EV Digest 4383
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) TdS Report #59: Philadelphia Daily News Story: West Philly Win Spares
Program
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Fwd: Re: EV Transmissions
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: FW: Is this Welding idea possible? 2nd pass
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: On Welding
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Fwd: Re: Bench testing an ADC 9'
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Fwd: Re: EV Transmissions
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 2005 Power of DC June 11th
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BadFishRacing)
8) RE: Where is the best buy on ADC motors? (e-commerce rant)
by "Sweeney, John P" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Where is the best buy on ADC motors? (e-commerce rant)
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: FW: Is this Welding idea possible? 2nd pass
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BadFishRacing)
11) Re: On Welding
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 120-volt Magnacharger (was Re: GFCI with PFC?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: FW: Is this Welding idea possible? 2nd pass
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: 2005 Power of DC June 11th
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: FW: Is this Welding idea possible? 2nd pass
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: FW: Is this Welding idea possible? 2nd pass
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Veggy oil (was TdS Report #56: Monte Carlo Rally: Just for Fun)
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #59: Philadelphia Daily News Story: West Philly Win Spares Program
The following was reported in the Philadelphia Daily News (used with
permission).
Auto academy is spared cut; W. Philly teacher spot was to be axed
A squad of students from an underachieving city high school custom-built
an eye-catching, fuel-efficient sports car that topped the nation's best
engineering schools in a national competition.
How were they rewarded?
The principal proposed cutting an auto-shop-teacher's job, leading to the
potential loss of two other connected faculty members, and the possible
dismantling of the program.
But after a day of budget talks, the school district's chief executive, Paul
Vallas, said that West Philadelphia High School's Automotive Academy, fresh off
a weekend victory at the eco-friendly vehicle competition, the Tour de Sol,
will remain intact.
"That program is not going to be touched," Vallas said. "If anything, it might
be expanded."
One of the teachers, David Jenkins, was slated to lose his job in the budget
proposed by second-year principal Clifton James, district officials confirmed.
"By removing the teacher's spot and not giving us the resources we need, we
feel they are not supporting us," said Simon Hauger, a math and science teacher
who led the student team that won the competition.
James wanted to use the auto academy area for students with disciplinary
problems, Hauger said. In response to the potential changes, Hauger considered
jobs at other schools. Another teacher, Ronald Preiss, requested a transfer.
That would have left the auto program with one teacher.
James did not return calls from the Daily News.
Vallas said that he contacted Hauger on Tuesday to congratulate him and the
West Philadelphia team for winning the Tour de Sol.
"At that time, I asked him, 'How much more do you need?' " Vallas said.
The auto academy, Vallas said, will be a "signature program" at the new West
Philadelphia High School, now in the planning stages. Vallas hopes to break
ground on a facility by next January, but a site has not been selected yet.
"This program keeps the kids off the streets," said Jacques Baptiste, a senior
at West Philadelphia, who was on the winning Tour de Sol team that spent two
years building a soybean-oil-fueled car with a 300-horsepower engine.
Students in the program often linger in the garage well beyond school hours, on
weekends and during school breaks.
Devereaux Knight, another participant, said that he considered moving to New
Jersey, where his brother lives, to attend high school.
"The only reason I stayed here is because of the auto program," said Knight, a
senior who dreams of opening a garage with some of his partners in the program.
Students said that most of the kids who go through the auto program attend
college.
"There is a transportation industry begging for qualified individuals," Vallas
said.
Hauger, who spent the day speaking with officials from the district, said, "I
hope that they follow through with everything they said."
He said that he and the teacher who asked to transfer will remain at West
Philadelphia as long as the proposed position is not cut and other needs are
met.
"There is a lot of tension at schools this time of year because of resources
that have to be stretched," said Al Bichner, deputy chief academic officer for
the district.
"This is just part of the budget dance," Vallas said.
Copyright 2005 Philadelphia Daily News
All Rights Reserved
Used with permission.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I may have missed parts of this thread.
Some of the machine tools I have run with gear boxes, shifted by stopping
the spindle and slowing rocking the drive motor back and forth a few
degrees while it shifted gears. They were older machines, but if that is
necessary it would not work to well in a EV.
_____________
Andre' B.
At 02:19 PM 5/23/2005, you wrote:
Hi Eric and All,
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> These guys make 2 speed gearboxes for spindles, as
> well.
>
> http://www.andantex.com/msd.html
Now that's a great gear box!! The motor inline
version is just how I see using the Powerglide
gearset, just need to build the housing for it it
seems.
