EV Digest 4368
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Are these TDS Calculations RIGHT ???
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: S-10 reconversion
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) 48VDC Coil 48VDC Contactor for millipak?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) 48VDC Coil 48VDC Contactor for millipak?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) KSI Current
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV Transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Are these TDS Calculations RIGHT ???
by David Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) PFC20 Charging Questions
by "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Rush, Flying car heads up
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Are these TDS Calculations RIGHT ???
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Vicor DC-DC VI-N(B)52-EM (from Halted)
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: PFC20 Charging Questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: DC-DC Converters
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: DC-DC Converters
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC/DCs
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: DC-DC Converters
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: DC/DCs
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV Transmissions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: DC-DC Converters
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) RE: EV Transmissions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: PFC20 Charging Questions
by "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Where are all the electric Pacers?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) RE: DC-DC Converters
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: 48VDC Coil 48VDC Contactor for millipak?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) article: First 150mph Tango electric performance commuter to be delivered
next week
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Where are all the electric Pacers?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: EV Transmissions
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) wanted Converters in OH
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Cable crimping
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Fwd: Re: EV Transmissions
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
They report on the High Milage Rally.. The most interesting entry was
a "Plug-In Hybrid" from EnergyCS LLC ... MY QUESTION IS...their
calculation on 10 kwh of charging power lowering their overall milage
from 102 mpg to an equivelent 67 mpg.... Here is their paragraph below:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"On a 150-mile run, this vehicle achieved
nearly 102 MPG on the gasoline used, but also utilized 10 kilowatt-hours
of electricity required to charge the special lithium-ion batteries.
When computing the total energy used, including the grid power, the net
effective mileage was only 67 MPG, which is still highly commendable.
Although this vehicle would be relatively expensive to buy, if available
today, due to extra battery cost, plug-in hybrids may become a viable
future technology. "
YOU NUMBER CRUNCHERS OUT THERE... ARE THOSE CALCULATIONS CORRECT ?
WOULD 10 KWH BE THE SAME AS X GALONS OF GAS ??? AND LOWER THE MPG FROM
102 TO 67 FOR A 150 MILE TRIP ???
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rush and All,
--- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all
>
> I just got a S-10 that was being reconverted by
> Mason in Phoenix, but he didn't have enough time to
> finish it so he had to let it go.
>
> It is a 96 S-10, that was owned by APS in Phoenix
> and used as a meter reader. It was an Electicar AC
> conversion and never worked well at all. It has
> about 6000 miles only. Mason got it without the AC
> unit in it and started the conversion. It has a 9"
> ADC motor linked to a 5 speed manual installed, a
> Todd PC-40 amp (takes from a 140-180 V bat pack), a
> K&W BC-250 charger (110/220 VAC input, 72-156 DCV
> output), an emeter with a RS232 port, all the
> necessary meters, contactors, etc. The only thing I
> have to supply is the time to finish installing
> everything, a controller, water pump for the
> controller, batteries and cables.
>
> I'm going to get a Zilla 1K controller.
>
> Charger and DC/DC wise I am a little stymied. He was
> planning to put in a 144 V system with T-125's and
> has the battery holders already made up, one up
> front holding 6, one on either side of the drive
> shaft holding 6 each and the third rear of the axle
> holding 6. I was planning to use the T-125 also in
> my Mitsubishi, they have the highest watt density/lb
> of the flooded. But since I want about an 80 mile
> trip, my spreadsheets that I have made up say that I
> should use at least a 180 v pack, which means that I
> will have to upgrade the charger and BC/BC.
>
> Any thoughts?
How about lowering the drag first by much better
aero and lower weight, lowest rolling drag tires
should get you where you want to go.
Replacing the bed with a very lightweight, aero
sheel like we discussed before will do wonders for
your range t much lower costs.
A quick and dirty one could be made with 1/8"
ply to prove it works. And it will weigh less than the
bed it replaces by a fair amount if done right. If it
does it for you, then give it a layer if glass cloth
for weather protection.
Ditch or lighten the bumpers, ect, lower it and
use an air dam front, side will also help and a mono
paint job would make it look really good too while
lowering weight, drag.
So I'd start with the 144-156vdc system as you
can alway increase it later if nessasary.
