 2100 pounds.
I agree; these old vans and pickups really were trucks that can carry a
lot of weight -- not the modern vehicles that look like trucks but
behave like cars.
> My side business is dealing in parts specifically classic mopars,
> and most parts for them are still readily available on the off
> chance its something I don't already have kicking around here.
More reasons to use it as a conversion candidate!
Look at it this way. We're not trying to talk you out of it; we're
trying to make sure you have thought it through and are aware of the
pitfalls (because many of us have made them ourselves :-) If you decide
to go ahead anyway, it will be with your eyes open for potential
problems, and you'll have a plan to deal with them.
There will always be unpleasant little surprises in an EV conversion. We
just want to be sure there are no nasty big surprises!
> I am still concerned that I am not going to be able to get the
> range I need in the area I live without alot more expense than
> I was originally planning for this project.
Range is pretty easy to calculate. Get a high enough percentage battery
weight, and you can do it. While the A-100 is heavy, it is also able to
carry the weight, especially if you are willing to upgrade brakes,
suspension, and tires.
David (B.B.) Hawkins wrote:
>> I don't think a van would be very good for floodies, unless he's
>> going to cut holes in the floor to access them.
Not necessarily. You can put them inside on the floor in a big flat
battery box, with a cover and vented outside. As he says, the top could
be made up as a bed, or just a flat platform for carrying 'stuff'.
Or, you could have a pair of battery boxes that double as seat bases. 24
golf cart batteries only take 12 square feet; that's two 18"x48" boxes.
Mount your seats on top and they look like they're supposed to be there.
Dropping them into recesses in the floor or mounting them underneath is
a *lot* more work, and as you say, access becomes very difficult. Save
that for a future project.
On performance being sluggish with floodeds. The trick is *not* to use a
small pack of floodeds. As long as you use enough of them so you are
discharging them at the 1-hour rate or more, you won't need excessive
current per battery for good accelleration. It won't be a sports car,
but will certainly be adequte.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=98061&item=4543594255&rd=1
Professional engineering? maybe the frame, but I
wouldn't call tie wraps and a piece of plywood a very
good heatsink. It is a nice concept however.
Electric-Powered, Half-Scale Stock Car
Overview: We are offering for sale what we believe to
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cornerstone of an urban motorsports program, which was
conceived to bring the entertainment power of NASCAR�
racing to the urban markets by racing electric-powered
stock cars indoors. Over $16,000 was invested in
engineering, chassis fabrication, and contract
assembly (excluding our time).
Recognition: The engineering of this unique racing
vehicle was selected for a professional presentation
at the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) 2002
Global Motorsports Engineering Conference in
Indianapolis, Indiana.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Ferro wrote:
> I posted a couple weeks ago about the rear drum brakes on my Renault
> LeCar, and while they're fixed, I have found the front disc brakes are
> now giving me trouble. I put the car on jack stands and found that the
> front wheels required substantial force to turn. After closer inspection
> the disc brake pads appear to be dragging. Does anybody have any idea
> how to adjust the front disc brakes on the LeCar? Do I need to replace
> them, or is there a simple fix?
Yes, I have continual problems with my LeCar front brakes, too. The
calipers rust so they won't slide freely on their pins, and the pistons
stick in the cylinders so they don't retract very well. Lots of work
with vice grips and WD40. It's a cheap design, not meant to have low
drag. Next time I'm in there again I want to see if there is any way to
add a true retractor spring.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Would make a great moped with a string of 7 to 10 ah batteries. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
Better yet, for $9.99
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005040623580603&item=10-2167
I bought 5 of these and they arrived last week. One
has been turned into a human powered generator to
supplement my micro solar battery back-up system.
Another had just been turned into a wind turbine
today. Another 2 would probably be used to get weak
regen for my Sparrow. Humm... May be I should get a
few more.
Ed Ang
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just listed this and thought it may usefull for
accessory power on an EV
Item # 7509991461
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7509991461
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So when are these batteries(or any Li.*) going to be cost competitive
to lead acid? Will we ever be able to pull AGM type current draws
from them?
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--- Begin Message ---
All,
Comments below:
>From: "Lord Khaos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:48:07 -0700
>
>and simply
>have hinged compartments for the battery.
