EV Digest 4306
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Re EV watercraft, EV jet ski's and EV race cars was: Newbie
introduction
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) A Lug Fabrication Idea
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: ICE for series hybrid
by Matt Holthausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Jones)
6) Re: Newbie introduction
by "SouthwestAuctions" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) A fast Lion car?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) TdS Report #14: Monte Carlo Rally Entrant: Kyoto Camel
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) TdS Report #15: Photos - Monte Carlo Rally entrant: Kyoto Camel
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) RE: A Lug Fabrication Idea
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: A Lug Fabrication Idea
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Brusa NLG412 programming question
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Value of electric 7 EV? Better body needed!!!
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Brusa NLG412 programming question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Brusa NLG412 programming question -- More info
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Mechanical PWM controllers
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Re EV watercraft, EV jet ski's and EV race cars was: Newbie
introduction
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Andrew Goldschmidt wrote:
>> I have always wanted to build an electric jetski, but did not
>> know where to go for info. Any advice on the feasability would
>> be appreciated.
jerry dycus wrote:
> While it will work, it won't for long as any planning watercraft
> needs much more power to go fast for long. Also the small jets
> are very low eff. On the water to go reasonably fast for longer
> distances, us a Cat/tri hulls set up with length/beam ratios of
> between 8 and 10-1.
I've seen some human powered catamarans that zipped right along.
Extremely long skinny twin hulls -- in fact they were round aluminum
pipes that ran 75% submerged. Given the feeble power source, I would
think that they would be a good design basis for an EV.
I've also seen human-powered hydrofoils. The speed they were getting
make me guess they were pretty efficient as well.
Finally, of course there is the air car. Once you've used the power for
lift (which is about the same at any speed), your speed over the water
is basiclly only limited by how smooth the water is. Truly enormous
speeds would be possible, even as an EV.
Maybe a craft that was some combination of these three techniques? :-)
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lugs are made of copper.
Lugs are attached to copper wire by compression.
I used to make soldered loops for use as lugs and they worked just fine.
I was driving today and I thought of this: Why solder? Why not make a lug?
Fabricate a lug mold from a material that is incompatible with molten
copper: Wrap the wire onto the lug mold. Place the cover on and heat the
mold with an Oxy/Acet torch to melt the wire.
A lug is born.
Has this idea been used?
Stu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike,
First of all, thanks for the input! I have a few more questions for you
(and anyone else)
The 10 kw one is a 15 HP baldor with some 3 x 7 x 50
uf running capacitor at 14 $ each on a 100 amp. 3 phase bridge
-Where could I find a 15hp (or so) AC motor for this setup (at
reasonable cost)?
-Would multiple small motors be better than one larger one to take
advantage of the capability of this engine? Are much larger motors
available?
-Is this Baldor a permanent magnet motor, or does it use extra energy
to excite the fields?
-After rectifying the current out of multiple motors, can I connect
them in series/parallel as needed, or do I have to isolate them
somehow?
-The capacitors mentioned are only for smoothing the ripple coming out
of the bridge, right?
-Any good sources for a high-current bridge or the diodes needed to
build one?
(deep breath)
driven by a
Festiva motor at 3300 rpm. Lot of HP spare, could have put another
induction
generator on it.
-I understand that operating an ICE at the peak of the torque curve
provides the most efficiency. Is this accurate?
-Any good ideas on where I can find a dyno chart for this motor?
Sorry about all the questions, I'm kind of new at this.
Thanks for your help!
Matt
On Apr 22, 2005, at 7:06 PM, Mike Chancey wrote:
And here I was just looking for a good Civic to put an '88 1.5
into.....
Actually, it would probably make a very good choice. As I recall they
are supposed to be about 265 pounds wet including the radiator.
Couple that to a large 3 phase AC motor wired as a generator and I
think you could get a very efficient generator setup. Alain St-Yves
did something similar with his S-10. He used a Ford Festiva engine on
a trailer with a 15 HP AC motor conversion. When I asked about it in
Feb 2004 he sent this along.
"This trip was a 1500 km x 2 = 3000 km one. For this trip, I was
equiped with
my 5000 watts Honda plus a 10 000 watts one on a trailer. (Twin
generator
for power and safety). The 10 kw one is a 15 HP baldor with some 3 x 7
x 50
uf running capacitor at 14 $ each on a 100 amp. 3 phase bridge driven
by a
Festiva motor at 3300 rpm. Lot of HP spare, could have put another
induction
generator on it.