HTH's
Jerry Dycus
>
> Lee - I also want the battery balancer, what can we
> do? Can one be made up with a charger incorporated
> for 30 T-125's?
>
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
Discover Yahoo!
Use Yahoo! to plan a weekend, have fun online and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looking for suggestions on a contactor for my sevcon millipak from anyone who
has used one. It can either use 48VDC coil or 24VDC coil.
Max amps would be 330 on 48VDC for a very short while
To get to 24vdc it PWM's the contactor control output which is why I'm avoiding
my first choice of a czonka III with the coil economizer.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looking for suggestions on a contactor for my sevcon millipak from anyone who
has used one. It can either use 48VDC coil or 24VDC coil.
Max amps would be 330 on 48VDC for a very short while
To get to 24vdc it PWM's the contactor control output which is why I'm avoiding
my first choice of a czonka III with the coil economizer.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody know about how much current the KSI input on a Curtis 1231C draws?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
jerry dycus wrote:
If you do find a planetary that has 2 speeds,
finding one where the gear
ratio differences is >= 1.5 is also difficult.
It is? Have you ever heard of a powerglide? And the
gearset id about 2.83-1 and direct drive. All one has
to do is build a case, bearings for it.
Also there is the Lenco racing trans though pricy.
In this context, I was referring to use on a M/C. A PG would be way too
big. A single stage Lenco would probably work, though big $$$.
E
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did not read the article, but based on this information and some
assumptions, here are some 'back of the envelop' calculations.
102MPG would mean that 1.47 Gallons of gasoline were used for the trip.
Assuming the car (a prius, I think?) gets an average of 50MPG, the
total distance traveled on gasoline was 73.5.
That leave 76.5 traveled on 10KWh of electricity. This is about
130Wh/mile. Pretty good - that as good as the GM impact so my
calculation are already somewhat suspicious, but forging ahead....
If the overall gas mileage is assumed to be 67MPG, then the trip used
the equivalent of 2.24 gallons of gasoline. Subtracting out the 1.47
gallons of gasoline from the first calculation says that 10KWh is
equivalent to 0.77 Gallons of Gasoline. If gas is $2.50, then that's
$1.92 for 10KWh, or $0.19/KWh.
In California I believe (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), PG&E
is required to provide electricity at off-peak rates for EV's at a rate
of about $0.06/KWh. Working backwards from this value, we have $0.60 of
Electricity which is equivalent to 0.24 Gallons of Gasoline. This give
a total of 1.71 (1.47+0.24) Gallons of Gas equivalent, or 87.72MPG.
David
On May 18, 2005, at 9:11 AM, Steven Lough wrote:
They report on the High Milage Rally.. The most interesting entry
was a "Plug-In Hybrid" from EnergyCS LLC ... MY QUESTION IS...their
calculation on 10 kwh of charging power lowering their overall milage
from 102 mpg to an equivelent 67 mpg.... Here is their paragraph
below:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"On a 150-mile run, this vehicle achieved
nearly 102 MPG on the gasoline used, but also utilized 10
kilowatt-hours of electricity required to charge the special
lithium-ion batteries. When computing the total energy used, including
the grid power, the net effective mileage was only 67 MPG, which is
still highly commendable. Although this vehicle would be relatively
expensive to buy, if available today, due to extra battery cost,
plug-in hybrids may become a viable future technology. "
YOU NUMBER CRUNCHERS OUT THERE... ARE THOSE CALCULATIONS CORRECT ?
WOULD 10 KWH BE THE SAME AS X GALONS OF GAS ??? AND LOWER THE MPG FROM
102 TO 67 FOR A 150 MILE TRIP ???
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've gotten my new batteries installed, and am getting ready to charge them for
the first time. I have a couple of basic questions:
My pack setup is 22 - 6 Volt flooded led acid. (Sam's Stowaway)
1. I'm doing an equalizing charge first, do I just turn the voltage limit up
and monitor the batteries manually until they hit 7.5v per cell? Is this the
norm for doing an equalizing charge with a basic (no batregs, etc) PFC-20
setup? So basically any time I get ready to do an equalizing charge I'm just
going to turn the voltage limit up a bit and monitor the voltage / amps
manually?