Can anyone get the price for the inline version
of this?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Evan Tuer wrote:
>
> >Hi Jerry, ZF make a 2-speed, solenoid operated
> gearbox for machine
> >tools. Might be useful, might not..
> >
>
>http://www.daviesmarketing.com/full_release.asp?compnameid=44&releaseid=506
> >
> >Regards
> >Evan
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have done that with a Lincoln WeldPak 100 and flux core wire, 36 volts is
a bit hot, would do a single pass but weld in 1/2 plate to about 80%
penetration but the little copper wire feeding the gun and the gun itself
got hot fast.
I setup a small engine driving an aircraft generator charging a 24 volt
battery pack. That way I can adjust the voltage from 24 volts (old
batteries) to about 30 volts. I also have some resistors I can put into
the circuit. The batteries do a good job of smoothing thinks out and keep
the engine running during high current events and with the aircraft
generator give me an electric start that will get the engine running or
else. Starter puts out way more power then the engine can.
I still have to get a small inverter so I can run the wire feeder in the
Lincoln and have a completely portable welder. A 24 volt unit run from the
welding batteries would be nice but may not last long while welding, so I
may need a separate battery for the inverter.
______________
Andre' B.
At 07:13 AM 5/24/2005, you wrote:
Subject: Is this Welding idea possible?
Having read about 115 Volt MIG welders and also about 'Ford' battery
welders, I thought, "Why not combine the 2 for greater capacity?"
If the DC voltage on the welder is 36, why not place 3-12Volt batteries in
parallel to boost the current?
Am I off base with this idea?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland,
Never heard of the aluminum solder. I wonder how strong it is?
Lead welding can't be too different from soldering -- I'm pretty sure
you can melt plain lead with a soldering iron.
Roland Wiench wrote:
Hello Eric,
Did you ever tried to weld aluminum with aluminum solder? It looks just like 50/50 solder on a roll, but it is weld with oxygen-acetylene at a low heat.
I went to my radiator shop to have a aluminum pipe stubs welded to a aluminum
radiator. When I pick it up, the welds on the pipe nipples are outstanding.
Very smooth weld bead. They do a lot of custom aluminum welding for show cars.
I said you are very good with a TiG welder, they said, they used aluminum
radiator solder. Is very easy to work with. Normally sold only to radiator
shops. Latter I went to a industrial welding company, and they do not know
about aluminum solder or they don't like to admit there is something like that.
With aluminum solder, you can weld a heavy aluminum pipe nipple or 1/4 inch
brackets to a paper thin aluminum radiator.
How about Lead welding? This is useful for EV'ers with there lead batteries.
On my second set of batteries, which were 2 volt 300 AH cells, you had to weld
the all the post together with lead links. I used a Victor lead welding tip,
that has a long pencil flame for lead work.
I have heard that there is a electric lead welding technique that works better than gas. I have not found out anything on this.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Poulsen<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 9:17 AM
Subject: On Welding
Last year I took a welding course, specifically so that I could
(eventually) build an EV. In the end, I bought a Victor gas setup.
Here's my take. I'm sure I made some mistakes, and there will be
differences of opinion, but here goes:
Gas advantages:
* Easy to weld thin sheet / tubing (for frames)
* Cuts steel very quickly
* Heating and bending; don't underestimate the handiness of heating
steel red hot and bending it into a needed shape.
* More versatile than any other type of welder.
* Relatively inexpensive
* "Duty cycle" is at least 7 hours (you gas guys know what I mean), if
you have the oxygen available.
Gas disadvantages:
* Considerably more practice is needed. I wouldn't be surprised if > 40
hours of practice are needed for welds that are strong, but not
necessarily pretty. Also, it takes a bit to get used to different
thicknesses of metals, and the heat input required to either melt them,
or preventing holes from being blown in them by the torch.
* Transportation of cylinders requires a pickup truck
* Much larger "heat affected zone" of the welds
* Welding aluminum / stainless requires special fluxes. Not even sure
you can weld stainless with gas. Of course, if you weld aluminum or
stainless with a mig/tig, you need aluminum or stainless wire / rod,
also, unless it's a fusion weld.
* Gas welding is less common, meaning you won't find welding rod (or
other supplies) at Lowe's or Home Depot.
* Much slower
MIG/TIG advantages:
* Generally easier to learn than gas, though I think MIG is easier than TIG.
* Equipment and materials are relatively easy to find
* Clean, professional looking welds are more easily achieved
* MIG equipment is relatively inexpensive
* Welding speed is faster
MIG/TIG disadvantages:
* TIG welders are pricey
* Duty cycle sucks. Unless you get a big $$$ welder, you'll be welding
3-5 minutes, max out of a 10 minute cycle.
