EV Digest 4307
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Mechanical PWM Controllers
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: New e meter, Xantrex
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) glider sources
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Registering a pusher? was Re: ICE pusher trailer for sale
by "Grannes, Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Valence, etc.
by Sam Uzi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: New e meter, Xantrex
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) The kit alternative, was Re: glider sources
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Brusa NLG412 programming question
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: New e meter, Xantrex
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Direct Drive Racing Driveline (was: Pics of the Big Guy...)
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: A Lug Fabrication Idea
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) BYU EV1 Races at Rocky Mountan Raceway
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Got my taperlock hub off!
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Best AGMs for VW Beetle Conversion?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Brusa NLG412 programming question
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Deep discharge charging smells on the Electravan.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: New e meter, Xantrex
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Best AGMs for VW Beetle Conversion?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Deep discharge charging smells on the Electravan.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Treadmill motor that could be used for EV accesory power
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Registering a pusher? was Re: ICE pusher trailer for sale
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Got my taperlock hub off!
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Got my taperlock hub off!
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Mechanical PWM Controllers
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Direct Drive Racing Driveline (was: Pics of the Big Guy...)
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
steve said :
"I haven't seen it posted , but I don't think you'll get the current
mulaplcation like the PWM controllers do , you can put in 156v 10
battery amp and get out 15 volts 100 amps ( app)
steve clunn,"
I was wondering why not? All the books I have on transistors used in a
buck converter, start by explaining it is just a switch.
Isn't the inductor the one responsible for integrateing the switched
current? Hince the arced contacts and derateing required on a contactor
for DC use :-)
whats in = whats out ; pun intended.
10% duty cycle at 156V @10 amp in, inductor integrates but only has time
to get to 15Volts, so current = 100amp ?
seems like free energy. what am I missing.?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: New e meter, Xantrex
like the old e meter dose and I can't find any way other than
unplugging it to reset it .
Steve-
Any chance they provide a new function option to address the AH reset
behavior?
I looked through the book and was surprised not to find it , The old e meter
could reset the ah by doing that , or any time you were on the positive side
of the ah would reset when there was a discharge,
I'm curious what you are using as your datalogger?
A laptop ,
I've still got intentions to recompile Peter Ohler's EVdash Palm Pilot
program for newer PalmOS versions---but other things keep getting in my
way...
someday I hope to get the evdash palm pilot program working to ,being able
to see volts amp and ah all at the same time is nice. I'm getting my feet
wet so don't have much experience with setting these thing up ,
steve clunn
-Myles Twete
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
re: (previous discussion regarding where to purchase gliders)
I remember Smart car gliders had been suggested as the donor platform for
small-scale EV conversion business, but did Reva (in india) and/or the
norwegian Th!nk makers get mentioned?
... essentially, some rich person needs to pony up for lot purchases of
gliders and set up the conversion business as a non-profit charity
donation tax write-off... if it happens to take off commercialy, the
business model can be replicated and competition will take over... even
if it loses money, though, the cost would be worth the PR alone, not
counting the tax write-off...
legal question:
...I seem to recall it being mentioned that there was a ca. 300 unit/year
limit for a DOT qualification expemtion, yes? does that per-year total
apply to the vehicle make/model, or to the purchaser? (ie: could many
seperate EV conversion concerns _each_ import the max. number of
exempted units?)... if it's on a per-vehcile type basis, how much change
is required to the vehicle to make it a new type?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike asked:
>I would think that the Dept of Motor Vehicles (DMV) would view it as a
>"motored vehicle".
I was afraid that's what would happen when I brought it to the DMV for
inspection/registration. I didn't particularly want it to be registered
as a motor vehicle, since that would mean lots of additional
regulations, and probably regular smog checks (which really doesn't make
sense for a pusher trailer).
The first inspector to look at it originally was leaning toward the
"motor vehicle" classification, but wasn't sure, so called his
supervisor. The supervisor looked puzzled, too, so I explained to them
both that even though there is a "motor" (ICE) on the pusher, it is more
of a trailer than a vehicle, because (1) it has no seats, (2) the
throttle and other controls are inside the "towing" car, (3) it has no
steering, and so (4) it can not be "driven" in any sense of the word, by
itself, independent of a "towing" vehicle. Both inspectors agreed with
me at this point, and decided it is a trailer that happens to have a
motor on it, and not a motor vehicle.
Of course, if it leaves California, it would probably have to be
inspected in its destination state, and the resulting classification
could be different. At least as far as California is concerned, this
pusher trailer is a trailer.
