EV Digest 4385
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: You need a welder
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: help....where can i find data about ev
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 120-volt Magnacharger (was Re: GFCI with PFC?)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Transmission stuff (+ ASCII art!)
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: OT : Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) 240 V Mangecharger port
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Renault leopard motor upgrade questions
by Tony McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Veggy oil (was TdS Report #56: Monte Carlo Rally: Just for Fun)
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Where is the best buy on ADC motors? back to topic..
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: OT : Veggy oil (Forgetaboutit!)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: Transmission stuff (+ ASCII art!)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 120-volt Magnacharger (was Re: GFCI with PFC?)
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Useful Things from Electronic Goldmine
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Transmission stuff (+ ASCII art!)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) more EV e-commerce...
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Veggy oil (was TdS Report #56: Monte Carlo Rally: Just for Fun)
by Chris Seeley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by James Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On May 24, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Nick Viera wrote:
Just my 0.333 kWh (all the power I can get with my mere 2 cents!),
I'm jealous! I can only get 0.233 kWh for my 2 cents :-)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:05 PM 24/05/05 +0200, you wrote:
Hi i'm Marco from Italy,
I'm studing ev but i have some matter about finding data!
Can you help me?
Where can i find data about Ac induction Motor squirrel cage? I need
power, weight, cost, torque, rpm, output.....
Thanks Marco
Hi Marco
Welcome to the Electric Vehicle Discussion List. There are over 1000 people
on this list from all over the world, ranging from beginners to very
experienced, and most are pleased to help where possible.
There are many manufacturers' of induction motors who have data on the web,
a search engine should turn up specifications.
More important, perhaps you should be looking at, and asking questions
about, electric vehicle motors and transmissions (gearboxes and
drive-lines). The types used and the advantages and disadvantages of the
different permutations and ways of setting up the systems.
Perhaps you could start by telling us what you are doing relative to
electric vehicles? Are you planning to build a vehicle? If so, what are
your intentions as regards to how far do you need it to travel, how fast,
how many passengers, cargo?
Here to help.
James (in Australia)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think those were the EV1 "Emergency Chargers".
Each EV1 had one straped down in the trunk, at
least there was one in the car I rented for a day.
On the bright side, there should be a thousand or so.
Hard to say what might have happened to them all?
L8r
Ryan
Lee Hart wrote:
Jim Coate wrote:
Were 120 volt Magnechargers actually made? If so, where can I get
me one?
Yes, there was a portable cord-connected model that plugged into a
normal 120vac wall receptacle, and had the paddle on the other end to
plug into the EV1. I don't know where you'd get one now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
As you (hopefully) remember, my Jeep has a remaining problem in the
drivetrain, causing a lot of heat/noise/poor range. I believe the
problem resides in my transmission, but am not 100% sure, as the problem
could instead be in my transfer case (or both :-0 ). Although I'll
probably end up buying a new transmission anyway, I'm curious to find
more definite signs of a problem in one unit or the other.
Before I get into some technical questions, I'm including an ASCII
drawing of my drivetrain so those of you who aren't familiar with a
typical Jeep 4x4 drivetrain can see what I'm talking about. Here is the
basic layout of my drivetrain but without the motor drawn on front of
transmission (use a fixed-width font):
Differential
(off-set)
___________________________
_|_____|___________|=|=|___ <-- Front Axle
\|||/ \___/ <-- Axle Shaft Disconnect
| \__||__/ (Disengaged in 2wd)
| | | (Engaged in 4x4 Hi/Lo)
Front | | |
D.S | | | <-- Transmission
| | |
| |_ _|
| |____|
_/|\____/_||_\__
| |
|________________| <-- Transfer-Case
\|/
|
|
| <-- Rear Drive Shaft
|
|
|
|
___________/|||\___________
__________|_____|__________ Rear Axle
Differential
One thing I've tried doing is lifting the rear end off the ground and
turning the tires by hand to see how hard it is to turn the drivetrain
with the transmission and transfer-case in gear vs. in neutral. All the
following was noted with the clutch pedal _pressed_to_the_floor and the
transmission kept in 4th Gear (1:1 ratio).
I first spun the tires with the transfer-case in gear (2wd). In this
position, the front driveshaft is disconnected and does _not_ spin. So I
was just spinning the rear axle shaft, rear driveshaft, t-case and
transmission shafts. I noted how much force it took to spin (seemed like
too much).