On the way back from this trip, I did the 1500 km return trip from the
friday 17 hr to the saturday 23 hr. (within some 30 hours).
There have been a 5 hour of sleep while the pick-up was plug on a 110
volts
circuit = nothing. So this 15 kw twin generator unit was enough to
keep the
car on those road at an average speed between 70 and 90 km/hr. Speed
was
verry low on hill climbing with something close to 6000 pounds
equiped EV.
Did see some 120 to 130 km/hr on down hill. Battery stayed normal
temperature all the time because they were not much sollicitated. The
curtis
has been use at it's maximum, only a good technicien and EV driver
could
have make it without burning it..."
There is a write up on it in French at:
http://www.rocler.qc.ca/levehiculevert/recits.htm
Also a story on him using it to bring home a Cavalier EV conversion at:
http://www.rocler.qc.ca/levehiculevert/cavalier.htm
Someday I am going to get him to submit it to the Album.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
At 04:24 PM 4/22/2005, you wrote:
A quick question for the (illustrious) members of the EV list:
I may have the option to purchase a complete 1989 Honda Civic for
$100. How well would the 1.5l 16 valve 4-cylinder serve as the ICE
side of a generator for my series-hybrid Ranger? It is fuel injected,
but only throttle-body. Is this way too big of an engine, or would it
be ok? How about on the efficiency side of things?
Thanks for your input
-Matt Holthausen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stu and All.
Using tinned, soldered, copper wire, put it
thru a nicropress fitting, loop it around the posts or
a jig then back into the other side of the nicropress
fotting, press it and coat for, with corrosion stuff
or vasoline. Since its all eithe tin or copper should
conduct well and simple, cheap.
Or use copper sheet cut to size with shears
and a hole punched for the bolts. You can coat, paint
or plate them easily for corrosion resistance.
Easy if you don't go too thick on the copper.
--- Stu and Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lugs are made of copper.
>
>
>
> Lugs are attached to copper wire by compression.
>
>
>
> I used to make soldered loops for use as lugs and
> they worked just fine.
>
>
>
> I was driving today and I thought of this: Why
> solder? Why not make a lug?
>
>
>
> Fabricate a lug mold from a material that is
> incompatible with molten
> copper: Wrap the wire onto the lug mold. Place the
> cover on and heat the
> mold with an Oxy/Acet torch to melt the wire.
>
>
>
> A lug is born.
>
>
>
> Has this idea been used?
>
>
>
>
>
> Stu
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve,
My idea was to build a big 2 or 3 seater which will not need to go very
fast, just for someone to put around on their local neigborhood lake. I
would assume you could putt all day on a gallon or so. We also have the
option of repitching the impellers to be able to comensate for torque and
rpm to some degree.
thanks fo rthe reply,
-Andrew G.
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: Newbie introduction
> Hi AndrewG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "SouthwestAuctions"
>
> Allow me to introduce myself.
> . i have always wanted to build an electric jetski, but did not know
where
> to go for info.
>
> This would be a good place , I assume you've used a jetski , can you tell
us
> about how much gas you would need to do what you want , a ruff rule of
thumb
> is 500 lbs( some say more )= 1 gallon of gas , this is ruff as I one time
> drove 90 miles on 1300 lbs , but could also burn it up in 40 miles .
> steve clunn
> www.grassrootsev.com
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:05:29 -0400, "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Fabricate a lug mold from a material that is incompatible with molten
>copper: Wrap the wire onto the lug mold. Place the cover on and heat the
>mold with an Oxy/Acet torch to melt the wire.
You've just essentially described the CadWeld process, thermite made
with copper oxide instead of iron oxide. Major use is to permanently
attach ground wires to structural members such as I-beams. The
process has been around for maybe a century - It's described in my
1940s edition of the Coyne Electrical School Encyclopedia.
There are several problems with this idea, in no particular order.
The abrupt transition from molten to stranded copper would form a
severe stress point.