2. After reading the instructions many times, I have one questions (I think)
about the way the charger works... It seems it charges until the pack reaches
a specific voltage limit, and then depending on the configuration it kicks off
a shutoff timer. It seems like switching SW3-1 ON would be the most basic
setup. It would charge until the pack reached the voltage limit, then start
the shutoff timer for the specified time. What confuses me is that in the
instructions is states that if no Batregs are connected SW3-1 will have no
effect. Am I missing something, or do I just need to keep all the SW3-x OFF
for basic operation?
Thanks!
Glenn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush and any who were interested, I am not sure if it was the EV version or not
but
was reloading my coffee just now and saw a blurb on the flying car that we were
talking about a while back. TV said it will be on the next Ripley's Believe it
or Not episode airing tomorrow. Might be interesting. David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steven Lough [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> "On a 150-mile run, this vehicle achieved nearly 102 MPG
> on the gasoline used, but also utilized 10 kilowatt-hours
> of electricity required to charge the special lithium-ion
> batteries. When computing the total energy used, including
> the grid power, the net effective mileage was only 67 MPG,
> which is still highly commendable."
>
> YOU NUMBER CRUNCHERS OUT THERE... ARE THOSE CALCULATIONS CORRECT ?
> WOULD 10 KWH BE THE SAME AS X GALONS OF GAS ??? AND LOWER THE
> MPG FROM 102 TO 67 FOR A 150 MILE TRIP ???
>From the EPA website <http://www.epa.gov/orcdizux/rfgecon.htm>
the energy content of a US gallon of gasoline is 113,000-117,000 BTU
during the summer.
According to this handy-dandy energy units convertor:
<http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/ncrick/converters/energy.html>
this equates to 33.117-34.289kWh/gallon.
So, 10kWh of electricity is equivalent to 0.29-0.30 gallons of gasoline.
If the EnergyCS Prius achieved 102mpg on a 150mi run, this suggests it
consumed 1.47 gallons of gasoline. So, including the 0.29-0.30 gallon
gasoline equivalent of the 10kWh of electricity consumed results in 1.77
gallons of gas for 150mi travelled or 84.7mpg.
I would therefore conclude that either the TdS math is incorrect or it
is not considering the gasoline equivalent of the electrical energy
consumed by the vehicle, but rather the gasoline equivalent of the
energy used to produce the electrical energy consumed.
For 67mpg over a 150mi trip, the TdS must figure on the equivalent of
2.239 gallons of gas, which means they are equating the 10kWh of
electricity to about 0.769 gallons of gas: over 2x its actual energy
equivalent. This seems suspiciously like the TdS is figuring on a
generation efficiency in the high 30's of % and
transmission/distribution efficiency in the low 90's of %, for an
overall efficiency of about 39%.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Regarding using Vicor DC/DC DRIVER modules as BOOSTERs, Lee Hart suggested:
> ...load was so great that it went into current limit; then the second one
> began supplying current. To fix this, I cranked one VI-200's trimpot
> wide open, and connected GateOut of the "driver" to GateIn of the
> "booster". This caused them to share the load approximately equally
> (their output currents matched within about 10%). I did not notice any
> acoustic noise when they were operating this way.
I tried this today----reconfigured one of my semi-hacked-up Vicor Modupac
Driver modules back to its Driver configuration, minus the GateIN filter cap
(so it'd respond as a booster), hooked it up in parallel with a driver
module, and "dzzzzzzt"...same electric frequency-variable banshee sound as
the "booster" module kicks in....
Then, I adjusted the trimpot to the high end of its range and tried it
again.
This time, no "dzzzzzzzt".
Rather, a continuous, soundless transition from 0-9amps (current limit for
one 24v/8a module), then 9-18+amps and finally current limit.
So, now that I know this works with the 24v modules, I need to hack the
24vDC modules out and insert 48v, 150w modules into these Modupacs and
VOILA-----0-3.6kw with 3 PFC Megapacs stuffed with 8 48v modules each. Or
so the theory goes...later I'll add a 3-stage charger control (wish I had
Vicor BatMods...oh well).