Then, I had my brother shift the T-case into neutral (transmission still
in 4th). For some reason, the T-case makes both driveshafts spin
together in neutral (probably just internal friction?). So by spinning
the tire, I was now spinning the rear axle shaft, front _and_ rear
driveshafts, front differential pinion (and thus half of the front axle
shaft), and the t-case shaft. Because I've now got more parts spinning
(namely both heavy driveshafts), I'd expected it to be noticeably harder
to spin the tires by hand with the t-case in neutral. But I instead
discovered that it was noticeably _easier_ to spin all that added mass
in parts than to spin the transmission shaft by putting the t-case in gear.
So is it right to interpret this as my transmission is for some reason
or another dragging excessively internally (bad bearing(s))? Or does
this test indicate nothing? Or ?
At any rate, I'm still trying to find a good place to buy a new
transmission from. I'm looking for a Peugeot BA-10/5 , which was only
used in 1987.5-1989 model year Jeeps, so isn't terribly common.
Drivetrain.com sells them and offers a core refund; so far they're the
ones I'm considering buying from. Suggestions?
Thanks, and sorry this post got so long...
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
to return this back on topic. I have an 87 Ford f350
that I have been running B100 in. It has been running
better and cleaner than it ever did on diesel.
however, I am planning on converting it to electric.
I'm buying that big 120kw Indramat drive system that
was on ebay for it. I rarely ever drive more than 20
miles so the electric should do the trick nicely.
Gadget
--- James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 07:00 PM 24/05/05 -0700, Tom Shay wrote:
>
> >I think we should continue to focus on electric
> vehicles.
>
>
> Well said. Please, people, this is an ELECTRIC
> vehicle discussion list, the
> veggy oil discusion has gone on about long enough.
> It has been interesting,
> but if it was a hybrid/EV discussion it would be
> relevant.
>
> I have things I could say, as a friend has 60,000
> kilometers on refined
> recycled cooking oil, but I won't as it is not
> pertinant to the EV discussion.
>
>
> James
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here in Tucson there are a couple 240 V Mangechargers, where can I get the
induction port for the paddle?
Thanks
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just want to get to work and back in my EV :-) I have plenty of
other hobbies that border on crazy, so I think I'm OK. I play bluegrass
Banjo and I'm "royalty" in a medieval recreationist group where I shoot
at people with a tennis ball firing crossbow....
How's that?
Tony
"Welcome to the dawn of a new error"
http://www.notebene.net/philosophy.html
Tim Humphrey wrote:
Something doesn't seem right.......
You live in a suburb of Portland and have a somewhat light car. But, your not
over-powering it with twin eights,
lightning-bolt batteries and a Z2K, and it doesn't have an absolute eardrum
killer sound system......that's borderline
blasphemy.
Just kidding Tony, I commend you on the upgrades and progress you have made!!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If gas were six dollars a gallon here, wouldn't you be doing it too? (gr)
I charge my EVs with solar panels. Haven't paid any fuel/road use tax in two
years. Do I feel bad about that? I'm just all broken up deep down inside.
What I'm doing is just as legal as guys like Rupert Murdoch getting a tax
refund while posting profits of hundreds of millions.
But in CA they're already talking about putting GPS in cars to figure
mileage for road tax purposes because hybrids don't burn "enough" fuel to
maintain the present tax base, lending credence to the old saying: "No good
deed goes unpunished".
And if they have to change the tax methodology because we're not burning
"enough" gas? Woohoo! That's a good thing! And it only serves to help
further our nefarious and subversive electromotive agenda....:^0
Marv
Culver City
"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think
things out for himself, without regard to the prevailing superstitions and
taboos. Almost invariably, he comes to the conclusion that the government he
lives under is dishonest, insane, and intolerable, and so, if he is a
romantic, he tries to change it. And if he is not romantic personally, he is
apt to spread discontent among those who are."
-H.L. Mencken
> From: Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:12:08 -0700 (PDT)
> To: EVList <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Veggy oil (was TdS Report #56: Monte Carlo Rally: Just for Fun)
>
> --- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> I think anything you can do to burn less petroleum can't be called "lunacy".
>> In England they're treating VO burners like criminals- writing tickets,
>> impounding cars, etc. Anytime the government comes after you for a
>> victimless crime, it's time to wonder why...
>>
>
> I heard that they were doing this for tax reasons. If you are not buying taxed
> fuel you are a tax
> evader.
>
> Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Getting back to my original topic, I have now looked at the Netgain motor
and am pretty impressed with it. So who will give a good cash price (no
credit card) and possiblity to pick up in Midwest area? I don't mind
paying a reasonable markup, but it does scare me when people are posting
messages about 100% markup, especially on motors that are over $1000. I
emailed a Netgain dealer in Iowa, but got no answer back on my inquiry.
