EV Digest 4384
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: FW: Is this Welding idea possible? 2nd pass
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Freedom EV progress, disc brakes parts needed
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Veggy oil (was TdS Report #56: Monte Carlo Rally: Just for Fun)
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What does huge battery V sag under small load mean?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Transport energy sources availability, Re: Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fwd: [RAV4-EV] June 18, 2005 EVAOSC Meeting 10AM to 1PM-Very Important for
Event Organizers to be there! Monorail, PRT, & Electric Station Car Initiative
for LA-Orange Counties, CA
by Ivan Workman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Veggy oil (was TdS Report #56: Monte Carlo Rally: Just for Fun)
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: New battery question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: FW: Is this Welding idea possible? 2nd pass
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) help....where can i find data about ev
by "Marco Gentilini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) 3 to 4.5 inch shrink wrap
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Freedom EV progress, disc brakes parts needed, EV trike goes!!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: You need a welder
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: You need a welder
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: You need a welder
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) REV!2005 - June 11th - 10th Anniversary EV Show
by "Harris, Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV digest 4383
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: OT : Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
> Having read about 115 Volt MIG welders and also about 'Ford' battery
> welders, I thought, "Why not combine the 2 for greater capacity?"
> If the DC voltage on the welder is 36, why not place 3-12Volt
> batteries in parallel to boost the current?
> Am I off base with this idea?
No; it works. 3 batteries is just a little less convenient than 2.
People weld this way in a pinch, not because it's good but because it's
easy. But you mean wiring the batteries in "series" (not parallel) to
boost the "voltage" (not the current).
You will also need enough resistance or inductance in series to
stabilize the arc and limit the current to an amount appropriate for
what you are welding.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
> But there is an issue of supply and demand... If there were more
> people then just her using that stuff... there wouldn't be enough
> to go around... the minute that grease suppliers find out that you
> are running all around town on their waste grease, they will charge
> you for it, or lock up their grease vats! Who wants to screw around
> with all the mess, processing the pumice out and all that? ...
> This sums up the vegi oil grease mobile thing! Forgetabout it!
Remember that gasoline was originally picked as a fuel because it was a
waste product, useless for anything else. Thus it was a cheap throwaway,
too! Now gasoline is in high demand, so its price is correspondingly
higher. Supply and demand.
Used fryer oil is cheap because it too is a waste product. But if there
is a demand for it as a fuel, its price will go up accordingly. Supply
and demand again.
Electricity is currently cheap, again because the supply exceeds the
demand. That's why it makes a good fuel for electric cars. But when EVs
become widespread, of course electricity costs will rise according to
supply and demand.
Which fuel is "best"? Nobody knows! Nobody CAN know! So I encourage the
creative use of *any* waste material to accomplish some useful purpose.
It doesn't matter if everyone can do it or not -- we don't WANT a
monoculture where everyone must use exactly the same fuel. Doing so only
gives someone monopoly power to control the market. We have put all our
eggs in the "gasoline" basket, and are now in danger of dropping it.
To solve the energy crisis, we want as many different solutions as
possible to be tried and developed. We can't predict the good and bad
points for each, but experimentation will teach us.
--
The grabbing hand
Grabs all it can
Everything counts
In large amounts
-- Kurt Vonnegut
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry,
Try Northern Tool. They have some fairly reasonably price disc brake and hub
kits for trailers. Was looking at them as an upgrade for C-cars. Depending
on the size you are looking for you might try Azusa Engineering as well.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
> On May 23, 2005, at 7:30 PM, jerry dycus wrote:
>
> > Could use some help sourcing some lightweight,
> > reasonable cost disc brakes, hubs and spindles for it.
> > If you have any ideas where I might find such things,
> > please let me know.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I think anything you can do to burn less petroleum can't be called "lunacy".
> In England they're treating VO burners like criminals- writing tickets,
> impounding cars, etc. Anytime the government comes after you for a
> victimless crime, it's time to wonder why...
>
I heard that they were doing this for tax reasons. If you are not buying taxed
fuel you are a tax
evader.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I use 100 volts as my floor.
130 should be used by ... others.
As it is 10 volts a battery .
I of course have Rudman Regs, and a a PFC30, but I am still on old Mk2 Regs,
not the spiffy Mk2B regs.
I have 8 year old Yts, and I lay rubber at will.
I can get 2.6Kwhr out of them on a warm day.