This will work fine, just wanted you to know that you need to access the
terminals (caps on floodies) of ALL the batteries.
>then
>a cage where the gas tank is currently, and 2 running the sides of the frame
>rails in between the body and the frame
Yes, the battery boxes should hang off the frame, which is how my truck is
configured.
>should allow for approx 20-24
>batteries (using the yellow top in my truck as a measuring guide).
Are you planning on YT's? You would need a lot of these for the range you
mentioned. I'm running 24 T-145 (72 pound 6 volt Golf Cart model), and my
range is 70 miles in the summer when new. As the batteries age, your range
drops, so you need to plan for that.
>As for extra weight in the van, from the factory, they were rated to carry
>2100 pounds.
Awesome!
>Don't like the looks, think they are over complicated, and fragile. Not to
>mention, when I already have 8 cars, buying another one for a project
>doesn't seem to make any sense, when I have a platform I already know inside
>and out. (5 years and over 100K on this van for me) and love.
I agree about the newer vehicles, and you do want to convert something you
love. After spending $8500 and 150 + hours of labor, I wish I had used a
better donor. BTW this cost was for all new parts, except a used off-board
FrankenLester, and with flooded batteries. Speaking of $ for a conversion,
I got around $1000 from the Feds two years ago, and a $6500 credit towards
our state income taxes, which carries forward for five years, so each year
we have gotten all our state taxes back, or around $1000/year. We should
get at least $6000 back from the initial $8500 spent.
>I don't mean to appear argumentative, as I know most everyone here has a lot
>more experience with EV's and conversions than I do, but I felt a need to
>answer many of the questions/comments that had been put out there.
Discussion like this is great before starting in the garage. I only wish
more people could get beyond the design stage and work towards the EV grin!
Speaking of the garage, I should be out pulling the motor/tranny out of the
RX-7. My daughter just got her license, and she is ready to take over the
"fun" EV, which my son drove to high school in!
>I am still concerned that I am not going to be able to get the range I need
>in the area I live without alot more expense than I was originally planning
>for this project. especially if I have a need to outaccelerate your average
>NW slug at stoplights.
I would recommend floodies for your van conversion. Later you can build a
tire smoking toy with sealed batteries, like the Cuda, as I firmly believe
in having more than one EV, just like you have different gassers for
different uses. You shouldn't commute to the office in a one-half (or one)
ton dually tank, just to have the ability to haul something or pull a
trailer one percent of the time!
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 1:31 PM
>Subject: Re: Build an EV from the ground up
>
>
>> Otmar,
>> I've been wanting to comment on the van thread, because I don't think a
>van
>> would be very good for floodies, unless he's going to cut holes in the
>> floor to access them. Even with sealed batteries, you still need to check
>> interconnects on a low voltage (144V), high current EV. Think pickup
>truck,
>> which is designed to carry extra weight, with a tilt bed to access the
>> batteries, which are hung down low...
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
>> I published a very simple circuit on
>> the EV list in July 2004 to do this.
Rush wrote:
> I got to the archives at crest.org and they only have prior to
> 2003, could you repost the circuit or if it is at another site,
> post the link?
I have a copy, and I'll send it straight to you as it's rather long.
> What I really want is some sort of BMS. My other option is your
> Balancer that is posted at >
> http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/index.htm
> Are there any updates on the circuits? Do you or anybody have any
> plans to build one and order boards?
The design has continued to evolve a bit. Once I "cast it in stone" via
the PC board layout, I haven't changed the circuit much, but have
fiddled with parts values and how it is hooked up. And of course the
software is a never-ending project.
I keep thinking I'll run another batch of boards for the Balancer,
if/when I get enough interest. I've gone as far as changing the relay
board layout to add blocking diodes and "on" indicator LEDs, and fixed a
few issues on the Control board.
But while people have frequently expressed interest, it tends to be
passive interest. "I'd buy one (maybe) if you do all the work and take
all the risk and buy the boards and parts for me." Since personally I
already have my Balancer and haven't needed another one, there isn't
much incentive to make more. Life takes precedence over free work.
I suppose I should ask again; if there *are* people who want one of my
Balancers, email me directly. If you are serious enough to actually
place an order, I will build them if I have orders for at least 10.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
Is there such a thing as a brake pad that doesn't make dust?