Also, believe it or not, you can get a WHOLE car engine shipped for around
$100, so I don't know what is up with some of the shipping costs I am
seeing.
I expect to have my Saab next month and want to get started on the project.
I will be needing a 9" with a dual shaft.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:09 AM
Subject: Re: Where is the best buy on ADC motors? (e-commerce rant)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Otmar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: Where is the best buy on ADC motors? (e-commerce rant)
At 2:31 AM -0400 5-23-05, Neon John wrote:
>This ain't brain surgery. It doesn't take millions to set up an
>e-commerce site.
At 9:16 PM -0700 5-22-05, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>But nice website that is up to date and informative is NOT expensive nor
>terribly diffacult.
>Even if you aren't setup to handle credit cards, you can use something
>like Paypal to handle the credit card transaction and you'll recieve all
>your orders via email.
Hi All;
I agree with Otmar! Pay Pal is a pain in the ass to work with. As a
Netgain Motor guy now, dealer/agent, been for awile. But didn't want to
gloat about it on the List. I have sold a few motors, one by Pay Pal, and
they give you a hard time collecting over 500 in a month! Took TWO months
to
collect for a 8 incher I sold. Phooey!They wanted me to get one of their
credit cards, and other crap to collect the cash. I don't wanna get that
involved! I'm not too confortable that they have E access to my Bank
account, like a personnal relationship, it's a hellova lot harder to get
OUT
of than to get IN to!!I'm happy with checks, thet have, the banks have
joined the 20th century, checks will clear in mere days, now! As Otmar
pointed out, the Credit Card folks rip off bizes Big Time! I never
realized
that from the Biz guy's end! I feel as an Agent to have a few of the
Product
in STOCK, I have one 9 incher lerking in the garage ready for adoption.
Will
restock this summer when I get some of my other finantial stuff sorted
out.
Lead time can be RIGHT Now! to several weaks, depending on Warfield's
production timing.Am thinking of the new 8-9 incher, smaller than the
stock
9 but as strong.Damn things are HEAVY ya hafta ship truck,or better yet
TRUNK! no UPS Sigh!The 18 wheeler they shipped it to me couldn't even GET
in my driveway! I gotta set something up with a local biz in town who has
a
shipping dock! A convenient drive from East point areas to pick up and
adopt
your new motor.I take ya out to lunch in a working EV to see how nicely
the
motor can work, Bla Bla Bla! Be coming down to Power of DC, could deliver
a
9 incher to anybody that needs one.
Sorry, got off the Deep end selling stuff, not really the List's
purpose
I can't speak for the other vendors, but I for one don't really like
giving 30% of my profits to a credit card company. Then to add insult
to injury I have to carry the liability for a "chargeback" if the
card was stolen or fraudulently used. This could happen months after
I shipped the product out. The credit card companies do a lot to
protect the consumer, but they do most of it by passing costs to the
vendor.
Yeah! They have PLENTY of money at the hidious interest rates they can
charge!I never knew this!
Here I am trying to make a living, while doing my best to make high
quality parts available for a good cause. Doing this I just can't see
supporting the credit card companies to the tune of 3% of my gross
sales. What a racket they have! (yes, I know, If I had high volumes
and/or had the card here to swipe, the cost would only be 1.7%, but
it seems they consider internet sales high risk)
Maybe they don't get their "Cut" on On line stuff?
At one time I thought I would just pay the fees, and tried out Paypal
since it seemed pretty easy. I found there's a problem with them that
they have a whole lot more hoops to jump through for the customer
when the charge goes over $2000. (which many of mine do) In addition
they put various kinds of liability limits on overseas transactions.
Maybe it's my dislike for bureaucracy, but every time I look into the
credit card thing I feel very cheated and frustrated. They do thinks
like write on your contract that you are not allowed to discount the
price for non credit card transactions, this because they want a
monopoly on the business. Financially there is no doubt that are
making lots of money off of us.
They can go to hell, as far as we are concerned!
In the end I figure people can send me a check and wait for it to
clear. After 14 years in the business it's not likely I'll be running
off with their money, and I haven't been able to get my delivery lead
times for a controller under 3 weeks in years.
As for keeping up my website: Guilty as charged, it's hard to
navigate and I've been planning a upgrade for over a year. Last time
it took a few days solid work to revamp it, I expect the same again.
At least I do keep the price and availability page pretty current,
even if it is hard to find...