This is about 1/2 what I should get with new Yts.
Most of the damage happened years ago... I seem to be in the "Bad, but
still useable " Range and they are not getting much worse. I have a 8 to 10
mile range, and with dayly driving and long reg stints I can push that a few
miles if I have to.
I am also lugging around 6 Orbs that are not hooked up yet... so my range
suffers from 240 lbs of non useable lead on board.
I just secured a 120 volt charge site at the Albertson's Gas in Country
corners.. this is a 1/2 way point. Adding 15 minutes of Juice here, doubles
my potential range, and lessens the "Grind it home Dead" issue.
Expect that some wheres in your pack are some weak batteries... find them
replace just the weak ones.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Marshall (GAMES)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:41 PM
Subject: What does huge battery V sag under small load mean?
> My sparrow has the standard pack of 13 optima yellow tops. I replaced
> the last pack at 8k miles when they lost equalization in a bad way. I
> was a serious newbie and I'm not even sure now what happened exactly to
> that pack. I thought I would do better with the new one, but alas. Any
> help would be appreciated:
>
> My new pack has been used very regularly as such:
>
> 18 ah commute twice a day. (16 miles)
> Charge after each commute. (some days I forget to plug it in, so it
> does sit discharged for 24-48 hours on occasion).
> Charging with a zivan NG3.
> I have Battery Angels from Ed Ang installed since the pack was less than
> 1k miles old.
> I have a 'zilla 1k, so I can draw some real amps at times.
> I now have 7k miles on the new pack.
>
> In the winter I started having problems with the voltage sagging way
> more than I wanted. But I chalked it up to the cold, and figured it
> would get better with summer. I adjusted my controller settings to be a
> little more conservative, and so used less amp hours per commute. Even
> so I had days when I would start to hit my low voltage limit as I
> approached home (it was set to 140v).
>
> But now it's nice and hot, and the problem has gotten even worse. This
> morning I was 1 mile from work, and I had already drawn 20 ah from the
> pack (all numbers from my emeter). I was drawing 40 amps and getting
> 130 volts! When I let off the throttle, the pack quickly recovered to
> 160+ volts. But I was scared to draw too many more amps for fear of
> reversing a cell or something. (is this a real danger?)
>
> So what is causing this? Is it simple age? Is it sulfation?
>
> My first concern is can how can I squeeze the most life out of this
> pack. A new set of batteries ever 7-8k miles is just not going to fly
> on the budget.
>
> I also am wondering how low I can let the pack sag. Am I just being
> paranoid about reversing a cell?
>
> Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -Jamie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Lee Hart
> Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 5:18 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
>
> J.R. Young wrote:
> > 22 x 6v Exide 3600 (Sam's Club Batteries)...
> > [E-meter CEF] is set at 90... but I don't believe that's the (main)
> > problem. It doesn't even come close to returning all the Ah used,
> > it returned about 8ah vs the 30ah removed... I'm pretty sure I have
> > the PFC-20 voltage trim set too low. I have it set to start the shut
> > off timer when the voltage reaches 139.
>
> The fully charged voltage will vary depending on the charging current.
> For your 22x6v=132v pack it will be something like:
>
> 2.10v/cell = 139v at 0 amps, at least 8 hours after charging
> 2.25v/cell = 148.5v at 1 amp, on a float charger
> 2.4v/cell = 158.5v at 5 amps, end of bulk charge, before equalization
> 2.55v/cell = 168v at 5 amps, at the end of an equalization charge
>
> The higher the voltage, the less time it takes to reach it. For
> instance, it will take days for the current to fall under 1 amp at 148v,
> but only 1-2 hours to fall under 5 amps at 165v.
>
> Note that as the battery ages, all these currents go up and the voltages
> go down. For example, a tired old abused battery might be:
>
> 2.06v/cell = 136v at 0 amps, at least 8 hours after charging
> 2.20v/cell = 145v at 2 amps, on a float charger
> 2.37v/cell = 156v at 10 amps, at end of bulk charge, before equalization
> 2.45v/cell = 162v at 10 amps, at the end of an equalization charge
>
> As if this isn't complicated enough, the charging voltage also has a
> temperature coefficient of -0.003 to -0.005v/cell/deg.C. That is, for
> each 1 deg.C your battery is above 25 deg.C, reduce the voltages
> 0.003-0.005. Go in the opposite direction (higher charge voltages) for
> cold batteries. For example, 2.4v/cell=158.5v at 25 deg.C becomes
> 2.5v/cell at 0 deg.C.