Thanks for the help Lee...I was reluctant to simply keep the Driver modupac
module unmodified except for the GateIN filter cap since I expected the
drivers would fight each other. But the Gate modulation prevents that as
long as the "boosters" are trying to put out at least as much voltage as the
driver or booster upstream---at least that's today's theory...
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:08 AM
Subject: PFC20 Charging Questions
I've gotten my new batteries installed, and am getting ready to charge them
for the first time. I have a couple of basic questions:
My pack setup is 22 - 6 Volt flooded led acid. (Sam's Stowaway)
1. I'm doing an equalizing charge first, do I just turn the voltage limit
up and monitor the batteries manually until they hit 7.5v per cell? Is this
the norm for doing an equalizing charge with a basic (no batregs, etc)
PFC-20 setup? So basically any time I get ready to do an equalizing charge
I'm just going to turn the voltage limit up a bit and monitor the voltage /
amps manually?
Correct.
2. After reading the instructions many times, I have one questions (I
think) about the way the charger works... It seems it charges until the
pack reaches a specific voltage limit, and then depending on the
configuration it kicks off a shutoff timer. It seems like switching SW3-1
ON would be the most basic setup. It would charge until the pack reached
the voltage limit, then start the shutoff timer for the specified time.
What confuses me is that in the instructions is states that if no Batregs
are connected SW3-1 will have no effect. Am I missing something, or do I
just need to keep all the SW3-x OFF for basic operation?
You may be reading setup info for the Beta chargers. I thought that was
taken off the site.
You have 8 dips
# 1 is voltage peak detect start of timer.You want this one on.
#3 and #4 are Regbuss latch, you want the latch off but the regbuss enabled.
Don't worry I just want it that way for now.
So the chargers ship with 1,3,4 on. And for your applications this will be
fine.
I would do a Lower voltage charge first to make sure everything is basicly
fine. Once that is done then up the voltage to 7.5 per battery, and monitor
for gassing and a raising voltage. If the voltage fall while charging,
Terminate the cycle and let the batteries cool.
Be carfull with the equalizing charge. Also should some acid leak or mist
TURN the CHARGER OFF before cleaning up the Acid tracks. With flooded
batteries and a non isolated charger, don't work on the EV while it's being
charged.
Thanks!
Glenn
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Rau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm trying to locate a DC-DC Converter that can handle an
> input voltage of 180V (15ea. Optima's)
>
> The system that I am putting together now is 156V, and I
> recently found space for two more batteries, so I am
> considering adding them to help my range.
Check out Astrodyne's offerings:
<http://www.astrodyne.com/astro/product_main_matrix.asp?dept_id=3&watts=
67>
At the 300W level, the PSP300-13.5
<http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/PSP300.pdf> (13.5V/22A output,
adjustable from 12-15V) looks good as it will run on 124-370VDC and
costs $188.00 in onesies. The SP-300-13.5 is a couple bucks cheaper and
a couple watts lower output, but otherwise similar specs and looks to be
a smaller package.
Or, if you want more oomph, move up to the PSP500-13.5 or SP500-13.5
<http://www.astrodyne.com/astro/product_main_matrix.asp?dept_id=3&watts=
73> similar specs as the 300W models, but 500W output (36A @ 13.5V) and
about $260 each.
At 600W (40A @ 15V), the SCN600-15 is an option for $282. It is not
universal input, so you have to use a switch to select the appropriate
input voltage range (130-180VDC/260-370VDC).
Up at the 1000W level the PSP1000-13.5
<http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/PSP1000.pdf> looks good at $524.
In general, any of the PSP lineup look good since they auto-recover from
overload and over temperature fault conditions while the SCN needs to be
power cycled to recover. The PSP300 responds to overload with constant
voltage limiting, while the PSP500 & 1000 do constant current (better).
The SP500 does fold-back limiting. Note that the PSP series support
parallel operation and it is about the same cost to run a pair of 500W
units as to run a single 1000W one, so you could start with a single
PSP500 and add another later if you determine it to be necessary.
> (Note- my accessory loads will include a ceramic heater,
> mid-level audio system, normal lighting).