Howthehell do you find TIME to fix up your website? Happy to say, see
that you, like Madman, are too damn busy making the Product we all love
and
know so well.We Listers know where you are and happily come to you!<g>!
Guyz
that have the balls to DO things in our "Industry" I include Jerry Dycus
here, too, on the Freedom EV. Progress is being made on the bodies
etc.Molds
are goin' to the boatbuilder, etc.
Another thought. Silly? Yeah?Maybe there are computer geek guyz on here
that ENJOY doing websites that would "Volunteer" to upgrade EV biz guys
websites, for fun and being part of the EV "Cause" I would if I were a
computer geek. Hell, I hava' nuff trouble doing my basic E mail and
surfing
stuff!Gotta schlepp it out to a computer place to get it deloused now and
again. Like most motorists I want to turn the key and it happens.Gigabytes
SMIGabytes! just wanna download my mail, add comments etc.
OK Ha Ha! Off topic a bit. Anybody want a BOAT? My kid bought a place
with an abandoned boat, 32 foot Trojan Brand twin screw fiberglas cruiser.
Maybe it could be converted to electric, as the engines are out lying on
the
ground. Can't EVen GIVE it away! Can't legally burn it, take it to the
Dump.
Noooo! A minumental disposal problem!! I have thought of hauling it down
to
the sea towing it out in Long Island sound, finding a charted deep spot
and
sinking it.Fish would love it but I'm SURE there are laws about sinking
things? Old NYC subway car bodies are being dumped at sea for fish
condoes,
nowadaze. They save the trucks and motors, though.Ran it on Free Cycle New
Haven for MONTHS! But ya never know? EVers are a diverse lot<g>!I thought
of
a good name for it " Fuelish Pleasure"Too bad it isn't a displacement
hull.
Guy up here in Cobalt CT builds beautiful Fiberglass electric launches.A
joy
to see and sail, Fantail style hull, like a miniture Mauritania or
Aquetania, had a ride, like sailing, except you hafta listen to everybody
ELSES' racket! Many hyspeed boats have NO mufflers, you would be arrested
if
your CAR was that noisy!
Ok my two watts worth.
Seeya at Power of DC
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 5/24/2005 7:46:10 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Well said. Please, people, this is an ELECTRIC vehicle discussion list,
the
veggy oil discusion has gone on about long enough. It has been interesting,
but if it was a hybrid/EV discussion it would be relevant.
>>
I have a hybrid ev.
It is an Audi 5000 with 13 12v batteries, raptor, 9" with a 3 cylinder 18 hp
diesel genset in the trunk.
I have run the motor on biodiesel and various veg oil mixes.
I have done alot of testing on this motor, the motor in my Isuzu diesel truck
and a 4 hp petter (on a small dyno)
So far I see nothing wrong with running filtered used veg oil; lower
emissions, lower operating temps and better economy with slightly less
horsepower. I
look forward to getting enough hours on one of them to warrant a teardown and
inspection.
Now, if only there were a Tour De Sol type event on the west coast.....
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes. This seems to indicate the transmission is at fault.
Another test to put the transmission in neutral and see how much easier it
gets.
If it gets a lot easier with the clutch out, then the problem is in the
input bearing, cluster gear or clutch.
If the effort is the same with the clutch out, then the problem is with the
output shaft or shift rings.
You could use a bending beam torque wrench to measure the torque necessary
to turn the gears. That way you have numbers to compare.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:08 PM
Subject: Transmission stuff (+ ASCII art!)
> I first spun the tires with the transfer-case in gear (2wd). In this
> position, the front driveshaft is disconnected and does _not_ spin. So I
> was just spinning the rear axle shaft, rear driveshaft, t-case and
> transmission shafts. I noted how much force it took to spin (seemed like
> too much).
>
> Then, I had my brother shift the T-case into neutral (transmission still
> in 4th). For some reason, the T-case makes both driveshafts spin
> together in neutral (probably just internal friction?). So by spinning
> the tire, I was now spinning the rear axle shaft, front _and_ rear
> driveshafts, front differential pinion (and thus half of the front axle
> shaft), and the t-case shaft. Because I've now got more parts spinning
> (namely both heavy driveshafts), I'd expected it to be noticeably harder
> to spin the tires by hand with the t-case in neutral. But I instead
> discovered that it was noticeably _easier_ to spin all that added mass
> in parts than to spin the transmission shaft by putting the t-case in
gear.