As an aside, one method I have found to be successful when presenting an
unusual situation to an official (like a DMV inspector) is to keep
trying until you get the result you want. This works very well on the
phone, and sometimes in person as well. For example, if in the case
above, the supervisor's decision was that it is a motor vehicle, I
probably would have thanked them both, explained that I changed my mind
and wouldn't register it at this time, and left. I would come back a
different day or go to a different DMV location to get a different
inspector. If the situation truly is borderline, eventually I would
have found someone who agrees with me. In the case above, I think it
was clear that the pusher is more trailer than vehicle, so it wasn't as
borderline as some other instances I've had. I recall calling the DMV
several times (on a different issue), getting the "wrong" answer each
time, until I finally got the "right" answer, then asking that person's
name and looking for that person when I went into the office to complete
the transaction.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You might also consider tinned buss bars. make them custom lengths. Put in
two holes. No lugs. Done. LR..........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> the same but replacing the agm's 6 times might make some feel that Li are
> better ( those who don't like changing batteries) , there is also the weight
> factor , what would it be worth to have a pack that was 1/2 the weight but 2
> times that ahs .
and the price for Li will drop as production scales up with demand
I haven't worked the numbers, but I'd be willing to guess that if Li batts
were as prevelant as PbAs are now, the cost factor for Li (benefiting from
large-scale production's per-unit cost reduction) would come out at least
as good as PbA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete"
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:37 AM
Subject: RE: New e meter, Xantrex
?
> I'm curious what you are using as your datalogger?
> I've still got intentions to recompile Peter Ohler's EVdash Palm Pilot
> program for newer PalmOS versions---but other things keep getting in my
> way...
>
> -Myles Twete
Myles, I was thinking of getting the Zire 72 running OS 5.2.8. Will that run
the Peter's pgms? What is the link? (it also has Bluetooth and a built in
camera). The connector is a hot sync mini USB cable.
Tks
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> legal question:
>
> ...I seem to recall it being mentioned that there was a ca. 300 unit/year
> limit for a DOT qualification expemtion, yes? does that per-year total
> apply to the vehicle make/model, or to the purchaser? (ie: could many
> seperate EV conversion concerns _each_ import the max. number of
> exempted units?)... if it's on a per-vehcile type basis, how much change
> is required to the vehicle to make it a new type?
There may be no numbers limit if they were set up as kit cars in need of the
minimum of work to complete. What is the most that can be pre-installed before
you no longer have a kit? If all the buyer needs to do is drop in a battery
pack, is it still a kit, and if not, how about just a controller circuit card
that can be dropped in place?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 23 Apr 2005 at 18:03, Tom Hudson wrote:
> Well, none of
> the functions that talk to the charger seem to work (read profile from
> charger, save profile to charger, reset NLG values). The software shows the
> following for the charger: BVERS, SAFT, NLG -- This is correct, I think.
If that's the charger you got from Ralph, I can tell you it's not password
protected in any way (because it's the same as the chargers I have). The
functions you mention read profiles from DISK, not from the charger. There
is regrettably no way to download the original profile.
In fact, the Saft profile is zapped into the charger's EPROM. You can
change the safety factors on the main screen. You can change nominal
voltage. You can't twiddle the finer points of the Saft charge algorithm,
though. However, you can disable the Saft profile entirely and use (most of
the) standard charger functions shown in the five profile steps in nlg_e if
you want.
There's a function in nlg_e called something like "calibrate nominal
voltage." (I don't recall the exact name of the function, sorry.) Use
that. Enter your 156 volts and run this function. The only problem you
might run into is that the original firmware in the charger you got from
Ralph was for the Pivco Citibees, and the nominal voltage couldn't be
changed! I think Ralph reflashed the EPROM in that charger though, so it
should work. If not, either he or I can supply the binary file for you to
use. Contact me offline if you need it. You'll also need a compatible
EPROM programmer. I'm ignorant of such things, but Ralph can help you with
that (you probably know though).
David R.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush asked:
> Myles, I was thinking of getting the Zire 72 running OS
> 5.2.8. Will that run the Peter's pgms? What is the link? (it
> also has Bluetooth and a built in camera). The connector is a
> hot sync mini USB cable.
A long while back ( over a year now...) he indicated to me that EVdash was
compiled for a very early Palm OS--- I think it was v1.0.
Anyway, even my 4year old Palm M105 uses Palm OS v3.5, and while the EVdash
program runs on my Palm, the data it displays from the Emeter is erroneous.
My laptop reads the data fine, so it's clear that the Link10 works.
It may also be (need to verify) that the data format or order could have
changed between early Emeters with RS232 output vs the Link10 meters.
It's all been on the back burner for me---I was trying to recompile the
source code with Palm OS v3.5 using Code Warrior, but kept encountering
problems with old libraries and compiler issues...so it's still on hold for
me.
Here's Peter Ohler's EVdash pages: http://www.ohler.com/palm/EVDash.html
Looks like it's still v1.1 code.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Allen said:
>
> Do you have an estimate of maximum output speed? Or tire size and top
> speed. This is a concern when it comes to driveshaft angle, especially
> for u-joints.
Netgain has tested the motor out to 6000 RPM, but claim that the absolute
maximum should be 5000 without serious modifications (kevlar comm wrap,
ceramic bearings etc), which seems reasonable for a motor of this size. My
choice of rear end and tire diameter will be constrained by this. Perhaps
7000 RPM could be a comfortable planning figure for determining the
physical characteristics of the driveline...(?)