* For TIG and some MIG, you still have to transport gas cylinders,
though it's smaller bottles of inert gas.
* You *might* have to beef up your wiring to provide enough current,
especially with the larger models
* Heating / bending / cutting is not possible (and plasma cutters are
very expensive)
* Powerful UV rays are emitted, which can cause sunburn, eyeburn, and
skin cancer. Protective gear is always necessary for any welding, but
you really need to cover exposed skin with the electric methods. I got
a bad sunburn on my neck when I was stick welding, where my collar
wasn't completely closed below my face shield.
Stick welding: Cheap, takes practice, but generally only good for
thicker metal (3/8" and up)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 2 - What the best way to step down a 27 volt pack to this voltage for
> > bench testing?
>
> Use fewer cells. Maybe use 1/2 the cells at a time.
>
Duh! Why didn't I think of that? I can easily change a couple of interconnects
or just tap off the
middle and run each side seperately. Thanks for the smack in the head, I needed
it.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If someone is checking prices, I'd be interested in the price for the
"parallel" version.
jerry dycus wrote:
Hi Eric and All,
--- Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
These guys make 2 speed gearboxes for spindles, as
well.
http://www.andantex.com/msd.html
Now that's a great gear box!! The motor inline
version is just how I see using the Powerglide
gearset, just need to build the housing for it it
seems.
Can anyone get the price for the inline version
of this?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Evan Tuer wrote:
Hi Jerry, ZF make a 2-speed, solenoid operated
gearbox for machine
tools. Might be useful, might not..
http://www.daviesmarketing.com/full_release.asp?compnameid=44&releaseid=506
Regards
Evan
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tim. Sounds like an impressive task. Should be a fun exercise. I guess a few
things to prepare:
Try to get the design worked out ahead of time, mechanical and electrical.
This is where I spend a lot of my time.
Try to get the vehicle mechanically sound. Like brakes, steering, all that non
EV stuff. Maybe the drivetrain too, at least rear axle, jackshaft. Could do
the motor mounts later.
So come race day it's just:
Build some battery racks.
Mount the motor, controller, hardware.
Wire up everything.
That's essentially the entire EV package. At least for me, it's the
mechanicals that take forever. The EV side is a piece of cake.
Hopefully I can lend a hand as well.
Although you can't get to the track, you can camp out in front of the gates
Friday night and start work there?
Good Luck.
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
-------------- Original message from "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
--------------
> OK I think there is enough interest... I will bring the car unfinished.
>
> It will be a rolling chassis.
>
> I will be bringing my real cheap wire feed welder if any one wants to give it
> a
> shot and see just how simple these
> things are. Like most have implied...If you can use a pen you can use a
> wire-feed welder. The only tough part is
> deciding what size pen-tip you need (wire-feed speed). I'll have steel
> available
> also.
>
> Oh, btw, anyone know where to get parts for these chicom welders? Mine needs
> a
> new feed tube. Some idiot(me) tried to
> feed a (barbed)piece of wire down it and scratched it, so now it's plugged.
> Well
> it was plugged, I cut and spliced it,
> but that just isn't right. It needs to be replaced. This is just a semi-rigid
> plastic tube with a slightly larger
> than .035" I.D.
>
> We'll have some work to do!!!
>
>
>
> --
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> "Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated,
> it
> develops into Arrogance, which is often
> fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I for one support Otmar's outlook. He makes the very best controller
available and his technical support is outstanding. I don't mind sending
him a check and waiting for it to clear. If we don't support those that
supply superior products at reasonable prices we will be building with
junk at unfair prices.
Pat Sweeney
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Otmar
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 12:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Where is the best buy on ADC motors? (e-commerce rant)
At 2:31 AM -0400 5-23-05, Neon John wrote:
>This ain't brain surgery. It doesn't take millions to set up an
>e-commerce site.
At 9:16 PM -0700 5-22-05, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>But nice website that is up to date and informative is NOT expensive
nor
>terribly diffacult.
>Even if you aren't setup to handle credit cards, you can use something
>like Paypal to handle the credit card transaction and you'll recieve
all
>your orders via email.
I can't speak for the other vendors, but I for one don't really like
giving 30% of my profits to a credit card company. Then to add insult
to injury I have to carry the liability for a "chargeback" if the
card was stolen or fraudulently used. This could happen months after
I shipped the product out. The credit card companies do a lot to
protect the consumer, but they do most of it by passing costs to the
vendor.