>
> > So I think the question is, when my PFC-20 is in the main charge
> > cycle (charging at 19.5 amps), what target voltage should I be
> > aiming for to start the shut off timer?
>
> 19.5 amps is a *bulk* charging rate. You're nowhere near 100% SOC at
> this current. You have to wait until the current falls to 5-10 amps (as
> described above) before the battery is nominally at 100% SOC. Then start
> the timer, for a time depending on how much you want/need to equalize.
>
> I think the PFC-chargers are constant-current bulk, then
> constant-voltage finish. So, set the bulk current as high as your AC
> outlet allows. Set the finish voltage to 156-158.5v, depending on
> battery age and temperature.
> --
> "*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world."
> -- Mahatma Ghandi
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee, Bob, John and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Bob Rice wrote:
> > But there is an issue of supply and demand... If
> there were more
> > people then just her using that stuff... there
> wouldn't be enough
> > to go around... the minute that grease suppliers
> find out that you
There will be an easy, cheap supply of WVO for
several yrs though it will eventually be worth
something so will get charged for it but even then,
it's likely to be only $.50/gal or so. For the next 5
yrs or so, Waste Veg oil, WVO, is a good choice as a
inexpensive fuel.
And keeping money in the US where it makes jobs
instead overseas where it just gets us deeper in debt,
not supporting dictators, terrorist, big oil
companies, makes it even better.
In the future biodiesel using virgin VO will be
about the same price as diesel but again makes US
jobs, lowers debt, ect, so still a much better fuel
pollution wise too than oil products.
> Remember that gasoline was originally picked as a
> fuel because it was a
> waste product, useless for anything else. Thus it
> was a cheap throwaway,
> too! Now gasoline is in high demand, so its price is
> correspondingly
> higher. Supply and demand.
>
> Electricity is currently cheap, again because the
> supply exceeds the
> demand. That's why it makes a good fuel for electric
> cars. But when EVs
> become widespread, of course electricity costs will
> rise according to
> supply and demand.
While electricity will rise some, it won't rise
anywhere near as much as oil products.
Why is there are so many sources of electricity
including RE where the cost is mostly labor, making
jobs, keeping our money here, making even more jobs.
In the near future, you will be able to buy a
windgen at a fairly low price you can charge you EV,
home from at a cost of less than you now pay the
electric company in many areas.
One can easily do it now by building their own
from scratch.
When the rivers, tidal streams are harnessed by
non dam hrdro gens can service all the EV's we are
likely to build in electricity, about 1/2 of the US
transport fleet.
Not only am I going to build EV's, but the non
dam hydrogens to charge them with to keep electric
prices low as they make electricity at about
$.01-.02/kwhr. I'll probably move soon to a net
metering state just to get that business started.
>
> Which fuel is "best"? Nobody knows! Nobody CAN know!
On the contrary, I know!! It's electricity!!!
Why is I've already done it. It's rather easy to
make the energy you need in so many ways. We have been
stuck on oil, coal for so many yrs because of Gov
subsidies to them, that we have forgot all the other
sources of energy out there.
But with the rise of oil, coal prices, that's
about to change finally.
Lucky for EV's, electricity is the most secure,
cheapest form of energy if not right now in some
areas, then in the near future everywhere.
My $.01/mile electricity use in my EV's shows that
it is already very cheap way to use energy for
transport.
And Nukes are now under $.04/kwhr and will get
cheaper as new, more eff, inherently safe, much lower
cost reactors come online!!
> So I encourage the
> creative use of *any* waste material to accomplish
> some useful purpose.
> It doesn't matter if everyone can do it or not -- we
> don't WANT a
> monoculture where everyone must use exactly the same
> fuel. Doing so only
> gives someone monopoly power to control the market.
> We have put all our
> eggs in the "gasoline" basket, and are now in danger
> of dropping it.
Very well said Lee!! The great thing about EV's is
almost any form of energy can be eff converted to
electricity.
>
> To solve the energy crisis, we want as many
> different solutions as
> possible to be tried and developed. We can't predict
> the good and bad
> points for each, but experimentation will teach us.
Most has already been done, just the low
subsidized price of oil, coal has kept them off the
market.