The heater normally runs off the pack voltage, so don't count this in
your 12V system load. Most people manage with a 300W DC/DC and an
auxiliary battery of some sort. A 500W DC/DC and an auxiliary battery
should result in a 12V system even John Wayland could live with; put a
1000W DC/DC in and you might even get him to drool ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You're right Phil. I plan on powering the heater from the main pack.
Thanks for the heads up.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Philip Marino
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 4:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: DC-DC Converters
>From: "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>Before I settle on a 168V pack, I want to know if there is an option out
>there. Would it be insane to do a partial pack tap in a system using AGM's
>and Rutman Regs. Optimas are balance-sensitive enough as is. Drawing
>watts from less than the full pack may be a nasty thing to do. (Note- my
>accessory loads will include a ceramic heater, mid-level audio system,
>normal lighting).
>
Do you mean that the ceramic heater power ( usually 1000-3000 watts) will be
taken from the 12V accessory system? Usually the resistance cabin heater is
powered by the main pack ( at full pack voltage). At 12 volts, you would be
using 100 amps or more.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hey I just got a PDF from Mean Well for Power supplies for the PFC50
chargers.
The 125 watt units can be trimmed to 14.25 to 15.5 volts
And you can feed them 127 to 370 DC as well as 90 to 264 VAC. This gets to
be a pretty good DC/DC converter for $70 bucks.
As I have said The Uni input power supplies are getting close to useable
DC/DC converters.
These are the PPS-125 series Supplies
They are 2x what I am using, and 2x the price, But they have better specs
than what I am using now, and You can get them before August '05....
Madman
Manzanita Micro
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is good stuff Roger. Astrodyne looks like it would work, but
before I take the plunge I need to ask about the ability of DCDC
converters like this to also address the needs of the auxiliary battery.
I assume that the 13.5V 300W or 500W output would cause a lot of gassing
toward the end of charge.
Should I be looking only at DCDC Converters *with* battery charging
capabilities?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 12:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: DC-DC Converters
Richard Rau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'm trying to locate a DC-DC Converter that can handle an
> input voltage of 180V (15ea. Optima's)
>
> The system that I am putting together now is 156V, and I
> recently found space for two more batteries, so I am
> considering adding them to help my range.
Check out Astrodyne's offerings:
<http://www.astrodyne.com/astro/product_main_matrix.asp?dept_id=3&watts=
67>
At the 300W level, the PSP300-13.5
<http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/PSP300.pdf> (13.5V/22A output,
adjustable from 12-15V) looks good as it will run on 124-370VDC and
costs $188.00 in onesies. The SP-300-13.5 is a couple bucks cheaper and
a couple watts lower output, but otherwise similar specs and looks to be
a smaller package.
Or, if you want more oomph, move up to the PSP500-13.5 or SP500-13.5
<http://www.astrodyne.com/astro/product_main_matrix.asp?dept_id=3&watts=
73> similar specs as the 300W models, but 500W output (36A @ 13.5V) and
about $260 each.
At 600W (40A @ 15V), the SCN600-15 is an option for $282. It is not
universal input, so you have to use a switch to select the appropriate
input voltage range (130-180VDC/260-370VDC).
Up at the 1000W level the PSP1000-13.5
<http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/PSP1000.pdf> looks good at $524.
In general, any of the PSP lineup look good since they auto-recover from
overload and over temperature fault conditions while the SCN needs to be
power cycled to recover. The PSP300 responds to overload with constant
voltage limiting, while the PSP500 & 1000 do constant current (better).
The SP500 does fold-back limiting. Note that the PSP series support
parallel operation and it is about the same cost to run a pair of 500W
units as to run a single 1000W one, so you could start with a single
PSP500 and add another later if you determine it to be necessary.
> (Note- my accessory loads will include a ceramic heater,
> mid-level audio system, normal lighting).
The heater normally runs off the pack voltage, so don't count this in
your 12V system load. Most people manage with a 300W DC/DC and an
auxiliary battery of some sort. A 500W DC/DC and an auxiliary battery
should result in a 12V system even John Wayland could live with; put a
1000W DC/DC in and you might even get him to drool ;^>
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> hey I just got a PDF from Mean Well for Power supplies for
> the PFC50 chargers.
<http://www.trcelectronics.com/Meanwell/pdf/pps125.pdf>
> The 125 watt units can be trimmed to 14.25 to 15.5 volts
> And you can feed them 127 to 370 DC as well as 90 to 264 VAC.