Yes. It is spelled REGEN.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Andrea Bachus Kohler wrote:
Actually, since the nominal voltage is 12.8V, the U1 offers over 512Wh.
But the battery will not stay at nominal voltage under meaningful load.
Kokam rates theirs at 3.4VPC whic is average.
And unlike almost every other battery out on the market today,...
Here we go again?
... I've heard that you actually get out the AH rating (or more) on the Valence
units.
So do SAFT's and Kokam's - ask Cliff.
Marc Kohler
Mark, what is average voltage over the course of discharge of U1 for,
say, 50A draw until dead?
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark,
I value your technical background and you are experienced engineer.
What you wrote about Valence product is true.
But you would not write your post the same way if you would not
be a Valencee employee. You defend your company and cannot be
totally unbiased. With that in mind I insert my comments:
Andrea Bachus Kohler wrote:
I personally talked to their CEO during out meeting in LA. He said
with straight face to me Our battery is safe, safest you can find.
I told him: well might be, but others claim the same thing. He
replied "I don't care about others, I know my battery is safe".
Is this the same CEO that just joined the company 6 weeks ago without
any prior battery experience?
No, that was founder of Kokam whom I met in 2004.
I talked to him at EVS21 too. Very
likable and open individual.
Sorry, I have no idea whom are you talking about.
And while promoting own product is good, promoting it by trashing
competitor's product or using scare tactics is not.
I think any company that promotes safety will have to at one time or
another have to point out the deficiencies of their competition.
"Now you said it so mildly :-) How about "You hear about oter
manufacturer's batteries catching fire all the time, therefore
LiIon technology got reputation of unsafe and dangerous one.
Valence changed all that, if you want to sleep well trow away
the product you have and buy ours!.."
I know, you're not the one in PR who came up with nice pacifying
background music in that movie clip with burning battery during
safety testing. Why slap in the viewers face these question
"is your [non-Valence] battery SAFE?
This directly implies that it is not or at least questionable and
"ours is". Typical scare tactic.
TO be fair, every company does similar PR stunts, but that doesn't
mean it's OK, it is at least distasteful. We're discussing Valence
presentation now, not others.
Since the general public is not fully aware of the many different
flavors that li-ion technology comes in, it would be a shame for an
"event" to occur from a generic Li-ion battery problem, spread all
over the news, would hurt all li-ion manufacturers by giving the term
"li-ion" a bad name. In fact that's what happened early on when a
Apple Laptop had a li-ion battery fire in '90(?). Li-ion was branded
in the public's eye at that time as being dangerous. And it was.
But now there are options.
It would be. However, when you buy a computer, you rarely ask who is the
manufacturer of the cells burried in its pack and what kind of
destructive testing was perform and show everyone that movie.
If I buy a cell phone I want to know how long can I talk and
how large/heavy/expensive battery is. I con't care what happens if
I squeese it in vise or I put a needle through. Other's might.
Of the informed public, most know that generally li-ion has to be
treated gingerly or "something" will happen, not knowing exactly what
or to what extreme. I think Valence just wants people to know there
are differences in li-ion solutions.
And solution is ... of cource Valence and Valence only. No others
have place on the safe market. It's like if someone builds fast(est)
cat he start spreading news right and left how slow ALL the competitor's
cars really are.
The answer is may be, but they want you to believe ONLY their
product is safe. Who else's cells this french man tested? I believe
among handful of manufacturers Valence was the best. But there are
many more out there. When you confront them with this, they'd say
"we don't care", but this proves nothing.
Fortu's cells may well be safer ones, no one just had chance to try
them. How Valence then can claim what they claim?
I think their main claim is " the only safe large format commercially
available lithium-ion rechargeable battery technology" .
Fine! Exactly! Just state that in the movie!
"We *don't really know for sure* if anyone has come up with
LiIon battery with _________(fill the blanks) safety features,
we're not aware of any, but we can offer it".
That would be valid and fair statement.
If Fortu
or Sion or Lithium House or any other battery is safe, but no one can
buy it, then the statement still stands. If a 600 mAh cell (which is
not large format) is safe in a cell phone, then the claim still
stands.