Here I am trying to make a living, while doing my best to make high
quality parts available for a good cause. Doing this I just can't see
supporting the credit card companies to the tune of 3% of my gross
sales. What a racket they have! (yes, I know, If I had high volumes
and/or had the card here to swipe, the cost would only be 1.7%, but
it seems they consider internet sales high risk)
At one time I thought I would just pay the fees, and tried out Paypal
since it seemed pretty easy. I found there's a problem with them that
they have a whole lot more hoops to jump through for the customer
when the charge goes over $2000. (which many of mine do) In addition
they put various kinds of liability limits on overseas transactions.
Maybe it's my dislike for bureaucracy, but every time I look into the
credit card thing I feel very cheated and frustrated. They do thinks
like write on your contract that you are not allowed to discount the
price for non credit card transactions, this because they want a
monopoly on the business. Financially there is no doubt that are
making lots of money off of us.
In the end I figure people can send me a check and wait for it to
clear. After 14 years in the business it's not likely I'll be running
off with their money, and I haven't been able to get my delivery lead
times for a controller under 3 weeks in years.
As for keeping up my website: Guilty as charged, it's hard to
navigate and I've been planning a upgrade for over a year. Last time
it took a few days solid work to revamp it, I expect the same again.
At least I do keep the price and availability page pretty current,
even if it is hard to find...
It's here btw: http://cafeelectric.com/products/price/index.html
Just my 2.9%...
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 24 May 2005 09:09:50 -0400, "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I agree with Otmar! Pay Pal is a pain in the ass to work with. As a
>Netgain Motor guy now, dealer/agent, been for awile. But didn't want to
>gloat about it on the List. I have sold a few motors, one by Pay Pal, and
>they give you a hard time collecting over 500 in a month! Took TWO months to
>collect for a 8 incher I sold. Phooey!They wanted me to get one of their
>credit cards, and other crap to collect the cash. I don't wanna get that
>involved! I'm not too confortable that they have E access to my Bank
>account, like a personnal relationship, it's a hellova lot harder to get OUT
>of than to get IN to!!I'm happy with checks, thet have, the banks have
>joined the 20th century, checks will clear in mere days, now! As Otmar
>pointed out, the Credit Card folks rip off bizes Big Time! I never realized
>that from the Biz guy's end! I feel as an Agent to have a few of the Product
>in STOCK, I have one 9 incher lerking in the garage ready for adoption. Will
>restock this summer when I get some of my other finantial stuff sorted out.
>Lead time can be RIGHT Now! to several weaks, depending on Warfield's
>production timing.Am thinking of the new 8-9 incher, smaller than the stock
>9 but as strong.Damn things are HEAVY ya hafta ship truck,or better yet
>TRUNK! no UPS Sigh!The 18 wheeler they shipped it to me couldn't even GET
>in my driveway! I gotta set something up with a local biz in town who has a
>shipping dock! A convenient drive from East point areas to pick up and adopt
>your new motor.I take ya out to lunch in a working EV to see how nicely the
>motor can work, Bla Bla Bla! Be coming down to Power of DC, could deliver a
>9 incher to anybody that needs one.
>
> Sorry, got off the Deep end selling stuff, not really the List's purpose
I think this is relevant to the list because the sad state of EV
E-commerce is an putoff to many people, myself included.
Bob, please don't take this personally but if you don't have inventory
then what do you think makes you deserve the 100% markup that most EV
parts get these days? My second thought is that if you're not set up
to do business then you're not really in business. If your inventory
comes in via truck then you gotta have a dock, a forklift or something
similar. I've gone the business-in-the-basement route and was fairly
successful at it but it sure was a PITA compared to having a facility
suited to the business.
The main reason I'm writing is to discuss credit cards and paypal. A
vendor using Paypal tells me he's to disreputable to be a regular CC
merchant and so I avoid him. After all, trash tends to collect in
clumps.....
I just bit the bullet last week and started accepting credit cards in
my restaurant. I signed up with my bank (First Tennessee). It cost
me $500 for the machine (grumble....) but the rest of the deal is OK.
0.3% commission plus 20 cents a transaction. The commission doubles
if I don't swipe the card. The money sweeps to my checking account
every night at 10 pm, an hour after I close.
Now I don't like to leak money any more than the next guy but I can
live with six tenths of a percent commission for phone-in (soon
internet) orders in return for having my money by the end of business.
This rate is for a few hundred dollars a day in CC charges. My
commission rate will go down even more as my CC volume increases.
I spent several days talking with both the sales droid and a DP
person. They can provide me back-end processing for my web site at no
extra charge and will provide a DP person to help me set it up.
Even for someone as anal as I am about money matters this was a
painless procedure. I probably should have done this years ago.