Copper loses its conductivity rapidly with impurities. Oxygen is a
major problem. Both your idea of oxyacetylene melting and the CadWeld
process load up the copper with oxygen. This isn't a major problem
with ground wires because they don't carry all that much current for
their size plus the copper knot is large compared to the conductor.
Being an excellent heat conductor, the copper conductor would carry
heat back to burn off the insulation for a considerable distance.
Acetylene is so hot that the copper in contact with the flame would
invariably be burnt, introducing even more oxygen into the copper.
This would be very labor-intensive, especially compared to just
crimping on a lug.
Consider a properly done crimp. Most of us don't do it properly
unless we've purchased the very expensive tools but then we're not
pushing our wiring to the limits.
The entrance funnel provides a gradual stress relief to bending and
vibration.
A properly done crimp forms a gas-tight bond between the lug and the
wire. The pressure and contour of the die force both into a plastic
state where they flow together. A dissected properly done crimp will
show the strands actually stuck together and to the shell. This
gas-tight seal excludes oxygen and precludes corrosion inside the
crimp while preserving the flexibility of the wire. Only the center
of the crimp flows. Outward from the center the wire is merely
captured and can move around a little.
The lug is made of electrically pure copper for maximum conductivity.
Quality lugs are tin plated to reduce surface oxidation.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will a ~2500 lb vehicle with either a 9" or 13" NetGain motor and a
Zilla 2k with 348 volts of Kokams be comparable performance wise to
the same vehicle using AGM's?
How many years of service can I expect out of the Kokams?
Can you foresee a price drop with those batteries happening this year?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #14: Monte Carlo Rally Entrant: Kyoto Camel
The Monte Carlo style Rally is new to the Tour de Sol this year. It gives
folks who are enthusiastic about the Tour another way in which to participate.
Now those owning commercial vehicles that make deliberate efforts to be gentler
on the environment have another fun way to demonstrate their commitment to the
Tour's sustainable transportation message.
Jonathan Bartlett entered the tour in 2003 with his "Kyoto Codex", which was a
TDI Diesel sedan. His tee shirt had "TDI F�hrfrumpumpen" printed on the back.
He will be driving in to Saratoga Springs from Massachusetts and sent along
this report.
Private entry affiliated with: TDIClub.com.
Current (this week's) vehicle nickname: Kyoto Camel
Manufacturer, year and model: 1996 Volkswagen Passat TDI wagon
Power plant: standard VW 1.9 liter turbocharged, direct injected diesel
engine
Fuel choice: B-100 biodiesel. Operates on petroleum diesel, biodiesel or any
blend.
Fuel tank capacity: 18.5 gallons
Fuel efficiency: annual average of 49 mpg, lower in city, higher on highway
Emissions compliance: conforms to bi-annual light duty diesel emissions test
in MA
Tires: Michelin 185-65-14. Wheels: stock steel.
Brakes: Vacuum assisted disc front and rear, ventilated in front. No
regenerative braking.
Vehicle weight: curb: 3278 lb., gross: 4012 lb., towing capacity with
brakes: 2000 lb.
Body and frame material: steel
Passenger capacity: 5
Registered as: private passenger vehicle in MA
Owner: Jonathan Bartlett
Team: Jonathan Bartlett and David Glynn
This new-to-me TDI wagon replaces the previous 1996 VW Passat TDI sedan I used
in the 2003 Tour de Sol. This is my third 1996 Passat TDI, but my first wagon.
I had wanted the wagon body style Passat TDI since 1997, but chose to drive
sedans while I searched for the scarce few wagons without a sunroof. I bought
this wagon on-line from New Jersey last May when it had just over 150,000 miles
on it. I expected it to have over 178,000 by the time of the event. The
previous sedan had 250,000+ miles on it during the 2003 tour. I sold it last
June with 300,000 miles.
I have chosen to compete in this year's shorter two day Monte Carlo style Rally
that NESEA is running in conjunction with the full Tour de Sol. The shorter
duration rally fits my work schedule much better than a full four (or more) day
TdS event.
I began using biodiesel shortly after competing in the ``130 mph club'' event
with the previous TDI sedan at the Bonneville Salt Flats in 2001. I was
slightly embarrassed by missing the 130 mark needed for membership, but much
more so by the black petroleum diesel soot trail my tailpipe blasted into the
formerly white salt.
I happened to pick up a copy of the Kansas City paper on my trip back home.