This is for the 15V output model; the 13.5V model trim range is
12.82-14.17V, which might be a better range for a DC/DC.
> This gets to be a pretty good DC/DC converter for $70 bucks.
Note that it is open frame and is rated only 100W convection cooled; you
need to add your own 18CFM fan for the 125W rating. Efficiency is a bit
low at 80%.
I notice that the datasheet format is suspiciously similar to that of
Astrodyne's products...
Astrodyne offers the RS100-15 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/RS100.pdf>
for $61 (trim range 14.25-16.5V, 100W enclosed with hiccup overload
behaviour), or the RS150-15 for $65.
Astrodyne's SP100-13.5 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/SP-100.pdf> is
$88, but is enclosed, can be trimmed from 12.8-14.9V, and has constant
current overload protection rather than the Meanwell's foldback
limiting.
Still, 100W (about 7A output) is a bit whimpy for a DC/DC, and if you
figure that about 300W is
needed to do the job properly, then Astrodyne's PSP300-13.5 at $188
offers better bang for your buck (the PSP500-13.5 is better still, at
$0.52/W vs the PSP300's $0.62/W or the Meanwell's $0.70/W).
> They are 2x what I am using, and 2x the price,
If you are at about the 50-60W level, then the following Astrodyne
models might be of interest to you:
OFM60-150 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/OFM4060.pdf> 60W 15V, $33/1
$29/qty 10, universal AC input, but no DC input range specified, open
frame. Effciency 85%.
LPS50-15 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/LPS50.pdf> 50W 15V, $39/1
$29/qty 10, universal AC/127-370VDC input, open frame. Efficiency 84%.
RS50-15 <http://datasheet.astrodyne.com/RS50.pdf> 50W 15V, $39/1 $33/qty
10, universal AC/125-373VDC input, enclosed. Efficiency 83%.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>> If you do find a planetary that has 2 speeds,
>>> finding one where the gear
>>> ratio differences is >= 1.5 is also difficult.
>> It is? Have you ever heard of a powerglide? And the
>> gearset id about 2.83-1 and direct drive. All one has
>> to do is build a case, bearings for it.
> In this context, I was referring to use on a M/C. A PG would be
> way too big.
The Powerglide used in the 1960-1969 Chevy Corvairs is quite small. The
ratios are 1.82:1 in first and 1:1 in second gear. It also has the
advantage that the torque converter and transmission are two separate
units, so it would be easier to leave off the torque converter.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< This is good stuff Roger. Astrodyne looks like it would work, but
before I take the plunge I need to ask about the ability of DCDC
converters like this to also address the needs of the auxiliary battery.
I assume that the 13.5V 300W or 500W output would cause a lot of gassing
toward the end of charge.
Should I be looking only at DCDC Converters *with* battery charging
capabilities? >>
A 12v lead-acid battery won't gas until it reaches 14.4v (2.4v/cell), and if the
dc/dc is off when the EV is not in use, it shouldn't be a problem whether or not
it is labelled a "battery charger".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The Powerglide used in the 1960-1969 Chevy Corvairs is quite
> small. The ratios are 1.82:1 in first and 1:1 in second gear.
> It also has the advantage that the torque converter and
> transmission are two separate units, so it would be easier to
> leave off the torque converter.
Do you perhaps mean that the front pump and transmission are separate
units? (The torque convertor and transmission are always separate units
;^)
Another possibility is the Ford FMX automatic transmission; it is
unusual in that the bellhousing unbolts from the tranny, such that the
tranny itself is quite compact. Unfortunately, I believe the tranny
case is steel rather than aluminum as is the case for most all other
(North American) automatic trannies.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
I think it may be a beta charger. It's Jim Coate's old PFC20. Does that
change your answer to number 2?