They is no shortage of energy, just the ability to
bring it to market. But with rising prices, that
picture changes drasticly.
Though there will be a bad energy crunch while we
convert to other energy forms that coal, oil for about
10 yrs, after that there will be no problem.
And EV's will be a big way to make that
changeover ;-))
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> --
> The grabbing hand
> Grabs all it can
> Everything counts
> In large amounts
> -- Kurt Vonnegut
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> June 18, 2005 EVAOSC Meeting 10AM to 1PM-Very
> Important for Event Organizers to be there!
>
> Urgent!
>
> Attention all event, publicity, initiative
> organizers, celebrities, renewable energy
> consultants, electric car owners, producers,
> electric transportation experts, monorail experts,
> personal rapid transit experts, and investors, etc.!
> We need your help! Be at this meeting on June 18,
> 2005 at the South Coast Air Quality Management
> District (SCAQMD) Building in Diamond Bar from 10AM
> to 1PM!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mr. Gerald Chernick of the LA-Orange Monorail System
> is putting together a state wide initiative to
> promote and build a sustainable, integrated
> transportation system starting in the Southern
> California Region. It will include the use of
> Electric powered highway capable station cars with
> its monorail system partially powered from the grid
> through renewable energy sources such as solar. Any
> help and insight would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> �LA County Supervisor Mike Antonovich with LA~Orange
> Monorail Initiative author Gerald Chernick. Based on
> the success of the Kuala Lumpur Monorail System, the
> Initiatives also requires electric station car
> availability at the monorail stations."
>
>
>
> A couple of the initiatives goals are to:
>
> Promote the use of monorails & personal rapid
> tranist for mass transit in urban areas with use of
> electric station cars.
> Promote the use of Electric cars with a manned
> display of half-dozen or more electric cars on
> display in Downtown Disney, in Anaheim, CA.
> Session at AMC Theater in Downtown Disney on
> Monorails, Electric Cars, Personal Rapid Transit,
> and Renewable Energy.
> Fund Raise money for the state-wide initiative.
> Build a strong coalition to promote new, clean,
> electric transportation solutions to clean the air,
> fix our transportation problems, and get the USA off
> of imported oil.
>
>
>
> We currently need help in the following areas:
>
> DVDs on electric cars.
> Electric car owners with electric cars for
> display.
> People informed on monorails, electric cars,
> renewable energy, and personal rapid transit.
> People to document and record events and get
> media coverage.
> Coalition organizers
>
>
>
> Websites:
>
> LA-Orange Monorail System
>
> http://www.laorangemonorail.com/
>
> EVAOSC Yahoo Group
>
> http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/EVAOSC/
>
> Electric Auto Association
>
> http://www.eaaev.org/
>
> Don�t Crush.Org
>
> http://www.dontcrush.com/
>
> Monorail Society
>
> http://monorails.org/
>
> Riker Electric Vehicles
>
> http://rikerelectricvehicles.com/
>
> Citizens for Personal Rapid Transit
>
> http://cprt.org/
>
>
>
> Address Information and Directions to the meeting:
>
> We are the Electric Vehicle Association of Southern
> California (EVAOSC). The EVAOSC meets at 10:00AM on
> the 3rd Saturday of each month at the South Coast
> Air Quality Management District's facility at 21865
> E. Copley Dr. in Diamond Bar. We usually have a
> speaker usually once a month or a tour or public
> demonstration event or a video. This is to update
> people about up coming meetings and meeting places.
> Topics covered include electric transportation,
> electric cars, hybrids, fuel cell cars, renewable
> energy, peaking of cheap oil, US Energy Policy,
> motors, monorails, etc. Usually vehicles are
> available by members for test drives. Contact Ivan
> Workman, VP of EVAOSC at (909) 595-3365 Home or
> (909) 964-3365 Cell, if you get lost or need
> information
>
> Directions to Meeting:
>
> From Los Angeles Area: Highway 60 East to Grand
> Avenue Exit. Right on Grand Ave, then Right on
> Golden Springs, then Left on Copley Dr. Entrance
> with sign.
>
> From Pasadena Area: I-210 Freeway to Highway 57
> South to Grand Avenue Exit. Left on Grand Ave, then
> Right on Golden Springs, then Left on Copley Dr.
> Entrance with sign.
>
> From Ontario/Riverside Area: Highway 60 West to
> Grand Ave Exit. Left on Grand Ave., then Right on
> Golden Springs, then Left on Copley Dr. Entrance
> with sign.