>
> So is it right to interpret this as my transmission is for some reason
> or another dragging excessively internally (bad bearing(s))? Or does
> this test indicate nothing? Or ?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all
The 120 volt Magnechargers were only used in the lead acid EV1s and were
stored in the trunk for occasional use.
The NiMH gen2 cars used too much energy when charging because
of the use of AC to cool the batteries.
The 120 volt chargers show up on ebay once in a while.
Geroge S.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just thought I'd mention a few useful items that Electronic Goldmine has
right now:
G14639 25A DC Current Meter (analog) with internal shunt, $2.99
G15296 50A Anderson connectors, $2.49
G14960 12VDC, 120mm, fans, case of 18, $24.99
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
> As you (hopefully) remember, my Jeep has a remaining problem in the
> drive train, causing a lot of heat/noise/poor range. I believe the
> problem resides in my transmission, but am not 100% sure, as the problem
> could instead be in my transfer case (or both :-0 ). Although I'll
> probably end up buying a new transmission anyway,
Just wondering, but do you ever use the "4 wheel drive" feature? Is
having the working 4 wheel drive setup important to you?
If it's not.. Pick any transmission you want and ditch the transfer
case and front drive shaft. Might or might not need a different
length rear drive shaft(depends on which trans is used), could get a
lightweight alum shaft built anyways..
Would be a whole lot less weight and rotating mass. What's the best
transmission ever made that will bolt up to that bell housing or motor
adapter?
When you drop that trans down, go to Harbor Freight and pick up some
sort of transmission jack or adapter for your current floor jack if
you don't already have one.
Type the keyword transmission in their search box to see the various options.
Maybe this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=507
Or this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39178
The more expensive option:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3185
> One thing I've tried doing is lifting the rear end off the ground and
> turning the tires by hand to see how hard it is to turn the drive train
> with the transmission and transfer-case in gear vs. in neutral.
Do you have locker type differentials in the front and rear(just wondering)?
> I first spun the tires with the transfer-case in gear (2wd). In this
> position, the front drive shaft is disconnected and does _not_ spin. So I
> was just spinning the rear axle shaft, rear drive shaft, t-case and
> transmission shafts. I noted how much force it took to spin (seemed like
> too much).
Something I would do; some here might frown on this idea. If you do
it, have the vehicle aimed towards the street and not towards the
house. Put two jack stands under each axle. Have the tires be at
least 2" off the ground. Maybe even 3" or 4" because they will grow
in size with no weight on them and them spinning..
Now you can apply power to all the gears and transfer case settings
and not have all the wind and tire noise and be able to hear any
abnormal noises. Keep the mph very low and very reasonable. Try 5,
10, 15. If it doesn't feel dangerous, might try 20. Be aware of
gyroscopic and momentum type forces and effects.
You might even apply the brakes when you give it some throttle so you
can put a load on the various transmission and transfer case
combinations. That would be a good idea.
You could also drain the fluids out of both the trans and transfer
case and take note of the condition of the fluid, how much, and if
there are metal shavings or particles in it.
The ~8" square base of the 3 ton jack stands isn't very much...
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38846
Any chance you have the 6 ton stands with the 10" base?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=38847
Don't try it if you don't feel comfortable and confident about it, or
if you don't feel it's safe or if you don't have 4 large base jack
stands.
Let me know what you find out.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
I've sort of been wishing this e-commerce thread would go away - but it
really does apply. For most of us, the transfer of money is one of the
biggest issues on the mind.
I'm the type of person that will avoid a site if I can't pay simply and
quickly. I agree with Otmar though - the credit card system is a pain.
I've looked in to a full-blown credit card merchant account for EV
Source. When it all boils down, I've been very happy with Paypal. I'm
surprised at all the criticism it has taken in these threads. I have
not had one serious problem receiving payments, and haven't had any
spoken complaints from customers. Sure, I barked some complaint when I
had to "verify" my account to send large sums of money - but after going
through the hoops, I can make payments by just entering an e-mail
address and password - what can be easier than that!? And if someone
doesn't want to mess with Paypal, they can just send a check - which
will take about as long as verifying thier account.
I think it's good that this e-commerce stuff has all been discussed.
Hopefully all the EV retailers have been taking notes and we can try to
improve the situation for EVeryone involved.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The topics of conversion over the last few days have got me back to
thinking about conversion kits again. At shows over the last few years
I have had a dozen or so "checkbook in hand" offers to convert a
vehicle. These people wanted an EV, but were unable to build a "custom"
conversion (a large percentage were women, interesting enough). I had
to turn them down, since the several hundred hours of time to "custom"
convert a vehicle was beyond their budget or patience.