FWIW, I'd like to have a rear end gear setup for racing that allows me to
hit redline at 110-120mph or so, and another for street driving that maxes
out at around 75mph for higher RPMs and better efficiency (with the side
effect of harder launches). I've got the formulas in a spreadsheet, but of
course the ratios I choose will depend on the wheels and tires I end up
with.
>
> Some platings affect the fatigue strength. In general, I wouldn't do a
> plating. There should be grease most any place there will be splines,
> so I don't think there is a reason to plate. And all the other
> drivetrain parts will likely be steel or painted steel, wo why be
> different.
Or aluminum, or carbon fiber. :o) At any rate, it doesn't seem
necessary. One process I might be interested in is cryo-hardening; I
understand it is helpful in increasing abrasion resistance which might be
helpful for the splines, and has some strengthening aspects as well
(though the extent of this is debated). Do you have any information or
experience with this?
--chris
>
> Seth
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 23, 2005, at 2:21 AM, Christopher Robison wrote:
>
>> Seth Allen said:
>>> Ok, before I start, I will make a few assumptions and such:
>>>
>>> 1: You don't want to greatly increase cost, so a material that doesn't
>>> need a rough machining, heat treat and grind to size is desirable
>>
>> I agree with this (I've got plenty of other parts of the truck that are
>> also demanding my money), though I'm not sure even what kind of
>> neighborhood to shoot for. Am I looking at a thousand bucks no matter
>> what
>> I do, or am I just trying to save a hundred or so? I've already spent
>> a
>> few grand; a couple hundred well-placed dollars aren't so much of an
>> issue, but adding half the cost of the motor would be difficult.
>>
>>
>>> 2: You need some plunge on the output
>>
>> I'm not sure what this means. Are you referring to the need for a slip
>> yoke, or sliding element somewhere along the driveline? If so, yes --
>> I am
>> not willing to lock down the rear end (at least not permanently); I
>> need
>> to allow for some suspension travel.
>>
>>> 3: a standard interface is nice
>>
>> I have bought from Inland Empire in the past; they make a wide variety
>> of
>> slip yokes. In general though, yes, standard == good.
>>
>>> 4: you want it sized for fatigue life at peak torque (many dragstrip
>>> runs)
>>
>> Agreed. The motor will be heavy and expensive to ship, making the cost
>> of
>> replacing the shaft pretty high, if I'm to have Netgain doing it.
>> Warfield
>> has a location in Dallas I'm told, but they don't work on the Warps.
>> All
>> in all, I'd like the shaft to last. :o) I'm willing to spend a little
>> more now to help with this.
>>
>>> 5: you will not be getting it plated
>>
>> I can't say without more information. What would be the benefit of
>> plating, and with what material? Is it expensive? Would it be worth
>> it? If
>> you're talking about aesthetics (chrome plating or whatever), then no.
>> I
>> just don't want it rusting. :o)
>>
>>
>>> If all this is right, then a suggestion for a steel might be a
>>> pre-hardened AISI 4140 which is fairly common and fairly easy to
>>> machine. It won't be fully hard, but you won't have to do the heat
>>> treat and grind to size.
>>
>> I will make a note of this -- thank you!
>>
>>
>>> As for an output. I have done standard yokes with slip joint
>>> driveshafts for trucks. Not sexy, but they work. But your torque is
>>> actually quite low if this is direct drive to the rear diff.
>>
>> Compared to the potential if I had a transmission, yes, the torque is
>> pretty low. It seemed high to me, but that was during my search for a
>> suitable manual transmission. On the other hand, the existing
>> driveshaft
>> on my truck probably doesn't even see a third as much torque, flooring
>> it
>> in first gear. The input shaft on my transmission is only rated for 175
>> ft-lbs; I don't have the ratios handy but output torque can't be too
>> spectacular. In fact, in 1st I guess I probably get less peak torque at
>> the *wheels* today than I'll eventually get out of this motor. In that
>> sense, it's not so bad. :o)
>>
>>> A CV joint
>>> can easily handle this torque and requires no alignment of the yokes
>>> or
>>> concern over driveshaft angle. A CV flange on the output of the motor
>>> with whay would normally be an IRS halfshaft could work quite well.
>>
>> I am not quite familiar with the setup you're referring to. Is it
>> possible
>> to get something like this that is long enough, and lightweight? I
>> have
>> been assuming the need for a traditional driveshaft and a slip-yoke on
>> the
>> motor, in part because of the arrangement of the motor and
>> differential.
>> I'm planning on putting the motor under the passenger compartment,
>> between
>> the seats, where the transmission is now. I would put it further back,
>> but
>> I'd like to put battery boxes between the frame rails. I've been
>> planning
>> on using a large diameter aluminum or carbon fiber shaft between the
>> battery boxes to reduce spinning mass. Can I have this same arrangement
>> with CV joints?