I've looked around the net and am amazed at the commissions some of
these 3rd party processors are charging. 3% and more. If that was
all I saw of CC processing then I'd think it was a ripoff too. I
wonder if any of you EV parts vendors have talked to your bank? Or
any other banks?
I'm fully electronic now with my money management. My bank provides
e-banking hookups to Quickbooks. With that system I issue checks from
my desktop and the bank takes care of getting the money to where it is
supposed to go. EFT, ACH, even actual checks. Deposits, whether real
or CC-based, come in automatically. I handle no paper other than a
few bills from some backward companies that have not yet learned about
e-banking. My bookkeeping has gone from over an hour a day to maybe 5
minutes. At the end of the year I burn a CD and hand it to my CPA.
That takes care of tax filings.
I'm not a computer guru as some would accuse. I know my way around
computers but I do not do recreational computing. I simply do what I
have to in order to present a professional appearance to the outside
world and to cut down on my recurring tasks.
John
>
>> I can't speak for the other vendors, but I for one don't really like
>> giving 30% of my profits to a credit card company. Then to add insult
>> to injury I have to carry the liability for a "chargeback" if the
>> card was stolen or fraudulently used. This could happen months after
>> I shipped the product out. The credit card companies do a lot to
>> protect the consumer, but they do most of it by passing costs to the
>> vendor.
>
>> Yeah! They have PLENTY of money at the hidious interest rates they can
>charge!I never knew this!
>
>> Here I am trying to make a living, while doing my best to make high
>> quality parts available for a good cause. Doing this I just can't see
>> supporting the credit card companies to the tune of 3% of my gross
>> sales. What a racket they have! (yes, I know, If I had high volumes
>> and/or had the card here to swipe, the cost would only be 1.7%, but
>> it seems they consider internet sales high risk)
>
>> Maybe they don't get their "Cut" on On line stuff?
>
>> At one time I thought I would just pay the fees, and tried out Paypal
>> since it seemed pretty easy. I found there's a problem with them that
>> they have a whole lot more hoops to jump through for the customer
>> when the charge goes over $2000. (which many of mine do) In addition
>> they put various kinds of liability limits on overseas transactions.
>>
>> Maybe it's my dislike for bureaucracy, but every time I look into the
>> credit card thing I feel very cheated and frustrated. They do thinks
>> like write on your contract that you are not allowed to discount the
>> price for non credit card transactions, this because they want a
>> monopoly on the business. Financially there is no doubt that are
>> making lots of money off of us.
>>
> They can go to hell, as far as we are concerned!
>
>> In the end I figure people can send me a check and wait for it to
>> clear. After 14 years in the business it's not likely I'll be running
>> off with their money, and I haven't been able to get my delivery lead
>> times for a controller under 3 weeks in years.
>>
>> As for keeping up my website: Guilty as charged, it's hard to
>> navigate and I've been planning a upgrade for over a year. Last time
>> it took a few days solid work to revamp it, I expect the same again.
>> At least I do keep the price and availability page pretty current,
>> even if it is hard to find...
>> Howthehell do you find TIME to fix up your website? Happy to say, see
>that you, like Madman, are too damn busy making the Product we all love and
>know so well.We Listers know where you are and happily come to you!<g>! Guyz
>that have the balls to DO things in our "Industry" I include Jerry Dycus
>here, too, on the Freedom EV. Progress is being made on the bodies etc.Molds
>are goin' to the boatbuilder, etc.
>
> Another thought. Silly? Yeah?Maybe there are computer geek guyz on here
>that ENJOY doing websites that would "Volunteer" to upgrade EV biz guys
>websites, for fun and being part of the EV "Cause" I would if I were a
>computer geek. Hell, I hava' nuff trouble doing my basic E mail and surfing
>stuff!Gotta schlepp it out to a computer place to get it deloused now and
>again. Like most motorists I want to turn the key and it happens.Gigabytes
>SMIGabytes! just wanna download my mail, add comments etc.
>
> OK Ha Ha! Off topic a bit. Anybody want a BOAT? My kid bought a place
>with an abandoned boat, 32 foot Trojan Brand twin screw fiberglas cruiser.
>Maybe it could be converted to electric, as the engines are out lying on the
>ground. Can't EVen GIVE it away! Can't legally burn it, take it to the Dump.
>Noooo! A minumental disposal problem!! I have thought of hauling it down to
>the sea towing it out in Long Island sound, finding a charted deep spot and
>sinking it.Fish would love it but I'm SURE there are laws about sinking
>things? Old NYC subway car bodies are being dumped at sea for fish condoes,
>nowadaze. They save the trucks and motors, though.Ran it on Free Cycle New
>Haven for MONTHS! But ya never know? EVers are a diverse lot<g>!I thought of
>a good name for it " Fuelish Pleasure"Too bad it isn't a displacement hull.