There was an article in it about a guy in western MA making biodiesel. I
called him, made an appointment to meet, and made my first biodiesel purchase
before getting home.
I now have over 175,000 miles of biodiesel use between that sedan and my
present wagon, mostly at 100 percent (B-100). I am resigned to blending in
petroleum diesel during the sub-freezing temperatures of the New England
winters. Even with that wintertime petroleum usage my annualized fuel use is
90% renewable biodiesel and 10% non-renewable petroleum based diesel. If the
temperature is above freezing, I'm running B100.
Oh, and I also run biodiesel in my garden tractor, a 1988 Bolens with a 750 cc
Mitsubishi three cylinder diesel engine.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #15: Photos - Monte Carlo Rally entrant: Kyoto Camel
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005/photos_004.html
Monte Carlo Rally entrant: Kyoto Camel
Sometimes you want <B>exactly</B> what you want.
This in Jonathan Bartlett's third 1996 TDI Volkswagen Passat, but finally he
found the wagon-without-sunroof he wanted.
<P>
Photo provided by Jonathan Bartlett.
``Kyoto Camel'': a stock 1996 VW Passat TDI wagon operated on B-100 biodiesel.
Photo provided by Jonathan Bartlett.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for your input,
I really like this forum because I can post an idea here and learn whether
or not (without BS) the idea has merit, been done before, and I can also
learn the pertinent parameters of the concept.
I will gratefully exchange my erroneously held concepts for more accurate
ideas than to continue believing in them.
The old 'wrap the wire around the screw' idea might be the best, least
problematic solution to making a low resistance copper wire connections.
No heat, no impurities, no oxidation, low cost, no costly crimp tools, no
lugs, just pressure and perhaps a little swaging action? A few test runs
for heating and a few re-tightening sessions may be all that we need to get
the job done, given enough contact area, etc.
Remember the Aluminum wire problem in houses back in the 70's? I was
involved in retrofitting 250 houses that had been equipped with #2 Aluminum
instead of #00 Copper at the service entrance connection for 200 Amp houses.
Aluminum Oxide is an insulator, Copper Oxide a conductor, and Aluminum has a
much higher resistivity than Copper. As a result of using undersized
Aluminum, my neighbor's house went up in flames. I found the problem and our
community forced Pepco to retrofit the houses at their expense. It was a
problem worth solving to be sure.
Stu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 4:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:05:29 -0400, "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Fabricate a lug mold from a material that is incompatible with molten
>copper: Wrap the wire onto the lug mold. Place the cover on and heat the
>mold with an Oxy/Acet torch to melt the wire.
You've just essentially described the CadWeld process, thermite made
with copper oxide instead of iron oxide. Major use is to permanently
attach ground wires to structural members such as I-beams. The
process has been around for maybe a century - It's described in my
1940s edition of the Coyne Electrical School Encyclopedia.
There are several problems with this idea, in no particular order.
The abrupt transition from molten to stranded copper would form a
severe stress point.
Copper loses its conductivity rapidly with impurities. Oxygen is a
major problem. Both your idea of oxyacetylene melting and the CadWeld
process load up the copper with oxygen. This isn't a major problem
with ground wires because they don't carry all that much current for
their size plus the copper knot is large compared to the conductor.
Being an excellent heat conductor, the copper conductor would carry
heat back to burn off the insulation for a considerable distance.
Acetylene is so hot that the copper in contact with the flame would
invariably be burnt, introducing even more oxygen into the copper.
This would be very labor-intensive, especially compared to just
crimping on a lug.
Consider a properly done crimp. Most of us don't do it properly
unless we've purchased the very expensive tools but then we're not
pushing our wiring to the limits.
The entrance funnel provides a gradual stress relief to bending and
vibration.
A properly done crimp forms a gas-tight bond between the lug and the
wire. The pressure and contour of the die force both into a plastic
state where they flow together. A dissected properly done crimp will
show the strands actually stuck together and to the shell. This
gas-tight seal excludes oxygen and precludes corrosion inside the
crimp while preserving the flexibility of the wire. Only the center
of the crimp flows. Outward from the center the wire is merely
captured and can move around a little.
The lug is made of electrically pure copper for maximum conductivity.