>
> From Orange County: Highway 57 North to Grand Ave
> Exit. Right on Grand Ave., then Right on Golden
> Springs, the Left on Copley Dr. Entrance with sign.
>
>
>
> Ivan Workman
>
> VP of EVAOSC
>
> Gerald Chernick
>
> LA-Orange Monorail Initiative
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
> RAV4-EV mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 10:12:08AM -0700, Dave Cover wrote:
> --- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I think anything you can do to burn less petroleum can't be called "lunacy".
> > In England they're treating VO burners like criminals- writing tickets,
> > impounding cars, etc. Anytime the government comes after you for a
> > victimless crime, it's time to wonder why...
> >
>
> I heard that they were doing this for tax reasons. If you are not buying
> taxed fuel you are a tax
> evader.
Don't we do that in the states as well?
I seem to recall stories of people being charged extra for driving hybrids.
Seems crazy.
Has anybody been charged for driving an EV?
Thanks!
>
> Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Jeff & Diane wrote:
> > Can you mount an SLA battery on its
> > side? Will that hurt the battery in any way?
>
> In a pinch, you can mount them on their side. There might be
> some slight loss of capacity over time, and there could be
> problems if the battery ever vents under fault condition if
> the terminals are below the vents.
I have actually been told (by a manufacturer of AGM SLA batteries) that
mounting them on their sides is a 'trick' that allows slightly *greater*
capacity.
The idea is that when mounted upright, the acid in the glass mat will
gradually settle to the bottom of the cell due to gravity, leaving the
mat at the top of the cell relatively drier. Mounting the batteries on
their side such that the plates are horizontal apparently helps to
counter this effect and results in some slight increase in effective
capacity. In the case of spiral wound cells, laying the batteries on
any side works, but flat plate AGMs would need to be oriented such that
the plates are horizontal if any capacity benefit is to be observed.
I'm not sure that sideways mounting of gel SLA is recommended (although
I do have the batteries in my son's Powerwheel's jeep standing on
end...)
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
Sometimes the hassle of the cylinder isn't worth it, or when your
outdoors and the wind would blow away the gas you switch to flux. Most
smaller welders can handle thicker metals when using flux core, although
I have no idea why.
Mark,
If you are working with flux core in your open door, well ventilated shop,
and if you directed a fan to blow away the gases, would gas ever be needed?
You do not want to have a fan blow away the gases (not directly.. its ok
to have an exhaust fan or open door to vent the shop). Both the burning
flux and the inert gas (Carbon Dioxide/Argon is common for steel) are
used to protect the hot weld from oxygen. Heat plus oxygen cause the
steel to rust quickly... basically the same process used by
oxy/acetylene cutting. The gas is more likely to blow away than the
flux in a light breeze which is why you use flux core for outdoor
welding. Anything more signifigant that a light breeze requires
windscreens to be setup around the weld area.
You can use flux core for everything, it does weld thicker and you don't
have to deal with the bottle or the risk of running out of gas on a
Saturday after the weld supply store has closed. (Flux core wire is
available at the Home Depot and Lowe's in the more common sizes) The
flux core wire sends splatters all around the weld area so you metal has
a sandpaper appearance after welding. It takes a little grinding to
clean this up which can be tough on inner corners of angle iron battery
racks but no one ever sees those areas. Most light duty "MIG" welders
come from the factory setup for flux core. Go ahead and experiment with
the flux core first, and decide for yourself if the welds look "good
enough" before buying the Inert Gas kit for your welder.
When you're first learning to weld start by just laying a few dozen
beads or metal on top of a scrap 1/4" of steel. Its good practice for
learning to move the torch smoothly and lay a good bead. Experiment
with different distances from the work, wire feed speeds and angles.
Most beginners find it easier to "pull" (moving the torch and you hand
away from the weld site) since it is easier to see the weld puddle. If
you have a bandsaw try cutting apart the welds and examining the depth
of penetration into the metal.
Wire feed welding has a shallow learning curve, you can be making good
enough welds in a few minutes or an hour of practice. Great welds
(especially great looking welds) takes much practice.
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi i'm Marco from Italy,
I'm studing ev but i have some matter about finding data!
Can you help me?
Where can i find data about Ac induction Motor squirrel cage? I need power,
weight, cost, torque, rpm, output.....