>Guy up here in Cobalt CT builds beautiful Fiberglass electric launches.A joy
>to see and sail, Fantail style hull, like a miniture Mauritania or
>Aquetania, had a ride, like sailing, except you hafta listen to everybody
>ELSES' racket! Many hyspeed boats have NO mufflers, you would be arrested if
>your CAR was that noisy!
>
> Ok my two watts worth.
>
> Seeya at Power of DC
>
> Bob
>
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you guys seen this one.
http://www.readywelder.com/home.htm
Since most of us have 2 or 3 12volt batteries laying around anyway. Oh sure,
I've used 2 batteries to tack stuff together, but never really got that setup
optimized. Plus McGuiver used it many years back to put an electrode back on a
spark plug.
The readywelder is around the price of a good MIG welder, maybe bit higher.
Plus its a spool gun, making it better for aluminum.
Or also a good way to take an old DC stick welder, plug the readywelder on the
output, and you've got MIG.
Might be the way I go when I buy my own. For now, I'll keep using Dads.
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
-------------- Original message from "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
--------------
> I have done that with a Lincoln WeldPak 100 and flux core wire, 36 volts is
> a bit hot, would do a single pass but weld in 1/2 plate to about 80%
> penetration but the little copper wire feeding the gun and the gun itself
> got hot fast.
> I setup a small engine driving an aircraft generator charging a 24 volt
> battery pack. That way I can adjust the voltage from 24 volts (old
> batteries) to about 30 volts. I also have some resistors I can put into
> the circuit. The batteries do a good job of smoothing thinks out and keep
> the engine running during high current events and with the aircraft
> generator give me an electric start that will get the engine running or
> else. Starter puts out way more power then the engine can.
> I still have to get a small inverter so I can run the wire feeder in the
> Lincoln and have a completely portable welder. A 24 volt unit run from the
> welding batteries would be nice but may not last long while welding, so I
> may need a separate battery for the inverter.
> ______________
> Andre' B.
>
> At 07:13 AM 5/24/2005, you wrote:
>
>
> >Subject: Is this Welding idea possible?
> >
> >Having read about 115 Volt MIG welders and also about 'Ford' battery
> >welders, I thought, "Why not combine the 2 for greater capacity?"
> >
> >
> >
> >If the DC voltage on the welder is 36, why not place 3-12Volt batteries in
> >parallel to boost the current?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Am I off base with this idea?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >BoyntonStu
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
> Roland Wiench wrote:
>
> >I said you are very good with a TiG welder, they said, they used
> aluminum >radiator solder. Is very easy to work with. Normally sold
> only to radiator shops. >Latter I went to a industrial welding
> company, and they do not know about >aluminum solder or they don't
> like to admit there is something like that.
>
> Any chance it was this stuff?
>
> http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=1222&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=483&iSubCat=487&iProductID=1222
Possibly. I bought some aluminum solder that sounds like this stuff. It
does indeed work. It wets clean aluminum quite well, and you can solder
even very thin materials like a pop can with it. All it takes is an
ordinary propane torch.
The solder is light, as if it has a high aluminum content. It is indeed
hard enough to grind and be drilled and threaded; but it is rather weak,
and has poor corrosion resistance. I would not depend on it for anything
structural.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim Coate wrote:
> Were 120 volt Magnechargers actually made? If so, where can I get
> me one?
Yes, there was a portable cord-connected model that plugged into a
normal 120vac wall receptacle, and had the paddle on the other end to
plug into the EV1. I don't know where you'd get one now.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wow!
Thanks for validating my 'crazy idea'.
I gather that one may use a wire feeder, etc. from a mig welder and boost
its power with batteries. Perhaps one could find a bunt out welder that
would feed the wire and use batteries for the supply.
What is your opinion of flux core vs inert gas welding?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Andre' Blanchard
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: FW: Is this Welding idea possible? 2nd pass
I have done that with a Lincoln WeldPak 100 and flux core wire, 36 volts is
a bit hot, would do a single pass but weld in 1/2 plate to about 80%
penetration but the little copper wire feeding the gun and the gun itself
got hot fast.
I setup a small engine driving an aircraft generator charging a 24 volt
battery pack. That way I can adjust the voltage from 24 volts (old
batteries) to about 30 volts. I also have some resistors I can put into
the circuit. The batteries do a good job of smoothing thinks out and keep
the engine running during high current events and with the aircraft
generator give me an electric start that will get the engine running or
else. Starter puts out way more power then the engine can.