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: PFC20 Charging Questions
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 11:08 AM
> Subject: PFC20 Charging Questions
>
>
>
> I've gotten my new batteries installed, and am getting ready to charge
them
> for the first time. I have a couple of basic questions:
>
> My pack setup is 22 - 6 Volt flooded led acid. (Sam's Stowaway)
>
> 1. I'm doing an equalizing charge first, do I just turn the voltage limit
> up and monitor the batteries manually until they hit 7.5v per cell? Is
this
> the norm for doing an equalizing charge with a basic (no batregs, etc)
> PFC-20 setup? So basically any time I get ready to do an equalizing
charge
> I'm just going to turn the voltage limit up a bit and monitor the voltage
/
> amps manually?
> Correct.
>
> 2. After reading the instructions many times, I have one questions (I
> think) about the way the charger works... It seems it charges until the
> pack reaches a specific voltage limit, and then depending on the
> configuration it kicks off a shutoff timer. It seems like switching
SW3-1
> ON would be the most basic setup. It would charge until the pack reached
> the voltage limit, then start the shutoff timer for the specified time.
> What confuses me is that in the instructions is states that if no Batregs
> are connected SW3-1 will have no effect. Am I missing something, or do I
> just need to keep all the SW3-x OFF for basic operation?
>
> You may be reading setup info for the Beta chargers. I thought that was
> taken off the site.
>
> You have 8 dips
> # 1 is voltage peak detect start of timer.You want this one on.
>
> #3 and #4 are Regbuss latch, you want the latch off but the regbuss
enabled.
> Don't worry I just want it that way for now.
> So the chargers ship with 1,3,4 on. And for your applications this will be
> fine.
> I would do a Lower voltage charge first to make sure everything is basicly
> fine. Once that is done then up the voltage to 7.5 per battery, and
monitor
> for gassing and a raising voltage. If the voltage fall while charging,
> Terminate the cycle and let the batteries cool.
> Be carfull with the equalizing charge. Also should some acid leak or mist
> TURN the CHARGER OFF before cleaning up the Acid tracks. With flooded
> batteries and a non isolated charger, don't work on the EV while it's
being
> charged.
>
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Glenn
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There isn't one entry for an AMC car on the EV Album - seems like as good a
candidate as the oversized American iron some people convert:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4551051622
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This was the missing link I was hoping to hear. So in normal system
operation, the converter's output voltage of about 13.5V is good for both
the accessory demand AND a 'float' or 'finishing' charge for the batt.
This opens up the options and explains why several of the posts have
referred to DCDC Converters only and have not mentioned the batt charge
function. Thanks/gracias/danke/Merci/and all others.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 5:34 PM
To: EV Discussion List
Subject: RE: DC-DC Converters
<< This is good stuff Roger. Astrodyne looks like it would work, but
before I take the plunge I need to ask about the ability of DCDC
converters like this to also address the needs of the auxiliary battery.
I assume that the 13.5V 300W or 500W output would cause a lot of gassing
toward the end of charge.
Should I be looking only at DCDC Converters *with* battery charging
capabilities? >>
A 12v lead-acid battery won't gas until it reaches 14.4v (2.4v/cell), and if
the
dc/dc is off when the EV is not in use, it shouldn't be a problem whether or
not
it is labelled a "battery charger".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Looking for suggestions on a contactor for my sevcon millipak
> from anyone who has used one. It can either use 48VDC coil or
> 24VDC coil. Max amps would be 330 on 48VDC for a very short
> while To get to 24vdc it PWM's the contactor control output
> which is why I'm avoiding my first choice of a czonka III
> with the coil economizer. Thanks, Mark Hastings
Is there anything wrong with the choices offered by EV Parts?