Quality lugs are tin plated to reduce surface oxidation.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:49:13 -0400, "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Thanks for your input,
>
>I really like this forum because I can post an idea here and learn whether
>or not (without BS) the idea has merit, been done before, and I can also
>learn the pertinent parameters of the concept.
>
>I will gratefully exchange my erroneously held concepts for more accurate
>ideas than to continue believing in them.
>
>The old 'wrap the wire around the screw' idea might be the best, least
>problematic solution to making a low resistance copper wire connections.
>No heat, no impurities, no oxidation, low cost, no costly crimp tools, no
>lugs, just pressure and perhaps a little swaging action? A few test runs
>for heating and a few re-tightening sessions may be all that we need to get
>the job done, given enough contact area, etc.
That really doesn't work very well for large wire. Accessories such
as stamped brass cups to hold the strands in help but there are better
ways. If you want to avoid crimped connectors, there is always the
clamp-type. You've probably seen these in breaker panels and so on.
I used a couple on my Cordless Battery Charger. You can see some in
the photos here:
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Neon_John_site/Generator/CBC/CBC_home.htm
The 5th photo down shows them best. One has the red alligator clamp
on it.
These are very expensively available at Lowe's, etc. I get mine from
one of the local utilities. they come in some sort of cable
termination kit. The utility uses explosively crimped lugs and so
throw those away. I got 'em to throw them in a bucket. I haul off a
bucket full about twice a year. You might check with your local
utility for a similar source.
John
>
>Remember the Aluminum wire problem in houses back in the 70's? I was
>involved in retrofitting 250 houses that had been equipped with #2 Aluminum
>instead of #00 Copper at the service entrance connection for 200 Amp houses.
>Aluminum Oxide is an insulator, Copper Oxide a conductor, and Aluminum has a
>much higher resistivity than Copper. As a result of using undersized
>Aluminum, my neighbor's house went up in flames. I found the problem and our
>community forced Pepco to retrofit the houses at their expense. It was a
>problem worth solving to be sure.
>
>Stu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Neon John
>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 4:46 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
>
>On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:05:29 -0400, "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Fabricate a lug mold from a material that is incompatible with molten
>>copper: Wrap the wire onto the lug mold. Place the cover on and heat the
>>mold with an Oxy/Acet torch to melt the wire.
>
>You've just essentially described the CadWeld process, thermite made
>with copper oxide instead of iron oxide. Major use is to permanently
>attach ground wires to structural members such as I-beams. The
>process has been around for maybe a century - It's described in my
>1940s edition of the Coyne Electrical School Encyclopedia.
>
>There are several problems with this idea, in no particular order.
>
>The abrupt transition from molten to stranded copper would form a
>severe stress point.
>
>Copper loses its conductivity rapidly with impurities. Oxygen is a
>major problem. Both your idea of oxyacetylene melting and the CadWeld
>process load up the copper with oxygen. This isn't a major problem
>with ground wires because they don't carry all that much current for
>their size plus the copper knot is large compared to the conductor.
>
>Being an excellent heat conductor, the copper conductor would carry
>heat back to burn off the insulation for a considerable distance.
>
>Acetylene is so hot that the copper in contact with the flame would
>invariably be burnt, introducing even more oxygen into the copper.
>
>This would be very labor-intensive, especially compared to just
>crimping on a lug.
>
>Consider a properly done crimp. Most of us don't do it properly
>unless we've purchased the very expensive tools but then we're not
>pushing our wiring to the limits.
>
>The entrance funnel provides a gradual stress relief to bending and
>vibration.
>
>A properly done crimp forms a gas-tight bond between the lug and the
>wire. The pressure and contour of the die force both into a plastic
>state where they flow together. A dissected properly done crimp will
>show the strands actually stuck together and to the shell. This
>gas-tight seal excludes oxygen and precludes corrosion inside the
>crimp while preserving the flexibility of the wire. Only the center
>of the crimp flows. Outward from the center the wire is merely
>captured and can move around a little.
>
>The lug is made of electrically pure copper for maximum conductivity.
>
>Quality lugs are tin plated to reduce surface oxidation.
>
>John
>---
>John De Armond
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks,
I like the rubber hose vibration damper concept.