Most of these potential drivers were just interested in having an EV,
and often even made offers to purchase whatever I was showing. I've
lost track of the number of "handy" people who have been interested, but
lacked the metal fabrication and design skills to do a full conversion.
There are a lot of reason why the Volts/Rabbit/Porsche and S10 kits are
pretty much all we have. Cars come in much greater varieties today, and
manufacturers often make radical changes from year to year. Buying a
car to remove and essentially discard a bunch of stuff is never going to
be too cost effective.
Still, I remember the fun of assembling kits, or doing "bolt on" mods to
my car. I know doing custom welding and design are more challenging and
I should feel proud of "doing it all" when making a good conversion. In
the end, I think I've generally received more enjoyment out of the "bolt
in" stuff. Sure it's easier, but it looks good when done, and the job
finishes quicker and I have a lot less frustrating "do it over" and "I
should have done it X" moments. Most people you show the car to do not
really appreciate the extra skill and effort it took to do it from scratch.
Anyhow I think my next conversion will be the basis for a kit. The goal
will be a minimal drilling and cutting, bolt in, snap together wiring,
type kit, that can be installed by someone with average auto repair
skills. My standards for a conversion are not quite John Wayland "show"
quality, but I come fairly close. The kit will use standard conversion
components where possible, with mounting adapters and custom harnesses
wherever need to simplify installation.
So ignoring all the reasons why this will not work, excessive cost, or
is just plain a dumb idea:
------
From this year's new car models what would you most want as a new EV?
------
I have been looking to the economy end of the spectrum for the first
kit. Something with four doors, a low new cost, lightweight with
enough space for hardware and people. The compact trucks are always a
good choice, but most of manufacturer's do not offer anything more than
two seats in the less than $17k range. (On the plus side the truck
platforms usually undergo slower changes than cars, and are usually are
easier to convert) A truck kit would probably be a future project.
Obviously trying to select one car as "perfect" will be nearly
impossible but I'm looking for a good compromise choice to get going.
My first pick is the Mazda 3, it is fairly roomy for a small car and is
built in conjunction with Volvo atop an excellent platform. Available
in an economy sedan trim for about $14k MSRP and power trim sedan and
wagon versions for about $17k. A/C and electro hydraulic power steering
are standard in the economy trim (unlike the Honda Civic), as are few
neat features like power adjustable pedals. Fuel economy is near the
top of its class, only lagging behind the hybrids and diesels. Most
auto reviews place it in the top of economy car class for handling,
features and build quality.
Parts availability is moderate, Mazda has been sharing a lot of parts
with Ford since their partnership. Mazda is not a struggling company
per se, but they do have one of the lowest sales volumes in the US, and
hence good incentives (0% financing, rebates, and an easy to get into
fleet purchase program). The Mazda 3 is about 1 year old, long enough
to work out the bugs, young enough there should be no major changes to
the platform for a few years. (The dealer said they have only been told
that the AC system will change to a R-134 alternative next year.)
Other contenders might be the radical looking but spacious Scion xB and
xA, the high resale value Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla or from the
American's the Chevy Aveo or Ford Focus.
So let me know your thoughts and feel free to mail me privately if you'd
like.
Thanks,
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I remember back in Feb. or March, they were talking about eliminating
the tax per gallon, and instituting a tax per mile!
I wonder how they will manage that one, the hole privacy thing comes
into play there!!!
Best
Chris Seeley
www.seeleydesign.com
On 5/24/05, Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 10:12:08AM -0700, Dave Cover wrote:
> > --- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I think anything you can do to burn less petroleum can't be called
> > > "lunacy".
> > > In England they're treating VO burners like criminals- writing tickets,
> > > impounding cars, etc. Anytime the government comes after you for a
> > > victimless crime, it's time to wonder why...
> > >
> >
> > I heard that they were doing this for tax reasons. If you are not buying
> > taxed fuel you are a tax
> > evader.
>
> Don't we do that in the states as well?
>
> I seem to recall stories of people being charged extra for driving hybrids.
> Seems crazy.
>
> Has anybody been charged for driving an EV?
>
> Thanks!
>
> >
> > Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've always thought that a PT Cruiser would be fun to
convert. the floor is so thick that it looks like you
could fit a pack of hawkers or sonnenscheins(a
subsidiary or Exide) under the floor. The car should
have more pep than the original....