If your normal load is much less than the 330A peak, you might be able
to get away with a cheaper contactor such as:
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=9
32> (100A continuous, 200A intermittent, 500A for 0.5s, $24.30)
Otherwise:
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=1
648> (200A continuous, 600A max, 48VDC contacts and coil, $46.35)
<http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=626&product_id=3
731> (similar specs, $49.86)
Or, for a couple bucks less Newark has an equivalent (200A
continuous/600A max) contactor with 24V coil from Stancor
<http://www.stancor.com/pdfs/pg96_97.pdf>:
<http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/endecaSearch/partD
etail.jsp?SKU=44F3648&N=4> ($43.00)
For a bit more, you can get this one in SPDT, but beware that the NC
contacts are rated at 100A continuous/300A max (half the ratings of the
NO contacts):
<http://www.newark.com/NewarkWebCommerce/newark/en_US/endecaSearch/partD
etail.jsp?SKU=44F3652&N=4> ($64.49)
Allied Electronics also distributes the Stancor contactors, and are a
few cents cheaper than Newark for the SPNO version:
<http://www.alliedelec.com/cart/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=576-1079&SEARCH=st
ancor+contactor&ID=&DESC=586%2D905> ($42.17)
...and a few bucks cheaper than Newark for the SPDT version:
<http://www.alliedelec.com/cart/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=576-1081&SEARCH=st
ancor+contactor&ID=&DESC=586%2D914> ($59.17)
Hope this helps,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another article on the Tango:
http://gizmag.com/go/4048/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There isn't one entry for an AMC car on the EV Album
Maybe it's because the Pacer is heavy and most people consider it and
the Gremlin VERY ugly designs.
I can certainly see the attraction to converting 70's era Japanese
imports thanks to the weight savings, but even those are pretty
asthetically challenged by most people's standards. As cool as White
Zombie is on the track and on the street, it doesn't jump out at people
the way sports cars do.
I say if you are going to convert some heavy American steel, at least go
with something that people can appreciate style-wise. That's why I'm
converting my 79 Corvette Stingray into an electric street rod with
custom paint, wheels, and interior in addition to the EV conversion. It
won't win any efficiency contests, and it'll probably be a dog on the
dragstrip, but it'll roast the tires at will and will be an eye-catching
electric that will inspire people where ever I drive it.
My personal conversion projects are 1/2 for my own tastes and desires,
and 1/2 to inspire others to invest in electric. Eye popping visuals
attract so much more positive attention than an electric Pacer or
Gremlin would solicit. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that an electric
Pacer conversion would likely reinforce the old stereotypes that
electrics are weird, ugly, and slow in most people's eyes.
Just my .02
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> If you do find a planetary that has 2 speeds,
> >>> finding one where the gear
> >>> ratio differences is >= 1.5 is also difficult.
>
> >> It is? Have you ever heard of a powerglide? And
> the
> >> gearset id about 2.83-1 and direct drive. All one
> has
> >> to do is build a case, bearings for it.
>
> > In this context, I was referring to use on a M/C.
> A PG would be
> > way too big.
>
> The Powerglide used in the 1960-1969 Chevy Corvairs
> is quite small.
Lee you never cease to amaze me
your right and i just happen to have one that i had
forgotten about---wish i had time to take it apart and
see how it would work---maybe for my electric trike or
this guys motorcycle????
keith
ps I'm still working on the pedal generator idea had
to make some mods--soon as i get ready for more info
on the electronics i'll contact you
The
> ratios are 1.82:1 in first and 1:1 in second gear.
> It also has the
> advantage that the torque converter and transmission
> are two separate
> units, so it would be easier to leave off the torque
> converter.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of
> thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only
> thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got a e mail from somebody in Cleveland OH who is looking for somebody to
do a conversion , anybody intrested ?
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TiM M wrote:
> Where should the crimps be? Again the helpful
> instruction state "Crimping twice insures a good
> electrical connection. First crimp should be at the
> end of the barrel". The end of the barrel closest to
> the insulation and the second crimp is somewhere in
> the middle of the barrel? This is where a picture
> could be worth a thousand words...
I don't remember where I saved this pic from:
http://img270.echo.cx/img270/579/8490570bo.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 18:33:22 -0700 (PDT)
> From: keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: EV Transmissions
> To: [email protected]
>
> >
> > The Powerglide used in the 1960-1969 Chevy Corvairs
> > is quite small.
>
>
If I remember correctly the Powerglide had a front and rear pump, which was
somewhat unusual. The
rear pump was driven by the drive shaft. Most automatics only have a front pump
driven by the
torque converter. With a Powerglide you could coast in neutral with the engine
off, then drop it
in gear and start the engine like a standard. With any automatic you have to
keep the pump moving
to maintain pressure to keep it in gear. Is there a way to use electric motors
to actuate the
bands of an automatic and avoid the whole hydraulic control issue? Then again
you'd also have to
find a way to keep the pistons behind the clutch packs engaged. And you'd still
need fluid
splashing around for lubrication.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