I still have to get a small inverter so I can run the wire feeder in the
Lincoln and have a completely portable welder. A 24 volt unit run from the
welding batteries would be nice but may not last long while welding, so I
may need a separate battery for the inverter.
______________
Andre' B.
At 07:13 AM 5/24/2005, you wrote:
>Subject: Is this Welding idea possible?
>
>Having read about 115 Volt MIG welders and also about 'Ford' battery
>welders, I thought, "Why not combine the 2 for greater capacity?"
>
>
>
>If the DC voltage on the welder is 36, why not place 3-12Volt batteries in
>parallel to boost the current?
>
>
>
>
>
>Am I off base with this idea?
>
>
>
>
>
>BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Darin,
I s'pose I should mention, this is a conversion. The car previously ran as an
ICE. So, the brakes, steering, etc, are
all done.
Friday nite camping would be nice. But, I'm (tentatively) working on Friday,
and it's a six+ hour drive.
No Jackshaft. I'm bringing 4 different size sprockets, ten feet of #40 chain,
and 5 master links.
So it's basically an EV project.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 11:14 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 2005 Power of DC June 11th
>
> Tim. Sounds like an impressive task. Should be a fun exercise. I guess a
> few things to prepare:
>
> Try to get the design worked out ahead of time, mechanical and electrical.
> This is where I spend a lot of my time.
>
> Try to get the vehicle mechanically sound. Like brakes, steering, all that
> non EV stuff. Maybe the drivetrain too, at least rear axle, jackshaft.
> Could do the motor mounts later.
>
> So come race day it's just:
>
> Build some battery racks.
> Mount the motor, controller, hardware.
> Wire up everything.
>
> That's essentially the entire EV package. At least for me, it's the
> mechanicals that take forever. The EV side is a piece of cake.
>
> Hopefully I can lend a hand as well.
>
> Although you can't get to the track, you can camp out in front of the gates
> Friday night and start work there?
>
>
> Good Luck.
>
> Darin Gilbert
> BadFishRacing
>
>
> -------------- Original message from "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> --------------
>
>
>> OK I think there is enough interest... I will bring the car unfinished.
>>
>> It will be a rolling chassis.
>>
>> I will be bringing my real cheap wire feed welder if any one wants to
>> give it a shot and see just how simple these things are. Like most
>> have implied...If you can use a pen you can use a wire-feed welder.
>> The only tough part is deciding what size pen-tip you need (wire-feed
>> speed). I'll have steel available also.
>>
>> Oh, btw, anyone know where to get parts for these chicom welders? Mine
>> needs a new feed tube. Some idiot(me) tried to feed a (barbed)piece of
>> wire down it and scratched it, so now it's plugged. Well it was
>> plugged, I cut and spliced it, but that just isn't right. It needs to
>> be replaced. This is just a semi-rigid plastic tube with a slightly
>> larger than .035" I.D.
>>
>> We'll have some work to do!!!
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Stay Charged!
>> Hump
>> "Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left
>> untreated, it develops into Arrogance, which is often fatal. :-)" --
>> Lee Hart
>>
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
Wow!
Thanks for validating my 'crazy idea'.
I gather that one may use a wire feeder, etc. from a mig welder and boost
its power with batteries. Perhaps one could find a bunt out welder that
would feed the wire and use batteries for the supply.
What is your opinion of flux core vs inert gas welding?
Use inert gas whenever possible... the look and quality of the welds is
much better. Its also a little easier to see what you doing without all
the smoke from the flux burning.
Sometimes the hassle of the cylinder isn't worth it, or when your
outdoors and the wind would blow away the gas you switch to flux. Most
smaller welders can handle thicker metals when using flux core, although
I have no idea why.
If you do switch to inert gas do a couple practice welds with the gas
turned off. The looks of an unshielded and weak weld will be a bit
pitted with small rust marks. You'll want to remember that look becuase
sooner or later the bottle will run out without you noticing, or you'll
weld half a battery rack before remembering to open the valve on the
bottle... etc.
Nobody has mentioned this one but when you're welding on a vehicle watch
out for body sealant or underbody coatings near the weld area. They are
fairly flammable and even 6-8 inches away can catch fire from sparks or
just heat. If you're welding above (like in a trunk) have an observer
with a little water (for minor fires) and an fire extingisher (for
bigger fires) watching the underbody of the car. The fires are pretty
minor and do not spread quickly, but having your project go up in flames
becuase you don't notice an underbody fire would be a major bummer.
I'd also recommend getting a $50-100 dollar self darkening weld helmet.