Gadget
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The topics of conversion over the last few days have
> got me back to
> thinking about conversion kits again. At shows
> over the last few years
> I have had a dozen or so "checkbook in hand" offers
> to convert a
> vehicle. These people wanted an EV, but were unable
> to build a "custom"
> conversion (a large percentage were women,
> interesting enough). I had
> to turn them down, since the several hundred hours
> of time to "custom"
> convert a vehicle was beyond their budget or
> patience.
>
> Most of these potential drivers were just interested
> in having an EV,
> and often even made offers to purchase whatever I
> was showing. I've
> lost track of the number of "handy" people who have
> been interested, but
> lacked the metal fabrication and design skills to do
> a full conversion.
>
> There are a lot of reason why the
> Volts/Rabbit/Porsche and S10 kits are
> pretty much all we have. Cars come in much greater
> varieties today, and
> manufacturers often make radical changes from year
> to year. Buying a
> car to remove and essentially discard a bunch of
> stuff is never going to
> be too cost effective.
>
> Still, I remember the fun of assembling kits, or
> doing "bolt on" mods to
> my car. I know doing custom welding and design are
> more challenging and
> I should feel proud of "doing it all" when making a
> good conversion. In
> the end, I think I've generally received more
> enjoyment out of the "bolt
> in" stuff. Sure it's easier, but it looks good when
> done, and the job
> finishes quicker and I have a lot less frustrating
> "do it over" and "I
> should have done it X" moments. Most people you
> show the car to do not
> really appreciate the extra skill and effort it took
> to do it from scratch.
>
> Anyhow I think my next conversion will be the basis
> for a kit. The goal
> will be a minimal drilling and cutting, bolt in,
> snap together wiring,
> type kit, that can be installed by someone with
> average auto repair
> skills. My standards for a conversion are not quite
> John Wayland "show"
> quality, but I come fairly close. The kit will use
> standard conversion
> components where possible, with mounting adapters
> and custom harnesses
> wherever need to simplify installation.
>
> So ignoring all the reasons why this will not work,
> excessive cost, or
> is just plain a dumb idea:
> ------
> From this year's new car models what would you most
> want as a new EV?
> ------
>
> I have been looking to the economy end of the
> spectrum for the first
> kit. Something with four doors, a low new cost,
> lightweight with
> enough space for hardware and people. The compact
> trucks are always a
> good choice, but most of manufacturer's do not offer
> anything more than
> two seats in the less than $17k range. (On the plus
> side the truck
> platforms usually undergo slower changes than cars,
> and are usually are
> easier to convert) A truck kit would probably be a
> future project.
>
> Obviously trying to select one car as "perfect" will
> be nearly
> impossible but I'm looking for a good compromise
> choice to get going.
>
> My first pick is the Mazda 3, it is fairly roomy for
> a small car and is
> built in conjunction with Volvo atop an excellent
> platform. Available
> in an economy sedan trim for about $14k MSRP and
> power trim sedan and
> wagon versions for about $17k. A/C and electro
> hydraulic power steering
> are standard in the economy trim (unlike the Honda
> Civic), as are few
> neat features like power adjustable pedals. Fuel
> economy is near the
> top of its class, only lagging behind the hybrids
> and diesels. Most
> auto reviews place it in the top of economy car
> class for handling,
> features and build quality.
>
> Parts availability is moderate, Mazda has been
> sharing a lot of parts
> with Ford since their partnership. Mazda is not a
> struggling company
> per se, but they do have one of the lowest sales
> volumes in the US, and
> hence good incentives (0% financing, rebates, and an
> easy to get into
> fleet purchase program). The Mazda 3 is about 1
> year old, long enough
> to work out the bugs, young enough there should be
> no major changes to
> the platform for a few years. (The dealer said they
> have only been told
> that the AC system will change to a R-134
> alternative next year.)
>
> Other contenders might be the radical looking but
> spacious Scion xB and
> xA, the high resale value Honda Civic, Toyota
> Corolla or from the
> American's the Chevy Aveo or Ford Focus.
>
> So let me know your thoughts and feel free to mail
> me privately if you'd
> like.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Farver
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've been eyeing them for sometime and totaly agree I think an EV PT would be
smokin'! I think the 1st gen PT and Neon have the same transmission so a kit
could be made for both, not positive. There are alot of 95-97 Neon's
with blow
heads all over Southern Ontario.
James
Quoting Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
I've always thought that a PT Cruiser would be fun to
convert. the floor is so thick that it looks like you
could fit a pack of hawkers or sonnenscheins(a
subsidiary or Exide) under the floor. The car should
have more pep than the original....
Gadget
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and All,
Looking around for car bodies to take a
mold, parts from I ran across the Kia Spectra? that
was good looking, aero, light and low cost, around 10K
that might be a good base for an EV.