Stu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Neon John
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 6:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:49:13 -0400, "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Thanks for your input,
>
>I really like this forum because I can post an idea here and learn whether
>or not (without BS) the idea has merit, been done before, and I can also
>learn the pertinent parameters of the concept.
>
>I will gratefully exchange my erroneously held concepts for more accurate
>ideas than to continue believing in them.
>
>The old 'wrap the wire around the screw' idea might be the best, least
>problematic solution to making a low resistance copper wire connections.
>No heat, no impurities, no oxidation, low cost, no costly crimp tools, no
>lugs, just pressure and perhaps a little swaging action? A few test runs
>for heating and a few re-tightening sessions may be all that we need to get
>the job done, given enough contact area, etc.
That really doesn't work very well for large wire. Accessories such
as stamped brass cups to hold the strands in help but there are better
ways. If you want to avoid crimped connectors, there is always the
clamp-type. You've probably seen these in breaker panels and so on.
I used a couple on my Cordless Battery Charger. You can see some in
the photos here:
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Neon_John_site/Generator/CBC/CBC_home.htm
The 5th photo down shows them best. One has the red alligator clamp
on it.
These are very expensively available at Lowe's, etc. I get mine from
one of the local utilities. they come in some sort of cable
termination kit. The utility uses explosively crimped lugs and so
throw those away. I got 'em to throw them in a bucket. I haul off a
bucket full about twice a year. You might check with your local
utility for a similar source.
John
>
>Remember the Aluminum wire problem in houses back in the 70's? I was
>involved in retrofitting 250 houses that had been equipped with #2 Aluminum
>instead of #00 Copper at the service entrance connection for 200 Amp
houses.
>Aluminum Oxide is an insulator, Copper Oxide a conductor, and Aluminum has
a
>much higher resistivity than Copper. As a result of using undersized
>Aluminum, my neighbor's house went up in flames. I found the problem and
our
>community forced Pepco to retrofit the houses at their expense. It was a
>problem worth solving to be sure.
>
>Stu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Neon John
>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 4:46 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
>
>On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:05:29 -0400, "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Fabricate a lug mold from a material that is incompatible with molten
>>copper: Wrap the wire onto the lug mold. Place the cover on and heat the
>>mold with an Oxy/Acet torch to melt the wire.
>
>You've just essentially described the CadWeld process, thermite made
>with copper oxide instead of iron oxide. Major use is to permanently
>attach ground wires to structural members such as I-beams. The
>process has been around for maybe a century - It's described in my
>1940s edition of the Coyne Electrical School Encyclopedia.
>
>There are several problems with this idea, in no particular order.
>
>The abrupt transition from molten to stranded copper would form a
>severe stress point.
>
>Copper loses its conductivity rapidly with impurities. Oxygen is a
>major problem. Both your idea of oxyacetylene melting and the CadWeld
>process load up the copper with oxygen. This isn't a major problem
>with ground wires because they don't carry all that much current for
>their size plus the copper knot is large compared to the conductor.
>
>Being an excellent heat conductor, the copper conductor would carry
>heat back to burn off the insulation for a considerable distance.
>
>Acetylene is so hot that the copper in contact with the flame would
>invariably be burnt, introducing even more oxygen into the copper.
>
>This would be very labor-intensive, especially compared to just
>crimping on a lug.
>
>Consider a properly done crimp. Most of us don't do it properly
>unless we've purchased the very expensive tools but then we're not
>pushing our wiring to the limits.
>
>The entrance funnel provides a gradual stress relief to bending and
>vibration.
>
>A properly done crimp forms a gas-tight bond between the lug and the
>wire. The pressure and contour of the die force both into a plastic
>state where they flow together. A dissected properly done crimp will
>show the strands actually stuck together and to the shell. This
>gas-tight seal excludes oxygen and precludes corrosion inside the
>crimp while preserving the flexibility of the wire. Only the center
>of the crimp flows. Outward from the center the wire is merely
>captured and can move around a little.
>
>The lug is made of electrically pure copper for maximum conductivity.
>
>Quality lugs are tin plated to reduce surface oxidation.
>
>John
>---
>John De Armond
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.johngsbbq.com
>http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
>Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Never a dull moment around here. It turns out that part of my car's
problem with running out of charge a while back was due to the fact that
one of the two halves of my Brusa charger is toast, and while the
microprocessor says it's putting out 10 amps, it's actually only putting
out about 5 amps!