>>
>> When you speak of CV joints, I'm imagining the three rollers at the
>> end of
>> a shaft which fits in a cup with three deep corresponding grooves,
>> allowing both the CV torque transfer as well as a small amount of
>> sliding
>> motion. Is this the sort of thing you're referring to?
>>
>>> It
>>> is what I would do, but some people really refer U-joints.
>>
>> At this point, I don't think I have enough knowledge to have a valid
>> preference. I have come to certain conclusions based on what I've
>> learned
>> so far, but of course nothing is really concluded until I start
>> actually
>> acquiring the parts. Until then, the more I can learn, the better. I'm
>> OK
>> with CV joints (actually, I like the idea of the smooth torque
>> transfer,
>> and not having to worry about matching angles and such), I just don't
>> know
>> what else about my driveline plans would have to change.
>>
>>> If that is
>>> the case, then at www.roadranger.com there are loads of U-joint specs
>>> there. ANd they will specify the spline options. Let me know what your
>>> preference is (CV joint or U-joint) and we can wade through the
>>> options
>>> and once a spline is found, see if it will work. Your torque is so low
>>> that with half-hard 4140 and an easily cut involute spline on a ~2"
>>> diameter that I think there will be no problem with fatigue life, even
>>> after effects like corrosion are figured in.
>>
>> What are the corrosion properties of 4140? What kind of degradation
>> can I
>> expect, mechanically and aesthetically, assuming this will be
>> subjected to
>> water and road grime? For the most part though, this sounds like what
>> I'm
>> looking for. Can we say that 1144 is out of the picture? I understand
>> it
>> responds well to heat treating, though I don't know if this will give
>> me
>> what I want.
>>
>> I will see what info I can dig up on CV joints used in this
>> application.
>> Although I'm hesitant about using techniques that aren't popular in
>> racing, I realize the operating parameters here are a bit different and
>> may call for an unusual solution. Mainly, if we can plan a driveline
>> that's lightweight, can span from the cab to the differential, can
>> tolerate the torque and the RPM (I'll be running a 5.0-5.3 or so rear
>> end
>> ratio, not quite sure yet), then I won't have much rational cause to
>> disagree.
>>
>> --chris
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu and Jan wrote:
> Lugs are made of copper. Lugs are attached to copper wire by
> compression... Why solder? Why not make a lug? Fabricate a lug
> mold from a material that is incompatible with molten copper:
> Wrap the wire onto the lug mold. Place the cover on and heat
> the mold with an Oxy/Acet torch to melt the wire. A lug is born.
> Has this idea been used?
In fact it has. There is a company that sells cables with terminals made
by fusing the stranded wires together. But I think they do it by
stamping them at some enormous pressure.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I decided to go to Rocky Mountain Raceway today (near Salt Lake City,
Utah), just as a spectator at the TNT (Test and Tune). What do I see
lined up to race? BYU's EV1 racecar!
I had a nice conversation with Tom Erekson, the head of the electric
car program at BYU. He said the car now had twice the number of
capacitors. It had to be pushed off the starting line twice already
at that point. First gear had broken, so they had to run in 2nd gear,
and the 12 volt battery was giving problems. We also talked a bit
about how the Salt Flats racing rules weren't too good for electrics
(there are only three categories, by weight, so production bodied
cars have to run against the heaviest streamliners, current record
315 mph). On a gasser sidenote, Tom dragged his Harley the week
before, and has entered the 130 mph club with it on the Salt Flats.
The EV1 looks small next to all the American muscle cars lined up. It
also looks reversed with its narrow rear end, and wide tires sticking
out of the wheel wells up front, the opposite of the dragster look.
The EV1 passenger area floor has a big box, I presume that houses the
supercapacitors. The motor compartment is surprisingly sparse, and
there is a chain drive. Blue shirted students were swarming over the
car.
The blue EV1 lined up. I jokingly warned my kids to cover their ears.
It ran alone, and had a neat spaceship whirring sound as it went by.
Final time was 16.56 seconds at 84.68 miles per hour.
The 4th time it lined up something must have broken again, as it had
to be pushed back without running. As they say, if you aren't
breaking stuff you aren't going fast enough!
I'll have to get my conversion done so I can offer some competition!
I'm sure today's run makes BYU's EV1 the fastest electric in the
state of Utah.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I put my taperlock hub on, and it was off about 2 thousandths.
My fault, I should have used the dial indicator as I put it on, not
after I was done tightening. I wanted to take it off and try again to
do better (I'm presuming you can differentially tighten bolts to
adjust the fit a bit on a taperlock).
OK, loosen bolts, strike with hammer, hmmm, still stuck!
Tap with hammer a bunch. Still stuck!
Get a gear puller. It can't get a grip. Still stuck!
Get a slide hammer. Destroy all its interior jaws. Still stuck!
Rebolt gear puller to a different config. Can't tighten as motor
shaft spins. Still stuck!