Adding some accents, aero mods would make it
look different enough you could call it your own.
As a smaller company they may even be
willing to sell you gliders at an even better price or
at least give you a good discount.
The Aveo is another in the same price, aero,
weight catagory but could use some help in the looks
department.
Hopefully you can sell the ICE stuff to
lower your costs some.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
--- Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The topics of conversion over the last few days have
> got me back to
> thinking about conversion kits again. At shows
> over the last few years
> I have had a dozen or so "checkbook in hand" offers
> to convert a
> vehicle. These people wanted an EV, but were unable
> to build a "custom"
> conversion (a large percentage were women,
> interesting enough). I had
> to turn them down, since the several hundred hours
> of time to "custom"
> convert a vehicle was beyond their budget or
> patience.
>
> Most of these potential drivers were just interested
> in having an EV,
> and often even made offers to purchase whatever I
> was showing. I've
> lost track of the number of "handy" people who have
> been interested, but
> lacked the metal fabrication and design skills to do
> a full conversion.
>
> There are a lot of reason why the
> Volts/Rabbit/Porsche and S10 kits are
> pretty much all we have. Cars come in much greater
> varieties today, and
> manufacturers often make radical changes from year
> to year. Buying a
> car to remove and essentially discard a bunch of
> stuff is never going to
> be too cost effective.
>
> Still, I remember the fun of assembling kits, or
> doing "bolt on" mods to
> my car. I know doing custom welding and design are
> more challenging and
> I should feel proud of "doing it all" when making a
> good conversion. In
> the end, I think I've generally received more
> enjoyment out of the "bolt
> in" stuff. Sure it's easier, but it looks good when
> done, and the job
> finishes quicker and I have a lot less frustrating
> "do it over" and "I
> should have done it X" moments. Most people you
> show the car to do not
> really appreciate the extra skill and effort it took
> to do it from scratch.
>
> Anyhow I think my next conversion will be the basis
> for a kit. The goal
> will be a minimal drilling and cutting, bolt in,
> snap together wiring,
> type kit, that can be installed by someone with
> average auto repair
> skills. My standards for a conversion are not quite
> John Wayland "show"
> quality, but I come fairly close. The kit will use
> standard conversion
> components where possible, with mounting adapters
> and custom harnesses
> wherever need to simplify installation.
>
> So ignoring all the reasons why this will not work,
> excessive cost, or
> is just plain a dumb idea:
> ------
> From this year's new car models what would you most
> want as a new EV?
> ------
>
> I have been looking to the economy end of the
> spectrum for the first
> kit. Something with four doors, a low new cost,
> lightweight with
> enough space for hardware and people. The compact
> trucks are always a
> good choice, but most of manufacturer's do not offer
> anything more than
> two seats in the less than $17k range. (On the plus
> side the truck
> platforms usually undergo slower changes than cars,
> and are usually are
> easier to convert) A truck kit would probably be a
> future project.
>
> Obviously trying to select one car as "perfect" will
> be nearly
> impossible but I'm looking for a good compromise
> choice to get going.
>
> My first pick is the Mazda 3, it is fairly roomy for
> a small car and is
> built in conjunction with Volvo atop an excellent
> platform. Available
> in an economy sedan trim for about $14k MSRP and
> power trim sedan and
> wagon versions for about $17k. A/C and electro
> hydraulic power steering
> are standard in the economy trim (unlike the Honda
> Civic), as are few
> neat features like power adjustable pedals. Fuel
> economy is near the
> top of its class, only lagging behind the hybrids
> and diesels. Most
> auto reviews place it in the top of economy car
> class for handling,
> features and build quality.
>
> Parts availability is moderate, Mazda has been
> sharing a lot of parts
> with Ford since their partnership. Mazda is not a
> struggling company
> per se, but they do have one of the lowest sales
> volumes in the US, and
> hence good incentives (0% financing, rebates, and an
> easy to get into
> fleet purchase program). The Mazda 3 is about 1
> year old, long enough
> to work out the bugs, young enough there should be
> no major changes to
> the platform for a few years. (The dealer said they
> have only been told
> that the AC system will change to a R-134
> alternative next year.)
>
> Other contenders might be the radical looking but
> spacious Scion xB and
> xA, the high resale value Honda Civic, Toyota
> Corolla or from the
> American's the Chevy Aveo or Ford Focus.
>
> So let me know your thoughts and feel free to mail
> me privately if you'd
> like.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Farver
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
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--- End Message ---