I'm sure you know what I mean. Saying that our cells can withstand
crush test, 150 or whatever degrees or never catch fire is perfectly
OK.
Saying that our cells are the best is not, because other's cells
may withstand the same tests as well. Company may be modest enough
not to brag about it all over internet, and just publish test results.
Of course engineering facts will not impact public as much as emotion
oriented PR pitches. Therefore "revolutionary breakthroughs" come
out every week.
Most of the other large format commercially available Li-ion
batteries (TS, Kokam, etc) may have one line printed somewhere deep
in their literature that they do not catch on fire under a certain
test. This does not show the same confidence as a company who stands
up and shouts it from the rooftops.
Standing up and shout from the rooftops are two very different things.
I personally find shouting distasteful.
If I'm interested, I'kk request information.
If I'm not, screaming at me is a turn off.
A good example is UL1642. This says that a
li-ion cell must not cause flame or fire after raising the
temperature to 150C and hold for 10 minutes. Most cells pass, even
li-cobalt. But what happens if your cell reaches 160C or is held for
longer than 10 minutes? Thermal runaway occurs because the
composition breaks down above 150C releasing oxygen causing even more
heat and so on. The real world is not limited to 150C for 10
minutes.
C'mon Mark. You can always construct such extreme test so the product
fails. Valence cells are OK at 160'C? Cool! LEt see what happens if they
heat to 210'C! Still OK? LEt's do 300'C They explode now? This is
scary! Product is unsafe then! Can happen!
Be reasonable. If you request info what CAN happen if misused,
you can't sell anything - gasoline is first example coming
to my mind.
"Our gasoline does not burst in flames intil heated to 70'C
which is 10'C more than out competitor's gasoline! So our's
is safer!"
Direct shorts can cause high internal temperatures
That's what the fuses are for (unless you mean internal shorts)
, over
charging can cause a break down,
Use appropriate charger
an accident crushing the cells could
cause a short, etc. Ask for tests that are more indicative of the
type of abuse that one may see in an application that it's going
into.
Again, what is good enough? You design your application around
limitation any product has - Valence included.
If Valence cell can withstand crash and not to smoke but
cost 20k a pack but Kokam's cannot withstand cmashing (soft jacket)
but cost $2k, (all else being equal) make a steel box for $200 and
place Kokam's in it.
WHich brings another thought - loose unprotected cells being "beetter"
when abused mean nothing before they are integrated into application.
Most batteries are made up of cells in series and parallel.
Ask for test results from assembled units. If 3 cells are being
charged in series and one shorts, the one that shorts may do nothing,
but now the other two are getting overcharged which may cause an
event.
Let's be fair Mark. You suggest to violate manufacturer's requirement
by not using suitable BMS (which will take care of such situations) and
see what happen?
Those that do test cells know what's real and what is hype.
True, not every li-cobalt cell will fail under an abuse test. But
when one has 7000 cells in a car, you can imagine it only taking one
to cause a cascade of problems.
So then tell Al Coccony that he is a reckless fool with his tZero
design. And, don't forget to add that Valence can fix all that, and
he immediately will become smart engineer as long as uses Valence's cells.
You say that TS cells are benign, yet they have no fundamental reason
to be any safer than li-cobalt or li-nickel based cathode cells.
Well may be. But I use them every day for more than a year now, no
problem with safety. I only have problem with them underdelivering
vs spec, but not safety.
Has anyone asked if the company is aware of any fires that were caused
> by their batteries.
If you're talking about TS cells, I am aware of fires. All these
fires were caused by user error or negligence of ignorance.
Now, all the accidents with cars are user erroes too.But this
doesn't prevent oil companies from selling gasoline.
Next time you fill up your ICE car, ask attendent to show you
results of safety tests of the gasoline you're about to buy.
Let us know what he will say. Will yoy stop buying gas from
Mobil if Chevron will scream from every rooftop "our gasoline is
more expensive but safer in case of accident"?
As you know a fool always will find a way to cause trouble, I'm
sure excellent Valence cells are no exception. Even worse -
Valence cells now may make impression of so safe compare to others
that user may consider ignoring common sense safery precautions
("What can happen now that burning/overchanging/whatever
is no longer unsafe?").
Marc Kohler
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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