I opened the case and smelled THE SMELL. Something was burned out, and
I soon found a couple of bulging capacitors that had obviously smoked.
So, I have a spare NLG4 I bought from Ralph Merwin, but it's programmed
for 120V and my car needs 156V. No problem, I figured I'd use the NLG
software to reprogram it.
Running the NLG_E program, I thought I'd download the old profile out of
the charger and save it to disk in case I need it in the future. Well,
none of the functions that talk to the charger seem to work (read
profile from charger, save profile to charger, reset NLG values). The
software shows the following for the charger: BVERS, SAFT, NLG -- This
is correct, I think.
Ralph, Victor, or anyone else familiar with the Saft chargers -- Can you
help me get this charger reprogrammed? Looking at the display with the
NLGMON software, it all looks OK -- Voltages and other displayed values
look basically OK, I'm just getting the "over voltage" error indicator,
which you'd expect.
Any help appreciated.
-Tom
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'd go with a Lotus 11 replica instead of a Lotus 7 replica
if I did a Lotus-based kit car(Lotus 11 replicas like the
Westfield, ect.). Coefficient drag is about .40 while having
a frontal area of 11.5 feet square. Overall Cd*A would be
better than that of a Honda Insight! And it would certainly
be more of an attention getter than a run of the mill
Ferrari or GT40 replica, not to mention better overall aero
and far less weight.
A pack of Li Ions or Li Poly and a Siemens 107 horsepower AC
system would give it great performance, considering its
weight would wind up below 1,500 pounds as an EV.
Metricmind.com has the 107 horsepower systems going for
about $7k. My guess for this theoretical car: 0-60 ~ 5
seconds, top speed > 140 with the right gearing and multiple
gears, and > 200 miles highway range with 350 pounds of
lithium, assuming this is enough batteries to make full use
of the Siemen's motor's capabilities. That would be a $30k+
battery pack though!
Or you could spend $40k for an AC Propulsion drive system
and another $50k+ for an AC Propulsion Li Ion pack, and
attempt to best the TZero. With TZero's motor and battery in
a more aero car that weighs 400 pounds less AND uses a
transmission? 0-60 ~ 3 seconds, 1/4 mile in the 11s, > 400
miles 70 MPH range, and top speed > 160, although this is
conjecture relying on many assumptions that if wrong would
be the death of such a prospect! But one can drool at the
thought.
Whatever choice you make, pay close attention to the finish
and trim. If it looks, feels, and acts like a kit car or
home built, it will be a hard sell. Especially if it's
flimsy. A factory finish is easier said than done when you
start with a kit car or home built, but people sometimes
manage, and manage very well. Check out Bill Bishoprick's
Swallow, for example.
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/533.html
You can do stuff like that if you learn to work with
fiberglass, and take your sweet ass time. No kit car even
needed! Imagine building a electric car modelled after the
diesel Opel Eco Speedster, with its .20 coefficient drag,
which manages a 160 MPH top speed and over 110 miles per
gallon highway!
www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/speedster_eco.asp
An EV on a platform like that could achieve 500 miles
highway range on a TZero size lithium pack, and have
phenominal performance with an AC Propulsion drive system,
or could ahieve 150+ miles highway range on about 1,100
pounds of far cheaper lead acid and be light enough to get
by on a Zilla 1k and ADC 9'' for 0-60 in the 5 second
region. How much range you need? How deep are your pockets?
Would a cheaper but not as jaw-dropping solution work?
A custom-built EV with a factory-looking finish and trim,
100 miles range, 0-60 < 6 seconds could probably sell for
$40k or more in the case it's unique, and not a conversion
of another car. Its component cost, if optimized for low
weight thus requiring only a zilla 1k and 9'' motor, could
easily be < $20k including cost of materials to make body
and trim and custom or aftermarket
brake/suspension/transmission components. You do the labor,
and you make that cash as your profit.
The more range and better performance, the higher liklihood
of sale assuming a given quality of finish and a given
price. 150 miles range can be done on lead acid. Look at
"Spyder Juice", a Tour De Sol entry(Look at report #40).
http://www.foveal.com/ATdS_Report_2000.html
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tds00carsbattery-electric.htm#No.