Thanks Marco
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have 8 six foot tubes of clear shrink wrap. Each tube holds one 6 foot
length. Anybody interested before I Ebay it?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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Hi David and All,
--- David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jerry,
> Try Northern Tool. They have some fairly reasonably
> price disc brake and hub
> kits for trailers. Was looking at them as an upgrade
> for C-cars. Depending
Their disc kits are too big, heavy and drums are
heavy too but what the C car used. I used the drum
for the rear brake on the E-woody.
> on the size you are looking for you might try Azusa
> Engineering as well.
On the small size, big go carts, but great for some
other EV projects I'm working on.
Got my batts charged on my 1F2R EV trike and took
it for a spin. It was disassembled and sat for 2 yrs
out in the weather.
Dispite this abuse, just put in some batts,
charged and cleaned it up, then just hit the go lever
and it went!! Dam I love EV's!!! You couldn't do that
with an ICE.
Need to cycle the batts a couple times and add
another 2 to see just how fast it will go. Had a
shimmy problem with the Honda 80 Spree front end at
25mph but replaced the tire and it seems to have gone
away ;-))
With 72vdc on the golf cart transaxle it should
be a nice trike at 45mph or so.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
> David Chapman
> Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
> http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
>
> > On May 23, 2005, at 7:30 PM, jerry dycus wrote:
> >
> > > Could use some help sourcing some
> lightweight,
> > > reasonable cost disc brakes, hubs and spindles
> for it.
> > > If you have any ideas where I might find such
> things,
> > > please let me know.
> >
>
>
__________________________________
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If you take a peek on ebay I've seen lots of new flux wire
machines for about $75. I don't know about those machines
but you can convert a lot of the flux machines to use gas
with a pretty simple kit.
Dave
> Don't know about you, but $375 is a ton of money to me.
>
> Thanks for the info, though.
>
> Tony
> "Welcome to the dawn of a new error"
> http://www.notebene.net/philosophy.html
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> >>
> >> Frankly, I would love to own a MIG, but $$$ are an obstacle,
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=55236
> >
> > This $379 unit will do everything you need for a conversion.
> > Add the C-25 mix bottle and you are ready to MIG weld. You can run
> > flux-core without buying the gas bottle. (It is a little bit harder to
> > master flux-core welding, but not a lot harder.)
> >
> > I built the Wabbit and put a turbo-charged Subaru engine in a
> > Ghia using a less expensive MIG welder than the one above.
> >
> > _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> > \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > =(___)=
> > U
> > Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Jeff & Diane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The bottom line that every one of you on this DL should
> accept is that:
> 1) Welding is not everyone's bag.
Exactly!
> 2) It's cheaper to buy a welder and weld the battery boxes yourself.
I believe that most of what you pay for when buying pre-made bits is the
*design* time and knowledge that went into their design. There is also
the convenience factor of getting something that fits properly the first
time, works and looks good, and saves one the design and fabrication
time otherwise required. Time is money; if you place no value on your
time, then building everything yourself makes perfect sense. I suspect
that most people embarking on a conversion who cannot weld have not had
any need to weld in the past and most likely will have little reason to
weld after the conversion is complete. In this case, not only is the
time spent building the bits an expense (and I guarantee it will take
the hobbiest longer to do the job than it would take an experienced
weldor), but so is the time spent learning to weld.
> 4) Anyone willing to put some effort into building an EV
> should at least consider learning to weld. It's really not
> that difficult regardless of what some would have you believe.
Difficulty is not the only consideration. Most people undertake
building an EV not because they have any desire to build an EV but
simply because they want to *drive* one and building one is the only (or
only economically viable) option available.
A lot of people interested in driving an EV end up sticking with an ICE
vehicle because they simply aren't interested in (or aren't capable of)
doing a conversion on their own. While building an EV may be a
wonderful opportunity to learn to weld I don't think it is reasonable at
all to suggest that every EV hobbiest should consider learing to weld as
this simply throws up another hurdle to discourage potential EVers from
even starting a conversion.
In my own case, I couldn't buy pre-fabricated boxes for my conversion.
I designed the sheet metal boxes and provided drawings to a friend who
happens to be an instructor with the steel trades department of a local
trade school/community college. The plan was to have a student build
the boxes as a class project; he gets credit and I get boxes. As it
turned out, a suitable student wasn't available at the time, so the
instructor himself input the drawings into the computer-controlled
plasma cutter, cut the pieces out of the sheet, folded them up in the
brake, and then welded up the seams.