Padded vice grips on the motor shaft can't grip tight enough to keep
everything from spinning as I tighten the gear puller. Still stuck!
Impact wrench on gear puller (the short impacts are resisted by
inertia, so the motor shaft doesn't spin). Taperlock hub pops off!
Yay!
This gives me confidence my taperlock is going to hold on tight!
I'm going to have the flywheel and pressure plate balanced as a unit,
spin everything up to check for vibration, and use the trick of
adding and moving washers to minimize any residual vibration.
So get the taperlock on straight, make some critical measurements,
make the adapter plates and spacer, make a motor mount, bolt it all
together, and I'm ready to slowly creep about on a 12 volt battery!
That'll be a day to celebrate!
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm planning a 60's/70's VW Beetle Bug conversion and would like to keep it
very light and minimize the number of batts and interconnects. So I'm
considering 8 or 9 12v AGMs to start. What make & model batteries would people
recommend?
Mark Freidberg
EAA and OEVA member in Portland, Oregon
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Worst-case scenario is that I replace the logic board in the charger I
got from Ralph with the one from my charger. I may just be able to swap
the EPROMs.
I'm sure the functions will read the profile from my charger -- I
downloaded the profile some time back so I'd have a copy of it stored on
disk just in case I needed it. And Stephen Taylor used the software to
tweak the overcharge percentage on his charger (I'm waiting for a call
from him now). Maybe those values are the ones you're talking about
being able to change...
And I was looking at the display on NLGMON again -- The temperature
readouts seem different (much higher temperatures than I was seeing with
my charger). I wonder if Ralph's charger was set up to use different
(non-SAFT) temperature probes.
-Tom
David Roden wrote:
If that's the charger you got from Ralph, I can tell you it's not password
protected in any way (because it's the same as the chargers I have). The
functions you mention read profiles from DISK, not from the charger. There
is regrettably no way to download the original profile.
In fact, the Saft profile is zapped into the charger's EPROM. You can
change the safety factors on the main screen. You can change nominal
voltage. You can't twiddle the finer points of the Saft charge algorithm,
though. However, you can disable the Saft profile entirely and use (most of
the) standard charger functions shown in the five profile steps in nlg_e if
you want.
There's a function in nlg_e called something like "calibrate nominal
voltage." (I don't recall the exact name of the function, sorry.) Use
that. Enter your 156 volts and run this function. The only problem you
might run into is that the original firmware in the charger you got from
Ralph was for the Pivco Citibees, and the nominal voltage couldn't be
changed! I think Ralph reflashed the EPROM in that charger though, so it
should work. If not, either he or I can supply the binary file for you to
use. Contact me offline if you need it. You'll also need a compatible
EPROM programmer. I'm ignorant of such things, but Ralph can help you with
that (you probably know though).
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
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--- Begin Message ---
Problem found for the smell. One of the phases is overheating. Both
receptical and plug burned. 125v 20 amp. Can I put in a heavy duty plug(30
amp) or stay with the same? I have a dryer plug somewhere. Any advantage?
Lawrence Rhodes....
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Myles,
I'll try and get with some computer guys I know here and see what they say
about the diff OS's and compiling old to new.
Thanks for the link.
I'll keep you informed.
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete"
Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: RE: New e meter, Xantrex
> Rush asked:
>
>> Myles, I was thinking of getting the Zire 72 running OS
>> 5.2.8. Will that run the Peter's pgms? What is the link? (it
>> also has Bluetooth and a built in camera). The connector is a
>> hot sync mini USB cable.
>
> A long while back ( over a year now...) he indicated to me that EVdash was
> compiled for a very early Palm OS--- I think it was v1.0.
> Anyway, even my 4year old Palm M105 uses Palm OS v3.5, and while the EVdash
> program runs on my Palm, the data it displays from the Emeter is erroneous.
> My laptop reads the data fine, so it's clear that the Link10 works.
> It may also be (need to verify) that the data format or order could have
> changed between early Emeters with RS232 output vs the Link10 meters.
>
> It's all been on the back burner for me---I was trying to recompile the
> source code with Palm OS v3.5 using Code Warrior, but kept encountering
> problems with old libraries and compiler issues...so it's still on hold for
> me.
>
> Here's Peter Ohler's EVdash pages: http://www.ohler.com/palm/EVDash.html
> Looks like it's still v1.1 code.
>
> -Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
>
>
>
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Mark wrote:
> I'm planning a 60's/70's VW Beetle Bug conversion and would like to keep it
> very >light and minimize the number of batts and interconnects. So I'm
> considering 8 or >9 12v AGMs to start. What make & model batteries would
> people recommend?
3 choices as far as I know..