The whole snapping your head to drop the helmet thing takes some
adjustment, and on cheaper helmets barely works at all. Plus you can't
stop and reposition without raising the helmet. Bright light on your
work area also helps a lot.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sometimes the hassle of the cylinder isn't worth it, or when your
outdoors and the wind would blow away the gas you switch to flux. Most
smaller welders can handle thicker metals when using flux core, although
I have no idea why.
Mark,
If you are working with flux core in your open door, well ventilated shop,
and if you directed a fan to blow away the gases, would gas ever be needed?
It appears that for some unknown reason, flux makes deeper welds.
Interesting.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 23:42:55 -0400
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Veggy oil (was TdS Report #56: Monte Carlo Rally: Just for Fun)
>
Hey John:
Thanks once again for some of the more technical aspects of possible VO
contaminates, and their possible effect on engine internals.
This whole VO thing is only one of many ways that the unwashed masses can
implement presently available non-petro energy sources into their existing
infrastructure in order to stop burning that gas. Unfortunately EVerybody
can't just jump up and start driving all electric today. Nothing wrong with
starting with baby steps- we all did.
I have a diesel genny that I run BioD through (I would charge with it if the
grid would ever go down but, of course, the power has not gone out in the
several years since I bought it). Not worth the hassle to convert to VO
since I don't run it that much and BioD costs about $3.50/gal. From
everything I've read, anal-retentive levels of filtering (don't touch that)
will mitigate most of the problems you highlight, however, I was not aware
of the silicone dioxide problem. Now I understand why they say you'll have
better luck/results running VO through the older engines. Heh. I guess it's
better to destroy an old Cummins than to kill a new VW turboD:^O
But that's cool since it's the older gennies, tractors, buses, et. al., that
blow more particulate out anyway. From what I've read (I know, I know, I
read too much) VO or BioD has shorter molecules/less carbon than petro fuel,
so less crap gets blown out the end.
If I had a business that went through a lot of VO, and that business needed
a truck, I would probably run that truck on VO. But that's just because I
grew up around people saying things like, "Boy, when I was yer age, we
didn't waste nothin' 'cause we didn't own enough to waste".
I think anything you can do to burn less petroleum can't be called "lunacy".
In England they're treating VO burners like criminals- writing tickets,
impounding cars, etc. Anytime the government comes after you for a
victimless crime, it's time to wonder why...
Like Mark Twain said: "Whenever you find yourself siding with the majority,
it's time to pause and reflect."
Marv
PS: We better dump this thread before DR spanks us for being OT:^O
>
> Putting on my restaurant owner's hat.....
>
> A grease collection company provides me with a tank into which I dump
> my waste grease. They don't pay me for it but on the other hand they
> don't charge for collection.
>
> There are a couple of very important things to understand about this
> situation. First, taking grease out of a grease tank is theft of
> goods. The title to my waste grease transfers to the collection
> company when it hits the tank. Says so right here in my contract. I
> agreed in my contract not to let any other entity remove grease from
> THEIR tank that is located at my restaurant. Their traditional
> concern is with rival grease collectors but if this veggie oil lunacy
> catches on, so will their concern.
>
> The second thing to know is that we (restaurants) all filter our oil
> using a treated pumice compound. The pumice agglomerates the
> heat-polymerizing oil while it is still short chained into globules
> that can be trapped by a rather coarse filter. (The long chain poly
> oil is the orange-yellow glop you see on fryers that aren't cleaned
> all that well.) We don't worry too much about getting all the pumice
> out of the oil, as the larger particles settle quickly to the bottom.
> The smaller particles (micron and below) remain in the oil but are of
> no consequence to the food product.
>
> This residual pumice is of major concern to a diesel fuel system,
> particularly a later model version with the electronic injectors.
> Pumice IS abrasive and WILL wear the precision parts inside the
> injector pump (if applicable) and the injectors.
>
> The third thing to know is that fryer oil contains a fraction of a
> percent of silicone oil as an anti-foaming agent. As anyone who has
> burned silicone RTV knows, when this oil burns it produces a fine
> white powder made up of silicon dioxide. Just like on sandpaper. A
> great substance to have floating around an engine's combustion
> chamber... NOT!
>
> To recap:
>
> * Removing grease from a grease pit is theft of a valuable product.
> * The restaurant owner does NOT have the authority to give permission
> to remove the product because he does not own it. The grease
> collection company owns it.
> * Waste fryer oil contains abrasive pumice that will go right through
> those crude filters that I see most veggie burners using.
> * Burning fryer oil releases silicon dioxide, a very hard abrasive.
>
> John
>
>
> ---
> John De Armond
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