31 Spyder Juice
Thus more aero is better, AND greater % battery weight is
better.
But Spyder Juice looks like crap. No factory finish, no
trim. My kind of car for sure, but not the kind of car your
old fart suffering through midlife crisis would be so
willing to sink a large sum of cash into, not the kind of
car a house wife will let an over-eager husband blow money
on, not the kind of car your average American will think of
as a 'sports car'. These people, crazy as it sounds, view a
'sports car' as a 3,300 pound Ferrari or a 3,000 pound
Corvette loaded with 400-500 pounds of trim and sound
deadener, and with a beatiful jewel-like finish, fully
working doors, actual glass in the windows/windshield,
heating, air conditioning, even if they may not even use
these things!
So, you also have to have creature comforts, AND you have to
make the car LOOK like it has 400-500 pounds of trim and
sound deadener, even if it really doesn't and weight was cut
down drastically. If it looks like a 5-year-old built it, or
looks like some toddler's toy car, it's over from the start.
Kit cars by their own nature have this as their biggest
problem.
A custom car thus opens up a world of design options,
although a kit car perhaps limits them, even though it
promises a lot of money in the event it is sold.
Good luck. Choose your method of construction and your
components wisely.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At worst, it is human readable. Screen shots of each screen would be a
good idea before you lose the charger completely.
I am not sure if the SAFT charger software is more difficult to deal
with than standard, but Solectria tech support might be able to send
you software on a floppy or CD?
Also, if you have a NLG41X charger, dialing the power back at full
power is a good idea, in order to make them last longer. They just get
hot inside in the 4 series and I think many are approaching their
expiration date. That said, I still think the NLG4 series chargers
were one of (if not the) best charger of their day for a flexible one.
Which should make the NLG 5 series really nice. Too bad they don't go
lower in voltage.
Seth
On Apr 23, 2005, at 7:03 PM, Tom Hudson wrote:
Never a dull moment around here. It turns out that part of my car's
problem with running out of charge a while back was due to the fact
that one of the two halves of my Brusa charger is toast, and while the
microprocessor says it's putting out 10 amps, it's actually only
putting out about 5 amps!
I opened the case and smelled THE SMELL. Something was burned out,
and I soon found a couple of bulging capacitors that had obviously
smoked.
So, I have a spare NLG4 I bought from Ralph Merwin, but it's
programmed for 120V and my car needs 156V. No problem, I figured I'd
use the NLG software to reprogram it.
Running the NLG_E program, I thought I'd download the old profile out
of the charger and save it to disk in case I need it in the future.
Well, none of the functions that talk to the charger seem to work
(read profile from charger, save profile to charger, reset NLG
values). The software shows the following for the charger: BVERS,
SAFT, NLG -- This is correct, I think.
Ralph, Victor, or anyone else familiar with the Saft chargers -- Can
you help me get this charger reprogrammed? Looking at the display
with the NLGMON software, it all looks OK -- Voltages and other
displayed values look basically OK, I'm just getting the "over
voltage" error indicator, which you'd expect.
Any help appreciated.
-Tom
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I neglected to mention -- If I try any of the three functions mentioned
in the earlier email, such as downloading the charger's current profile
into the computer, I get an error message:
"Value missing or wrong"
"Transmission abborted"
This is with the charger connected to the battery, not plugged in to
240VAC. I also tried plugging the charger in, I get the same result.
Is this where the "password" stuff Victor mentioned comes in?
-Tom
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Building one, with adjustable current limit. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> >> I have always wanted to build an electric jetski
> I've seen some human powered catamarans that zipped right along.
> [...] hydrofoils [...]
tangential from this, relating more to the EV aircraft thread a few weeks
ago, but:
has anyone done the numbers for an EV prop-pack, as are currently being
used with parasails, now usually powered by a noisy gas engine?... seems
like the energy density on LiP might give it a functional range...
also,
with an electric system, there is the option of using many small
motors/props, providing greater range of power and attitude control than
single prop, which is not weight-practical using full-sized gas-burning
engines...
...might as well shoot for light-weight photo-electric coating for the
sail material (and, potantially, use piezo-electric materials in the sail
material, designed to both provide a (minimal) current while flexing, or -
conversely - can be used to deform sail topology by the addition of
current, etc, too...
--- End Message ---