You've probably seen the prices and weights of the Optima yellow and blue tops..
http://www.remybattery.com/350/shopdisplaysubcat.asp?id=171&cat=Optima+Batteries
How about some Exide Orbitals for ~$98?
http://www.remybattery.com/350/shopexd.asp?id=5442&catid=341&cat=Automotive&subcat=470&L2=&L3=
Or some Deka Intimators for ~$89?
http://www.remybattery.com/350/shopexd.asp?id=5448&catid=342&cat=Deka+INTIMIDATOR&subcat=474&L2=&L3=
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Lawrence wrote:
> 125v 20 amp. Can I put in a heavy duty plug(30
> amp) or stay with the same? I have a dryer plug somewhere. Any advantage?
I'd think the 30 amp plug would be more durable. If the 20 amp plug
was running at 20 amps; it had no spare capacity and I'm not surprised
it burnt up.
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> I have an old washing machine motor rigged up with a friction drive to
> the wheel of my exercise bike. I tried it connected to the mains via
> a dial-type electricity meter. It is possible by pedalling to get the
> meter to stop, and then reverse as you pedal harder.
>
> It's pretty difficult to make any significant amount of energy, I
> guess due to the inefficiencies in the friction drive, the old cheap
> motor, etc. By pedalling hard for a few hours you might make back one
> unit of electricity.. The value would of course be far less than the
> cost of the extra food needed to expend that much energy :)
>
> With a more efficient generator, I am sure that you could charge up a
> personal electric vehicle of some sort. Perhaps an electric bicycle.
> At this point, you begin to wonder if it's worth bothering!
>
> Was Soylent Green really 1973? Blimey. Still, oil production is set
> to peak next year, so get ready for it :/
>
Well, when you consider the number of people who pay to go to the gym and
ride a stationary bike and produce nothing but heat and CO2, any energy
you produce can be considered a surplus.
Especially when you consider the number of people in the USA that already
eat too mcuh anyway.
With an efficient enough pedal powered generator, personal EVs have some
advantages. Keeping your workout at a constant level regardless of terain
or traffic for example, or energy banking at stops.
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> Yes, you could, but you will have a more complex
> system sitting on top of the pole and you will have
> more loss and more maintenance. You don't want to
> have to keep taking the turbine down for maintenance.
>
> With some good blades like these
> (http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/bladekits.html) and
> higher wind speed, I am pretty sure 36V is very easy
> achievable. Alternatively, you could use DC-DC
> converters.
Check some of the alternative energy boards, those blades are cheap, but
not neccessarily "good". By all reports they are noisy and require fairly
high winds in order to produce any power.
Couple that with a motor that has to spin fairly fast in order to produce
the voltage you need and you'll have a generator that works great during
storms and pretty much not at all the rest of the time.
Of course a good windy night might charge up a e-bike.
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> Of course, if it leaves California, it would probably have to be
> inspected in its destination state, and the resulting classification
> could be different. At least as far as California is concerned, this
> pusher trailer is a trailer.
I'm not aware of any state that requires inspections (of any kind) with
trailers. I bought a trailer a couple years ago, previous owner had it
registered in California. It was reguistered to the wife, but I bought it
from the husband. He didn't have power of atourney or anything, just the
title. I registered it with no problems, they didn't even want to see it,
or any proof of sale or anything. I had the previous title and the cash,
that's all they cared about.
Now when I sold a car, I had to be physically present at the DMV to
transfer the title.
My point is, that once you have it registered anywhere, I think everywhere
else will just consider it a trailer without bothering to even look at it.
Trailers don't seem to draw a lot of concern at the DMV (or whatever they
call it in your state)
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--- Begin Message ---
At 10:17 PM 23/04/05 -0700, David Dymaxion wrote:
When I put my taperlock hub on, and it was off about 2 thousandths.
<snip> loosen bolts, strike with hammer, <snip> Destroy <snip>Impact
wrench <snip> Taperlock hub pops off!
Yay!
Hmm, the only taperlock method we see here has a set of threads that are in
the "other" half to the way they tighten. Pull out the locking screws,
screw them into the other holes and tighten until they 'break' the locking.
If the center is still stuck on the shaft, a small flat-blade screwdriver
tapped into the split is all that is needed to free it up, unless the key
has jammed in some way (David, was this what your problem was?), or the
assembler used a 'loctite' adhesive or similar.
When buying a taperlock, make certain that it has the "other" half threads
in the assembly to be able to get it apart again!
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
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--- Begin Message ---
Can you add three tapped holes in your hub to make it easy to remove?
Look at my hub and bushing:
http://nick.homelinux.net/phil_echo_b_u/EchoPictures/Echo_adapter_5.jpg
The bushing came with three tapped holes in the flange, but , since, when
assembled, the flange is inaaccesible against the motor, they can't be used.
So, I added three tapped holes in the hub for removal. The six large,
evenly spaced holes in the hub are for the flywheel bolts. At the bottom of
three of those holes ( three evenly spaced ones) I tapped three smaller (
5/16-18) holes. It makes the hub easy to remove. ( You could also continue
the larger tapped flywheel mounting holes - I didn't, because I didn't have
a tap that was long enough)
Just screw in three screws ( after removing the flywheel) and turn each a
little at a time. They push against the flange of the bushing and separate
the hub from the bushing. ( You can see two of the three marks on the
bushing flange where these bolts push)
If your bushing isn't flanged, you might be able to do the same thing,
except have the removal screws push on the body of the bushing.