Had I tried to do this all myself, I would have had to cut each side of
each box out of the sheet by hand with shears (sloppy and blister prone)
or I would have had to buy both a MIG welder and a sheet metal brake
(with box capability) and at greater than 2 foot capacity. If the sides
had to be welded together to form the boxes instead of just welding the
seams, it would have taken *days* for me to assemble them, and there is
still no way I could have managed the 1/2-3/4" flange around the edges
of the lids without a brake.
My total cost for 4 boxes and lids was taking the instructor and his
wife for a decent dinner. I could not have done this cheaper on my own
even if I rented rather than bought the equipment.
The boxes were going into the floor of my unibody car, so I wanted them
MIGed in. A friend and I cut the holes in the floor and got everything
ready for welding, then took the car to a weldor and it took just a few
hours for him to MIG everything in place.
When it came time to weld up the polyethylene liners for the boxes (and
lids), I borrowed a hot air welder from the trade school and rented a
compressor from Home Depot (none of the local tool rental places had
plastic welding equipment). I practiced a bit, then got on with
sticking the bits together. It took me a *full* weekend, and the
results aren't pretty ;^> Fortunately, the liners aren't structural and
very few people will ever see them. It will, however, bug me, and so
there is a good chance that I will redo them in the future... and have
them welded by an experienced plastic weldor.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Hi,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You can weld everything you need to in a conversion project with a
120 volt MIG welder, and the cost is a fraction of the larger
"professional" 240 volt models.
I agree, a conversion is do-able with a 120-volt MIG welder.
I say this because Mark Farver, Chris Robison and I used Mark's 120-volt
(100 Amp?) Lincoln MIG welder to do almost all the welding on my Jeep
Cherokee conversion. The only exception was the motor "o-ring" mount,
which was welded by a friend with a 240-volt TIG welder. But everything
else we did with the little Lincoln. On the thicker metal it sometimes
did take a few passes to really get good penetration, but it worked. And
so far nothing has fallen out... nor do I expect anything to! :-P
About the time I was done with my Jeep conversion, I was able to buy a
welder. I got a 240-volt, 175-Amp Lincoln unit, which was like $590 at
Lowe's and came with all the accessories. I got a gas bottle and decent
auto-darkening mask for another $90 or so. Basically, this MIG welder is
excellent, and I'm very glad I chose a 240-volt MIG because it is easy
to use and can weld pretty much everything I need it to...
Just my 0.333 kWh (all the power I can get with my mere 2 cents!),
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
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Hi all, just a reminder that the 10th Anniversary REV!2005 show is coming up
quickly. It will be held again this year on June 11th at 1st and Ontario in
Vancouver BC.
Take a look at the show site http://www.veva.bc.ca/rev/2005/index.php
<http://www.veva.bc.ca/rev/2005/index.php> for all the details. There is
lots of parking and there will be some other events in conjunction this
year. It is the 100th anniversary of the electric tram that runs between
Granville Island and Science world as well. We again have some great raffle
prizes again this year.
Hope to see everyone who can make it. It is always a fun day. If you have
any particular questions you can always contact me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and I will do my best to answer them or pass them
on to someone who can.
Lawrence Harris
VEVA Newsletter Editor
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On 5/24/05, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Which fuel is "best"? Nobody knows! Nobody CAN know! So I encourage the
> creative use of *any* waste material to accomplish some useful purpose.
> To solve the energy crisis, we want as many different solutions as
> possible to be tried and developed. We can't predict the good and bad
> points for each, but experimentation will teach us.
Well said Lee!
I volunteer with Sustainable Communities Initiatives here in
Scotland, and we make Earthship buildings from old car tyres, and
teach "creative waste workshops" to kids, show them how to make toys
and useful things out of plastic bottles and other waste. If nothing
else, it creates a bit more awareness about how much stuff we throw
away. Whether it's a cheap power tool that's uneconomic to fix,
obsolete computer parts, or excessive packaging on food.
As for waste oil to run cars, personally I don't think it's a very
good idea. Simply filtering the oil is just not an option that your
engine will live with for very long. And by processing it into
biodiesel, whilst this makes a very good fuel, it takes a large amount
of energy, quite large quantities of "fresh" fossil fuel (methanol)
and other chemicals, and even then you are left with a problem waste.