Phil
From: David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Got my taperlock hub off!
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:17:01 -0700 (PDT)
When I put my taperlock hub on, and it was off about 2 thousandths.
My fault, I should have used the dial indicator as I put it on, not
after I was done tightening. I wanted to take it off and try again to
do better (I'm presuming you can differentially tighten bolts to
adjust the fit a bit on a taperlock).
OK, loosen bolts, strike with hammer, hmmm, still stuck!
Tap with hammer a bunch. Still stuck!
Get a gear puller. It can't get a grip. Still stuck!
Get a slide hammer. Destroy all its interior jaws. Still stuck!
Rebolt gear puller to a different config. Can't tighten as motor
shaft spins. Still stuck!
Padded vice grips on the motor shaft can't grip tight enough to keep
everything from spinning as I tighten the gear puller. Still stuck!
Impact wrench on gear puller (the short impacts are resisted by
inertia, so the motor shaft doesn't spin). Taperlock hub pops off!
Yay!
This gives me confidence my taperlock is going to hold on tight!
I'm going to have the flywheel and pressure plate balanced as a unit,
spin everything up to check for vibration, and use the trick of
adding and moving washers to minimize any residual vibration.
So get the taperlock on straight, make some critical measurements,
make the adapter plates and spacer, make a motor mount, bolt it all
together, and I'm ready to slowly creep about on a 12 volt battery!
That'll be a day to celebrate!
__________________________________________________
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On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to
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--- Begin Message ---
On 4/24/05, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> steve said :
> "I haven't seen it posted , but I don't think you'll get the current
> mulaplcation like the PWM controllers do , you can put in 156v 10
> battery amp and get out 15 volts 100 amps ( app)
> steve clunn,"
>
> I was wondering why not? All the books I have on transistors used in a
> buck converter, start by explaining it is just a switch.
> Isn't the inductor the one responsible for integrateing the switched
> current? Hince the arced contacts and derateing required on a contactor
> for DC use :-)
Yes, but solid-state controllers have a diode to maintain the motor
loop circuit when the switch is open. Without some way of doing that,
Steve is right, you'd get the same current out as you put in. The
power that would normally provide "current multiplication" will in
this case be used to fry your contacts and wipe out radio reception
for a few miles :)
You can use a diode to do this job for your mechanical controller,
but by the same reasoning you'd be able to use a better switch in the
form of a transistor as well!
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The max rotational speed dictates the angle you can run U-joints at,
hence the question.
I guess I was thinking U-joint and CV joints being steel. I forgot you
want a CF or other light material driveshaft.
I haev heard explanations about cryo treatments. Mostly from sales
types. Never used it. If we get to the point where we are worried about
better material properties then we are too close to the edge ofthe
design envelope because at this point we don't have the system defined
well enough to understand all the possible loads. In my opinion, at
least.
Seth
On Apr 23, 2005, at 11:55 PM, Christopher Robison wrote:
Seth Allen said:
Do you have an estimate of maximum output speed? Or tire size and top
speed. This is a concern when it comes to driveshaft angle, especially
for u-joints.
Netgain has tested the motor out to 6000 RPM, but claim that the
absolute
maximum should be 5000 without serious modifications (kevlar comm wrap,
ceramic bearings etc), which seems reasonable for a motor of this
size. My
choice of rear end and tire diameter will be constrained by this.
Perhaps
7000 RPM could be a comfortable planning figure for determining the
physical characteristics of the driveline...(?)
FWIW, I'd like to have a rear end gear setup for racing that allows me
to
hit redline at 110-120mph or so, and another for street driving that
maxes
out at around 75mph for higher RPMs and better efficiency (with the
side
effect of harder launches). I've got the formulas in a spreadsheet,
but of
course the ratios I choose will depend on the wheels and tires I end up
with.
Some platings affect the fatigue strength. In general, I wouldn't do a
plating. There should be grease most any place there will be splines,
so I don't think there is a reason to plate. And all the other
drivetrain parts will likely be steel or painted steel, wo why be
different.
Or aluminum, or carbon fiber. :o) At any rate, it doesn't seem
necessary. One process I might be interested in is cryo-hardening; I
understand it is helpful in increasing abrasion resistance which might
be
helpful for the splines, and has some strengthening aspects as well
(though the extent of this is debated). Do you have any information or
experience with this?