Done on a large scale it might be more feasible, but there are
other uses for waste oil - and if you can't find anything else to use
it for locally, you could easily burn it in a modified water boiler
and eliminate the problems of making it work in an internal combustion
engine.
I'm happy with my battery EV fuelled with renewable solar and hydro
power, and my second car that runs on LPG, the components of which I
believe are still regarded as a waste at the moment.
> --
> The grabbing hand
> Grabs all it can
> Everything counts
> In large amounts
> -- Kurt Vonnegut
yes..
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I priced out veggie oil a couple years ago. You can buy it in 5 gallon drums at
your local Costco for around $2.25 a gallon. At the time, I thought it was too
high, but with what we're paying here in CA for Diesel....
Sorry to go OT, but this might be a good option for someone with a "less than
clean" diesel genset. I'd still run store-bought through the 10 micron filter,
but
I bet you could eliminate the "sock" prefilter (and it's a lot safer than
carrying
a can of gasoline in your trunk.) CNG is good too, at about 75 cents a gallon
here in SoCal.
Tim
-----------
> > From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 09:25:07 -0400
>
> > >This sums up the vegi oil grease mobile thing! Forgetabout it! the minute
> that grease suppliers find out that you are running all around town on their
> waste grease, they will charge you for it, or lock up their grease vats! Who
> wants to screw around with all the mess, processing the pumice out and all
> that? Just plugitin and go! We have the right idea all along. Getting our
> battery issues sorted out, and EV's manufactured, maybe the Koreans or
> Chinese will help us out. How bout the Russians, threy must hava lot of
> rocket scientists underemployed about now?
>
> Thanks for the heads up John. See all the reality stuff ya learn in one
> busy morning on the List?
>
> SeeYa at Power of DC
>
> Bob>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Great going guys!
I'm sending out press releases and including the "Electric Jr Dragster Build
Off" as part of the press release.
This is going to be an exciting event with lots to do for everyone.
Chip
Power of DC
http://www.powerofdc.com
On 5/24/05 12:52 PM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BadFishRacing)
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 15:14:18 +0000
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 2005 Power of DC June 11th
>
> Tim. Sounds like an impressive task. Should be a fun exercise. I guess a
> few things to prepare:
>
> Try to get the design worked out ahead of time, mechanical and electrical.
> This is where I spend a lot of my time.
>
> Try to get the vehicle mechanically sound. Like brakes, steering, all that
> non EV stuff. Maybe the drivetrain too, at least rear axle, jackshaft. Could
> do the motor mounts later.
>
> So come race day it's just:
>
> Build some battery racks.
> Mount the motor, controller, hardware.
> Wire up everything.
>
> That's essentially the entire EV package. At least for me, it's the
> mechanicals that take forever. The EV side is a piece of cake.
>
> Hopefully I can lend a hand as well.
>
> Although you can't get to the track, you can camp out in front of the gates
> Friday night and start work there?
>
>
> Good Luck.
>
> Darin Gilbert
> BadFishRacing
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It takes someone much bolder and venturesome than I to risk damaging
a Diesel engine by using fuel not intended for use in a Diesel engine.
How could I ever be sure that the oil doesn't contain ingredients or
additives or impurities detrimental to a Diesel engine?
I think we should continue to focus on electric vehicles.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Clevenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
I priced out veggie oil a couple years ago. You can buy it in 5 gallon
drums at
your local Costco for around $2.25 a gallon. At the time, I thought it
was too
high, but with what we're paying here in CA for Diesel....
Sorry to go OT, but this might be a good option for someone with a "less
than
clean" diesel genset. I'd still run store-bought through the 10 micron
filter, but
I bet you could eliminate the "sock" prefilter (and it's a lot safer than
carrying
a can of gasoline in your trunk.) CNG is good too, at about 75 cents a
gallon
here in SoCal.
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At 07:00 PM 24/05/05 -0700, Tom Shay wrote:
I think we should continue to focus on electric vehicles.
Well said. Please, people, this is an ELECTRIC vehicle discussion list, the
veggy oil discusion has gone on about long enough. It has been interesting,
but if it was a hybrid/EV discussion it would be relevant.
I have things I could say, as a friend has 60,000 kilometers on refined
recycled cooking oil, but I won't as it is not pertinant to the EV discussion.
James
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