--chris
Seth
On Apr 23, 2005, at 2:21 AM, Christopher Robison wrote:
Seth Allen said:
Ok, before I start, I will make a few assumptions and such:
1: You don't want to greatly increase cost, so a material that
doesn't
need a rough machining, heat treat and grind to size is desirable
I agree with this (I've got plenty of other parts of the truck that
are
also demanding my money), though I'm not sure even what kind of
neighborhood to shoot for. Am I looking at a thousand bucks no matter
what
I do, or am I just trying to save a hundred or so? I've already
spent
a
few grand; a couple hundred well-placed dollars aren't so much of an
issue, but adding half the cost of the motor would be difficult.
2: You need some plunge on the output
I'm not sure what this means. Are you referring to the need for a
slip
yoke, or sliding element somewhere along the driveline? If so, yes --
I am
not willing to lock down the rear end (at least not permanently); I
need
to allow for some suspension travel.
3: a standard interface is nice
I have bought from Inland Empire in the past; they make a wide
variety
of
slip yokes. In general though, yes, standard == good.
4: you want it sized for fatigue life at peak torque (many dragstrip
runs)
Agreed. The motor will be heavy and expensive to ship, making the
cost
of
replacing the shaft pretty high, if I'm to have Netgain doing it.
Warfield
has a location in Dallas I'm told, but they don't work on the Warps.
All
in all, I'd like the shaft to last. :o) I'm willing to spend a
little
more now to help with this.
5: you will not be getting it plated
I can't say without more information. What would be the benefit of
plating, and with what material? Is it expensive? Would it be worth
it? If
you're talking about aesthetics (chrome plating or whatever), then
no.
I
just don't want it rusting. :o)
If all this is right, then a suggestion for a steel might be a
pre-hardened AISI 4140 which is fairly common and fairly easy to
machine. It won't be fully hard, but you won't have to do the heat
treat and grind to size.
I will make a note of this -- thank you!
As for an output. I have done standard yokes with slip joint
driveshafts for trucks. Not sexy, but they work. But your torque is
actually quite low if this is direct drive to the rear diff.
Compared to the potential if I had a transmission, yes, the torque is
pretty low. It seemed high to me, but that was during my search for a
suitable manual transmission. On the other hand, the existing
driveshaft
on my truck probably doesn't even see a third as much torque,
flooring
it
in first gear. The input shaft on my transmission is only rated for
175
ft-lbs; I don't have the ratios handy but output torque can't be too
spectacular. In fact, in 1st I guess I probably get less peak torque
at
the *wheels* today than I'll eventually get out of this motor. In
that
sense, it's not so bad. :o)
A CV joint
can easily handle this torque and requires no alignment of the yokes
or
concern over driveshaft angle. A CV flange on the output of the
motor
with whay would normally be an IRS halfshaft could work quite well.
I am not quite familiar with the setup you're referring to. Is it
possible
to get something like this that is long enough, and lightweight? I
have
been assuming the need for a traditional driveshaft and a slip-yoke
on
the
motor, in part because of the arrangement of the motor and
differential.
I'm planning on putting the motor under the passenger compartment,
between
the seats, where the transmission is now. I would put it further
back,
but
I'd like to put battery boxes between the frame rails. I've been
planning
on using a large diameter aluminum or carbon fiber shaft between the
battery boxes to reduce spinning mass. Can I have this same
arrangement
with CV joints?
When you speak of CV joints, I'm imagining the three rollers at the
end of
a shaft which fits in a cup with three deep corresponding grooves,
allowing both the CV torque transfer as well as a small amount of
sliding
motion. Is this the sort of thing you're referring to?
It
is what I would do, but some people really refer U-joints.
At this point, I don't think I have enough knowledge to have a valid
preference. I have come to certain conclusions based on what I've
learned
so far, but of course nothing is really concluded until I start
actually
acquiring the parts. Until then, the more I can learn, the better.
I'm
OK
with CV joints (actually, I like the idea of the smooth torque
transfer,
and not having to worry about matching angles and such), I just don't
know
what else about my driveline plans would have to change.
If that is
the case, then at www.roadranger.com there are loads of U-joint
specs
there. ANd they will specify the spline options. Let me know what
your
preference is (CV joint or U-joint) and we can wade through the
options
and once a spline is found, see if it will work. Your torque is so
low
that with half-hard 4140 and an easily cut involute spline on a ~2"
diameter that I think there will be no problem with fatigue life,
even
after effects like corrosion are figured in.
What are the corrosion properties of 4140? What kind of degradation
can I
expect, mechanically and aesthetically, assuming this will be
subjected to
water and road grime? For the most part though, this sounds like
what
I'm
looking for. Can we say that 1144 is out of the picture? I
understand
it
responds well to heat treating, though I don't know if this will give
me
what I want.
I will see what info I can dig up on CV joints used in this
application.
Although I'm hesitant about using techniques that aren't popular in
racing, I realize the operating parameters here are a bit different
and
may call for an unusual solution. Mainly, if we can plan a driveline
that's lightweight, can span from the cab to the differential, can
tolerate the torque and the RPM (I'll be running a 5.0-5.3 or so rear
end
ratio, not quite sure yet), then I won't have much rational cause to
disagree.
--chris
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